← Intentionally Disturbing
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- [00:00]
Dr. Leslie
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
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- [01:05]
Ryan Reynolds
Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile now.
- [01:07]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I was looking for fun ways to.
- [01:08]
Ryan Reynolds
Tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back.
- [01:14]
Howie Mandel
So I thought it would be fun.
- [01:16]
Ryan Reynolds
If we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal, so there.
- [01:22]
Howie Mandel
Goes my big idea for the commercial.
- [01:23]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [02:13]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [03:05]
Dr. Leslie
JLO glow Welcome to Intentionally Disturbing. Today's episode is a little delayed. My bad, because we talk a lot about Sean Combs and Diddy. But what's interesting is that me and Cameron Roberts, this badass attorney, actually guessed how the trial was going to go and we were sponsored. So listen in for our details. But also some extremely disturbing moments that Cameron has endured as one of the most badass attorneys. And trigger warning. It's pretty graphic. I hope you enjoy the episode. Welcome to intentionally disturbing. I'm Dr. Leslie and today I get to speak with Cameron Simone Roberts, one of the most badass attorneys I've ever met. And you should just be writing her name down right now because you will need to hire her when you have any kind of civil lawsuit with her amazing criminal background. But Cameron has an amazing educational background and experiential background. And we are going to go through not just the Sean Combs case, but also some riveting insights on other cases and probably one of the most disturbing cases I've ever heard of that she shares. And yeah, this isn't for kids because we're talking about rape. Thanks for doing this.
- [04:35]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Absolutely. No, thanks for having me. I'm so glad to be able to do this and makes me be able to bring out a white suit. I never touch them anyways because I'm like a child. It's like if I have ketchup three days ago, it will be on the suit somehow.
- [04:47]
Dr. Leslie
I don't own anything white. I can't.
- [04:50]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I know.
- [04:51]
Dr. Leslie
Even like my body makeup. My makeup. I would get my makeup on like.
- [04:55]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Touch your face once. You're like, I swear to God I didn't touch my face.
- [05:00]
Dr. Leslie
I like it because last time we talked you were wearing pink. But Now I got the pink. So we have, like, the alternative.
- [05:06]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yeah, I know. I was like. I was like, all right, I'm not fucking wearing red or blue after this weekend. I gotta go. Like neutral tones.
- [05:13]
Dr. Leslie
Yes. So we are recording today on June 23rd. Is that it? Yeah, June 23rd, after our president bombed Iran. So we are coming off quite a heightened, emotional weekend.
- [05:28]
Cameron Simone Roberts
We are very charged.
- [05:30]
Dr. Leslie
But what I find, I found so interesting was, like, we go through such intensities with politics and everything, and then we're just jumping into, like, the trial of Sean Combs is what's probably going to be largely on the news today.
- [05:49]
Cameron Simone Roberts
You go into, like, state of warfare. And then we're right back to the celebrity.
- [05:53]
Dr. Leslie
Yes. Which is kind of like my life, but. Okay, I'm really pumped to talk. I want to talk to you about Sean Combs case and just about your career in general. But let's introduce you to everyone. So my introduction of you is that you are a completely badass personal injury attorney. Is that you think that's a little bond?
- [06:18]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I mean, I appreciate that. I'll take it for sure. No, I am a personal injury attorney for sure.
- [06:25]
Dr. Leslie
But I think the power with you is that women are starting to take over law more and more. And we are bringing me, not as an attorney, but as an expert. I think we bring something so powerful that the old school male presentation can't add to our clients and to the jury to explaining emotions. Everything that has been so nuanced in the Sean Combs trial.
- [06:55]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Absolutely, absolutely. And I started off as a district attorney, so I did criminal prosecution. And that was one of the best things that I did do because I got into the trials right away, and I was down in Middle Georgia and South Georgia area. So I got to hop into a lot of heavier hitting trials very early on, opposed to Atlanta, where I'm from in the city. And it definitely is. It's totally evolving. And I believe it started evolving, I mean, before I became a lawyer, but when I got jumped into it doing the trials, you could tell women were placed on certain trials that we. That otherwise men previously were placed on, just because it would have they thought a woman could present better, an emotional component to it or something that would add a little bit of reality and clarity to it that a man might not otherwise be able to present.
- [07:48]
Dr. Leslie
I think it's so true. And then you've got to think about. And of course, you're always thinking about this, but the jury.
- [07:54]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh, yes. Well, everything we do is with the jury. And I'll tell you, I know there was one case in particular that comes to mind and I had just moved to South Georgia. Now keep in mind I'm an Atlanta girl. Okay. But you know, my father's from Kentucky. We have a farm up there. So I kind of have a little bit of background in both worlds. But the first case, and I won't say the town for protection regions, but I went to South Georgia town and there was a trial and there was a woman that was older and her husband and her had divorced. She had money, you know, she was well off and she had just gotten married to a younger man. Not crazy younger, but, you know, younger definitely. People would see and say, he's younger. And tragically, she had a horrible stroke just shortly thereafter and it paralyzed her. And the only thing she could move was her eyes. Like she would have to communicate like, you know, blink one for yes, two for no kind of thing. Oh my God, yes. And then her husband, her new husband, I mean, it wasn't maybe a month after they got married this happened and he started raping her. And we did, we found out by her home health nurse because she was noticing like irritations, rashes, discharge. That was not normal down there. Basically indicative of irritations. And she wasn't really able to communicate it, you know, like we would be able to communicate like we're doing right now. But she was able to communicate with the eyes and the at home health care nurse was able to work with her and able to, you know, under. They had a language they could understand, you know, with using the blinking of the eyes to communicate. And you know, at the end of the trial, I think honestly the most. That's disturbing in of itself, but the most extremely disturbing.
- [09:48]
Dr. Leslie
That.
- [09:48]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Extremely disturbing.
- [09:50]
Dr. Leslie
I can't wait to hear the end here.
- [09:52]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yes, the most. And you're talking about this comes back to the jurors. The most disturbing, disturbing part of it was, you know, they tell you in law school, you need to talk to the jurors afterwards, ask them, you know, like, after the trial's over, what do you think? What, you know, how did you feel about this? And it just helps you learn how people, how you present to people, what people want to hear, what interests them. And, you know, it helps you be a better lawyer. And one of the jurors asked me, can you rape your wife? I was like, I was like, you can rape anything that says no or can't say no, dogs, whatever. You know, all that.
- [10:27]
Dr. Leslie
This question came after.
- [10:30]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yeah, after. So they had already say he, he, they did not convict him. And I just wonder if that was why.
- [10:41]
Dr. Leslie
Oh, my word.
- [10:43]
Cameron Simone Roberts
It was. So now this guy is one of the most. Yeah, it was eye opening. I was like, what? Oh, my gosh.
- [10:52]
Dr. Leslie
That. I know that your average juror doesn't understand what rape is or that, you.
- [10:58]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Know, wife isn't property or that, you know, if she. Just because she maybe can't say no in the usual way that we communicate doesn't mean he was very well aware of the eye blinking and trying to create this kind of language, you know, and obviously that home health nurse, you know, was talking about irritations and discharge and things like that that were indicative of issues. So he should have seen that too, you know, and thought, maybe this hurts her. Do I need to talk to somebody about this? Maybe I should talk to her home health nurse. Is this is something that even should be occurring? You know, I mean, who's to say what's going on? But she's paralyzed, so, you know, oh, my gosh.
- [11:40]
Dr. Leslie
So what? Yeah, when you approached that case, what. What was your philosophy? What laws came to play? How did you go about it?
- [11:49]
Cameron Simone Roberts
So it basically we had to talk about communication and, you know, how you bring in an expert that being the nurse, a lot of times, just like personal injury, you bring in someone in the medical field that can attest to the injuries. And, you know, the big question was, can she say no? And it's in. The home health nurse testified that, you know, there was. They kind of created a form of communication through the eye blinking mouth wasn't, you know, was caused paralyzed by the stroke as well. It was pretty much like here down. But she was able to hear and communicate with her eyes by the form of asking yes, no questions, essentially. And also, you know, it was also the approach of when someone is in this position, wouldn't you ask and look further and go to meetings with the doctors and say, hey, what is appropriate behavior? Is this going to hurt this person? You know, is there a way to, you know, do something else? Or is there a way to. Is this just off the table now? I mean, questions should have been asked. You know, precautions should have been taken before just going about it. And I think he knew that. I think that's common sense.
