← Intentionally Disturbing
Intentionally Disturbing
Dan Brunner, EX-FBI: Catching Criminals and Keeping Your Kids Safe Online
01:00:37
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- [00:00]
Dr. Leslie
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:06]
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- [01:30]
Dan Bruner
Bit easier our way.
- [01:32]
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- [01:35]
Dan Bruner
What?
- [01:35]
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- [02:46]
Dr. Leslie
Oh, hey, you're here. Welcome to intentionally disturbing. I'm Dr. Leslie, and this week I have the honor of speaking to Dan Bruner. He is former FBI. He is pretty cool. I met him because I actually poached one of his articles about the online social media cult764 that is really harming and manipulating our children. So we talk a lot about this, but we also talk about how to educate your children about being safe and being online. And we talk about Dan's career, where he caught a lot of criminals like Ms. 13, and where he's going now, actually starting a podcast. And I can't wait for you to hear about that as well. Oh, hey. Okay. Dan, thank you for doing this.
- [03:43]
Dan Bruner
My pleasure.
- [03:44]
Dr. Leslie
I'm. I'm really excited to talk to you. I was really excited to talk to you before, but I just got off the phone with the dad of a victim of 764, and now, like, I'm emotional and excited to talk to you.
- [03:59]
Dan Bruner
Yeah, it's. It's tough.
- [04:01]
Dr. Leslie
It was a horrifying story, you know.
- [04:03]
Dan Bruner
Being a, you know, a parent of young children that are coming up in the age, in the time, you know, where they're going to start really exposing themselves to the Internet. You know, I'm in the position, you know, with my background, having been with the FBI, I have a better position to really be aware, but I AM Less than 1% of this country, you know, of people. So obviously, you know, we want to get to as many people and educate people through your platform and through my website and, you know, educate them and how to really be prepared and how to stay ahead of these guys because they really are really just vultures and they're looking for the opening, so. Agreed. I'm glad you have.
- [04:41]
Dr. Leslie
Yeah, I mean, if it's okay with you, maybe we'll. Maybe I'll tell you kind of what this dad told me and then we can kind of dive into what this 764 group is. Um, and then we can jump into your career as a special agent and.
- [04:59]
Dan Bruner
M13 and anything I can do all.
- [05:01]
Dr. Leslie
Of these amazing stories you have.
- [05:02]
Dan Bruner
Yep. I'd love to help.
- [05:04]
Dr. Leslie
So the way we met was you and I, Dan, I poached one of your articles and made a TikTok and Instagram video out of it because I thought it was an incredible article. It went viral and then this dad stitched my article on TikTok and said, yeah, it's wonderful that Interpol took down this, this radicalized group, this extremist group, 764, but it pops back up. And even though the lead guy got taken down, he still got a bunch of people working under him. And In February of 2025, they finally convinced this man's daughter to kill herself on a live stream after she had done five livestream attempts before. So from age 13 to 16, she was groomed and at 16, just a few months ago, she ended her life.
- [05:56]
Dan Bruner
Yeah, no, it's, it's horrible situation and you know, we'll dive into it deeper and you know what the, you know, what the implications are for the family and parents and children. And I don't ever, I hope I never ever go through what, you know, he experienced. But I'm glad that he spoke to you because it's important to get the message out there and to understand that with the power of the Internet these days, there is no place that they cannot touch. You know, whether you live in Bozeman, Montana or Wayne, New Jersey or la, you know, California, someone has access to the Internet. That means they have access to your child. So yeah, we can, we'll be able to discuss that today.
- [06:39]
Dr. Leslie
Yeah, I'd love to walk through. What can parents look for? So this, what this dad was able to see was that he was, the little girl was originally playing on Roblox and was asked to help draw pictures and do little things on Roblox. Innocent, right? He thought it was another little girl. And that's what she started telling her parents because he was telling her to tell her parents. And it moved into, he started to extort her, he started to convince her to harm herself in order to fulfill this bucket list that they have where you have to do all these things to hurt yourself in order to earn your place in the group. So now you're, now your kids are like striving to be a part of these extremist groups. Then what happened was the parents were doxed, their cell phones were doxed and they were sent child images. So once the child images were on the parents phones, they were swatted and police and FBI showed up to their homes to see that there were child images on their phones. Now it was all, it was all cleared up. The FBI is on their side, they've taken on the case and. But now they are being harassed and they are continuing to get random phone calls. The videos of, of their daughter are being sent to them continuously still.
- [08:08]
Dan Bruner
Well, see, here's the thing is with 76 4, you understand this. Like I dealt with Hispanic gangs, Ms. 13 trinitarios, Trinidad cartels. That's what I did for the majority of my career. But I also worked domestic terrorism. I worked investigating groups of white supremacy. And this type of crime is now evolved. The fact of all of these other groups that I was investigating, whether they were drug trafficking or human trafficking, as horrible as all of these are, it's a profit, it's a game for them to earn money, for them to grow their enterprise, for them to grow their organization. With 764, it's just pure evil. It's just pure manipulation and power to show that they have power over the child, that they can manipulate them using the Internet and getting them into a position of power over the child. And then once they have that power, obviously they're continuing. And then for them, it's just the joy of, you know, the evil. And these. That's why I look at these people as pure evil. These are people that, you know, don't do anything for profit. They're doing it just because they can. And that's what makes them, like, truly evil. That, that they want to get, you know, financially. They want to get money. No, that they're, you know, maybe they may be extortion at the beginning, but at the end of the day is they want to get their, you know, their victim to. To suffer. They want to get the family to suffer. That's where they, they get their joy from, is seeing the suffrage from of all these families. And that's what makes it even worse and makes them even more horrible. And being able to, you know, identify, you know, these individuals and just giving your child unfettered access to the Internet, giving them an iPad without you putting the security procedures and all these companies that have, you know, digital devices, iPad, Google Android devices, they all have, you know, tools for the parent to set up. The structure of no, they can't shut. And I've been very, very, you know, vehement, you know, with my children and saying, you know, I'm controlling. I am. I am in charge of the iPad. I can see everything. I can see what you're searching so that they know that, you know, there. There's someone over them that there's no secretive, there's no, you know, secret chatting. They don't chat with on online groups. They don't do that. That's that's not allowed. And I have various structured rules which, you know, I can discuss and, and how to really, you know, protect your family later on. But these are the things that I work at and making sure that my children are best protected based on my training and based on that and even. And I recognize that no matter how much I do, there's still going to be always a possibility of these individuals getting through my net because they're one step ahead of us. But what I look at it is one of my things I do in my company is security consulting. And what I tell my clients is saying, listen, I'm never going to be able to say a hundred percent, you won't be attacked, you won't, you know, won't get robbed, you won't go. But what I'm going to do is create enough barriers between you and the bad guys so they make it so difficult to get to the victim that they're gonna go, oh no, this is too much work. Let's move on to the next target they're looking for, the one, you know, the child that doesn't have protection, that doesn't have the parents that are overseeing. I'm not saying micromanage your children. Sometimes that does have to be done. You micromanaging, you're looking at them. But there are lots of tools on Apple and Android devices where you could set it up. Certain age limits, you know, and, and staying away from certain games. You know, there's certain games, Roblox and you know, I just don't give them access to it. And so, you know, it's, it's a process of being a parent and that's our job because it's people that.
