The MAGA Woman Dress Code

Summary

Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

Episode: The MAGA Woman Dress Code
Date: August 28, 2025
Fill-in Host: Meher Ahmad, NYT Opinion
Guest: Jessica Gross, NYT Opinion Writer
Topic: The Aesthetics and Cultural Politics of MAGA Femininity

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Brief Overview

In this episode, Meher Ahmad interviews Jessica Gross about the evolving, highly recognizable "MAGA beauty" aesthetic among conservative women in U.S. politics and influencer culture. They explore how this look—marked by heavy makeup, stylized hair, and form-fitted clothing—serves as both a political signal and a cultural statement. Their discussion ranges from the roots in pageant and Southern culture, through Trump-era politics, to present-day viral social media dynamics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The MAGA Female Aesthetic – What It Looks Like

[02:09]

• Jessica Gross describes the look as being defined by “Utah curls” (loose, center-parted, curled hair), heavy matte makeup (often appearing cosmetically enhanced), large cross accessories, and always form-fitted clothing.
  • Quoting influencer Suzanne Lambert, Jessica says:

  “The makeup look is very heavy. It is flat and matte... It’s giving drained, it’s giving dusty. We want to make sure that it doesn’t look like we’ve ever used moisturizer once in our life.” – [03:02], Suzanne Lambert via Jessica Gross

Aesthetic as Political Signal

[04:21]

• Meher and Jessica discuss how this look distinctly contrasts with mainstream beauty standards (the “clean girl”, minimalist dewy aesthetic).
• Jessica points out the aesthetic functions as a quick, viral social signal:

  “Algorithms run on homogeneity. I think having that look makes it easier to go viral because it’s already saying, I am part of this particular team.” – [03:43], Jessica Gross

  • Before they speak, the audience "already has an idea of who they are and potentially what they stand for."

A Uniform as Armor

[07:42]

• Jessica notes that women in politics often use uniformity in dress and style as a sort of “armor or mask.”

  “If the way that you look is the same every time ... it is potentially a way to get the message across further.” – [07:42], Jessica Gross

  • Points to the wider, ongoing scrutiny of women’s appearance versus men’s in politics.

The Pageant, Kardashian, and Social Media Connection

[08:31]

• The roots: strong influences from Southern pageant culture, momfluencers, and the now-outmoded “Kardashian runoff” look (heavy foundation, strong contouring).
• Trump’s personal preferences and history with beauty pageants have reinforced this aesthetic in his inner political circle.

  “It is in some ways appealing to this audience of one [Trump], which is a prerequisite for this role.” – [09:01], Jessica Gross

Hyper-Femininity as Gender Politics

[09:46]

• Jessica observes the irony of this hyper-feminine aesthetic as a statement of “real womanhood”—often used as a wedge against trans women and gender non-conforming people.

  “You see it with Nancy [Mace]. She is often attacking trans women ... [this] hyper-feminine look is a way to communicate that ... It all feels drag adjacent. It’s the big fake eyelashes ... it’s exaggerated.” – [09:46][10:01], Jessica Gross

Influencing as an Avenue to Power

[10:50]

• For conservative women discouraged from traditional public careers, influencer culture offers income and influence while remaining within prescribed gender roles.

  “...Influencing was the only way for them to have a real voice and for them to make money while still fulfilling their communities perceived...roles as wives and mothers.” – [10:50], Jessica Gross

• Even high-profile MAGA women blend influencer strategies with political messaging.

Smart Use of the "Womanosphere"

[12:33]

• Conservative political women smartly co-opt social channels—where “going on a running influencer’s TikTok” is akin to men going on Joe Rogan, but with smaller reach and more backlash (since Gen Z women trend liberal).
• Jessica notes contradictions: conservative outlets praise women like Carolyn Leavitt for minimizing maternity leave, even as they platform motherhood ideals.

