GOP: Guardians of Pedophiles

Summary

Podcast Summary: I've Had It

Episode: GOP: Guardians of Pedophiles
Hosts: Jennifer Welch & Angie “Pumps” Sullivan
Guest: Rick Wilson (The Lincoln Project)
Date: November 13, 2025

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Overview

This episode of I've Had It dives deeply into the state of the modern Republican Party, the failures and frustrations of Democratic messaging, and the larger existential threats facing American democracy. Joining Jennifer and Angie is Rick Wilson, co-founder of The Lincoln Project and ex-Republican strategist, for a raw, hilarious, and often scathing look at party politics, media complicity, populism, and what it will take to push back against authoritarian creep.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Grievances and Pet Peeves

[02:01 – 04:00]

• Angie vents about insincere, overlong emails where people butter her up before asking for something, preferring directness instead.

  “Don’t piss down my leg and tell me it’s raining… Just be straight up.” — Angie [02:01]

• Jennifer admits a “twatty” moment at a Tame Impala concert: She accidentally occupies someone else’s seat, grills another concert-goer, then realizes she was the problem (not the other way around).

  “I wanted to watch the show, and I wanted to secure the seat for our friend. … As I’m sitting there and I can’t enjoy the second song because I’m really brow beating myself: ‘Why do you have to be such a twat?’” — Jennifer [07:34]

• The group collectively mourns the lack of drink lids at arenas and the prevalence of spilled drinks, leading to a hilarious discussion about “liquidity safety.”

2. Elevator Door Buttons and Psychological Torture

[14:10 – 16:00]

• Kylie brings up the news that most elevator “close door” buttons have been deactivated for decades for accessibility reasons; the hosts react with mock outrage.

  “This is psychological torture. … This is your way back into the legal profession with a class action lawsuit for mass fraud.” — Jennifer [14:55]

3. Welcoming Rick Wilson: The Lincoln Project & Leaving the GOP

[20:32 – 24:25]

• Rick explains how he and most of the Lincoln Project founders are ex-Republicans disillusioned by the party’s turn towards authoritarianism.
• Rick references working for George H. W. Bush (“the smart one”), describes the era when being rude got you fired, and sharply contrasts this with today’s GOP.

4. GOP Authoritarianism vs. Democratic “Pick Me” Politics

[23:00 – 26:31]

• Rick declares his central frustration: The false equivalence in media coverage suggesting Democrats and Republicans are mirror images.

  “One of these parties… is an authoritarian fascist party… and that’s the Republican party. I’m done with it. … Democrats, and the media too, too often goes, ‘Well, the Democrats and Republicans are just two sides of the same…’ They’re not.” — Rick [23:00]

• Jennifer and Rick both criticize “corporate media” for bending toward Trump and failing to hold the right accountable.

  “I don’t want to hear any sh*t from conservatives going, ‘Oh, the liberal media—where?’” — Rick [25:25]

5. Mainstreaming Trump’s Decline and Media Complicity

[27:08 – 28:43]

• Angie and Jennifer highlight the double standard in coverage of Biden’s and Trump’s cognitive slips.

  “Trump slurs… He makes no sense. … Not: ‘Rambling Trump made no sense in dementia-ridden press conference.’ What’s that about?” — Angie [27:10]

• Rick: “Donald Trump’s physical and mental collapse is right in our faces every damn day… He is a guy who is physically and mentally knocking on death’s door loudly. And we’re ignoring it as a country.” [27:21]

6. MAGA Populists Are Sensing Trump’s End

[28:59 – 31:38]

• Jennifer: Savvy MAGA figures (MTG, Tucker, Ted Cruz) are quietly building post-Trump brands, noticing Trump’s decline.
• Rick: Some recognize Trump will pass eventually, but they’re lost about what comes next. Anti-semitism, economic populism, and shallow talking points are on the rise among them.

  “There’s a part of it that is wildly anti-Semitic. … They don’t know how to make it viable again without him on the ballot.” — Rick [30:19]

7. Democratic Leadership and the Need for Aggression

[33:27 – 38:44]

• Jennifer and Rick share exasperation over Democrats’ lack of public, aggressive messaging and “pick me politics.”

  “They are playing two different games. The Republicans and the Democrats are playing two different games.” — Jennifer [33:50] “Democrats need to show America they’ve got some fight in them. … Go in and punch bad people in the face over and over again.” — Rick [35:26]

• Rick recounts a conversation with Harry Reid: True Senate leaders (Reid, LBJ, McConnell) all were ruthless planners; “that is not Chuck Schumer.”
• “Pick me” politics, focus-grouped statements, and vanilla messaging are panned as unpersuasive and counterproductive.

8. The 2026 Elections & Voter Trends

[39:04 – 42:03]

• Rick is not alarmist about some GOP moves (like ending the filibuster), gives insight on redistricting, and notes that Trump’s unpopularity is a drag on all Republicans.
• He observes that moderate Republicans are very much crossing over to support reasonable Democrats, especially in key states.

9. Democrats’ Messaging Fails: Economy & Privatization

[42:03 – 48:57]

• Jennifer slams the myth of Republican economic competency and urges Democrats to directly message how GOP “trickle-down” policies and privatization harm average Americans.

  “There is not ONE big red city that’s an economic hub… Democrats need to start doing this and it makes me crazy that they’re playing patty cake at the, at Congress talking about stupid sh*t.” — Jennifer [43:28]

• Rick links the issue to messaging style: Democrats too often rely on esoteric policy papers rather than direct, populist language.

  “Marjorie Taylor Greene is craftier than people are giving her credit for.… Democrats for too long come out with policy papers… People don’t need all that nuance and back-of-the-room think-tank bullshit. They want to hear real talk.” — Rick [44:12, 45:32]

10. Populist Language & the Role of Villains

[47:31 – 48:57]

• Rick: Democrats have an abundance of appealing villains to run against (big banks, big pharma, corrupt billionaires), but don’t tell a clear, compelling story.

  “There’s a classic American fight of, of, of small against big. Americans were always the small against the big.… They’ve got a cast of villains to run against now.” — Rick [47:31]

11. The Dangers of Privatization & Need for Government Defense

[48:57 – 51:28]

• Jennifer: Privatization results in profit-seeking negligence—in airlines, pharma, and industry. Dems don’t sell how government protections save lives.

  “Every time it’s for profit, look no further than the pharmaceutical industry, the fertilizer industry, … they’re going to dick you over and they don’t give a sh*t if you or somebody you love dies. But the government does.” — Jennifer [49:01]

• Rick: Americans want “smaller, smarter, better” government, not just “less.” He outlines post-war examples (“During WWII, we provided childcare”) as proof government can work for people.

12. Holding Republicans to Account

[52:27 – 53:39]

• Jennifer pushes for Democrats to call out Christian nationalist hypocrisy and to brand the GOP as “pedophile protectors” when appropriate.
• The power of ridicule, directness, and plainspoken attacks is lauded.

13. Political Strategy, Happy Warriors, and Zoran’s Campaign

[55:40 – 59:02]

• Rick highly praises Zoran’s disciplined, affordability-focused campaign in NYC and his “happy warrior” persona.

