Revisiting 'Seth Gehle: Reclaiming His Story'

Summary

Intentionally Disturbing — Revisiting 'Seth Gehle: Reclaiming His Story'

Host: Dr. Leslie
Guest: Seth Gehle
Release Date: September 18, 2025
Podcast by: iHeartPodcasts

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Overview

In this searing and courageous episode, Dr. Leslie welcomes Seth Gehle, a combat veteran, speaker, and author, who recounts his journey of surviving sustained childhood abuse—including brutal sexual assault—and the complex aftermath. With Dr. Leslie's characteristic blend of empathy, directness, and dark wit, the episode dives deep into trauma, resilience, cycles of abuse, empathy, and personal transformation. Seth speaks freely, offering unfiltered insights into his past, his mind, and the path he forged to reclaim his own story, culminating in a message about the power of empathy, ownership, and daily choice.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Seth’s Background and Motivation for Sharing His Story

• [03:53] Seth introduces himself, emphasizing survival through 16 years of extreme trauma—neglect, abuse, violence—and how he later channeled these experiences into achievements as a combat veteran, award-winning construction professional, and now a public speaker and author.
• Being only 30, Seth reflects on why he wrote a memoir at a young age: "People ask me, what do you have to write about at 30 years old?"
• Quote: “When people hear your backstory, I think that’s what’s inspiring about it all.” — Seth, 04:43

2. Early Family Trauma and Instability

• [04:47 – 05:18] Seth was born into chaos: his father stabbed his mother when Seth was just 2. His first memory of meeting his father was visiting him in prison, which left deep marks of loss and longing.
• His description of growing up with a missing parent:
  Quote: “It’s like missing a piece of the puzzle... and you just can’t have it.” — Seth, 06:01
• The family’s circumstances led to shuffling between various caregivers, exposing Seth and his siblings to more instability.

3. Childhood Sexual Abuse and the Failure of Protection

• [07:38 – 08:39] Early exposure to pornography in the house and first experience of molestation at a babysitter’s home, by the babysitter’s teenage son.
• When Seth told his grandmother, the family denied it:
  Quote: “We were still going back to that house... In fact, we ended up living with those people some.” — Seth, 09:23
• He articulates the psychological isolation of abuse:
  Quote: “It’s like getting off the highway into a town you’re unfamiliar with… There’s no street that’s like, turn left for mommy, turn right for daddy… you’re just... trapped.” — Seth, 08:44

4. Escalating Neglect, Violence, and the Pull of Outsiders

• [10:11 – 12:17] As his mother’s addiction and violence escalated, Seth details physical abuse, stating, “She was always like, verbally yelling, screaming... but she began to really put her hands on us.”
• Dr. Leslie asks if parenthood changed his empathy. Seth responds by discussing generational trauma and the “behavioral inheritance” of pain.

5. The Predator: Grooming, Manipulation, and Double Lives

• [13:38 – 22:56] Seth recounts meeting Armando “Mondo” Vasquez at age 10. Mondo, a charismatic 30-year-old, grooms Seth through friendship, trust, and mirroring—offering an escape from weekday abuse, only for weekends to become sites of sexual abuse.
• Seth describes grooming methods, the gradual escalation of acts, and the emotional confusion involved: Quote: “Monday through Friday was abuse, drugs, violence in my house. Saturday and Sunday became basically a sexually abusive place.” — Seth, 17:49
• On predators hiding in plain sight:
  Quote: “Mondo is arguably the best thing that ever happened to me, while also being the worst thing that ever happened to me.” — Seth, 21:09

6. Trauma Compounded: Power, Secrecy, and Escalation

• [28:46 – 36:09] The acts of abuse become more explicit and invasive as grooming advances. Seth powerfully refuses to sanitize the language, wanting listeners to understand the full reality:
  Quote: “When people hear ‘molestation’...they assume like the weird uncle...they don’t realize people are committing full-on sexual acts on children.” — Seth, 30:37
• He details how the trauma inhibited him from reporting the abuse, especially after the first rape at age 13:
  Quote: “If I go and tell somebody what happened, I have to admit that...I participated...No matter how much manipulation or deceiving...that’s all true. But it...was also true I was there.” — Seth, 36:47

7. Breaking the Silence: Disclosure and Justice

• [39:40 – 45:36] The cycle finally breaks after Mondo makes inappropriate comments to a younger boy. Seth confides in his friend Jacob, only to learn Jacob was also abused.
• Both go to the police. Seth’s candor about the forensic exam is striking: Quote: “They asked, do you have anything at your house...I said, well, he just raped me about 12 hours ago. I’ve not taken a shower. I have everything on me right now. The silence in the room was...deafening.” — Seth, 43:02
• Mondo is convicted after confessing but gets a plea deal and a 10-year sentence; he dies of a reported staph infection in prison before release.

8. Aftermath: Military Service, Trauma, and Coping

• [51:12 – 58:29] Seth transitions from surviving abuse to military service. He found out about Mondo’s death while on deployment. He shares an important compare-and-contrast between military trauma and childhood trauma: Quote: “I didn’t have a bell to ring...I had no option but to continue moving forward. Right. So...that is the accolade that I carry.” — Seth, 55:02

9. Resilience, Empathy, and Transformation

• [58:57 – 65:48] Dr. Leslie asks how Seth turned trauma into strength. Seth outlines his philosophy: acknowledging pain, developing empathy, and owning one’s story.
• On resilience: Quote: “That resiliency...can only be utilized if it’s, like, captured. Like, you have to capture it and understand the gift of adversity, the gift of trauma.” — Seth, 58:57
• On shifting perspective: Quote: “Now instead of saying, you know what, you didn’t have addicted mother...now I say, I’m so happy you had good parents. I’m so glad you did not have to experience what I went through.” — Seth, 60:35
• On the power of daily choice: Quote: “Empathy is an attitude. Gratitude is an attitude. It is not this magical pill... It’s a decision.” — Seth, 61:37

10. Relationships, Repair, and Daily Practice

• [65:48 – 71:17] Seth candidly admits to emotionally abusing his wife—mirroring the cycles of manipulation and control from his own past—and details the painstaking process of repair.
• On the process of true transformation: Quote: “I was the abuser...the gaslighting...I was the person doing all the things that had been done to me. Fortunately enough...I was able to finally hold myself accountable and fix the damn problem.” — Seth, 69:11
• He credits empathy, forgiveness, and conscious effort with saving his marriage and allowing him to love his wife and family fully.

11. Reclaiming the Narrative: Sharing and Helping Others

• [71:23 – 72:45] Seth shares his work: His book “Strength Beyond the Shadows,” his website, and ongoing speaking engagements focused on trauma, resilience, and helping others face adversity.
• He urges listeners not to focus merely on the abuse, but on the meaning:
  Quote: “My story is just about being resilient. It’s not about child abuse...It’s about being resilient and overcoming adversity.” — Seth, 72:36

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On trauma:
  “Monday through Friday was abuse, drugs, violence in my house. Saturday and Sunday became basically a sexually abusive place.” — Seth, 17:49
• On victim psychology:
  “Mondo is arguably the best thing that ever happened to me, while also being the worst thing that ever happened to me.” — Seth, 21:09
• On emotional repair:
  “I was the abuser...I was the person doing all the things that had been done to me. Fortunately...I was able to finally hold myself accountable and fix the damn problem.” — Seth, 69:11
• On survival, acceptance, and daily choice:
  “Empathy is an attitude. Gratitude is an attitude. It is not this magical pill...It’s a decision.” — Seth, 61:37
• On the importance of sharing and connection:
  “There is no shame in this. There is only power and resilience.” — Dr. Leslie, 73:23

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:53 — Seth introduces himself and background
• 04:47 — Early family trauma (father’s violence, prison)
• 07:38 — Discovery of pornography, first sexual abuse
• 10:11 — Mother’s addiction and abuse
• 13:38 — Meeting Mondo; grooming begins
• 17:49 — Dual trauma: home life vs. Mondo’s weekends
• 30:37 — Graphic realities of CSA, importance of honesty
• 36:47 — First rape; internalized shame and silence
• 39:40 — Disclosure to Jacob, uncovering shared trauma
• 43:02 — Police report and forensic exam
• 45:36 — Justice, Mondo’s conviction and death
• 51:12 — Reaction to Mondo’s death during Afghanistan deployment
• 55:02 — Comparison of military and childhood trauma: “no bell to ring”
• 58:57 — The gift of adversity: how trauma shapes resilience
• 61:37 — Empathy and gratitude as daily attitudes
• 69:11 — Accountability, ending the cycle of abuse in marriage
• 72:36 — Shifting from abuse story to resilience and helping others

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Where to Find Seth Gehle & His Work

• Book: [Strength Beyond the Shadows] (available on Amazon)
• Website: sethgale.com
• Instagram: @seth_gale

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Closing Message

Dr. Leslie ends by reinforcing the necessity of community, voice, and the rejection of shame. By naming abuse and breaking silence, survivors can claim power and stop cycles of harm. Seth’s journey underlines the possibility—and hard labor—of overcoming even the deepest wounds, embracing empathy, and forging real, lasting resilience.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Seth Gale]

Hey, everybody. This is Matt Rogers and Dawon Yang, and you're never gonna guess who's our guest on Las Culturistas.

