A deep dive into the Epstein files with Annie Elise, and the beginning of a lot more Epstein content

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Intentionally Disrupting

Episode: "A deep dive into the Epstein files with Annie Elise, and the beginning of a lot more Epstein content"

Host: Dr. Leslie Dobson (B)
Guest: Annie Elise (A)
Date: February 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode is a fiercely unfiltered investigation into the recently released Jeffrey Epstein files, exploring the intersection of crime, conspiracy, and dark comedy. Dr. Leslie Dobson and Annie Elise dissect the document dump from the Department of Justice relating to Epstein’s operations and the resulting global fallout. With a forensic psychologist’s expertise and a true crime creator's curiosity, the episode unpacks horrifying revelations, how the files confirm or refute years of speculation, and the psychological systems enabling such vast abuse.

Tone: Sarcastic, blunt, darkly comedic, yet focused and deeply researched.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Scope and Nature of the Epstein Files

• DOJ’s selective release of millions of pages related to Epstein has caused industry turmoil and resignations worldwide.

  “This is a massive cover up being led by the White House and the DOJ. It's selective release ... There's something deeply up with.” (B, 00:12)

• This is not just sex trafficking, but a global web: money laundering, possible drug smuggling, and industrial-scale child abuse.

2. Epstein’s Eugenics & Fertility Obsessions

• Epstein was obsessed with creating "the perfect gene" and had relationships with doctors at top universities (Harvard, Princeton, UCLA) to facilitate genetic experiments and embryo storage.

  “…He wanted to basically spread his seed. His seed is still in a cryo chamber.” (B, 03:50)

• Survivors report stories of forced pregnancies and IVF, with babies disappearing after birth—a point left horrifyingly unresolved.

3. Cannibalism, Rituals, and Disturbing Patterns

• Dr. Leslie draws from her work with cannibals to contextualize allegations of elite cannibalism: consumption as sadistic reward, psychotic need for "belonging," or as a "delicacy" linked with power (05:20).

• Email evidence discussed includes references to “jerky,” "intestines of babies," and "cream cheese," potentially as cannibalistic codewords, especially peak 2010–2012 with Pizzagate conspiracy crossovers (06:43).

4. Grooming and the Leverage Game

• Epstein’s manipulation was two-fold: abuse of minors and the cultivation/corruption of the rich and powerful for leverage (e.g., offering underage girls at private parties, managing financial portfolios in exchange for silence or compliance).

• Ghislaine Maxwell served as an active recruiter and handler, identifying, luring, and grooming adolescents under various pretexts (10:50).

5. Use of School Photography and Targeting Children

• Explicit connections drawn from LifeTouch (major school photographer) to Epstein’s estate. Kids’ photos and yearbooks reportedly sent to Epstein—potentially as a "menu" (09:58–10:50).

• Notable quote on the implications:

  “…receipts and payments. They were sending the photos of all the kids ... my assumption is that they were offered as a menu of gender and race and looks.” (B, 10:14)

6. Tactics to Hide Evidence and Circumvent Scrutiny

• DOJ’s redactions poorly executed—initially, it was possible to copy/paste and unredact names. Now more sophisticated, but hackers and researchers are still uncovering content (16:22).

• DOJ is allegedly removing or revising files post-release, underestimating the persistence and tech-savviness of the public.

7. Missing Videos and the "Epstein Didn't Kill Himself" Discourse

• Night Epstein died: Video is missing 23 seconds.

  “It is cut. There is about 23 seconds missing.” (B, 16:47)

• Dr. Leslie believes Epstein could still be alive, referencing frequent plastic surgeon visits and circumstantial evidence of international relocation—though not definitively proven (17:08).

8. Evidence of Global Complicity and Ongoing Cover Up

• Names of high-ranking figures in U.S. and worldwide governments appear throughout the files.

  “...the highest people in our government and our administration and almost every other country are named and involved as well.” (B, 11:41)

• Other countries are arresting implicated individuals, while U.S. accountability is severely lacking.

9. Darkest Bombshells & Victim Testimonies

• Journal entries describe repeated forced pregnancies and the removal of newborns amid medicalized, ritualistic abuse (19:28).

• Correspondence between Epstein and doctors about “dehydrating babies to make them suck harder,” then giving them to abusers. Real names and emails are cited, mostly redacted in the files but traceable (26:29–27:36).

  "There was a professor teaching Epstein how to get babies to suck harder and that if you keep them dehydrated and hungry, their suction is harder. And those babies were being given to these men, and the men were orally them. ... This is written in the email in the files." (B, 26:35, 26:51–27:17)

10. Codewords, Human "Jerky," and Physical Evidence

• Analysis of recurring codewords: “pizza,” “jerky,” “cream cheese,” used in emails and suspected to refer to children or human flesh.

• Chef connected to the "jerky" exchanges is owner of a real restaurant called “Cannibal”—questioning the “tongue-in-cheek” nature or genuine signaling (34:18).

• Sulfuric acid purchases (hundreds of gallons) and Zorro Ranch airspace lockdown strongly imply evidence destruction or body disposal (30:57–31:19).

11. The Trap Door and Other Physical Evidence

• Photo evidence of a trap door in Epstein's island mansion leading to the sea, presumed for clandestine disposal (43:22).
• Reference to imagery of kitchens, bones, and other potential physical evidence being rapidly deleted by DOJ (44:44).

12. The Persistence of Code, Conspiracy, and Psychological Warfare

• Dr. Leslie explains how suppression, overwhelming evidence, and constantly shifting narratives is “psychological warfare” meant to desensitize and confuse the public (53:57).

  “...It's psychological warfare. And that's why I'm so proud of the people who are continuing to fight through this and talk about it.” (B, 54:05)

13. Ongoing Congressional (In)action and Future Accountability

• Congress largely overwhelmed and ill-equipped—many haven’t read the files. Some grassroots groups are pushing for deeper pattern recognition and are working with Dr. Leslie directly for guidance (59:38).

• Zorro Ranch is named as a location where victims could be buried—cadaver dog searches repeatedly denied, but pressure is mounting (60:10–60:47).

• Dr. Leslie expresses optimism that accountability will come, probably spurred by international legal action and potential whistleblowers (26:03, 52:31).

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Notable Quotes

• On the pervasiveness and darkness of the files:

  “It's dark though.” (B, 01:44)
  “...certain things that I saw… were so dark. That I was almost kind of like, this is too unbelievable to even be real.” (A, 01:46)

• On cannibalism in elite circles:

  “…Elite people dining on human beings, ordering them. Usually you don't see it in America…It's the caviar of fish. It's venison…” (B, 05:20)

• On code words and the Pizzagate theory:

  “...when you start looking at these files… I've never seen so many emails where they are talking about pizza back and forth…” (A, 36:04)

• On DOJ document mishandling:

  “They definitely underestimated the capacity of all of us and what we were capable of doing with their poor redactions.” (B, 16:22)

• On why U.S. arrests are rare:

  “...if our US Government won't fully unredact things, other countries will, because they can still subpoena the same Epstein estate that we did.” (B, 12:01)

• On why Ghislaine Maxwell remains alive:

  “She's important, but she's also important to proving people's claims should things go awry.…she is a tool that they'll use when needed depending on what direction.” (B, 57:15)

• On hope for exposure:

  “It's bigger than Watergate. It's a massive cover up of our. The biggest one of our lifetime.” (B, 52:23)

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Timestamps for Crucial Segments

• Opening / DOJ Files Released: 00:00–02:57
• Epstein’s Eugenics & Doctors: 02:57–04:50
• Cannibalism Explanations: 05:20–06:42
• LifeTouch, Orphanages, and Menus of Abuse: 09:37–10:50
• How the DOJ Fumbled Redactions / Evidence Suppression: 16:22–17:10
• Is Epstein Alive? / Video Evidence Missing: 16:46–17:54
• Testimony: Forced Pregnancies and Baby Disappearances: 19:28–22:46
• Professor Email About Baby Suction / Abuse: 26:29–27:36
• Jerky Codeword and Cannibalism Theories: 30:13–34:18
• Trap Door Details and Physical Evidence: 43:22–44:44
• Confronting Psychological Overload / Desensitization: 53:57–54:39
• Congress/DOJ & Accountability Hopes: 59:38–60:47

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Memorable Moments

• Dr. Leslie’s clinical candor and personal anecdotes—from brain matter in prison sessions (23:00) to referencing real, traceable doctors in the files.
• The back-and-forth balancing skepticism and devil’s advocacy—e.g., can any of the “jerky,” “pizza,” or “suction” emails be explained innocently?
• A gut-wrenching survivor’s journal entry about forced pregnancies and the macabre disappearance of infants. (19:28)
• "We have 12,000 videotapes of just kids." Pam Bondi caught on a hot mic, referenced by Dr. Leslie as indication of both evidence withheld and the scale of the crimes. (50:43)
• The collective tone of bitter sarcasm and urgency, as the two attempt to laugh in the face of horror—all while highlighting the real-life systems shielding the powerful.

