B (1:46)

Crime to living true crime.

A (1:49)

My husband said your dad's been killed.

B (1:52)

This is Hands Tied, a true crime podcast exploring the murder of Jim Melgar.

A (1:59)

I was just completely in shock.

B (2:01)

Liz's father murdered and her mother found.

A (2:03)

Locked in a closet, her hands and feet bound. It didn't feel real at all.

B (2:08)

More than a decade on, she's still searching for answers.

A (2:12)

We're still fighting.

B (2:14)

Listen to Hands tied on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

A (2:32)

Oh hey, you're here. Welcome back to Intentionally Disturbing. This week I'm having a chat with Sarah Adams, known online as Mom Uncharted. Sarah was recently named on Time 100's creators list for 2025 and she talks about the dangers of putting images and over sharing your children online. As someone who has worked on very disturbing child sexual abuse cases, I can tell you that There are very real dangers to putting your children online. One thing I love about Sarah is her unwavering eye on this issue. She's dedicated and has sole focus on exposing bad behavior by parents who exploit their children online and digital exploitation in general. I hope you enjoy this conversation and it makes you think twice about sharing your children online with strangers because you don't know who is looking. Welcome back to intentionally disturbing. I'm Dr. Leslie, and today I get the honor of speaking with Sarah Adams, Mom Uncharted. Now I need to know, what is this name about? Where did it come from?

B (3:49)

Yeah, that's fair. Honestly, when I started my social media journey, I didn't really know what I intended to talk about. I knew these were interesting to me, but I'd never really put myself out there on social media. And I felt like a little uncharted and what I was doing and where I was going and where I'd take this platform if I was capable enough to build one. So I just thought that it was kind of really encompassing. Right. I'm a mom and I don't know what I'm doing.

A (4:16)

You're a mom and now everyone knows you are a Canadian mom.

B (4:21)

Yes, I am a Canadian mom.

A (4:23)

I am too. But I have been here for long enough where now I just say mother or mom. It's turned very American.

B (4:32)

Yeah, when I started, everyone was commenting on my little accent. But little, little note, my mom is actually from Minnesota, so I spent many summers. Half my family is American. I'm kind of a 50, 50, but born and raised here.

A (4:53)

The fact that you even questioned how you were going to do Uncharted and now you're on the Times 100 creator list. I mean, when I saw that, I was like, I know her.

B (5:05)

I know. That was really surprising. And, like, I just feel really honored. Like, time is time. Like, that's legacy media. And to be acknowledged, especially when you're discussing issues that are regularly suppressed, like, I don't get a lot of traction on these platforms, my following does not grow. I have been stagnant for years. And so to have time honor me in this way and say, hey, what you're doing matters, it really, you know, lit a little more fire within me because I'm sure you can relate. It can be a little discouraging sometimes when you're providing informative and educational material that you want parents to see because you're just trying to make their lives better in this digital world and they can't see you and they can't find you and the platforms don't want you to be heard.

A (6:02)

Definitely. I mean, I know in America everyone's wondering what's going to happen with TikTok.

B (6:07)

Yeah.

A (6:07)

But the fact that, you know, Canada does censor a lot of stuff and people aren't really aware of that. I mean, around the world aren't aware.

B (6:16)

No, I don't think so. I can't recall the exact bill name at this moment. It escapes me. But I can't read American news on meta platforms. So, like, if I wanted to share an article from, you know, the Washington Post, the New York Times, probably Time magazine, I can't do it because I can't have access to that Instagram post to share on my feed. So there is definitely censorship up here as well.

A (6:44)

It's amazing. I've published articles and what I end up doing is downloading the PDF and I just DM the PDF to people in Canada.

B (6:52)

Yeah. I use when I want to share like a link because it won't let me share links from new sites on meta platforms. I have to go and like tiny ulr it and then share it there. And it's very frustrating and it's very discouraging.

A (7:07)

I don't, I don't fully understand it, but I love that you, I love that you are fighting against it in so many ways. And even if, even if you aren't growing, your message is clear.

B (7:20)

Yes.

A (7:21)

Get kids the fuck off the Internet. Stop monetizing off children.