[Interviewer]

It is Elle Woods.

[Seth Gale]

Tracy Flick herself, Reese Witherspoon.

[Interviewer]

Reese, we must go on a girls trip.

[Seth Gale]

I have to have a tequila.

[Interviewer]

We must. Oh, whoever said orange is the new pink? Like, seriously, seriously disturbed.

[Seth Gale]

Listen to Las culturistas on the iHeartrad Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Interviewer]

Liz went from being interested in true crime to living true crime. My husband said your dad's been killed. This is Hands Tied, a true crime podcast exploring the murder of Jim Melgar. I was just completely in shock. Liz's father murdered and her mother found locked in a closet, her hands and feet bound. It didn't feel real at all. More than a decade on, she's still searching for answers. We're still fighting. Listen to Hands tied on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It was an unimaginable crime. It's four consecutive live terms for Bryan Kohberger, who killed the four University of Idaho students. Nearly 30 months of silence until bombshell development. Bryan Kohberger has agreed to plead guilty. No trial, no testimony.

[Seth Gale]

The defense are on a sinking ship. This isn't the justice you wanted, but this is justice.

[Interviewer]

Listen to season three of the Idaho Massacre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Seth Gale]

Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Interviewer]

I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant for my heart. Podcasts and Rococo Punch. This is the Turning River Road. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. But in 2014, the youngest escaped. Listen to the turning river road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everyone. It's Nicole Angemi, P.A. and curator of ISSsangemi on Instagram, where I have been teaching about pathology and death for over 10 years. And I'm her daughter, Maria Q. Kain, and we host the podcast Mother Knows Death. Each week, we dive into the darker side of life, exploring topics such as what can go wrong with the human body, true crime, medical mysteries, freak accidents, and more. New episodes of our show drop twice a week. Make sure to tune in to Mother Knows Death on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, hey, you're here. My name is Dr. Leslie. And this is intentionally disturbing. Today is a unique episode with Seth Gill. Now, I usually talk more in these episodes and I'm funny, at least I'd like to think so. But Seth is new to telling his story about being brutally sexually assaulted. And I let him have the space to share his story and wow, the motivation that came from it, the resiliency and the passion that you hear at the end. I hope you enjoy it. And please listen all the way through because there's a massive lesson at the end. Oh, hey. So welcome, Seth. Please can you tell everyone why you're such an incredible person?

[Seth Gale]

Yeah. First off, thanks. Thanks for the, for having me here. Thanks for the introduction. Yeah. So Seth Gale, speaker, author, amongst many other things. I got into this whole world of speaking and writing a book because of the life, the childhood that I endured. Basically, I went through the better part of about 16 years of an absolute hell. So I got the full gambit of childhood trauma, neglect and abuse. And that's, you know, going through all that I don't think is super inspiring. But what I've done on the other end of it, I think is, you know, so I'm a combat veteran, national award winning construction professional, and now speaker, author. So when you talk about all those things, those things are great. When people hear your backstory, I think that's what's inspiring about it all. So.

[Interviewer]

And you're 30?

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, I'm 30 years old. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Like, that's a lot to go through.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, yeah, I get that a lot as well. People ask me, you know, I tell people I wrote a memoir and then they say, you're 30 years old. Well, what do you have to write about at 30 years old? And so anyways, the story is, you know, I was born to a single mother, three kids. I guess she wasn't single when I was born, but my father ended up stabbing her behind the ear. I was about 2 years old. So he went to prison. I didn't really know him growing up. He was in prison. I met him in prison when I was about 7 or 8 or so.

[Interviewer]

You met him?

[Seth Gale]

Yeah. I went to the prison to go like, meet my father. Like, that was like, who took you? My mom. Oh.

[Interviewer]

So she. Was she on good terms with him?

[Seth Gale]

Good terms is probably not the right word. Wow. I think she, she, she wanted to, I think maybe we were asking about our dad and she's like, he's in jail, you know, and she, she talked about him a lot growing up. It was always like negative things, you know, like, her dad isn't here. He doesn't pay child support, you know, just. Just like negative connotations associated with him. And so, you know, about six, seven years old, maybe eight. I remember going to the jail, and that was my first time. That's my earliest memory of my father, is meeting him in prison. As soon as I saw him, I knew he was my father. I knew that's my dad. He walked in, sat down, and I picked. I was the first one to grab the phone, picked it up, tried to talk to him, and I couldn't talk. I just started crying. I remember crying for 20 or 30 minutes. I just couldn't talk. And both my sisters talked to him. I couldn't. I just. I was just broken. So I always tell people it's like missing a piece of the puzzle. There's like one piece of the puzzle that's missing, and you finally find it and you just can't have it. And that's kind of how I felt. Like I. I don't know if I realized I was missing my father my whole life, but when I. When I met him and I realized, like, he's not in my life, that just. It just hurt so bad. I remember that day vividly. I don't think I ever forget it.

[Interviewer]

Why did he stab her?

[Seth Gale]

I don't know. They got. They got into a fight. It's a he said, she said today. You know, my mom says that. That he was mad and attacked her. He says that she was coming at him with the knife and that he pushed her away and stabbed her. You know, they. I don't know what this. I don't know the story of the scenario or the situation to this day. So that's kind of how life kind of kicked off for me. Kickoff. Yeah. And then, you know, five years old, because my father was in prison. Single mother, three kids. She's trying to do everything she can to survive. And so we were always in different babysitters homes. We were always bouncing around different places and sometimes being watched by babysitter, sometimes not. And the times that we weren't, unfortunately, we came across. My mom had a porn collection at home, and so we found the porn, we started watching it, and as kids were. You're just.

[Interviewer]

Vhs?

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, vhs. Yep. Yeah. We plugged it in, started watching it, and it's like a train wreck. You know, you can't look away. You're just. Especially as a young. At a young age, you're. You're just. It's infatuating. You know, there's Something about it that's just captivating for kids and you're kind of watching it and then that kind of messes you up. It desensitizes you a little bit. Right. And unfortunately, you know, coupled with that, at a babysitter's home, they had some teenage kids. One of them was maybe 16 or so. He began to molest me.

[Interviewer]

And he was babysitting you or you're at a babysitter's.

[Seth Gale]

He was the son of the babysitter. You know, the babysitter had like four boys and he was one of the older ones. And at night he would pull me up into his bunk and then he would touch me, he'd make me touch him. You know, it wasn't, I say it wasn't anything crazy, but it was. I, all I can remember about that was just touching, touching one another, you know, which, you know, it still not good, right? So.

[Interviewer]

No, that at 5, I guess. How do you process that? You.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, I, I, you know, it's funny, I, I wrote about it in my book. I talk about that happening and when you're a kid and you're being molested or somebody's taking advantage of you, it's like getting off the highway into a town that you're unfamiliar with and you're just on a bunch of one way streets and you can't. There's no street that's like, turn left for mommy, you turn right for daddy. That you're just on the street and you're just driving deeper into the neighborhood because nobody's there to save you. And you're just, you're just in this place and you're just trapped and you're stuck because you can't do anything about it. You're just stuck. I ended up going to my grandparents house on a weekend. You know, shortly after that I told my grandma what happened, you know, told her that, hey, this, this boy's doing this or whatever. They, they tried to do something about it. Nothing ever happened. Basically the family denied, which is typical. The, the family denied that, that their son had done that. And we were still going back to that house to be babysat. In fact, we ended up living with those people some. My mom was so inconsistent with work and things like that that she wouldn't be able to take care of us at all. So we would live with those people for a week or two, three weeks at a time occasionally and go to school with their kids and all that.

[Interviewer]

After you said he was touching you.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And, and he kept doing it.

[Seth Gale]

I Don't remember it happening anymore. After I reported him, I don't remember happening anymore. I think it only happened a few times.

[Interviewer]

But you still had to be, like, in the home.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Sleeping.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, Yeah. I don't. I don't remember a whole lot about that. I mean, about him specifically. I remember a lot about that household and the things we did, but not a whole lot about him specifically. Just I know that that happened. So life goes on. Continues. My mom, you know, she was constantly dating guys, getting in fights. The house started to become more violent. She was always smoking weed, drinking with her friends on the weekends or even during the week. Eventually, she ends up meeting a guy who is a part of a church. He gets her addicted to cracking cocaine. So in addition to that, you know, my mom became more. More abusive. She became to. You know, she was always like, verbally yelling, screaming and cussing at us, but she began to really put her hands on us. You know, many, many stories I could tell you about her closed hand, punching my sisters in the mouth, hitting me.

[Interviewer]

You know, she was high more often. She was more into drugs, too. Do you think was there a combination of drugs and violence that would escalate?

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, it was. It was a combination of it all. Yeah. It just. It just kept getting worse.