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Conclusion & Next Steps

• Dr. Leslie will continue to analyze, compile patterns, and advise members of Congress, encouraging public participation in identifying connections.
• Grassroots action is emphasized: submit files, patterns, or tips to Dr. Leslie’s channels.
• The episode closes with an acknowledgment of the burden of dark knowledge, a call for perseverance, and plans for additional deep-dive episodes as new information emerges.

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Find Dr. Leslie Dobson:

• [YouTube] - Doctor Leslie
• [Instagram] - @dr.leslie
• [TikTok] - @dr.leslie

Feedback or tips? Contact Dr. Leslie for research contributions or to support Congressional exposure efforts.

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This summary captures the gravity, complexity, and dark humor that define the episode—serving as a resource for anyone seeking clarity amid the chaos of the Epstein file revelations.

Transcript

[A]

The Department of Justice's recent release of millions of pages of documents related to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein has now led to a wave of resignations and scrutiny over high profile executives around the world.

[B]

This is a massive cover up being led by the White House and the doj. It's selective release. We've seen this consistently model cast it of all kinds. There's something deeply up with.

[A]

Do you think you're the devil himself?

[B]

I don't know. Why would you say that?

[A]

And you guys might be familiar with her, maybe on Instagram, TikTok podcasting. I've had her here as a special guest before. But joining me today is somebody who has been covering everything relating to Epstein, the dirty things that have gone on, the allegations. She has been working directly with Congress as well on the Epstein files. She is a forensic psychologist, knows everything there is to know about this. Please join me in welcoming Dr. Leslie Dobson. Hi.

[B]

Thanks, thanks for being here. I'm excited to have the space to talk about it.

[A]

Well, I know you've been like all over Instagram, which you guys have to go check out her Instagram if you haven't already because you are posting so much on there and exposing so much. And it's great hearing it from your point of view. I mean, you've been in this industry, you've worked with the worst of the worst. You are partnering with Congress, you have the files. Like your take is so incredibly important. So I appreciate you being here.

[B]

It's wild because, you know, on TikTok, you know, I don't know what was going on. TikTok got overtaken and like bought out

[A]

or there was some weird thing where now everything is being filtered.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then I, I go on, I do a little video about Epstein and the suctioning of baby's mouths, which we'll get into. And it's at 6 million views because

[A]

people want to know. I think that's the thing. That's where I'm at too.

[B]

I can explain it. Yeah. I mean it's dark though.

[A]

It's very dark. But I think it's like, and I'm just going to speak for myself and maybe this is going to come across the wrong way, but whatever, I'm going to just speak my truth. I've known about all of the Epstein stuff and like, you know, the allegations, accusations for years, all of us have. But when the files finally started being released and we were actually seeing things in black and white, there were certain things that I saw that, to your point, were so dark. That I was almost kind of like, this is too unbelievable to even be real. But then. And which I'm not trying to doubt the authenticity, not at all. I believe it's real because then when you start looking into it, it is real. There is validation in a lot of those things. And so I've been debating if I wanted to ever go near Epste island with all of this, because, you know, it's like you get flagged, you get shadow banned, you get opinions, and it very quickly turns political. And yeah, I just really want to know the truth. And I think so many people do. It is dark, it's scary to go there. But, like, what is truly happening? Who's involved and like, what. What the hell is going on? So I guess that's the best place to start. If you could break down to us, like, based on everything that you're saying, what are some of the biggest things in those files that you have been able to confirm and validate as being real and not conspiracy?

[B]

I mean, I think if we look at it as an umbrella, there's many ways to look at it, right? This is massive, but this is an international money laundering, probably drug, definitely sex child organization. It is international. If people didn't seek out to be a part of Epstein's world, then he would seek them out because of their power, their money, their wealth, and he would then use them. He preferred. I mean, there's tons of stuff about how he. He was super into fertility. He wanted to make like the perfect person, the perfect gene. And there's. This is why we have all these doctors named in the files, doctors that are still teaching right now at Harvard and Princeton and ucla. Disgusting. In these emails to him talking about ways for him to meet his mission, which was that he wanted to basically spread. Spread his seed.

[A]

Sick.

[B]

His seed is still in a cryo chamber. There are. Last year, there were receipts that they're being paid for. They're still there, embryos.

[A]

So he just wanted to procreate and like make a bunch of Epstein's all over the world.

[B]

That. And he also had these. He was weird.

[A]

I mean, yeah, he was.

[B]

He was just weird, right? But he also had these ideas of like youth and like longevity and shape shifting and that's where you get into these conspiracies. But literally in these emails, he's asking these doctors about what is the potential for this to happen? You know, can I freeze myself? Can I live longer? How can I use these amazing doctors to benefit these kind of conspiracy theories that he wanted, right? One of them. And it has not been substantiated. But the one that I have been really focused on has been cannibalism. And my focus is because I've worked with cannibals. Like, I know cannibals. I've done violence risk assessments on them. We study cannibals in our. And serial killers. Right.

[A]

Which actually, I want to pause really quick. Can you explain to the listeners? Because I'm familiar with cannibalism because of certain true crime cases I've covered. And psychologically, what motivates people to do that? Because I think from an outsider's point of view, they're like, oh, they are just. They are sickos that like the taste of flesh, which that's not necessarily always the reason. Sometimes it's like a consumption piece of it. So can you explain from, based on your work with cannibals, what it is that typically or usually more times than not, motivate someone to go down that avenue?

[B]

You know, you could probably break it up into three different cannibals. One is more that sadistic. They want to hurt, and the reward is eating the body or the flesh. One is more that they're psychotic and they're ingesting, like in a lot of our serial killers, they're ingesting the person because they feel like they can belong or be a part of that person or they have an internalized friend almost. Mm. Um, and then you've got the Jeffrey Epstein cannibalism, which is. There are books about this for hundreds of years. Right. Elite people dining on human beings, ordering them. Usually you don't see it in America. Right. It's kind of like we have movies about this, but they're ordering human meat and it's considered like a delicacy. It's a delicacy. Right. It's the caviar of fish. It's venison. And what. Over time, we've had these conspiracy theories of Pizzagate, like that pizza means children, and we have all these different words that people use. And I have lots of lists. I can always provide anyone who wants them. As you go through all of these emails, you see around 2010, 2012, when the pizzagate was really becoming active and, like, people were talking about it, the code words in the emails, literal emails of Epstein and Bill Gates, like, these are known entities starting to talk about jerky.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so. And then they're talking about the intestines of babies. They're talking about cream cheese. They're talking about the taste of formula or Breast milk within the intestines of babies. And so you literally. I think the most obscene part of all of this is you have these names that you once thought were so incredible. Writing these, I have to say, like, major typos and major grammatical errors as well.

[A]

I was gonna say some of the emails. I'm saying, like, what's with the equal sign everywhere? And like, that's not the conversion. Okay.

[B]

That's the.

[A]

I'm like, what's going on here? Can it, Bill. Billionaires not type. I just can't figure it out.

[B]

No, I think that's the. The conversion that the FBI used, the software they use.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't think it's any type of a code.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But what you will see is you'll see a famous person's name, and then you'll see a preference like baby, minor, teen.

[A]

And are they outright saying the age or are they using code through the. Because what I had heard, and you tell me if this is true or not, that going back to the Pizzagate conspiracy, that now people are starting to think that there was actually validity in that, that it wasn't just a conspiracy, and that when they would order, call it a small, medium, or large, the inch size, based on the diameter of the pizza, really equates to the age of whoever they're trying to order, so to speak.

[B]

I think it's both. And it could be the age of who they wanted to. So it's also the. The sexual offenses. Right. Like, and I don't know, what's not clear too, is did they say what they want? Or was Epstein and the people working, thinking this is what this individual would like, should they come? Because he preyed upon very rich, famous people as well.