B (7:25)

Yeah. It's just reached a point where, honestly, I think we're starting to see a shift. You know, there's been a lot of documentaries coming out. More of these conversations are happening. More people are pulling their kids offline. You go to Family vlog, we have.

A (7:39)

To do a plug for you. What was the documentary you were just in?

B (7:42)

Oh, yeah, I was in Bad Influence, the Dark side of Kid Fluencing on Netflix, as well as Born to Be Viral, which is streaming on Hulu and Disney. I have some cameos and commentary in those, which is great.

A (7:57)

A must watch.

B (7:58)

Yes, definitely. Hard watch, but must watch.

A (8:03)

I know it is. It's not. I would watch it maybe at like 4 o' clock in the afternoon, maybe not right before bed.

B (8:09)

Well, and I think we're a little like, you know. Well, especially you, Leslie. We're a little desensitized. Right. We were in this world. So we see and we hear so much. So then when you're telling other, you know, parents and people like that, you're like, oh. And then they start watching and they're like, oh, my gosh. Like, I can't stomach this. I can't get through this. It's too much, like, how do you do it? Right? And I think we do it because it's important, you know, like, we. We want to spread awareness for so many different reasons.

A (8:41)

It is so important. How did you get into it? How did this become. Because, you know, my account is. My accounts are a little schizophrenic. I'm all over the place. Like, I went at Ren. That Ren account like crazy, and then I got distracted. But you're really good at staying focused on your mission.

B (9:01)

I've really niched myself down. I generally don't go outside of that. Are there more things? After four years of talking about these things I would like to talk about? Yes. I do plan on incorporating a few more conversations, but they all kind of work into what I'm already talking about. Right. I'd like to talk about the materialism and the consumerism of these family vlogging and these influencers and stuff more. But how I initially got into it was when I first had a child in late 2017. We were all online. I followed, like, some mommy influencers. I didn't see a problem with it. I thought I was a new mom. I could learn some tips, tricks, see some cute outfits and whatnot. But life moves on. I have a pandemic baby. We all go online more, and the more we're all there, the more I start to feel uncomfortable with what everyone is sharing, from friends and family to these mom influencers. And I just started talking to people around me, and they're like, oh, yeah, you know, it is weird. It's a little uncomfortable. And then there was a mom I followed for a long time, and her son had a medical emergency. And everything was documented, the whole thing. And it was like a light bulb went off. Leslie. And I just thought, I shouldn't know this. I shouldn't see this. I'm just a mom up in Canada. Why do I have such intimate details of this child's medical journey? Pictures, information, doctors names, like, appointments. I just felt so uncomfortable. And I think that really lit something in me that, like, other people out there have to feel this way, too. So maybe if I just talk about it, I'll find a community that agrees. And maybe I'm not as, you know, out there as social media is making me feel 100%.

A (10:52)

And you have the community.

B (10:54)

Yeah.

A (10:54)

And it's. Yeah, it's so true. I mean, people. People are interested in children's lives, but when it takes that turn towards the parents monetizing off of it and then the parents over sexualizing the children, people are uncomfortable and maybe they won't follow it, but there's no voice saying, hey, stop it.

B (11:19)

Yes, hey, stop it. Because like the big tech isn't saying anything because they're making money off this. Right. It's a lot of their content and it's a lot of content that trends and gets engagement a lot for all the wrong reasons. And when I first started talking, I was mainly coming from like a privacy and consent standpoint. I know like predators exist on the Internet. One of the reasons I wasn't gonna share my kids. But it wasn't like I didn't know the magnitude of the problem until I found some of these other communities. That was truly shocking. You know, especially the Instagram moms who were exploiting their young girls. Like that led me down a pat I was not prepared for. I think that led me to meeting you online because. Right. And that was around the time that.

A (12:12)

That New York Times article came out or the Wall Street Journal did one too. And basically how like these moms were selling the used tights of their little girls to followers. Yeah, I mean, the disgustingness. But yeah, those. When those articles came out, I think a lot of eyes opened.

B (12:34)

It was really nice. And I had the pleasure of talking to those journalists for many months and providing information and what I had seen and things like that. So to see it finally get mainstream attention was really rewarding. Right. It wasn't my article, but I do think that I was one of the first voices on the topic. I think there have been some changes made, but you know, if you start digging, you'll still find a ton of moms doing this stuff.