  “...they’re working out how to graft their message onto a generation of women that has clearly moved forward in some profound way.” – [13:42]

Virality, Conflict, and Backlash

[14:09]

• Social media virality is a double-edged sword: aggressive aesthetics + social confrontation (as with Nancy Mace) bring national attention, but can easily backfire—even internally.
  • Jessica recounts the story of Nancy Mace posting about a male constituent she perceived as a heckler:

    “When she posted it to her social media, she said that he was basically like a liberal maniac and that ... he was wearing Daisy Duke shorts ... it was clearly like a dog whistle about his masculinity ... I even found that shocking that she would do that.” – [15:39], Jessica Gross

No Cohesive Left-Wing Female Aesthetic

[16:38]

• Unlike MAGA women, there’s “no cohesive Democrat aesthetic.” The right uses stereotypes ("blue hair") but the left defaults to individualism and inclusivity.

  “I do think because they have such a narrow vision of appropriate femininity, so it is easier to have the trappings ... for liberals ... more individuality in terms of your fashion or gender expression, I guess.” – [17:12], Jessica Gross

Can the Trend Last?

[18:14]

• While the look + attitude can power quick platforms, audience fatigue is possible—viral hate-watching is not the same as genuine support.

  “There’s not necessarily a linear correlation between everybody seeing something and everybody supporting something.” – [18:36], Jessica Gross

  • Example: Carrie Lake in Arizona, who had the look and approach, but still lost her race.

Humorous Closing—Team Dewy or Matte?

[19:19]

• On personal preference for beauty trends:

  “I’m dewy. I just wanna look like a glazed donut all the time. Who doesn’t?” – [19:19], Jessica Gross

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On aesthetic signaling:
  “Before anything actually comes out of their mouths, you already have an idea of who they are and potentially what they stand for.” – Jessica Gross [03:43]
• On the irony of gender performance:
  “It all feels drag adjacent... it’s exaggerated. But I think part of that is also about knowing their audience.” – Jessica Gross [10:01]
• On influencer culture as conservative women’s empowerment:
  “...In a lot of conservative communities where women are not encouraged to have day jobs … influencing was the only way for them to have a real voice.” – Jessica Gross [10:50]
• On the challenge of a Democratic ‘look’:
  “I think there’d just be no way to do it and have it feel organic… It’s like why we keep having the discussion of, ‘Why isn’t there a liberal Joe Rogan?’” – Jessica Gross [17:56]
• On trend fatigue and hate-watching:
  “There’s not necessarily a linear correlation between everybody seeing something and everybody supporting something.” – Jessica Gross [18:36]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:09] — The MAGA Look, "Utah curls" and Republican makeup
• [03:43] — Aesthetic as political signaling and mainstream contrast
• [07:42] — Uniform as armor for women politicians
• [09:01] — Pageant history, Kardashian influence, and Trump's taste
• [09:46] — Hyper-femininity and exclusionary politics
• [10:50] — Influencing in conservative communities
• [12:33] — "Womanosphere" and adapting old roles for new platforms
• [14:09] — Virality: benefits and backlashes (Nancy Mace story)
• [16:38] — Why there’s no clear left-wing counterpart
• [18:36] — Trend longevity and audience fatigue

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Overall Tone & Flow

The conversation is witty, incisive, and self-aware, blending cultural analysis with political commentary. Gross and Ahmad engage critically but with humor, particularly in noting ironies and contradictions in both conservative and broader American gender politics.

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Summary prepared by Podcast AI
For listeners: This episode provides a nuanced primer on how appearance, influence, and gender expectation are wielded and weaponized in contemporary U.S. politics, both online and off.

Transcript

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[Ross Douthat]

Hey listeners, it's Ross. Interesting Times is on vacation this week, so I'm sharing a conversation from my opinion colleagues Meher Ahmad and Jessica Gross. They're chatting about the aesthetics of MAGA femininity, the distinctive look of figures like Kristi Noem and Nancy Mace, and the link between makeup and power in the Trump administration. It's a rich subject, to say the least. So take a listen and we'll be back after the holiday with a new episode of the show. And while you're waiting patiently, desperately, I'm hoping you can do me a favor. Check out and subscribe to my YouTube channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. See you soon.