- [12:14]
Dr. Leslie
So with, with Roblox though, like, for me, like I've never, I've never played Roblox.
- [12:20]
Dan Bruner
Right?
- [12:21]
Dr. Leslie
What's happening? How are these people getting to the kids through Roblox?
- [12:25]
Dan Bruner
Well, I think they're, you know, building relationships. They're building a relationship with the child. So in these rooms where you can look at it, it's not just Roblox, you can look at all these online platforms. PlayStation, you know, and other video game and Xbox and computers where there's rooms where you're sitting there with what you're building and there's people talking to each other and those voices can be manipulated. So your child, who is 8, 9, 10, 11, 13 years old, is sitting in this room and they're, they're having fun. There's other people that come in and they strike up a Conversation. They may be on other sides of the, of the planet, they may be on the side of the world and it to them it sounds like another 13 year old. So of course they're going to strike up a conversation and the before you know it, these people know how to get them and manipulate them, their minds to do what they say, hey, I want you to know, can we do this? Can we do this? And the most important part is, and I've taught my children and I said that to them plainly from the beginning, said if anybody ever, ever says to you these words, you come to me immediately. If anybody ever says to you don't tell your parents because you'll get in trouble if that ever happens to you. I told them, come to me, I will not, 100% will not judge you, I will not punish you. But you come to me and tell me this because then that's someone manipulating them. They're saying, hey, don't tell your parents because you could get in trouble. Even if it was a fellow 8, 9, 10 year old, that's somebody I don't want my kids to be friends with because they're doing it for nefarious reasons. So it's all about really staying ahead of it.
- [14:04]
Dr. Leslie
And I think one of the common things is don't tell your parents because they'll be killed, I will kill them. I mean it's such an extreme threat. And then they say I know your address, I know your parents names, right?
- [14:18]
Dan Bruner
And that's, it's too much for the kids. And that's why I save if they ever say to you don't tell your parents and then whatever follows, I need to know that first part where they say don't tell your parents and then I could set up a protection around us. We need to block it off, we need to. And there's lots of different things which I advise my clients on how to best prepare themselves and how to deal with the situation. Well, I've got cybersecurity experts that I work with who you know are able to shore up and how to set up the wi fi password so you're not be able to hack. And doxxing is such a prevalent thing now these days where you know, people can threaten, I know where you live, I know your address. See that? But that's too much for the child who's 8, 9, 10 to understand. Give that to the parent. And if the parent doesn't understand, you reach out for somebody, whether it be local law enforcement or somebody like myself, you reach out to me. I will gladly advise you, you know, no charge. I will talk to you and say, hey, this is what you need to do. 1, 2, 3, is to shore up the situation to protect your child. Because 7, 6, 4, they don't care. They, you know, obviously they, you know, they want to. They want to. They want to see the reaction. That's their, their narcissism. This. It's all about them and seeing how they manipulate the victim and then by extension, the victim's family. So it's, it's, like I said, it's pure evil.
- [15:38]
Dr. Leslie
I really want to get your tips on how to protect kids, but my biggest question is, why are they doing this? Where is this coming from?
- [15:49]
Dan Bruner
I think it's, you know, what, it's. They're finding people who are clearly, you know, broken, you know, mentally broken. And, you know, as a society, we all know this. We all know that Jeffrey Dahmers. We all know, you know, the type of serial killers, you know, that the, that in the 80s, 90s and 2000s, they really hid in the shadows. Now they're able to hide behind the computer screen. They're able to really, you know, get to people. Instead. They don't have to go hunt in their neighborhood. They're able to hunt in the world. And then they're. They use Roblox, they use the other video game platforms as their hunting grounds, and they're looking for that. And that's the best way for me to, to, to really look at it is they're getting joy. And that's what Jeffrey Dahmer interviews and all these other serial killers, they, and Ted Bundy, you know, they received. They felt joy by having power over their victims, by having. Being able to take their lives. And this is, you know, a vulnerable member of society. And by looking at them, I mean, we, we grew up in the 80s. You knew the, you know, the, the child on the milk carton, on the back of the milk cart. It happened in the 80s. And now this is, this is today's version of how they're getting to our children. These are the same deprived people who, like I said, hide behind the computer screen and do their evil deeds. And they find other people because of the Internet. They find other people that really are able to, you know, talk to them and, and understand the same thing that they're talking about. As joyous as the Internet is, there is an evil side to it. I mean, it's opening up, you know, where you're able to sit down and talk to people of your own political same decision or your sexual orientation, your religious orientation, you know, if you may not have it in your community, then now these evil people know exactly where to hide, whether it be in the dark web or whether it be in these gaming sites. And they're able to connect and then say, I mean, it doesn't have to be in the neighborhood anymore. You could have one person in New York City, one person la, One person in England, and they just find each other and they're able to work this together. And that's how 764 came to be and, you know, purely satanic and evil group.
- [18:02]
Dr. Leslie
Spoken from an FBI agent. I mean, your words have so much weight. The one thing the dad said to me today was the platforms have created a place for predators to sit and wait. It's like a pond full of fish.
