Gabe Rosales: From The Stage to the Cell and Back Again.

Summary

Detailed Summary of "Gabe Rosales: From The Stage to the Cell and Back Again"

Podcast Title: Intentionally Disturbing
Host: Dr. Leslie
Guest: Gabe Rosales
Release Date: May 1, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Gabe Rosales: From The Stage to the Cell and Back Again," Dr. Leslie engages in a profound and candid conversation with Gabe Rosales, a seasoned bass player who has experienced the highs of touring with major artists like Jennifer Lopez and the lows of incarceration. The discussion delves into Gabe's tumultuous journey through the music industry, his struggles with addiction, time in prison, and his ongoing efforts in criminal justice reform and rehabilitation.

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Gabe's Early Life and Musical Career [02:49 – 05:37]

Gabe Rosales introduces himself as a professional musician who embarked on a demanding career straight out of high school. He toured with a metal band and gradually progressed to playing with high-profile acts in Los Angeles, including Jennifer Lopez, Cypress Hill's Send Dog, and Sheena Easton.

Gabe Rosales [04:18]: "I grew up in an alcoholic household, so some of these bad habits kind of got worse as I was touring."

The pressures of the music industry and being surrounded by seasoned musicians exposed Gabe to heavy drug use, including alcohol and cocaine, which he used as coping mechanisms to handle the intimidation and expectations placed upon him.

Gabe Rosales [05:07]: "It's like being a child kid star. It's like eventually you're gonna get old and you're not gonna be relevant anymore."

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Descent into Addiction and Incarceration [05:37 – 09:35]

As Gabe's career advanced, so did his substance abuse, leading to severe health issues. At 25, doctors diagnosed him with liver damage, prompting his downward spiral into deeper addiction and eventual incarceration for aggravated assault.

Gabe Rosales [05:59]: "When I was 25 years old, the doctors told me I had the liver of a 70-year-old man."

His time in prison became a pivotal turning point, exposing him to the stark realities of the criminal justice system, including racial dynamics, gang hierarchies, and the harsh conditions within California's carceral facilities.

Gabe Rosales [08:11]: "I ended up getting locked up for a little bit, and that was a catalyzing moment in my life."

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Life Inside Jail: Experience and Reflections [09:35 – 18:02]

During his incarceration, Gabe reflected deeply on his actions and the systemic issues within the prison system. He faced the immediate consequences of his violent behavior, including an altercation that led to physical harm to someone he cared about.

Gabe Rosales [10:16]: "I threw a chair, a plate. I started... I wanted to break everything in the house."

Gabe advocates for empathy and understanding, emphasizing that many incarcerated individuals have unresolved traumas and that harsh incarceration does not address the root causes of criminal behavior.

Gabe Rosales [12:22]: "It's a wake-up call, you know, it's like you can't. You have to face that at some point."

He distinguishes between jail and prison, highlighting how legislation like Prop 47 in California has blurred these lines, leading to longer incarcerations in county jails that were initially intended for short-term detentions.

Gabe Rosales [14:25]: "Jails are supposed to be short term... but now, because of certain legislation in California, you could serve up to five to 10 years in county jail."

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Prison Dynamics and Correctional Systems [18:02 – 35:32]

Gabe provides an in-depth look into the inner workings of prisons, discussing the corruption among correctional officers, the illicit drug trade within, and the self-governed inmate hierarchies that maintain order.

Gabe Rosales [28:43]: "Some guys would come in, just mess with us, shoot pepper spray into ourselves just for fun."

He explains how inmates often have to navigate a complex ecosystem of protection, reciprocity, and internal discipline without relying on the corrupt correctional staff.

Gabe Rosales [34:09]: "We had this reciprocal ecosystem. Because someone that's incarcerated might make the CO's life easier by doing something like making sure that this other drama is squashed."

Gabe recounts the challenges of maintaining one's integrity and the constant pressure to conform to gang-related expectations, further complicating rehabilitation efforts.

Gabe Rosales [33:49]: "It's community and protection... it's part of running the facility."

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Rehabilitation and Working with Inmates [35:32 – 57:09]

After his release, Gabe pivoted towards education and rehabilitation. He pursued higher education, earning a bachelor's degree in criminology and entering a Ph.D. program at the University of California, Irvine. His experiences in prison led him to work with programs like "Jail Guitar Doors," where he teaches songwriting and music therapy to incarcerated individuals, aiming to provide them with creative outlets for processing emotions and traumas.

Gabe Rosales [09:35]: "My whole goal too is whatever I'm researching is to be able to put that out in other means... Maybe I'll do another podcast."

He emphasizes the importance of restorative justice and addressing the traumas that lead individuals to commit crimes, advocating for a system that supports both victims and rehabilitated individuals.

Gabe Rosales [61:16]: "We should be working on ways to have them both heal at the same time."

Gabe also critiques the current prison system's focus on punishment over rehabilitation, highlighting the need for systemic changes to support reintegration and reduce recidivism.

Gabe Rosales [59:28]: "Prisons aren't the answer. At least the way prisons are right now in California."

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Call to Action and Future Endeavors [58:50 – 66:16]

In concluding the episode, Gabe urges listeners to engage with their communities through volunteer work, mentorship programs, and supporting reentry initiatives that help prevent individuals from falling back into the criminal justice system.

Gabe Rosales [65:22]: "It's so powerful. And if more people did that, then it's like, a lot less kids would go through the crack, fall through the cracks, and we'd be spending less money too."

He outlines his future plans, including completing his Ph.D., releasing another music album, and possibly expanding his outreach through platforms like YouTube to further advocate for prison reform and rehabilitative programs.

Gabe Rosales [64:00]: "Go volunteer at your local jail or prison for sure... you’d have a completely different perception of who’s inside."

Gabe concludes by expressing gratitude for the opportunity to share his story and hopes that listeners will take his message to heart and contribute to meaningful change.

Gabe Rosales [66:04]: "I hope people listen and take pay attention."

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Notable Quotes

• Gabe Rosales [05:07]:

  "It's like being a child kid star. It's like eventually you're gonna get old and you're not gonna be relevant anymore."

• Gabe Rosales [09:41]:

  "The worst thing I've ever done is almost murdered two people."

• Gabe Rosales [28:43]:

  "It's a reciprocal ecosystem... the residents, the people that are living there are running everything because we're the ones who do the discipline."

• Dr. Leslie [59:35]:

  "Prisons aren't the answer. At least the way prisons are right now in California."

• Gabe Rosales [65:22]:

  "If more people did that, then it's like, a lot less kids would go through the crack, fall through the cracks, and we'd be spending less money too."

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Conclusion

"Gabe Rosales: From The Stage to the Cell and Back Again" offers a raw and insightful exploration into the complexities of addiction, the pitfalls of the criminal justice system, and the transformative power of education and rehabilitation. Through Gabe's experiences, Dr. Leslie highlights critical issues within prisons and underscores the importance of empathy, restorative justice, and systemic reform to foster meaningful change both for incarcerated individuals and society at large.

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Notable Mention: The episode also includes interspersed segments promoting other iHeartPodcasts shows such as "United States of Kennedy" and "Afterlives," though these are excluded from the main content summary as per guidelines.

Transcript

[Dr. Leslie]

This is an Iheart podcast.

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So what happened to Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.

There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.

Left a woman behind to drown.

Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Maybe you've heard that Stonewall was a riot, where queer people fought back against police, or that it's the reason pride is celebrated this time of year.

[Gabe Rosales]

It was one of the most liberating things that I have ever done.

[Unknown Host]

Legend says Marsha P. Johnson threw the very first brick started banging on the.

[Gabe Rosales]

Door of the Stonewall like one.

[Dr. Leslie]

Boom.

[Unknown Host]

This week on Afterlives, we'll separate the truth from the myth in the life of Marsha P. Johnson. Listen to afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from.

Iheart Podcast before social media, before cable news, there was Alan Byrd.

[Gabe Rosales]

He was the first and the original Shock Chuck, that scratchy, irreverent kind of way of talking to people and telling them that you're an idiot and I'm gonna hang up on you.

[Unknown Host]

This is Live Wire, the loud life and shocking of Alan Berg.

And he pointed to the Denver phone book and said, well, there are probably 2 million suspects.

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dr. Leslie]

Oh, hey, you're here. My name is Dr. Leslie, and this is Intentionally Disturbing. Today I got to speak with Gabe Rosales. Gabe is an incredible bass player. He toured with JLo, but he was also in prison for a while. So we're going to talk about the dynamics of the music industry, but we're also going to talk about the realities of prison and life after prison. I hope you enjoy the episode and I hope you learn a little bit about what's real versus what you have been told in other news outlets. Oh, hey, you're here. Welcome to intentionally disturbing. I'm Dr. Leslie and I'm here with Gabe Rosales. Now, I could try and introduce you. I'm gonna try. Okay. He's done some really bad things. He was in prison, then he did some really good things. He's still friends with some really bad people, and he's gonna change the world.

[Gabe Rosales]

That's part of it, man. For sure. That's on the agenda for sure for today specifically.

[Dr. Leslie]

Can you give us kind of a brief intro of kind of who you are?