  “…His campaign, just from a technical perspective, was brilliant.… The affordability and economics cuts across every ideological boundary right now.” — Rick [55:47]

• Discusses the value of politicians being “happy warriors”—Reagan, Clinton, Obama, Bush—as the best communicators.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “One of these parties... is an authoritarian fascist party...and that’s the Republican party. I’m done with it.” — Rick Wilson [23:00]
• “Trump’s physical and mental collapse is right in our faces every damn day. ...He is a guy who is physically and mentally knocking on death’s door loudly. And we’re ignoring it as a country.” — Rick Wilson [27:25]
• “Marjorie Taylor Greene is craftier than people are giving her credit for. ...Crafty in politics is a good thing.” — Rick Wilson [44:12]
• “If you try to be a pick me politician, you’re going to be milquetoast. Nobody’s going to like you, nobody’s going to dislike you, they’re not going to have a strong opinion about you at all.” — Jennifer [35:45]
• “People want a government that’s Smaller, smarter, and better. ...The Democrats could run on those three things.” — Rick Wilson [50:23]
• “I absolutely refuse to give [America] up to this petty tyrant and his scuzzy little minions and this grotesque movement that they think is going to replace the republic and American democracy—just won’t do it.” — Rick Wilson [70:43]
• “Make me Democratic chair for a week. I will change the entire party. It will not be pretty, but it will be fun.” — Rick Wilson [63:29]

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Fun Segments: “Had it or Hit it”

[63:04 – 70:43]

• Internet trolls: Rick “hits it”—understands they're evidence the other side is angry and he’s doing his job.
• Florida: Rick (fifth-generation Floridian) has “had it”—hates what politics and overdevelopment have wrought.
• DeSantis: Staff “must hate him”—“He’s dead but too dumb to lay down.”
• Trump’s ballroom: Had it—calls Trump’s destruction of the East Wing an “obscenity.”
• USA: “Hit it”—Rick’s not giving up, he’ll “keep fighting for this place” [70:43].

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Closing Thoughts

The episode is riotously funny, brutally honest, and deeply concerned about the current and future state of both major political parties—but especially the GOP’s authoritarian drift. Rick Wilson’s insights are incisive and sharp, calling for Democrats to abandon tepid messaging and embrace authenticity, populism, and righteous ridicule. The show ends with calls to action, book plugs, and a spirit of fighting for democracy—with humor and plenty of cursing along the way.

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Table of Key Timestamps

| Segment | Time | |------------------------------------------|--------------| | Insincere requests, concert mishap | 02:01–09:03 | | Elevator door button revelation | 14:10–16:00 | | Rick Wilson joins | 20:32 | | Authoritarian GOP vs. Dems (“pick me”) | 23:00–26:31 | | Trump’s decline, media coverage | 27:08–28:43 | | MAGA post-Trump, anti-Semitism | 28:59–31:38 | | Democrat messaging & leadership | 33:27–38:44 | | Economic narrative, populism | 42:03–48:57 | | Privatization dangers | 48:57–51:28 | | Political branding & Zoran’s campaign | 55:40–59:02 | | Had It or Hit It - Pop culture | 63:04–70:43 | | Endings, book plugs | 72:08–end |

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For more unfiltered political takes and petty grievances, listen to “I’ve Had It.” This episode in particular is a must for anyone frustrated by the state of politics in America but determined to fight for its better future.

Transcript

[Rick Wilson]

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[Jennifer]

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[Kylie]

Thanks.

[Angie]

A good one.

[Jennifer]

Yep, that too. Want one place to manage all your online and in person sales?

[Angie]

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[Jennifer]

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[Rick Wilson]

So.

[Jennifer]

Are we supposed to start the podcast?

[Angie]

Ready? 1, 2, 3.

[Jennifer]

Patriots Gates They Trio, Black Trio, Brown Trio, all of the Maga. That is so wound up about dei. What can they do? Pumps off. That's right. That's what they can do. Pumps. What have you had it with?

[Angie]

Okay, what I've had it is I've had it with don't me, don't piss down my leg and tell me it's raining. Just be straight up. This is what I want from you. This is why I'm calling. I got an email. I swear to God it was like 45 paragraphs of at the end, the person wanted something from me. I would have appreciated it more if they just said, hey, I know I haven't seen you in 30 years, but will you do this for me? I would be more inclined than if you have praise for 165,000 pages and paragraphs. And then the ask. It's like, don't kiss my ass. Just tell me straight up. I had somebody I haven't talked to in forever text me and say, hey, will you sign a book and Send it to me. Haven't that was it. No preamble. We didn't small talk and I was like, yeah, send me the address. Easy peasy greasy. Don't me for nothing.

[Jennifer]

We.

[Angie]

I only have so much time on this earth left. I can't spend it waiting through.

[Jennifer]

That's a great grievance, Pumps. It is a great grievance. And there's just something about superficial FR praise that is so off putting to me. When people are uber, uber, uber complimentary, if they give you a compliment, you say, oh my gosh, thank you, that's so nice. Then it's time to move on. But when they keep going, it. It reeks of superficial praise. It. It negates all genuine concern or praise that that person has. And I just find it incredibly off putting.

[Angie]

Yeah, the sincerity is lost when it just keeps going and going and going. I think.

[Jennifer]

I couldn't agree more. Okay, so mine isn't necessarily grievance as much as it is I'm going to tattletail on myself for something good. So Josh and I go with our friends Renee and Eden to the Tame Impala concert in Brooklyn. And we love the band Tame Impala. Our lesbian friends that went with us are on Australian. Tame and Paula's Australian. They did like five sold out nights in Brooklyn, right? So we got, I got the tickets and we get to Barclays center and we go. I asked the lady, I'm like, Section 8? And she's like, yeah, right down here. So we go right down and we see the four seats. And I got the seats that were on the aisle and we sit down. And so a couple of times people were like, you're in our seats. And we're like, no, these are our seats. And they went on some of that typical stuff. And then at one point, one of our friends, I think it was Renee, was up buying drinks. And so there were just three of us sitting in the four seats. And this girl comes in hot and sits in our fourth seat and she has a beer and a water. And the concert has started. We're like three quarters of a way through the first song. So it's peak hyper focus at this point, right? And I'm like, that's our seat. And she's like, no, it's not. And I'm like, yes, it is. That is our seat. You can't sit there. And then she's showing me her ticket. I'm like, you're in the wrong section. And I said, our friend's coming back. Like, the concert started you need to go find your section. So she has her two drinks, the beer in the water, and she is drunk, and she's slopping like this, okay? And my purse is hung over my armrest, and the beer and the water keeps hitting my purse. And I really like this purse, right? And I just went, God damn it. Can I help you get out of front? I mean, just. Just pissy. Just as twaty as I could be. I just went, God damn it. Like, are you this big of a train wreck? Right? So she's like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm like, it's good. We're good. And I was like, God, he kind of. That was such Jennifer. But I wanted to watch the show, and I wanted to secure the seat for our friend. Well, about five minutes later, a couple comes up to our seats, and they're like, what row are you? I'm like, we're row seven. And he goes, this is row six. And I'm in these seats. And I'm like, that's the worst.