A (13:07)

Yeah, well, I mean, at least we got that run account down.

B (13:13)

Yeah, that was a huge account that I think at the height it had like 17 million followers. And like no toddler should have 17 million strangers following them online, period. End of story. I think it is crazy that parents are allowing strangers into the lives of their children. And we also don't know the long term repercussions of this down the line for their mental health and their well being. And with the advancements in AI, I'm sure you think about it often, because I do. Like I think about these young girls who are being exploited by their parents and now there's the technology to turn these images into worse things. So what, they get online when they're 13 and some stranger online has a whole bunch of edited and Deep faked images and videos of them and what threatens them? Like sextorts them.

A (14:15)

Oh, yes.

B (14:17)

I think that parents need to think really long and hard and long term. Too many parents are posting things like in an instant versus thinking about long term repercussions.

A (14:29)

Yeah. The Ren account. So she. So the mom, Jacqueline was posting at her gorgeous daughter. Beautiful child. From age. I want to say birth. Like it was young probably.

B (14:42)

It was very.

A (14:43)

And it went on for years. She was. I'm not sure how old she was when it concluded, but every post was the little girl with something that was a phallic image. And it was the little girl alone.

B (14:57)

It was usually her alone.

A (14:58)

Yeah, yeah. And so images were like eating a corn dog, trying. Some of the videos were pretending to put a tampon up to her vagina.

B (15:10)

Yeah, that one really bothered me.

A (15:12)

Yeah. Showing her underwear images of the. Like those testing where you're testing drinks and you're sucking on straws. So everything related to male oral sex and sex in general, even intercourse, was in these posts. And those were the ones that were getting millions and millions of views. They were saved millions of times. And when you go look at the comments and then you look at the accounts, they were of men who only follow little girls.

B (15:42)

Yeah. There's a lot of accounts like that online.

A (15:45)

Yeah. So I say if anyone's interested, there are articles about this or go to other people's platforms to have them explain it. Don't go directly to the platforms we talk about on the show.

B (15:58)

Yeah, yeah. And I think that platform is privated. I don't think there's any content. But here is the thing with nothing is ever truly gone from the Internet. Even though the mother, I don't think deleted it. I think privated the account, whatever. All of those videos and all those commentary videos and they're all still circulating. There are people stealing those videos, making Facebook pages like it's still out there. Right. And nothing is truly gone from the Internet. So as much as the original videos are gone, they're all still everywhere, which is really hard. Heartbreaking.

A (16:38)

It is heartbreaking. Yeah. I think CPS was involved with that case. But in so many cases it is interesting that what we call what Internet sleuths, I don't know what we call them, but people are actually calling the police on the appearance of these accounts.

B (16:52)

There are so many, like YouTube family vlogger people that like have clickbait videos like CPS was called on us. There are many examples of TikTok families, CPS being called on them. Also, I will say some for like, very, I think, not appropriate reasons in the sense some people follow moms online and just hate them. Right. They're not necessarily as bad as other people or doing some really horrific pranks and really exploitative, you know, child abusive type behavior. But there are people who put their children online in, quote, unquote, innocent ways and. And people still hate them and still call CPS on them. Right. And I think that's something that you need to be mindful of as well. Like when you put your child and your family online, a lot of things can happen.

A (17:48)

Yes. It's. It is so vulnerable. You are so vulnerable.

B (17:53)

Yes. And they're already so vulnerable. Right. They're just kids and they didn't ask for this information. And parents are curating digital footprints for their kids that are going to follow them for the rest of their life. Like, as you said in regard to Wren, all those articles, all those videos, all that commentary that will forever be part of her digital footprint. And that's, I think, going to be really hard for a young girl to rectify.

A (18:21)

Yes, 100%. Because you have spent so much time in this area, I'm really curious what stands out to you as one of the most disturbing accounts or moments that you've had in this realm?