- [12:58]
Dr. Leslie
Oh, my word, what a disgusting sexual offender.
- [13:03]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I know, but that. But going back to what you were saying about the jurors, that was the most disturbing part about it is I was like completely shocked by that question. I just had never really thought about that question before because it was so obvious to me. But I guess it goes back to people maybe not so obvious. So the jurors are 100%, you know, who you're relying upon. They do make the case in a.
- [13:27]
Dr. Leslie
Lot of ways, essentially, which is wild to me because. And I'm curious about how you're trained in law school, but in psychology, with being a forensic expert, I am told to explain everything at the third grade reading level because your average juror will often lie with a third grade reading level. And to me, that is incredibly disheartening. But you have to, right? You have to talk to them at the lowest common denominator or everything's going to go over their heads.
- [14:00]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Well, definitely. And you want to definitely, because you never know their backgrounds. And they do send out affidavits and things like that beforehand that they're supposed to tell about, you know, where they came from, if they're married, things, you know, what grade level they graduated or what degree they may have, if any, things like that. And you, everybody's going to be across the board. You know, you're going to have people that are doctors and you're going to have people that graduate high school and are mechanics and make more money than doctors. You know, it's just you have a little bit of everything. And I think the, one of the hardest parts is we have to describe the law, but then we have to describe it to them, how you think through it and how it applies. So it's almost like you have to take your law school education and somehow in a clear, concise, very quick way, explain it to them in a way you think they'll understand. I like to use examples, just kind of hypotheticals and things like that. And that's why it's, it's good to do. The closings is really where you kind of explain the law to them in the opening. You kind of give them the story, hey, this is what we expect you to see today. This is what we expect to be presented today. And kind of just give them like a summary preview. So they kind of, as the evidence and as a testimony proceeds, they know kind of what to look for, what to pick up on. And they have, you know, their doc, their journal, so they can write notes on, hey, about this and things like that. And at the end in your closing is when you explain the law and then you explain how it applies. So then you can take the example of, oh, hey, his testimony was this. This is the law for this and this is how we think it should be applied. You know, so it's easier at the end, once you give them a summary of what the case is about, they see the evidence and testimony and at the end you can explain the law in the closing and explain like using the example they just saw of how they should interpret it and how we, you know, how we are presenting the case.
- [15:55]
Dr. Leslie
How do you feel about in the Sean Combs trial that the jury is not sequestered, that they're going home and they're probably on social media? I mean we're human beings, right? We're going to cheat. What do you think about that?
- [16:10]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I don't know how it's possible. I don't know how it could be done. I just don't know how it could be done. I mean, we sequester jurors in a very small towns where half of the older people probably don't even have Internet or wi fi at their house. And you know, but they may go to the local social hall and chit chat and things like that. But, you know, it's human nature to talk. And I just think it's difficult in general to be a celebrity and have a true pure criminal proceeding, you know, in positive way and in the negative way, however you look at it. Because when you're a celebrity, for example, you know, if you get a DUI and maybe it's completely unrelated to what matters at hand and if you are a normal criminal that everybody doesn't know about you or say criminal, but a normal person that committed a crime, allegedly, allegedly, that nobody, allegedly, that nobody know, you know, nobody's heard about your past and nobody's been following you with the camera for 20 years, you know, they may not know about the DUI and so your lawyers would get it suppressed in a, in a pretrial motion because it may not be related to the crime at hand. Whereas a celebrity, it's all over the news and you know, it's, you can't suppress it, everybody knows about it anyways. But sequestering the jury is really the only way that we have to try to protect them from talking, protect them from social media and the way that we are these days, in the day of social media and the day of technology and this IT boom, like we're in like the IT boom, as if the Industrial revolution, you know, that's our boom and it's everywhere. And now with AI, I mean, I was just looking for stuff over the weekend and it's like, you know, fake planes here you have to research everything and be like, where did this come from? And, and you know, who knows if the juror is going to do that, who knows if they're just going to look at something and take it for gospel as it stands and not do any, you know, research. They're not supposed to be doing that at all. But you know, it's, it's. I don't understand how you can have a fair trial without sequestering a jury. Now even if you sequester them, there's still chances, there's still issues, they still come up all the time, but at least there's some layer of protection without sequestering them at all. I mean, I just don't understand how this could be a fair trial at all.
- [18:25]
Dr. Leslie
It's, it's pretty wild. I mean, you know, as we followed along, basically the juror, the jury has had to watch violent pornography for 28 days. I don't know what day we're on. That's like pretty much been the majority of what they have been succumbed to or what they have succumbed to. I feel really bad for them. I mean, I do hear that they are gasping. Some people look physically sick watching these videos. And then these videos are probably, you know, cut and edited in a way that it's really just those hard hitting moments for them to see, I'm sure.
- [19:01]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Because they have to limit it. I mean, think of how many years that's they're talking about here and how many people. I mean this is, we're talking like years and years of camera footage and recordings and things they could use. So it's definitely probably limited to the most, you know, the highest concentrated something that the, that the state feels they would prove. You know, what their allegations they've set forth. I'll tell you one example that I think it's difficult to watch over and over and over again these things is, you know, we had a case and the facts of it really aren't that interesting. I mean it's horrible. The guy beat his wife and she died. Beat her to death essentially. But as a da, if you present a case, you have to go see the autopsy. And the reason being is, is that you're supposed to. When you have the, the, the doctor that does the autopsy on the stand, you know, you've actually seen it yourself so you can explain it better. You've seen the process and it's just not so foreign to you. You want to be able to get out the information that's needed from this person to prove the elements that is required of that, you know, that allegation. And so this lady died by blunt for and to the head. And in an autopsy, I don't know if you're familiar, but when you. They, like, will literally peel your skin. I do. I'm doing a motion here for those listening and not seeing. But you look. They do. Like a slit below your chin, under.
- [20:25]
Dr. Leslie
The chin, across, like the upper neck. Yeah.
- [20:28]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yes. And they literally roll your face off your face. It's horrible to watch. And your face is still like a face, but, like skinless. It's just. It's horrible to watch. But the family of the deceased woman wanted to stay. And I. It. They feel like, oh, we're supporting mom and everything, but, you know, from the DA's office, our victim advocates advise them not to. And they were like, listen, you know, you can come right back in after this part, but this part is not something you want to see. You know, this is something you. You don't need to see. And they wanted to stay. And the girl, you know, one of the daughters, like, ran out and threw up, you know, and I don't blame you.
- [21:04]
Dr. Leslie
I can imagine.
- [21:04]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I can't even imagine. And I get why they wanted to stay, but that's going back to the P. Diddy. It's like, you know, when you're watching things over and over and over and over again, it's just. To the boyfriend who can even think clearly because you're just so. You feel like. You feel like you need therapy after it, you know?
- [21:26]
Dr. Leslie
Yes. You're like, I think they should.
- [21:27]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Someone help me process this.
- [21:30]
Dr. Leslie
I think they should be given therapy. Like, yes, the government should pay for it. Because it's. I mean, I imagine what you're seeing is urinating in her mouth. You're seeing gang banging. You're seeing these women vomit and then being forced back into sex in these 75 degree rooms with 1800 bottles of baby oil. You're seeing probably blood, I would imagine. How do you not bleed after so much rape?
- [21:54]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh, 100%.
- [21:55]
Dr. Leslie
And then you're seeing Sean Combs, what, Dressed as a Muslim in the corner, jacking off.
- [21:59]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I. I know, I know. I. And you don't know where these people's backgrounds are. So, I mean, you know, if, if. Let's say someone was a cop, which I'm sure he would have been taken out. He would have been struck from the jury 100%. I mean, sure, but, you know, someone like, per se, a cop, they would otherwise have probably seen that before, so it wouldn't be so disturbing to them. I mean, of course it's disturbing, but it wouldn't Be shocking, I guess is a better word for that. And in this situation, I mean, you know, I'm imagining like a teacher or, you know, somebody that maybe hasn't otherwise been exposed to this in their life. And I know you coming from your background and me coming from the DA background and having seen these autopsies, you know, it's not as, it's still horrific, but it's not as surprising. So I just can't imagine the level of shock that these, these jurors are experiencing right now.