[Angie]

That is the worst.

[Jennifer]

Oh, my God. And so there's the lady that works at Barclays center, and she's wanting to see our tickets. And I couldn't. I didn't save the tickets to wallet. They were just in my Ticket Master app, right? Because everybody was attached to all of the wife WI fi capabilities and the antennas and the 5G. I was unable to get in to our tickets. Now we're on song two, which was a banger of a song, right? And we're homeless. And finally I get up. Renee had had season tickets to the WNBA team Liberty that played there. So she had the WI FI password for the good WI fi of the arena. So. So she does share password. I'm able to get in. I screenshot all of our tickets. I go back to the lady that kicked us out of our seat that worked at Barclay center, and she is like, oh, you're over a section. So we get over. Somebody is in those seats, she makes them move. We get our real seats. And then it occurs to me.

[Angie]

That.

[Jennifer]

That girl that I went, God damn it, it's her seat. She was probably in the right seat.

[Angie]

Yeah, you were in her seat.

[Jennifer]

I was, yeah.

[Kylie]

And.

[Jennifer]

And. And I was doing what she did the whole time, and I was acting like I had my together and she didn't have her shit together. Now, I do think she could have been in the wrong section entirely, because I think somebody would have guided her back before the other couple came. But as I'm sitting there and I can't enjoy the second song because I'm really brow beating myself.

[Angie]

Right.

[Jennifer]

Why do you have to be such a twat? She was trying. Of course she couldn't hold a glass. She had no. I don't know why they don't have lids on these things. I don't know what happened to that idea that when you get things at these arenas that liquid's just slopping around. But I just wanted to tattle on myself that I'm a big hypocrite. I am incapable of finding the correct seats. I basically told somebody off that didn't need to be told off when I was the person that needed to be told off. And so I felt like if I atoned here publicly and I want to tell the girl that, I said, God damn it too. I apologize profusely. I hope you found your seat. I ended up finding mine and I'm a big bigger. I'm a bigger than. Than you could have ever been. Despite slopping beer all over my. One of my favorite purses, I still humbly and sincerely apologize.

[Angie]

Here's the thing. I completely get the seat mix up. I've done it. I try to be super gracious in those situations because they happen a lot. But I am a firm believer. And you just because you have a seat to an event, you don't get to destroy anybody else's property with all your. Because this happened to me, not me. But I was sitting next to or behind these two guys at a Thunder game just recently. They're ship faced. They have their solo cups piled up, you know, like 14 deep. So they get up to cheer and they both take their beer all over two rows in front of that, like full beers all over these like old people. And I was just like, enough. Like, if you can't hold your liquor better than throwing your beer on grandma and grandpa. Sit it down. Don't drink it.

[Jennifer]

Get a lid.

[Angie]

I don't know why these arenas don't have lids. That's a huge problem. We need lids in these places. But like, there's no excuse for her spilling on your purse. It's just not that hard.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, I think liquids in an arena or a large capacity venue, we need to focus on liquidity, safety and keeping the liquid contained. Because then you open up a whole can of worms to people slipping, falling personal property getting damaged in this whole just free balling with these cups that have this really wide top filled to the very, very top of beer or water and everything's flying around. It's just. It's just a liquid disaster is what it is. Welcome to I've had it. I'm Jennifer.

[Angie]

I'm Angie. HBIC stands for beaver.

[Jennifer]

All right, we have Kylie, the producer. Kylie, how's it going?

[Kylie]

It's going good. I actually had a recent Thunder game. I sat next to this old lady and we kind of bonded, and she taps me on the elbow and was like, hey, I have this bag. I bring it to every game. Put your stuff in it, like your jacket, your purse, so that when things spill, nothing gets on it. So she let me share her bag with her.

[Angie]

That was nice.

[Kylie]

It's genius.

[Jennifer]

That was really thoughtful. And see, this is just something that's interesting that people are having to bring a bag to secure the bag.

[Angie]

Right?

[Jennifer]

You know, like, I think we need to focus on liquid safety and keeping the liquids contained into one device because you've got a bunch of drunk people, a bunch of hooting and hollering and crazy going on, and we just can't have these liquids flying all over the place because then I'm sitting there going, God damn it, acting like a complete twat. Total. I was just awful. All right. And then she was like, I'm sorry. I'm trying to go, I know you are. I know you are. I'm sorry. Like, I'm. I got right back in there with her. But my. I thought it in my head, God damn it. This. And it just came out. It just. I was like, oh, that was supposed to be internal, right? And it just came right out.

[Angie]

Your indoor voice came out.

[Jennifer]

It happens to me a lot.

[Kylie]

It's funny that you brought that up because I have a review and it's five stars and it says Jen. I just wanted to write that I was the chick that yelled your name at the Tame Impala show in Brooklyn. You and Josh are such a super hot couple. I actually can't believe how beautiful you are in person. After I fangirled seeing you, I just wanted to write in that you and Pumps are my favorite podcasters. I hip is how I get my daily news updates because I just can't stand the rest of it anymore. And you are both mother. It was so cool to see you in New York as a native, born and raised. We welcome you and I'm so excited for you to be here. Hoping with Zoran and people like you moving in New York will be back to what it was.

[Jennifer]

Okay. I think it's safe to say that she was not the girl that I God damned would y' all Say we can eliminate her as a candidate on my ongoing apology tour to find this needle in the haystack of the woman with that I owe this apology to. Thank you. I do remember that gal. And she was so sweet. We were leaving and she was like, jen, Jen. And we turned and waved and she was very sweet. And it was the Tame Impala thing. Oh, my God, if y' all don't know who this guy is. So. Josh and I listen to their music all the time. Great songs. In person. He is such an incredible talent. Kylie, get your ass back in this. You don't get to leave. I was talking to you, too. He is such an incredible talent. It's. Oh, my God. Kylie, do you like Tame Impala?

[Kylie]

I love Tame Impala.

[Jennifer]

Do you know who Tame Impala is?

[Angie]

I don't.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. All right, moving along.

[Kylie]

Okay, now let's bring it down a little. One star miserable. Their name is your reviews. And they said, ah, the screeching old liberal white women show. It's as bad as it sounds.

[Jennifer]

Great. That is great. Miserable. That is so.

[Angie]

Look what my cup here, right here says, dried up.

[Jennifer]

Dried up and miserable. Right on brand. Pumps. Yep.

[Angie]

Nailed it.

[Jennifer]

Right on brand. Okay, Kylie, do you have any news stories to share with us?

[Kylie]

I do. I have an interesting one. This one says the door close button in most elevators doesn't work. It's just there to make you feel.

[Jennifer]

I knew it. I knew it.

[Kylie]

This says the door close button you jab every morning. It probably hasn't done anything in decades. According to the head of the national elevator industry, most of these buttons were disabled after the 1990Americans with disabilities act mandated that elevator doors remain open long enough for people with mobility challenges to safely enter. Then it says, but elevators aren't alone. As the New York Times notes, crosswalk buttons and even office thermostats often fall into the same category. Designed more for psychological comfort than function.

