Antichrists, Chainsaws and Natalism: A Very MoO Halloween Episode

Summary

Matter of Opinion Podcast Summary Episode: Antichrists, Chainsaws and Natalism: A Very MoO Halloween Episode
Release Date: October 16, 2024
Hosts: Michelle Cottle, Ross Douthat, Carlos Lozada

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Introduction to the Inaugural Bonus Episode

In this special Halloween-themed bonus episode of Matter of Opinion, hosts Michelle Cottle, Ross Douthat, and Carlos Lozada delve into all things spooky, from classic horror films to personal Halloween traditions. This inaugural edition offers listeners a chance to explore the hosts' favorite scary movies, childhood scares, and the broader cultural impact of horror in media.

Halloween Traditions and Plans

Michelle kicks off the conversation by sharing her enthusiasm for Halloween, highlighting her dedication to decorations, costume planning, and horror movies throughout October. (00:57) She mentions hosting a Titanic-themed murder mystery, although she will be out of town for most of the festivities this year.

Ross humorously describes his Halloween persona as "a harried father of five distributing candy on the porch," reflecting his apprehension towards the chaotic trick-or-treating season in New Haven. (01:32)

Carlos reveals his costume choice for the year: Grunkle Stan from the animated series Gravity Falls. (02:28) This choice showcases his appreciation for nostalgic and quirky pop culture references.

Favorite Scary Pop Culture

The trio discusses their favorite elements of spooky pop culture, ranging from classic literature to iconic horror films.

Carlos Lozada expresses his love for classic horror literature, particularly Edgar Allan Poe’s "The Cask of Amontillado," which he admits haunted his childhood and even his children. (03:15) He also praises Arthur Conan Doyle’s Sherlock Holmes stories, especially the eerie "The Speckled Band." (04:05) Carlos reminisces about his childhood fascination with 1970s religious-themed horror movies like The Exorcist and The Omen and discusses the intricate connections within these narratives. (05:30)

Ross Douthat shares his ambivalent relationship with horror films. While he philosophically appreciates the genre, citing movies like The Ring and Midsommar as his favorites, he humorously admits to physically reacting to horror by hiding behind his wife’s head during scary scenes. (13:34) He also touches on Stephen King’s influence, mentioning his early reading of King’s works like The Stand, which left a lasting impression on him. (15:47)

Michelle Cottle discusses her own experiences with horror, touching on both literature and film. She admires the understated approach of Catholic exorcists in horror films and shares a personal anecdote about her father's playful yet terrifying Halloween antics, involving dressing up as characters from The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. (18:30)

Personal Scary Experiences

Michelle recounts vivid childhood memories where her father and the neighbor’s father collaborated to create terrifying Halloween experiences. From dressing up as vampires to orchestrating chainsaw scares, these events left a lasting impact on her perception of horror. (19:07) She describes instances where she and her friends were genuinely frightened by what they believed were real supernatural events orchestrated by adults. (20:08)

Ross and Carlos share their own encounters with horror films and the fears they elicited. Ross mentions watching The Shining as a teenager, which combined his love for literature with cinematic fear. Carlos adds that sneaking into his sister’s viewing of The Shining led to nightmares, highlighting the film’s profound impact on him. (15:49) (16:08)

Deep Dive into Classic Horror Films

The hosts engage in an in-depth discussion about specific horror films, analyzing what makes them enduringly frightening:

• The Exorcist: Carlos and Ross discuss the portrayal of demonic possession and exorcism, noting the film’s lasting influence on horror cinema. (06:18) Carlos points out the eerie connection between Father Damien from The Exorcist and Damien from The Omen. (06:45)

• The Omen Series: They explore why The Omen is a standout in the horror genre, particularly praising the non-gory yet deeply unsettling nature of the film’s deaths. Carlos appreciates the film’s tasteful portrayal of evil, contrasting it with more graphic horror movies. (24:00) (24:26)

• The Shining: Ross critiques Stanley Kubrick’s adaptation of Stephen King’s novel, expressing disappointment in Jack Nicholson’s portrayal of Jack Torrance. He reflects on how the film’s interpretation diverges from the book, affecting his own reception of the story. (17:00) (18:12)