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes. Yeah, I do lots of things. I am a veteran of Unspeakable things. Actually, this is Charlie Sheen's thing. So I'm a professional musician by trade.

[Dr. Leslie]

Oh, I left that part out, of course.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes.

[Dr. Leslie]

Damn. I was all like, oh, gore. Okay.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, so just a professional musician went on tour right out of high school with a metal band. So I basically kind of, kind of grew up in my early, like, 20s, in my formative years, in my early adulthood on the road with a metal band and. But I grew up in an alcoholic household, so some of these bad habits kind of got worse as I was touring and as the gigs got better, progressively in terms of, like, started playing with more high profile acts. You know, Jennifer Lopez, Send Dog from Cypress Hill, Sheena Easton, a bunch of different random people in the pop world in Los Angeles.

[Dr. Leslie]

What was it like rolling with, like, such high, powerful, big people?

[Gabe Rosales]

It was intimidating at first, but I think that's the reason why I started getting into hard drugs was because I could deal with it by being drunk and doing cocaine and just acting kind of crazy.

[Dr. Leslie]

And deal with what, though?

[Gabe Rosales]

Just like, being young and having that kind of. And being in that situation and then also being expected to Perform a certain way. Like, I really think that like a lot of the addiction, that the pressure was like, you know, it's like being a child kid star. It's like eventually you're gonna get old and you're not gonna be relevant anymore. Nobody's gonna give a. And like, yeah, you're a great musician now in 19 and like everybody, you're better than, you know, most 19 year olds. But then as by the time you're 22, nobody gives a because there's like a 10 year old that can kick your ass. You know what I mean?

[Dr. Leslie]

So it's like, so if you're on like coke and meth, you can perform really well, really fast. You can always turn it on.

[Gabe Rosales]

You can just shred. That's what it is. Fingers burning. So that's what it was. Well, but I mean, yeah, I mean, and that just kind of came later too because I was playing with older musicians that weren't really. I was the youngest person on the tour. And these are seasoned musicians doing seasoned drugs. Designer drugs.

[Dr. Leslie]

Expensive.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, expensive drugs. And then of course, Saturday Night Live is, you know, whole thing within itself. There's an after party after Saturday Night Live and then there's an after after party.

[Dr. Leslie]

Oh yeah, like a freak off.

[Gabe Rosales]

Not like that close. No baby oil, but it was. Yeah, it was dark, it was dimly lit. There was candles.

[Dr. Leslie]

Is that like a Hollywood media music thing? Like you have after party, after party, after party. I guess you're just ruling out anyone who's not going to let you like stick it in an orifice or.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, it just gets weirder and weirder and then you're allowed to just do weirder drugs. I don't even know if it's a Hollywood thing. I would just say like I've as a maybe just a drug addict entertainer thing, like, because I've. That kind of was like the norm for most things that I attended. Like I have friends that were DJs and same thing would happen when they were DJing. Like, yeah, it's like after party of the DJ, you know, and then like, okay, now we're going to this warehouse and he. I'm gonna DJ some more. We're gonna do another set and like do more drugs there.

[Dr. Leslie]

More of a drug addict led thing than a profession led thing. Maybe.

[Gabe Rosales]

Ish. Yeah, for sure. And it's just like. And then also being able to, you know, I mean the whole SNL thing was like, obviously the cast members that partook in those things, they could do it without being judged. If they wanted to like the drugs, like the harder drugs and stuff like that. So then I started kind of going in that world and health started deteriorating. When I was 25 years old, the doctors told me I had the liver of a 70 year old man. And so then, yeah, it just progressively got worse. I ended up getting in trouble. I got locked up for a little bit. And that was a catalyzing moment in my life where, you know, I got to see the criminal justice system up close and personal and experience the racial dynamics in California carcel facilities to understand the politics, you know, the racial dynamics, the gangs, the, the designations if you will. There's a hierarchy of criminality in prison and carceral spaces. Right. Some crimes are looked upon, you know, less favorably than others are. And so I learned about that, got out of jail and. Or recorded my first solo album, went back to school because I had no, you know, formal education right out of high school I was on tour and.

[Dr. Leslie]

Then out of prison you recorded.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, solo album. Right then at 2009 is when I released my first album with a bunch of different people, you know, just kind of musicians and you know, high profile musicians that I'd worked with over, over time and then went back to school. I got a bachelor's degree in criminology at the University of California, Irvine. And that was. I graduated 2017 and I got into law school in 2018 actually and I started teaching in a, a prison because I found this amazing, you know, nonprofit jail guitar doors. I'm wearing the shirt right now. It's a rehabilitative songwriting class that where you go in and some of the guys get guitars and we, you know, kind of take this trajectory through their life. And so I found that in 2018 it changed my life. I withdrew from law school, applied to a PhD program and now I'm in the fifth year doctoral student in University of California, Irvine in the criminology department and studying prison policy, housing policy and all this stuff like that. And I work on a bunch of projects and trying to further theoretical frameworks and all this other academic jargon and stuff like that. So yes, life is full and it's interesting. Yes.

[Dr. Leslie]

And you've got a lady and kids?

[Gabe Rosales]

I do, yes, yes. Been with the Same female for 21 years, two stepdaughters, 24, 28. Very proud of both of them. And it's just keeps me grounded, you know, and it keeps me. And I appreciate them more from working with prison guys in prison and stuff, just knowing where people came from, you know, that kind of Thing.

[Dr. Leslie]

I have so many questions.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes.

[Dr. Leslie]

Okay. What's the worst thing you've ever done?

[Gabe Rosales]

Oh, man, the worst. Almost murdered two people. I think that's pretty bad.

[Dr. Leslie]

Ooh. What happened? How come you didn't complete the mission?

[Gabe Rosales]

Well, no, I was just, you know, just being drunk and angry. And this is one of the things that kind of gave me empathy for people that I work with inside now is because it's actually pretty easy to almost kill people. You'd be surprised.

[Dr. Leslie]

Really?

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, if you're super angry. I mean. I mean, we'll imagine being at a bar, and somebody. You get in an altercation, and you hit somebody, and they fall back and hit their head, they're dead. Right. That kind of thing that happens.

[Dr. Leslie]

What went down with your almost murder?

[Gabe Rosales]

Just, you know, threw a temper tantrum when somebody told me something I didn't like, the domestic violence thing, you know what I mean? And, you know, started throwing things, and then. Yeah, and then, you know, somebody cared about, got hurt, and. And then I left and tried to find the other person and tried to hurt them, too. And so I wasn't actually arrested that night. I ended up having to turn myself in. I was incarcerated. I actually got a really good deal on the, you know, this, what they call wobblers in California. Go felony or misdemeanor. And because I didn't really have any prior criminal history other than a DUI then, you know, I was able to get kind of this sentence reduced from years to months in county jail. So I actually just did jail time. No prison time, but I was there for a little bit, you know, and I got pretty acclimated to the carceral politics, you know.

[Dr. Leslie]

I want you to explain the difference between jail and prison, but I also. I want to just understand a little bit more about the assault that took place. Like, were you. Were there weapons? Like, what. What happened that leads to that kind of sentence? And then being in jail.

[Gabe Rosales]

I threw a chair, a plate. I started. I wanted to break everything in the house. And so a big, heavy wooden chair hit, you know, somebody I cared about in the head, and they had to go to the hospital, and that was it. And then I went. I got a knife. I went to someplace else to go find somebody else. I was in a drunken rage. I was really hurt, you know, anger being, like, the secondary emotion. I was most. Mostly hurt and angry, you know, or mostly hurt and stuff. And, I mean, I grew up in an alcoholic household, too, and so I've seen my. My dad. I mean, there's no you know, excuse for this, of course, but I think that was how I kind of first saw, you know, somebody handling bad news. My one mother got divorced from my dad and she gave him the papers. He threw, went to a rage and he started throwing across the table and threw out the door. And he got pretty violent too. That was one of my worst memories as a child. Eight years old, seeing that your dad.

[Dr. Leslie]

You saw your dad throw your mom across the table?

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes. Yeah. When. And you know, he wasn't. I don't think he was even drunk at that time, so. There's lots of things I did too while I was drinking that, you know, violent. No acts that I did when, you know, I'd get drunk and angry. And so I only got caught for a fraction of what I did. So I felt like I kind of made out like a bandit, I guess.

[Dr. Leslie]

Yeah.

[Gabe Rosales]

But, you know, it's a wake up call, you know, it's like you can't. You have to face that at some point. And I had so many other unresolved traumas and different things that I hadn't ever dealt with before. And this was like a real wake up call, you know, getting. Being incarcerated, having all your freedom taken aways is. It's eye opening and makes you feel helpless. And I was very fortunate too, though, because I had an end date. I knew when it was going to end. I knew when I was gonna be getting out.

[Dr. Leslie]

What was it like when you sobered up and you were incarcerated?

