Podcast Summary: “Will It Ever Be Cool to Be Conservative?”

Podcast: Interesting Times with Ross Douthat
Host: New York Times Opinion
Guests: John Caramanica (NYT pop music critic), Joe Coscarelli (NYT pop music reporter), Ross Douthat (NYT opinion columnist & podcast host)
Date: December 18, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode is a crossover with Popcast, focusing on a provocative question: “Will it ever be cool to be conservative?” As pop culture and politics increasingly intermingle—especially in the Trump era—the hosts and guest Ross Douthat probe how conservatism is depicted, coded, and received in today’s music, Hollywood, and comedy scenes. The discussion orbits recent cultural flashpoints (Taylor Swift, Sydney Sweeney), the ongoing political realignment, and celebrities’ complicated relationships with ideology and image.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Framing the Question: Celebrity, Politics, and Pop Culture

• Intro (03:00): The conversation sets out to interrogate whether celebrities can plausibly be openly conservative, and what "conservatism" even looks like in pop culture.
• As culture shifts, younger audiences, streaming, and social fragmentation have all changed the old liberal consensus of Hollywood and music.
• Quote: “Can a celebrity be conservative? This is something that we talk about and we allude to... but we determined it was time for a real episode.”
  — John Caramanica (01:49)

2. The Era of Cultural Consolidation and Fragmentation

• Ross Douthat (07:43): Describes the 2010s as an era of consolidated, “woke” culture, where only a handful of studios & tech companies set the tone.
  • This created a “party line” many had to follow—or risk being canceled.
  • Now, fragmentation reigns: “Anything goes in politics,” with podcasts and outsider media thriving.
• Quote: “People who would have been on the left in the 1990s suddenly are on the right because to be on the right is to be against scolding and party lines and litmus tests.”
  — Ross Douthat (08:55)

3. Sydney Sweeney & Taylor Swift: Coded Conservatism?

• Sydney Sweeney Case Study (13:38): Sweeney embodies a lightning rod dynamic: starring in films coded both left and right, ambiguous branding, family rumors of MAGA ties.
  • Her “I just love jeans” response to politicized questions becomes a meme for apoliticism—or quiet resistance to progressive pieties.
  • Much right-wing attention appears to be projection due to her all-American star persona.
  • Quote: “You can be a celebrity without performing progressivism in certain ways. And that is a change.”
    — Ross Douthat (11:02)
• Taylor Swift’s “Life of a Showgirl” (17:00): Her openly romantic, heteronormative lyrics in the new album are read by many critics as a “right-moving” stance compared to the industry norm.
  • The group discusses double standards around gender: female stars have their domesticity or conventional relationships coded as right-wing; male stars (e.g., Austin Butler) are rarely politicized this way.
  • Quote: “To be America’s most famous female celebrity and sing a bunch of songs that are pro suburban domesticity... does code as right wing.”
    — Ross Douthat (17:29)

4. Coolness, Conservatism, and the Lame Factor

• Why Don’t Celebrities ‘Come Out’ as Conservative? (26:51):
  • Open conservatism is still widely perceived as “lame.” Even right-adjacent comedians, podcasters, or actors avoid explicit political labels.
  • “It might be easier to say, ‘I’m pro-Trump’ than ‘I’m a Republican.’” (28:15)
  • John predicts the next generation may break this mold as YouTube and podcast culture normalize alternative political postures.

5. Trumpism, Rap, and New Coalitions

• NBA YoungBoy & Rap’s Trump Moment (30:24):
  • Trump’s outreach to young rappers in legal trouble is reframing right-wing politics as “cool” among demographics that once would have shunned it.
  • NBA YoungBoy’s tour, pardoned by Trump, is cited as “the defining rap tour” of the year, the tour named “Make America Slime Again,” with lyrics and visuals embracing Trump.
  • Quote: “Nobody’s cooler in America to young people, especially young black people... than NBA YoungBoy. He’s not out here saying I’m a Republican or I’m conservative. He’s saying Trump, that’s my guy.”
    — Joe Coscarelli (31:19)
• Connection drawn to the “transactional” aspect of pardons and visibility in youth culture, with contrast to a lack of excitement around establishment Republicans (DeSantis, Rubio) post-Trump.