B (18:37)

Oh, my gosh. It's so difficult to pick because there's been like a lot of what I would deem abusive material shared by parents online. But I think in regard to the little girls being exploited, like, I've had to make police reports before. There were accounts that were exploiting their young girls on the meta platform platforms offering like subscription. And then what happens is the followers of these accounts, these people start having relationships with the parent who is exploiting the child. Right. They talk about it in DMS and stuff like that. And then they ask, hey, let's go to an encrypted site like Telegram, right? And then on Telegram, they start pushing for more content. And I was sent an email with very inappropriate content of one of these girls. And I had to call local authorities, actually separate girls. I think I made three police reports in regard to different cases because they will go on encrypted sites and further ask for more pictures. And sometimes the parents oblige. And I would say that's the hardest, the hardest stuff I've seen.

A (19:55)

Now I don't want to be. I don't want to. This isn't for clickbait, but I want to explain to the audience what pictures are like. I, in legal cases am constantly Reviewing evidence. So I'm looking at these children and I'm just going to be really graphic. So trigger warning. But I'm looking at little girls who have their vaginas ripped all the way to their anuses. Their bodies are torn apart because of the size of the male penis, but also because objects have been used on them and they're. And I'm often looking at pictures where they're not alive.

B (20:37)

Oh, Leslie.

A (20:39)

So this is. And I don't want to make you say it all, but this is the same stuff that you're.

B (20:44)

Well, I am.

A (20:46)

You're stopping this.

B (20:47)

I am hoping to stop that before it gets to that point. I have not seen that type of imagery, fortunately for me. But the images I have seen are generally young girls in very limited clothing. Bralettes, underwear, bathing suit, leotards, dancewear, posed exceptionally provocatively. One of the reports I made was of a little girl in like, kind of like a rainbow bright costume on a bed in extremely provocative poses with lollipops. Like someone was paying for these images. Right. It was like a sexualized photo shoot of an 11 year old girl. And you just think, if a parent's willing to do that, what else are they willing to do? Right. And I do know there is a situation in Texas where a mom and a photographer were charged with taking these types of photos and she's in jail and she was one of these like moms in this mom circuit.

A (22:01)

Good, right? Yeah, yeah, it's. It's horrific. And I think where you and I link together is that if it's on the Internet, people lose. Men are gratifying themselves with these images and they lose stimulation when it's just an image and then they want a real child. Yeah, it's directly connected.

B (22:29)

Yeah, it's horrific to think about. It's just horrific to think about. I have been sent screenshots of chats on encrypted sites where they talk about kid fluencers and these young girls in graphic detail and what they would do so to them. Also with like AI generated imagery attack. I have seen someone sent me fan fiction, which is a really big thing in the world, fan fiction. And often it doesn't take this turn. But some of this fan fiction was written about kid fluencers from family vloggers and it got extremely graphic. And these are all different things that are happening right now. They take these images from social media and they take them to other places and they often alter them and if they don't alter them, they just talk about them. In really graphic detail about what they would do if they had their hands on this child. And it's so dark and it's so warped and, like, in comparison to you, I'm kind of like, on the surface level. Right. So with your knowledge and expertise, like, it gets worse, parents, it gets a lot worse.

A (23:52)

And if it's not happening to your kid, you may be encouraging it, a man to do it to another kid. And that's where I think we have to reflect on that narcissism that, you know, I have the ability to keep my child safe. Other people may not. And by putting it out there, you're also encouraging this community. We're gonna take a quick break, and we'll be right back. It lends well into the post you put up yesterday on the manosphere.

B (24:24)

Oh, yes, the manosphere, which I'm continuing to learn about. I think a lot of people think that we know everything in all the areas online. You can't possibly know. It's too vast. But the manosphere, where they are promoting very misogynistic ideals, and sometimes they put it as, like, dating or fitness, but the underlying message of this are, like, women are insubordinate to men and great gender inequality. And a lot of people are listening to this stuff, and a lot of young boys are listening to this stuff. And it often isn't as noticeable to parents because sometimes they come off as, like, live streamers or prank channels or podcasts and things like that. But it's something for parents to be mindful of because there's a lot of messaging in the manosphere that you don't want your children to adhere to and agree with and move forward in life thinking like, this is normal.

A (25:40)

I found the television show Adolescence.

B (25:44)

Yes.