- [18:16]
Dan Bruner
Yeah, that's. That's an excellent way to say it. And, you know, obviously from, from his point, you know, her perspective, he knows better than anybody else. And that's what's horrible is, was his loss. But he's right. They are sitting there waiting for the vulnerable thing. They're waiting for the target that is unprotected. They're not going to sit there and work, work, work, work, work to try and manipulate or, you know, to have somebody do some evil things to themselves if it's work for them. They want the easy target. They're looking for the, the child that is not protected. They're looking for the computer that doesn't have the WI fi password or is. Isn't restricted or, you know, the child that is unaware of, hey, somebody's talking to me. I shouldn't be talking to them. Click. You know, turn it off. You know, the, the awareness that the parents have to have is really important because you can't depend on the child to be like, okay, you, you're gonna know at 9, 10 years old when somebody. No, no, they don't know and they don't know. And whether the parent says, oh, my kids are fine. No, your kids do not know. So, you know, I would beg to say, says, I don't care how mature you think your child is, they are not ready for 764. And then if you question that, talk to this father, you know, listening to his voice, they're not ready for 764. These people are at another level. And that's why they're targeting the most, you know, the, the age group which can be most manipulative and the easiest target to pull their strings and get them to do what they want.
- [19:48]
Dr. Leslie
It's fucking horrendous.
- [19:49]
Dan Bruner
Yeah, no, it's. It's. It's like I said, pure evil. I mean. I mean, I dealt with Ms. 13 members. I've dealt with Trinitarios cartel members. They're, you know, they're evil in their way, but they're a part of a criminal enterprise. They're doing it to make money. They're taking over neighborhoods, they're extorting from restaurants, and they're executing other people they deem as a threat to themselves or to their group. I get that, and I understand that, and that's evil from this, but this is pure evil. This is, like I said, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy type of serial killers. And they're using. Instead of, you know, right now, there's the. There's the big rumor up on the east coast that there's a serial killer. You know, through. They found countless number of bodies in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode island, and bodies just a bit. So people are, you know, they love having the theory of that there's a serial killer out there in the northeast right now. But the fact of the matter is these guys use the Internet as their playground, and all they're doing is waiting for the right victim to swim by.
- [20:56]
Dr. Leslie
And it just makes me think, as a psychologist, how many kids have killed themselves? And we've thought it was because of their mental illness, and the parents have been unaware that they were groomed into killing themselves. Part of the bucket list for 764 is that you get yourself into an ER, you get a diagnosis, you get medication, you stay two weeks, you come out. So you're earning your stripes, right? You write seven, you carve it into your body. 764, which this man's daughter did. And so we're also.
- [21:30]
Dan Bruner
It's evil.
- [21:31]
Dr. Leslie
Like, how much of. How much are we mistaking mental illness for this extremist grooming?
- [21:38]
Dan Bruner
Well, you know, I'll leave that to the experts, like you and yourself to designate and diagnose mental instability. I look at it as, like I said, that these are pure evil people. And the problem is this. If you don't have a parent that's aware of the problem we have these days with investigations that the FBI is conducting. I know United States attorney's office, they're working on this. I know FBI investigations are being conducted into 764. But the problem is this. By the time that 764 member has been identified, who have they gotten to? That's. So it's. It's. It's not like a bank robbery where a bank was robbed. Okay, we know the bank robber, okay, now we got to chase, put the clues together. The evidence. We don't. You know, it's. It's a lot of times this. We don't know that a 764 member has identified, targeted, and manipulated one of your children until it's too late. Unfortunately, the FBI, from what I understand, is, Is working this case, but it's after the fact, after the loss. So that's why it's really dependent on the parent or guardian to sit there with the child and tell them. You know, there's, there's. There's certain things you don't tell, and you shield the child from that, but you tell them enough to say, hey, listen, come find me. There's no questions asked. And then you just. You protect them. And, you know, and from the beginning, from when my son started playing PlayStation, I always told him, never, you don't chat. You don't chat with people. You don't chat with people. You don't chat with people. And that's it. And so now that he's had that in his head for three years of no chatting, no chatting, no chatting, he now immediately when he logs on, he mutes his mic. So he's just used to it. Hey, that's. That's the norm. I don't listen to the chat rooms. I don't involve myself in conversations. And that's for me to protect him. And saying, hey, it's become the norm now. You're not part of conversations. You don't chat. You know, I don't know who you're chatting with if I'm not sitting there. Most of the time, I'm sitting near him when he's playing on the PlayStation. But even then, you know, I can't be everywhere at all the time. So it's about trying to stay one step ahead and telling them, hey, listen, there are some pretty bad people in these chat rooms. I'm sure most of them are fine. If you find your friends, you connect with your friends, that's fine. But if you ever see this, this, this, if they ever say to you, hey, don't tell your parents, or, oh, you know, or they make you do things that you're not quite sure or, or if they threaten us or saying, hey, I know where you live, those are the big red flags. Come find me. I won't judge you. It's a full get out of jail free card. But I will protect you. And that's. That's really what we have to do these days.
- [24:28]
Dr. Leslie
We'll be right back after this break.
- [24:33]
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- [25:56]
Dan Bruner
Isn't he terrific?
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- [27:20]
Dr. Leslie
Do you have any other tips that, that you commonly share in your practice to protect the family and the home and children?
- [27:27]
Dan Bruner
Well, I mean it's. Studies have shown now that we've had social media and the Internet and now for a Good, you know, 15 years there's studies have shown that children of 16, 17, 18 have said, I kind of wish my parents hadn't let me have social media because you know, the social media really alters the child's head of like I gotta get the hit of how many likes did I get? Or how many, you know, boom, boom, boom. You know, get the, I got to get those likes up. I got to get, I got to create my YouTube page or Instagram page or this, whatever kids are Snapchat. So I've told my kids they're not get, they don't get a phone until probably, you know, they're early, just before teenage years 11, 12. And they do not get social media. They don't get any social media at all until minimum 16 years old. And they've shown me that they're mature enough to have social media and at which time I still would watch over them until they're 18, until they're out of my house and you know, they're paying for their phones. At which point I've done everything I can up until they're 18. But I still will tell them, hey, I'm always here for you. If you have a question, I will answer it for you. But all these formative years right now, this is the big time. This is where you really need to be on top of your children. And you know, people are like, well, I need to, I shouldn't. You know, I want to have, I want him to be my friend or I want to be, you know, I don't want to be a helicopter parent. Yes, yes you do. You don't. We're not supposed to be friends with our children. We're supposed to be their guardian and we're supposed to watch out for them and show them the way. So giving them this wide area latitude of letting them grow, letting them explore. That is not the way. That is the target that these 764 members and there are countless other breakoff groups just like 764. So just say 764 is the only one is not accurate. There are countless others that are out there which have yet to be identified. So to be vigilant, that's our job as parents. We need to stay with them. We need to show them the way. And if you don't know the way, listen, I'm more than happy I write these articles. The same one, you know, that you, you looked at, you saw on the article. I give guidance different cybers, you know, things to prepare yourself for, how to prepare, you know, WI fi, set your WI Fi passwords. And really, it's awareness, it's just handing them on an iPad is absolutely without any checks or balances. It is. Not only are you giving them access to the world, the world is getting access to your child. So, you know, if they're not old enough to drive a car or drink beer, they're not old enough for the Internet. Unfettered access to the Internet yet.