6. Cultural Transgression, Gender, and Political Coding

• Women Penalized for Ambiguity, Men Rewarded for It (18:12):
  • Female celebrities attract political projection; traditional or ambiguous presentation coded as right-wing.
  • Men (actors, rappers, etc.) typically evade this scrutiny, suggesting a gendered double standard in pop culture’s political interpretations.
  • Rise of “right-wing cool”: to be outside progressive orthodoxy is increasingly a badge of authenticity or rebellion.

7. The Dasha Nekrasova/Red Scare Controversy (41:27)

• Nekrasova (Red Scare) “cancelled” after hosting Nick Fuentes: The group dissects how the “lines” of acceptable edgelord behavior are still enforced in Hollywood, even amid greater overall fluidity.
  • Discussion of the blurry line between “offending to offend” (comedy, edgy art) and actual political advocacy for harmful ideologies.
  • Quote: “There’s a big difference between saying offensive things to be offensive… and saying offensive things as part of a concrete agenda.”
    — Ross Douthat (48:43)

8. Art, Offense, and Political Consequences

• Reflection on the independence of art versus agitprop; the importance of ambiguity and multiple readings for truly “great” art.
• Example: South Park lampooning the Catholic Church in ways that would be taboo regarding other groups—but as Douthat notes, he separates satire from outright advocacy for persecution. (52:15)
• Conversation around the rehabilitation/cancellation cycles for figures like Mel Gibson, Kanye West, and Clint Eastwood—pointing to art’s staying power over ideology.

9. The Talent Gap and Alternative Institutions

• Conservative Pop Culture’s Weak Bench (59:25):
  • When tasked with counter-programming against a Bad Bunny Super Bowl moment, the right lacks artists of similar stature; attempts to counter with Morgan Wallen, Kiss, or Gloria Gaynor feel diminished.
  • “To win culturally, the right needs true institutional power... not just marginal alternatives or protest events.”
    — Paraphrased from Ross Douthat (62:52)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “Party Line” Era:
  “We got rid of the old right wing puritans and now we've got the left wing puritans.”
  — Ross Douthat (08:47)

• On Taylor Swift’s New Album:
  “To be America’s most famous female celebrity and sing a bunch of songs that are like pro suburban domesticity and pro Chad, football player fiancé... yeah, it does code as right wing.”
  — Ross Douthat (17:27)

• On Celebrity Conservatism as ‘Lame’:
  “Being an overtly conservative celebrity is still lame, don't you think?”
  — Ross Douthat (27:22)

• On the NBA YoungBoy/Trump Alliance:
  “Trump becomes the ‘free so-and-so’ candidate, and his politics by extension become the ‘free so-and-so’ politics.”
  — John Caramanica (32:04)

• On the Right-Wing Cool Factor & Art:
  “If great art interacts with politics... ideally, you shouldn’t be able to fully tell. It should be open for interpretation because reality... has components that vindicate the left and components that vindicate the right.”
  — Ross Douthat (64:49)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:33 – Ross Douthat introduces the crossover and key themes.
• 07:43 – Douthat’s analysis of cultural consolidation → fragmentation.
• 11:02 – Sydney Sweeney, memeification, and “doing jeans ads.”
• 17:00 – Taylor Swift’s new vibe and the politics of heteronormativity.
• 26:51 – Why being openly conservative remains “lame.”
• 30:24 – Trump, NBA YoungBoy, and right-wing cred in rap music.
• 41:27 – Dasha Nekrasova, Red Scare, and the politics/edgelord line.
• 48:43 – Differences between “offensive for offense’s sake” vs. agenda-driven politics.
• 59:25 – The lack of big conservative cultural stars: the Super Bowl dilemma.
• 64:49 – Douthat’s fundamental belief in artistic ambiguity.
• 67:01–68:56 – Lighthearted snack-tasting and closing banter.

Tone & Takeaways

The episode is conversational, witty, and self-aware, mixing sharp media criticism with pop culture gossip and a dash of humility. Ross Douthat’s blend of political seriousness and pop culture fascination is matched by the Popcast hosts’ expertise in hip, online cultural trends.

Main takeaway:
While the boundaries between politics and pop culture have eroded—and right-coded “rebellion” has never seemed more marketable—there are still steep reputational and institutional barriers that keep most stars from openly identifying as conservative. For now, “being a conservative celebrity” is still coded as “lame”—and true mainstream cool belongs elsewhere, at least until the next generational shift.

Further Listening

For Ross Douthat’s continued reflections on culture and politics, subscribe to "Interesting Times with Ross Douthat." For more pop culture analysis, check out "Popcast" (NYT).

Ads, snack test, and outro not summarized.