A (25:46)

I found it incredible. And I know it was fiction. Right. But around the exact same time, a case played out in the UK exactly the same way in real life. So to explain adolescence is this. It is these young boys who are vulnerable, and they are looking for. They are looking for role models, and they are very enticed by these misogynistic role models like the Tate brothers, who are saying, you know, women are worthless or they are lower than us. We need to use sex, power, money to control women, and we need to basically brutalize them. But it's getting so convoluted in an adolescent's head that the show details basically them killing a little girl.

B (26:39)

Yep. And again, to your point, like, it's fiction, but is. Is this seeping into young boys in society? Yes, it definitely is. It's taking that miniseries, took from what is happening and magnified it and turned it into a really eye miniseries that a lot of parents weren't familiar with. I think this really opened a lot of eyes. It was the first time kind of, you know, mainstream show touched on the subject. And I think the young man, the young boy, because I think he's 12 or 13, I think he was recently nominated for an Emmy because his acting was just outstanding.

A (27:22)

The moment he acted out his anger and aggression towards the psychologist. Yes, it gave me chills because he wanted so much validation from her that she did not give. And immediately he turned to violence and anger and just unrelenting emotions.

B (27:43)

Yeah.

A (27:44)

And it shows you how much we need to offer adolescents, how much we need to parent them and be there and protect them from all this fucking shit on the Internet and these people with these platforms that are not good people.

B (27:59)

Yeah. And I think one of the lines that really set with a lot of parents is when the parents said, you know, I thought he was safe, he was at home, he was in his room. Like I thought he was safe. Right. But they were unaware of what he was consuming. And I think it's a note to parents that we need to be involved, we need to be having these conversations, we need to be asking questions, you know, oh, have you heard of this live streamer or did you see this situation or what podcasts are you listening to lately? I think a lot of parents, you know, we are on our screens a lot and I think sometimes we're giving kids screens so we can do our emails and do the things we need to do. But we need to make sure that we understand what they're doing on their screens and what they're consuming on their screens. Because just cause they're at home doesn't mean they're safe anymore.

A (28:59)

I can you. Oh my gosh. I think it happened yesterday. My daughter is 8 and is way too smart for an 8 year old. And I keep setting all these securities on her iPad and I let her have her iPad for just a little bit of time. Like maybe we're at a fancy dinner or something like that. Her iPad has she again downloaded YouTube Kids. And so she's like working around these regulations. I'm constantly like stopping and editing. It is set to four years or younger, four year olds. I walk in and we're like getting ready for dinner. We're in the bathroom and I can hear this voice of daddy, do you like this outfit? And I thought, what the fuck is on your iPad? Right now. So I go over, it's set for four year olds and the title of the show is Little girl trying on outfits for her daddy.

B (29:54)

YouTube Kids. Because it's labeled YouTube Kids, parents think it is safe. And as you just articulated, it is not safe. I hear story after story from parents saying that they thought their kid was watching Bluey and then next thing they know there's like cartoons about, like undressing or things like that. And another thing parents have to worry about is the scrolling. These shorts, these attention span, right? Kids aren't sitting and watching a full seven minute YouTube anymore. Their attention spans are getting so short that they're scrolling and scrolling and we're not helping them, we're not helping them and their brain develop when we're allowing that type of content. So I tell every parent like, no, YouTube kids, shut it down. And if your child wants to watch YouTube, put it on the big TV and sit there with them, right? Sit there with them and treat it like a TV show. Because I don't think all YouTube is bad. There's some great educational channels on there about adults teaching science and that geographic and things like that. But I think there's something to be said for kids keeping most of their media on a big screen versus iPads. I'm not anti iPad. My kids have them, but you just gotta be really mindful of how you use them. Because I don't know about your daughter, but my children, they like, I can see it in their eyes, you know, I'm like, okay, five minutes done. And they're pretty good with giving it up. But then they want it, they want it, they're talking about it. When can I have it again, what I'm gonna do? I'm putting them to bed and they're like, well, tomorrow I'm gonna play this. And I'm like, no, you're not. Right, so not all kids are like that, but mine are.

A (31:45)

It changes. I notice like when we have weeks without iPad versus a little iPad, their behavior and their defiance completely changes. And I think it directly plays into completely agree, that kind of impulsivity and the speed.