• Cabin in the Woods: Michelle lauds this 2011 film for its meta-commentary on horror tropes, appreciating its blend of horror and comedy. She praises how the film deconstructs typical horror scenarios, providing both scares and laughs without overwhelming the viewer. (22:19)

Horror Film Mechanics and Cultural Impact

The conversation touches on the mechanics that make horror films effective, such as:

• Jump Scares vs. Psychological Horror: Ross distinguishes between jump scares, which he finds difficult to handle, and psychological horror, which he appreciates for its depth. (13:13)

• Aesthetic and Atmosphere: The hosts discuss how the setting and visual elements of horror films contribute to their fear factor. Ross highlights Midsommar for its daylight horror aesthetic, which subverts traditional shadow-based fears. (14:19)

• Cultural and Religious Themes: Carlos and Michelle explore how religious themes, particularly those involving the supernatural and demonic, are prevalent in horror movies and resonate with audiences on a deeper level. (18:33)

Concluding Thoughts and Audience Engagement

As the episode wraps up, the hosts encourage listeners to share their favorite scary movies, books, or TV shows via voicemail, promising to feature audience suggestions in future episodes. Michelle adds a humorous note about potentially reading appendices of Return of the King if no suggestions are received, emphasizing the interactive nature of the bonus content. (26:21)

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Notable Quotes:

• Ross Douthat (02:00): "There's no time for costuming yourself. You just have to be prepared to hurl candy at a hundred shabbily dressed Harry Potters and Hermiones."

• Carlos Lozada (06:45): "I just watched this last week. Last year you watched the Exorcist. Okay, but there's one moment when he first introduces himself when he tells you his first name. His first name is Damian."

• Michelle Cottle (19:16): "I grew up not Catholic, but Southern Baptist. So they put a healthy fear, the devil, in you as well."

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This bonus episode of Matter of Opinion offers a rich exploration of horror in pop culture, intertwined with personal anecdotes and critical analysis. Whether you're a horror aficionado or just enjoy a good scare, the hosts provide insightful commentary and entertaining stories that capture the essence of Halloween and the enduring allure of the macabre.

Transcript

[Carlos]

Oh, no. There's a script for today.

[Ross]

What is my favorite scary movie? I hate scary movies.

[Carlos]

Where is. Where is. Where's the.

[Michelle]

You can go with TV or book. And it does, like, the interpretation of scary is very loose. So it could be like Melania's memoir.

[Ross]

Okay, ready?

[Michelle]

Three, three, two, one.

[Ross]

Welcome to the matter of opinion bonus feed.

[Michelle]

Dun dun dun.

[Carlos]

Inaugural edition.

[Ross]

Inaugural edition. And we'll see if they invite us back for any more.

[Michelle]

This is so exciting.

[Ross]

This is the place where we're gonna talk about all the things that we never seem to have time for in our regular episodes.

[Michelle]

Today, I think we should get scary as serious Moolah Devoted sight and sound.

[Carlos]

You have entered the moop zone.

[Michelle]

Sorry, can someone cut Carlos Mic?

[Ross]

I don't have that power. All right. So scary. You mean because it's October? It's October. It's October. Okay.

[Michelle]

As serious moo listeners know, I am a total freak about Halloween. The entire month of October at my house is devoted to, like, gaudy decorations, costume planning, and of course, horror movies.

[Ross]

TV shows, books, paganism, Satanism, things of that ilk.

[Carlos]

Have you picked your costume for this year?

[Michelle]

You know me so well. So this year we're not doing a huge party. Cause I'm gonna be mostly out of town recording bonus content for the Muscovites. But I am having, like, a Titanic themed murder mystery that we're hosting, so, like, we can huddle up with this letter.

[Carlos]

Ross, what are you gonna be for Halloween?

[Ross]

A harried father of five distributing candy on the porch. Our street in New Haven is a very good trick or treating street. It is long and quiet and flat, and on Halloween, the entire city descends. So you have to be. There's no time for costuming yourself. You just have to be prepared to hurl candy at a hundred shabbily dressed Harry Potters and Hermiones.

[Michelle]

I don't know. That's vaguely insulting to the neighbor's children. We get a lot of trick or treaters, too. And our yard. We've already started the decorating. I like it. Cause the neighbors come by when we're out decorating and they tell us which is their favorite, like the ghoul versus the ten foot skeleton or whatever.