- [22:50]
Dr. Leslie
But from your legal perspective, how, how does, how do you think the case is going? How do you think this, this very, I mean, this is a very, very highly sexual case, but these are very governmental accusations, I guess you could say, right? How do you think they're linking, you know, this, this chronic masturbator to rico, to sexual trafficking? Yes, that's a good label because they haven't.
- [23:20]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Can you label ex boyfriends that way?
- [23:25]
Dr. Leslie
It falls under paraphilias. It is a fetish. Well, actually, I guess if you're on a lot of ecstasy, you're going to be a chronic masturbator.
- [23:33]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I mean, everybody's been in college, right?
- [23:38]
Dr. Leslie
We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back.
- [23:43]
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- [27:32]
Dr. Leslie
But, like, how do you think it's going? I mean, it feels like we're on the last week. The government said. Or, I'm sorry, the defense said they may only need a couple more days. They're not going to call any witnesses. Sean Combs is not going to take the stand. So they're just going to close up shop, lose and appeal.
- [27:49]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Exactly. I feel like they're rushing it. I mean, think about it. We just came for the ysl, and look how long that take. My gosh. I mean, that took forever. And. And it was just like. I felt like we all were just relentlessly pulled into it, especially in Atlanta. It took over all of the court system. And if you had a hearing somewhere else, you had to go through, like, this building to go to that building, to go to this building because there are people outside for this. And it was crazy for like a year plus. And, and so that was so drawn out. And the amount of details and duration that all of these details and all of these incidents and victims and alleged crimes have been occurring, I just don't understand how you can put that into a true trial. So honestly, at this point without sequestering them and without. And pushing all the evidence quickly. I just don't understand how that they would actually prove the case unless they're just going for a straight appeal. They're like, let's just get it over with. We feel like we've already tripped up on a couple of things. Let's just get this part over with. Apply for a mistrial or go ahead for an appeal and try to hit it a different, different light. And sometimes that happens. You know, sometimes it's like, let's not waste the time because, you know, just like we were mentioning the YSL after, you know, nine months, everyone even, you know, the jurors aside, but everyone else was like, all right, we're sick of hearing about this trial. Like, just get to the end already. You know, you get.
- [29:10]
Dr. Leslie
Gene, give us a synopsis of YSL for listeners.
- [29:17]
Cameron Simone Roberts
You mean, like, just like a summary of the case? Well, I mean, it was.
- [29:21]
Dr. Leslie
I mean.
- [29:23]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Well, I mean, it's just based. I don't want to go into too much detail with it, because I know there is an appeal going and all these things like that. But I mean, basically, you know, there was. There was. He was. It was game racketeering and there's violence that occurred with the gang, alleged gang associated with him. There was some evidence, you know, that was brought forth, of course, but there incriminated evidence against him. But then there was, you know, some witnesses that kind of changed their testimony. Testimony. And just to kind of explain why, I we were bringing this up as describing how it went so long. It was like every, you know, couple of weeks, there was an alleged mistrial or alleged this. And, you know, they would put forth a motion. And I don't blame them that there was a lot of things that went down in that case that they should have, you know, brought up that and had an actual conversation. A motion hearing is what we call it is when you. It's not in front of the jury and it's before the judge and it's just. Or you pretty much argue legal theory and case law and things like that in order to, you know, proceed with whether something should be brought up or not. What we would say is if it's more prejudicial than probative, meaning that if the evidence is more likely to incriminate the defendant rather than the evidence is used to, you know, maybe show innocence or something else that they're trying to prove as part of their legal theory or legal strategy. And with that one, you know, they had a lot of motions brought up. They were talking about ex parte, meaning like the, you know, conversations that weren't supposed to be had with the judge alone with just one of the lawyers or one of the parties. Everybody's supposed to be, you know, have in the same room so that everybody has the opportunity to defend themselves or bring up, you know, their side of the argument, etc. And so, you know, it just went on for forever. And that case, how that case proceeded, it's like every time there was something like, for example, you brought up a sequestering, there was some type of little, you know, bump in the road or something that they thought would otherwise hurt the case. They brought it up by a motion hearing with the judge or, you know, they had. They would. Would pause the trial, jurors go home, and they would have this conversation to try to decide what was better, you know, what was more in tune with our laws here and the laws that applied to the case so that they didn't, you know, unduly prejudice the jury to the information that the, you know, the information was not meant to just make him look bad, but it was. Had some sort of legal value, I guess. And so that's very different than how this trial is going. This trial is like speed, you know, full speed ahead. So, you know, one has to wonder if they're if there's a plan, I'm sure there is a game plan, as you know, to appeal it from either end. You know, whatever ends up happening, you know, that may be what they're trying to do is just get over with this portion of it so they can then move to the next step. Maybe they feel like it's too far gone in this way and just get it over with. So then it opens up the door to appeal it. Or maybe they think there's, you know, enough evidence on one side that it's. They don't really care about what we would call the hiccups or something that might otherwise unduly prejudice, you know, the defendant. But it is rather quick considering the evidence. So it is interesting to see what the plan is here.
- [32:45]
Dr. Leslie
It is quick and it is very split. It's very split if you look at social media. And so we've got a group of social media people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about. And then we have a group that actually does. Right. So the professionals, the lawyers, the experts that are speaking about this, who actually understand the nuances of rico, even Tony Busby, who has been doing posts about this, they're still very split in if this has really been a good enough display of the evidence, if they've really done this well enough.
- [33:21]
Cameron Simone Roberts
And that's another thing as it could be. That's the problem is if the state has not presented it in a fair way, you know, and let's say that they feel like that, you know, the evidence hasn't been presented on behalf of the state as well as it could be, and let's say they find, you know, that he is. They want, they don't want to convict him, then you're kind of. There's not much really you can do after that. Now if he is convicted and they feel like the state, you know, and they appeal it, then, you know, the state has an opportunity to present additional evidence depending upon if it's a mistrial and they restart as it. If it's a new trial or if it's just an appeal or whatever ends up turning up. But it's hard if the state doesn't present enough evidence, then it's kind of hard to go back on that.
- [34:11]
Dr. Leslie
Yeah. And everyone, you hear everyone say the feds never lose, but they could quite possibly lose because of the rash nature of it.
- [34:23]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh, definitely. And that may be a strategy. You know, they may be trying to rush it because maybe they feel like some things were decided earlier on on how the trial was to proceed. Maybe there was motions heard that suppressed certain evidence they didn't agree with, and they thought, well, you know, if we can't do this and we can't do that, let's just get to the end of it and then. Or, you know, try to apply for a mistrial if we see something, you know, appear that would otherwise arise for a mistrial to be alleged or wait till we get to an appeal and handle it that way. You know, sometimes they don't want to jade the jury and the general public too much if they feel like it's already been, you know, harmed so much from the beginning that it's not going to go how they want it to go.
- [35:04]
Dr. Leslie
Right. I mean, but you bring up such a good point that there are so many secret legal strategies that have played out before, playing out now and years into the future that people do not know and they could not possibly know or comprehend unless they are a lawyer or on the legal team.
- [35:27]
Cameron Simone Roberts
That's true. That's very true. So, I mean, I think we'll find out. Of course, we find out at the end. But I mean, depending by the rush state of this, I just can't imagine there's not a plan like part two plan, because with the amount of evidence that's gone into this and in the amount of time and victims and I mean, this. This has been going on for years, allegedly. So, you know, I mean, this is. This has been going on for years. So the amount of evidence that they have is exponential with the amount of time that has been put into this. So I just can't imagine that there's not a, like a part two that's already in the thoughts and minds of the lawyers that's going to happen. You know, there's got to be something that they haven't moved, you know, announced they moved into yet.
- [36:15]
Dr. Leslie
Right. I think that's such an important part for the world to hear, you know, like, just don't, don't hang your hat on what this little, I don't know, seven weeks will be.
- [36:26]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yeah. And that might be another reason with a sequestering. Maybe they think, hey, before the trial started, there was so much, you know, dirty laundry aired and so many allegations and things said that they don't think that it could be any worse. You know, so maybe they think, hey, maybe there's a chance it could be, you know, things are said to better him. Or maybe he said, I don't care if they're sequestered. You know, everything I have is already out there for the world to hear. So forget about it. Let's just move forward. There could be so many thoughts to that, but there is so many ways that you can do a mistrial and appeal. And they're so, you know, if a judge, it could even happen before the trial even started. Like if there was a motion that the judge granted where there was evidence suppressed that they felt like it was not lawfully supposed to be suppressed, then the whole trial, they, they would have to go forward with the whole trial and then at the end appeal it based on that pretrial motion. So it could be something as small as that. Literally it's, it's insane step and you have to reset. So it's kind of wild how that is.