[Jessica Gross]

Foreign.

[Meher Ahmad]

I'm Meher Ahmad. I'm an editor for New York Times. Opinion from right wing influencers to trad wives, there's an immediately recognizable aesthetic that's easy to clock. Let's call it MAGA beauty. It's visible everywhere from TikTok videos to white House press briefings. And for the women in Trump's world, that look often goes hand in hand with an aggressive approach to politics and power. But it didn't necessarily start with a gop. So to unpack the look and what it means, I'm joined by Jessica Gross. She's a writer for Opinion who covers family, education, religion and culture and she recently wrote a piece about this aesthetic for her newsletter. Jessica, thanks for joining me.

[Jessica Gross]

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

[Meher Ahmad]

So I guess to start, I wondered if you could describe what the conservative female aesthetic looks like.

[Jessica Gross]

So it starts with so called Utah curls and those were popularized by Mormon momfluencers. They are usually center parted curl. Okay, so this is what the hair.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Looks like after it's been curled. You can see the swoopy front pieces. They're not too crazy volumized. You can see the straight ends.

[Jessica Gross]

The makeup look is very heavy. It is flat and matte. As the influencer Suzanne Lambert told me she is a comedian and content creator who has made a number of incredibly funny tiktoks about what she calls Republican makeup.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Hey, I noticed that all of the Republican girlies in my comments do their makeup the exact same gorgeous way, so I thought that I would try to do it myself.

[Jessica Gross]

It is often cosmetically enhanced or appears to be cosmetically enhanced.

[Suzanne Lambert]

I wanted a really matte finish. It's giving drained, it's giving dusty. We want to make sure that it doesn't look like we've ever used moisturizer once in our life.

[Jessica Gross]

Often it is accessorized with big old crosses. So a big cross necklace or earrings. And the clothes are always form fitted, whether they are casual or corporate wear or cocktail dress.

[Meher Ahmad]

And how does it stand out to you? Like, I guess in a lot of ways, I feel as though what you've described is a little bit out of touch with the, like, mainstream of what beauty standards are currently, which is more dewy, minimalist, like a no makeup makeup, clean girl aesthetic. It kind of contrasts from it in a big way, right?

[Jessica Gross]

Well, I think it depends. I think there are a lot of influencers who are making money with that look. I would call it run off Kardashian. The Kardashians themselves have moved on from this look, this sort of heavily makeup, contoured look. And because algorithms run on homogeneity, I think having that look makes it easier to go viral because it's already saying, I am part of this particular team. And so before anything actually comes out of their mouths, you already have an idea of who they are and potentially what they stand for.

[Meher Ahmad]

It's like an aesthetic signal of their politics.

[Jessica Gross]

Right. And I mean, to be clear, we are all aesthetically signaling. I remember the New York Times style section ran an article about how all Brooklyn moms wear number six clogs. And I was like, you didn't need to call me out like that. Like, I'm not trying to say that I am any different. I am responding to my own sociological cues and the women who are around me and I'm sign we're all making aesthetic choices when we put ourselves out there. This is just sort of anthropologically looking at the types of choices that a lot of prominent female politicians in the MAGA universe are making.

[Meher Ahmad]

And who are those prominent politicians, like, who are the kind of, like, faces of aesthetic in the Trump White House in particular.

[Jessica Gross]

So Kristi Noem, who is the Secretary of Homeland Security, is sort of the most prominent and obvious choice just because she has contrasted that particular look with an incredibly brutal message, both visually and the words that are coming out of her mouth. So, you know, our colleague M. Gessen called this out as the image of the first hundred days of the Trump presidency was Christina standing in front of a jail full of mostly shirtless prisoners in El Salvador. She is heavily made up. She is wearing a $50,000 Rolex. And the contrast of the amount of care that went into her image against the brutality of these imprison was obviously an image that stays with many of us, but also Trump's press secretary, Carolyn Levitt and Nancy Mace, who is not in the Trump Cabinet or chosen by Trump, but she is a Republican congresswoman from South Carolina.