- [30:12]
Dr. Leslie
And I love that you, you offer an age, but you, you offer a maturity level with that, right? It's not just about the number. It's about knowing your kid and their maturity and their capacity to navig.
- [30:25]
Dan Bruner
No, absolutely. And that's. And that's part of it. And I've told them, I said, good grades, you stay with your sports that you guys are doing. You have to show me that you are responsible. And I mean, if you have an irresponsible child who doesn't, you know, isn't, you know, behaving well, okay, you lose your iPad, you lose your phone, you lose your thing. We got to be more, you know, on top of our children these days, because the Internet, because of the open access. And I told my children, I said, listen, this is about when we'll talk about getting you a phone. I have. They have devices now where I'm able to talk to them directly, where I'm able to track them, where I'm able to say, hey, you need to message me. This is what you have. So they have devices. They have, you know, there's lots of different ways. There's your iWatch, your Gizmo watch that Verizon makes, where you could have direct communication and no one else can call them. Based on the settings that you do in the app, you could say these are the only numbers that are able to call them. If an outside number. I've tested this, an outside number tries to call them, it says the number you have called is not in service. So, but they're able to call me at any times. If they say, hey, Dad, I need to come out. And I've told them, I said, listen, if you're ever at a friend's house, you're ever at a situation where you're not comfortable, you just call me and say, hey, dad, you know, I really miss you. You know, what are we having for dinner tonight? And then I know I'm on my way over. And that's just our secret little word, our secret code word. And they also know, you know, if anybody comes to pick them up at school that is not myself or my wife, they know that person that's supposed to pick them up is given a code word. So they know this code word. So our children know, hey, I may tell them, hey, my friend Jeff is supposed to pick you up. They're not going to get in the car. Even though they know Jeff, they're not going to get in the car until Jeff says the code word, which I gave him, which would be the code of the day. And I'll give them the code. Hey, say Jeff should say this code word to you. Pineapple. And if he doesn't say pineapple, you don't get in the car with him. So it's just, like I said, different layers of security. Even though they know Jeff, they don't get in the car unless they hear the code word. So it's trying to stay on top of things. And, you know, a lot of times it's the people that are closest to the child who really take advantage of the child. So that's why it's even. Even, like I said, even best friends, you know, even close friends, you know, even. Sometimes even family members that, you know, shouldn't be at the school. And unless you have the code word. So this is where I'm, you know, trying to set the boundaries for my children. And they always have had this boundary. They've always know that I'm there. So when I move the boundary, okay, this is. They're used to it. They're used to this, okay? Dad's always setting boundaries. Can't have until here. Can't have until here. So despite their friends who are 8, 9, 10 years old, may have a phone, they understand don't ask, because it's not going to happen.
- [33:15]
Dr. Leslie
One thing I wanted to mention was that even if you pick off an online perpetrator or a perpetrator in real life, it doesn't mean that they haven't groomed another individual to follow in their footsteps. And I think it's important to remind parents that you can never be relieved.
- [33:35]
Dan Bruner
Of this listen, that 764 is just like any other criminal enterprise. You take out a leader, you take out a drug dealer, there's going to be someone to fill those spots. I, I can't tell you how many Ms. 13 members I took out, how many Ms. 13 leaders I took out. And they had a replacement. Within days they had a replacement. So it was, it was the constant battle. I knew that we were not going to defeat MS.13. We just had to defeat them at the local level or at the international level. Taking out certain to make it as difficult for them to process. Take out the big, you know, the big players to make their lives difficult again. You know, you take out a 764 membership leader, there's going to be someone there to take their spot right away and continue operations. It's, it's, it's never ending, it's never ending fight.
- [34:22]
Dr. Leslie
That's a great lead in. Can you, can you tell us all about your career? I mean tell us of your awesomeness taking down America's most wanted.
- [34:32]
Dan Bruner
I appreciate it. So yeah, I spent, and So I did nine years in the Navy before the FBI. And then 911 occurred and the FBI was recruiting. I was an instructor at the Naval Academy and the FBI came recruiting and they were looking for lots of different things and everybody, you know, looks at, you know, traditionally it's, they're looking for accountants and lawyers and such. Well, one of the things they're also looking for is people who speak other languages. And I speak Spanish fluently. My parents are immigrants from Chile and Argentina. And so I was raised speaking Spanish in my home. So I raised my hand, I said okay and give it a shot. And a year later I was at the FBI Academy and I got stationed in Newark, New Jersey where I spent 20 years in Newark, 15 of those hunting Ms. 13. And for the last four years of my career I was part of a group called Joint Task Force Vulcan, which were hand pick agents. You know, there was only three of us that were picked for initially at the outset which was to go after the leaders of MS.13 internationally. So I would pick off leaders that were in Mexico and bring them the United States for, you know, charges that we had been able to get them here. But you know, more importantly my, my area of responsibility, my AOR was New Jersey. So Ms. 13 leaders. There's a lot of Ms. 13 activity in New Jersey and Long Island, Virginia and North Carolina. There's, it's a, it's a big presence. And you know, I've had numerous cases where you know, doing large racketeering cases, rico, where you're investigating the organization, the group as a whole. Now, for people who don't know rico, RICO is, you know, something that was brought around and is a statute that was created in the 70s to go after the mafia, you know, the Cosa Nostra, the Italian mob. And they were able to utilize that to investigate gangs and large criminal organizations. Whereas if you can prove that an individual commits two different acts as two separate acts of crime on behalf of the gang, either to elevate the status of the gang, give profit to the gang, or elevate their own status within the gang, that's called a racketeering act. So we could charge them with racketeering. So for example, we had a case in Plainfield, New Jersey where the group called the Plainfield Locos Salvatrucha pls were conducting criminal activity. They were drug dealing, they were extorting and they were committing homicides. That was part of their control that was controlling the environment, controlling the neighborhoods, fear for them to make a profit and to raise their status. So every one of these acts were RICO acts. And they murdered people and they murdered a lot of people. And we, in 2013 we started an investigation at the FBI in Newark and eventually got to 2016 where we went to trial with them and ended up charging 14 different members under one racketeering investigation. One of them was a guy, individual by the name of Walter Yovani Gomez. He had murdered, who was his friend at the time, but he had thought he had. That individual, Julio Matute, had been hanging out with the rival gang, 18th Street. So Walter decided to take it upon himself with it with a co conspirator to murder him. And they brutally, brutally murdered him. The co conspirator was caught, Walter was not. He escaped. And in 2011 he fled and was believed that he had gone to Maryland. So in 2016, when we had the trial for the eight remaining members who had not taken a plea, all of those individuals, it was a four month trial is huge in New Jersey. They were all found guilty. And if you're found guilty of murder in the aid of racketeering, there's only one sentence, life, mandatory life. And you are not getting out. So you are going to die in prison, in federal prison.