- [37:31]
Dr. Leslie
But I cannot hear about him jacking off anymore.
- [37:36]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Like, oh my God. I know, it's too much.
- [37:39]
Dr. Leslie
I've never seen somebody like, you know, we see these cases of extreme sexual behavior, right? I mean, I've worked cannibalism, you know, necrophilia, but never has it been on such a, a public platform. I think people are saying to themselves, wow, I didn't know somebody could be that, that sexually disturbed.
- [38:03]
Cameron Simone Roberts
And to be around for so long and have such a powerful influence for so long over so many people, you know, involved in so many other very, very famous and very successful other celebrities and musicians, especially their careers. Everything he's had to do with it, politicians, I mean, everything he has been around for so long and, and involved in so much that it just seems like this web intertwined web that keeps growing and growing without end. I mean, where is the end?
- [38:37]
Dr. Leslie
Well, and it does feel like they have capped, they have capped it in this trial. They have had the opportunity to bring in very powerful, well known people and they've chosen not to. Now again, they've fucked up because names have gotten out there. Everybody seems to think that trial is this perfect, almost like spaceship scene when really, if you can explain. I've had to go home. I couldn't testify until the next day because a lawyer dropped their binder and they needed the whole day to reorganize their binder of papers.
- [39:16]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
- [39:18]
Dr. Leslie
But it's not the government trial. All of these big things, they're not beautifully put together. You know, they are, I don't know how you describe it. Like they are difficult to organize and they are simple at times too.
- [39:38]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh definitely. And I would just, I mean, I think because especially with most people's knowledge of trials is from the big trials. I mean you know, I'm a, I'm a 90s kid. So we're all like O.J. simpson, I mean the whole world, you know, every day of it. And you know, all these different celebrity trials. So those ones are broadcasted and I feel like that's most people's experience of trials is watching them broadcasted and seeing, you know, it's a celebrity version, you know, that some able to be on some major network, that everyone can follow it all the way through. And so it almost is broadening. It breathes this image that it's a movie, I guess, in a way, you know, because that's how, that's how they see it. They're not sitting in the courtroom, they're watching it from their tv. So you feel like it's coming in as if a movie and, and then you of course, watch movies about it and things like that. But, you know, I would urge people, because most courtrooms are open, you know, most, most of the trials, unless it's sealed for some particular reason, is otherwise open. And if people are truly interested, I would highly suggest going and just sitting in a courtroom during a normal, you know, run of the mill trial that's happening in their county and just see how it actually goes. Because once you're there, you can truly feel what it's like and see what it's like because, you know, they might, oh, we're going to commercial. But that's when they show the transition and that's when the lawyers flipping through the papers and trying to organize exhibits and things like that. And that's when the real, you know, trial is happening. And it's not, you know, it could be very simple and it can be very complex. But you know, at the end of the day, these are people that went to the same, you know, undergrad law school path or just, you know, undergrad to taking the bar exam in California and you know, the normal path that everybody else that does this kind of work has been on. And you know, they might other they might have just picked up a popular defendant or popular client that got them this attention, this media attention. But that doesn't necessarily change the way they practice or, you know, gives them this all of a sudden celebrity glow and they just, you know, morph into this different person. I mean, they're still a lawyer and they still have to abide by everything. And it's very. The evidence code and how we can present evidence and testimony is laid out very specific. And then of course, where there's room for interpretation, that's when you get into case law and you find things that have judges have already ordered and granted that things are able to be brought out in that area and then that gives you the precedent to be able to then follow suit and bring that out. And then sometimes you just try some completely new evidence and see how it happens. And you're creating the case law. So. And you know, may not work for you, but the people behind you, it may work for them. But it's kind of crazy how it all comes about. But they, with the trial thing, it's very, it's honestly it's a lot more simple and a lot more normal than a lot of people think it is. And you know, it's particular how you have to present it and put it together. But lawyers are just people, you know, I mean we describe, we prepare for our legal theories and trials are very live, you know what I mean? So like unlike a movie where you can say cut, let's go back and do it again, you know, or oops, I said this this way and I didn't mean to say that, you know, if they bring out in pretrial motions that certain evidence can't come out and then maybe a witness, you talk to your witness and you know, we're not going to go into this. And then they bring it up, which happens, they don't always listen to you, then, oh, mistrial, you know. And so it's very particular going through all the testimony and evidence and it has to be in accordance with the evidence code and all of the pre trial motions that everybody agreed on, hey, this is what can be presented, this is what can't. And you don't never know what witnesses sometimes are going to say. I mean, you know, I've, I've gotten had witnesses on the stand that, you know, they just literally they're just normal and da, da, da, da, da, da, Normal in conversation, meet with a whole legal team, fine. They get on the stand and they just freeze. Nothing. I mean crickets. And you're like, and then you know, you're like, should we do we need a break here?
- [44:01]
Dr. Leslie
Yeah.
- [44:02]
Cameron Simone Roberts
So you never know what's going to happen. And then a lawyer with the cross examination, I mean, you know, that's not your witness. You don't really know what they're going to say. So they might fire back and say something and you just have to fly by the seat of your pants. So it's a very like very normal John Smith, Jane Doe, very, you know, girl next door kind of situation. And I would urge people if they are interested in that or if they do ever, you know, if they're ever picked for a jury to go see a trial in a courtroom first so that they can see how it actually goes down in real life.
- [44:32]
Dr. Leslie
And do you mean it would be easy to go to, like, mental health court? It would be easy to go to superior court. It would be really cool. It's really cool to go to federal buildings.
- [44:43]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Right.
- [44:44]
Dr. Leslie
Just because you have that higher level. It's a higher bar. It's one. It's prettier. The cafeterias are better.
- [44:53]
Cameron Simone Roberts
But there's a.
- [44:54]
Dr. Leslie
Higher level of respect for the building and the environment that you're in.
- [44:58]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh, definitely. I mean, you know, and that's the thing is, like, some of the state court courtrooms, you know, they might be. Especially in Georgia, you know, in some of the smaller towns, they're just like, you know, smaller and almost look like. Get the church feel to it and the pews, and it's not as scary, but sometimes you walk into a federal building and it's very, you know, formal, and everything is just so. And. And it makes you nervous, you know, it makes you kind of like, okay, well, I have to sit this way and do this. And you're thinking about that maybe, and not thinking so much about what's happening in the trial. That's another thing is, you know, being able to keep their interest and focus on what you're presenting so that they don't. We're humans. We get distracted, you know, I mean, we can't sit there and absorb everything for 12 hours straight. We have to have a mental, you know, reset.
- [45:47]
Dr. Leslie
When I testified in federal court in Los Angeles, I. I was like, wow, this is kind of the respectable, fancy side of it, you know, coming out of, like, dependency and family court. I was like, wow, this is really nice. Everyone's wearing, like, Todd's loafers. This is. I can get used.
- [46:08]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I know. There's definitely a different vibe depending on where it's at. For sure. For sure.
- [46:14]
Dr. Leslie
My blazer. I mean, I was like, okay, we're not going to be wearing Zara. We're wearing Smythe today.
- [46:17]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Like, I really. Yeah. And you'll see people come in, you know, and they're in a suit and blazer, and some people come in and they're just, you know, like they went to Sunday school. So it's, you know, it's a total. It's a totally different vibe depending upon where you're at. And I think that affects the trial, too. You know, if they feel comfortable if the jurors feel comfortable where they're at so that they can properly focus, you know, or do they feel like they're sitting here in this rigid atmosphere and everybody's looking at them and they're more nervous about the perception of them than understanding and focused on what is actually happening, you know, what's being presented in front of them. You mentioned divorce earlier. Family court. Speaking of disturbing, I think, you know, honestly, that might like, like I've had divorces that are more disturbing than some criminal cases.
- [47:05]
Dr. Leslie
So does that fall under like your most. Is that your most disturbing experience in divorce court rather than blinking and rape?
- [47:13]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I would say no, that, I mean.
- [47:15]
Dr. Leslie
That we can't laugh at it, but it's just the insanity.