[Ross]

Do you have a big front lawn?

[Michelle]

We do not have a big front lawn, but we do have a front lawn, like a tiny one. And then we have balconies. So we've been collecting decorations for like, 30 years. Just saying.

[Carlos]

Have you guys watched Gravity Falls?

[Michelle]

Yeah, yeah.

[Carlos]

This cartoon series in sort of this spooky town in the Northwest. I'm gonna be Grunkle Stan for Halloween.

[Ross]

You're actually. You're dressing up.

[Carlos]

I'm dressing up. They've wanted me to be Grunkle Stan for a long time, so they don't know. I hope they don't listen to the Boo Monus. I hope they don't listen to the Moo bonus content.

[Ross]

It's a matter of a thing.

[Michelle]

This is a surprise.

[Carlos]

They don't know I'm gonna be Grunkle Stan, that I actually got the outfit.

[Michelle]

Oh, my God. That's okay.

[Ross]

You're a good guy.

[Michelle]

There you go. Mini brownie points for you. Okay, so you guys need to tell me your favorite bit of spooky pop culture. Movies, TV shows, books. You know, if you wanna go this way, you can go high culture. Carlos, I don't know.

[Carlos]

Why are you looking at me?

[Michelle]

Cause you read.

[Carlos]

No, I mean. Okay, I can't pick one, so I'll. You don't have to pick one. I will meander my way there. Right. So like, I loved. And maybe you'll say this is high culture. It's not really, but when I was a kid, I loved sort of like scary short stories.

[Michelle]

Yeah.

[Carlos]

Edgar Allan Poe's the Cask of Amontillado freaked me the hell out. And I loved it. And I inflicted that on my own children when they were too young for that.

[Michelle]

That's not scarring.

[Carlos]

But, you know, Montresor Fortunato, the whole.

[Ross]

For the love of God, Carlo. For the love of God, Lozada.

[Carlos]

Rescue a Trump. I knew I called you Trump. I called you Trump.

[Ross]

Ross, this is the bonus comment.

[Carlos]

Rest in peace. I'm sure some of you read a lot of the Sherlock Holmes stories. I liked the kind of. I mean, I liked the campy ones like the Redheaded League, but I loved the spooky ones like the Speckled Band.

[Ross]

Oh, the Speckled. Okay. It's just a short story about, you know, deaths in mysterious circumstances that appear supernatural that Holmes and Watson have to investigate. I don't think we should say more.

[Carlos]

It's a classic one room history. Like, it's about what happens. How someone can commit murder against someone who's alone in a locked room.

[Ross]

Yes. So my 13 year old daughter, who is easily scared if she's listening. I don't mean that as an insult.

[Carlos]

Too late.

[Ross]

As we'll see later in this conversation, I too am easily scared. But she just read Hound of the Baskervilles for summer reading and then to her great credit, got really Went on a Sherlock Holmes kick.

[Michelle]

Nice.

[Ross]

And read all the way through. Well done. But when she was done, I was like. I was like, wait, did you read the Speckled Band? And she was like, dad, let's not talk about it. That's. Yeah.

[Carlos]

The great thing about the Speckled Band is, like, that night that they spend waiting, right. Just waiting for something to happen. And just like. And there's a few Sherlock Holmes stories like that where I think, in fact, in Red Headed League, they spend an evening waiting for the bank robbers. Right. But the Speckled Band is just one of the classics. In fact, in the remakes, in one of the many. I'm a Jeremy Brett purist. My favorite Sherlock Holmes Jeremy Brett ones. But I did like the. Of the Benedict Cumberbatch ones. I like the early ones in particular. And there's a moment when they make reference to one of their murder mysteries as the Speckled Blonde.

[Michelle]

Oh.

[Carlos]

Which is a little homage to the longtime fans. But anyway, so I loved the stories like Cascade of Amontillado, the Poe stuff and the Arthur Conan Doyle stuff. But I really, in the 80s as a child, I really got into 70s era religiously themed scary movies.

[Ross]

Namely a lot of good stuff.

[Carlos]

The Exorcist and the Omen series.

[Michelle]

Big Omen fan.