[A]

So that kind of brings me to my next point. You said that early on is that he would pray with the powerful, the wealthy, because it was almost as though he wanted to extend favors or luxuries to them so that then he would have leverage over them. I think that's how he ended up becoming the hedge fund guy, or whatever he was of that one guy, he became really friendly with Wexler, the guy who owned. What was it limited to? Or the limited. Yeah. And so because he would meet all of these very powerful people and rub elbows with them and be like, hey, come to my party. Come to my island. Do this. Or then sneak in. Here's this underage girl. Here's this. Now I have leverage over you. Give me all of your financials. I'm going to manage your portfolio now. And Things like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So that was kind of his M.O.

[B]

he was grooming them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think they were using him and they didn't care. And they were horrible, disgusting people. And then you have. I like to say, we can't make. It's not everyone. Right. It's not everyone that's involved. We can't generalize. Small moments.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But a lot of people were forcing themselves on young, young girls. We have pictures of babies. We have pictures of a girl that she probably looks 7 or 8. People were sending in photos hoping that Jeffrey Epstein would take them.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

I mean, these.

[A]

We're.

[B]

We're talking about, you know, orphanages. We're talking about parents literally reaching out. We're talking about our own kids getting their photographs at school.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Through Life Touch and that being so sold to the Epstein estate.

[A]

So can you break that down? Because I. I'm not sure if everybody who's listening or watching this is familiar with that, but it's the company LifeTouch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They used to take my school pictures when I was in middle school. They are like a huge company. It's like the mecca that goes to all the schools and takes all the photographs of the kids. And what happened with Life Touch.

[B]

Well, so. And this is where people are. People will fight back all the time. They're going to say conspiracy. Conspiracy. And what people mean by conspiracy is you're linking too many things together that aren't related. Right. We can't link it all together. We can link this. Leon Black owned all of these companies.

[A]

These.

[B]

They were sending the photos. There are receipts and payments. They were sending the photos of all the kids that Life Touch took pictures of the yearbooks to Epstein. Now, what did they do with them? We don't know. Right. A lot of it's redacted. My assumption is that they were offered as a menu of gender and race and looks because, again, Epstein wanted certain people to reproduce and certain ones not to. But he also wanted to offer a menu to people for the type of person or the type of child they wanted to abuse.

[A]

And then was Ghislaine, like, the curator of that and the gatekeeper.

[B]

So with Ghislaine, she was actively. I mean, she. She did a TED Talk like, okay, on water. But she was actively driving around oftentimes with Juan, one of the house managers. And she was looking for young girls, teenagers. I mean, they. They didn't. Adolescents. I mean, she wasn't like, straight up looking for babies. Right. And she was inviting them in to model and to come to the island. And then that's when they would be

[A]

offered these careers doing the massages and doing. Yeah. Where it would then start escalating. They were in the fold and it would go. And I think that's what a lot of us had heard years ago, back when he was first thrown into prison and when everything happened.

[B]

But that's nothing compared to what we see now.

[A]

Well, and so I was going to ask, I know you're working with Congress on some of this, and as of just last week, things are unredacted. Have you seen some of the unredacted documents?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what does that. Some of that illustrate that the highest

[B]

people in our government and our administration and almost every other country are named and involved as well.

[A]

So why is nobody being arrested? Because it's only accusations in America. What do you mean?

[B]

Other countries are arresting people? They are, yes.

[A]

So who's being arrested in other countries?

[B]

The sultan who was responsible for the email. Like, did you her. He. I don't know if he's actually being arrested yet, but he stepped down from being his, what, a billionaire financier, A pilot in a different country. I can't remember all the countries was arrested, taken straight off the airplane. But what's happening, which I think is fascinating, is that if our US Government won't fully unredact things, other countries will, because they can still subpoena the same Epstein estate that we did.

[A]

And there are a lot of people in the United States who have been stepping down as of the last couple of weeks. It was like the CEO of Chuck E. Cheese, he stepped down. And look, I think that. And you may have touched on this a little bit, too. You have to pick and choose what is not. That's the wrong way. Not what is real in files, but also like, what somebody's level of involvement knowledge was. Because just because somebody is named in an email, if they were invited to a party or an event doesn't mean necessarily that they knew the inner workings, that they even went to the event. And I think sometimes we're in a place where so many people say, like, if your name pops up once, you must have known where. It's like, no, he knew everyone. He was inviting everyone. However, that being said, there are a lot of threads where it's like, there is direct involvement. And if people are willingly stepping down and not pushing back and saying, well, I didn't know anything this and that, obviously there is some level, in my opinion, at least, of guilt in that. Otherwise, if somebody, like, if My name showed up in one email where they were like, annie, do you want to come to a movie premiere like Epstein's inviting you from like 2016? Which would have been post first conviction, and I wouldn't have gone, but just thrown it out there. And if I was like, yeah, I'll go or no, I won't go, that wouldn't necessarily mean I had direct knowledge of what was going on in his house, the parties, the island. Again, that was post conviction, so that could be argued a hundred percent. But my point is, I don't think anyone who has ever crossed paths with paths with him at some point necessarily knows the extent of what was truly going on. That feels like. Not that it was a select few, because I think it was way more than a select few, but it does feel like it's more of a. A bubble kind of.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I think everyone knew he was a sex offender, but that also doesn't mean that. I mean, we just had Mike Tyson on Netflix doing a fight. I mean, he's a sex offender. Like, I. There are so many people that we still platform as sex offenders. It's just become, okay, right? We have sexual allegations against our own president. So it's normalized in a sense where people would then think it's not a big deal to attend.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it's. It's the people that were going and that were asking for things or were asking to go again or asking what the dinner menus were going to be. And there is a lot of, as we move forward in the post 22, I think there's a lot more coding and code words that are put in because people knew eyes were on him and they didn't want to be caught.

[A]

So let's talk about some of that. And for those of you who are only listening to this episode and not watching, Dr. Leslie brought her computer. She's got it fully up in front of her. She's got all of her information, all of her documents. So let's walk through what some of the big takeaways are, are that everybody is talking about, that I know you have posted about, that are kind of. And warning. This is very graphic and it gets very dark and unsettling. But what are some of these big things now that have been uncovered since this release?

[B]

And I say this with. I'm a forensic psychologist. I. I base my entire world in research and science. I add 50 to 150 articles to prove things before I say them. Right? And so when I say these things, it's because I'VE seen the patterns of behavior throughout history, throughout research, and now in. Well, I've probably gone through hundreds of thousands of these emails. I've turned. I've converted the images all into videos myself. I've been trying to just learn how to hack this shit. I've lined up with hackers who are helping me. You know, they put all the files into what they call a J mail, and so you can search the files easier. Now we have all caught the DOJ taking files down that were once up. And everyone's kind of curious why. They definitely underestimated the capacity of all of us and what we were capable of doing with their poor redactions. Because if you remember the original redactions, you could just copy and paste the PDF into a word and the black box went off and you could see all the names. Well, now, they didn't do that. So now you can't take the black box off, but some people actually can.

[A]

Yeah, there's so much software and tools out there that you can. Absolutely.

[B]

And then they have all these images up. But the images you literally pull up on justice.gov Epstein, you've got the EFTA number and it has dots PDF. Take out PDF and put in MP4, it turns into a video. One in particular will be the video of the night he died.

[A]

Really?

[B]

It is cut. There is about 23 seconds missing.

[A]

Okay, so we are. And I. I do know that there was a piece of the. A chunk of the video missing. And I remember that from quite a while ago. Let me ask you this. And this part, I just want to be clear with everybody, is we're going into conspiracy land for just one second, just for this question, and then we'll go back to reality. Do you think that Epstein is alive?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You do?

[B]

I do.

[A]

I know a lot of people think he's in Israel right now.

[B]

I saw those pictures. I don't really know.

[A]

I don't think that's him.

[B]

He did have a plastic surgeon, which is in the records, coming frequently to his estate after 2016. So I don't know why was a plastic surgeon there? He did have medical issues. Someone said there was a tumor. He had doctors coming often. Okay, so was he changing his face? I don't know at this.

[A]

Well, he would have had to change his face space after release or after the death, which, again, like, it sounds crazy to some people, but it's not crazy. It's not impossible. It certainly is not impossible when you have that many powerful people trying to cover something up to scoot someone away. Although you would hope that, like, you just kill him and be done. And if that were the case, like, why isn't Ghislaine.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Dead?

[B]

Because she's our fall girl.