- [47:18]
Cameron Simone Roberts
It is, it is. That's what it is. It's not funny, but it's like almost like, oh my gosh, you feel like you're in the twilight zone or, you know, just went through the looking glass. You're like, huh? But you know, it takes you back a minute. You're like, wait a minute, wait a minute. What? But I don't know, I think as a whole, divorces are probably more disturbing than criminal. I swear to God they are. Because most divorces are criminal. I will say there is a for sure criminal component if you get down to the nitty gritty of it. But no, I think if it's going to be like the most disturbing, I still would stick with criminal, you know, because those, those just keep going and going and going and there's probably a divorce attached to some of those. Criminal too. Goes both ways.
- [48:03]
Dr. Leslie
Oh, definitely. Oops. Commercial time.
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- [51:56]
Dr. Leslie
Goodbye. Okay, the ethical question. I'm really curious about your answer. Yes. And the ethical question. And yes, the smearing of, you know, clients. But lawyers talking about clients openly or the other side.
- [52:16]
Cameron Simone Roberts
And that really shouldn't happen. I mean, you know, it depends. When you have some, a celebrity, though, there is information about them that's already public knowledge. So if it's public knowledge, then it can be brought out. You know, that's essentially kind of like the, the rule to it. But if it's something that is otherwise protected that, you know, hasn't been released or otherwise, you know, you got from a witness information or evidence that maybe your client had that would not otherwise have been out in the public, then you can certainly protect that. And you don't have to talk about certain things about that. But if it's. That's the problem with celebrities trials is, you know, all their dirty laundry, like we were talking about earlier, is air. So, you know, if it's public knowledge, it's public knowledge, you know, now I don't think it's right to really talk about it, you know what I mean? But I'm extra cautious. You know, we do personal injury and I kind of apply, or I definitely apply, I guess my ways of when I was doing criminal law to personal injury, and I do that across the board because I want to protect the client and the trial as much as possible because I don't like doing trials again, I want to be one and done with them. So I try to make sure that I am, you know, abiding by everything is if something is said to somebody and, you know, something transpires from it, maybe it wasn't that bad of an act itself, but, you know, kind of domino affected turned into something else. Then they could come back and say, oh, a mistrial, appeal this, that and the other. So I want to do the best for my client. I want to be straight and narrow across the board and, you know, protect the case. And as much as I can, because I don't want to put them through that again mainly or myself, really. Neither one of us want to go through it again. So, you know, we try to protect the evidence as best as possible so that it's not, you know, the jury hears it. There's no allegations of, you know, a conflict here or mistrial here, and you can just present the evidence and be done with it. That protects it for your client as well, too. You know, like with personal injury. Right now we've just gone through tort reform in Georgia and, you know, they. Some of the things they talked about is bifurcation of trial, allowing trials to be split where pretty much the plaintiff is, which would be, you know, the part the victim in a criminal case would be on the stand for two parts of the trial to talk about the same facts essentially, but with different parts of it. And there's, you know, people are mad about that because it's like, why put them through it again? Just ask what needs to be asked and be done with it. You know, we don't want to further victimize this person from what they've already been through. So it's kind of one of those situations. I like to keep it as protected as possible because I like to protect the client and I don't want them to have to go through this again. So I try not to deal with. I mean, some people like to use. Use the smear campaign tactic to maybe they, especially a celebrity, they can influence the public opinion and, you know, then the public works its magic and kind of tends to influence the jury, especially throughout sequestered. So but for me, I like to go with a straight and narrow. I like to do it the right way. I like to protect the information. I want to present it to the jury in the most fair way so that a fair trial is heard and that my client is. Doesn't have to do this again.
- [55:42]
Dr. Leslie
Which is so lovely. And I wish, I so wish more lawyers would be like that. As a psychologist, you know, it just, it pains me, like, as I've been covering the Sean Combs case, I mean, there was one pretty brutal day where they really, I think it was Cassie. They really ripped her up in cross. And I made a video that night and I said a few things like, you know, Cassie should be offered breaks, her legal team or at least the government, because I know they don't really have legal teams with them per se in this case, but somebody should be giving her breaks. She should have support in the room. She should feel the confidence to ask For a break, you're not in prison. You can get down off the stand. Right? And so I made this video. And then the next day, I thought it was quite funny. They did all of what I suggested.
- [56:38]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Nice. Good. I'm glad. I wish. I wish they had psychologists that talked to, you know, everybody as a pretrial, you know, exercise, like, hey, everybody needs to know this. You know, as a witness, These are your rights. You can do this. You can do this. And, like, as I prep my client for depositions, we do a lot of depositions with personal injury law. And as I prep them for that, I tell my client all the time, if you need a break, you know, if they just went through back surgery and they're hurting, I said, it's okay. You know, you can say, I need to stand up. I need to walk around for a minute. I need to use the restroom. I need to just breathe. Because I got hounded with questions, and now I can't even think clearly. And that also protects the testimony and keeps it authentic and real. And it's not just an emotional reaction to, you know, being waterboarded for four hours. And then they're like, whatever you want me to. To say, I'll say whatever you want. Get me out of this room. You know, because that happens. The pressure builds up and builds up, and people are people. And if they're not used to being in this kind of environment, they need to have the breaks they have to have. They have to know that they can, you know, take a breather, that they can walk around, they can use the restroom, things like that. I think it protects the testimony. It keeps the trial authentic because they're responding, you know, not from being harassed and being, you know, feeling like they've just been absolutely interrogated for, you know, four hours. They're answering truthfully and not just out of emotional response to that situation.
- [58:10]
Dr. Leslie
Those are cases where I love to come on as a consultant and just help support the individuals as they go through it, you know, or if I'm.
- [58:21]
Cameron Simone Roberts
You're supposed to have victim advocates. You know, victim advocates are supposed to kind of serve in that role.
- [58:26]
Dr. Leslie
Right? And they do, right? Some firms do, but they have to pay them.
- [58:31]
Cameron Simone Roberts
This is true. This is true. Now, the state definitely does. But, you know, how much. How much attention they're getting depends on the victim advocates. Definitely. Like, I know when I was a da, our victim advocate office was great. So, you know, they worked with us regularly on things, and, you know, they have their own standards. They're held to that. They have to, you know, make the victim aware of their rights in certain ways and things like we just talked about. But a lot of times they don't. I mean, I can't even tell you how many cases I've had where the victim advocate didn't even, hasn't even communicated with them.
- [59:09]
Dr. Leslie
It's wild. It's wild to me. And with the Sean Combs case, it's just next level torture on a public platform. And I don't feel like a lot of these women have been protected and.
- [59:22]
Cameron Simone Roberts
And they're probably scared. You know, that's one of the biggest things you have with, with witnesses and with victims is they're scared to say anything because you know, what's going to happen afterwards, you know, what's, you know, what's going to happen to them? Are they going to be, you know, publicly shamed and trolled for the rest of their life? You know, we live in the era of social media and Internet and AI and you know, they can take a phrase or a mistake, Ms. You know, misspeaking of words and change it into God knows what. So, you know, I don't blame them. They're terrified and especially when it's, you know, broadcasted.
- [59:58]
Dr. Leslie
And I say women, but men too. I mean, a lot of these escorts, you know, we're given immunity. But what does that really mean when it comes to just your day to day life?
- [60:06]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yeah, you might have immunity from using something against you or whatever, but immunity from what you mean, you know, am I going to have like Secret Service protection follow me around? Are you obviously me. Are you offering me, you know, witness protection program? Like what is. Define that because basically like, we're not going to use it against you to go after this or, you know, otherwise, you know, implicate you in a crime. Okay, thanks. I'm a victim, you know, but like, how are you going to protect me? And I think that goes through a lot of people's minds where they withhold maybe all of the testimony or all of the stories because they think, okay, if I say this, what's going to happen next? And unless someone is, you know, unless they've been provided and explained to what all protections are there for them. You know, one, we're all human. You know, there's, we're all human nature.
- [60:56]
Dr. Leslie
To think that people are actually testifying to the whole truth and nothing but the truth is, is flabbergasting to me.