[Carlos]

And I loved the Omen series. Of course, I was living in Peru, so I watched them dubbed into Spanish. La Proficia was the name of the series. But it took me a while to realize the connective tissue between the Exorcist and the Omen, aside from all the thematic stuff, is remember the name of the young priest in the Exorcist. Father.

[Michelle]

Oh, no, I'm failing the quiz.

[Carlos]

Charis. Father Charis. I just watched this last week. Last year you watched the Exorcist. Okay, but there's one moment when he first introduces himself when he tells you his first name. His first name is Damian. So the priest who spoiler, who, you know, accomplishes the exorcism in the Exorcist, shares a first name with the Antichrist figure in the Omen.

[Ross]

Wow.

[Carlos]

Yeah. So that is my contribution to this conversation. I love those movies. I was obsessed with them. I didn't like Omen 3 the Final Conflict as much. Sam Neill just didn't do it for me as Damien Thorne.

[Ross]

Sam Neill does a great slow burn of madness. No, that is true. Sam Neill in what's the Haunted House in Space Event Horizon, where he slowly goes mad and is taken over by the devil on a spaceship. And it culminates with. I Think he's torn out his own eyes.

[Michelle]

Oh, my God.

[Ross]

This is a ship. A ship that thinks it's. I don't think I've seen this one. It's pioneered. They think they've pioneered faster than light travel, right? But guess what? They opened a portal to hell. So anyway, so he's, you know, he's looked through the portal to hell and he's torn out his eyes, and he's pointing a gun at one of the main characters. And the main character is like, you know, well, why do you think you're gonna miss? And Sam Neill, like, totally deadpan, eyeless, pointing the gun is like, what makes you think I'll miss? So what? You know, apart from, like, a healthy fear of the devil, which I endorse. What about those movies? Keeps you coming back to them. Why did they scare you so much?

[Carlos]

I don't watch them, like, every year. Like, Michelle here, I have a problem. But, you know, I went to Catholic grade school, high school, and college. That is a significant part of my life.

[Ross]

A good grounding for healthy attitudes to the supernatural.

[Carlos]

And so the. The notion of especially of sort of Satan being embodied in this adorable child, you know, was.

[Ross]

This is the pronatalist's nightmare, right?

[Carlos]

Was it incredibly freaky?

[Ross]

Well, that I was gonna ask about Rosemary's Baby.

[Carlos]

I have never seen Rosemary's Baby.

[Michelle]

What is wrong with you?

[Carlos]

Nunca. Ever.

[Michelle]

Okay, field trip. Field trip.

[Carlos]

But I think that was what kind of, like, freaked me out, you know, the juxtaposition of, like, sweet innocence and sort of complete evil in a child. But in fact, I think, which rarely happens, that I like the sequel just about as much. I mean, except for the Godfather, right? Like, about as much as the original. The second Omen. You know, Damien Omen part two, when Damian is about 14 years old, is amazing, and he has to discover who he is. And the thing is, he doesn't want to be the devil. He doesn't want to be who he is. And oh, my God. But finally, like, every teenager imagine that, like, landing on you, you know, all of a sudden, like, hate to tell you, kid, but, like, you know, you are the Antichrist.

[Ross]

Is he the Antichrist or the devil?

[Michelle]

I thought Damian was the Antichrist.

[Ross]

Right. Cause he's in Rosemary's Baby. Spoiler the baby.

[Carlos]

La la la la la la la la. I haven't seen this.

[Michelle]

Oh, come on.

[Carlos]

I think I always confused Rosemary's Baby and Sophie's Choice. Cause I haven't seen either.

[Ross]

Very, very different movies.

[Carlos]

Yeah. Although I've seen neither one. I've seen neither one.

[Ross]

Similar difficulties for mothers, right parenthood for the pro neighborhood. Both challenging for the pronatalist cause. How did we get here?

[Carlos]

One was Damien the devil, which you.

[Ross]

Could, you know, presumably, maybe the Antichrist does have free will and could notionally, like maybe there have been some proto antichrists who did reject, reject Satan and all his pomps and works. Perhaps one of us made that fateful. You know, Carlos, you could have been on a very different path.

[Michelle]

What makes you think Carlos has made the right choice?

[Carlos]

You don't know what I do on weekends. You don't know what I do.