- [38:33]
Dr. Leslie
Is there no death penalty?
- [38:36]
Dan Bruner
There was, it was a death penalty case. Yes, there was the potential for the penalty of death penalty in this trial because it was so brutal. But nobody got the death penalty.
- [38:46]
Dr. Leslie
How did he murder the last guy?
- [38:48]
Dan Bruner
They were smoking weed, drinking all night. And Julio got up to go to work at 6 in the morning and Walter and his co conspirator got up. So Walter hit him on the head with a baseball bat, sliced his throat, and then stabbed him 17 times in his back with an ice pick. When the Union county prosecutor's office came to arrest him, he jumped out of second floor window and disappeared into the night. He was never seen again until 2016, when as soon as the trial was done, the U.S. attorney's office, which I was working with, the AUSA said, go get him. So I started working with our public affairs office and putting up posters on him and in. In with the areas we believed that he was hiding out, which were MS.13 strongholds. Long Island, Maryland, Virginia and North Carolina. Where I believed he had fled, was hiding amongst his friends. I got no results from that. I got very little tips, no results. Then I spoke to our violent crimes division and they had said there's a spot open on the 10 Most Wanted. And after it took me a year of working with them and getting the application done, I was able to get him onto the table. FBI's 10 most wanted in April of 2017. And then the tips started coming in. I was doing interviews on Telemundo, Univision and the media. And I really was focusing my energy on Maryland. But the Maryland MS.13 really have a good working relationship with MS.13 in New Jersey. I started putting him up on billboards all over Maryland. And some tips came in and none of them really flushed out. They were all nothing. And then one day in August, we got a phone call. Individual said, hey, listen, I play soccer here in Maryland. And that guy looks really familiar. I think that guy that I saw on the board is the guy you're looking for. We said, okay, this sounds like a pretty credible tip. So we went out to the address of one of the vehicle that was where the individual was seen getting into. And he left. He had given us a plate. So we went to the house and it was just a surveillance team. So when the FBI conducts an arrest, if it's for one person, you typically come with 10 to 12 agents. So they overwhelm the individual so that there's no chance that they fight back. So it is. When we arrest somebody, it's not like two FBI agents, it's 10 to 12. But we're surveillance. We typically do only four to six members. You know, four is a small. It's somewhere in the six to eight range. So we were doing surveillance and we sat on the house where the vehicle license Plate had come back to as registered, and we wanted to see if there were other vehicles in the parking lot. While we're sitting there, we see a woman come out and get into the vehicle in question. And we said, all right, let's follow her. Let's see where she goes. So we followed her down the road, and she went to a strip mall. And while we're sitting in the strip mall waiting for her to do something, she doesn't get out of her car. All of a sudden, we see Walter come out of a barbershop. He was getting his hair cut. And at which point we decided. We was like, well, there's only six of us, but we can't pass up this opportunity. We see him, he's here. We don't have an arrest plan, but, you know, we're trained agents. We had task force officers with us. Everybody knows what they're doing. Everybody's been trained well. So we jumped out and we arrested him. And he. Within the day, he was admitting who he was. And we transferred him back to New Jersey, where eventually it took about a month or two, but he pled guilty to all the charges. Because a lot of it has to do with the trial that happened, you know, a year or two years earlier. We had convicted so many of them, and they had received life sentences. And he saw this, and plus, we had a lot of witnesses who testified for us. They were confidential informants and. And individuals who were part of his gang who had decided to flip and take an easier deal so that they could testify. So they took a. You know, it was up to the judge to make the final decision, but they received a lighter sentence because of their testimony. When he saw this, the confidential informants, the testimonies, and the results of mandatory life, he took a plea. So he said he was sentenced to 25 years in federal prison. And we're now, you know, about, what, 10 years into that? So he's got another 15 years, and at which time, as soon as he's done, he's. He'll get deported back to El Salvador.
- [43:20]
Dr. Leslie
Could he get out early at all?
- [43:23]
Dan Bruner
No, no, there's no. You have to serve the full 25 years.
- [43:27]
Dr. Leslie
Wow. How many years did you spend tracking this guy?