B (32:00)

I just completely agree. Like my children, if they're having too much iPad time, their emotional regulation is not present anymore and we go weeks and weeks without it. But you know, currently it's the summer and like mommy needs a little help sometimes. So yeah, get on your duolingo. They've been doing duolingo.

A (32:22)

What are your recommendations for age appropriateness, for Internet and just everything we've talked about, how do you gauge what to do?

B (32:32)

You know what? I don't think there is necessarily like a blanket approach because all kids are different and all families are different. I am big in delaying smartphones and delaying social media. I think delay a smartphone as long as you can. I think there's some great, like, smart watches out there. I think delaying social media is really big for myself and you. With children, you know, under the age of eight, I think we can all rally together to normalize. Not having social media until you're 15 or 16, I don't think that is some crazy expectation. Right. You know, you start to drive a car, you start to, you know, get social media. But that doesn't mean that we can negate teaching them digital literacy and media literacy. Like, we need to see these things in school, especially with the rise in AI and misinformation. They need to learn how to see what is real and what is not. Right. It's already. I don't know if you saw this trending on TikTok, the bunnies jumping on the trampoline the other day.

A (33:41)

No.

B (33:42)

Okay, so there was a viral video of bunnies jumping on a trampoline. And a lot of people thought it was real. Like, a lot of adults thought it was real and it wasn't. Right. Like, if we are falling for this and we aren't looking at videos anymore and really taking note, think about what our kids, they don't have a chance. Right? So we need to get digital and media literacy in schools. And I do think we need to be mindful of the amount of time we are letting our children on devices because I do think it is affecting their attention span and there are different ways to play games. I grew up playing, like Nintendo 64, but we were in one person's living room playing together on a big screen. Right now the kids and school, they go home to their own little desks and they get online and play together. Right? So I think it's just being a lot more mindful and saying, like, you know what? This isn't age appropriate right now. And I am a parent and I have house rules. And I've done a lot of research on brain development and it's just not good for your brain right now. And therefore, we can have this conversation later down the line. Hold your boundaries. You're the parent.

A (35:02)

I think that's amazing advice. Hold your boundaries. Because, God, they are going to push back. And especially related to what their friends.

B (35:10)

Are allowed to do, 100%. You know, there's a game my child has been asking for, for like three years. And I just hold my boundaries and I just say, you know, you're too young right now for all these different reasons. But if you're interested, we can read the book, we can get the T shirts, we can get the toys. And so when you're ready for that game, you'll already know so much about it and you'll be ahead of the curve. But right now you're not ready. And that approach has worked out really well. It's like when people. I get a lot of questions about parents whose kids want to start YouTube channels. That's probably one of the biggest questions I have. You know, my 8 year old wants to start a YouTube and I just say, you know, you don't have to crush their dreams and say know forever. But you say, hey, it's not appropriate right now. But if you're interested in videography, photography, story writing, acting, we can do aftercare camps, we can put you in programs, we can do an online course. So when you're ready for that, you'll. You'll be ahead of the curve. So there's other ways to approach things without just saying no. You have to give them more reasons so they better understand why it's a no.

A (36:24)

I completely agree. My daughter loves art and she loves the videos where they show you there's no real person in it, it's just a hand, but they show you how to draw step by step. And she wants to make videos like that to teach other kids how to draw. And to her, she doesn't understand the difference between having a YouTube channel and me sending this video of her drawing to her best friend's mom.

B (36:52)

Yeah.

A (36:52)

And she is just as happy with just one kid, her bestie, seeing her doing a drawing video.

B (36:59)

That's another. That's another thing. Do it privately, have it private, and send it to grandma and grandpa and a small group of people. And you know, that's how I always suggest parents share online. Go private. Right. You know, there's no need to be sharing all of these photos and videos of your family publicly with, you know, billions of people online knowing what we know about the Internet, Right?

A (37:25)

Yeah, exactly. And it's time for a break. I have some lightning round questions for you.

B (37:35)

Oh, dear. Gosh. Okay, get ready. Okay.

A (37:39)

These are my favorite because everyone answers them so different.

B (37:43)

Oh my gosh, I'm nervous. Okay, go.