[Ross]

Once you become a book critic, I think your chances of global power, global domination. Here's one more question. Are there any. You know, there have been so many contemporary exorcist knockoffs and so on. Like, I think Russell Crowe played two separate exorcists. Have there been any movies in the last 10 or 15 years in that zone that have, like, given you that old time religion feeling, you know?

[Carlos]

No. In part because the others exist, right? I read a great review years ago of one of these movies. I can't remember which movie it was, but a movie just, you know, similar to the Exorcist. I think it was in Commonweal magazine. Perfectly apropos. Apropos.

[Michelle]

I knew Apropos.

[Carlos]

And I was reading In Commonweal and the reviewer was talking about this movie and talking about how the characters were trying to figure out, like, what was wrong with this kid. And in the review, the guy says, like, you know, it was weird because, I mean, haven't these characters seen the Exorcist? Right. You know, and so it's hard, right? Like, once the Exorcist exists, it's difficult to, you know, have movies that exist in the absence of that knowledge. Right. Because it's so culturally.

[Ross]

Right.

[Carlos]

You know, present and so. No, I mean, but it's not that. Like, I've seen them and found them all wanting in comparison to the Exorcist. I just haven't engaged in them. These were like childhood events. Watching the Exorcist, watching the Omen. And it's not something I've continued in adulthood.

[Ross]

All right, Michelle.

[Michelle]

No, you have to go next.

[Ross]

Oh, I have to go next? You have to go next. Who's even hosting here? Didn't I speak first in the. I thought I thought I had. Look, Michelle thought I had the conch.

[Carlos]

So you gotta go next.

[Michelle]

I got to pick the top.

[Carlos]

The Conk or the Con?

[Michelle]

The Conk.

[Ross]

The conk. Like the shell.

[Carlos]

I don't know what this is.

[Michelle]

Do you not read the.

[Ross]

Of course you do. Lord of the Flies.

[Carlos]

I read Lord of the Flies.

[Michelle]

Oh, you've. Oh, my God.

[Ross]

What is this? Who are you?

[Michelle]

Who's gonna get you fired?

[Carlos]

I grew up in high school reading like, El Mio, Sid and Cervantes. I'm sorry, I didn't read Lord of the Flies. Excuse me.

[Ross]

The exposed litterateur retreats to pretension to solve his wounded.

[Carlos]

No, it was in a different country.

[Ross]

Read Lord of the Flies. My God. And then you'll know what the con.

[Carlos]

I thought you meant the con, as in Star Trek.

[Michelle]

We're gonna get him a con. You have the con.

[Ross]

Oh, Star Trek. You saw Star Trek dubbed in Spanish, right? No, I thought you say make it.

[Carlos]

So that was adulthood.

[Ross]

That was adulthood. Okay. All right.

[Carlos]

So I. Cassia, is what I would say.

[Ross]

I also appreciate exorcism type movies, but perhaps I have a slightly overzealous and scrupulous fear of the devil and demons. And so I can only go so far before I'm like, maybe this. You know, it's not even good to think too much about that stuff. That's what makes it scary. No, I know. I agree. I mean, generally. Generally, I hate horror. Not, like, aesthetically I appreciate, you know, that. I mean, it is the most right wing genre. Right? Like, the devil is always real. That kind of thing.

[Michelle]

Don't be having sex.

[Ross]

Well, that too, yeah. So philosophically I appreciate it, but as a consumer of pop culture, I just can't. I can't deal with a lot of horror. The two movies from my adulthood that I have sort of appreciated the most are we're both big hips. One is the Ring. The American version.

[Michelle]

The American.

[Ross]

The American version with Naomi Watts. America, which was a movie I saw with my. Maybe she was my fiance then my now wife, and I was literally like hiding behind her head at various points. Like, I am not a. I am like, I'm a finger. If I have to go to a movie theater and watch a horror movie, I will watch it with my fingers in my ears. It's like the jump scares. There's nothing wrong with that I can't deal with, but I really. I think Gore Verbinski directed it. I thought it was really, really good. And I also really appreciated Midsommar, which was, you know, again, also a right wing movie about how, you know, Scandinavian paganism is bad. Right. You know, and euthanasia, also bad. And graduate students evil. Right. So it covered all my bases.

[Carlos]

But what a nonpartisan.