[Interviewer]

You know, you're a dad. I mean, like, could you imagine doing that to your children or your wife doing that to your children?

[Seth Gale]

So, not to say that I could imagine, but I could empathize with why people do it. So there's. There's a lot of good studies out there. There's a lot of good, good reading on it all. But when you don't, if you grow up and you grow up in trauma, there's a reason why it's generational, right. It's not like it's a disease. It's not in your DNA. It's in the behaviors. Right. And so when you grow up and nobody ever gave you that paternal instinct from a mother or a father, it's not like this natural thing that we have. You will likely do what your parents did. That's just how it goes most of the time. And so when people grow up without a mom and a dad and they don't have a support system, you know, they. They become these angry people, they become these resentful people, and that's just what happens. So it's not right.

[Interviewer]

But you broke the cycle.

[Seth Gale]

I did, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm a bit of an anomaly. And, you know, just to dig deeper into the. The childhood thing, so because of all the, the trauma and neglect and abuse just in the house. Most of the time the kids will find a resource outside of the home. Right. They don't have anything in the home. They'll look outside and that's where you find trouble. Right. Whether it's gangs or drugs or whatever it is. I had an older friend who lived around the corner from me. He was 15 when I met him. I was 10. And he had an older friend who, his name was Mondo. We called him Mondo. His name is Armando Vasquez, but we called him Mondo for short. And I met Mondo when I was 10 years old. He walked into my buddy Jacob's house. He's 6, 566-380-plusive guy. He's Hispanic, but you can. But he looks very pale, very pale skin, but you can tell he's Hispanic. He's got big like Dahmer style aviator glasses on, long black, slick back hair. He walked in, introduced himself to me, he says, you know, what's your name? Seth. Armando. Do you like football? I love football. Do you like video games? Love video games. Do you like pizza? I love pizza. He's like, all right, well, cool. He's like, why don't you come up to the house with Jacob and we'll play video games all weekend. Sounds good. So I go home, ask my mom, My mom says, as long as I'm with my friend Jacob, I'm good to go to this guy's house. He's like 30 at this point. Go back.

[Interviewer]

Adult man is inviting two young boys over.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah. And he had known Jacob for a while at this point. Known him for a few years. And we. I remember getting to his studio apartment, you know, walking in this one big room and the first impression was there's multiple TVs and multiple game systems, which means we don't have to take turns, which means we can play video games all night long, sit down, start playing video games. There's pizza and pop that's ordered. There's no rules, you know, we can eat whatever snacks we want, we can drink whatever pop we want, we can cuss, we can do all the things, you know, like this is like every kid's dream hangout spot because there's no mom or dad to come in at 2 o' clock in the morning and tell you to stop eating the chips or whatever, you know. So we're playing video games all night long. It was awesome. And I was really excited too because like, I'd never been anywhere like this. I never I didn't have a friend who could drive. I didn't have a friend who could buy me things. And so I was super excited to be with this guy. And so Sunday came around, and I had to go back home. So he drives us back home, is about 30 minutes away, drops me off, and, you know, he says, you know, when do you want to come back? And I'm like, dude, I'll come back next weekend. So basically from that point forward, I started hanging out with him every single weekend like clockwork. Friday night after school, he'd pick me up. He'd bring me home Sunday afternoon, you know.

[Interviewer]

And what grade were you in?

[Seth Gale]

Fifth grade. Or something like that.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Seth Gale]

Something somewhere around there.

[Interviewer]

So freaking little.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And an adult man is picking you up every Friday and bringing you back Sunday?

[Seth Gale]

Yeah. Yep. So eventually began to meet his whole family. He never met my family, but I get. I eventually meet his family and meet his mom. I mean, his sisters start going to his, like, Fourth of July, Memorial Day, Thanksgivings, Christmases.

[Interviewer]

I'm like, they don't think it's weird he's bringing a kid around?

[Seth Gale]

I don't know. I. I don't know. I started showing up, and Mondo was the guy. He was like the big brother that had the little boy kid friend, you know? In fact, the first time I met his mom, I had really long hair. I had it, like, down past my shoulders, and I did look like a little girl. And his mom tells me I was too pretty to be a boy. So circle back to that here in a minute. But after about two or three months of knowing Mondo and hanging out with him consistently every weekend, and one weekend, my. My friend Jacob and I are there, and Jacob leaves on a Sunday to go get tacos. And while he's at Taco Bell down the street, I told Mondo I was cold, you know, so Mondo's like, why don't you get in my lap? He was. He had a blanket. So I get into his lap. I'm sitting on his left leg, and he pulls the blanket over us. And I'm like, nice and warm. I'm snuggled up with him. And I had never felt this kind of, like, compassion from a man, you know? So it was nice. Like, I laid there, laid my head on his chest. I was nice and warm and comfortable. We're watching football Sunday afternoon football. And his left hand is on my left hip, and it drops off, and it hits my butt. And he says, I'm sorry. And I'm like, that's not A big deal. Like if me and you bump each other in the hallway, it's not a big deal, you know. So it said it's okay. And so he puts his hand back on my butt and he says, so this is okay. I immediately knew what was happening. I just, I was like, okay. I kind of feel like it was being at the top of the roller coaster and be like, oh, shit. Like this is the ride we're on. Okay. So I froze up, didn't say anything. I hear Jacob pulling outside. We hear the gravel kind of turning out in the driveway and he moves his hand away. Jacob comes in, we eat our tacos, we go home. I basically, that's when I start to gaslight myself into thinking, like, this isn't happening. Like that was just, you know, whatever, it's not going to happen again. The man had clearly violated my body and I was telling myself it's not happening. You know, if I, if your husband walked in and punched you in the face right now, I might say that didn't just happen. And it might take me a minute to realize like what happened. And by most of the time when you do realize, it's too late, you know, you, you, we say it's too late, you're like into that realm of like, what am I going to say now? I've already let it happen, you know.

[Interviewer]

Do you think you can be gaslit though, or gaslight yourself at 10 years old?

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, I think anybody can. Yeah. Yeah. Because, because you don't want to believe it. You don't, you don't want to believe it. You know, I want to be clear about something. This is about my story, right? Monday through Friday was abuse, drugs, violence in my house. Okay. Saturday and Sunday became basically a sexually abusive place. So seven days a week, 10 years old, I was trading one hell for another. And it just, it just got worse and worse and worse as time would go on. My mom became more addicted, more abusive, more violent. I, I ended up living in a house where my bedroom had a four foot by two or three foot hole in the ceiling. No, I mean, you could see straight into the attic above. And the cold winters in Ohio, the rain, the snow, the wind would come into my room and I would lay there on a 4 inch mattress with a thin blanket, freezing to death every night and just wishing to die, you know. 10 years old, I became extremely suicidal. Just, I had ideation all day long every day.

[Interviewer]

What does that look like when you're 10?

[Seth Gale]

I thought about jumping out of my window. I thought about if I fall out of my window just right, I'll break my neck and die. Thought about hanging myself. Thought about cutting myself, jumping into the river. I just didn't want to feel pain. If I could do it without feeling pain, I probably would have done it. But I was so terrified of the pain of it all. Like, I was just scared of pain I didn't want to feel, you know, I wasn't scared of dying. I was just scared of feeling it, you know? And so I wanted to die. So all of these things were happening. And, you know, Mondo, he was the only person that I could talk to, reason being. He would listen to everything I said. Not only that, but as I told him more about my life. I didn't have a father. I had a single mother. I had two sisters. I was getting bullied at school. I was really smart, but I got bullied, you know, had a really tough life at home. Mondo would tell me the same things, right? So he would say, well, I grew up with a single mom. I have a couple sisters. My father was never in my life. I also got bullied at school. I was also very smart, and he was a really smart guy.

[Interviewer]

So was it true or was he just mirroring you?

[Seth Gale]

It's hard to say.

[Interviewer]

To draw you in and build your trust.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, it's hard to say. You know, I can't say yes or no to that. I think most people would say he was mirroring, right? That's part of the process of grooming.

[Interviewer]

Grooming, right.

[Seth Gale]

Building that trust, you know? And so he became the only person that I could talk to. And I would talk to him every single night or close to it. I'd call him, you know, at night, and. And so it's hard to say whether he was mirroring or if he was being sincere. You know, whenever we were at his family events, his family didn't seem to have a problem with him. He was definitely like the oddball of the family. You know, obviously, hanging out with a kid is weird enough, but, you know, he didn't have a family. He didn't have kids. He didn't have girlfriends. He was, you know, so he was definitely the outcast of the family. But I don't know how bad his childhood was relative to that.

[Interviewer]

How were his social skills around other adults.