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, that was. I woke up crying multiple times. You know, just because it's like you. The feeling of not, you know, you can't go anywhere and you're in a cell and you're. And the reality. Actually a lot of my first album was based off of the experiences of things that I was, you know, that happened while I was incarcerated. It's like your family comes to visit you on the weekends. They're behind a piece of glass, they care about you, they tell you they love you, but in reality, like, they can't do anything, you know, like to physically help you or like protect you. So you have to pick a side. Right. And like at this time in California, you know, the traditional, I call them traditional, like prison politics, the general population, the gp. Right. It's like separated racially. Mexicans, black, white, others. Right. And so you're with your own group of people, your own, your own race. And so those are the only people that I considered family, really, at the time when I was inside, because that's. That's who takes care of you, you know, your family can't do anything for you. They protect you. They are the ones. But then they also call on you to do certain things, right? Because that's your payment back to the group.

[Dr. Leslie]

This is in jail and in prison.

[Gabe Rosales]

That's correct, yes.

[Dr. Leslie]

So jail is technically in California, what, supposed to be a year or under.

[Gabe Rosales]

Now because of different legislation, Prop 47, realignment. Some people that have, you know, sentences that last five to ten years. They could spend that in county, which is a big problem.

[Dr. Leslie]

That would be horrible.

[Gabe Rosales]

It's horrible because, I mean, jails aren't. So jails are supposed to be short term, right? People get arrested, they get put in jail, they wait for the court date, they go there. It's supposed to be short term, like. Like you said, because. And the reality is that I think it's. Two thirds of the people that are in jails have not been convicted of a crime yet. And that's the whole bail, you know, controversy, where it's like, if you can't afford to get out, if you can't afford to pay your bail, then you have to stay in jail. So it's kind of like punishing you for not having money, even though you haven't been convicted of a crime yet. So it's kind of this transitory place. You're waiting in court, you know, in jail to go to court. And then once you get sentenced, depending on your sentence, you either stay in jail, if it's short, or you go upstate to prison where you serve your entire term out there. But now, because of, you know, certain legislation in California, you could serve up to five to 10 years in county jail.

[Dr. Leslie]

So I've never seen so many flaccid penises as I have in the Los Angeles County Jail.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes, yes. Flaccid.

[Dr. Leslie]

Flaccid.

[Gabe Rosales]

All of them are.

[Dr. Leslie]

Well, when. When they came in. No, when they got medicated.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes, they got medicated. Yes.

[Dr. Leslie]

But I mean, the jail, they refer to it as a monkey pen.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes. Well, I mean, it. 100 is like that, you know, it's like. And you don't see. I mean, at least for. I mean, I'll give you my perspective. Like, you know, I didn't see very many females. Right. The only time I. And I was taking blood pressure medication at the time, I was 206 pounds. I'm only 5 6. So I guess the good thing about Gel was I was working out.

[Dr. Leslie]

But he looks six, too.

[Gabe Rosales]

That's right. I look.

[Dr. Leslie]

For anyone just listening, super tall.

[Gabe Rosales]

Super tall. I'm A baller. I can dunk. So, I mean, you know, I didn't see females very often, so. Yeah, that's why I didn't have a. You know, most people had flaccid penises, but.

[Dr. Leslie]

Oh. So that you would assume they'd all be more erect.

[Gabe Rosales]

Something. Yeah, it depends on, you know, the place you're at.

[Dr. Leslie]

I mean, if I walked in.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes. 100. Yes. Well, so, for example, you know, I was on medication while I was there, and so there's a medication girl. There's a big line of guys waiting to get their medication at the front door. Right. And it was, you know, it was like clockwork. Every single time you go to see the meds girl, guys turn around and we can make sure they look good before, you know, before they go see the meds girl. And then they walk away and they're like, oh, yeah, I think she likes me. And it's just like, yeah, she likes all 280 of us, for sure.

[Dr. Leslie]

I remember because the cologne would be so strong, and I would be like, why are you spending your money on cologne when you don't have a lot of money and you're locked in here, like, buy a sausage. They loved buying sausages. And they. I would just be hit every time I walked in with all these guys coming up and saying hi with their cologne.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yep. And they're smelling your perfume, too, because that permeates the entire building. You know what I mean?

[Dr. Leslie]

Like, which I did on purpose. Yeah, I wore that on purpose.

[Gabe Rosales]

Well, thank you for. On behalf of the guys inside, because it seriously probably made the entire week. I'm telling you the truth, for sure.

[Dr. Leslie]

So how long were you in there?

[Gabe Rosales]

Just months. It was really short time.

[Dr. Leslie]

Yeah.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie]

It could have been life.

[Gabe Rosales]

It could have been, or. I think seven to 10 years is what I was looking at. And the charge was aggravated assault, a deadly weapon battery with a corporal injury.

[Dr. Leslie]

Break that down. Aggravated assault.

[Gabe Rosales]

What's a deadly weapon?

[Dr. Leslie]

What was the weapon? The knife at the end?

[Gabe Rosales]

Well, no, I never got busted for that. Oh, it was a chair place.

[Dr. Leslie]

Okay.

[Gabe Rosales]

All. Everything I was throwing at the house when I was going crazy, and. And then. Yeah, and then. Yeah, battery and With a corporal injury.

[Dr. Leslie]

Because, you know, in corporal injury means.

[Gabe Rosales]

Like, a bodily harm. So.

[Dr. Leslie]

Okay.

[Gabe Rosales]

Go to the hospital, get staples. So. Yeah, nothing I'm proud of. And that's. That's one of the things, too, about, you know, people that are serving time for these kinds of things is that it's the worst moment of your life. It's. You at your worst place. And so, you know, I feel. I've been sober for 17 years now, so I feel like I've changed. I've. I don't even consider myself the same person that I was before. I can't imagine being in prison still serving a sentence on something like that because of how different I am as a human being. You know what I mean? So.

[Dr. Leslie]

Well, that's a good question to ask. I mean, you work in prison now and you're with people who committed rape. Serial killing, murder, or serial killer. A serial killer is two or more kills in a. Yeah, I think it's.

[Gabe Rosales]

Linear fashion or something like that. Yeah. Or if you do it a couple times, like at different times, it's not like, you know, you. You do it all at one time. It's different.

[Dr. Leslie]

But you're in with guys who are considered serial killers.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes.

[Dr. Leslie]

And rapists, and you're working with them now, and some of them did it when they were really young.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes.

[Dr. Leslie]

So is that a part of how you. I don't want to say justify, but is that allow yourself to empathize and. And try to treat them?

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah. Well, so the way. The way I kind of work it is like, I don't necessarily look at myself because I'm not a clinician, so I'm not treating them necessarily, or I'm just trying to help them process.

[Dr. Leslie]

You're schooling them?

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, in some ways. Well, in a couple different ways. Because as a musician. Right. Like the kind of. As a professional musician, like, they look up to me in terms of my musical ability, but also my story. And I try to, like, advocate for sobriety because drugs are prevalent in prison in carceral spaces. So if guys are, you know, on drugs, then I want them to help. Help them get sober and, like, try to be that positive influence on them when we're in class. But. But also just to show them there's a different way to live and that they're not. They're not their worst mistake. Right. There's a lot of the guys have. You're right. They did commit their crimes when they were very young. And I mean, now one of my colleagues at UCI, I mean, her research specifically shows. And it, you know, they use it in court cases to end the death penalty for youth as well as life without the possibility of parole with youth, because your brain is not developed right before all the way up to 25. And so a lot of the guys that were incarcerated when they're 15 to, you know, 24, their brains weren't Fully developed. And, you know, there's so many people that argue about that and say they're an adult, legally 18 years old. But if you. If you were. I mean, imagine having fetal alcohol syndrome. You know, your parents did drugs and then you stopped growing. You have an eighth grade education. And then there's just so many factors that are involved with this.

[Dr. Leslie]

Is it different being in prison with fellow inmates and like, okaying what they did versus now coming in with this knowledge and life experience trying to help them? How does it change your perspective of the heinous crimes they committed?

[Gabe Rosales]

Well, I mean, I. I consider, like, my situation. Right. It's like I. I feel like I. If I would have kept going on the same path or if I just would have been. If I would have thrown one more thing, or if, you know, I just would have hit somebody in the right way, then, like, I would. Could have been them very much. Like, often I realized that it just. It's kind of luck that I. That didn't happen to me. So that's how I was able to empathize, you know, generally with people. Some of the crimes, obviously, I can't relate to at all. It's just. It's so dark. The thing is, though, I don't. We don't get into. In my class specifically, I try to avoid knowing what they did because we take them through a trajectory of their life history. Kind of like childhood trauma, anger and resentment, accountability, responsibility. Everybody writes in their journals about this, and then we make a song out of it. So it's like rehabilitative music therapy. Right. So we don't necessarily have to get into the nature of the crimes they committed. Sometimes the guys don't want to talk about that. They might just talk about their victims. So it's kind of easier to kind of understand that because I feel like I have, you know, I have victims too. Right. In more ways than one. Not just from the crime that I committed, but also just from being a scumbag. Like, you know, when I was, like, doing drugs, selling drugs, and just being violent and being angry drunk. Right.

[Dr. Leslie]

Do you think, though, that the psychopathic guys in there can be rehabilitated?

[Gabe Rosales]

It's a good question.

[Dr. Leslie]

I mean, just like, help them get their rocks off their music.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, well, that's one of the things. It's like sometimes my whole point is it's like, to help them at least creatively understand their emotions. So at least, if anything, they have emotions. Well, also, yeah. Sociopaths, they don't. Yeah, well, I mean.