[Meher Ahmad]

Yeah. I wanted to kind of dig into that Kristi Noem moment a little bit further. You know, the contrast of her and her kind of like exaggerated glam with the men standing behind her in the prison. In a way, it's one of those things where I can't imagine the man version of it, where it's like, what's a man maga look like? So do you think part of this has to do with the fact that they're women and they're a kind of like, extra scrutiny on, like, how they appear because of the fact that they're women in politics?

[Jessica Gross]

I do think that is part of it. I think the image is more provocative because it's unusual. Right. I mean, although other women have obviously served in the role that Noem serves in, none have been outspoken or created so many press moments that she has chosen to create. However, I do think that the male version is probably Elon Musk. He is wearing the baseball cap like she's wearing. He's out here with the chainsaw. So I think that there is sort of a male version in the manga multiverse, but I don't think it would have been as indelible an image if there had been a male politician in the same role.

[Meher Ahmad]

Yeah. I was thinking back to the comment that Vivek Ramaswamy made about Nikki Haley's heels, and I remember that was that you had discussed as well. Her kind of comeback about it was like, it's not a fashion statement. It's for ammunition. And in a way, I'm interested in knowing what you think about the understanding that some of these women have about how they're perceived and, like, the kind of decision making that might go into how they look.

[Jessica Gross]

I think any woman who's in the public eye at all has to grapple with this. They will get comments based on their appearance, attacking their appearance in ways that male politicians never would. And So I think having a sort of uniform look, whatever that look may be like with Hillary Clinton as the pantsuit, that is a kind of armor. It's a kind of mask. It's a kind of way to prevent people from talking about what you look like if the way that you look is the same every time. And it is potentially a way to get the message across further. And so part of the argument that I make in the piece is that by using the sort of vernacular of influencers, it's something familiar to viewers of social media, and it helps them get their message across even further than they might have otherwise.

[Meher Ahmad]

Yeah. You've covered the intersection of politics and culture for a while now, and I was curious to know how you feel like the roots of the current conservative beauty trend might have come about, because, as you said, like, it's come kind of like from a Kardashian runoff. And I think this look in particular, the matte foundation and, like, over accentuated eyes, that's something that I feel like people associate with, like, 2016 makeup. So, like, I wonder why, if you've thought about, like, why it's become this look of conservatism in particular.

[Jessica Gross]

I think some of it is from Southern culture, from pageant culture. I think some of it is. It's Trump specifically his preferred look. I mean, he famously ran a beauty pageant, you know, so it is in some ways appealing to this audience of one, which is a prerequisite for this role. But I also think it is a way to hold themselves in opposition to people that they feel are not gender conforming. And so you see it with Nancy. She is often attacking trans women specifically and holding herself separate from them and saying, I'm a real woman. And so this sort of hyper feminine look, I think, is a way to communicate that as well.

[Meher Ahmad]

Yeah, I know. It's one of those things where I think it's kind of fascinating and ironic that a lot of the aesthetics of this are kind of like, playing up and performing gender in a way that, like, they're in a camp where they're like, this is what a true woman should look like.

[Jessica Gross]

Yeah, it all feels drag adjacent. So I don't know know what to say. I mean, it's the big fake eyelashes, like, they're really just. It's exaggerated. But I think part of that is also about knowing their audience. I think they consciously know that their images are going to be reproduced on social media. And I think just having things be sort of exaggerated looks better.

[Meher Ahmad]

Well, the other thing, I guess about the folks that are not in political power, more in the influencer side of it. You know, you wrote a little bit about the kind of like avenues to power and influencing for women and like how that kind of fits the mold of a more conservative viewpoint of what a woman should be, which is not in the highest positions of power. But influencing kind of provides this like alternative pathway to having influence.