[Seth Gale]

He was incredibly charismatic. He was the funniest guy in the room. He was the big teddy bear. Everybody wanted to hug him and love him. And he was. He was the epitome of a wolf and sheep clothing. He was everything that you want out of somebody. And in fact, this is. This is one of the hardest things about sexual trauma is the person that is going to abuse you. Like I said earlier, right? They're either very close to you or in your household. Therefore, they are a good person in your life. Right. Mondo is arguably the best thing that ever happened to me while also being the worst thing that ever happened to me. Okay, so most people, it's like their mom, their dad, grandma, grandpa, cousin, uncle, whatever, right? That person likely played a pivotal role in their life. They taught them how to ride a bike, taught them how to throw a baseball, taught them how to do their homework, took them to, you know, vacations, had fun with them, but they were also molesting them, sexually abusing them. Right? So while that person helped them develop, they also tore them down at the same time. Mondo was very much that person for me. He was such a good guy outside of the abuse. I mean, he was so funny. He cared about me, he listened to me. He loved me. And I think a lot of victims of sexual trauma have a hard time admitting that part because it sounds disgusting.

[Interviewer]

You know, Built you a sanctuary.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, basically.

[Interviewer]

But low standards, horrifying sanctuary.

[Seth Gale]

Right.

[Interviewer]

But good enough in comparison to your week.

[Seth Gale]

Right, right. And he would talk me through a lot of things, too. So, like, I would call him and say, like, hey, this is happening. And he would just listen, and he'd give me sound advice. You know, He. He would. I mean, he really was helpful, truly, with that. He was also maybe just being deceptive and manipulative at this, you know, at the root of it all.

[Interviewer]

And it's time for a break.

[Seth Gale]

Hey, everybody.

[Interviewer]

This is Matt Rogers and Dawen Yang.

[Seth Gale]

And you're never gonna guess who's our guest on Las Culturistas.

[Interviewer]

It is Bradley Jackson, Elle Woods, Tracy.

[Seth Gale]

Flick herself, Reese Witherspoon.

[Interviewer]

Reese, we must go on a girls trip.

[Seth Gale]

I have to have a tequila.

[Interviewer]

We must.

[Seth Gale]

Oh, the Q rating. When they run diagnostics, we can run it on you guys. I'd be scared.

[Interviewer]

Don't run the Q, Raider.

[Seth Gale]

No, I'm the curators. I get it. My resiliency score is down to adequate because we were on a red eye. My resiliency. Where's your grit?

[Interviewer]

My grit?

[Seth Gale]

I gotta get my grit score up. Now, don't think that you're gonna come on Las Culturistas, the podcast, and we're not gonna at least bring up Big Little Lies, season three.

[Interviewer]

Whoever said orange is the new pink? Seriously disturbed.

[Seth Gale]

Listen to las culturist the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jorge Ramos.

[Interviewer]

And I'm Paola Ramos.

[Seth Gale]

Together we're launching the Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time as uncertain as this one.

[Interviewer]

We sit down with politicians.

[Seth Gale]

I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations, but 40% of New Yorkers were born outside of this country.

[Interviewer]

Artists and activists. I mean, do you ever feel demoralized?

[Seth Gale]

I might personally lose hope. This individual might lose the faith, but there's an institution that doesn't lose faith, and that's what I believed in.

[Interviewer]

To bring you depth and analysis from.

[Seth Gale]

A unique Latino perspective, There's not a single day that Paula and I don't call or text each other, sharing news and thoughts about what's happening in the country. This new podcast will be a way to make that ongoing intergenerational conversation public. Listen to the moment with Jorge Ramos and Paula Ramos as part of the.

[Interviewer]

My Cultura podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It was an unimaginable crime. It's four consecutive live terms for Bryan Kohberger, who killed the four University of Idaho students.

[Seth Gale]

The defense are on a sinking ship. It was clear at that point he was out of options.

[Interviewer]

Nearly 30 months of silence until bombshell development. Bryan Kohberger appearing set to accept a plea deal just five weeks before his quadruple murder trial was set to start. No trial, no testimony.

[Seth Gale]

He has pleaded guilty to five criminal counts, one of burglary and then four counts of murder.

[Interviewer]

In this final season, we return to Moscow with interviews from from those still searching for answers.

[Seth Gale]

Why did the prosecution take this? They were holding all the cars.

[Interviewer]

How on earth could you make a deal? What message does that send? Listen to season three of the Idaho Massacre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Seth Gale]

Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Interviewer]

Liz went from being interested in true crime to living true crime. My husband comes back outside and he's shaking, and he just looks like he's seen a ghost. And he's just in shock. And he said, your dad's been killed. This is Hands Tied, a true crime podcast exploring the murder of Jim Melgar. Liz's mom had just been found shut in a closet, her hands and feet tied up, shouting for help. I was just completely in shock. Her dad had been stabbed to death. It didn't feel real at all. For more than a decade, Liz has been trying to figure out what happened there's. A lot of guilt, I think, pushing me, and I just, I want answers. Listen to Hands tied on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Nicole Angemi Penns and creator of the autopsy blog, the Gross Room. And I'm Maria Q. Kane. Together we're the mother daughter duo behind the Mother Knows Death podcast. On our show, we tackle burning questions like what happens when you're stuck in an amusement ride upside down for hours? Or why are celebrities always eating their placentas? Is the latest TikTok trend dangerous? The answer is yes. It's always yes. And most importantly, what is anal breathing? Each week we explore the most bizarre stories in the news. And believe us, it just gets weirder. Every week, we share real life stories, dissect shocking autopsy findings, and delve into the dark humor that comes with discussing death. And now we are excited to announce that we are joining the I Heart Podcast network. Whether you're a true crime aficionado or just have a tinge of morbid curiosity, there's something for everyone on Mother Knows Death. New episodes of our show drop twice a week. Listen to Mother Knows Death on America's number one podcast network, I Heart. Open your free I Heart app and search Mother Knows Death. It's a common question, what makes a pedophile? And it's, you know, was he being deceptive and manipulative and. Or were you the person he could connect to because he didn't have the capacity to really, truly connect to people his age?

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. You know, he. So that's. With that, I would say he, he was more than capable of connecting with people his age. I mean, we, we had adult friends, we would hang out with adult friends. And I mean, he was, he, he was a social butterfly. He would walk into a room and everybody would light up and want to talk to him. You know, which is what makes him even more dangerous because why would. That guy wouldn't do anything, you know.

[Interviewer]

So he was just sexually attracted to children?

[Seth Gale]

Possibly, Yeah. I think there's a lot of just the power dynamic behind it all. Not necessarily sexual. That's what I've read, you know, that there is this, like, insatiable desire for power. And when you can manipulate people, it does feel good. Speaking from experience, I'll probably get into it later. It does feel good to be able to manipulate people and to be able to control people's emotions and you basically read their minds. It feels good to do that. Yeah. So we Built commonality, which is typical. And everything just kind of escalated from that point forward. From the time I was 10 to 12, you know, every weekend was like rounding the bases. It was touching me and then, you know, it would be, you know, a finger in the waistband, two fingers in the waistband, the whole hands in the waistband now is his hands on my bear. But then he began to attempt to penetrate me with his fingers and then it began to use his fingers on me. You know, I remember there's a jar of Vaseline next to his bed. And you know, I still remember what it looks like today. I still remember the scoops that you could see inside the jar from his fingers. In fact, one of the more like haunting, you know, details of it all, I remember one time he's trying to use his finger and I told him it hurt. And he said, what do you mean? You know, I was like 10 years old and he had long nails. I told him, I said, your nails, I can feel your nails, they hurt. And the next weekend I came back to his house and he was such a gentleman and that he trimmed his nails for this 10 year old boy, you know, which is horrific. Yeah. And those details I think are, I get, you know, I can get pretty graphic. My book is pretty graphic. But they're, I think they're important because I think when people hear molestation or I was touched or like they assume like the weird uncle like kind of touched your butt, they don't realize that people are like committing full on sexual acts on children.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Seth Gale]

Like this is not like a innocent playground touch. This is like basically rape. And it is, it is.