- [43:33]
Dan Bruner
Well, I sort of was lightly doing it in 2014, 2015, but we were preparing for the trial. So the AUSAs were. You know, we had eight individuals going to trial all at the same time, which is not very common in a federal trial. It's not very common. Typically, sometimes one, two, or three defendants is somewhat the norm, but to have eight defendants all at the same time. The U.S. attorney's office in New Jersey had decided they want to go forward with all eight. Instead of doing eight separate trials, we'll do one big, huge trial. And the AUSA saw that if I had arrested him, if I had captured him right before the trial, that would completely change the perspective of the trial. Because not only would he, because he's charged as part of this group, most likely would postpone the trial. So they had spent almost a year preparing for this trial, getting every witness, getting every piece of evidence, everything in line. If I had captured him before for the trial, it would have completely changed the narrative of how everything was constructed, because every witness is in a certain place for an exact reason. Set up the story. Here's the story. Here are the supporting witnesses, and here's the evidence. And so everything is in line by the U.S. attorney's office. They. They put everything in line, show the evidence, these physical evidence, the supporting evidence, and it's all put there together, so bringing. You know, if I captured Walter, it would change that. So they were telling me, they're like, you know, when we were a year out from the trial, they're like, let's ease up on the hunt, okay? If he comes up, he comes up. There's nothing to it, but let's not find him until this trial is done. And literally, like, the day after the sentencing, you know, my 2A USA said, go forth. Go get them. Because it was done. We had gotten. We had received not the sentencing, but the. Yeah, the sentence. When they were sentenced, they were found guilty. They were said, okay, that's locked down. The trial is done. Go find Walter. And then it took me after that, it took me about a year and a half to find him. To. To get that arrest in Washington, D.C. oh, wow. But it was. It was worth it. It was worth every minute of it.
- [45:51]
Dr. Leslie
Oh, yeah. It's fucking amazing.
- [45:54]
Dan Bruner
Thank you. Like I said, I had a lot of fun. So a lot of agents in the FBI, they spend 10, 12, 14 years, you know, working the streets of wherever they are working their. Their. Their crime. And then they'll go on to become a supervisor, whether they're tired of working the streets or they want to get a promotion for a little bit more money. I never did that. I never took the promotion. I. And you can choose not to be promoted. You can choose it. You. You know, either you step up to the plate or you don't. And I chose because I loved working the streets. I loved being Putting together the thousand piece jigsaw puzzle. And AUSA I worked for, great ausa, he's out in California, he's out there in LA now. He put it so well. A RICO is a thousand piece jigsaw puzzle and there's thousand different pieces and everything needs to fit together to form the entire picture, which is where we ready for trial. And that's why I worked everything I did during my investigations, I worked hand in hand with the U.S. attorney's office because I was always preparing for trial. I believe it's, it's somewhere like 80, in the mid 80, 85% of FBI investigations never see a day in court. They never see a day in court because so much evidence is collected correctly by the FBI agents legally working with the courts, working with the U.S. attorney's office, that this, that the, that the defendant is overwhelmed. They're like, wow, okay, you got my voice, you got my video, you got informants. And they don't want to do it. They don't want to go to trial because you know, if they go to trial for 25, you know, they could face 20 years if they go to trial, they're like, oh no, if I take a plea, I'll do 10 years. So a lot of times they'll take plea offers and it never sees a day in court. My guys, they were looking at life. So they have nothing to lose. They're like, I can only win unless. But I'm not going to cop and be a snitch. I'm not going to say I admit something. So that's for Ms. 13 world. They never wanted to admit they were a snitch and they never wanted to admit they were guilty.
- [47:54]
Dr. Leslie
I appreciate your explanation of RICO too, because as the Sean Combs trial plays out, I think there's 8 million influencers trying to explain it to the audience. They actually know what it is. And no one has explained it the way that you just did.
- [48:08]
Dan Bruner
Well, it's important with the Sean I've been following that and they're saying it very well. The U.S. attorney's office needs to show that these victims that he was manipulating was to further his music empire, his musical company just committing the crimes of whatever they call them, freak offs or sexual harassment or sexual assault, that in and itself is not a rico. But he is using her to further his criminal, his, you know, music empire. That's the racketeering because that's his organization. He used it. He utilized his music industry as a criminal enterprise to further his criminal enterprise, to make money to utilize people to create the the status around himself. So that's where the RICO is they're charging is a little bit more difficult than MS.13 because you all you to get that is saying a tattoo photographs that's a little bit easier to establish that with this one it'll be a little bit more difficult but I think they're getting there very nicely.
- [49:12]
Dr. Leslie
We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back.
- [49:16]
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- [50:41]
Dan Bruner
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- [52:03]
Dr. Leslie
Okay, question for you. What's the most disturbing thing you've ever experienced or seen?
- [52:15]
Dan Bruner
The most disturbing thing was probably my last case that I helped out on. So Essex County, New Jersey is a county in New Jersey and eastern part of New Jersey, Northeast Jersey. And the Essex county prosecutor's office reached out to me and they said hey, we've got two missing people. Actually, no, they've got one missing person and one victim of a murder. And we believe it's connected to an MS.13 group right here in Irvington, Orange and Newark, New Jersey. Do you know anything about this? Now I was the lead Ms. 13 investigator for the state of New Jersey for the FBI in Newark. So most of it, you know, passed through me. So it was, there was. There's still a lot of members MS.13 that I didn't know. But I was, you know, I was very well known in the, in law enforcement community. So he came to me and they asked me and I had an informant that could provide information and we tapped into him and we found out some information and he went and started talking to this group, you know, using recordings and we were supervising him and we were able to get a location on where not only was we believed the body was, but where they killed the individual. There's a beautiful mansion that had been. Had fallen into disrepair in a beautiful neighborhood in Orange, New Jersey. It literally was a mansion completely overgrown. Nobody had lived there for years. And we walked in there to go look at and there still was furniture. It literally had. People had walked out of there, I'd say five years prior and never sold it. Never. And it's just fallen into disrepair, overgrown everything. And which understood as to why they targeted this. We went to the upstairs bathroom that the informant Told us. And we found a complete, like, murder scene. I mean, it was blood everywhere in the bathtub. So we brought in FBI Evidence Response team for over the course of three days, I believe they processed it took everything meticulously. Pieces of carpet, really were slow to get everything. But now our job was to find the body. And we were told that it was in a state park not too far from the area, that they had taken the body there. And now we'd already identified who these individuals were. We had taken them into custody on probable cause then, and the Essex County Prosecutor's office had taken them into custody based on the information from the tip from the informant. And at which point then we started hunting. We started walking. We literally were walking. We did a, you know, working with my squad, we would walk through the woods and we were pointed as to, okay, it was right here in the woods, this area. We spent days out there. We brought a cadaver dog out there. We spent days looking for this and looking for disrupted soil because it hadn't happened that long in the past, but nothing. We couldn't find anything. And at one point, I remember standing in the woods. I remember standing in the woods there, and I was sitting there going, where is this body? I know it's here. I didn't know where it was. So a few days later, we kept working with these individuals, and a lot of them were 15, 16 years old, and these are young Ms. 13 members. And finally we were able to break one of them. And he said, all right, I'll show you where it's at. He walked out to the woods, and he said. He pointed straight to the ground. He said, here's the body. And it was exactly, I say, within a foot or two of where I was, you know, standing there, was going, I, you know, this is the perfect spot. You're hiding. That's exactly where it was. Who's being hit? But the ground didn't show this. So we started digging, digging, digging. And at three feet, you know, we're thinking that, you know, from the perspective of a, you know, criminal, we're, you know, we're thinking that they're going to bury the body one to two feet and then, you know, leave it there. No, three feet. They're still saying, no, we don't see anything. Keep digging. You're not even close. We got down to six feet down, and we found garbage bags full of body parts. They had chopped up the victim. They had, you know, literally dissected him. Arms, shoulders, legs, put it all together. And that's where they had done it at that house. That's why I was so bloody. And they had dissected this. This young man and buried in there, and that's where the body was, was discovered. That was probably the most disturbing scene, you know, seeing that abandoned house, bloody walls, everything. It was just. It was really kind of like at all. I like a movie, a haunted house movie. It was really special, amazing. It's crazy.