[Jennifer]

I knew. Doesn't psychologically comfort me. It psychologically tortures me that I push the closed door button and the door doesn't hose. This is. This is psychological torture. I knew they were with us pumps. This is your way back into the legal profession with a class action lawsuit for mass fraud. Fraud, waste and abuse. Right. Wasting our brain cells, abusing us by making us think we are in control and when in fact we're not. They're like, haha, lol jokes on you. The National Elevator. What was the. That. That thing?

[Angie]

I didn't know there was such a thing.

[Kylie]

The national elevator industry.

[Jennifer]

Okay, okay.

[Angie]

Never heard that.

[Jennifer]

You know what? You know what national elevator industry you for with us for all of these decades, and y' all just sitting around at the National Elevator Industry offices going, lol. I bet they have little hidden cams in the closed door, but look at this psycho. And I'm sitting there going, God damn it. Just like I did that girl at the Tame Impala concert.

[Angie]

Yeah, I've been with you when you've done it. But Jennifer and I have. I mean, we've said it on the podcast before, but we like to. When we see people we don't want to be on the elevator with, we act like we're trying to keep the elevator door open and hit the door open, but we're really not. It's just like, oh, oh, sorry. But we really.

[Jennifer]

You see somebody coming, you're like, oh, you see, you're acting like you're hitting door open and you, like, slide it over and it's door closed. Sorry, I tried to save it for you. Hit the bricks. All right, Kylie, left. Which I think means that we have a guest. Excellent. We are super excited about our guest. He likes to talk. We like to talk. He hates maga. We hate maga. And we're going to have a who hates MAGA the Most contest. And of course, I'm talking about Rick Wilson of the Lincoln Project. And it's. I can't believe he hasn't been on I've had it.

[Angie]

I know.

[Jennifer]

I feel like that's a fail on our criminal. Complete, completely criminal that we're three years into this thing. We're just now trotting out basically our spirit animal. This episode of I've had it is brought to you by booking.com pumps. I've got to say, if you're looking to grow your vacation rental business, this is the place to be. Booking.com is one of the most downloaded travel apps in the entire world. And for good reason. Since 2010, they've helped over 1.8 million billion vacation rental guests find places to stay. That's billion with a B. But here's the thing. Most vacation rentals don't even realize they can list their properties on booking.com and if you're not on the platform, your rental is basically invisible to millions of booking.com travelers worldwide.

[Angie]

And nearly half of the hosts get their first booking within a week.

[Jennifer]

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[Kylie]

All.

[Jennifer]

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[Angie]

How's this happen?

[Rick Wilson]

So I have no idea. It's a damn mystery. But I'm delighted to be with you guys.

[Jennifer]

We are so happy to have you on. I think the Lincoln Project has been such a front runner in Fighting maga and I'm specifically interested that the majority of you or all of you are former Republicans. Is that correct?

[Rick Wilson]

Most, most of former Republicans. And, and just, you know, I was sort of an outlier. I was the first, like, national Republican consultant in 2015. I was like, I'm not doing this. Not doing it. And, and when we came together in 2020, you know, all of us were like, we're just not doing this. We, we are not, we're not, we're not your, we're not your people. And you know, it's funny because we are from that generation. I worked for the old George W. Bush, the, the Bush senior, the smart one. Well, he, he was a, he was a very wise guy. Okay. And, and it was a different world now. I was joking with an old friend about a year and a half ago. He said, remember when we were in the White House, we used to fire people for being rude? Yeah. Like, oh, yeah, yeah, I do. And now it's like, you could be a, you could be a, a Nazi war criminal. And you're like, they're like, fine. Hey, cool. He's. He's one of our guys. Yeah.

[Angie]

It's almost a prerequisite to be an asshole and a bully.

[Rick Wilson]

Oh, yeah. I mean, and you look at, you look at the people inside the White House, they're all trying to be like baby Trumps. They're trying to imitate Trump or trying to play their little, their own little, like, sub variation of Trump. Stephen Miller is, is, is the worst possible kind of example of that. He's a guy who's never been in a fight. He's never taken or delivered a punch in his life, and yet he gets in there and gets a hard on from putting like, kids in zip ties. Yeah, it's, it's sick.

[Jennifer]

So he is, he is so. It's unbelievable to me. And I always wondered like, who is he married to?

[Angie]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

And then I'll be God damned if his wife roll on to Piers Morgan. And I was like, oh, this totally.

[Rick Wilson]

She. She is, she is. I mean, look, I don't know how Stephen Miller has bred with anyone except in some sort of complicated lab experiment.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Rick Wilson]

But apparently her standards are such that she was okay with that. Which tells you everything you need to know about Katie Miller.

[Jennifer]

No. Okay. Rick Wilson, what have you had it with?

[Rick Wilson]

I have had it with this country treating the Democrats and the Republicans like they're, they're two sides of the same coin.

[Angie]

Yes.

[Rick Wilson]

One of these parties. And look, I, I still come as this, as an ex Republican. I don't have to agree with everything in the Democratic Party. I don't. But I do look at the two parties, and one of them is an authoritarian fascist party that wants to impose a huge government control of everything you do in your life, that wants to tell businesses how they should run, that wants to tell women how they should govern their lives, that wants to tell everybody that they have to express the official emotions the President wants. And that's the Republican Party. I'm done with it. And Democrats and the media too often goes, well, the Democrats and the Republicans are just two sides of the same. They're not. The Democratic Party, as much of a hot mess as it can be, does not want to impose a single national standard for behavior on every single human being. They are not out there saying, well, let's round up all those people we disagree with. They're not out there saying, the DOJ is going to prosecute all of our political opponents. The disservice of people in politics and media who do that, I think it is an astounding failure on their part.

[Jennifer]

I completely, I completely agree with this. And I think that trickles down. When the media says that that trickles down to the electorate, and you hear the electorate picking that up by saying, one, voting for the lesser of two evils, and the two evils with whom they were discussing is either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump or Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. And that that corporate media assertion trickles down and the electorate adopts it accordingly. And I think it's. We're in such a dangerous place. And I've been thinking about this a lot. Sometimes I get mad at the journalists, but I think we have to give a little bit of space to them because the pressure from their corporate owners is so intense, and they need health insurance and they need a paycheck, and they're rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. And I think this corporate media takeovers that we're seeing, I just saw, I don't know if you guys saw this, that Barry Weiss was in the room during the 60 Minutes interview when he was sitting there taking softball after softball after softball, and nobody asked him about the mri.

