Summary of "Why Trump’s Immigration Crackdown Defines the Right" – Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

Release Date: June 12, 2025

In the June 12, 2025 episode of "Interesting Times with Ross Douthat," host Ross Douthat delves into the transformative impact of former President Donald Trump's immigration policies on the modern American conservative movement. Joining him for this insightful discussion is Matthew Continetti, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and author of the acclaimed book "The Hundred Year War for American Conservatism." Their conversation meticulously explores the reshaping of the Republican Party, the emergence of the "tech right," and the enduring legacy of Trumpism within the broader spectrum of American conservatism.

1. The Tech Right and Elon Musk’s Departure

Douthat initiates the discussion by examining the recent schism between Elon Musk and the Trump administration, highlighting Musk's symbolic role within the "tech right" coalition. Continetti elaborates on the multifaceted nature of this group, emphasizing Musk's alignment with both libertarian ideals and populist conservatism:

“He shares with the tech right a vision of dynamism, a vision of technological progress, a sense that the federal government under Biden in particular was too heavy handed in its regulation of key technologies.”
—Matthew Continetti [04:25]

Musk's advocacy for technological advancement, exemplified by his aspirations for space colonization and critiques of "Wokeism," positioned him as a pivotal figure. However, his approach to federal budget deficits and personnel cuts in his role at Doge (the hypothetical governmental initiative discussed) demonstrated a blend of libertarian economic principles and Trumpian populism:

“He is always trying to cut personnel because he thinks that cutting is the only way you'll find out what's actually necessary.”
—Matthew Continetti [06:36]

Despite Musk's departure, Continetti asserts that the "tech right" remains influential, driven by desires for deregulation in areas like AI, crypto, and nuclear energy, alongside a cultural pushback against progressive ideologies.

2. Republican Economic Policy and the "One Big Beautiful Bill"

The conversation shifts to fiscal policy, specifically the recent "One Big Beautiful Bill," a reconciliation package that encapsulates the hybrid nature of contemporary Republican economic strategies. Continetti contrasts this with pre-Trump Republican policies, noting:

“The reconciliation bill... is another example of Trump's marketing genius. But it really is, I think, kind of writing into law the Trump view of so many issues that have been dominant in American politics now for a decade.”
—Matthew Continetti [12:48]

This legislation maintains existing tax rates while introducing populist tax breaks targeting lower and middle-income brackets, diverging from traditional conservative tax policies that favored upper-income benefits. The inclusion of expanded child tax credits and other targeted fiscal measures underscores Trump's appeal to a broader, more diverse Republican base.

3. Trump’s Foreign Policy and Historical Conservatism

Continetti draws parallels between Trump’s foreign policy and pre-World War II American conservatism, revealing a continuity often overlooked in contemporary analyses:

“If you actually went back before World War II, you saw that the American right then closely resembles the American right now along those three axes of immigration, trade, and foreign policy.”
—Matthew Continetti [20:25]

Trump’s "America First" stance and non-interventionist approach reflect earlier conservative movements' emphasis on sovereignty and cautious engagement abroad, distinguishing his administration from the post-war, anti-communist conservatism that previously defined the GOP.

4. Immigration as the Core of Modern Conservatism

A central theme of the episode is the elevation of immigration issues within the Republican agenda. Continetti emphasizes that Trump’s focus on immigration has irrevocably altered the party’s identity:

“MAGA came from opposition to the Republican Party's approach to immigration. Trump makes immigration his signature issue. He wins. The transformation is total.”
—Matthew Continetti [28:00]

This transformation is further solidified by aggressive policies aimed at securing the southern border and deporting illegal immigrants, actions that resonate deeply with the conservative base and redefine the GOP’s stance on national security and identity.

5. Internal Factions and the Future of the Republican Party

The dialogue explores the internal dynamics within the Republican Party, highlighting the tension between traditional conservatives and the populist elements championed by Trump. Continetti speculates on the party's trajectory post-Trump, questioning the sustainability of the "new right" without his leadership:

“I sometimes wonder, without Trump, without his personality, his charisma, his gargantuan power within the Republican Party, where will this new right be?”
—Matthew Continetti [26:36]

He suggests that while the ideological shifts initiated by Trump are likely to endure, the absence of his dominant presence could lead to fragmentation and reduced cohesion within the party’s conservative factions.

6. Authoritarianism Debate

Addressing critiques that view Trump’s rise as a step towards authoritarianism, Continetti counters by asserting the resilience of American political institutions:

“I don't see us turning into even a soft, authoritarian society. I think one lesson of the Trump era... is that the guardrails do remain in place.”
—Matthew Continetti [42:19]

He acknowledges Trump's authoritarian impulses but maintains that democratic institutions and societal norms will ultimately safeguard against a full descent into authoritarianism.

7. Legal vs. Illegal Immigration

The episode differentiates between stances on legal and illegal immigration within the Republican coalition. While illegal immigration remains fiercely opposed, legal immigration policies exhibit more ambiguity:

“Legal migration, that is still kind of up in the air, not only in Congress, but also, I think, within the administration.”
—Matthew Continetti [39:45]

This distinction allows for a nuanced approach within the party, accommodating pro-business immigration supporters who favor skilled immigration, even as the broader base demands stringent controls on illegal immigration.

8. Conclusion: Enduring Impact of Trumpism

In wrapping up, Continetti underscores that the ideological shifts promulgated during Trump’s tenure are likely to persist beyond his direct influence, shaping the future contours of American conservatism:

“The ideas will outlast Trump. So they're important in that regard.”
—Matthew Continetti [42:19]

Ross Douthat concludes on an optimistic note, suggesting that despite the significant changes, America will retain its recognizable political identity, even as internal battles and policy debates continue to evolve.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• “He shares with the tech right a vision of dynamism, a vision of technological progress...”
  —Matthew Continetti [04:25]

• “MAGA came from opposition to the Republican Party's approach to immigration...”
  —Matthew Continetti [28:00]

• “If you actually went back before World War II, you saw that the American right then closely resembles the American right now...”
  —Matthew Continetti [20:25]

• “Legal migration, that is still kind of up in the air...”
  —Matthew Continetti [39:45]

• “The ideas will outlast Trump. So they're important in that regard.”
  —Matthew Continetti [42:19]

This episode of "Interesting Times with Ross Douthat" offers a comprehensive analysis of how Trump's immigration crackdown has indelibly shaped the Republican Party and redefined the landscape of American conservatism. Through insightful dialogue with Matthew Continetti, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the interplay between populist movements, technological influences, and enduring conservative principles that continue to influence U.S. politics.