[Jessica Gross]

Having influence. And so when I wrote my book about American motherhood, I have a chapter about social media and mom fluencing. And one of the major revelations of that chapter for me was that in a lot of conservative communities where women are not encouraged to have, you know, day jobs, to have any kind of corporate job outside the home, influencing was the only way for them to have a real voice and for them to make money while still fulfilling their communities perceived as their real role as wives and mothers. And so that's where a lot of paid influencing started, was in communities like that. And so I think it is still considered an acceptable way to make money because again, you can still look perfectly feminine in a way that is very conformist and in a very specific idea of beauty. And you're still at the whim of the algorithm and at the whim of the companies that are paying you for brand deals. So you're not ultimately the person who is making the decisions, but you're still making money in some way and you still have a kind of power, particularly over other women.

[Meher Ahmad]

Right, right. There's this term being used now, the womanosphere. It's like the woman version of the manospher. You wrote in your piece about Carolyn Leavitt and her kind of doing a video with a TikTok influencer, like a running influencer.

[Jessica Gross]

What is your roles and responsibilities at the White House?

[Suzanne Lambert]

Yeah, my job is to relay the President's message and his agenda and his.

[Meher Ahmad]

Views and feelings to the American people through the press.

[Jessica Gross]

What is the quote or motto that you live by?

[Suzanne Lambert]

God is within her, she will not fail.

[Meher Ahmad]

So it seems like these kind of, even the people in position in power and White House also kind of go hand in hand with the influencer womanisphere part of it as well.

[Jessica Gross]

Yeah, they have been incredibly smart about co opting these channels to get their message across. And it is sort of in some ways the female version of going on Joe Rogan, but it has a much smaller reach and there's a much greater backlash to it, I think, because if you look at the statistics, Gen Z women in particular are not conservative overwhelmingly. And so if you're trying to appeal to women, especially women under 30, being very conservative and emphasizing roles as wives and mothers isn't necessarily the way to do it. It's really interesting. I spent some time reading new conservative women's magazines. One is called Evie and one is called the Conservator. And one of them had an interview with Caroline Levitt, and it was praising her for basically taking no maternity leave. She spent very little time off the campaign trail. And like, look, I was someone who was eager to go back to work after maternity leave, so I have absolutely no judgment on, you know, the choices one makes around those things. But from a party that is emphasizing women's sort of natural, and you can't see me making air quotes over this podcast, roles as wives and mothers, it's really interesting to see them also really praising someone like Carolyn Levitt for not necessarily putting that first. So I think it's just they're working out how to graft their message onto a generation of women that has clearly moved forward in some profound way.

[Meher Ahmad]

Well, one of the things I wanted to talk to you about, you've written about how this look, combined with kind of an aggressive social media clips, often leads to virality. Right. And that can grow into a national platform. And so with Congresswoman Nancy Mace, like, she's considering a run for governor of South Carolina, it seems like this formula could either work really well for her or it could backfire. Just for our listeners, like, could you tell us a little bit more about that Nancy Mae story and what happened in the beauty store?

[Jessica Gross]

So she is a supporter of Donald J. Trump to the extent that on her TikTok, she has an entire library of videos that are titled DJT with a little American flag emoji. And we know exactly what happened because they were both filming. So the constituent asked sort of pointedly, when's your next town hall gonna be?

[Constituent in Nancy Mace story]

When are you gonna host a real town hall for the people?

[Jessica Gross]

Did you miss the 15 I had last year?

[Constituent in Nancy Mace story]

That wasn't the town. When are you gonna host one this year?

[Jessica Gross]

And it sort of escalates from there.

[Constituent in Nancy Mace story]

Are you gonna do any more this year? Are you gonna do. I'm asking if you're gonna have any more town halls this year? Any more that you're going to this year or not?