[Interviewer]

Right, so it's violent.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Rape.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Because of your age and your size compared to his.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah. And so, so it would just continue and continue. You know, it went from him using his fingers on me to eventually, I guess the term would be like masturbating me and using his hands on me. And then eventually he would ask for it to be reciprocated. Right. So he would ask for me to use my, to, to use my hands. And you know, there's some pretty disgusting moments in that too. I can remember the first time I ever like he pulled my hand down to make me touch him. He was wearing underwear and everything was wet. And I thought that the guy had pissed himself. Because I was 10 years old, I didn't know what this was. I was just like, oh my God, this guy pissed himself. In fact, turns out that he was so aroused that he was basically ejaculating before I had even Touched him, which is just. That's just disgusting. You know, it's just. It's just. It's. It's horrifying that so many kids are experiencing this. And for me, too, I. I didn't. There was no when. Whenever we were back in his bed. There was no clock back there. I didn't have it like a frame of reference for time. I would just lay back there in the black blankets, darkness. And I just knew that when the beast was fed, he would leave me alone, you know, and every weekend, it became like this thing where I just wanted to play video games and eat pizza, and he just wanted to do this with. He just wanted to abuse this little boy. And the longer I fought off that abuse every weekend, whether it was a few hours or one hour, whatever it was, the more I fought it, the more manipulative he would become. You know, he would just. It was. It's like mind control where somebody can reach in your. Reach in your head, grab your brain and force you to do things that you don't want to do. Because eventually it gets exhausting. Especially as a kid, 10, 11, 12 years old. It's exhausting. You can't win that fight, you know, so it was just. And I didn't have a way to escape, so it was just exhausting. So eventually you just cave and you perform and you do what he wants you to do. And so to circle back to the hair comment I mentioned earlier, while he would abuse me, he would tell me, you know, you're too pretty to be a boy. And he would make comments about my hair, and he'd make comments about my body. And as I hit puberty, he would talk about growing and hair in different places. And he was, like, proud to, like, watch my body, you know, develop, you know, you. You know, by the time I was 12 years old, I had experience almost every sexual act and experience you can have with somebody. I had done with him over the course of about two years. 12 years old, I get home from his house one day. My sisters are at my neighbor's house, which is weird. So I went over there. They're watching a TV show called Intervention, and it's about getting people off of drugs. At the end, we'd never seen it before, but at the end of the episode, they post their contact info and they say, hey, if you know somebody, you can get them. You know, we'll come and do an intervention. And so we're like, oh, shit, like, we know somebody. Let's get mom on the show. Can't make this up. You know, the coincidence is pretty uncanny. Walk outside. There's a fire in the front yard. My mom's boyfriend walks out. He's got blood all over his shirt. He had just been stabbed in the bathroom by my mom over some drugs. Oh. Cops pull up, they take my mom away. And basically I was living with like, just random people, people that I knew. And then, you know, they would tell me, hey, you got to go, we can't take care of you. And then I would go to somebody else's house, and I'd go to somebody else's house. And I bounced around like four or five houses. My grandparents, they took me in so that they could adopt me. They found me, you know, and so I got to my grandparents house, my sister's already there. The plan was for them to adopt all three of us. I said yes. My sisters, they said yes. Initially. About a week later, they told my grandparents they wanted to go back to my mom's house. Back to a house with no utilities, you know, no money, no food. Because my mom had manipulated them as well and convinced them to, to go back and live with her. So I stayed with my grandparents. A couple weeks later, I tell my grandparents, I got this friend who I want to hang out with. So in comes Mondo. My grandparents initially were like, hesitant. You know, they're like, nope, we got to meet him. Like, you're not hanging out with this man. So he, Mondo shows up to the house one weekend and gets a laugh out of them. You know, right away, gets in the house, boom, he's back in the saddle. He's good, he's. He's convinced my grandparents he's a good guy. He tells him that, you know, he had a bad childhood. And, you know, he knows that Seth had a bad situation with his mom and he's just trying to help me out. So now at this point, Mondo has become, he has entered my family instead of me going to his situations all the time. Now Seth is the kid with the adult friend. Just kind of crazy.

[Interviewer]

It's very crazy.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And very predatory, right?

[Seth Gale]

So now he's in, he's in my house and he's doing all the things.

[Interviewer]

And you know, he's sexually assaulting you in your house?

[Seth Gale]

No, no, he would only ever do that at his house. But you know what was crazy by this point? So about 13 years old, I was about 13 years old at this point. And I remember right around my birthday, turning 13, going to his house. And that was the first time he, he, he Rapes me. Yeah. Rapes me in its entirety, I guess, you know, so calls me back to the bed. I remember the whole thing like it was yesterday. Pushes me towards his bed, you know, hands and knees. And he. He rapes me. And I. I basically caved. He had attempted to do this multiple times, and at this point, I kind of was just like. I just let it happen, you know, and I accepted my fate, basically. That night, I remember going, as soon as he was done, he pulls out a towel, wipes me up. I go to the bathroom, sit on the toilet, and I'm just crying. Yeah. Getting things out of my body and just wondering, why this? Why me? You know, why don't I have a mom? Why don't I have a dad? Why the drugs, the violence, the abuse? Why all these things? And then even more of it was like, you know, am I. People are going to think I'm gay now. People are going to think I have aids. People are going to think, like, why are you sleeping with this man? Why are you having sex with this man? People are going to think all these, like, horrible things about me. So I can't say anything at this point, you know? So I think before this night, maybe I wasn't reporting him out of, like, the sake of our friendship and the little bit of enjoyment that I did get at his house. But from this point forward, I mean, I hated every minute. I mean, I hated every minute of it, period. But from this point forward, I had to protect myself. And I didn't realize this until, you know, just this year, that I couldn't report him, because if I go and tell somebody what happened, I have to admit that, like, I was there and I participated and I did certain things. And although it was not my fault, I was there and I was a participant in said act, you know, whatever it was. And no matter how much manipulation or deceiving or whatever you want to throw at it, that's all true. But it. What is also true is I was there and I participated. And so I just didn't want to admit those things to people. You know, I didn't want to get tested and to see positive HIV or whatever on a. On a piece of paper. I mean, I was terrified. I didn't know what any of that stuff was or how it worked, but those are the things that I would have nightmares about, you know, And I just. So I didn't want to report him. I didn't want to. I didn't want to admit that I had done those things, you know, And So keep it a secret. So a couple years later, I was about a month away from turning 16. I was up at his house, and I had a younger friend who was with me. This kid was 13 or 14, probably. And Mondo made a comment towards him. Mondo would make these same comments towards me around other adults. So we had other adult friends we'd hang out with. And when I was over at. We'd be over at their house hanging out, and Mondo would say, hey, well, we gotta go, because, you know, we're gonna go back to the apartment so Seth can blow me, is what he would say. Or, I'm gonna go back so I can Seth tonight.

[Interviewer]

He would say that to other adults.

[Seth Gale]

He would. He would say it right in front of other adults.

[Interviewer]

What would they do?

[Seth Gale]

They would laugh. If I was sitting right here with my wife right next to me, and I said, hey, me and. Hey, Autumn, hold on. Me and Dr. Leslie are gonna go in the other room and have sex real quick. I wouldn't, like. Why would I say that in front of my wife? Why would I admit that I'm gonna go cheat on her right in front of her? I wouldn't do that.

[Interviewer]

Like, so you think he was just making it so obvious that they wouldn't question it?

[Seth Gale]

It's just hiding in plain sight is all it is. Yeah, it's. It's saying the most outlandish thing in front of people, because what do you have to hide? I don't have anything to hide. Obviously, I'm not going to do this. And so all these people would sit around and laugh, and we'd go back to his apartment and things would happen, you know. So he made a comment towards my friend. That night I was playing the video games on the computer. He says to my younger friend, you know, if you're having a bad day, I could take you back in the bed and blow you. Says it right in front of me. And we both all kind of. We know. I think there's only three of us in the room. We kind of laugh it off. But I knew what was happening, you know, and this was the first time I can ever remember him saying that to somebody else. But then also my friend going back to the bed with him. And I don't think anything happened to my friend. I don't know. He. I don't think anything happened. You know, short time afterwards, he comes out. And during that, while they were back there, I had messaged my other friend Jacob, who introduced me to Mondo several years prior. Jacob is in College now. I messaged Jacob, and I said, hey, I got to talk to you tomorrow. And so he says, okay, you got it. So Mondo comes out. Very long story between what happens over the next 12 hours. But Mondo ends up raping me that night. I go to sleep, wake up. Mondo takes me and my younger friend home, drops me off first, goes drop off my younger friend Jacob shows up at my house. And Jacob gets there. I said, hey, man, I got to talk to you about something. I've been wanting to tell you this for a long time. And we go back into my bedroom. I can't say the words out loud. Basically, I'm just kind of, like, stuck. Can't say it. And he breaks the silence with Mondo. Touched you, didn't he? And when he says that, I fall apart, start crying. It's obvious. It's a yes. And after about five minutes, he breaks the silence again, and he says, he did it to me, too. And so my friend Jacob, who was like my role model, like hero, big brother, like father, man figure in my life, he was like, he was just my hero. Like, he was just who this kid was to me. He. He admitted that he had also gone through the same thing with the same man. And we had no idea, right, between the two of us, several years prior. So about 10 years between the two of us, between me and Jacob. So we go out, we report him, go down to the hospital. You know, nurses come in. They're doing the whole forensic interview with me, the nurse and the. The police officer, Chad Couples from Bluffton, Ohio. He's the one who gets called into the case. I tell Chad everything that happened to me. We go back in. The nurses ask me, you know, do you have anything at your house, in your laundry that you've worn to his house recently? And I. You know, the room's really quiet, and I say, well, you know, he just raped me about 12 hours ago. And I've not taken a shower. I haven't changed my clothes. Like, I have everything on me right now. And the silence in the room was, like, deafening. Like, everybody's just like. Like, holy. So they're like, okay, take her clothes off. Like, we need to test you now, you know? So they. They do the whole test. Chad goes up and arrests the guy that night.

[Interviewer]

How was that? How was getting a rape kit done and all of that?