- [61:06]
Cameron Simone Roberts
And you're in. At the end of the day, you know, law, everything is subjective because what is your truth Your truth may be different than my truth, and, you know, what I perceive as wrong may be different than what you perceive as wrong. So, you know, it really is up to the lawyer in that situation to ask the right questions and take the last response heard and, you know, find a way to try to connect with them so that they're, you know, answering things and getting the story out there. You know, they don't necessarily know how to say it or what to say or what's. Look at, you know, what they're looking for. I'm sure they've been prepped and everything. But what is the truth? You know, everybody is all perspective. It's subjective in a lot of ways.
- [61:50]
Dr. Leslie
Right? And then it's just handed to a jury. I mean, it's just such a wild. A wild field you're in.
- [61:56]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I. I know, and it's the most. It is literally the, like, most original, antiquated, like back to our founding fathers, you know what I mean? Like, it has been the, like, tried and true jury of your peers, you know, But, I mean, what else is there? We're all open for ideas. You know, you can do. You can do a bench hearing. Then you have this one judge, you know, and that's one, essentially one juror, you know, so it's. It's trying to find another alternative that would be otherwise fair to try to get, you know, try. Try to get the story out and protect the victim and, you know, he. Protect the defendant until he's, you know, proven guilty, if he is, and on from there. But we're all open for ideas. Jury of the peers has been around for a while.
- [62:40]
Dr. Leslie
Okay, I got some questions for you for our intentionally disturbing lightning round. If you could commit a crime and get away with it, what would you do?
- [62:55]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Depends on the day for sure. I mean, honestly, I'm gonna be, like, boring on this one because I just got back from my honeymoon with my husband. He's Colombian. We just got back from Europe, and we ate and drank, you know, all the good food, the ham on the this, the that. I'm like, I just want to bring food home. I just want to bring this home. I want to bring him on. I want to bring the gazpacho. And I'm like, why is this a crime? I get it. I mean, I truly get it. They're protecting, you know, exposure to diseases and viruses and things like that, because God knows what's in it. But I'm like, can I just have my very, very salted ham on that probably is so salted there's nothing in it into. It's boring. But I swear, it's like every time. I. I never forget my. My parents. My dad's a pilot, and we used to go to the Bahamas when we were little and they threw out my hermit crabs in customs. I was so mad. I'd already bought them shells that looked like little princesses and stuff. It was a whole thing.
- [63:49]
Dr. Leslie
I mean, I can understand, like, when I go through. I go to Mexico a lot, like, monthly when I go through, and they take things away that I need for my kids on the plane. Like, they take her slime, and I'm like, do you know how important slime is to a child on a flight?
- [64:05]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yes, yes. You're like, I need things that keep her busy. Are you gonna keep her busy? Because you just took away my busy thing.
- [64:12]
Dr. Leslie
Unless you're gonna put a Target or a Walmart in the airport with reasonable prices, I think we need to change these laws.
- [64:18]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yes, yes, yes, yes. I mean, I get the whole purpose of going through the protection and T is A purposes, but, like, give us something on the other side. I don't need a Pandora, okay? There's something else that could be there.
- [64:30]
Dr. Leslie
Yeah. I mean, you can test her slime for uranium. That is fine. But let us just bring it through.
- [64:35]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yeah. Yes. All the way. All the way.
- [64:38]
Dr. Leslie
Okay, next question. If you had to die by death penalty, how would you want to go?
- [64:46]
Cameron Simone Roberts
You know, it's crazy because Georgia still does. Well, Georgia still has a death penalty, and, you know, there are options to pick. And honestly, I'd heard this recently because the Attorney General in Georgia has to be present for it. It's not like they happen here every day. Everyone's like, oh, Georgia. But, you know, they do happen. Yes. Whatever your opinion of that is. But when, you know, the Attorney General has to be present, and this guy did it recently, and it was his choice, and I was like, you know what? That's. That's kind of baller. I kind of. I kind of would do that, too. And it was death by firing squad. I was like, if you're gonna go down, go down. You know what I'm saying? I want to go down with my boots on, Doc Holliday style.
- [65:27]
Dr. Leslie
How. Okay, can you. To somebody who's never witnessed death by firing squad, like, what's the setup? Is it like Hannibal Lecter going down the hallway and everybody's Handmaid's tail light? Like, what does it look like?
- [65:40]
Cameron Simone Roberts
No, it is literally like officers that are, like, several of them out there and it's like. Like, you know, three, two, one, go. And the guy is over here, and just bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Just like you would think. Just like it's been for years, Decades, thousands, hundreds of years.
- [65:55]
Dr. Leslie
Is it, like, where do the shots primarily land? Are they core shots? Are they in the head? Are they, like. Is there, like, one distinct kill shot?
- [66:04]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Well, I mean, there are. It's usually here, here. I mean, any target, I say here, here. I'm on the radio, too, so I. Chest, you know, chest and head definitely are kill shots. And I think that's probably primarily where they're aiming. Hitting major organs, making it happen quick. Not so that it's a painful, suffering thing. I'm sure that they've been advised to try to hit the major organs, the major things that would be as quick and painless as possible. But I thought, you know what? That is antiquated. But at the same time, you hear all these horror stories of not getting enough medicine if they do it intravenously and maybe giving too much and their body reacts in a certain way, and it's a slower, more painful death. I'm like, just shoot me. I guess. Just get it over with.
- [66:53]
Dr. Leslie
I love it. I wish we could add one, like, a slow heroin drip or something.
- [66:59]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm like, what about some wine and, you know, like. Yeah, let's make this, like, a full experience here.
- [67:07]
Dr. Leslie
Yeah. Okay. But I guess they don't deserve it, right? Okay.
- [67:13]
Cameron Simone Roberts
They get their last meal now. They get their last meal, so that's.
- [67:17]
Dr. Leslie
So lovely for these mass murderers and serial killers.
- [67:19]
Cameron Simone Roberts
It's true. It's true. That's true. They're like, I don't know. I've been eating, you know, stew for the past 10 years, so.
- [67:27]
Dr. Leslie
Oh, I used to eat in the inmate cafe at the Los Angeles County Jail.
- [67:33]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh, how's that?
- [67:34]
Dr. Leslie
I def. Well, because a lot of inmates are chefs, right? And cooks, and, you know, they all come from different trades. But I definitely would stay away from the foods that I couldn't tell if there were bodily fluids in them. Like, I would definitely go for, like, a salad without dressing.
- [67:50]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yeah. Oh, yes. Like, avoid the liquid. So, like, if it's meatloaf, zero gravy. Gravy is not happening.
- [67:59]
Dr. Leslie
And just never be on anyone's bad side when you're on the inside.
- [68:05]
Cameron Simone Roberts
No.
- [68:06]
Dr. Leslie
Okay. One. One question I have to ask. If you could change a law, what would it be and why.
- [68:15]
Cameron Simone Roberts
So many? Honestly, I'm gonna have to go to tort reform. We just, in Georgia went through that, and I do personal injury. So that's something that's been hot in the topic on our local government. What that basically means, there's several components and layers to it, but one part in particular, without going into this excruciatingly lengthy detail about it, would be something we call the collateral source rule. Basically, that means it protects the injured party, the one that was the victim to the wreck, that wasn't their fault, if they have health insurance, from presenting that health insurance to the jury. Because now that we've gone through tort reform and the governor's ruled the way he has, and it's gone through the House, Senate, and, you know, he's signed it into effect that basically, if you have health insurance and you've been in a wreck and it's not your fault, then you can present to the jury what the health insurance covered on the bills. And as a personal injury lawyer, we use the medical bills as a way of evaluating the putting a number on an injury. You know, so there's different ways to evaluate it. And the foundational component is the medical bills is what we call, like, the special damages. So, you know, your medical bills is a way that the doctors can quantify your injuries to put a number on it, and then you add in pain and suffering and lost wages and other things on it. But now, as of a few like. Like, as. Like a few months ago, if you have health insurance, then you can present that. Then the defense can require you to then present that to the jury. And it's almost, in effect, penalizing you for having health insurance. Because if you don't have health insurance, then you'll get the full value. You know, you're more likely to get the full value of your injuries. It sucks for the little man, you know, it really does. We try to bring out everything we can to protect, protect them and make sure that however they were affected by the case or however they're affected by the incident that, you know, gave cause for the injury, that they are compensated to the best of our ability. But that is definitely one law I would change. It's not fair.