[A]

Well, and I want to get into all of that because I know she's cleaning the Fifth. And, like, when I saw that video last week, I lost my mind. Just, like, the arrogance on her when she refuses to talk. And it's because she's working out her own sweet deal. I get it. I get how it all works, but it's just, like, it is unbelievable to me. I just want street justice to take wind.

[B]

Yeah. And that's why I think you say, you know, this isn't political. Like, the biggest proponent for locking her up right now is Nancy Mace. I think she's very conservative. Right. This is hitting. Once they are seeing the actual files, a lot of the congresspeople have been like, I don't know if I'm gonna look. I don't know if I have time. They don't even know what the hell they're doing yet. They're voting on stuff related to this. They're voting, but they don't. They haven't even taken a moment to look. So it's not political in a sense that it's Democratic versus Republican. It's more just this kind of cultish group that doesn't want to believe what is actually out there to be seen.

[A]

Because it's too dark to believe, I think, for a lot of people. And it's too unbelievable. But you made a good point. And I've seen a couple people on social media say that, too. They're saying, like, it's not even about right and left anymore. It's about, like, humankind and doing the right thing and holding the people accountable who did the wrong thing and coming together in that way and not having such division, which maybe that's just a fairy tale for right now, but hopefully it is somewhere.

[B]

Maybe it will bring us all together.

[A]

Maybe it will. So, sorry, I sidetracked a little bit. Let's go back a bit. So what are some of the biggest bombshell findings that you have seen in the files that you have uncovered?

[B]

Yesterday was pretty monumental for me, and I. Some people have already covered it, but I read the journal entry of one of the victims, and it basically is. It's a little bit of poetry. It's written in. She has it written in code, but she basically describes, over a short period of time, pregnant three times, and describes each time the baby was forced out of her One baby was 4 pound, 10 ounces. It did not seem like she was in delivery. It seemed like they were inducing her. She described it as having to, you know, when your tummy hurts and you have to push. She used the word tummy. She was baby. And so. So she described, you know, basically, it didn't work out the first time. And Epstein was really mad. There was a lot of screaming and he said, don't worry, we'll get it done in a couple months. And then she said, he was right. In a couple months, there were two pink lines. Oh, my God. So he was doing IVF or these girls and probably a lot of others. So that was horrifying to me. And then the part that really got me was that Maxwell was there the whole time covering her eyes, saying, don't look. But each time she did look and she would see the baby's hand or the baby's foot, oh, my God. She said that she would hear the baby cry. Now, this is the part where you can say it's conspiracy or not. I don't know. Each time these girls were allowed to hold the baby for 10 or 15 minutes and give them the initial. What do we call it? Breast milk.

[A]

Like latching the colostrum.

[B]

Yeah, colostrum. Why were they allowed to hold that baby for 10 to 15 minutes and then the baby was taken and they never saw the baby again. Where are all these babies? Is a really good question. So that's where you get into this idea of. Well, there are many books on cannibalistic rituals of that being a very, I don't know, very hormonal. Very. It can give you youth if you eat intestines. When that. What is it called again?

[A]

Colostrum.

[B]

Colostrum is present in the intestines also. So we have that. But also we have. We have abortion, like rooms everywhere, Jepp. Everywhere Epstein was. We have abortion specialists, doctors.

[A]

And this is proven.

[B]

Yes. The emails are when they're coming. I need you. The emails change over time. The names are in line. She names Doctor. There's a Dr. Mark Landon that was brought to the island frequently. He's a fertility specialist. The names all line up. Virginia Giuffre said in her book that he was absolutely obsessed with fertility. You know, he still has his cryo chamber and his sperm active today. But what changes a lot is that they start asking to go to the dentist a lot and then the dentist starts to come to them and everyone needs a dental cleaning and he wants to see photos before and after the Dentist. These are abortions now. And this sounds, again, so, so wild. Right. But in my experience, 20 years with criminals, these are words they use. They. They don't. You. They know. Right.

[A]

Well, you've worked with some of the worst of the worst. And I know we didn't do a ton of your background in the beginning of this episode, but just to give the listeners a little bit of context, too, you have worked with some of the worst sex offenders out there. You've worked in the prison systems. You have been on so many court cases. I mean, so this is something that you have seen and lived with and worked with for years in your every life and your husband as well.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And I've consulted with the FBI, I've consulted with. With CIA. I worked in dc. I also have the ability to say, this is too far. This is too conspiracy. Right.

[A]

So will you kind of self regulate and check yourself when you're, like, going on a path? Once you're reading all these files, I would imagine sometimes you start going down the rabbit hole a little bit and you're like, oh, I need to check myself. Like, it's going too far. Are you able to, like, catch yourself pretty quickly with that?

[B]

Yeah. And it's because things are so. My level of realism is very different than other people because I have literally sat and talked to a guy who had brain matter in his pocket.

[A]

What?

[B]

Like, that was just. I had a therapy session with a guy in prison and he had killed his cellmate and he thought that literally that was the way to hide it. This the part of the brain that splurged out.

[A]

He just had it in his pocket.

[B]

Yeah, but you know, prison guard, like, they're thin, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I literally thought he was. Was orgasming.

[A]

Wait, hold on, wait, hold on. Hold the on. Okay. He had brain matter in his pocket. Why did you think he was orgasming? Because he was like.

[B]

Because I could see the moisture starting to bleed.

[A]

I see.

[B]

Or not bleed.

[A]

But you saw, like, liquid in his pants.

[B]

Yeah, got.

[A]

Okay. I thought you meant, like, by his mood.

[B]

No, he wasn't. I couldn't see his penis or anything, but he. I could see moisture, like, on his thin khaki outfit. And he went back to his cell. It was a very, like, shallow, superficial, like. Like, I'm not sure what happened. I'm not gonna call him out. It's not entirely safe to call anyone out. Yeah. And then, well, they just came and handcuffed him because he had just killed the cellmate.

[A]

So you've seen it all like, yeah,

[B]

so criminals know that they need to hide.

[A]

Yeah. So they use code word. They do things. That's kind of another question. And I'm actually gonna put on my notepad to ask you after because I don't wanna derail too much. So you had said there were these termination rooms. There were. Where are these babies? Then that leads us into the cannibalism piece of it. How people not only view it as a delicacy, but that. Not like, you know, unlimited life, but like it will enhance your life. It will. You'll be an enlightened being, almost like a cult or something if you consume that.

[B]

Right. It's, you know, what is it called? Adrenochrome. Like, he, he was. These researchers are. I mean, they're incredible researchers.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They are teaching at Princeton and Harvard and ucla. But he was using them for dark things. And now do they know that? Did they know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't know. But one of the biggest things was that when you eat, usually when you eat raw human brain, there's a virus. You can get. The bacteria, I think is called prion. Okay. And it gives you. This is where you can call me a conspiracy theorist. I don't know. Prove me wrong. It gives you a disease called kuru. K U R. Okay. Now, the doctor that was frequently coming, who taught at Harvard and had his assistant, who's now a world renowned professor at Princeton, he wrote an article in 1998 on prions and kuru. And his primary focus was trying to slow down the degeneration of the brain when you have these, when you have Alzheimer's, when you have diseases like this.

[A]

But the argument could be that he was studying the brain and he just wanted to know the effects rather than he took part in anything. But then, coincidentally, he was frequently going to the island and working with Epstein.

[B]

Yes, got it. And then you have other doctors to the point of inviting Epstein over when they knew their children were having sleepovers. And across the world, other countries as well. So it's deciphering. How much did people know? This is why we need everyone to testify. We need to hold them accountable.

[A]

But I guess that's my question too. Just sidebarring. Do you think that people will ever be held accountable here?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm starting to think so. Because there's 3,000 billionaires in this world. How many?

[A]

I mean, by the same, it seems like a lot of them are involved by the looks of it.

[B]

Yeah. How many of us are there?

[A]

Well, and that I feel like that's kind of Going back, too, to where everybody's becoming this united front a little bit, wanting to expose the dark and demanding it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so let's go back to some of the biggest bombshells that you have found in the files. What else do we have?

[B]

I think that I don't know what words to use. I don't want to, like, get everything completely banned, but.

[A]

No, you can use it.

[B]

There was a professor teaching Epstein how to get babies to suck harder and that if you keep them dehydrated and hungry, their suction is harder. And those babies were being given to these men, and the men were orally them.

[A]

This is proven.

[B]

This is written in the email in the files.

[A]

Who's this professor?

[B]

Don't.

[A]

Wait. Okay.

[B]

We can. You can Google it in a second.