[Rick Wilson]

No. And look, the. The corporate media thing, I want to cover that quickly because I have been. I'm writing a new book, and part of that is about this corporate media takeover of everything. You know, when you essentially have Trump allies running cbs, Trump allies running part of the NBC family, Trump allies at, at ABC about bending the knee and Fox News, which of course, is the, like the, the creation oven of Donald Trump, I don't want to hear any from conservatives going, oh, the Liberal media. Who, Who? Yeah, where's this liberal media that I hear so much about? Because what I mostly see is an increasing. Oh, and by the way, the social media platforms are run by ketamine Nazi Mark Zuckerberg and, and now Larry Ellison from Oracle, who now is also owning, who now also owns cbs. So I'm sorry, I don't, I don't want to hear any about this liberal media edifice that's supposedly out there when the MAGA media system is vast and expanding by the minute.

[Angie]

Well, statistically, they have way more podcasts and influencers and, and all that. Okay, I have a question for you. You've been doing this a long time. You see. Well, I mean, you worked for Senior Bish. You don't look a day over 35. But like the, the sane washing of Trump, like the, the sliding into dementia that we all clearly see, Biden has one misstep. And I mean, including msnbc, all of the liberal media, like a media as a whole, just, you know, got right on it, captured it, talked about it.

[Jennifer]

Trump slurs.

[Angie]

He makes no sense. He goes off on tangents. And they say Trump had a press conference today. Not rambling. Trump made no sense in dementia. Written press conference. What's that about?

[Rick Wilson]

Not, not crazy grandpa shit talks for two hours in a rambling long story about some woman he met in high school. It's crazy. Joe Biden had a bad debate night and the world exploded. Okay? That was all that was going to be talked about. We, There were people who wrote books about it. Hello, Jake. All this other. And Donald Trump's physical and mental collapse is right in our faces every damn day. He cannot string 20 words together without some wild ass misstatement of fact. I say that kindly when he's not lying. His senility and his dementia is so obvious that he does not understand where or what he, where he is or what he's doing. This is a president who is physically and mentally collapsing in front of America and he's in charge of 7,000 nuclear weapons. And he's, and he's surrounded by people who know this. This is why Russ Vought, Project 2025 and Stephen Miller and JD Vance and Pete Hickset, the Marco Rubio are all doing their own thing because they can get away with it. Trump doesn't have a clue what's happening around him. And he's easily led and manipulated by both people. Internally like his own staff, and externally like Vladimir Putin. He is a guy who is physically and mentally knocking on death's door loudly. And we're ignoring it as a country.

[Jennifer]

I'll tell you who's not ignoring it, are some members of the MAGA movement. And as the media ignores it, insane washes. What I thought was a masterclass on how to travel to Asia with dementia. When he just did the tour, I thought it was a masterclass on that.

[Rick Wilson]

Guiding him around like a child.

[Jennifer]

Right. But I'll tell you who, who has taken notice. And there are some opportunistic savvy players in the MAGA movement who are already seeing a post Kanks America that I never mentioned him anymore. And I'm talking about Marjorie Taylor Greene. I'm talk Tucker Carlson, Ted Cruz and they are stepping out and they rarely ever mention him. They're bringing an economic populist message. They have actually paid attention to the polling of what the American support is for funding the war in Israel, Gaza. And seeing that the poll, it's wildly unpopular. And so they use a very simple Trumpian xenophobic argument to make that will hit hard in flyover states which Marjorie Taylor Greene does this all the time. It's not America first when it's Israel first. And they have health care and higher education and we don't. And for somebody who is not a psycho like the three of us that just like is, you know, well, in.

[Rick Wilson]

My case, opinions vary, but yes, as.

[Jennifer]

Deep in the political news cycle 24 7. And they see it, they're like, well, she doesn't seem so crazy anymore.

[Rick Wilson]

You know.

[Jennifer]

That's right. Why are we paying that. And it's not that Marjorie, she doesn't give a shit about Palestinian kids. She's an anti Semite.

[Rick Wilson]

Yeah. Look, the MAGA folks that see this coming, that see this, you know, they understand that Trump will die someday. Actuarial tables are 100% undefeated in all of human history so far. And when he goes, they don't know what world to build. And yes, there is an anti Semitic underpinning in the MAGA movement. There's a, there's a part of it that is wildly anti Semitic. There's a part of it that doesn't understand how to differentiate between Bibi Netanyahu and Israeli citizens. There's a part of it that looks at that classic sort of populist nationalism and says america first, bring it home. Don't spend money there, spend money here. And it's a longer argument for those people to have in their heads. And they're not good with long arguments. You can see the political motivations of again, Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tom Cotton. A lot of these people are looking out into the future, not just two years from now as we wind down the Trump administration, but 10 years from now, where they see a party that he managed to really reshape in his image, and they don't know how to unfuck it.

[Jennifer]

Right.

[Rick Wilson]

They don't know how to make it viable again without him on the ballot. And that was, you know, Trump, Trump. Trump rarely tells the truth, but last night he came out and he said, trump wasn't on the ballot. That's why you lost. That was not an inconsiderable reason. That was a factor. He pulls out these lower propensity voters that, that ordinarily wouldn't come out to vote. What we call ones and twos voters are scored on a 1 to 5 scale. Fives vote in every election. Ones vote, and only when it's a celebrity. He pulled those people out, but the rest of them can't. And trying to sell Trumpism right now to regular human beings in America, it's like, here, have a delicious shit sandwich. It doesn't work.

[Jennifer]

Right, Right, Exactly. No, I think that, I think that he is a lame duck and the Republicans are. Some Republicans are treating him as such. Of course, Moses, Mike Grinder Johnson will go down with that ship. He will. He is.

[Rick Wilson]

He'll go down all.

[Jennifer]

But I wish that the Democratic leadership would ride this vibe right now and make the argument that you made at the top of this podcast. Look, Zorin's a little further left than I am, but we're not like Trump. He won his primary fair and square, and we listened to the voters of New York and we hear the affordability argument, and we're here to support him as a party because we're a big tent party. New York's a little more liberal than the rest of the country, so it makes perfect sense that he's a little bit more liberal than I am, personally. Cory Booker chuckles. They all should have. I went to the party, the right, the, the Zoron Party. They all should have been there because establishment Democrats go hand in hand, no matter what it is. But they weren't there. They were awall.

[Rick Wilson]

I mean, these guys, they, they will snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory every single time. I'm done with it. I, I, I, I, I know, I know I should be more polite about it, but I cannot deal with Chuck Schumer and this, this instantaneous, like, I will send a sternly worded letter that will teach Donald Trump a lesson.

[Jennifer]

Right?

[Rick Wilson]

Won't fight him to the death.

[Jennifer]

Exactly. And here's the thing. They are playing two different games. The Republicans and the Democrats are playing two different games. And when, when Kanks was out there saying they're going to make D.C. estate and Puerto Rico and they're going to stack the court, I think if I was Hakeem and Chuck, I would stand up, go. You're goddamn right. We're going to do every bit of that. We're going to do all of them as fast as you moved. When we get power back, we're going to move faster. And Merrick Garland up and Joe Biden up by not appointing a fighter in that position. You're goddamn right. We're going guns a blazing on all of that.