A (37:46)

Okay. If you could commit a crime and get away with it, what would you do?

B (37:53)

If I could get a. Commit a crime and get away with it, Money laundering.

A (37:58)

It's expensive.

B (37:59)

It's expensive. Life's expensive these days. I need some money.

A (38:05)

I could help you. Okay, I'll launder too.

B (38:08)

Hey, a little white collar crime. No big deal.

A (38:12)

Exactly. And the white collar prisons are much nicer as well.

B (38:15)

I figured. Right. Little Martha Stewart out there.

A (38:18)

Yeah, it's like a camp. I wouldn't even. Yeah, like a camp.

B (38:21)

Yeah, exactly.

A (38:25)

Okay, if you had to die by death penalty, how would you want to go? Now, our options in America are more brutal than yours, but we have.

B (38:35)

I was gonna say we don't have.

A (38:36)

Objection.

B (38:37)

Firings. You guys still have firing squad?

A (38:41)

Oh, we just restarted it in some states. That's why I was really hoping Brian Kohberger would get it.

B (38:49)

Firing squad. Wow, that's. That's. I know. The injection. I thought that was the only one.

A (38:58)

Electrocution.

B (38:59)

Electrocution. We don't have those options in the great white North.

A (39:07)

The comparison of the Canada to America.

B (39:09)

Right now, honestly, I think our life in prison. I think our life in prison is actually 25 years. Oh, my gosh. I will have to. Don't quote me on that. But maybe something to look into. 25 years. Unless you're, like, a dangerous offender and then you, like, stay in. But I think that is technically still what life is here. That doesn't mean we have a bunch of, like, people doing 25 years and then released. If you're categorized a dangerous offender, you stay in.

A (39:37)

But.

B (39:37)

Okay, so I guess I'm not doing a firing squad and electric. I guess inject me. That's my option. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, sure.

A (39:50)

For the most part, it's been successful.

B (39:52)

Well, yeah, and I think, you know, like, we have a medical assisted in death up here, and so that's. I wouldn't say the same, but like, an injection.

A (40:04)

So, yeah, you get a little maid done on you.

B (40:07)

Yeah, there we go. There. That's the one. I can say I've been on a lot of podcasts, and I've never had a lightning round like this. Leslie, we have to.

A (40:21)

We have to bring humor to the darkness.

B (40:24)

I know, right? It's nice to end on a light note.

A (40:29)

Okay. If you could change a law, what would it be and why?

B (40:35)

Oh, my gosh. If I could change a law, what would it be and why? I think I would. I think I would have child sex offenders stay in prison for longer terms. I think it's pretty wild how many get released early. And I think the reoffending rate is also really high. You can let me know if that's true. But I would have people who hurt children. Children stay the length of their sentence or extend the sentence. Yeah. Have harder punishments for them, for sure.

A (41:11)

It's a. It's a weird thing in America because it's really different in every state. But in California, if you're a violent sex offender, you are categorized. You can be categorized under. As a patient. So not an inmate. And then you're civilly committed to a hospital. And it's usually the rest of their entire lives.

B (41:32)

Oh, okay. Okay. Well, that's good. Yes.

A (41:35)

But it's not every state.

B (41:37)

Yeah.

A (41:38)

Stay in there. It's called Coalinga State Hospital in California. Anyone can look that up. And it is horrifying. It's a pretty high bar to get there. But it is full.

B (41:47)

Yeah, sadly it is full. Yeah, I think so. If you gave me more time to think on it, I'd probably think of something else.

A (42:00)

We could change the law that you. Either California becomes Canadian or Canada becomes the 51st state.

B (42:07)

Absolutely not, girl. Nuh, nuh. But California can come up here. We'll take you.

A (42:16)

Yeah, I would choose that one.

B (42:18)

Yeah. Where are you originally from in Canada?

A (42:21)

Okay. And our final. Oh, Toronto.

B (42:24)

Oh, okay. I was. I was also an Ontario girl.

A (42:28)

Yeah, I. My middle name is Victoria because that's where I would go do my tennis camps.

B (42:35)

Oh, very cool. Victoria's a beautiful city.

A (42:38)

Yeah, I love Vancouver. And Victoria is one of the most beautiful places.