[Dr. Leslie]

Well, what do you think because you see them jamming out, they like music, you, you feel emotion coming out.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes. And there's, there's passion in the music. So if anything, it's just like an art form or something that they like to get good at or have fun with. Right. But I don't work with that many guys like that. Like, I wouldn't say serial killers necessarily. Most of them, you know, a lot of them are, you know, guys that are, you know, old gang members, you know, which I can relate to in some ways. Domestic violence stuff or they, you know, they hurt somebody like that and then. And, or they were young and, you know, they made some horrible decisions. So I don't really have a lot of sociopaths that I work with that I think that I would be able to look at. There's only one dude that I know that I'm, you know, he's kind of textbook, I think, where he's just a good looking guy, very charismatic. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I might have to take an alarm when I go into work with this dude, but.

[Dr. Leslie]

Does he wear very large glasses?

[Gabe Rosales]

No, he doesn't.

[Dr. Leslie]

Okay.

[Gabe Rosales]

No, no. Right.

[Dr. Leslie]

Is he Caucasian?

[Gabe Rosales]

No, he isn't. He isn't. But it's like, we'll see. I mean, I'm not sure he's a, he's a drummer, so most drummers are sussy path. I'm just kidding.

[Dr. Leslie]

Why? Because they just want to like beat the everything now.

[Gabe Rosales]

I'm just kidding. They're not real musicians. Just kidding. Family? Yeah. No, so I, I don't really work with people like that necessarily. But we. It. My, my classes change every 10 weeks, so I get a, you know, different dose of, of different people and different crimes. But I try to avoid, for the most part. Some of my guys are high profile though, so it's like, it's. There's no way to avoid, you know, knowing what they did because it's been in the news.

[Dr. Leslie]

Yeah.

[Gabe Rosales]

You know, so. But my job, they're already in prison, so my job isn't to go in there and judge them further. Right. And then 95% of the people that are incarcerated and be out at some point. So I want to make sure that they have some kind of creative way to process these emotions. Anger. And then also, I mean, I can't tell you, many times guys just fall apart and crying, you know, when they get to childhood. Right. Start talking about what they dealt with as victims themselves Right. Before they victimize somebody else. Does that make sense?

[Dr. Leslie]

Yeah, Yeah. I Mean, I. I go both ways with it. Like, yeah, a lot of people are victimized, and they don't go kill people.

[Gabe Rosales]

Exactly.

[Dr. Leslie]

They don't rape people. We're gonna take a quick break, and we'll be right back.

[Unknown Host]

So what happened to Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.

There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.

Left a woman behind to drown.

There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News. It's teddy escapes, Blonde drowns. And in a strange way, Right, that sort of tells you the story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president?

Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.

And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal.

The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

From. Iheart Podcasts. Before social media, before the Internet, before cable news, there was Alan Berg.

You dig what I do. You have a need. Unfortunately, you have no sense of humor. That's why you can't ever enjoy this show, and that's why you're a loser.

[Gabe Rosales]

He was the first and the original shock jock. That scratchy, irreverent kind of way of talking to people.

[Unknown Host]

You're as dumb as the rest.

[Gabe Rosales]

That's.

[Unknown Host]

I can't take anyone.

[Gabe Rosales]

I don't agree with you all the time.

[Unknown Host]

I don't want you to. I. I hope that you pick me apart.

His voice changed media. His death shocked the nation.

[Gabe Rosales]

And it makes me so angry that.

[Unknown Host]

He got himself killed because he had a big mouth.

KOA morning talk show host Alan Berg.

[Gabe Rosales]

Reportedly was shot and killed tonight in downtown Denver.

[Unknown Host]

Pointed to the Denver phone book and said, well, There are probably 2 million suspects. This guy aggravated everybody.

From iheart podcasts, this is Live Wire. The loud life and shocking murder of Alan Berg. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Maybe you've heard that Stonewall was a riot where queer people fought back against police, or that it's the reason pride is celebrated this time of year.

[Gabe Rosales]

It was one of the most liberating things that I have ever done.

[Unknown Host]

But did you know that before it went down in history, the Stonewall was a queer hangout run by the mafia.

[Gabe Rosales]

The voguing at Stonewall was unbelievable.

[Unknown Host]

In the summer of 1969, it became the site that set off the modern movement for LGBTQ rights.

[Gabe Rosales]

Started banging on the door of the Stonewall like one boom, boom, boom.

[Unknown Host]

Legend says Marsha P. Johnson, a mother in the fight for trans rights, threw the very first brick. She was really like, scrubbed out of that history. This week on Afterlives, we'll separate the truth from the myth in the life of Marsha P. Johnson. Listen to afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

How could a beautiful young first grade teacher be stabbed 20 times, including in the back, allegedly die of suicide? Yes, that was the medical examiner's official ruling. After a closed door meeting, he first named it a homicide.

[Gabe Rosales]

Why?

[Unknown Host]

What happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice. For an in depth look at the facts, see what happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the national center for Missing and Exploited Children.

[Dr. Leslie]

I personally always had a really hard time kind of justifying being there for them, and I put it more towards my profession. But I'm wondering if maybe I. If I had been an inmate at one point, if I had been welcomed in like you were and you had to experience like the welcoming staff, I would say like the horrible staff in the jail. Without the empathy.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie]

If I would feel different.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah. I mean, it's weird being. Well, yeah. Being dehumanized. And it's like, that's always the kind of the argument. Right. It's like, why humanize these people when they have done such horrible things to society? But, yeah, as victims, you know, some. I mean, honestly, some, you know, some people never had a chance. I have a guy that I work with that was as a baby was found in a trash can. Right. And it's like, you know, just growing up, knowing that and then. And then also getting. Possibly getting abused by foster youth. I mean, foster home of your. Your adoptive parents or something like that. You know, being sexually abused by them too. A lot of people just didn't have a chance. I know that's not an excuse. I just try to have empathy for them while they're there. They are in prison, so it's not like they're out just walking around and getting, you know, a bunch of free stuff. You know what I mean? I mean, in prison, they were getting some free stuff.

[Dr. Leslie]

But how did you feel when you were in jail and how did you feel about the staff and if they cared about you and like, would you have made changes to.

[Gabe Rosales]

Oh, 100? Yeah. And this is a long time ago too, so. I mean, this is one thing I always tell people when I talk about prison or any carceral space is that we have this idea as a society that, you know, the correctional staff, the deputies, the correctional officers are there to keep all the evil inside these walls. And. But a lot of the time, you know, I mean, the correctional staff themselves are, you know, I mean, doing heinous stuff. They're selling drugs. You know what I mean? I mean, you know this like 100%, like abusing sexually the, the people that live there, selling phones, selling drugs. Especially now with fentanyl and spice and all that stuff like that. I mean, and we know this for a fact. It's just, it's like a fake marijuana that people smoke and that like, kind of makes you crazy.

[Dr. Leslie]

Like a clove, but with like basalt.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes, I guess something like that. Something that makes you smash your head on the wall, I guess.

[Dr. Leslie]

Please don't make.

[Gabe Rosales]

I've never done before. So one of the few I got. I got sober before all this crazy stuff started coming out. But I mean, we know for a fact that like, the correctional officers were bringing in drugs because during COVID they stopped all visitation. You know, they always blame it on the visitors. Right. Family members are bringing in drugs. All visitation stopped during COVID and guys were still overdosing on fentanyl. So it's like the only people that are there are the correctional staff. So.

[Dr. Leslie]

And a lot of the time it's the night staff.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie]

Security is more lax and steel water bottles can get through metal detectors with a lot of in them.

[Gabe Rosales]

Oh, Yeah. I mean, 100. You know, it's like that's part of the whole get down for those guys. It's like. And they make a lot of money, you know, I mean, on top of the six figures that they already make and they have a high school diploma.

[Dr. Leslie]

So what kind of stuff do they sell and how much do they charge?

[Gabe Rosales]

They sell phones for thousands and thousands of dollars, you know, and. And they can confiscate them like around Christmas time and then resell them back to the same people.

[Dr. Leslie]

And they don't. Like, the inmates don't get pissed and beat them up?

[Gabe Rosales]

No, they, I mean, they get very angry, but it's just kind of the whole. It's. It's this reciprocal ecosystem. And that's why I always try to explain people that these carceral spaces aren't what you Imagine of being, you know, the. The. The law enforcement or keeping the evil in. It's like this ecosystem of competing agendas, right? And people are feeding off of each other at all times. So, you know, somebody that's incarcerated might make the CO's life easier by doing something like making sure that this other drama is squashed. I mean, when I was in jail, I mean, we did all the discipline ourselves, right? Like, the faction that I was with, it's like if somebody messes up, like, they get the shit beat out of them by us, right? We don't. We don't want to get the law enforcement involved in anything. Like, we run our own program.

[Dr. Leslie]

Like, how do you, like, get your job or your role?

[Gabe Rosales]

Do you. I mean, I was just kind of assigned once I showed up, you know.

[Dr. Leslie]

Like, what were you assigned?