[Rick Wilson]

I got to tell you. I mean, I think the Democrats should be promising right now, we are going to dismantle Project 2025. We are going to dismantle Doge. We are going to hold the people in these, these mask from ICE and DHS who are zip tying kids and, and kicking the doors in on the homes of American citizens without a warrant. We're going to hold them accountable. We're going to cut off Kristi Gnome's jet. We're going to not let her boyfriend, Corey Lee Windowski, you know, run this shit behind the closed doors. We're going to drag Stephen Miller up here for a thousand fucking hearings. We're going to get every document. We're going to go into the White House with a chainsaw. We're going to find every secret of this bullshit that's going on. We're going to go into all these corporate donors to the fucking ballroom and they're going to be sitting in front of committees in the House and the Senate and they're going to get their heads caved in over and over again in public to explain the corruption and the, and the cruelty and the bullshit that's going on and the criminality in this country. Democrats need to show America they've got some fight in them.

[Jennifer]

Them.

[Rick Wilson]

One of the other things, one of the things I can't I, that I've had enough of is like, they're like, well, we'll focus group this policy statement and no one will be offended. No. Go in and punch bad people in the face over and over again. And. Yes. Does everybody like that? No. But do Americans respond when you fight for them? Yes, they do.

[Jennifer]

Yes. Well, that's why Trump is, was president twice. Even lies through his teeth. He gives the appearance, I'm going to go fight for you and the focus group situation is what I call pick pick me politics. And if you try to be good, I'll steal that. If you try to be a pick me politician, you're going to be milquetoast. Nobody's going to like you. Nobody's going to dislike you. They're not going to have a strong opinion about you at all. When we had Cory Booker on the podcast, he made an argument that nobody really knows who Chuck Schumer is. And I was like, yeah, fair enough. And I thought about it since we filmed, and I was like, you know what? Every in this country should know who Chuck Schumer is, because I know everybody Knew who Mitch McConnell was. We all knew that turtle, mini stroke, train wreck. And everybody should know who the Democratic leadership is. They should be household names. And the focus group situation is so embarrassing. I read an article that said that they had focus group that the Democrats shouldn't talk about LGBTQ + rights. And I'm like you dipshits. Andy Bershear talked about it and he won Kentucky twice. Zoran Mandani threw zero groups, zero groups under the bus and took on billionaires. And people loved it for him because he believed in something. And you would much rather believe, vote for somebody that believes in something. That is a pick me politicians. And the Democrats play this pick me politics. And it drives me crazy.

[Rick Wilson]

You know? You know, that, that, that moment, one of the weirdest moments of my, of my time at Lincoln Project in 2020 before he passed, I had a converse one conversation with Harry Reid. You know, the old world of Rick Wilson talking to Harry Reid is like, you know, matter anti matter could have never happened. But he said something to me in that conversation. He says, listen, he goes, there have been three great Senate leaders. Lyndon Baines Johnson, myself, and Mitch McConnell. And Mitch McConnell was a great Senate leader in the minority or the majority because he always had a plan and he didn't care how to get there. He had a plan to execute on it. And that is not Chuck Schumer. God bless him. I mean, maybe the guy is a lovely person. I don't know him personally. Maybe he's a lovely man. But we are at the point now where fighters are necessary.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Rick Wilson]

And, and, and, you know, I'd love to be in a world where more diplomats were necessary, but right now, street fighters are necessary. And, and that pick me stuff is. I'm so stealing that line.

[Jennifer]

That's a great. You can have it.

[Rick Wilson]

You can have it. But the pick me thing is so true. It's like they don't want to offend anybody. And so what you end up with is, is something that might have worked in the beginning, but it gets ground down and it get like, there's no salt in it, there's no spice in it. It's all like vanilla paste. There's nothing wrong with vanilla paste, but it doesn't convince anybody. It doesn't make the world go, wow, okay, this is a different idea. These people are gonna do, do something that I agree with or that I feel strongly about. You just get this like, mush and that ain't it, folks. No, that ain't it.

[Angie]

Okay, I want to ask you this question. How worried are you about the midterms coming up? You see, you know, the gerrymandering and all that. But outside of that, you know, Trump is now saying, well, if you do what I say, they'll never get back in power again. I'm like, I know it's, I know it's corrupt, I know it's illegal because that's his M.O.

[Rick Wilson]

So, so he wants to do this filibuster thing. And, and I will say this. John Thune came right out today and said, you don't have the votes. He goes, I don't have the votes. You got to have 2/3 of the Senate. That is a real high hill. You're not going to convince 12 Democrats to join the, the Republicans and, and, and pass an end of the fill. It's not going to happen. And in some ways I want to encourage them in the filibuster so that when we take the Senate and see how it rolls, but they're not going to do that. And so he's stuck there. The redistricting stuff, you know, look, California, the Prop 50 last night passed with a billion to one. Virginia now has a super majority in the House of Delegates. If you all want to play around, we got Virginia now and California and Maryland. Westmore came out in Maryland last night and said, and said, well, you know what? Now the election's over, we could do redistricting too.

[Jennifer]

I love him, love him.

[Rick Wilson]

And, and in a lot of Republican states, Kansas, now Missouri and Florida, they've all basically said, yeah, we can't really pull this together, so everybody needs to step back from the table, put the guns down and not, and let us have a regular old bar fight with, with a normal election. I think the redistricting stuff they missed. There may still be some screw around on that. But, but the, all the overall climate of the year. Right now we are looking at an election that is driven by three things. For 26 Democrats now have a pathway to talk about affordability, the economy, jobs, families. That isn't culture war, it's nuts and bolts. Hey, I'm going to get these roads paved. Oh, think about that. I mean, that's crazy, right? We're going to build, put new roofs on the schools. That's, you know, all this basic stuff. The second thing is Donald Trump is the most unpopular president of our lifetimes. And I'm 62 years old and I went through the numbers in my entire lifetime, there has never been a less popular president at all. At all. And that is a drag on Republicans because they defined themselves as the Trump Party, right? These members of Congress, they're not the, the Republican member from the third district of Illinois or whatever. They're the MAGA candidate who serves Donald Trump. So they're stuck with him. So as his numbers have gone down, their numbers have gone down. The economy is, is killing them, the tariff war is killing them, the shutdown is killing them. All the polling blames them for what Trump has done. And finally, and I think the biggest thing here is Donald Trump will not be on the ballot for 2026. He's not going to be on that line. And so these, these less, these low propensity Republicans who are now sort of becoming dispirited and unhappy are like, fuck it, I'm staying home. And we also saw in New Jersey and Virginia last night the Lincoln Project style Republicans, the moderate Republicans crossed over and voted for Sherrill and for Spanberger.

[Jennifer]

Love it. So on the economy, yeah, I feel like the Republicans need to make a big shift and in the manner that they talk about this, not the Republicans, the Democrats need to make a big shift on the way that they talk about this. Republicans have always undeservedly gotten the accreditation that we're so good with the economy, we're fiscally conservatives and it's a total heaping pile of.

[Rick Wilson]

It is, I can tell you as a Republican, that's a, that's a pile of ex Republican. That's a pile of Right.