[Ross]

What I love, right? No, that's bipartisan. Yeah. But what I appreciated about Midsommar was it all, you know, it's like the land of the midnight sun, right? Like summertime in upper Scandinavia. So there's really no night.

[Michelle]

There's no shadow.

[Ross]

So everything is daylight. And it sort of. It really. There were still some jump scares, but it actually reduced my anxiety level and enabled me to sort of appreciate the aesthetics of the horror movie more because I had less, like, what's in the shadows kind of vibes. There were no shadows, so those would be, I guess, two of my choices. There's also an interesting thing about what scares you, right? Like, Carlos, obviously, I share your deep fear of the demonic and so on. Like a good Catholic. But you get interesting variations, Right? So, like, my wife and I both like the Shining, but she prefers the movie where there's more emphasis on, like, the human element. Like, you're stuck in a place with a crazy, super alcoholic, murderous father and husband. Right. And the ghosts are there, but, like, it's. The primary fear in the movie is more Jack Nicholson. And in the book, the primary fear is more the ghosts. And as more of a supernaturalist, I find that scarier. Right. So I think there's interesting, like, do you fear the serial killer? Or, you know, the thing that steals your soul more is one interesting divide in horror appreciation.

[Carlos]

How old were you when you watched the Shining?

[Ross]

Not that young. I read it before I watched it. I read a lot of King as a teenager, and it was, like, the right level. Like, it scared me, but I enjoyed it. Like, we would, you know, go on vacation in Maine, which is the perfect place, obviously, to read Stephen King. I remember reading the Stand.

[Michelle]

That's not really horror.

[Ross]

I mean, it is, but not really. But, like, the. I mean, this was long before COVID obviously, but there was this moment, sitting, reading the Stand on the beach, and, like, the super flu is taking over America, and you're like, look, I'm, like, looking around at the beach. I'm like. I'm surrounded by, you know, plague vectors. That was a formative memory.

[Carlos]

I saw the Shining when I was way too young to see the Shining. My older sister was having a party with some of her friends.

[Michelle]

Anything with Kubrick is gonna.

[Carlos]

And so I, like, snuck into the family room or wherever they were watching the movie and, like, watched it with them. I had nightmares for weeks.

[Ross]

Right, and you realized it was about how we faked the moon landing. And you never recovered your faith in America after that. Have either of you seen the documentary about the Shining and the, you know, the fan. Fan theories about the Shining? Oh, I highly.

[Michelle]

Wait, you don't watch horror, but you do read the fan theories.

[Ross]

I'm like the guy in Whit Stillman's Metropolitan.

[Michelle]

Yes.

[Ross]

Who says, I prefer good literary criticism. That way you get the, you know, the authors and the critic. Anyway, no, room 237 if you like. Or fear the Shining. It's worth. Like, it gets into just sort of, you know, the weirdness of Kubrick, but also like the escalating weirdness of the fan theories. Because there is a whole fan theory that says Stanley Kubrick worked for the US Government faking the moon landing, and the Shining is his confession of guilt.

[Carlos]

Is it true, this is the thing that you hear about the Shining, that Stephen King wanted Jon Voight rather than Jack Nicholson to play the lead because he felt that with Nicholson, he kind of looked mad from the beginning, whereas the whole point. The whole point was the slow descent into madness and he wanted someone different.

[Ross]

I don't know if that's true. I know King didn't like the adaptation and made there was like, I think a King produced miniseries. Not a great miniseries at all, I don't think. But that is, to me, the thing that I can't quite get over in the movie. As someone who read the book first, it just seems like you're watching the movie, you're like, well, this guy's a lunatic. Why would you hire him from the.

[Carlos]

Start, right from the start.

[Michelle]

Why would you go out to the middle of nowhere with that guy?

[Carlos]

Well, that's not gonna happen to me. Yeah, yeah. It's from the very beginning.

[Ross]

Okay, so we're gonna do a special bonus episode just of Carlos and I attempted to. Michelle, you're welcome. No imitating. That was a good. That was a really good. That was a good Nicholson.

[Carlos]

I'll take it. I'll take it.

[Ross]

All right, Michelle, what scares you?

[Michelle]

All right, so a little bit like you guys. Well, I grew up not Catholic, but Southern Baptist. So they put a healthy fear, the devil, in you as well.

[Carlos]

It's particularly healthy fear as well.