[Gabe Rosales]

Cube rep. I was in charge of my cell, you know, which is like, big responsibilities, like divvying out toilet paper and. Yeah, because big, big deal.

[Dr. Leslie]

So who gave you that role?

[Gabe Rosales]

The heads. The ups. When I. When I got in.

[Dr. Leslie]

Do they have titles?

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, it's like the Shot Caller or. I mean, the Compound.

[Dr. Leslie]

Is it gang or is it just.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, I mean, it's considered a gang, you know, South. I mean, I was running with Southsiders, Swan. But a Southsider, I wasn't actually. I've never been gang involved ever. Like, I wasn't part of a gang. I just. But when you show up, the first thing they ask you is, you know, me, I. I'm. I guess I could be white passing, you know, I mean, But I am Mexican 100%, you know. My parents met Mexico City. My mom's second generation. My dad's first generation. I mean, I'm first generation on my dad's side. And so when I got walked in, they said, are you a homie? Are you a wood? You know, which means. Homie means are you part of the Southern chapter? You know, you have the Mexican mafia or the South Siders or a Wood being peckerwood. White boy. Like, white. You know, so then. So I said, I'm, you know, I'm homie. And so they go, okay, we're gonna put you in this cell. You're the. You're the Cube rep. So you're gonna be responsible for all the guys in here in this cell. And because it was like congregate housing, kind of. There was like eight people, I think, in my. In my cube myself. And. And so I was responsible for having to wake them up. You know what I mean? Like, for Count time. Because count time happens multiple times a day. If they're not up, you know, ready for count, then. Then it's my responsibility, and then I got to make sure that they're acting right.

[Dr. Leslie]

And you do this because you don't want retaliation or you want community and protection.

[Gabe Rosales]

It's community and protection. Yeah, but it's like. It's just kind of like you're the dues. You pay for, like, you know, run. I mean, being part of this group that runs the facility. You know what I mean? And plus, it's like. And they help you out. Like, they took care of me. I mean, I can't lie about that. Like, I had a really horrible mattress when I got there, and they gave me a brand new nice one. Like, I got a nice pillow later.

[Dr. Leslie]

They, as in the other inmates, right.

[Gabe Rosales]

The guys in my gang or whatever, my faction, right, this outsiders, they hooked me up with, you know, like commissary coffee if you need something.

[Dr. Leslie]

So you've got, like, this. The custody officers in this world of them taking advantage and running this scheme, and then you've got kind of the.

[Gabe Rosales]

Inner inmate world, those politics and those guys running stuff, too. But that's. I mean, I mean, arguably the. The residents, the people that are living there are running everything because we're the ones who do the discipline. We're the ones who keep the peace. You know, I mean, the correctional officers.

[Dr. Leslie]

Like, how does that happen? They have. They. Well, they have guns. They have batons.

[Gabe Rosales]

At least they have batons, and they. Some of them have guns. Like in prison, depending on the level of yard you're on, like the level of prison yard, there's level two, three, four. Four being the highest level. Right. They have live ammunition. On the higher, you know, security levels, then as you kind of guys have a certain level of points when they go to prison, and then over time, good behavior, their points drop and they're able to drop in security. And so then the. The correctional officers don't have, like, live ammunition after that.

[Dr. Leslie]

But how do you. How do you have so much power to decide on mattresses and to decide. Is it.

[Gabe Rosales]

They just.

[Dr. Leslie]

Do some people work as trustees and that helps?

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes. Yeah. Everybody would like, at least on, like, where I was, you know, there's different people that have different jobs. There's guys that work in the kitchen. I had a violent crime, so I wasn't allowed to work in the kitchen.

[Dr. Leslie]

Because of weapons.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, exactly. Knives and stuff like that. And then.

[Dr. Leslie]

Oh, I have to interrupt you and ask.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes.

[Dr. Leslie]

Anytime that the Inmates would cook. Because in LA County Jail, we would all eat in the same cafeteria. Inmates, officers, clinicians.

[Gabe Rosales]

Okay, interesting. I didn't know that.

[Dr. Leslie]

Were there unknown substances in, like, the soups or the salad dressings?

[Gabe Rosales]

Not that I know of.

[Dr. Leslie]

Like, I'm just wondering what I ingested.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah. You know. Yeah. I mean, it could have been. I'm not sure. It's like the way we. We were set up is like, you know, we had. It was this, you know, conveyor belt. Basically, we go sit down and. I'm not kidding. We think they timed us. We had three to five minutes to eat our entire meal.

[Dr. Leslie]

Unless you're a slow eater. And you got to be.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie]

At the front of the line.

[Gabe Rosales]

You got a little longer, but. No, not even then. Seriously. And then, like, you have to. You can't take anything with you, like, that's considered contraband. Like, say you didn't get to finish an apple or an orange. Like, if you drop that, brought that back to your cell, then, like, that was considered contraband. And you get busted for that.

[Dr. Leslie]

Because you could make pruno.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah. Bruno part of it. You know what I mean? For sure.

[Dr. Leslie]

Yeah. Can you do not to make bruno?

[Gabe Rosales]

I don't know. I never did that. I was like. I was trying to be sober anyways. Trying to. You know, by the time I got there, I was, like, trying to stay out of trouble, and I did. I dropped 30 pounds because I was working out all the time.

[Dr. Leslie]

Because you weren't drinking pruno.

[Gabe Rosales]

I wasn't drinking.

[Dr. Leslie]

We should explain what prun is.

[Gabe Rosales]

It's just a fermented fruit and, like, hand sanitizer.

[Dr. Leslie]

Any kind of you can get. Well, you need, like, an alcohol and a sugar.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes.

[Dr. Leslie]

To sit in a dirty, stank stink.

[Gabe Rosales]

Bag.

[Dr. Leslie]

Under your bed for, like, week. Many weeks. Yeah.

[Gabe Rosales]

Sometimes there's vents, too, like, outside, and guys would just kind of leave fruit out there, like peels and stuff on top of the vents outside. And it would just kind of rot in the sun. And they'd use that for, like, they put that in there, too.

[Dr. Leslie]

Tell me about the riot.

[Gabe Rosales]

Oh, so, you know, just rapid fire.

[Dr. Leslie]

Going through major life experiences.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie]

Yeah.

[Gabe Rosales]

No, it's cool. This was like, you know, this was kind of what made me want to get into criminal justice stuff was because we're all, you know, we were all poor. Like, nobody had any money in this jail. You know, it's like everybody came from. You know, I'm in Orange county, so, you know, Santa Ana. Like, Santa Ana and Anaheim and these different places. And at least the group that I was with, like, none of us had any money. And so it was like, the fact that all these. These people were fighting each other, these racial groups were fighting each other based off of what was happening on the street was, like, frustrating to me. You know, so part of doing work, you know, for the group is that if there is some kind of conflict on the streets or in upstate prison or there's a, you know, a faction in some prison somewhere in the higher ups. You know, Pelican Bay is, like, back then, people are calling the shots back there. They call it in the back. Right. The shoe. And if. If they.

[Dr. Leslie]

Single housing unit.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes, yes, exactly. Or secure housing unit, too. That's a shoe. Yeah. And then so they call the shots. If they say that, you know, we're gonna riot against this group, then you don't have a choice. You have to. You have to jump, you know, and so that was kind of what happened. You have to attack everybody, like, whenever.

[Dr. Leslie]

Who's not within your right on your.

[Gabe Rosales]

Gang and who's not your race.

[Dr. Leslie]

Is that.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, basically it. Yeah. But I mean, there's California split, you know, there's the Northerners and the Southerners. So, like, you could still be Mexican, but if they're northerner, then you're supposed to be, you know, take off on them, too. So that's the rules. And, like, there's also the Fresno Bulldogs, and they're kind of their own little, you know. Yeah, just very.

[Dr. Leslie]

They're very infiltrated into a lot of, like, they are working as staff.

[Gabe Rosales]

Oh, yeah, some of them are.

[Dr. Leslie]

A lot of female stuff are brought in by the Bulldogs to have sex with the inmates.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, there's many. Many. Yeah, there's lots of highlights, right. Like jobs that people have that they can do, and just to make life's life easier for people inside, you know, there's a. It's a huge network. It's crazy. Yeah. But I mean, the last, like, two or three weeks I was there, I knew I was gonna be getting out at a certain time. They said, yeah, there's some stuff went down upstate prison. Tomorrow on the way to the chow hall, we're gonna attack all the black guys. We're gonna walk past them, and then you gotta just, you know, start take off on whoever is closest to you with shanks or. We didn't have any weapons. They. I mean, if we. We could have, like, made them ourselves. But it happened so quick. They're just like, we're gonna do it tomorrow morning. If you have time and you're like.

[Dr. Leslie]

Okay, I don't know why, but sure.

[Gabe Rosales]

Well, I. I mean, you know. No, I think nobody that's in. Like, I'm not part of gang culture. And so I'm just like, why is this beef. My beef? Like, what is that? And like, besides that, like, why would I attack somebody that has nothing to do with me or. You know what I mean? Like, it's just. Just because of this, but.

[Dr. Leslie]

Well, that seems like a rational response.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes.

[Dr. Leslie]

Okay. But you dove in.