[Jennifer]

It is one of the biggest lies that has been perpetrated on the American public that Republicans are fiscally conservative and that trickle down economic, economic works and that propaganda where we are from Oklahoma, it hits really hard with Lincoln Project style Republicans. They say I'm fiscally conservative and I'm socially liberal and the Republicans do a really good job for doing decades long propaganda that embeds into the electorate to take credit for things that they did not earn right. The Democrats operate under assumption politics. We assume nobody is going to vote for Donald Trump. Well, they around and he won twice. Right now they are ignoring Marjorie Taylor Greene. And I keep screaming from the rooftops we have a problem here. And they just assume nobody's going to vote for her because she's the crazy QAnon Jewish laser lady. And I think Democrats have to start messaging Republicans up the economy every single time. Then they need to message how many big red cities can you name? How many big red cities that are economic hubs that are, you know, big donor cities? Name me one big red city. You can't do it. No. The Democrats need to start doing this and it makes me crazy that they're playing patty cake at the, at Congress talking about stupid.

[Rick Wilson]

Let me break this down into two parts because you made two really good points. First off, Marjorie Taylor Greene is craftier than people are giving her credit for.

[Jennifer]

Yes.

[Rick Wilson]

I don't think she's smart, but I think she's crafty and there's a difference. And crafty in politics is a good. Donald Trump's not smart. He's crafty as. Okay, right. He is, he is a sly when it comes to emotionally powerful things with the base. I think she's crafty and I think she's playing a game right now where she's going to say a little bit of like, I was drawn into MAGA because of my good heart about helping poor people, but it was a lie. Now here's the real me. I think it's, but I think that's what she's playing at. I want to say this though, about Democrats and economic messaging. They have for too long come out with policy papers and big thick briefing books and slide decks in PowerPoint said, here's our plan. Read chapter seven, appendix four and you'll, you'll be convinced. It's, it's what I call the Ezra Klein theory of politics. You know what, when, when Ezra Klein's like, you may think you know about toboggans, but the history is, you know, that's a, there's a joke about that, but it's a, it's like they need to speak to people in America in American, they need to talk about jobs in ways that aren't wrapped up in some weird policy statement or some, or some catch all bill that nobody really understands. Because as good as the, the Inflation Recovery act was for a lot of things, nobody understood what it did.

[Jennifer]

Right.

[Rick Wilson]

They couldn't, they never sold it in, in plain English to Regular people. And I think that there's an opportunity for Democrats right now because Silicon Valley and private equity and Wall street and all this, this enormous wealth in this country at the very top is expanding a thousand times faster than families in this country. Real wages in this country creep, leap and, and the, the value in private equity and Wall street and Silicon Valley leaps vertical every day. And I think there's a way for Democrats to start saying, you know, we got to build an economy that isn't just guys who have a summer home in the Hamptons. We got to build an economy that isn't just weird ass guys in electric cars in Silicon Valley. We've got to build an economy that in farm country and in manufacturing country makes sense. We got to build an economy that gives a shit about real people. We got to train people for real jobs, we got to educate people for real jobs and stop trying to make everything into this hyper sophisticated. Like I said, the Ezra Klein argument. People don't need all that nuance and back of the room think tank bullshit. They want to hear real talk. And you know, and it speaks to.

[Jennifer]

How the Marjorie Taylor Greene's and the Donald Trumps use very simple languaging.

[Rick Wilson]

Yes.

[Jennifer]

And I think if the Democrats were to go, go into deeply read places and say we need an economy that isn't built on lies. The Republican Party has lied to you, they've used their faith against you and they've tried to create a boogeyman for you to hate. And who you should hate is that 1%. Who they're always Donald Trump riding around his golf cart saying I'm lowering your taxes. You've been lied to by the Republican Party and have some fire in it and keep it very simple, keep it very black and white. But I agree with you, it is this. When we have some of these Democratic politicians on the podcast and you ask them a question which is a layup for them to answer, and then 30 seconds into the answer, I'm like, yeah.

[Rick Wilson]

It'S like, well, as in my role on the subcommittee for toilet seat standards, I can tell you we passed several bills that would improve the possibility. No, stop it. And you know, there's a, there's a classic American fight of, of, of small against big. Americans were always the small against the big. And that's the Great Depression, that's World War II. That's all these things in American history. I think reframing this because the, the Democrats as the party of big government is a lie, but the party against big entitlement and Big wealth and big control and big tech and big insurance and big banks. That's a pathway where they can go out, out. And Americans will go, those are my guys, those are my guys. They're going to go kick the. You know, Elon Musk does not need a eighth private jet. He does literally have eight private jets, by the way, just so you know. He doesn't need an eighth private jet. If he's worth a trillion dollars, well then he can pay 5% more in marginal taxes every year or, or pay marginal taxes at all. You know, there's a lot where they can, where they can. They've got a cast of villains to run against now because Republicans will say, well, you know, if you raise those taxes, it's going to be mom and pop on Main street who pay the price. It's bullshit, it's a lie. But Democrats never wanted to tell that story evocatively well.

[Jennifer]

And I think here's an important message that the Democrats haven't messaged and the Republicans have done a very good job. The Republicans have talked, talked, spoke about privatization and how important it is and how much preferable that is. And the Democrats have not offered an alternative which the facts are aligned with their policy. If you, or for. Then you're going to be on a Boeing and your door of your airplane is going to fly off because there's been zero regulations on that. And it's better for you to have these services that are a matter of life and death in the hands of people that aren't doing it for profit. Because every time it's for profit, look no further than the pharmaceutical industry, the fertilizer industry, the military industrial complex, the tobacco industry. 12 times out of 10 they're going to dick you over and they don't give a shit if you or somebody you love dies. But the government does. And the Democrats have not offered a defense. And that's why the public was so down with all of these normal everyday civil servants that worked for the government getting fired. Because the Democrats have never explained how life saving and important those jobs are. Is there room for cuts? Yes. But I believe it was somebody that worked under Elon Musk that they interviewed that said I was actually really surprised at how efficient the government was and I didn't find that much waste.

[Rick Wilson]

You know, years ago a guy who was the secretary of the Air Force was a friend of mine, got him Don Rice years ago. We were talking about this one night and he said, you know, here's what Americans want. They want a government that's Smaller, smarter, and better. And I think those all could be done. I think the Democrats could run on those three things. You know, we do have bloat in the government, sure, 100%. We could do things a lot smarter, 100%. But we could also craft a government that is more about taking care of things that people need in their lives. You know, During World War II, we provided childcare because women had to go to work in the factories while men were fighting the. The Nazis. We did things in our country that today people would say, oh, that's Communism. But you know what? I look at the rest of the world and the things that they do for people, and if we had a structure in our country where this absolutely incomprehensible amount of wealth that has been generated from private equity, Wall street.

[Jennifer]

And.

[Rick Wilson]

Silicon Valley was accountable at all. And I say this from a conservative economic perspective. These guys get a free ride on regulations, on taxes, on. On. On everything we support and, And. And basically fund them and provide them with an enormous amount of wealth and protection. You know, when the. When the banks went tits up in 2008, wasn't those poor who lost their houses and. And were upside down on their mortgages who got bailed out. It was J.P. morgan. Yep. You know, all this and the airlines.