[A]

So a professor was saying that by dehydrating the baby, withholding food, withholding liquid, it's gonna. They're, of course, because they're gonna be emaciated and they're going to be dying for thirst and food and sustenance, that they would then suck harder. So then they would do that. You're saying. Are you saying that they would do that to babies and then pass these babies to these predators?

[B]

Yes. And there's one professor who. I think it might be the UCLA one, and they've been protesting at ucla. Mark Tramo, who. I think he was the one the email says they will suck more vigorously. These are actual emails. And he also said if you play the voice of the mother, they will suck more.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah, that's really. That literally is written.

[A]

Let me come in as devil's advocate for just a minute here. I don't even know.

[B]

I welcome it.

[A]

I don't even know if there's a way to. And if there's an entry point for that. What else could he be explaining that for? Why else would anybody need to know that?

[B]

I mean, he was a. A baby specialist. So maybe to maybe. Could the argument be teaching women to breastfeed better?

[A]

Well, I was just gonna say could the argument be that. But were these emails to Epstein?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because after they had. After these people had been on the island.

[A]

Okay. Cause like. And tell me if I'm. If this is a correct scenario or if there's no way this would work out, but if I were someone who just. Just gave birth and I was struggling with breastfeeding and latching, my baby also wouldn't take a bottle, and I was losing it, and I reached out to this specialist and said, hey, what can I do and they're like, dehydrate them. They'll suck harder. They'll latch you. They want to hear your voice. Those things all track why they would need to route that message through Epstein to me. Is there any world in which. Why that would happen years after he

[B]

was a known sexual predator and like

[A]

he wasn't in these emails saying, give Jane this tip or advice. It was just to Epstein.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For Epstein to have that.

[B]

A lot of the names are redacted. So it could have been other people.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Epstein's name I don't really think is redacted anywhere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But there were people were cc'd onto these messages.

[A]

So he was. He was receiving this at some point.

[B]

And replying.

[A]

And replying.

[B]

There's.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

The. When people say like 3 million just dumped. It's literally like one email.

[A]

Like a couple sentences. A couple sentences, not a thread.

[B]

And then you'll get. The next file is going to be the reply with the first one. The next one's going to be the next reply with the first two. So it's not like 3 million individual. It's not. It is a lot, but it's not that.

[A]

More threads and like the whole sequence of everything.

[B]

If you can get to the bottom of each thread of each email and have the whole email, then your time is used better. And that's where AI is coming in to do this for us. But yeah, no, they're. They are corresponding back and forth and that's in writing. Imagine what they're talking about on the phone.

[A]

I mean, well, and that. Okay, so that was kind of the question I wrote down that I was actually going to table for later is like, what morons are putting all of this in email? I mean that. That sounds. Seems crazy to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're trying to be so secretive and use code words and all this, like, why not have the conversations in person? I get it. Maybe not over the phone because of why you're tapping and recording, but like emails. That's a digital footprint. Like what are you even thinking? Yeah, but like we love to it. We love to see when people are dumb and do that because then here we are.

[B]

Right. One thing I want to. Don't want to forget about is. And again, like, I welcome anyone to prove me wrong because I hoped to. Fucking hell. This is not true. But when we mentioned jerky, that was the more elite human meat is what I'm interpreting this as. There were emails from people redacted names again, saying, hey, I. I have 68 pounds of jerky. In my freezer. I'm not sure what to do with it. There were emails of, I need more jerky. I'm gonna send it to the lab. Okay. Okay, there were, what were the other emails?

[A]

Well, I saw some where it's like I'm gonna walk the jerky across the street to so and so and yeah. Or I'm gonna travel with the jerky. Make sure, you know, a six ounce block of ice should do it. So. Okay, let me ask you this.

[B]

The sulfuric acid is the part I was gonna say. Oh, what is that? When he knew they were coming after him. We haven't even gotten to Sasha Riley. We've talked about Sasha Riley. But when the they knew they were gonna come arrest him. He ordered 330 gallons of sulfuric acid. Which is what, which is how you would dispose of babies. Anything, really anything. And then the mentioned.

[A]

How many gallons did he order?

[B]

330 at one point and I believe 50 at another point.

[A]

Sulfuric acid?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And there are mentions. And now Congress is actually speaking about it. They did this week. A few Republican Congress women, I believe. And Thomas Massie spoke about Zorra Ranch and how there's so many mentions of bury them in Zorra Ranch, leave them in Zorra ranch. Now that's 7,000 acres of land that Jeffrey Epstein owns in New York, Mexico. And it's actively working right now. Is it.

[A]

This might be a really ignorant question, and it probably is. Is it on native land?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

No, it's, it's considered like a little town. And they change the street names on Google maps. It's like blurred out. You know, you can ask them to do that. Um, and then again, again, this would be conspiracy last. A couple days ago, we closed the airspace over ranch for 10 days. Weird, right? That's where I'm like, okay, it's enough

[A]

to make your head explode.

[B]

It's enough for me to be like, I'm not gonna take that as truth. But I, I, I'm building this. I'm filling my bucket with doubt that this administration was clean of this.

[A]

So I wanna circle back really quickly to the jerky of it all, because I'm not as familiar with that. But I did see it. And so for anyone who's listening, who doesn't know what that is, there were a lot of emails going back and forth and exchanged, basically, Leslie said, talking about how he's on like an all jerky diet or like, or maybe he didn't even say that, but like how he's loves jerky. He has all the, like, tons and tons of pounds of it, how it's better when it's dehydrated or, like, all of these weird things then saying you should try the jerky. And weird enough to where it's like. And that's like, if for some reason right now I was like, on a jerky diet or on the master cleanser or something, and I'm emailing 15 of my friends, like, frustrating them, you got to try the jerky. You got to figure this out. And then writing back, like, hey, when can I get some of that jerky? It's just. Just like, such a weird conversation to have. Especially when you layer in where he talks about how, you know not only the, like amount and the weight of the jerky, but then where it's being held in the, like, deep freezer. This and that. I had brought that up to my sister last week when I first heard about. I'm like, when we were talking about the cannibalism things, and I was like, well, have you heard about this whole jerky thing? And I showed her some of the threads and she pushed back a little bit. Not. And just kind of devil's advocate, we always, like, do this push, pull thing. And she had said, she's like, well, what if he was on this, like, weird fad diet or crash diet for his health where all he was going to eat is jerky? And so he's saying, it needs to be dehydrated. I am going to travel with it. I am going to do this. Is it as nefarious as it looks? But then I pushed back and I said, well, what about, like, hey, we're going to walk John or whatever his name is, some jerky, walk the jerky across the street to him where you normally be like, bring him the jerky. I don't know, like, things like that. To where it's like, could it be explained away or is the writing on the wall?

[B]

And then just to add to that, you know, the chef that was making the jerky that was sending recipes that was on the island was Francis Derby.

[A]

Who's that?

[B]

Francis Derby owns the restaurant Cannibal.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Wait, there's a restaurant called Cannibal and cooking. Is it actual cannibalism? No, it can't be. That'd be illegal.

[B]

But is it so tongue in cheek? Did they think they were so smart that they could go that far?

[A]

Well, and here there's a saying I all, you know, I hate the cliche sayings, but in a lot of the Cases I cover something that I often say, where there's smoke, there's fire. So a lot of these things individually could potentially be explained away. I think everybody in the world agrees there was going on, there was underage going on, and that there was, like, this huge group of predators, women and men. I don't think anybody's trying to argue that fact, but when you bring in the cannibalism, the babies, the terminations, the trap doors, which I have on here as a note I want to get to as well, all the sulfuric acid, one or two of those. Those potentially could be explained away. But where there's smoke, there's fire. And when there are that many nuanced things and weird things and outlandish things, it's like, at what point do you say, like, I can't be devil's advocate and explain this away? Like, there's too much of it. But then it's like, are you teetering on conspiracy? But I think now a lot of people are realizing, no, not that. Some of the. I don't know if I fully believe the Wayfarer stuff out there. I'm curious to know your take on that. But. But I think there is a lot of truth that people are starting to catch on to. Pizza Gate is a perfect example that first started to your point in, like, the 2010s and where people rumblings. We heard a lot about it in 2020. I mean, it was everywhere. Everybody was talking about Pizzagate, and then it kind of died off. People were labeled conspiracy theorists. And, like, there's no way there's truth to this. I have never seen so many emails where they are talking about pizza back and forth than when I started looking at these files. And the argument could. The argument can't even be that we don't live in a day and age of text messaging back then, because texting came around in 2006, 2007, where it's like, thanks for the pizza party last night. Hey, did you order the pizza for so and so? Hey, I got this pizza. What toppings do you like? Like, there's so much to. Where it makes you step back and be like, were we not crazy? Is this real? Is this how they were ordering people people?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I think that if someone were gonna play devil's advocate, they would probably counter it with drugs.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

That to me would be like the. If you want to take my pattern, I'm presenting to you, make it a pattern of drug use.