[Michelle]

So I was always. Actually, I think I kind of admired the low key approach of the Catholic demon chasers in the Omen and things like that. There wasn't a lot of, you know, gnashing of teeth.

[Ross]

The reassuring thing about Catholicism is that everything is bureaucratized. So it's like, okay, you got a demon, you call somebody. Here's the level of the Bureaucracy.

[Carlos]

There's a guy whose job it is. It's like a university with way too many associate deans. There's an associate dean of exorcism that you can go to.

[Michelle]

But see, I grew up with a father who delighted in terrifying me from the time I was tiny. I would rarely sleep by myself. I'd go crawl in bed with my parents because I would try to go to bed and he'd be yelling from the next room, tell Harvey under the bed goodnight. And that would be it for the night. And so, like, with all of the 70s and 80s, like slasher movies and Halloweens and Friday the 13th, he would buddy up with our next door neighbor. So I had a best friend who dated my next door neighbor, and I dated his best friend. And so the dads would lock the doors and cut on the alarms at night, but then at some point, they would sneak and unlock the doors so that my next door neighbor's dad could dress up like the guy from the Chainsaw Massacre and jump through the back door and terrify.

[Carlos]

Was he trying to keep you guys from making out or something? Like, what was going on here?

[Ross]

How many times did this happen?

[Michelle]

Okay, so it depends on how you want to look at. Once he led us into his house so that we could dress up like vampires and terrify his son.

[Ross]

Okay.

[Michelle]

And then once.

[Ross]

How old was said son?

[Michelle]

We were all like, about 15, I think.

[Ross]

Okay.

[Michelle]

But if you wake up in the middle of the night and there are two vampires standing over you in the dark and you didn't let them eat, you're gonna, like, be a little off put. Or. One night, my best friend and I were sitting on the deck and we heard. It was probably like midnight and we heard a chainsaw crank up and we're like, what in the hell is going on? And so, like, it kind of went off down through the woods that ran behind the houses. And so the next morning, we get up and we see our neighbor and you know, the dad, and he's like, so, did you girls have a good night? We're like, yeah. Why? He's like, nothing unusual happened? No. He had apparently seen two teenage girls walking through his backyard, gotten his chainsaw and chased them through the woods because.

[Ross]

They were the wrong. Thought they were the wrong teenage girls. And then he murdered them. And it was very embarrassing for everybody.

[Carlos]

There are two traumatized women, traumatized women.

[Michelle]

In middle Tennessee who think they came this close to. Let us.

[Carlos]

Actually, he gave them a story that they have been able to share for the rest of Their lives. He just.

[Ross]

That's true. That's right. He's the real hero.

[Michelle]

All right, so this probably. This probably gives you a sense of why I'm such a nervous colleague and have a serious twitchy condition. But it also explains why what I'm gonna pitch here is I watch all the classics. I watch a lot of the new ones, but I love what is. I think it was 2011 flick called Cabin in the woods, which is basically a comedy horror. So the movie flips back and forth between these two interconnected storylines. One is, you know, your usual scenario. Five college kids heading out for a weekend at somebody's uncle's spooky cabin in the woods. And the other is, like, these two, you know, pocket protected, geeky government agents who play brilliantly by Bradley Whitford and Richard Jenkins, who are in this secret, high tech, sprawling underground bunker where they are controlling the action that's taking place in the spooky cabin. So it's their manipulations that then explain all of the bad horror movie tropes, like why people always split up, why the kids having sex always get killed first. You know, why you drop the weapons you could use later. And then from there, things just get weirder and more meta and more absurd, which, as you might imagine, I like a lot. So it at the same time satisfies my desire to be scared in a way which is kind of consequence free, but also gives me comic relief so that I don't, you know, become way too terrified to get up and go to the bathroom in the middle of the night.

[Ross]

But we're not gonna spoil the ending.

[Michelle]

You've seen it.

[Ross]

I mean, I. Well, this is actually a good example of how I consume horror movies. I've seen, like, bits and pieces. It seemed interesting enough that I like, you know, read about it. Yeah, and I read a lot of spoilers for horror movies because I am genuinely interested, but I don't always want to experience them in full.