[Gabe Rosales]

No. Well, the thing was, is they. The. There was no African Americans in our housing unit. The next housing unit over there were. And so they actually started the riot early. They started fighting each other right there. And then immediately the whole place went on lockdown. And so. So luckily didn't have to go to the chow hall in the morning. Didn't have to do that stuff. But we were on lockdown for, like, the remaining weeks I was there. And that was. Yeah, that was a whole other experience, you know, just being confined to your cell, you know, 24 hours a day. And then. And then talk about the deputies. Like, some guys would come in, just mess with us, shoot pepper spray into ourselves just for fun.

[Dr. Leslie]

Like, they would just spray you.

[Gabe Rosales]

They would just shoot, like, you know, tell us to face the wall, and then they'd shoot some stuff inside. And then you could smell it, and it was like, on the ground. And everybody's trying to avoid it and try to clean it as soon as possible because they just shoot the peppers. Because I thought it was funny.

[Dr. Leslie]

How do you clean it off your face? Water or.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, well, we didn't have. They would. They wouldn't do it on us. Like, they have it. Put it in ourselves. So that way they were hope. I guess the guest would hope would be that we'd walk in it and like. Like just kind of like fall in or something like that while we were there. So, you know, we had our rags and stuff like that, and we cleaned as much as, like, use toilet paper and clean stuff. And then I was kind of sick at the time, though, so it was actually like a vapor rub. I was able to breathe after the pepper sprayed. It was very helpful.

[Dr. Leslie]

Oh, my God.

[Gabe Rosales]

It was nice. It was good. They were looking out for us.

[Dr. Leslie]

Can I tell you a story?

[Gabe Rosales]

Of course.

[Dr. Leslie]

Just I want to hear your opinion.

[Gabe Rosales]

Okay.

[Dr. Leslie]

I ran groups in the jail, and this one guy with schizophrenia wanted to talk to me after the group. And I had kind of moved out of the pod and moved out of the area, and he sprinted towards me. And. And he was screaming, Dr. Dobson. And I didn't find him a threat. He was very impulsive, but he didn't get to me. I started walking up the metal stairs. I don't think people know that in a lot of prisons, the stairs have spikes. So I'm halfway up the metal stairs, and he gets taken down. So they grab him by the legs, he hits the floor, they cuff him, and he's drugged down the middle stairs. And then there's a moment of all of us pausing. I go into the office and lock myself in, and they walkie talkie like 15 other officers. They keep them cuffed and they beat the living out of them. And I sat there and watched. Couldn't do a single thing.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes. That's traumatizing for you.

[Dr. Leslie]

Yes.

[Gabe Rosales]

Right.

[Dr. Leslie]

What do you think about that, being on the other side when that could have been you?

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, I mean, I think about that. I saw that many times in jail, too. Like, they call it pretzel, too. Like, guys would get pretzeled.

[Dr. Leslie]

Pretzeled.

[Gabe Rosales]

Well, they just, like, have their limbs, like, tied behind their backs, like a. A hog tie kind of. And then they get kicked and stuff like that. And it was. It just made you super angry. And, like, I mean, a lot of times the deputies, like, their whole, you know, rationale is like, this isn't supposed to be fun for you. Like, the point of this is. Is, you know, you're being punished for, you know, the harm you caused in the community. So this is why we're doing it with. The point of this is that you never want to come back again because it's the worst memory you've ever had, that you got the beat out of you. But you got to imagine, like, half these guys have been. Came from extreme violence. Their entire childhood, they were beat by their stepdads or, you know, molested or, you know, I mean, obviously you got to get jumped into a gang or they've been shot at, stabbed, many things. So it's just another gang of people that are just attacking you. So it's like. And then, of course, it's the state, too. And it's also guys that. That can legally do this to you, so it's even more frustrating.

[Dr. Leslie]

So you seen that study comparing the personalities of custody officers to inmates?

[Gabe Rosales]

No. Yeah, I'm sure it's pretty similar, though, right?

[Dr. Leslie]

They're the same.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie]

It's based on the MMPI, the personality inventory.

[Gabe Rosales]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure. 100%. I mean, it's like, just from what I see, when I'm teaching in prison, going into, you know, and seeing the correction officers and hearing them gossip about stuff, you know, about the Menendez brothers, because, you know, or whatever else, you know, like this guy deserved it or he's a piece of crap or whatever. And, and you know, they have high school diplomas, a lot of them getting six, six digits. And I think, was it not Chow Chill? It was Chuckwalla. Prison just shut down recently. And it was a, there was a big uprising for the correctional officers there. Obviously they got very angry that the prison was being shut down. It was a big economic, you know, thing for the entire county. Right. And so the, the, I remember this interview with a correctional officer said, specifically, how else am I going to get a six figure job with a high school diploma? Like, you got to keep this prison open. So they were, you know, fighting to get the prison to stay open. To me, that's just not, that's not justice. You know, be like, this is not what we should be spending money on. And it's not justice if we have to keep a prison open just because this guy wants his job. I'm like, Blockbuster closed down. You know, Toys R Us is gone. Like, figured out, you know what I mean?

[Dr. Leslie]

Oh, I loved walking around Blockbuster.

[Gabe Rosales]

Right? Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie]

It was so soothing.

[Gabe Rosales]

But if you were the manager of Blockbuster, you wouldn't be like, we need to keep this going because Netflix. Down with Netflix. I mean, I'm sure you would, but, you know, it's like times change, you gotta evolve, you know, so it's like.

[Dr. Leslie]

So you get out of jail. We keep switching back and forth from jail to prison, but you get out of jail.

[Gabe Rosales]

Okay. Yes.

[Dr. Leslie]

And then like, how are you welcomed back? What happens?

[Gabe Rosales]

I was, I, I, because I've, I've been so lucky as a musician, you know, it's like, it's kind of like the, I'm just kidding, I'm just not, it's not the dues you pay as a musician, but it's as a rapper for sure. Because I, you know, I was a lot of rapping on my, my first album and there's be rapping on this too. I was able to start teaching again because I was always teaching, but private lessons, you know, so I didn't necessarily have to teach for a school and I have to. And then the guys I was teaching with, the stores that I was working with, they didn't require background checks and knew me already for years. They just knew that I got in trouble. And then I did, you know, I, you know, I Had a problem, and then I told him I fixed it, and I couldn't prove it to him. And.

[Dr. Leslie]

Because you had a felony.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, well, actually, it was a misdemeanor.

[Dr. Leslie]

Oh.

[Gabe Rosales]

So I lucked out.

[Dr. Leslie]

So you wouldn't really even see that.

[Gabe Rosales]

On a lot of background checks. Well, it would show up still. And that's like, when I started teaching in prison, when I did my background check, I was denied clearance. I wasn't able to get in the first time, even with that. So I had to petition the ward and stuff like that. But I was. It was easy because I was like, you know, if I'm playing an instrument on stage, like, nobody's gonna ask for my background check. So I was able to continue teaching, especially now. Yeah, right.

[Dr. Leslie]

It's like, Jesus, all the Sean Combs trauma.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah. Oh, my God. You don't want to know about it. Yeah. 100. So it's like, I was actually very, very lucky. I considered myself very, very lucky. Privileged to have had, you know, been a professional musician so that when I got out, I didn't have to deal with what a lot of people have to deal with. Finding jobs and being turned away and not finding housing and all that stuff. Like, I had to support a family and so many different things that could have gone wrong sideways.

[Dr. Leslie]

So you just, like, jumped into touring with JLo?

[Gabe Rosales]

No, that was actually before I got locked up, so.

[Dr. Leslie]

Oh, that was before?

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah. Like, that was one of the high profile acts I started playing with right out of, like, out of this metal band. And it was like the musical director. Her musical director was a friend of mine, and he's like, hey, you know, I was 21 at the time. 20 years old.

[Dr. Leslie]

It's like five years ago.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes, exactly. Right?

[Dr. Leslie]

Six, two looks. 20.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes, right. I have, like, my wrinkles and no gray hairs. The. He said, yeah, do you want to play with Jennifer Lopez? You know, I had Salma Hayek and Jennifer Lopez on my walls. And so I'm like, do I want to play with Jennifer Lopez? Like, I don't. You know, I don't even give a if she could sing or not. Like, you know, I don't care.

[Dr. Leslie]

Like, that's masturbatory stimulation.

[Gabe Rosales]

It's pretty much something like that. Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie]

In prison.

[Gabe Rosales]

Well, no, this was on my wall at home.

[Dr. Leslie]

Oh, okay.

[Gabe Rosales]

It was my. Yeah, it was fantastic. Her and Alyssa Milano, too. So. Yeah, I started playing with her because he was the musical director. He got me the gig. And then she liked her. She had an LA band and a New York band. And so she liked the New York band, so we kept getting gigs. So we did Channel Life twice. And that's when she was dating Puff Daddy, too. And is that.

[Dr. Leslie]

That's what his name was back then?

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, his name was Puff Daddy. It wasn't Diddy Daddy. Okay.

[Dr. Leslie]

Because we've had so many Diddy. Yeah, Some identity crisis going on there.

[Gabe Rosales]

Right.

[Dr. Leslie]

Okay.