- [56:41]
Dr. Leslie
Did you open the plastic bags to see the body, or is that someone else's job?
- [56:46]
Dan Bruner
Well, the medical examiner was there. He is the one. So the body was discovered, and then the medical examiner was called in from the Essex county, and they are the ones that, you know, to preserve evidence, took the body out. They did open the bag there on scene to be able to positively identify the individual because he had numerous tattoos. He was not gang affiliated, but they just targeted him because they think that he was, you know, encroaching on their territory.
- [57:16]
Dr. Leslie
What was it like for you to.
- [57:17]
Dan Bruner
Small amounts of drugs.
- [57:19]
Dr. Leslie
What was it like for you to see that, to see the bags opening? I mean, like, are there maggots at this point?
- [57:25]
Dan Bruner
No, because he was buried so deep. He was so deep. The body was very well preserved. The body was. And I'd only been there a week or so, maybe two weeks, but the body was very well preserved because it was inside a plastic bag, garbage bag, and it was buried six feet under. So there hadn't had a chance. So when you open up, literally the skin color was, you know, was pink. His still had skin color pink. The tattoos had bright colors, but once it touched air, it immediately started to immediately deteriorate. By the time he had left the scene, the body was already deteriorating very, very rapidly.
- [58:06]
Dr. Leslie
Wow, that's incredible. And such a difficult case to capture. Oh, my God. Okay, I'm gonna hit you with four questions.
- [58:16]
Dan Bruner
Shoot.
- [58:18]
Dr. Leslie
If you could commit a crime and get away with it, what would it be?
- [58:23]
Dan Bruner
Ah, that's a good question. Probably I wouldn't. I wouldn't want anybody to get hurt. I wouldn't want to do anything like that, that somebody would hurt, probably. You know what? I. Sometimes, you know, I've got New Jersey inside of me, so if I could, you know, give somebody a love tap, a little boom, boom, get out of my way type of road rage, I probably would do that just for people to get out of my way sometimes, you know, I'm not very. You know, the drivers in New Jersey and in Montana, they're two different. Two different types of people, two different types of drivers. So I have felt like my life.
- [58:59]
Dr. Leslie
Was going to be threatened in Jersey because of driving.
- [59:02]
Dan Bruner
Oh, yeah, no, no, it's, it's, it's. Without a doubt. It's. If you learn how to drive in New Jersey, you can drive anywhere. It's really. It's crazy.
- [59:12]
Dr. Leslie
Okay, next question. The death penalty question. I love this question because depending on a person's profession, it's always very different. The answer. But if you had to die by death penalty, how would you want to go?
- [59:28]
Dan Bruner
Well, I would not want to feel it. I would want to just. I'd say so, probably lethal injection, because I believe that, you know, I don't have very. A lot of experience in death penalty, but I believe it's. It's kind of like where, you know, you're putting, you know, a dog to sleep or an animal. You go to sleep first and then the second fluid is the one that will stop your heart. I would want to just go to sleep because you do. Gunshot. Maybe you'll live for like five or 10 seconds. Later you get hanging. That's not 100% sure. You know, you may end up choking, hanging there for like 18 minutes, 20 minutes. And electrocution sounds horrific. So I wouldn't want to be elect. I wouldn't want the electric chair. So probably lethal injection.
- [60:14]
Dr. Leslie
I think I would do the same thing. I talked to a scientist and she said she'd want to know at least the studies behind the medications used for the lethal injection, which I agree with.
- [60:26]
Dan Bruner
I would want to know more.
- [60:26]
Dr. Leslie
We want to make sure they're going to be effective.
- [60:28]
Dan Bruner
Exactly.
- [60:30]
Dr. Leslie
Okay, last question.
- [60:33]
Dan Bruner
Yes.
- [60:33]
Dr. Leslie
Can you tell me a secret that no one else knows?
- [60:39]
Dan Bruner
Secret that no one else knows? You know what, it's, it's people that really know me know this, but, you know, the general. I, you know, I am in awe of my wife, of Christine. She is, you know, the best thing that's ever happened to me. She's my best friend. I love working with her. I know a lot of people talk about how, you know, husband, wife, working together, you know, doesn't really work out sometimes. And I couldn't imagine being with anybody else. So, you know, the fact that I, like I said, I'm, you know, she is the person I trust the most on this earth and I run everything by her, and she is absolutely the person I trust the most. And like I said, she's my best friend. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else without her. If I'm not with her, it's, you know, I'm missing Her. And, you know, she's. She's spectacular. You know, she's the CEO of the company, so technically I work for her. But it's. It's. She's. She's so smart. She's spectacular. And like I said, people that know me know how much I. I love her. But like I said, you know, if it's a secret that not everybody else knows, that's. That's the fact is I. I mean, I'm lucky. Lucky to have met her, you know, we met later in life, you know, when I was 39 and she was 38, or, you know, fortunate enough to have two wonderful children together. And like I said, I'm GLAD I waited 39 years for her.