[Michelle]

I understand. No, I love to know what makes people scared. I do believe there is a lot to be learned by what freaks people out. Just like I think there are two types of people. Those who are claustrophobic and those who are an agoraphobic. And that tells you a lot about their personality.

[Carlos]

What level of gore is right for you in your horror movies?

[Michelle]

Mm, it's not scary. The gore isn't scary. I can tolerate it, but that's not. I don't like the Saw movies and stuff like that where they're just chopping folks up.

[Carlos]

One of the things I loved about the Omen was, like, the incredibly creepy way that people were killed in the Omen. There's the priest that's impaled when, like, the thing falls off the top of the cathedral or whatever. Then there's, like, the photojournalist who's decapitated by this sheet of glass. Yes, yes. You know, the woman attacked by the evil crow.

[Michelle]

Oh, I don't remember that.

[Carlos]

Those deaths are so memorable. Like, the manner of the deaths, you know, the dogs that.

[Michelle]

Like that just.

[Carlos]

Yeah, yeah. But in fact, the dogs don't kill them in the cemetery.

[Michelle]

Nobody show up in the cemetery.

[Carlos]

The dogs are always there, even though.

[Michelle]

No blood is shed.

[Carlos]

Yeah. So, like, they were creepy, but they weren't, like, gory in a sense. They were, like, weirdly. I thought the deaths in the Omen were weirdly. Like, both creepy, but tastefully done. And that I liked. Like the Blair Witch Project. Right. I remember they leave it to your majesty when things are left to you.

[Ross]

Stand in the corner.

[Carlos]

Tell me where you are, Josh. Yeah, but it was. I saw that in a theater by myself.

[Ross]

Yeah, so did I.

[Carlos]

Because a friend didn't want to go see it with me.

[Ross]

I didn't have any friends back then, so, you know, I mean, similar.

[Michelle]

And that's different now, Hal.

[Ross]

Well, I have kids now, so.

[Carlos]

And we get paid to be his friends.

[Michelle]

Oh, that's true.

[Carlos]

Yeah. But, yeah, like, the Blair Witch. I saw that alone in a theater. Freak me out.

[Michelle]

My problem with the Blair Witch is they have that camera movement where it's very jiggly, where they're like. It literally makes me a little bit queasy. And I remember we went and saw. A bunch of us went and saw that at this converted porn theater in D.C. so, you know, like, you had the converted.

[Ross]

Yeah, got it.

[Carlos]

Wait, that's the one near Dupont Circle. Yeah, that's the one that showed Donnie Darko for, like, a year. Remember?

[Michelle]

No, I don't remember that part.

[Carlos]

Anyway, sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

[Ross]

You guys know a lot about converted.

[Michelle]

Porn to get up and go out because a friend got so, like, she was going to throw up, so we had to leave the theater temporarily. Okay, there you have it. Good times in porn theaters. Just saying.

[Carlos]

Wow, that's quite a conclusion.

[Ross]

Is that. Are we just ending or do we. I think we need a. We should do it like Arrested Development where they have a fake.

[Michelle]

Next time.

[Ross]

A fake coming attraction.

[Michelle]

Next time.

[Ross]

Next time on bonus content.

[Michelle]

Come on, come on, come on. The man in a $5,000 suit okay. Okay. On that incredibly genre crushing, strange note, we're gonna close it for today, but if you want to tell us your favorite scary movie or book or TV show or whatever, you know how to reach us, you can get us by voicemail at 212-556-7440. And we just might respond in an upcoming episode.

[Ross]

And you really do want to suggest things, because otherwise it will be literally just me reading the appendices to Return of the king for, like, 45 minutes if we don't come up with ideas. So just fair warning that's some kind of bonus.

[Carlos]

I don't know what that is. That's.

[Michelle]

That's a punishment. Bye, guys. Say bye. Damn it.

[Ross]

Oh. Goodbye.

[Carlos]

Bye, everyone.

[Ross]

Adios. This is gonna be huge. These bonus episodes, they're gonna change.

[Michelle]

They're gonna be so embarrassed if they are.

[Ross]

Lives.

[Carlos]

Sanguis. Bibi. Moose.

[Michelle]

I knew we were gonna get Latin. Stop it.

[Carlos]

That's the Omen theme.

[Ross]

I outsourced all the Latin to Carlos songs.

[Carlos]

The Omen theme.