[Seth Gale]

I was just kind of like, whatever. Like, I knew I was going to report him. And so once I made that decision, I was okay with it. Like, I was like, fine. I just kind of was like, whatever, you know, they swabbed me and a couple other things. I don't really remember a whole lot from that, the specifics of the kit, but, you know, they did what they needed to do. I actually have all those records in my possession now, which is pretty cool. But, yeah, Chad went up there, arrested him, and they got a confession out of him that night, out of custody, and he only admitted to a couple things.

[Interviewer]

What did he admit to? Admit to?

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, so he admitted to attempting to have sex with me. He admitted to abusing Jacob, I think, nearly in entirety. Like, everything.

[Interviewer]

Raping him?

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, I think so.

[Interviewer]

He didn't admit to raping you?

[Seth Gale]

No. And he. He said that, you know, he had performed fellatio on me several times and vice versa, that I had done it to him several times. And even the officers were like, explain what that is. You know, so he says, oral sex. This is all, like, in the. In the documents, in the police records. And so he admits all that, and they were going to charge him with 11 felony counts of, like, sexual misconduct. Then he was offered a plea deal. So he got four counts. So he said he was sentenced to 10 years in prison.

[Interviewer]

That's it?

[Seth Gale]

Yeah. In 2011, he was sentenced to 10 years in Prison. What's really crazy about that is he ran a haunted house in his hometown. So he ran a haunted house out of his mom's front porch in Bluffton, Ohio, on Main Street. Thousands of kids would come through every year, and he was sentenced to 10 years in prison, although he admitted to basically, you know, sexually abusing, raping, molesting two boys. And so he'd be free today. Fortunately enough, he died in prison. 2019. He died about a year or so before he's supposed to get out, supposedly of a staph infection.

[Interviewer]

Do you think that's true?

[Seth Gale]

Probably, yeah. A lot of people say, like, prison justice, but from what I know, there are so many pedophiles now. They get their own ward. They're not in the general population, and they're protected and they're. They're some of the most peaceful people in the prison because that's how they operate. They don't operate by force. They operate through manipulation. You know, they have no reason to be forceful with anybody. It doesn't work.

[Interviewer]

We're going to take a quick break, and we'll be right back.

[Seth Gale]

Hey, everybody, this is Matt Rogers and Belen Yang, and you're never going to guess who's our guest on Las Culturistas.

[Interviewer]

It is Bradley Jackson, Elle Woods, Tracy.

[Seth Gale]

Flick herself, Reese Withers Spoon. We must go on a girls trip. I have to have a tequila.

[Interviewer]

We must.

[Seth Gale]

Oh, the Q rating. When they run diagnostics, we can run it on you guys. I'd be scared.

[Interviewer]

Don't run the Q rating.

[Seth Gale]

No, I'm the. My resiliency score is down to adequate because we were on a red eye. My resiliency score. My grit. I gotta get my grit score up. Now, don't think that you're gonna come on Las Culturistas, the podcast, and we're not gonna at least bring up Big Little Lies, season three.

[Interviewer]

Whoever said orange is the new pink? Like, seriously, seriously disturbed.

[Seth Gale]

Listen to Las culturistas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jorge Ramos.

[Interviewer]

And I am Paula Ramos.

[Seth Gale]

Together we're launching the Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time and as uncertain as this one.

[Interviewer]

We sit down with politicians.

[Seth Gale]

I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations, but 40% of New Yorkers were born outside of this country.

[Interviewer]

Artists and activists. I mean, do you ever feel demoralized?

[Seth Gale]

I might personally lose hope. This individual might lose the faith. But there's an institution that doesn't lose faith, and that's what I believed in.

[Interviewer]

To bring you depth and analysis from a unique Latino perspective.

[Seth Gale]

There's not a single day that Paula and I don't call or text each other, sharing news and thoughts about what's happening in the country. This new podcast will be a way to make that ongoing intergenerational conversation public. Listen to the Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paul Ramos as part of the.

[Interviewer]

My Cultura Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It was an unimaginable crime. It's four consecutive live terms for Bryan Kohberger, who killed the four University of Idaho students.

[Seth Gale]

The defense are on a sinking ship. It was clear at that point he was out of options.

[Interviewer]

Nearly 30 months of silence until bombshell development. Bryan Kohberger appearing, set to accept a plea deal just five weeks before his quadruple murder trial was set to start. No trial, no testimony.

[Seth Gale]

He has pleaded guilty to five criminal counts, one of burglary and then four counts of murder.

[Interviewer]

In this final season, we return to Moscow with interviews from those still searching for answers.

[Seth Gale]

Why did the prosecution take this? They were holding all the cards.

[Interviewer]

How on earth could you make a deal? What message does that send? Listen to season three of the Idaho Massacre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Seth Gale]

Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Interviewer]

Liz went from being interested in true crime to living true crime. My husband comes back outside and he's. He's shaking and he just looks like he's seen a ghost and he's just in shock. And he said, your. Your dad's been killed. This is Hands Tied, a true crime podcast exploring the murder of Jim Milgar. Liz's mom had just been found shut in a closet, her hands and feet tied up, shouting for help. I was just completely in shock. Her dad had been stabbed to death. It didn't feel real at all. For more than a decade, Liz has been trying to figure out what happened. There's a lot of guilt, I think, pushing me, and I just, I want answers. Listen to Hands tied on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Nicole Angemi, P.A. and creator of the autopsy blog the Gross Room. And I'm Maria Q. Kain. Together we're the mother daughter duo behind the Mother Knows Death podcast. On our show, we tackle burning questions like what happens when you're stuck in an amusement ride upside down for hours? Or why are celebrities always eating their placentas? Is the latest TikTok trend dangerous? The answer is yes. It's always yes. And most importantly, what is anal breathing? Each week, we explore the most bizarre stories in the news. And believe us, it just gets weirder. Every week, we share real life stories, dissect shocking autopsy findings, and delve into the dark humor that comes with discussing death. And now we are excited to announce that we are joining the I Heart Podcast Network. Whether you're a true crime aficionado or just have a tinge of morbid curiosity, there's something for everyone on Mother Knows Death. New episodes of our show drop twice a week. Listen to Mother Knows Death on America's number one podcast network, I Heart. Open your free I Heart app and search Mother Knows Death. How was it when you found out he was dead?

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, so. Well, I'll say one thing real quick. When I reported him, just to be clear, like, this is kind of what's crazy is I just went back to school. Like, I just, like, never went to therapy, never saw a doctor, never, like, no treatment, nothing. I was just like, back to school. Life goes on like nothing happened, basically, and kept everything a secret. I found out he died while I was in Afghanistan. So, you know, I joined the army, whatever. Go to the, you know, go, go, go through the Military. I had a combat tour in 2019, and. And. Okay.

[Interviewer]

You joined the army and you were deployed to Afghanistan.

[Seth Gale]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

For combat, yeah. Okay. That's massive.

[Seth Gale]

Yes. My deployment wasn't anything like. It wasn't, we would say, like, kinetic. There wasn't a lot going on. My deployment was very calm and relatively peaceful. As far as deployments go, we didn't lose anybody. I didn't have any direct contact. I didn't have to kill or shoot anybody. The most that we had were some rockets that come in, which, yes, it is terrifying, but it wasn't like this, like, heroic movie scene kind of thing that you see. You know, what made the situation worse for me was childhood trauma kind of. Kind of exacerbates the effects of war, so it makes it worse, you know, so.

[Interviewer]

Can you say more?

[Seth Gale]

You're in a. You're in an environment that's chaotic, to say the least. You know, there's just a lot going on when you're sleeping at night. You know, if a rocket comes in, that's really the more terrifying ones because you can't see anything and you're in.

[Interviewer]

Full gear all the time.

[Seth Gale]

No, that's like a big misconception.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Seth Gale]

You know, you're. You're. You're rarely in. In kit. You're really rarely in gear. Most of the time, you're kind of walking around and just your uniform, you know, doing kind of admin stuff or. Because I was just a regular army guy. The special operators, they're out running. Running a gun, and they're out doing a lot more than what we were. We're just. We just were not special. We weren't special Operations, so we were a qrf, which basically means Quick Reaction Force. If one of the special operation guys would get into a situation, they needed help, basically, if one or two of them were shot, they would call us and we would come in and save them. Because we just had a massive. A massive.

[Interviewer]

We're so humble. If someone was shot, you had to be ready at any minute to go save them.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. Yes. There's a lot to it.

[Interviewer]

But in Afghanistan.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, but it's. I know it sounds like crazy, and. And it is. It is. It is crazy.

[Interviewer]

I mean, war is crazy, right? It is crazy.

[Seth Gale]

It is.

[Interviewer]

But the fact that your whole youth was war leads you to interpret. Being in war is not that big of a deal.