[A]

Okay. Still, like, if they go to the island and they're all doing like GHB and all the party drugs and like sex parties and all that. Thanks for the pizza party. But also if it's a drug party, do you really need to thank them for the drug part? And like, you don't need Epstein to be your drug dealer if you're a billionaire. I can get GHB tomor tomorrow if I want it. Like, or today. You know, like you don't need that kind of access for those types of things. You don't need people in that position for any kind of drug.

[B]

Right. And why do you need so many doctors? Yeah, why do you need so many psychiatrists? Like Virginia said in her book when she was telling people what was happening and they would just give her medications.

[A]

Today's episode of Serial Lessly is sponsored by Simply Safe. Now I want to talk to you for a second about something that I think we all can agree on, that we won't want. And that is peace of mind. For me, that really starts with knowing that my home and my loved ones are safe. And that's also why so many Americans trust Simplisafe. It's a security system that is designed to protect what matters the most. Now here's what's interesting. Traditional security systems, they only react after somebody has already broken in, right? But Simplisafe's active guard outdoor protection, it can actually help prevent break ins before they even happen. Their AI powered cameras are backed by live professional monitoring agents. Agents who can see the suspicious activity in real time, then speak directly to the intruders, activate the spotlights, even contact police, all before somebody gets inside. I have Simplisafe not only at my studio and my office space, but also my house. I just trust it so much. It has an app that is so user friendly, it's just like the best ever. And I can like make sure it's armed from my app, I can look at the cameras from my app, I can see the live feed. It just gives me so much sense of like, like security. And there are also no long term contracts or cancellation fees, which I love. Monitoring plans start at around a dollar a day. Plus you get a 60 day satisfaction guarantee or your money back. Plus SimpliSafe has been named best home security system by US News and World Report five years in a row. Also ranked number one in customer service by Newsweek and USA Today. So don't wait. Protect your home today and enjoy 50% off a new SimpliSafe system them with professional [e-mail] seriously, that's simplisafe.com serial there's no safe like simply safe. Today's episode is also sponsored by Unreal. Okay, I have a quick question for you. What was your favorite candy when you were growing up? The one that you would trade for at Halloween with your siblings once you like got home and like went through the pillowcase or that you would like beg your parents to buy you at the checkout line at the grocery store? For me it was always Kit Kats and M and M. I still love MMs. I don't know why too. I can eat them. Like I can eat such a large amount and I like suck on them till they turn like weird and white. I mean, you know, if you know, you know. But I digress. I want you to imagine getting that nostalgic chocolate fix but made with simple real ingredients and way less sugar because that's exactly what Unreal is doing. They are reinventing nostalgic chocolate classics so you can still get that mind blowing taste and that comfort just without all of the overly processed stuff as well. Their dark chocolate coconut bars, dark chocolate peanut butter cups and dark chocolate caramel peanut nougat bars are fan favorites among everybody. And the difference really comes down to two things. I mean incredible taste and better for you ingredients. Unreal is on a mission to un junk the world starting with chocolate. So everything that they make is fair trade certified gluten free, non GMO though and made without artificial preservatives, flavors or colors. And almost all of their products are vegan too. I love their peanut butter cups, especially the dark chocolate ones. I actually have them stocked here at the office. We have a huge jar. And I love their take on the M's. They are so good. You can find Unreal anywhere. Cravings hit including Whole Foods, Target, Costco and other grocery stores. And as a special offer for our listeners, unrealsnacks.com serial to get $2 off a bag of Unreal. Terms and conditions apply. Do you believe that she took her own life?

[B]

Yeah, very much.

[A]

You do? I know a lot of people don't believe that I it could because she had outright said if I die it would never be self inflicted. But it seems as though she was

[B]

struggling because of me. Knowing Tara Palmeri very well, the independent journalist who went on a year or more with Virginia confronting people and caught on tape. I mean I think it was Apple produced it something. It's called unbroken I think or broken. The moment they got to Juan's house, who let them in? Who I think he was probably quite naive to the seriousness of all of this at that point. They got into his house, they sit down to talk to him and the FBI calls his phone, it's on. Oh, wow, it's on audio. So it's. I believe Virginia is. I believe she ended her life because her relationship to people, it was very bad. She was losing her children, her marriage was going downhill, she was losing her mind because of the complex.

[A]

How could you not? Ptsd, how could you not?

[B]

And she was one of the favorites. Right. She was blonde and blue eyed, which goes into what, the strategy of this. He obsessed over this bloodline and making the perfect person. And that's in the files, that's in emails. Right. He had all these labs done, all this stuff done. That's all accessible to the world. We can all look that up right now. So I think Virginia herself, because I think she was in a horrible, horrible place and couldn't take it anymore and everyone was gaslighting her. No one would help. And she settled and financially settled against abusers, but if she named them, then that money would have been taken from her kids and her family. So she was stuck. She was stuck. No one believed her. And then she kept seeing all these abusers continue to own restaurants and be in politics and lawyers and seeing their

[A]

face on her TV every single day. That would be enough to drive somebody insane.

[B]

Yeah. And I mean, she dies and then we finally denounce Prince Anne Andrew.

[A]

Right, right, right. And I know we talked about this before we recorded what is it? Sarah Ferguson is it for. Yeah, Fergie. Was that his first wife or his previous wife? Hold on. Yeah, hold on.

[B]

I don't remember.

[A]

I don't know. But where there was like where they were sending photos of their children too. Again, not necessarily outright meaning anything, but like being like, here's a picture of the girls. And.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So one of the other things. Before you continue down your list of the things that you have learned, I have it here in my red pen circle. Is it true that there was a trap door in his house on the island that released to the sea?

[B]

Yeah, there's a image of it.

[A]

Okay. In the files that's real.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And again, what it means, who knows? And if you haven't seen this image, I'm going to kind of just describe it. It's dark. It looks like it's just in the floorboard of a room. A little square probably, what, 24 by 24? Maybe 2ft by 2ft.

[B]

Maybe a little bigger.

[A]

Maybe a little bit bigger. Just in the Floorboards and you open it and it's not like to a reef or anything like or with a ladder. It's just too darkness to the sea. So let's play both sides of this. Of course, a lot of the allegations naturally are that was a way to dispose of people things. You're done, it's off into the sea. It's an easy way. You don't have to ever leave the house. You're never going to get caught being seen in public. You're already in the house and it's a way to dispose of things. Other people are saying, oh no, he lived on an island. It's a door to the sea, however. And we don't know exactly where the location is, I don't think. But I'm just going to say if I ever had a mansion on an island on the water, I probably would do like an overwater hut like the Maldives or something like that. I don't know that I would have a trap door in my dining room that just releases to the bottom of the ocean. And like that feels a little weird. But I'm not a billionaire, so I don't know. But like that's weird, right?

[B]

Everything's so weird. I mean, there was one image and they took it down and I don't know why. It's the image of a kitchen and 3st and then what looks like a bone or bone marrow could very well be bone marrow.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It was up last week, they took it down this week.

[A]

So who is taking it down?

[B]

The doj, The Department of Justice. But.

[A]

And why, if they released everything, why are you now taking it back?

[B]

My assumption is that they thought Americans and the world were dumber than we are. And people are analyzing these images knowing we can turn images into videos, knowing that there are hidden links in these images. Like in one image, you click on the link, you right click, there's a little blue dot and you right click on it and it takes you to Roblox.

[A]

Don't get me started on Roblox.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Why?

[B]

I don't know what that means. Like, yeah, I mean we know that's how predators playground. Yeah, but why is there an image of like a hallway in Jeffrey Epstein's house?