- [70:24]
Dr. Leslie
Yeah, I would change it, too. I mean, whenever I do my evaluations and assessments for the mental health needs going forward, I never use health insurance because it's completely unstable. You, Kaiser limits you. They're constantly switching therapists. They're bringing in newbies who aren't good enough to take care of very, very severe conditions. There is no consistency in the longevity of mental health insurance for mental health care. And I Will, there's so many articles I will promote cash pay for lawsuits because we need to cover someone no matter what happens with this climate and insurance.
- [71:04]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Absolutely. And I'm glad you mentioned that about the mental health. I mean that's a huge thing that is also considered an injury. I mean you have the physical injury, but there is mental health. And I have several cases that require that. And like, you know, especially with children cases with children, they are a lot more traumatized by certain things that happen to them than an adult, maybe in a lot of ways. And you know, maybe children recover a lot easier from injuries because they, there's like rubber, you know, they're, they have the good, the good, you know, metabolism and the good energy and they're stronger and everything and they're, you know, in a lot of ways but the mental health is affected. And so, you know, I always, if there's a child or even, you know, anybody that's gone through an injury and they have a mental health component to it, I always get, try to get that out with them and try to understand that from the beginning because you know, like you said, it's mental health. Injury can be stronger than a physical injury and it can last a lifetime.
- [72:03]
Dr. Leslie
Oops, commercial time.
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- [75:58]
Dr. Leslie
Right. You know, I have a case right now of an individual who was severely abused by a religious institution, by a leader. And what happened was he. He dropped out of school because of the abuse. Well, he has very, very severe learning disorders and dyslexia. So he went 50, 60 years of his life without knowing his actual condition. And that was caused because of that abuse he endured when he was a small child. So in my mind, yes, they are accountable for ruining this guy's life and any potential gain he could have had from it because no one ever diagnosed him properly. This case I'm on right now, it just makes me livid. But Catholic priests. Can you just not fuck your altar boys? Just keep it in your pants, okay?
- [76:46]
Cameron Simone Roberts
It's like, how long has this been happening? Forever. I know, I know. Well, I mean, and it's sad because a lot of religious institutions, you know, it's like they use it as a means to control the masses. And it's like they use it exactly what. It's. It's like they take advantage of people coming in a very vulnerable state. And, you know, not. I mean, I appreciate and tolerate and respect every religion, but, you know, when you come in there in a vulnerable state, it's the people that are, you know, in these certain organizations that are taking advantage. They're. They're taking their humanism and whatever is going on in their head and issues they have, and, you know, they're projecting it on this more vulnerable person. And when people come, you know, to their church or their synagogue or whatever, you know, religion they practice, if they practice one at all, then they're coming in a vulnerable state. They're looking for help, and it's just like, easy target.
- [77:41]
Dr. Leslie
Yes, 100%. And then you think about the opposite of, you know, people, pedophiles, people who are disordered, seek out positions of authority in order to have access to victims.
- [77:54]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh, they do. They do.
- [77:55]
Dr. Leslie
I mean, it makes me mad. Yeah.
- [77:58]
Cameron Simone Roberts
And they're very good at it. I mean, when you have somebody that is like a true sociopath or a true. Like a true narcissist. Not in the sense that we throw the word around now. Now, yes, we all have had narcissistic boyfriends. I think we all can Hail Mary to that. But. But, you know, but, I mean, I. True. Like a true sociopath, you know, or someone like that. They can. They're good at. Are at tricking their own selves and becoming this way and being able to rise to certain thresholds where they have a certain power and they're so good at it, they don't even know half the time, you know, and that's what's scary, you know, because with other people, as other humans, when you're communicating with them or having in some kind of engagement with them, you know, if someone lies to you, a lot of people can kind of tell. They can pick up on just like a feeling, an intuition, you know, even if they don't. You know, some people may be blink twice or whatever, you know, they might have little ticks, but you can kind of pick up on it. But a true sociopath, you have no idea because they don't know. You know, it's like they believe their own creation.
- [78:59]
Dr. Leslie
Yes. Oh, I wish I could diagnose public figures.
- [79:05]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I know you should, girl. I'll come on to that one.
- [79:10]
Dr. Leslie
Okay, one more question. Can you tell me a secret that nobody else knows?
- [79:15]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh, Lord. Let's see. I feel like I'm a pretty open book. You know what I mean? It's like I don't. You know, I feel like with secrets with me, I mean, I don't talk about. As a lawyer, I don't talk about a lot of stuff because it's like, you know, But I'm trying to think of a specialist, like. Or like something. Okay, I tell you this. It's not necessarily a secret, but it's something. It's kind of like a fun fact. And I'm gonna go into it. So my dad is. Not a lot of people know this because. Because, you know, then we start going into everything. My dad is 96, or will be 96 in August. I'm the last of seven that we know of. We're pretty sure. Seven. Seven legitimate, for sure. And children, different wives now. And he is like a wall of wives down his staircase. And it's like all the different wives that, you know, and you go down, you're like, oh, my God. It's like the ghost of wife passed. So. But anyway, we had a farm. We had, you know, growing up. We still have one, but it's leased out now. I got for my grandparents fast, and I had a whore. And if people. If you've anybody's had horses, you'll know. You know, if you don't breed the horses, a lot of times you buy them, the breeder will name them, and a lot of people keep the breeder name. So I had a horse named Cocaine, and she was fast. That was what was told with Me, she was fast. Of course, at that age, I had no idea what that meant. But in. I was. I went to private school. And they interview you at private schools, you know, when you're like in kindergarten. And of course, you know, you're in kindergarten. So they're talking to you about, what did you do this weekend? You know, what'd you do this summer? Do you have any pets? Things like that? And I was like, oh, yeah, I hope I have cocaine. They were like. So naturally that brought another interview with my parents there. They were like, no, no, no, no, no, this is her horse. And they were kind of like, wait, what? They're like, well, you know, they'd explain the thing. Like, you know, if you buy them for breeders, a lot of times, they're often named. Sometimes you keep them, whatever. And anyway, so I will say this, that my parents decided after that they wanted to start breeding horses and name them themselves. So this, I tell you what, this is the secret that comes out of this story. So my sis, my sister and I, when they were breeding horses at the barn, my mom was like, oh, you need to stay in the house. And so we did what any child would do, did not stay in the house. And we went snuck into the bunk house and we were present to the horse breeding situation. And I will tell you, I will never sneak to the bunk house again. No, that was disturbing.
- [81:42]
Dr. Leslie
Oh, my gosh. Enough. Oh, you have seen it?
- [81:48]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yes. That's a secret. Only my sister knows. I don't think my parents know that. Of course, they probably will now. But. So to all those viewers out there, if your parents tell you not to go to the bunk house and watch a horse breeding, listen, please listen.
- [82:04]
Dr. Leslie
That is something that you can only find on the dark web or like 4chan or something.
- [82:10]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh my gosh. And like P. Diddy, please don't get horses. We're just gonna lay it out there.
- [82:13]
Dr. Leslie
Oh my gosh. I mean, I. I was waiting for bestiality to just jump into this.
- [82:20]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I know. I was like, in three, two, too.
- [82:26]
Dr. Leslie
I guess for him, it would have to be a small. It would have to be a small animal. I. I know.
- [82:31]
Cameron Simone Roberts
True.
- [82:34]
Dr. Leslie
Cuz one of the complaints named him as the size of a Tootsie Roll. Yeah, that will never leave. That will never. He will never live that down.
- [82:43]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh, no, no.
- [82:45]
Dr. Leslie
I was. I was hoping we were going to actually see evidence of anatomy, but. But not. I guess not.
- [82:51]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I know that they must have suppressed that earlier on. I imagine he's like, this is cause for defamation. This Needs to stay under wraps. The wraps of the poor.
- [83:03]
Dr. Leslie
The poor juror who's like an elderly woman is like, coming to.
- [83:07]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh, my God, can't you imagine, like, your grandma on the stand and she's just like, yeah, at least they're probably.
- [83:16]
Dr. Leslie
Like stronger people because they're New Yorkers, you know, like, well, we got some Connecticut.
- [83:22]
Cindy Crawford
That.
- [83:22]
Cameron Simone Roberts
That's that now. That is true. New Yorkers are strong. I love New Yorkers. I love New Yorkers. We have a lot of transplants here in Atlanta from New York. And a lot of my good friends growing up are New Yorkers. And they are from birth. I mean, you see these kids, like, five and six years old riding the subway and you're like, yes. Okay. You know, meanwhile, we're like our like 15 year old. We're like, don't go. Don't leave the driveway. Yeah.
