Podcast Summary: Intelligence Squared – The Courage to Lead, with Sanna Marin, Former Prime Minister of Finland (Part One)

Date: December 5, 2025
Host: Kavita Puri
Guest: Sanna Marin, former Prime Minister of Finland
Producer: Mia Sorrenti
Location: Emmanuel Centre, London

Episode Overview

This episode features a live conversation with Sanna Marin, who became the world’s youngest prime minister in 2019 and led Finland through two of the 21st century’s major crises: the COVID-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Marin shares insights from her new memoir "Hope in Action," reflecting on her extraordinary personal and political journey. The themes of leadership courage, gender, societal equality, and navigating crisis form the heart of the discussion.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Becoming Prime Minister by Surprise (05:02–07:58)

• Unexpected Rise: Marin recounts her shock at being chosen as PM at age 34, emphasizing it was never her plan.

  • Quote: "Do I really have to do this now? ...those are also the moments where you have to jump and think to yourself that if somebody else can do this, maybe I can too." – Sanna Marin (06:25)

• Leadership Under Pressure: Took leadership after her party’s leader fell ill before crucial elections.

  • She vividly describes balancing fear and duty when stepping up during a politically uncertain time.

2. Finland’s Historic Female Leadership (07:59–09:44)

• Groundbreaking Gender Equality: Explains Finland’s government was led entirely by women, with four under 40.

  • Quote: “All women in charge of our parties, and four of us were under 40...three of us had children while in office. That tells you something about Finland.” – Sanna Marin (08:20)

• Sexist Backlash: Despite this progress, she faced misogyny and belittling in the media ("lipstick government").

  • Quote: "The amount of different kind of like violent, sexualized content... is so vast that I just dropped count ages ago." – Sanna Marin (10:24)
  • She observes that sexism persists, even in places with deep traditions of gender equality like Finland.

3. Personal and Political Roots (11:29–16:47)

• First Political Spark: Sanna recalls, as a child, protesting the destruction of her local forest.

  • Quote: “We were maybe five to seven girls...we will go to the road next to the school and the forest and then we will sing our national anthem, held Finnish flag high. And of course there were nobody seeing this, so it was just us, like nine year old girls singing the national anthem, nobody else watching. But we thought that we did something.” – Sanna Marin (12:31)

• Resilience in Defeat: Though ultimately unsuccessful, her school community replanted the forest, teaching her about making good from loss.

• Challenging Upbringing: Marin details growing up in poverty, with a single mother and later in a "rainbow family." Society did not recognize her family’s structure at the time.

  • Quote: “I come from a really poor family ...raised in a rainbow family. So really poor background...that wasn't recognized...as a normal, proper family.” – Sanna Marin (14:21)
  • She links her passion for equality and welfare to her childhood experiences.

• Gratitude for the Welfare State: Sanna credits the Nordic model for affording her social mobility.

4. Early Political Career and Insider Realities (16:48–18:57)

• Feeling Like an Outsider: She describes being idealistic but at times overwhelmed in Parliament.
• Learning Political Realities: Appreciates learning about “the political dirty game,” which proved valuable in building coalitions as PM, especially during crises.

5. Diplomatic Encounters: Meeting President Trump (18:58–20:45)

• Unexpectedly Positive Meeting: As Minister for Transport and Communications, she met with President Trump at the White House.
  • Quote: "The meeting went much better than I anticipated, and we had good discussions." – Sanna Marin (19:22)
  • Adds that Finland later secured a major icebreaker deal with the US, emphasizing Finland’s expertise.

6. Leading Through the COVID-19 Pandemic (23:14–28:58)

• Early Recognition: Marin describes how Finland’s isolation provided crucial time to act as COVID spread in Europe.

• Swift Lockdown: Finland used Emergency Powers for the first time since WWII to protect public health.

  • Quote: “We just shut down everything...I think it was the right thing to do to put people’s lives and well-being, their health, in the center of our decisions because that also protected our economy.” – Sanna Marin (24:38)

• Social Cohesion and Trust: She attributes smooth crisis management to Finland's high level of societal trust and volunteerism.

  • Quote: "We share this idea that we are all in it together. And everybody wanted to protect each other and especially the most vulnerable." – Sanna Marin (27:06)

• The Toll of Leadership: Despite focus and determination, she endured physical stress, including temporary blindness.

  • Quote: “At some point later on I actually lost my vision for one day. I couldn’t ...see her face or see any text or anything.” – Sanna Marin (28:36)

7. Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine: Crisis and Response (29:07–36:08)

• Immediate Realization: The invasion’s first morning made clear the threat for Finland, given its long border with Russia.

  • Quote: "I realized straight away that that will also mean something for Finland, because we share that long border...over 1300 kilometers with Russia." – Sanna Marin (30:25)

• Rapid Shift to NATO: Marin reveals she supported NATO entry straight away, despite prior public and political opposition.

  • Quote: “I had become also a supporter of the idea of Finland joining NATO before this situation. But I thought it will take five to ten years...when the war started...Finnish people in general shifted their way of thinking straight away.” – Sanna Marin (32:05)

• Historical Membership Process: The process was quick, inclusive, and coordinated closely with Sweden.

• Managing Russian Response: During the NATO process, Finland braced for possible Russian aggression, but the official reaction was largely dismissive.

  • Quote: “Russia is not a country and Putin is not a leader that we can trust.” – Sanna Marin (35:34)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Do I really have to do this now?...those are also the moments where you have to jump and think to yourself that if somebody else can do this, maybe I can too." – Sanna Marin (06:25)
• "All women in charge of our parties, and four of us were under 40..." – Sanna Marin (08:20)
• "The amount of different kind of like violent, sexualized content...is so vast that I just dropped count ages ago." – Sanna Marin (10:24)
• “Not a victory, but a path forward.” – Sanna Marin, on her first act of activism as a child (14:06)
• “At some point later on I actually lost my vision for one day. I couldn’t ...see her face or see any text or anything.” – Sanna Marin (28:36)
• “Russia is not a country and Putin is not a leader that we can trust.” – Sanna Marin (35:34)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• [05:02] – Sanna Marin on her surprise rise to PM
• [08:20] – Finland’s ‘women-led’ government
• [09:44] – Sexism and backlash to female leadership
• [12:31] – Childhood protest: forest story
• [14:21] – Background: poverty and rainbow family
• [19:10] – Meeting Donald Trump
• [23:25] – COVID-19: first awareness and response
• [27:06] – Societal trust and voluntary compliance
• [28:36] – Physical stress and vision loss
• [29:43] – Russian invasion of Ukraine: first response
• [32:05] – Decision for NATO entry
• [35:34] – Russia’s reaction and threat assessment

Tone and Language

Marin’s tone is candid, reflective, and humble, with frequent references to collective effort and gratitude. Kavita Puri’s questions are empathetic and probing, guiding Marin to share both vulnerability and hard-earned lessons. The conversation is personal yet rooted in major historical events, offering both emotional resonance and political insight.

This episode offers a rare and inspiring glimpse into leading a nation in crisis, balancing personal history, principle, and pragmatism at the highest level of power.