[A]

Let me ask you about this image I have seen. Because people also will use AI to complete images that have been redacted and things like that, which I don't really like. I can't subscribe to that. Maybe it's real, maybe it's not. But there was a conspiracy a couple weeks ago. When these all first started getting released, floating around that. One of the images that was redacted showed hands and, I believe, legs of a little girl who people are suggesting was JonBenet Ramsey.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do you. Does that go to conspiracy for you? I. People were, like, comparing her hands the time she went missing when. The time he became, like, into power and influence, how he loved little girls with blonde hair, beautiful eyes, how she was in the pageant circuit. I know there's also that photo where people think Ghislaine was, like, in the crowd next to her. And I don't think that's ever been proven to be her. But does that. Is that just because everybody's so desperate for an answer of what happened to JonBenet that they're now trying to, like, tie it together?

[B]

No, I think it's because the timing literally matches up and the images. There's one image where she's on his shoulders back or shoulders, and the hair lines up perfectly.

[A]

And she. I think it's like the same bows, too, or the same bow on her dress or something like that.

[B]

They did overlays, right? Wouldn't surprise me. I mean, I guess that's the thing, is it wouldn't surprise me, but then would that.

[A]

That would take it a step further, arguing that either her parents were complicit in all this, which I don't. I don't think personally that that is the case. I don't think that they would have, like, passed JonBenet to Epstein. I don't know. Possibly. But I don't believe that. Or that somehow he was involved in the abduction.

[B]

Well. Or she went for a photo shoot. Right. I mean, we.

[A]

Oh. And that he had nothing to do with her disappearance in Murray murder.

[B]

Or maybe he. He did. Maybe the parents were like, sure, go. Go for a photo shoot. You're in the pageant industry. Whatever. You know, Oprah's plane was on his island 12 times. Plus, she was. She's not on the plane. She wasn't flying the plane. Yeah. They were bringing children over because he was.

[A]

To people who didn't know his rap sheet, even post 20, whatever it was 2012 or whenever it was. But even pre. Like, if you didn't know the darkness that was going on or what his extracurriculars were, were. He was this very powerful billionaire in New York City with this huge elite townhome. So it's like, yeah, if you're a family and you're getting your kids into modeling and this billionaire. If the Kardashians or somebody come up to you. And they're like, oh my God, come over and play at Northwest birthday party. Come to. What was Michael Jackson's Island Neverland. Like if you don't know the sinister intentions or activities behind it, then you probably are easily impressed by that and willing to go to those places. And then maybe that's when you start to get sucked in or maybe you don't, maybe you never do. But I think that there is this whole like he's kind of cloaked in this veil of protection or he was because people are so star eyed when it comes to influence and power and wealth.

[B]

And he did though. I mean the, the heads of talent agents were his friends.

[A]

Isn't that. Didn't one agent just Wasserman or what?

[B]

People are leaving but they.

[A]

Oh, but he hasn't letting him stay?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. Because it's his agent. Right.

[B]

The board like voted and they're letting him stay. Which is wild to me. But genuinely. Yeah, you would like Lisa Phillips describes it, one of the survivors, he would name the agencies. You know, what kind of career do you want? What do you want to be? How famous you want to be. I can give you that. Wow. And he did for a lot of people. I mean the Hadid sisters are listed in those emails.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

Bella Hadid that he helped promote their careers. How? They're really, they're really rich.

[A]

I think Muhammad is. Their father is very, very rich. He's like a huge like real estate gu.

[B]

A lot of what Epstein did was move money to make people more famous, to get them gigs, to get them jobs.

[A]

And now these people that he has helped or crossed paths with aren't speaking obviously, unless they're getting caught. So I know there were. What else not only was in the files, but I know there. You want to talk about the Sasha of it all.

[B]

Yeah, the, the Sasha Riley. He came out and he was the one who made direct allegations against Donald Trump.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And people are really going back and forth with the truth of the nature of this. I very much believe his story. The way he tells it. It's very linear.

[A]

And what's his story? For anybody who's unfamiliar, can you just break it down?

[B]

This is where it gets even more dark.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Okay. So you take out the, the letter T and you put an N in stuff.

[A]

Hold on, wait. Take. Oh, like in Epstein?

[B]

No, no, in. In the word stuff. If we take out the T and we put in an N. So that's when you are someone and it's when you're someone or maybe just like having sex and you kill them.

[A]

Oh, yeah, because there are those kinds of films, the S word type of films out there, and people like watching those. It reminds me too, of. I can't remember the movie now, but yeah, where there's, like, this whole, like, market for those kinds of movies.

[B]

So Sasha claims. And he has. He has receipts.

[A]

What kind of receipts?

[B]

He has timelines. He has pictures. He's in hiding now.

[A]

He is.

[B]

He claims that an aspect of it was that they were being videotaped. Now, again, as Pam Bondi was caught on a hot mic saying, we have 12,000 videotapes of just kids.

[A]

I didn't know that.

[B]

Yes. She was caught in a restaurant saying that those have not been shown.

[A]

Why aren't those in the files?

[B]

Todd Holdman, the attorney, said, we will not be showing any of the killings or the murders.

[A]

Okay, so you're confirming that there are killings and murders?

[B]

Yes. This is how stupid this administration is.

[A]

So I get why they wouldn't release it. If it's underage, it's minors. You. You're not going to.

[B]

But acknowledge it. If you saw someone die, who was it and who did it?

[A]

Right.

[B]

So Sasha openly says, and he was military, comes from a military family, was in the military, that he killed a little girl. That they made him. That he shot her.

[A]

That Sasha did.

[B]

Yeah, that he was also assaulting them. Um, and then they made him do that. And then another little girl wanted to end her life so badly that another little girl shot her for her. And then he said another little girl wanted to get off so bad she just jumped in the water and swam. She was never seen again.

[A]

So these are all Sasha's allegations?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Nothing has been proven.

[B]

Nothing has been.

[A]

And he's now in hiding.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe there's. Maybe there's investigations. I don't really know because they wouldn't talk about open investigations. Although Pam Bondi, in the hearing yesterday, even as she said there are no investigations at the end, said, we have open investing investigation of who?

[A]

Well, isn't her. And correct me if I'm wrong, but what's her. Her name was floating around a lot in these emails. Right. And her husband. Correct.

[B]

She was the attorney in Florida with all of these people for decades.

[A]

So that's where you're saying, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but from what I'm gathering, what I'm hearing is that it's the administration as a collective, for the most part of why there has not Been movement, forward movement in holding people accountable. With the release of this.

[B]

It's bigger than Watergate. It's a massive cover up of our. The biggest one of our lifetime.

[A]

Do you think that it will ever be fully exposed?

[B]

Yes. Because of other countries.

[A]

Because other countries.

[B]

And I think we'll get some whistleblowers and I think people will stop being scared. But I personally, I mean the size of Kash Patel's eyeballs since he took that job, they have gotten bigger and bigger and bigger. I mean these people are realizing what they're in and I think I'm assuming they're being blackmailed or they're just. It's a cult like mentality.

[A]

And I'm gonna pull this up. Cause I did have a couple questions that I had logged down here as well that I was like, I know I need to like ask her about these. Um, what do you think about Wayfair? Do you think it's conspiracy or real?

[B]

I think it could very much be real.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because of the people involved.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because I think honestly I think a lot of them were around like, look what I can do to my website with my billionaire company.

[A]

Well, and the truth of the matter is Wayfair is like a third party hosting website where. But it's all dropship anyway. And so it's like you use it as a platform to send stuff out. That's why it's the same stuff on Jos and main Wayfair, you know, all the different things. It's just a third party platform for dropship.

[B]

Is the biggest crime we have in this entire world. Wayfair is a worldwide company. It makes. Take this whole case out of. It makes very much perfect sense that there are going to be avenues. We find out about ways that you are picking kids.

[A]

Why do you think that all of the files were released at once? Was it to like overwhelm everybody? Was it done strategically that way? Or is it because they granted the release that that's just the way it worked out?

[B]

I think there are a lot more files to come. A lot. But I think there was a dump. Definitely a dump. And it was to. To desensitize us, to make. There's just so much going on that it's overwhelming that if we can't process it, it. It's. It's psychological warfare. And that's why I'm so proud of the people who are continuing to fight through this and talk about it. Because, you know, we kind of go on these trends, right. Everybody was like anti ice and that Kind of faded. Now we've got this. Is this going to fade? We have to keep pushing the really important things because that's. This is CIA tactics, psychological warfare, overwhelm them, make them feel helplessness, confuse them and then distract them.

[A]

And what do you think is going to happen with Ghislaine? Obviously in her. The latest thing we see.

[B]

Saw.

[A]

If you didn't see it, it's unnerving to watch. But she took the Fifth for everything. Refused to speak, refused to speak on anything to avoid self incrimination and probably in my opinion, because she's trying to work out a sweet little deal for herself, whether it's less time transfer, whatever it may be. What do you think will happen with her?