- [83:46]
Dr. Leslie
Oh. I mean, you're talking to someone in California. We are, like, scared of the air and everything.
- [83:51]
Cameron Simone Roberts
That's true. You're like, like, don't breathe outside today. Stay inside. For sure.
- [83:56]
Dr. Leslie
It's going to be a high of 70 degrees. Please stay indoors.
- [83:59]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Definitely. Meanwhile, we're like, if the air is so thick, we have no idea what's happening on the ozone because we're just breathing humidity. We're not sure what it is.
- [84:09]
Dr. Leslie
And you're just getting eaten alive by massive mosquitoes.
- [84:12]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Massive. Like, I mean, I. And I. They come after me. They'll bite through my leggings. Like, I mean, there was a time when I tried to do the natural. And I've tried every oil under the sun, but, oh, no, I'm 100% DEET now. I'm like, I'll have the deep. The deep wood deet. That's what I'll use over my clothes.
- [84:29]
Dr. Leslie
Oh. Can I tell you a funny story?
- [84:31]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Please.
- [84:32]
Dr. Leslie
When I started dating my husband, he's from Illinois, like, backwoods Illinois. And he was like, how fun. Let's go on a little date, you know, let's take this canoe out down this backwoods river. And I was like, yay. Ha. You know this Southern California girl.
- [84:49]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yeah.
- [84:49]
Dr. Leslie
Oh, my God. Horse flies.
- [84:53]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh. Oh, yes. Yes. And have you seen one up close? Their eyes are crazy.
- [84:59]
Dr. Leslie
I'm like, is that a spider?
- [85:01]
Cameron Simone Roberts
What is that thing?
- [85:02]
Dr. Leslie
I. So basically what I did was I took all of the bug spray and I had it just on constant flow until he could get me home. So I'm just like, breathing in the bug spray. He doesn't get any. I let him stay behind me so I Was like, no, I'm just going to surround myself in the bug spray. And yes, we get back and we, like, pull up, like, 100. Oops, I hit my 100. I have cancer, but I have no nail polish on my nails. They are stripped. And then we look at the canoe and it is like, matte. There is no shine left. And I was like, honey, I don't really know who you. Who you think you're dating, but things have to change. And then we moved to California.
- [85:48]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Oh, my God. Well, I'll tell you this, girl. If you go into South Georgia, if you go below the NAT line, which we have here, Atlanta is above the NAT line. And I think everybody has a different opinion of what the NAT line is. I personally think it's below Perry, just. Just below Perry, which is like a little bit below Macon, kind of the middle of the state. But when I proved to South. South Georgia, they were like, oh, you know, because I'm sitting here going like this, you know, 24 7. They're like, oh, honey, you go. You, like, blow up, like, for those of you not seeing me, or you kind of, like, blow with your, like, upper lip up. And I was like, oh, okay. And I blew the knot, like, straight into my eyeball. So there is. There is. There is a way to do it. A mechanic surrounded. I am not good at it. I blew it into my eyeball, like, straight into my nose, into my.
- [86:31]
Dr. Leslie
See, I don't ever want to experience that. No, I know.
- [86:34]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I walked out of, like, a beehive suit and I was like, I'm real sorry, but buggies tend to like me no matter what, so I'm prepared.
- [86:41]
Dr. Leslie
No, thank you. I will never, never go. Well, I want to thank you so much for coming on. And I mean, I. You said so many insightful things. And I know, Sean Combs, I know your jury and your lawyers are listening, and I hope you take this to heart.
- [86:59]
Cameron Simone Roberts
I know. Bless. Only time will tell. This is definitely, surely an interesting one.
- [87:06]
Dr. Leslie
But where can people find you? I mean, if you are needing an attorney, this is the one you should have. Because, you know, the ones, the. Who's the old white guy who did the commercials? Larry H. Parker. No more.
- [87:23]
Cameron Simone Roberts
It is a new era for sure. And, you know, and we, yes, we are based in Georgia, but we're nationwide and it's Bridger Lager, so you can actually go on Instagram and it's, you know, at Bridger B R I D G E R Law Group or, you know, you can DM me personally and It's Cameron. Underscore, Simone. C A M E R O N. Underscore, Simone. S I M O N E. And, you know, we're happy to get to you. We do personal injury, and my law partner does immigration as well, so I solely do personal injury. And, you know, we take a. A whole different, you know, component and attack when it comes to our personal injury cases, which I think really sets us apart. You know, we have. We have criminal backgrounds, and so when we get a case, we invite, you know, you get a police report. Most personal injury lawyers will have the police report and send a demand out, and it's maybe one or two sentences on what happened. And, you know, there's no other evidence obtained, anything like that. We take it a step further. I investigate my cases. I treat it like a DA case file. You know, I'm going into it, I'm taking pictures, I'm interviewing witnesses, I'm pulling cameras. I'm building a case as strong as I can so that my client has the best representation they know how. And we really are a family firm. You know, I have several clients that had really bad things happen to them. You know, one of my. One of my. She was a child when the case initially started, but was about 18 or 19 when she finished and unfortunately lost her mother. You know, I go down and see her all the time. I, you know, she'd actually. On the anniversary of her mother's death, the teach. She was in college as a first year, and the teacher wouldn't give her like a continuance day to take her final exam. And I was like, oh, hell no. So I drove down there four hours, four and a half, and had a conversation with that teacher, and wow. Needless to say, she was allowed to retake it. And so we. And that was. Was probably six months after we settled the case. So, you know, we're definitely a very different approach law firm. We have a great legal team, great staff, great employees. Everybody is in it 100%. And, you know, we're nationwide. I'm so happy to represent you and talk to you about your case and see if there's something we can do for you. But any of those two places, you could definitely get in touch with me or the firm through me. And I'm Cameron Brock Roberts, so you can ask for me if you go through the Instagram Bridger Law Group page.
- [89:47]
Dr. Leslie
Yeah. Oh, I love it. And as somebody who comes from criminal too, and I'm now in civil and personal injury. It's a unique combination to have and you want to vet your lawyer. You want that on your side?
- [90:01]
Cameron Simone Roberts
You definitely do. And if I could say advice to anyone out there. You know, ask your lawyer what strategy plan they have to attack. You know, ask them what, when you first, first take them on, what do they plan on doing with your case? How do they plan on investigating it more if there's not enough evidence, you think, or something like that. Because you have every right to ask them. The lawyer does get to govern, typically, the strategy of the case. But you can pick and choose your lawyer and up to a certain point, you can pretty much fire them at any time, but communicate with them, talk to them about what their plan is. If you don't communicate with your clients and you're not finding out the reason, real story. And, and so I just urge you guys, all your listeners out there, to ask your lawyer questions and, you know, find out what their plan is because you may have some very insightful knowledge about something that could be very, very, very helpful that they otherwise may not see in the evidence presented to them.
- [90:58]
Dr. Leslie
Yeah, exactly. Oh, I'm so excited. Let me know if I can. I have a commission.
- [91:04]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yes, absolutely, girl.
- [91:09]
Dr. Leslie
Well, thank you for being on Intentionally Disturbing. Thank you for having me. I'll put all your links in the show notes so everybody can click away and contact you.
- [91:19]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Absolutely. Well, thank you for having me. I enjoyed it. And I will wait to see what happens to the PDD trial. It's gonna be very interesting.
- [91:27]
Dr. Leslie
Yes, I'm looking forward to it.
- [91:31]
Cameron Simone Roberts
Yes, I'm sure it'll happen real soon considering the rapidity of how it's occurring right now, so.
- [91:39]
Dr. Leslie
Oh, hey.
- [91:42]
Cameron Simone Roberts
You'Re here.
- [91:43]
Dr. Leslie
Thank you for listening to another episode of Intentionally Disturbing. I'll catch you next time. Intentionally Disturbing is a podcast from me, Dr. Leslie. It's distributed by I Heart Media. Liam Billingham is the senior producer and he also edits the show and puts up with my. Katie Cobbs does the social media and she attempts to keep me in my lane, not always successful. The executive producers are Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media, who have told me not to text them 24 7. But you know what? I'm still the boss. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next week for more.
- [92:31]
Cameron Simone Roberts
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Cameron Simone Roberts
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- [95:02]
Dr. Leslie
This is an iheart podcast.