[Gabe Rosales]

I'm not sure if it's a copyright thing. That's what I heard about, you know, Prince became the symbol so he could get out of his record. Copyright infringement, you know, like.

[Dr. Leslie]

And then you go to jail and then you get out, and then did you leverage all these really healthy relationships to blast off your career again?

[Gabe Rosales]

Oh, geez. No.

[Dr. Leslie]

Were you like, hey, hey, jlo.

[Gabe Rosales]

No, I was like, I'm out.

[Dr. Leslie]

I'm ready to go again.

[Gabe Rosales]

So embarrassed, like. No, it's just, you know, it's like, you're so embarrassed. Like, I was just embarrassed of the person I was. I hated the, you know, like, being an addict. I mean, you know, being an alcoholic, I really hated the person that I was. Like, the more sober I got, I hated who I was. Like, I hated him. I was like, he was just such a scummy piece of. I beat myself up more than anybody else could beat me up.

[Dr. Leslie]

Did you go to therapy?

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes, I did go to therapy for. For a while with, you know, my significant other and. And alone and just to kind of deal with. And also just, you know, I. Performing again, sober was the weirdest thing. I played on Saturday Night Live in front of millions of people on tv. Right. But I was. I think I had done a little bit of blow, and I drank, like, a bottle of wine and. And then the first time I played sober was probably around 2009, and it was at a club in Costa mesa at, like 12:30pm in the afternoon at, like, an empty bar. There was maybe one person at the bar, and I was terrified, Terrified. So scared. And I was like. Because I was like this, you know, I'm like, what if I mess up? And this sounds like. Like, you know, just. Just being all weird and then. And to think back that I was like, you know, on tv, in front of millions, and I was like, that was just. I didn't even think twice about that. But that's. It took a little while to kind of get used to my, you know, sit my skin. Right. You know, and get used to who I was.

[Dr. Leslie]

Now, how did you, like, how did you morph back into your skin? Took a long time.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, Well, I. I Think I didn't even know half of myself. That's the reason why I got, like, higher education helped me out with that. I didn't realize what I was interested in half the time. You know what I mean? I didn't realize of all. I didn't know all the things that I could do. You know what I mean? I didn't know what I was capable of. Like, I'm, like, right now I'm getting, like, a Ph.D. and I'm never in a million years what I thought of ever doing. Like, that's, like, stupid to me, you know, and. But I can kind of rely on that being able to code switch, because when I'm trying to, like, you know, when I talk to, like, other musicians or. Or, you know, at the prison correctional staff, for example, I can relate to them on a music tip. And then if they're intimidated, like, I had an associate ward and say, oh, like, I saw your. Your signature at the end of your email. You're like, you're. You have a master's degree and you're, you know, get a. You know, you're gonna get a PhD. Like, I'll be sure to, like, have a real email to send back to you. And I'm like, bro, like, don't. I don't give a shit. I'm a fucking bass player, dude. Like, it's not like that. Like, you can say whatever you want to me, you know, so it helps in some ways to be able to relate to people like that.

[Dr. Leslie]

But, yeah, what's next? What's the. Prison reform is a big part. Yes, but what's next for you?

[Gabe Rosales]

Well, from the finish, this Ph.D. that's the plan. Release another album. That's the plan. And then I got a bunch of projects that I'm working on right now. A big project with the Menendez brothers, who are, you know, in the. In the media spotlight a lot in the past six to eight months. I mean, they have been for the past, you know, 35 years. But.

[Dr. Leslie]

So 35 years ago, they were seriously sexually assaulted by their father. Abusive in all the ways. And then they had two trials, and in the second trial, all of the abuse wasn't really allowed in.

[Gabe Rosales]

Right.

[Dr. Leslie]

So they were. They were sentenced to life.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, life. What was on the table? It was. Death penalty was on the table. And then also. And then the other option was, yeah, life without the possibility of parole. So that's kind of why I think what the prosecutor was or like, the legal team.

[Dr. Leslie]

Oh, and we should add, it's because they massacred their parents with shotguns. Yes, there's that part.

[Gabe Rosales]

It was.

[Dr. Leslie]

Blew their heads off.

[Gabe Rosales]

Very heinous.

[Dr. Leslie]

Several times.

[Gabe Rosales]

Many shots.

[Dr. Leslie]

Many shots. Yeah, it's very icky. And then went on a spending spree and really looked like they didn't give a fuck. But we've had recent evidence come out that they were really sexually abused, and we kind of can relate it to battered woman syndrome in a way.

[Gabe Rosales]

Right, right.

[Dr. Leslie]

Okay. So to catch everyone up. And now they might be let out early because now they're actually. We understand what that kind of abuse does to people.

[Gabe Rosales]

That's it. Yeah, that's a huge part of it. Is that, like, you know, the. Their lawyer, Mark Garrigos, always says, you know, if they would have been the Menendez sisters back then, it might have looked differently. Because if they were being, you know, both of them were being completely sexually abused and for years and years and years by their father, and then their mother knew about it and, like, kind of sanctioned the abuse and the behavior because they have multiple family members as well, that. That said they knew something was going on. There's certain times of the day where they couldn't go upstairs and bother Eric and his dad and Lyle and his dad and stuff like that, too. So many family members are also want them released. And so that's also very helpful. And, yeah, the new evidence has been helpful, too. And then obviously, like, how you spend your time in prison is always when you're, you know, looking a. Resentencing is another part of it. And they've been involved with a bunch of rehabilitative programs. If I was to talk to myself back then, I would say, be aware of the. The lessons of impermanence. You know, nothing lasts forever. Change is inevitable, and that's good and bad. And then I'd also say, like, really pay attention to the harm you cause people, because if you are gonna. Because inevitably I did. But it's like, you need to understand, you need to be responsible and be held accountable for that, and you will be, you know, and, like, I think that's probably what I'd sell myself.

[Dr. Leslie]

And it's time for a break.

[Unknown Host]

So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.

There are many versions of what happened in 19, 1969, when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond.

And left a woman behind to drown.

There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News. It's Teddy Escapes Blonde Drowns. And in a strange way. Right. That sort of Tells you the story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president?

Kappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.

And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal.

The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week, we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

From. Iheart Podcasts, before social media, before the Internet, before cable news, there was Alan Berg.

You dig what I do. You have a need. Unfortunately, you have no sense of humor. That's why you can't ever enjoy this show, and that's why you're a loser.

[Gabe Rosales]

He was the first and the original shock jock. That scratchy, irreverent kind of way of talking to people.

[Unknown Host]

You're as dumb as the rest. That's. I can't take anyone.

[Gabe Rosales]

I don't agree with you all the time.

[Unknown Host]

I don't want you to. I. I hope that you pick me apart.

His voice changed media. His death shocked the nation.

And it makes me so angry that.

[Gabe Rosales]

He got himself killed because he had a big mouth.

[Unknown Host]

KOA morning talk show host Alan Berg.

[Gabe Rosales]

Reportedly was shot and killed tonight in downtown Denver.

[Unknown Host]

He pointed to the Denver phone book and said, well, There are probably 2 million suspects. This guy aggravated everybody.

From iheart podcasts, this is Live Wire, the loud life and shocking murder of Alan Berg. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Maybe you've heard that Stonewall was a riot where queer people fought back against police, or that it's the reason pride is celebrated this time of year.

[Gabe Rosales]

It was one of the most liberating things that I have ever done.

[Unknown Host]

But did you know that before it went down in history, the Stonewall was a queer hangout run by the mob.

[Gabe Rosales]

The voguing at Stonewall was unbelievable.

[Unknown Host]

In the summer of 1969, it became the site that set off the modern movement for LGBTQ rights.

[Gabe Rosales]

Started banging on the door of the Stonewall like one. Boom, boom, boom.

[Unknown Host]

Legend says Marsha P. Johnson, a mother in the fight for trans rights, threw the very first brick. She was really, like, scrubbed out of that history. This week on Afterlives, we'll separate the truth from the myth in the life of Marsha P. Johnson. Listen to afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

How could a beautiful young first grade teacher be stabbed 20 times, including in the back, allegedly die of suicide? Yes, that was a medical experiment. Examiner's official ruling. After a closed door meeting, he first named it a homicide. Why? What happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice. For an in depth look at the facts, see what happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the national center for Missing and Exploited Children.

[Dr. Leslie]

What do you think about Kim Kardashian?

[Gabe Rosales]

Oh, geez.

[Dr. Leslie]

Who's visited your prison, who has had more access and special treatment than anyone else? Or what do you think about her type?

[Gabe Rosales]

No, I know what you're saying. Yeah, well, it's okay. So I appreciate the visibility that she's brought to some of the causes that we and many people before her have been fighting for decades. And. And there are many more cases. Like, she brings these certain cases to light. Right. Said the people didn't know about executions in Texas. All these different things that people might have not known about. Which I appreciate. That's fantastic because people should know about this. And somebody of her stature making it like a. A discussion is super important, like, because she can reach so many people.

[Dr. Leslie]

Yeah.

