Interesting Times with Ross Douthat
Episode: The MAGA Woman Dress Code
Date: August 28, 2025
Fill-in Host: Meher Ahmad, NYT Opinion
Guest: Jessica Gross, NYT Opinion Writer
Topic: The Aesthetics and Cultural Politics of MAGA Femininity
Brief Overview
In this episode, Meher Ahmad interviews Jessica Gross about the evolving, highly recognizable "MAGA beauty" aesthetic among conservative women in U.S. politics and influencer culture. They explore how this look—marked by heavy makeup, stylized hair, and form-fitted clothing—serves as both a political signal and a cultural statement. Their discussion ranges from the roots in pageant and Southern culture, through Trump-era politics, to present-day viral social media dynamics.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The MAGA Female Aesthetic – What It Looks Like
[02:09]
- Jessica Gross describes the look as being defined by “Utah curls” (loose, center-parted, curled hair), heavy matte makeup (often appearing cosmetically enhanced), large cross accessories, and always form-fitted clothing.
- Quoting influencer Suzanne Lambert, Jessica says:
“The makeup look is very heavy. It is flat and matte... It’s giving drained, it’s giving dusty. We want to make sure that it doesn’t look like we’ve ever used moisturizer once in our life.” – [03:02], Suzanne Lambert via Jessica Gross
Aesthetic as Political Signal
[04:21]
- Meher and Jessica discuss how this look distinctly contrasts with mainstream beauty standards (the “clean girl”, minimalist dewy aesthetic).
- Jessica points out the aesthetic functions as a quick, viral social signal:
“Algorithms run on homogeneity. I think having that look makes it easier to go viral because it’s already saying, I am part of this particular team.” – [03:43], Jessica Gross
- Before they speak, the audience "already has an idea of who they are and potentially what they stand for."
A Uniform as Armor
[07:42]
- Jessica notes that women in politics often use uniformity in dress and style as a sort of “armor or mask.”
“If the way that you look is the same every time ... it is potentially a way to get the message across further.” – [07:42], Jessica Gross
- Points to the wider, ongoing scrutiny of women’s appearance versus men’s in politics.
The Pageant, Kardashian, and Social Media Connection
[08:31]
- The roots: strong influences from Southern pageant culture, momfluencers, and the now-outmoded “Kardashian runoff” look (heavy foundation, strong contouring).
- Trump’s personal preferences and history with beauty pageants have reinforced this aesthetic in his inner political circle.
“It is in some ways appealing to this audience of one [Trump], which is a prerequisite for this role.” – [09:01], Jessica Gross
Hyper-Femininity as Gender Politics
[09:46]
- Jessica observes the irony of this hyper-feminine aesthetic as a statement of “real womanhood”—often used as a wedge against trans women and gender non-conforming people.
“You see it with Nancy [Mace]. She is often attacking trans women ... [this] hyper-feminine look is a way to communicate that ... It all feels drag adjacent. It’s the big fake eyelashes ... it’s exaggerated.” – [09:46][10:01], Jessica Gross
Influencing as an Avenue to Power
[10:50]
- For conservative women discouraged from traditional public careers, influencer culture offers income and influence while remaining within prescribed gender roles.
“...Influencing was the only way for them to have a real voice and for them to make money while still fulfilling their communities perceived...roles as wives and mothers.” – [10:50], Jessica Gross
- Even high-profile MAGA women blend influencer strategies with political messaging.
Smart Use of the "Womanosphere"
[12:33]
- Conservative political women smartly co-opt social channels—where “going on a running influencer’s TikTok” is akin to men going on Joe Rogan, but with smaller reach and more backlash (since Gen Z women trend liberal).
- Jessica notes contradictions: conservative outlets praise women like Carolyn Leavitt for minimizing maternity leave, even as they platform motherhood ideals.
“...they’re working out how to graft their message onto a generation of women that has clearly moved forward in some profound way.” – [13:42]
Virality, Conflict, and Backlash
[14:09]
- Social media virality is a double-edged sword: aggressive aesthetics + social confrontation (as with Nancy Mace) bring national attention, but can easily backfire—even internally.
- Jessica recounts the story of Nancy Mace posting about a male constituent she perceived as a heckler:
“When she posted it to her social media, she said that he was basically like a liberal maniac and that ... he was wearing Daisy Duke shorts ... it was clearly like a dog whistle about his masculinity ... I even found that shocking that she would do that.” – [15:39], Jessica Gross
- Jessica recounts the story of Nancy Mace posting about a male constituent she perceived as a heckler:
No Cohesive Left-Wing Female Aesthetic
[16:38]
- Unlike MAGA women, there’s “no cohesive Democrat aesthetic.” The right uses stereotypes ("blue hair") but the left defaults to individualism and inclusivity.
“I do think because they have such a narrow vision of appropriate femininity, so it is easier to have the trappings ... for liberals ... more individuality in terms of your fashion or gender expression, I guess.” – [17:12], Jessica Gross
Can the Trend Last?
[18:14]
- While the look + attitude can power quick platforms, audience fatigue is possible—viral hate-watching is not the same as genuine support.
“There’s not necessarily a linear correlation between everybody seeing something and everybody supporting something.” – [18:36], Jessica Gross
- Example: Carrie Lake in Arizona, who had the look and approach, but still lost her race.
Humorous Closing—Team Dewy or Matte?
[19:19]
- On personal preference for beauty trends:
“I’m dewy. I just wanna look like a glazed donut all the time. Who doesn’t?” – [19:19], Jessica Gross
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On aesthetic signaling:
“Before anything actually comes out of their mouths, you already have an idea of who they are and potentially what they stand for.” – Jessica Gross [03:43] - On the irony of gender performance:
“It all feels drag adjacent... it’s exaggerated. But I think part of that is also about knowing their audience.” – Jessica Gross [10:01] - On influencer culture as conservative women’s empowerment:
“...In a lot of conservative communities where women are not encouraged to have day jobs … influencing was the only way for them to have a real voice.” – Jessica Gross [10:50] - On the challenge of a Democratic ‘look’:
“I think there’d just be no way to do it and have it feel organic… It’s like why we keep having the discussion of, ‘Why isn’t there a liberal Joe Rogan?’” – Jessica Gross [17:56] - On trend fatigue and hate-watching:
“There’s not necessarily a linear correlation between everybody seeing something and everybody supporting something.” – Jessica Gross [18:36]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [02:09] — The MAGA Look, "Utah curls" and Republican makeup
- [03:43] — Aesthetic as political signaling and mainstream contrast
- [07:42] — Uniform as armor for women politicians
- [09:01] — Pageant history, Kardashian influence, and Trump's taste
- [09:46] — Hyper-femininity and exclusionary politics
- [10:50] — Influencing in conservative communities
- [12:33] — "Womanosphere" and adapting old roles for new platforms
- [14:09] — Virality: benefits and backlashes (Nancy Mace story)
- [16:38] — Why there’s no clear left-wing counterpart
- [18:36] — Trend longevity and audience fatigue
Overall Tone & Flow
The conversation is witty, incisive, and self-aware, blending cultural analysis with political commentary. Gross and Ahmad engage critically but with humor, particularly in noting ironies and contradictions in both conservative and broader American gender politics.
Summary prepared by Podcast AI
For listeners: This episode provides a nuanced primer on how appearance, influence, and gender expectation are wielded and weaponized in contemporary U.S. politics, both online and off.