Podcast Summary: Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

Episode Title: Why Trump’s Blood-and-Guts Strategy Worked
Release Date: July 3, 2025
Hosts: Ross Douthat and Reihan Salam
Publisher: New York Times Opinion

Introduction: Revisiting Past Conversations

In this episode of Interesting Times with Ross Douthat, host Ross Douthat reconnects with his long-time collaborator, Reihan Salam, to dissect the unexpected success of Donald Trump's populist strategy within the Republican Party. Reflecting on their previous work, particularly their book Grand New Party, Ross and Reihan explore how their early predictions about transforming the GOP align or diverge from the reality shaped by Trump’s rise.

“Back in November, after Donald Trump's victory, I wanted to understand not just how he won, but how he had transformed the Republican Party…” (00:31)

Origins of Collaboration and the Grand New Party Thesis

Ross and Reihan reminisce about their initial collaboration during the early 2000s, a time when Washington D.C. was predominantly focused on foreign policy post-9/11. They sought to carve out a niche by emphasizing domestic policy, an area often overlooked by their contemporaries. This groundwork laid the foundation for their book, Grand New Party, where they envisioned a revitalized Republican coalition encompassing multiracial, blue-collar Americans.

“We both came to conservatism through a kind of winding path… but both being at an angle to movement conservatism” (04:18)

The Republican Coalition Pre-Trump

The discussion delves into the state of the Republican Party before Trump, highlighting its roots in the Reagan-era coalition that combined social conservatism, hawkish foreign policy, and free-market economics. Ross and Reihan identified an unfinished realignment where non-college-educated voters had the potential to shift more firmly into the GOP’s fold, but the party struggled to solidify this broadened base.

“The Republican Party... was organized famously around some combination of social and religious conservatism, foreign policy, hawkishness, and free market economics.” (07:50)

The Rise of Donald Trump: An Unexpected Turn

Trump’s emergence as the face of blue-collar populism took Ross and Reihan by surprise. Initially, they had envisioned leaders like Marco Rubio or Rudy Giuliani who could modernize the GOP without alienating traditional conservative bases. However, Trump’s approach was markedly different—more demagogic and ethnically charged, yet effectively rallying a significant portion of the working-class voter base.

“Donald Trump made an argument... we decide that we're gonna put Americans first.” (20:38)

Analyzing Trump’s Strategy and Its Impact

Ross articulates how Trump’s strategy diverged from their Grand New Party vision by intertwining economic discontent with a strong anti-immigration and protectionist stance. While this approach successfully mobilized a segment of the working class, it failed to create a cohesive, positive policy agenda that could sustain long-term Republican growth.

“Trump just blew it up bigger in the way that you describe. He folded in the entire post 1991 globalization push.” (23:30)

Reihan adds that Trump’s focus on immigration acted as a symbol for broader frustrations, enabling him to position himself as the champion against a perceived elite disconnect. However, this also led to internal conflicts within the GOP, as different factions vied for influence without a unifying policy framework.

“He put it together... but it was a very strange moment for both of us…” (26:50)

The First Trump Presidency: Missed Opportunities

The conversation highlights missed opportunities during Trump’s first term to develop a forward-looking economic policy. Instead of capitalizing on the realignment they had hoped for, the administration remained reactive, focusing on short-term gains like tax cuts without addressing deeper structural issues affecting the working class.

“There was potency in that story and that it would have helped Rudy Giuliani in 2012, it would have helped Marco Rubio in 2016…” (16:31)

Evolving Perspectives: From Policy to Cultural Healing

Reihan shares his evolving view that the Republican Party’s healing lies more in cultural change rather than extensive government intervention. Emphasizing values, community, and family support, he argues for a pluralistic approach that fosters human flourishing without over-reliance on government programs.

“You need to create the conditions so that we can actually build these really families or networks of families or community.” (43:38)

Ross concurs, suggesting that while economic policies remain crucial, the sustainability of the Republican coalition depends on presenting a clear, positive vision that goes beyond merely opposing the left.

“Is a political coalition that aspires to run the United States of America for an extended period of time… needs a basic economic agenda that says, here's how we're on your side, middle America.” (51:00)

Looking Forward: The Future of the GOP

As they ponder the future, Ross and Reihan acknowledge the complexities introduced by geopolitical challenges, particularly the economic competition with China. They speculate on whether a potential second Trump presidency could reconcile the need for a robust economic strategy with the cultural underpinnings necessary for maintaining a broad coalition.

“...perhaps what happened in Trump's presidency was that briefly the 1970s did come back and so the Republican coalition could expand to include blue collar Hispanics and all of these extra voters without having some dramatic shift in agenda of the kind we'd imagined.” (32:21)

Conclusion: Navigating a New Political Landscape

The episode concludes with reflections on how both the Republican and Democratic parties must navigate a transformed political landscape. Ross and Reihan emphasize the necessity of developing a robust, positive policy framework that can sustain a diverse coalition, moving beyond reactionary politics to offer genuine solutions for middle America.

“Is there some positive case here? Is there something that is dynamic and real and substantive that can fill this vacuum?” (35:45)

Notable Quotes:

• “There is a place for smart social policy. But the lodestar is what can dollars and cents accomplish versus what can creating room for the cultural forces that we want to see thrive.” — Reihan Salam (47:15)

• “Trumpism as a kind of dark mirror universe version of Grand New Party, where he was making a pitch to the kind of voters we wanted the Republican Party to make a pitch to.” — Ross Douthat (24:42)

• “We were actively fantasizing like lunatics about who is the person who could actually break that and change that.” — Reihan Salam (11:46)

• “The biggest ambitious version... that was humbling for me.” — Reihan Salam (47:39)

• “You need the be highly effective, capable and competent within its domain to create the conditions so that we can actually build these really families or networks of families or community.” — Reihan Salam (43:38)

Final Thoughts

Ross and Reihan wrap up the episode by acknowledging the ongoing challenges and potential paths forward for the Republican Party. They leave listeners contemplating whether a synthesis of positive policy agendas and cultural values can forge a durable and inclusive coalition capable of addressing the multifaceted issues facing America today.

“But I don't know, I'm not just not sure. I don't think that the second Trump presidency… here's how Republican policymaking looks like and here's how it helps you.” — Ross Douthat (51:00)

Timestamp Key:

• Clickable timestamps (e.g., 00:31) are placeholders and would normally link to specific parts of the podcast audio for easy reference.