[Gabe Rosales]

But at the same time, like, you know, I mean, the whole sensationalized thing, it's like the whole Hollywood shit is like, it's. It's frustrating because people have been doing the work forever and. And she's not the first. There are many people that are doing this work. I would say, like, if you wanted to start with Kim Kardashian, that kind of opened the door for people to get interested in these kinds of topics. Like, you need to dig in. Like, there's many, many other things happening, people doing great work. Because I don't think she's even a fraction of, you know, she's barely skimming the surface of some of these issues. But the fact that she's got so much visibility and people see her, I think that that's helpful for the whole cause in some ways, you know, but it also kind of makes a cheese ball too, sometimes. You know what I mean? It's like some people might not take it seriously because she's involved, and it's like, no, this is real shit, you know, so.

[Dr. Leslie]

Yeah. So what's. What's the real shit that you want to see changed? That's the final question.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, I mean, prisons aren't the answer. At least the way prisons are right now in California. Like, we shouldn't have prison the way they are now. Most of these, you know, institutions Were create. Created. I mean like there's. California's got, used to have 35 prisons. Now it's got like 32 or 33. A lot of them were built prior to 1980. They're not made for rehabilitation. So like the idea of corrections and rehabilitation, it's stupid because these buildings aren't. I mean, there's no place to teach classes. You know what I mean? Like, and so like correcting behavior shouldn't be that. It should be something else. We should have hospitals. People should have access to different things 100%.

[Dr. Leslie]

So fixing it on the inside, fixing it at a government level, but then also fixing the step down once you get out.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie]

And just. We have nothing in California. We just have nothing. People are incarcerated for so long and then they just get thrown back into their gang ridden community. They have no money.

[Gabe Rosales]

200 bucks. Yeah, that's what the gate money is. Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie]

And so they meet their pimp, they meet their dealer, they start working again and they're tied back into the hole.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie]

Cycle.

[Gabe Rosales]

It's tough. And it's like, I mean, I think we do have a lot of good reentry programs. And I'm also working with the reentry liaison for the district attorney of San Diego. So it's like there are groups that are trying to help out consistently, but it's just not, I mean, it's not enough if there's not enough money behind it to adequately help people out. We're not addressing the trauma that people had while they were in prison when they get out and then, you know, and, but luckily California has been one of the states where, I mean, I, I know this from my own personal experience as applying to colleges. One year I had to divulge all my criminal background to get law school and PhD program. Next year I didn't ban the box is what it was called. And so now we don't have to consistently go back. Like, oh yeah, in 2007, I really hurt some people. Let me explain how I've changed. It's like that's the past. That was literally almost 20 years ago. Right. I'm a different person now. I don't have to do that every single time. So I think there's, there's, we're making some good steps, but there's gotta be more.

[Dr. Leslie]

I hear you. I agree. I still think about the victims that don't get to ever be free of, of this. Right. Well, so there's, so we've got, we're helping the inmates. We're gonna kind of Figure that out for them. But the people who have lost their loved ones, right, will never.

[Gabe Rosales]

That's a huge part of it. So, I mean, I also think restorative justice is really, really important. Right, because that's a huge point. And I'm glad you brought that up, because that's something I always discuss with the rancher liaison. These guys have been able to sit in prison. Not just sit, but, like, they've been working on themselves for 20 years, right? They're. They have bedding, they have food. They're able to, like, deal with their traumas, like, hopefully. See, I mean, mental health departments are, you know, hit and miss at different institutions, but they've been able to actually address some of these things. Meanwhile, the victims have had no closure. It's like the state kind of just takes this. This. This feeling of empowerment and responsibility out of the hands of the victims, and then it's the state's responsibility. And so then when these guys get out, the victims families are just as upset as they were maybe 20 or 30 years ago. It's just not fair. We should be working on ways to have them both heal at the same time. But it's also, like, that's the way our system's set up, right? It helps the prosecutor, you know, for their record, to make sure that, you know, the victims are always angry, you know, like, yeah, he's up for parole. He's not the same person anymore. He was a gang member. He shot, you know, your son when he was 14 years old. And unfortunately, your son died. But, you know, he's a piece of shit. We should keep him in there. Aren't you still angry about that? Luckily, you know, and then they. It's another. They keep their notch on the belt, you know what I mean? But we're not helping the victims out at all. It's horrible.

[Dr. Leslie]

And resources and funding should not just go to prisons, but to the victims, right?

[Gabe Rosales]

And like, help them restore themselves, you know what I mean? To figure out ways.

[Dr. Leslie]

But also, you bring up a good point that lawyers are gonna tap dance and fuck with the judicial system in order to have a better caseload and a better cv. And that's really, really fucked up too, right? We just talk about so many broken things.

[Gabe Rosales]

It is.

[Dr. Leslie]

But I think the key is that we. I respect the Kim Kardashian tip of the iceberg mentality. Like, she's bringing it, but everyone needs to look deeper and look at it in a more vast way, because that's quite a vapid perspective, although an important one. To at least draw our eyes or our attention to it.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, we dropped the ball. So many places with so many people, and they could have. It could have easily been swept up. Like, you know, there could have been a program, there could have been some kind of mentor for this person at this time. I mean, obviously we can't save everybody, but we're not even addressing that stuff, so. Totally.

[Dr. Leslie]

Okay, let's conclude with kind of like a call to action. Okay, what would that be for you? Let's say we have a bunch of people listening to this. What do you want to tell them? I would say also, how can they follow you and be there for your next album and help with the change you want?

[Gabe Rosales]

Well, my name is Gabriel Salas, so I'll have my. My second album will be just under my name. Right. I have all my social media, Facebook, Instagram, Face, MySpace. Just kidding.

[Dr. Leslie]

Really?

[Gabe Rosales]

No, I'm just kidding. You're like, oh, my God, that. And then. Yeah, so. And then I'll be also, you know, I mean, doing. My whole goal too is whatever I'm researching is to be able to put that out in other means. You know, maybe. Maybe I'll do another podcast. Maybe I'll do YouTube or something like that. Because nobody pays attention to academics and the research. It's like. And it's. There's this whole gatekeeping thing too that drives me crazy. But I would say, like, for people, get involved with your local community. If there's a youth, like the Big Brother programs, the CASA court appointed special advocates, get involved with that because you have to. We want to make sure that, like, getting the kids before they end up in the criminal justice system and keep doing this, that's. That's the key. So I would say volunteering is super important also. Just trying to understand talking to people. Like, the simplest thing you can do is talk to somebody that doesn't think the same way as you and, and get their perspective on it and, and. And listen to. And I would say go volunteer at your local jail or prison for sure.

[Dr. Leslie]

I mean, just what it's really like.

[Gabe Rosales]

See what it's really like and talk to somebody, Go sit down at a table and see what they've dealt with in their life. Because you. You'd have a completely different perception of, Of. Of who's inside. You know what I mean?

[Dr. Leslie]

Yeah, completely. I like that.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah. I mean, it's like simple, but it's like, it's so powerful. And if more people did that, then it's like, I feel like a lot less Kids would go through the crack, fall through the cracks, and we'd be spending less money, too, because economically, that's like we dropped $120,000 per person in prison for a year. It's a lot. It is. I mean, there's a lot of elderly there, and they have lots of medical needs. That's part of it. But, yeah, we could be doing it way better. We could be helping people out, like, period.

[Dr. Leslie]

And if you are into drugs or music, just go to, like, one after party, not the fourth.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yes.

[Dr. Leslie]

Okay. Thank you.

[Gabe Rosales]

Yeah, of course.

[Dr. Leslie]

Thank you for being here.

[Gabe Rosales]

No, thank you for having me.

[Dr. Leslie]

I really appreciate it.

[Gabe Rosales]

I appreciate the questions you asked because it was like, it was helpful. I hope people listen and take pay attention. You know what I mean?

[Dr. Leslie]

Thanks for watching another episode of Intentionally Disturbed. I'm so happy you got to hear and meet Gabe. Not only is he resilient, but he is brilliant. See you next time.

[Unknown Host]

So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.

There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.

Left a woman behind to drown.

Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week, we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Maybe you've heard that Stonewall was a riot where queer people fought back against police, or that it's the reason pride is celebrated this time of year.

[Gabe Rosales]

It was one of the most liberating things that I have ever done.

[Unknown Host]

Legend says Marsha P. Johnson threw the very first brick, started banging on the.

[Gabe Rosales]

Door of the Stonewall like one.

[Dr. Leslie]

Boom.

[Unknown Host]

This week on Afterlives, we'll separate the truth from the myth in the life of Marsha P. Johnson. Listen to afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from.

Iheart Podcast. Before social media, before cable news, there was Alan Berg.

[Gabe Rosales]

He was the first and the original shock cha. That scratchy, irreverent kind of way of talking to people and telling them that you're an idiot and I'm gonna hang up on you.

[Unknown Host]

This is Livewire. The loud life and shocking murder of Alan Berg.

And he pointed to the Denver phone book and said, well, there are probably 2 million suspects.

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

How could a beautiful young first grade teacher be stabbed 20 times, including in the bat, Allegedly die of suicide? Yes, that was the medical examiner's official ruling. After a closed door meeting, he first named it a homicide. Why? What happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice. For an in depth look at the facts, see what happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the national center for Missing and Exploited Children.

[Dr. Leslie]

This is an I heart podcast.