[B]

That's where I think Trump is losing numbers, he's losing supporters and that's what he cares the most about. Right. You have Republicans, very Republicans that were very in support of Trump who are seeing the files and saying that Maxwell, these girls and is just as guilty and she should. Someone said she should be hung. Someone said she should go back to maximum security prison.

[A]

But some think she may get a pardon.

[B]

I don't think so.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because I think it's gonna, it's now taking out Trump's house too. And he's a man of strategy. Strategy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But he. She's not registered as a sex offender.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They took that off to move her back. I don't, I can't see them moving her to a higher level of security. And then you have that horrible interview with her and Todd Blanche where he was giving her all of these leading questions to say that everyone was innocent.

[A]

Well, here's my question. If all of these files just got dumped and if I'm Bill Gates or I'm whomever, and I'm realizing that I'm getting exposed right now, which by the way, the whole Bill Gates of it all with like the STD and trying to like slip his wife the medication so that she wouldn't catch it, is so foul and disgusting.

[B]

And did you see her answer?

[A]

I saw and she was. Well, I saw an interview and she was like distraught and I felt awful. My heart broke for her.

[B]

She said, I'm so glad I got away from him when I did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because she knew. Yeah.

[A]

Which for those of you who don't know, there was an email. It was in the email, right? Yeah. There was an email exchange where Bill Gates had gone to some sort of sex party. He did whatever contracted something or I don't know if it's confirmed that he contracted it, or he thought he contracted it. Okay. And he didn't want his wife to also get it then when they were together. So he tried to get medication that he could slip to her without her knowing so that she wouldn't get it and then know that he was being unfaithful. So my question with Ghislaine, my point was, if I'm Bill Gates or if I'm any of these people being exposed and named in these files and. And I'm powerful enough because I run with that crowd at the very top. Why is nobody taking Alain? Because she seems like a liability, right? Like, if she decides to speak to protect herself, she knows everything. She knows just as much as Epstein, if she was the gatekeeper of all of it. So how come nobody has taken her out yet?

[B]

It's a really good question. I mean, she's important, but she's also important to proving people's claims should things go awry.

[A]

But that's what's so crazy is I feel like she is the one person, person who could validate or invalidate all of this. And she's just sitting there in prison and refuses to speak, which is infuriating.

[B]

But that's why they are redacting perpetrators names, because if I redact your name, then you're not going to tell anyone that my name's in there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they're holding her in place, kind of waiting to use her. I think she is a tool that they'll use when needed, depending on what direction. And I honestly don't think that the Trump administration thought it was going to get this far. Yeah, I mean, he campaigned on, I'm going to release them all. And then he said it's all a hoax. Then he said, you need to get over it. I think they just. I think they're really surprised that the public kept moving this forward.

[A]

They're not going to let it go. The public is like a dog with a bone. They are not going to let it go. And like we've been saying, look, this isn't a political podcast, guys. I get accused of being left, I get accused of being right. Nobody knows where I stand. We're not a political podcast. But like we talked about earlier, it's a moment in time where everyone is collectively uniting against the dark. Darkness, whoever that may be. I'm not suggesting I know who it is. Exactly. I mean, I obviously know it's Epstein, but it's disheartening. It really is. To think that this is like. And that's like the reality too. And I think that's why so many people do get overwhelmed when they're looking into it and they just stop for a minute. Or speaking for myself at least, when I would almost feel like, oh my God, these accusations are so unhinged and unbelievable. There's no way there's people like this in the world. And then you keep looking and looking and you're like, it's real. And like knowing that you live in a world where there is that much darkness and cruelty is very scary to think about.

[B]

And the psychological manipulation of grooming, I mean this is, this comes down to little girls who have dreams. And one of the emails was, I hurt her so badly. She prayed to Jesus. And then the response was, next time dress up like Jesus. These are babies.

[A]

It's sick.

[B]

Babies being forced to have babies.

[A]

Babies. And then they take those babies away.

[B]

And that's all that is true. That is in justice.gov documentation.

[A]

So where, what, what do we do from here? What's the next step? What's going to happen? What can we expect? Obviously there's certain ones now that are being unredacted. I know you are working with Congress as well on it. So what's happening?

[B]

I think we continue to show patterns to Congress of the files. Congress people don't, like, a lot of Congress aren't that smart. Right? Like they're not, they're not analytical, they're not pattern aware, they'. They're not scientists. Right. They get funding and everyone does. You know, there's 500 of them. They don't really know what they're looking for. And a lot of them have even gone on their socials and said, please help me, please tell me what to look for. But on both sides, everyone, I want to see, I want to see the patterns because we need to be able

[A]

to charge people, like identify what is going on here. And then have the foreign movement.

[B]

Yeah, I mean we have the, the Zorro Ranch people have been trying to, to send cadaver dogs out to Zorro Ranch for so long.

[A]

Why haven't they?

[B]

Because they just keep getting met with denials and then they appeal it and maybe we're at a place finally where it'll work.

[A]

Who owns the land currently? Is it in the Epstein estate?

[B]

I think it was. I don't think anyone knows. I don't think anyone knows now. Okay. It was his though.

[A]

And technically there's not enough evidence to just pull a search warrant or is there?

[B]

Well, that's what they, I think yesterday or the day before, I think that's what they started to push forward.

[A]

So what happened? Gonna put on my conspiracy tin foil hat for a minute. What happens if they go to that ranch, search that property and find a multitude of remains? Everybody's worst nightmare is like, it's a reality.

[B]

Yeah. And then maybe, maybe the FBI, maybe this would be more the CIA, because they're not as corrupt.

[A]

And do you think that the CIA is working on this?

[B]

Well, yeah, there's definitely international components that they have to. Right. And they're going to be the most quiet.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

They're not quiet. They. They don't wear. They don't hide behind masks. Right. They go and make, make an arrest. It's on tv. People see who their faces. They're known entities. I think we are as, as a people, as a movement, able to push this forward to prosecutions. Now Zora Ranch has incinerators on it.

[A]

No. Casual. Well, could that be ru. Because it's a farm. Yeah.

[B]

DNA. Yeah.

[A]

But at what level of degree of like heat does that not become viable anymore? I don't know.

[B]

And how many years?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And.

[A]

And how contaminated? How cross contaminated. That's. Yeah, that's a whole separate issue.

[B]

But we do have missing, missing people.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We have.

[A]

If there are remains recovered, then you can do that.

[B]

We have a few missing names who are still missing around the same timelines are noted on the flight logs to Epstein Island. I want to say it's Kathy Roberts. I can't. I need to think of the name. But she's noted to be on the flight written in hand. And again, we don't know if these people were actually on the flights, but she went missing that year and she still hasn't been found. Wow. So, you know, there's, there's enough like.

[A]

Yeah, there's a lot.

[B]

We can step back and see the forest for the trees. Like, this is. This is the worst thing we've ever seen in American history.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But now we have to actually start picking apart the trees. Yeah.

[A]

Well, thank you so much for joining today and sharing all this. I feel like there's probably going to be a part two in the future because there's so much to go on. Which for those of you listening and watching, let me know in the comments if you want to do a part two. We can definitely have Dr. Leslie back to break it all down for us. Let us know. Know too if you do, what questions you have for Dr. Leslie. And we can compile all of those. I'll compile all of those questions and we can Just go through all of them. So I know it's obviously very dark content and it's not easy. So thank you for stomaching it and being a part of it and champing it. Championing it forward. Championing it forward. I can't talk. And thanks for being on.

[B]

My pleasure. After years having to work with sex offenders, being able to fight for survivors is like, you don't have to pay me to do it.

[A]

Yeah, well, and let everybody know, where can they find you and keep up with you as you continue to research all of this.

[B]

I'm gonna start compiling it on my YouTube. Okay. Because I need to do that also, because it's, like, not as attacked by the algorithm, but TikTok, it's Dr. Leslie, and Instagram, it's Dr. Leslie.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know, and then if you have tips, if you have files, if you have patterns that you are seeing, send me, because I have direct lines into Congress and I'm helping them.

[A]

Fantastic.

[B]

And there are literally encampments, all D.C. that are like, taking our tips, taking our patterns, running them through themselves. So we're, you know, we're always vetting everything and then literally texting Congress people and senators and people are there. We're all connected at this point because we have to be.

[A]

Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

[B]

Thanks for having me.