Summary of "Our Mount Rushmore of Fictional Presidents" – Matter of Opinion Podcast
Podcast Information:
- Title: Matter of Opinion
- Host/Author: New York Times Opinion
- Hosts: Michelle Cottle, Ross Douthat, Carlos Lozada
- Description: Thoughts, aloud. Hosted by Michelle Cottle, Ross Douthat, and Carlos Lozada. Every Friday, from New York Times Opinion.
- Episode: Our Mount Rushmore of Fictional Presidents
- Release Date: November 26, 2024
Introduction
In the November 26, 2024 episode of Matter of Opinion, hosts Michelle Cottle, Ross Douthat, and Carlos Lozada delve into the realm of fictional presidencies in popular culture. Inspired by Carlos's suggestion, the trio explores their favorite fictional presidents, discussing why these characters resonate with them and the broader implications of their portrayals in media.
The Genesis of the Discussion
Carlos initiates the conversation with a light-hearted acknowledgment of the holiday season, quickly steering the topic toward their favorite fictional presidents. He introduces the idea:
Carlos [00:18]: "Carlos came up with the suggestion to talk about our favorite fictional presidents. Why they appeal to us."
Ross humorously takes blame for the idea, while Michelle reveals that Carlos's original idea—focusing on magical realist Latin American novelists—was vetoed, prompting the shift to fictional presidents.
Ross Douthat’s Choice: President Jed Bartlett from The West Wing
Ross champions President Jed Bartlett from the TV series The West Wing as his top fictional president. He elaborates on Bartlett's appeal, intertwining personal anecdotes:
Ross [03:35]: "President Jed Bartlett... a center left fantasy, right? It was like the Clinton White House, but with like a better person at the middle of it."
Ross appreciates Bartlett's characterization as an economist and his intellectual depth, noting Bartlett's heritage from the University of Notre Dame and his proficiency in Latin—a nod to Ross's own background in the liturgical choir:
Ross [04:10]: "For me, that was appealing because... I kind of learned some Latin and I thought that was very cool."
He fondly recalls the scene where Bartlett prays in Latin at the Washington Cathedral, highlighting the character's complexity and humanity.
Michelle Cottle’s Preference: President Thomas J. Whitmore from Independence Day
Contrasting Ross's choice, Michelle opts for President Thomas J. Whitmore from the blockbuster movie Independence Day. She defends her selection by emphasizing the character's everyman qualities and iconic moments:
Michelle [09:24]: "It's President Thomas J. Whitmore... the man who faced down an alien invasion and gave..."
Despite a playful critique from Ross about her rendition of Whitmore's famous speech, Michelle underscores the character's embodiment of 1990s Americana and resilience.
Carlos Lozada’s Pick: Francis Urquhart from BBC’s House of Cards
Carlos selects Francis Urquhart, the Prime Minister from the original BBC version of House of Cards, as his fictional leader of choice. He praises Urquhart's Machiavellian depth and the intricate portrayal:
Carlos [15:53]: "Francis Urquhart... pure Machiavellian, sinister, low key British, just evil in the best way possible."
Carlos contrasts the British version with its American counterpart, critiquing the latter’s interpretation but lauding the original for its sophisticated narrative and character development.
Additional Discussions: Idiocracy and Alternate Realities
The conversation extends to other fictional presidents, including a brief mention of the satirical film Idiocracy. Ross references President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho, while Michelle critiques the movie's execution but acknowledges its cultural significance.
Critiques of Portrayed Presidents and Political Ideals
The hosts engage in a nuanced debate about the ideological underpinnings of their chosen characters. Michelle discusses the West Wing as a representation of center-left politics but also acknowledges its flaws, such as President Bartlett hiding his multiple sclerosis—a plot point drawing parallels to real-world political scenarios.
Carlos offers a critical perspective, arguing that The West Wing fosters an idealistic view of politics:
Carlos [08:11]: "It taught an entire generation of people that politics is a place for like idealists who get to go in there and flaunt their virtue..."
Ross counters by highlighting the show's focus on the "art of the possible," suggesting a more pragmatic portrayal:
Ross [08:27]: "It is a place for hard nosed realists for the most part. It is the art of the possible, not the fantasies of..."
Recommendations and Cultural Reflections
Michelle recommends pairing movies like Independence Day and Air Force One to understand the 1990s' cultural and political climate. She elaborates on Air Force One's depiction of presidential resilience and the challenges of uncompromising leadership.
Carlos introduces House of Cards as a superior British counterpart, advocating for its authenticity and complexity over the American adaptation.
Conclusion and Future Directions
As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the impact of fictional presidents on public perception and political discourse. They invite listeners to share their thoughts and suggest future topics, hinting at discussions on biographies and alternative history novels.
Michelle [25:13]: "I want to read a great alternative history of America..."
Carlos [25:49]: "What's it called? Please share, Ross."
Ross briefly mentions his upcoming fantasy novel, "The Falcon's Children," teasing potential future discussions on the fantasy genre.
Notable Quotes
- Carlos [00:18]: "Carlos came up with the suggestion to talk about our favorite fictional presidents. Why they appeal to us."
- Ross [04:10]: "For me, that was appealing because... I kind of learned some Latin and I thought that was very cool."
- Michelle [09:24]: "It's President Thomas J. Whitmore... the man who faced down an alien invasion and gave..."
- Carlos [15:53]: "Francis Urquhart... pure Machiavellian, sinister, low key British, just evil in the best way possible."
- Carlos [08:11]: "It taught an entire generation of people that politics is a place for like idealists who get to go in there and flaunt their virtue..."
- Ross [08:27]: "It is a place for hard nosed realists for the most part. It is the art of the possible, not the fantasies of..."
This episode of Matter of Opinion offers a reflective exploration of fictional presidencies, revealing how these characters encapsulate societal ideals, fears, and aspirations. Through their discussion, Ross, Michelle, and Carlos provide insights into the interplay between media portrayals and real-world political perceptions.