- [62:05]
Dr. Leslie
The secret is that you're mushy.
- [62:08]
Dan Bruner
Don't tell anybody.
- [62:10]
Dr. Leslie
I had one question that I forgot to ask about changing a law, which I really would love your answer on. If you could change a law in America, what would that be?
- [62:18]
Dan Bruner
Changed a law in America? Well, in today's environment, that's a really good question. You know, it changes constantly. You know, it's. That's a really good question. If I could change a law, you know, change an existing law or create a law, you know, if I was, you know, in Congress and just, boom, just make a new law, I would make it. You know, I'm glad that there are. There are so many rules in the court system to make sure that every agent, every law enforcement officer follows the rules correctly. And people. I've been questioned. I get put on the stand during my trials, I was questioned about everything that I did, but everything was precise to the point and making sure that everything was done correctly and legally above board. And I never, ever broke a rule, broke a law to get my cases, to get my people to the position. I'd rather do it completely legally. So that. That's a question that really, you'd have to sit down and really think about because, you know, the laws that are in place, you know, and I'm going to cop out on this one. I apologize. I'm going to cop out on the last question, because the laws that are in place are good. Are good. They're there for a reason. I think it would, you know, it'd be something that affects me personally up here in Montana, whether it be, you know, I don't have to register my vehicle once a year and, you know, pay Montana, you know, the Montana registration fees, which, you know, cost me like 500 a car once a year, whereas in New Jersey, you don't have to do it every couple years here. It's every year. And that's how they collect. That's how we don't have state income tax. So it's probably something here in Montana, but I wouldn't change. I mean, it's absolutely beautiful up here and I love it that I've retired up here with, with Christine and the kids. So it's so probably something along those lines.
- [64:26]
Dr. Leslie
I like that. I mean, you work for the government, you're happy with it.
- [64:29]
Dan Bruner
Yeah, you know. Yeah, I don't. You know, personally, I haven't seen something that's off the top of my head that would say, oh, that's gotta change. You know, And I'm sure there is something I'll think of later on in like an hour or two. I'll be like, oh, I should have said that. But it's nothing that sticks right off the top of my head. I mean, I'm pretty happy having worked. Like I said, I worked international terrorism, I worked domestic terrorism. I chased white supremacists in New Jersey, which supposedly, you know, by the way, is one of the worst states in this. In the, in the union for white supremacists and then the MS.13 and the cartels. So, you know, I've been around different types of federal statutes, federal crimes and stuff like that. So. So those are the, you know, I'm pretty familiar with those. So. But yeah.
- [65:15]
Dr. Leslie
Thank you for doing this.
- [65:17]
Dan Bruner
Oh, Leslie. Doc, it was my pleasure. You know, I, I think like.
- [65:22]
Dr. Leslie
So you're gonna put. Start a podcast. We just don't know where it's going to land, but.
- [65:26]
Dan Bruner
Right, so I'm in.
- [65:27]
Dr. Leslie
You have your website. What's your website?
- [65:29]
Dan Bruner
So my website is bruner sierragroup.com and I've got a sub stack also which is Bruner Sierra Group substack. So you can sign up for the newsletter on. On substack. And I'm on Instagram too. Bruno Sierra Group. And I'm on Twitter as Daniel Bruner1 on Twitter. I don't use Twitter that much. That is very, very. I don't tweet that much. I just watch everything that's happening. There's a lot on Twitter is, you know, bots and things like that. So you really got to take it with a grain of salt. Instagram, you know, I collaborate with you and yes, I'm in talks with some people to partner up with a very, very good friend of mine, one of probably one of my best friends that he and I known each other since we were Nine years old and he has a vast, large experience. I'm, I won't get into it because we haven't like into his background, but he was in the military, vast, large experience in the military. And he and I have known each other since we're nine years old. And we, we are like two peas in a pod. So there is talks about us launching a web podcast and there's a lot of people that are interested. So I've already got five guests who want to launch get in it and so we're looking to launch within the next couple weeks. I've got a couple meetings set up here in the next couple days to find out more if there's, if there's sufficient interest.
- [66:51]
Dr. Leslie
I'm excited for you.
- [66:53]
Dan Bruner
Thank you.
- [66:53]
Dr. Leslie
I'll be a guest.
- [66:55]
Dan Bruner
No, you, we've already got you lined up. So you. And like I said, four other people have already been, you know, we've gotten verbal commitments that they're excited about. It's gonna, it's gonna cover lots of different subjects. So we're not gonna just talk about true crime. Yeah. We're gonna talk about FBI cases. I'll have FBI agents on. We'll have members of the military that, you know, my friend has been affiliated with and he knows they're talking about their stories. But this is not a battle story, you know, type of podcast to say, well this is what happened. When we come in, we're going to have those, but we're going to talk about larger subjects. Subject, you know, topics that really impact something like you. Mental health, you know, ptsd, men's mental health, women's mental health. So we're going to cover a lot of different topics. A lot of different great people are, said they're excited about it, so we're looking forward to it. We'll, we'll get you more and once we launch, we'll, we'll let you know.
- [67:47]
Dr. Leslie
Yeah, I'll.
- [67:48]
Dan Bruner
Come on.
- [67:48]
Dr. Leslie
We'll talk about Charles Manson and acceleration. That's what's reoccurring. Okay. Thank you for doing this.
- [67:56]
Dan Bruner
Thank you, Doc. I appreciate it and look forward to it again.
- [68:01]
Dr. Leslie
Oh, hey, you're here.
- [68:06]
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- [69:08]
Dan Bruner
Hula we got one play.
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- [71:03]
Dr. Leslie
All that available@meaningful beauty.com thanks for watching and listening to Intentionally Disturbing. I'll see you next time. Intentionally Disturbing is a podcast from me, Dr. Leslie. It's distributed by iHeartMedia. Liam Billingham is the senior producer and he also edits the show and puts up with my Katie Cobbs does the social media and she attempts to keep me in my lane. Not always successful. The executive producers are Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media who have told me not to text them 24 7. But you know what? I'm still the boss. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next week for more.
- [71:56]
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Dan Bruner
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Dr. Leslie
Best part?
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Dan Bruner
They both taste great so make the most out of your morning with a bite of Belvita.
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- [73:59]
Dr. Leslie
This is an iHeart podcast.