Podcast Summary: Matter of Opinion – “We’re More Secular Than Ever. How’s That Going?”

Podcast Information:

• Title: Matter of Opinion
• Host/Author: New York Times Opinion
• Participants: Michelle Cottle, Ross Douthat, Carlos Lozada
• Episode Title: We’re More Secular Than Ever. How’s That Going?
• Release Date: February 21, 2025
• Description: Hosted by Michelle Cottle, Ross Douthat, and Carlos Lozada, "Matter of Opinion" delves into a wide array of topics every Friday, from politics to pop culture, offering thoughtful and engaging discussions.

1. Introduction to the Episode

The episode kicks off with Michelle Cottle introducing Ross Douthat’s latest book, Why Everyone Should be Religious. Celebrating its release, the hosts set the stage for a deep dive into the current landscape of religious faith in America.

Notable Quote:

• Michelle Cottle [00:15]: “Ross wrote a book about all of this... a guide for the serious, rational and modern to embrace religious faith and recognize the supernatural.”

2. Ross Douthat’s “Why Everyone Should be Religious”

Ross Douthat elaborates on his book, presenting it as both an introduction to religion for the curious and a rational case for faith. He emphasizes the need to bridge the gap between modern secularism and religious belief, arguing that faith does not necessitate abandoning reason or scientific progress.

Notable Quotes:

• Ross Douthat [01:19]: “This book is an attempt to write into what I think is a very interesting religious moment in American life...”

• Ross Douthat [04:15]: “...the number of people who have described themselves as having no religious affiliation has stopped rising. And you do have a lot of, I would say, weird supernaturalist interests in American life.”

3. Current Religious Trends in America

The discussion shifts to the evolving religious landscape in the United States. Ross highlights the plateau in secularization, noting that the rise in religious disaffiliation has stalled. Concurrently, he observes a resurgence of interest in both traditional faiths and alternative spiritualities like astrology and psychedelics.

Notable Quotes:

• Ross Douthat [01:19]: “There is some evidence that the current wave of secularization has reached a limit.”

• Michelle Cottle [33:47]: “I still firmly believe in hell and the devil.”

4. From “Bad Religion” to “Believe”

Carlos Lozada draws a connection between Ross’s previous book, Bad Religion, and the current one, Believe. While Bad Religion critiqued the commodification and politicization of Christianity in America, Believe seeks to offer a hopeful perspective on finding genuine faith amidst modern skepticism.

Notable Quotes:

• Carlos Lozada [07:43]: “Is 'Believe' the new book in conversation with an extension of 'Bad Religion', your earlier book?”

• Ross Douthat [08:37]: “'Bad Religion' was written as a kind of critique of a culture that still seemed to some degree essentially Christian... 'Believe' is telling people this is in certain ways it's a very liberal book by my standards.”

5. Addressing Stumbling Blocks to Faith

The conversation delves into the major obstacles that deter individuals from embracing religious belief. Ross identifies three primary stumbling blocks:

1. The Problem of Evil: Questioning why a benevolent God allows suffering.
2. Malpractices of Religious Institutions: Criticizing the misconduct within religious organizations.
3. Religious Morality on Sexuality: Challenging traditional religious views on sex in modern society.

Notable Quotes:

• Michelle Cottle [11:09]: “...why do religious institutions do so many bad things? And then my favorite... why are traditional religions so hung up on sex?”

• Ross Douthat [14:27]: “...if there is a God, he can't be as good as the Jews and Christians...”

6. Personal Experiences with Faith

Each host shares their personal journey with religion, providing a nuanced perspective on how faith influences their lives despite institutional shortcomings.

Ross Douthat: Ross discusses his upbringing in the Catholic Church, balancing personal faith with institutional challenges, especially in light of the Catholic Church’s scandals.

Notable Quotes:

• Ross Douthat [21:27]: “The first thing I have to explain is another wave of sex abuse revelations. And I would say that that substantially changed my relationship to and confidence in the Catholic Church as an institution.”

Carlos Lozada: Carlos recounts his deep-rooted connection to Catholicism, influenced by his family's legacy and personal experiences within the Church, highlighting the diversity within religious practice.

Notable Quotes:

• Carlos Lozada [26:54]: “My great uncle, Alcide Mendoza, was the youngest bishop at the second Vatican Council.”

• Carlos Lozada [33:47]: “...faith religion has been that. For me, there's moments in my life when I'm not entirely sold on them, but it's something I'm never going to shed.”

Michelle Cottle: Michelle shares her tumultuous relationship with organized religion, transitioning from Southern Baptist to Methodist, and her ongoing quest for spiritual meaning despite past traumas.

Notable Quotes:

• Michelle Cottle [30:31]: “...I've shifted to the Methodist church. But broadly speaking, evangelicalism's call to belief started to feel a lot to me, like smugly non disprovable.”

7. Religion in a Pluralistic Society

The hosts explore the challenges religions face in maintaining core doctrines while adapting to a diverse and pluralistic society. Ross emphasizes the difficulty for religions to remain true to their beliefs without becoming exclusionary, highlighting the delicate balance they must strike to remain relevant and inclusive.

Notable Quotes:

• Ross Douthat [15:46]: “...any religion needs to take its own truth claims seriously. You can't just be seeker sensitive all the way down.”

• Ross Douthat [19:02]: “It's a big challenge for religions to figure out how they can simultaneously not just exist... but also not shed and dissolve the core teachings that actually hold people in those faiths.”

8. Pop Culture and Religious Themes

Ross recommends the Apple TV show Severance, drawing parallels between its themes and religious disillusionment. The show’s exploration of identity and control mirrors the existential questions religions grapple with in contemporary society.

Notable Quotes:

• Ross Douthat [38:30]: “One other thing that happens in an age of sort of religious disillusionment is people can believe in a kind of gnostic cosmology...”

• Michelle Cottle [40:30]: “It's creepy, I find. It's got a vibe that I don't.”

9. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reiterate the importance of understanding and engaging with religion thoughtfully. They encourage listeners to explore faith not just as an inherited tradition but as a meaningful, reasoned choice that can coexist with modern values and scientific understanding.

Notable Quotes:

• Ross Douthat [37:50]: “...God is not as hidden, I think, as it sometimes may seem...”

• Michelle Cottle [42:40]: “Thanks for joining our conversation. Give Matter of Opinion a follow on your favorite podcast app and leave us a nice review while you're there to let other people know why they should listen.”

Key Takeaways:

• Bridging Secular and Religious Thought: Ross Douthat's Why Everyone Should be Religious attempts to reconcile modern secularism with traditional faith, advocating for a rational basis for belief.

• Evolving Religious Landscape: The plateau in secularization and the resurgence of both traditional and alternative spiritualities indicate a complex shift in American religiosity.

• Overcoming Barriers to Faith: Addressing the problem of evil, institutional misconduct, and outdated moral stances are crucial for fostering genuine religious belief in modern society.

• Personal Narratives: The hosts' personal experiences underscore the varied and deeply personal nature of faith, highlighting both its comforts and challenges.

• Pluralism and Inclusivity: Religions must navigate the delicate balance between maintaining core doctrines and adapting to a diverse, pluralistic societal framework.

This episode of "Matter of Opinion" offers a comprehensive exploration of the current state of religiosity in America, blending intellectual discourse with personal anecdotes to provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of faith's role in contemporary life.