[Seth Gale]

Well, most guys would. Most guys would explain it the same way I'm explaining it.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Seth Gale]

Oh, yeah, 100%. Let me circle back and answer your Last your question. When I found out he died, I didn't really care. When I found out my abuser died, I was in Afghanistan. I got a call from my wife, said, hey, you know, Mondo died. I said, okay. Didn't affect me. I was like, don't really care whether he died or lived. I say that now. If he would have survived, if he was still alive today, I don't know how I would feel. I can't say how I would feel because he's not here. I could assume that I probably wouldn't care. But given today's day and age, where you can find anybody on the Internet, you can find out where they live, all those things. I can imagine maybe I might have different feelings, you know, because he.

[Interviewer]

He would have been out.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, he would have got out in 21.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah. So.

[Interviewer]

What would that have been like?

[Seth Gale]

I don't know. I don't know. It's hard to say. You know, I think. I think part of me would maybe be a little worried, but I didn't care. I mean, I never thought about him. Like, I never thought about the situation. Never. You know, I was never scared of him getting out. Like, I was never worried about him finding me. Like, none of that ever concerned me. So I don't think it would have affected me, you know, But I can't say that uncertainty, because it never happened. You know, you never got out. So. But there is this interesting thing with. You had mentioned, like, my childhood being like, war. Right. Which it absolutely was. Yeah. My childhood is. It's funny when I tell people I'm a combat veteran, you know, they're like, oh, wow, you must have seen some shit. It's like, not really. I didn't really have a bad time in the Army. All of my pain and suffering came by the time I was 16 years old, you know, but there's this thing when I joined the military where. Especially when I got to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, when I was in the 82nd. In the 82nd, there's a lot of former Rangers, former Green Berets or current that are there. There's just a lot of special operation guys that are there. And I would always look at those guys like they were, like, heroes and. And they are just some savage human beings. They certainly are. They. There's a rigorous, like, testing process and. And selection process they all go through. And I would always look at those guys, like, man, I wonder, like, what. How hard their life is compared to my childhood. And in recent conversation with a buddy of mine, he was Talking to a Navy SEAL about this similar situation. And one of the interesting things about the childhood that I endured is in comparison to our special operators is I didn't have a bell to ring. So I didn't like, choose my path. I didn't like, sign up for this. And when I got tired and hungry and wanted to quit, I didn't have like a bell to ring. I didn't have somebody 15ft away in a warm truck saying like, hey man, if you quit, you could just get in this truck and we'll go home and you can just stop. I didn't have that. I had no option but to continue moving forward. Right. So I think that was kind of like a crazy thing. And to even go further down that rabbit hole of the. The difference is, is I don't get some award for this. Like, I don't. There's no accolade that I get for the survival of my childhood. There's no like badge that I get to wear that says xyz. In fact, I don't even get a title for nothing. I don't. I'm not a Green Beret, I'm not a Navy seal. I'm not a Marine Raider, I'm not a parachute jumper or whatever pararescue. I, I'm a survivor. I'm a victim. I am, I fit in this box with other people that are damaged and broken, addicted, suffering, generational trauma. Right? So that, that, that is, that is the award that I got. That is the accolade that I carry, right? So these people that you see like that are outside, homeless and addicted, like, that's their tab that they're wearing on their shoulder that says what they've been through. Like, that's the, that is their selection process was their childhood likely that put them in the, in the place that they're at. And that's the accolade that they get to wear. That's the representation that they get for the rest of their lives. So there's a, there is an interesting thing about, you know, not having that bell to ring as a child to just quit and give up and survive. You have no option but to survive. And then what do you get out of it?

[Interviewer]

What do you think that did to you? I mean, you talked about One way Streets earlier.

[Seth Gale]

What do you think my childhood did?

[Interviewer]

Well, trauma is different when it feels like a one way street that you can't get off. Right. Compared to trauma in the military where, you know, it's time limited and you can leave.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How did that make you who you are or change who you were.

[Seth Gale]

My childhood set me up for failure in a lot of ways. In the same way that it. It made me who I am as being a resilient and tough individual. Right? But that, that resiliency, it can only be utilized if it's, like, captured. Like, you have to capture it and understand the gift of adversity, the gift of trauma. If you don't understand those things. Like, I did not understand those things for a long time. I talk the way I talk now, and people think like, wow, you're just an incredible person. It's like, I have not always been like this. This has been a process.

[Interviewer]

So if you're talking to a group of big burly men who have. Who don't want to be seen as people who have been molested or raped, what would you say to them? How do they capture the resiliency?

[Seth Gale]

This. Whatever you're going through in life, you're having a hard time, you're struggling, you're resentful, you lack empathy and compassion and love. Those things are hard to express. Like, you're not alone. You're not the only one. I think everybody feels alone. I think everybody feels like I'm the only one that's going through this. I thought I was the only one that was going through it. And to be honest, like, you're not special. Like, you're not special. Everybody has trauma, everybody has adversity. Whether it hits you in your childhood or in your adulthood, everybody's going to go through it, you know, so you're not special. So I think if we get past that and get out of our heads. Because what I would do is I would say you, like, you don't know what I've been through. You aren't shit. You aren't as tough as me. You aren't. I could. I could put whatever I want on you because you've not endured the same thing that I have. So I have this inherent resentment for you, right? And what you have to do is turn that into a level of, like, compassion and empathy. So now instead of saying, you know what you didn't have, addicted mother and a father who spent his life in prison, now I say, I am so happy that you had good parents. I'm so glad you did not have to experience what I went through. It doesn't make me any better or you any worse or any less.

[Interviewer]

But how did you find that shift?

[Seth Gale]

Well, I had to read a lot of books. I read several books. There is a. You have to have Empathy for people, okay? If you can't have empathy for people, you can't have empathy for yourself. You have to understand that what you went through or whatever pain or suffering or whatever crap you went through, it likely changed you. You went through it, you survived. You're good. You can. You have to be able to look back at yourself and be like, okay, this person went through these hard times, and now they're okay now. And maybe they made some mistakes, maybe. Maybe some of it was your fault, you know? And understanding that it's okay like this, it's okay. Because when you look at other people, you have to look at them the same way. Like that person. You can't look at them on the surface like something probably happened to that person that made them who they are today or didn't have him. They probably didn't have a mom and a dad to take care of them, and that's why they are the way they are. Once you have that level of empathy and you're able to acknowledge your pain, you know, a little bit and say, okay, you know what? I have been through some hard times because I wrote my book three times and deleted it three times before I told my story. Because I would write it out and I'd be like, nobody gives a shit. Like, this doesn't matter. Like, it's not a big deal. But once I finally committed to it and I was like, you know what this is going to make? This is going to make a difference. It's going to make an impact. Once I acknowledge that, that was powerful, right? And the next step is owning it now. Okay, you've had some hard times. Got it. You had some bad past and trauma, adversity, got it. Now you need to own it. And ownership is just taking responsibility of the things in the future. You cannot control what's in the past. Everybody's got one, so you might as well do something about it now. Like, that is a decision that people have to make. That is. That is a hard decision. And it's. It's a decision that you have to make repeatedly. People ask me like, you know, Seth, how do you. How do you wake up and be grateful every day? It's a decision. It's an attitude. It's Empathy is an attitude. Gratitude is an attitude. It is not this, like, magical pill that you take it one time. And now I know I'm just. I have gratitude for everything. It's like, no, I have to actively do it, right? I got on the plane this morning, I was hungry, had a five hour Flight got out here, I was hot, tired, and hungry, and I'm fine. I'm happy. I'm good. Why? Because I chose to be. You know, I chose this route. So if you chose the. If you choose the path of resentment and anger and fear, if you choose those things every day, that's the life that you will live. And until you decide to choose another life, that's going to be the one that you. That you get stuck with. You know? And when I got married and I had two kids and I was in the military, and it was time for me to start getting out, like, I had to choose what Seth was going to be. Was he going to be the guy in the corner at every holiday event who's just pissed off at the world because nobody had it as bad as him? Or is he going to help people realize that, to be honest, nobody gives a shit about your past. Like, nobody cares. Like, we can sit here and talk about it, and I can have the empathy for you, and I can have the compassion and say, man, that's tough. I understand where you're coming from. But at the end of the day, it's not going to get you a job. It's not going to get you paid. It's not going to put food on the table. So you might as well make a decision to be like, you know what? From this day forward, I'm moving forward. I might mess up. I might have a couple bad days in the future, but I'm going to kick back up and I'm going to keep fighting. Because, like, everything I've been through, whatever the next obstacle is, whether it's writing a book or telling my story or being denied, it is not going to be the thing that stops me. It's not going to be. That's not it. It's just not. That's not going to be the thing. All this shit that I've been through, my life, that's what I would tell other men. All that shit that you've been through, and you're going to let somebody's interpretation of you hold you back?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Seth Gale]

They're going to think less of you because you're this big man with a beard and you do jiu jitsu, or you're a combat veteran and you run ultramarathons, and, like, you're worried about, like, this fucking person who's sitting on the couch not doing shit. You're worried about, like, their opinion. Like, it's an attitude. It's an attitude and then decisions, and it's a daily Thing Everybody, like I said, everybody thinks it's like, I'm happy now and I'm good and successful and I can talk now and whatever. Write a book. Like, it doesn't happen like that, man. It's a process.