B (42:44)

Honestly, truly, it's the best. I love the west coast.

A (42:49)

Okay, final question.

B (42:51)

Okay, hit me.

A (42:52)

So the last question we have is, can you tell me a secret?

B (42:57)

A secret is that I probably have really, like one of the worst sweet tooths in the world. I have no chill when it comes to ice cream and donuts specifically. And I can easily down a pint of ice cream and sitting on my couch watching a terrible Netflix reality show. Easy.

A (43:17)

I love it.

B (43:18)

And I don't even feel shame. And I don't even feel shame after it. I feel impressed with myself.

A (43:25)

Okay, so we're just gonna hope for no diabetes.

B (43:27)

Yes, I know. I know, Leslie. I know. It's only like. It's not every day. That'd be crazy.

A (43:36)

Well, I wanna thank you for coming on. Intentionally disturbing. And you know, where can we send people to follow you?

B (43:45)

Yeah. So I'm on all socials, mainly YouTube, TikTok and Instagram under Mum Uncharted. So find and follow me there. As mentioned, I was recently on two documentaries. One bad influence on Netflix and the other is born to be viral on Hulu and Disney. And in the fall, I plan on launching my own podcast because I need a different outlet to which I have more conversations. So let's try something new. And we're going to talk about more things. Parents Uncharted, and all the things that we don't really have a guidebook for as we navigate these, like, kind of terrifying times.

A (44:25)

Perfect. I will happily be a guest.

B (44:27)

Oh, you will definitely, definitely be a guest. Right? And there's a lot to talk about.

A (44:32)

Yeah, we covered a lot today. I'm really grateful and I'm really happy people will listen to this and learn.

B (44:37)

I hope so, too. Thanks so much for having me.

A (44:42)

I'm sorry. It's time for a commercial. Thank you for listening to another episode of Intentionally Disturbing and with Sarah Adams Mom, Uncharted. And as I always say, get your kids off the Internet. Intentionally Disturbing is a podcast from me, Dr. Leslie. It's distributed by iHeartMedia. Liam Billingham is the senior producer and he also edits the show and puts up with my Katie Cobbs does the social media and she attempts to keep me in my lane. Not always successful. The executive producers are Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media, who have told me not to text them 24 7.

B (45:33)

But you know what?

A (45:35)

I'm still the boss. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next week for more Intentionally Disturbing.

B (45:43)

I just normally do straight stand up, but this is a bit different.

A (45:46)

What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club?

B (45:51)

A new podcast called Wisecrack, where a.

A (45:54)

Comedian finds himself at the center of.

B (45:56)

A chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see?

A (46:01)

It's a story.

B (46:02)

It's about the scariest night of my life.

A (46:04)

This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the 1980s, modeling wasn't just a.

B (46:16)

Dream, it was a battlefield. It's a freaking war zone.

A (46:19)

These people are animals. The Model wars podcast peels back the glossy cover and reveals a high st.

B (46:26)

Game where survival meant more than beauty.

A (46:28)

Hosted by me, Vanessa Grigoriadis, this is the untold story of an industry built on ruthless ambition.

B (46:36)

Listen to Model wars on the iHeartRadio.

A (46:39)

App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Liz went from being interested in true.

B (46:47)

Crime to living true crime.

A (46:50)

My husband said your dad was Dad's been killed.

B (46:53)

This is Hands Tied, a true crime podcast exploring the murder of Jim Melgar.

A (46:59)

I was just completely in shock Liz's.

B (47:02)

Father murdered and her mother found locked.

A (47:05)

In a closet, her hands and feet bound. I didn't feel real at all.

B (47:09)

More than a decade on, she's still searching for answers.

A (47:13)

We're still fighting.

B (47:15)

Listen to Hands tied on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A (47:24)

It was an unimaginable crime.

B (47:27)

It's four consecutive live terms for Bryan Kohberger, who killed the four University of Idaho students.

A (47:34)

Nearly 30 months of silence until bombshell development.

B (47:40)

Bryan Kohberger has agreed to plead guilty. No trial, no testimony. The defense are on a sinking ship. This isn't the justice you wanted, but this is justice.

A (47:53)

Listen to season three of the Idaho Massacre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.