[Jessica Gross]

She then says to him, well, you know, I voted for gay marriage twice.

[Constituent in Nancy Mace story]

What does that have to do with me?

[Jessica Gross]

So I'm just. It has everything to do with you.

[Constituent in Nancy Mace story]

Do you think everything about me has to do with gay Mary?

[Suzanne Lambert]

I do, absolutely.

[Jessica Gross]

And she's clearly Sort of trying to point out to him that, like, it just, it's like, gets pretty ugly. Like, I don't want. I can't read her mind. I don't know what her intention was.

[Meher Ahmad]

There, but because he's a man in the beauty aisle. Yes, I see.

[Jessica Gross]

And he is, you know, I think, confirmed that he is gay. And then when she posted it to her social media, she, you know, said that he was basically like a liberal maniac and that, you know, he was wearing Daisy Duke shorts. And by the way, those shorts were not that short. But it was clearly like a dog whistle about his masculinity and it was not appropriate. I mean, the fact that an elected official, a congressperson, did that. I know that we have lost the capacity for, you know, disgust or shame or any of that, but I even found that shocking that she would do that. And so it can be sort of a turnoff even for people within your own camp. You've seen even in very, very red states, there can be a bridge too far in terms of the sort of rage baiting really out there, conservative behavior. So, you know, we'll have to wait and see.

[Meher Ahmad]

Well, one of the things your piece and kind of this discussion made me think about is the fact that there's not necessarily a cohesive Democrat aesthetic. You know what? I. I was thinking about how, like, the right often kind of uses, you know, mockingly the blue hairs as sort of describing, like, woke reactionaries, people who dye their hairs in crazy colors. But I wondered if you had any thoughts on, like, why it feels like the conservative aesthetic of a woman is so clear and clockable and why that hasn't really manifested in the left as much.

[Jessica Gross]

I do think because they have such a narrow vision of appropriate femininity, so it is easier to have the trappings. I think just it is more of a challenge for liberals to speak in a uniform style vernacular, because part of the liberal ethos is like, wear what you want or have more sort of individuality in terms of your fashion or gender expression, I guess.

[Meher Ahmad]

Should Democrats spend time trying to make a female mascot akin to Carolyn Levitt or Kristi Nomer? Do you think that's antithetical to what Democrats stand for? Is it not something that they should fight back with? Or do you think the fact that there's no alternative on their side is kind of a sign of what the party stands for?

[Jessica Gross]

I think there'd just be no way to do it and have it feel organic. It's like, why we keep having the discussion of why Isn't there a liberal Joe Rogan? It's like, well, he wasn't built in a lab. He gained that organic popularity and association with right wing ideas over time. And he doesn't just talk about politics.

[Meher Ahmad]

I mean, it's interesting to know that one thing about a lot of these social media platforms is that viral trends are fickle and they can change very quickly. Do you see, you know, in the near or long term future this kind of reward for this type of aesthetic or even kind of like political stance taking a turn? Do you think, like potentially audiences might tire from it?

[Jessica Gross]

I think they absolutely can. I mean, you see a TikTok has 7 million views. Well, you don't know how many of those are hate views or hate comments. And so there's not necessarily a linear correlation between everybody seeing something and everybody supporting something. And so it could really have a different outcome in terms of how people are voting. I mean, you saw this with Carrie Lake in Arizona, right? I would say that she has that sort of same aesthetic and that same really combative approach and she did not win in that state. So we'll see what happens. I can't predict the future. I do hope people tire of this because it is exhausting.

[Meher Ahmad]

And will you be buying matte or dewy foundation?

[Jessica Gross]

I'm dewy. I just wanna look like a glazed donut all the time. Who doesn't?

[Meher Ahmad]

Coastal Elite.

[Jessica Gross]

Coastal El Glazed donut. That's me.

[Meher Ahmad]

Jessica, thank you for joining me. It's been a lovely conversation.

[Jessica Gross]

Thanks so much for having me.

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