[Interviewer]

It's hard fucking work, and it's action.

[Seth Gale]

It is.

[Interviewer]

So, in a sense, you stopped looking back and you stopped looking inward. You started looking forward and letting people be in your forward vision, and now you can motivate them, right?

[Seth Gale]

That took a lot of work, though. I mean, that took. The first thing I fixed, oddly enough, was my leadership style in the military. I read a book when I was right before I left for my deployment. I read a book about extreme ownership by Jocko Willink. Started reading that. It's like, okay, I need to fix myself. I need to own my life and own and take responsibility of everything that's in my life and going forward. Okay. Then I fixed my financial problem. Me and my wife are massively in debt. So we got out of debt. Fix my educational problem. I went and got my degree. The next thing was. The dead last thing that I fixed was my marriage, which should have been the first thing in reality, but that was the hardest thing for me to fix. It was so hard for me to tell my wife that I loved her. I was in so much pain. I could not tell somebody that. I could not tell my wife that I loved her because I loved her more than anything else in the world, and I loved my kids, but I just could not express that to her because it's just hard. It's just so hard to express that for somebody when every bit of love and compassion and all those things has been ripped from you your whole life. My wife had a mom and a dad and brothers and sisters and a good family and came from good money and all those things. And so it would just piss me off to think that I could love her. So that was the last thing that I fixed. And, I mean, I tried to divorce my wife multiple times. I pushed her away. I was resentful of her.

[Interviewer]

What would. What did it mean to tell her you loved her before you were ready to?

[Seth Gale]

It was very, like, in passing, it was just like, love you too. It didn't mean anything, you know, I just said it as like a formality, you know, I was so resentful of her in so many ways. I would get so mad that the house was dirty. I'd get mad that the dishes weren't clean, the laundry wasn't done. She wasn't raising the kids the way that I wanted her to raise the kids. She wasn't going to the gym that I wanted her to go to. She wasn't, you know, getting the job that I wanted her to get. And it didn't matter what she did, it wasn't going to be good enough for me. Why? Because I chose that resentment towards her. And this is the reason why so many people that go through this get divorced. Right?

[Interviewer]

Because she was your easy target.

[Seth Gale]

She was the easy target. She's in the room. She. Everything she did didn't matter what it was. I could put it in the hate bucket and just hate her for it. Right. And it was. And that. So I talked about this earlier, controlling people's emotions and being manipulative while I was doing that to my wife. And it did feel good. I could come home and not talk to her for four or five days because I knew it would piss her off. And I knew if I could piss her off, like, it just felt so good. And if I wanted to make her happy, I'd go buy her some flowers, tell her she's pretty and she's happy, and I'm controlling everything in this. In this house. And so that domestically violent relationship that people find themselves in, well, I found myself in that. And I was the abuser, you know, the gaslighting. I was the guy. Yeah. I was the person doing all the things that had been done to me. Fortunately enough for my situation and circumstance, I was able to finally hold myself accountable and fix the damn problem. And the hardest part of that was coming home and tell my wife I loved her and texting her and telling her I love her every day. You know, those are things I didn't want to do, so I had to do those things even more.

[Interviewer]

And that was the change.

[Seth Gale]

That was the change.

[Interviewer]

Starting to let her in or see, it's just what she was.

[Seth Gale]

It's changing from resentment to gratitude. Right. I had to change my mindset into thinking, you know what? My wife is so comfortable with me and loves me so much that she's willing to let me see these ugly parts of her that she doesn't clean the house sometimes, and that she's not perfect and that sometimes the dishes aren't done and sometimes she doesn't put away the clothes. And sometimes, you know, she was so. She loves me so much, she's willing to let me see this deeply vulnerable side of her. Right. That she would not let anybody else see. She didn't let anybody else go into her closet. Right. Or look into where she didn't let anybody else go in the house and there's dirty dishes when I come home. There is. But if a guest comes home, there's not. Why? Because she has a higher level of respect and appreciation for me that she doesn't care. She knows that these things don't matter.

[Interviewer]

But I think that's a key point too, is that you were abused and it sounds like you abused her emotionally at least.

[Seth Gale]

Right.

[Interviewer]

And then somehow turned again to being okay and doing it right. Like, so there is a, there is a way to fix the relationship when there's that level of manipulation and gaslighting and well, it takes a lot of self hatred.

[Seth Gale]

It takes, it takes a lot of empathy, gratitude. It takes a lot of forgiveness. When I see people that are married for a long time, the secret is forgiveness. It's just those people have forgiven each other many, many times over the years. My wife has forgiven me. I mean, I literally told her, you know, I don't want to do this anymore. And she just refused to leave. And she's forgiven me for all the things. And so I have also to her, you know. But it's. It's a combination of a lot of things. Part of that at the end of the day is being disciplined in your. And your ability to take responsibility for things, you know.

[Interviewer]

And can you tell us a little bit about where to find the book, where to find you future plans?

[Seth Gale]

Yeah. So the book is on Amazon. That's really the easiest place to find it. Strength beyond the Shadows. It'll pop up. So yeah, go in there, buy it.

[Interviewer]

And it's a black book with a little adorable baby face on it.

[Seth Gale]

Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. If you search in Amazon, if you look that up or my name, you'll. It'll pop up. It should be the first suggestion. You can also buy it through my website, which is sethgale.com My last name is G-E-H l e.com and then I'm on Instagram is like really the biggest thing if you want to find me. It's just Seth underscore Gail. You know, from this point forward, it's me kind of traveling, speaking, sharing my story, helping other people overcome adversity trauma, you know, things like that. Just building resiliency. That's kind of where I think I'm headed. I think we talked about this prior, but I think so many people hear sexual abuse in my story and they think that, like, it doesn't apply, you know, like the story doesn't apply to me and reality, my story is Just about being resilient. It's not about child abuse. It's not about whatever. It's about being resilient and overcoming adversity. Everybody's going to have it at some point in their life. Every single person will face adversity or trauma. And if you're not prepared for it, it's going to kick your ass when it comes. And. And that's what I'm trying to do, is help people prepare and understand it.

[Interviewer]

I love it.

[Seth Gale]

Thank you.

[Interviewer]

I love it. Okay. Thank you for being here. Thank you for coming to Los Angeles and eating Thai food with me.

[Seth Gale]

Thank you for ordering, like, four entrees for me. That's the first time anybody's ever done that. That was awesome.

[Interviewer]

Well, and I'm on Ozempic, so I knew you were going to eat it all.

[Seth Gale]

Yeah, I did. It was good. I'm like, mega bloated. But it's okay. There's a lot of sodium.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, probably msg. Thank you for listening and taking the time to get to know Seth. This was a really serious topic, one that's very close to my heart and one I openly advocate for, that we need to speak out, that we need to say their names. We need to call out predators. And by doing that, we become stronger together and we stop the harm that's happening. There is no shame in this. There is only power and resilience. Talk to you next time. Unintentionally disturbing. Oh, hey, you're here.

[Seth Gale]

Hey, everybody. This is Matt Rogers and Dawon Yang, and you're never gonna guess who's our guest on Las Culturistas.

[Interviewer]

It is Elle Woods.

[Seth Gale]

Tracy Flick herself, Reese Witherspoon.

[Interviewer]

Reese, we must go on a girls trip.

[Seth Gale]

I have to have a tequila.

[Interviewer]

We must. Whoever said orange is the new pink? Seriously disturbed.

[Seth Gale]

Listen to Las culturistas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Interviewer]

Liz went from being interested in true crime to living true crime. My husband said, your dad's been killed. This is Hands Tied, a true crime podcast exploring the murder of Jim Melgar. I was just completely in shock. Liz's father murdered and her mother found locked in a closet, her hands and feet bound. I didn't feel real at all. More than a decade on, she's still searching for answers. We're still fighting. Listen to Hands tied on the iHeartRadio app, Apple plus podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It was an unimaginable crime. It's four consecutive live terms for Brian Coburger, who killed the four University of Idaho students. Nearly 30 months of silence until Bombshell development Brian Coburger has agreed to plead guilty. No trial, no testimony.

[Seth Gale]

The defense are on a sinking ship. This isn't the justice you wanted, but this is justice.

[Interviewer]

Listen to season three of the Idaho Massacre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Seth Gale]

Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Interviewer]

I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant for my heart. Podcasts and Rococo Punch this is the Turning River Road in the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. But in 2014, the youngest escaped. Listen to the Turning river road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi everyone, It's Nicole Angemi, P.A. and curator of ISSsanjemi on Instagram, where I have been teaching about pathology and death for over 10 years, and I'm her daughter Maria Q. Kain, and we host the podcast Mother Knows Death. Each week we dive into the darker side of life, exploring topics such as what can go wrong with the human body, true crime, medical mysteries, freak accidents, and more. New episodes of our show drop twice a week. Make sure to tune in to Mother Knows Death on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.