[Jennifer]

You know, the airlines have been bailed out.

[Rick Wilson]

All the airlines, I think, have been bailed out, like, five times in my lifetime.

[Jennifer]

And what an important message that the Democrats should be crawling all up like Moses Mike Grinder Johnson's ass. This is what people like that.

[Rick Wilson]

No, you don't. Don't, don't. Don't turn him on. He's gonna have to report you on his porn app.

[Jennifer]

It pisses me off, too, that Democrats don't call because the Christian nationalists brought faith into the political discourse. And I think Republicans need to. I mean, Democrats need to respond to that, to say, this guy. This guy's your example of Jesus. The guy that's the pedophile protector that doesn't do anything to fight for young kids to eat. And they need to call it out directly. Hakeem did a few days ago. He talked about the pedophile protection program. I was like, like, yes, more of that. Now take it further and call him a Christian hypocrite. Because when they quit playing pick me politics and they put a little fight in their step, it works. And I remember, and y' all probably do, too, in 2015, when Trump called Ted Cruz Lion Ted and Marco Rubio, little Rubio, little Marco, I loved it. And what was he, what was Jeb Bush?

[Rick Wilson]

Low energy Jeb.

[Jennifer]

Low energy Jeb. There was something at the beginning of that. Nobody ever thought he was going to win or go anywhere. You know, we all assumed because assumption politics. But there was something refreshing about calling out these twats that just lie to us all the time. You know, there was, and I wish the Democrats would start doing that.

[Rick Wilson]

You know, the, the, the, the, the passion that, that you want to see in a candidate. Too often the consultants are saying, now you need to be a statesman right now.

[Jennifer]

Right.

[Rick Wilson]

I was very successful with a lot of candidates when I was a political consultant because I told them, you have to show fight, you have to show people what you're going to do. You, you can't, don't be the diplomat now. And, and sometimes you have to punch the other guy in the face. And then they would, they would hesitate. I don't want to do that. My country club members would not like it if I, and I always had one line. I'm like, so here's the deal. On election day, you're going to feel terrible if you lose, and if you do these things, you're going to feel terrible if you win is what you're telling me. But do you want to on election day have the title scumbag or the honorable scumbag? Because the honorable scumbag gets to go to Washington and be in the Senate or gets to be the governor or gets to be a member of Congress. And a lot of them thankfully, you know, chose the honorable scumbag route. But it is a fight. You have to show people that you will fight and you have to call out the things that you see. And Trump's greed and corruption and selfishness has become the brand of the Republican Party. Democrats have not figured this out yet. They still think, well, we're going to run against this guy in this district because, you know, we were looked at his vote on the, the things Trump has done are unpopular with two thirds of the American people.

[Kylie]

Right?

[Rick Wilson]

And by unpopular I mean like, like, like radioactive waste unpopular. And it's just, it's just an, an open opportunity for them to go in there and speak American to people. You know, Bill Clinton, speechwriter was a guy named David Kuznet. He wrote a book called Speaking American. Because Bill Clinton used small words, easily understandable, spoke to people at a seventh or eighth grade education level and they found it persuasive. Trump does the same thing. Democrats abandoned the multi syllable words to.

[Jennifer]

Get across as a political strategist. What do you think about the way Zoron ran his campaign.

[Rick Wilson]

So look, I think, you know, like you, you mentioned yourself, Zoran's a little to my left, but his campaign, just from a technical perspective, was brilliant. It was disciplined. Every day he communicated where the voters were, which is social media, which is earned media and press. You know, look, voters in New York do not spend their day locked onto their television set. You know, you're commuting, you're working, you're, you're around. It's not that kind of place, but they do get their news from their phones. He ran a campaign that was mediated by this camera, again by the phone. So he used social media brilliantly. His affordability riff over and over and over and over again worked to build up a pad of support for him. Yes, he won Brooklyn by 80%, but he also overperformed in Queens, which is more conservative part of the city. He overperformed even on Staten Island. He didn't win Staten island, but he did better than anybody thought because the, the affordability and economics cuts across every ideological boundary right now. You know, the, the higher price of groceries, it's unspinnable. You're, you're, you're looking at that bill when you're in, when you're in H E B or Publix or Whole Foods or whatever and you, that's not spinnable. So families feel that. And when he talked about it over and over and over again, and when you see New York as this city with this insane wealth on the top end and, and, and people who, you know, a middle class family in New York now has a three hundred thousand dollar income and that's, it's impossible to raise a child there. You know, that. And, and, and so he kept that discipline and that focus every day. He also was a happy warrior, which counts in politics. You know, people, people, you see certain presidential candidates, whether you agree with them or disagree with them, they were happy warriors. Reagan was a happy warrior. Bill Clinton was a happy warrior. George W. Bush was a happy warrior. And you know, things got shitty on September 11, but he was a happy warrior in the campaign in 2000, Barack Obama was a happy warrior. Pessimistic candidates have a much harder hill to climb. And this being a change, a change election cycle where people want a change. Mom dummy was able to run against Cuomo, who basically functionally became Trump in the race.

[Angie]

Right?

[Rick Wilson]

And he ran a brilliant campaign. I mean, there's just technically a lot to learn from it. The branding was great, the logos were great, the music and the video composition was great, and people felt like they knew him. He became a friend to people through the social media stuff, and they liked it a lot. Now, being mayor is a hard fucking job. It's the hardest job in America. I know this. I was a senior advisor to the mayor of New York at one point. And it is a terrible, grinding, often depressing job because it's a big old city and things go wrong every single day. And you don't get to. You don't get the luxury of, like, I'm gonna have my big plan for the day when a cop gets shot or a building collapses or a school gets caught up, caught on, Catches on fire, whatever. And that stuff happens every minute of the day. So. Yep. But brilliant campaign, though.

[Jennifer]

Listener, the hot book of the summer. Oops, I have it the wrong way. Take two. Listener. The hot book of the summer is now the cool book of the fall. It is in Trump's America. I can tell you with absolute certainty the best book that has ever been written. And believe me, a lot of people are talking about it.

[Angie]

Everybody's talking about it.

[Jennifer]

Everybody's talking about it. It took us one day to write it because we're on day one because.

[Angie]

We took a cognitive test and it was book write done.

[Jennifer]

All right. Anyway, please buy our book. It's a great way to support us. It is a really fun read for the fall. Curl up with your pumpkin spice lattes and just enjoy living the American dream. And dipshit trumps America. Listener, have you ever found the perfect couch or lamp online? And then it's totally sticker shock. And it's like, oh, my God, I want that look. I want that lamp. Totally out of my budget. Well, I have a secret I want to share with you. I use dupe.com. it's simple. Just type dupe.com forward/before any product URL. And dupe instantly shows you similar and more affordable alternatives. It's perfect for finding the best deals for your holiday shopping. $5,000 sofa. That $1200 designer bag or $800 statement light fixture you've been eyeing. Dupe finds them or something nearly identical for a fraction of the price. And it's no wonder that dupe is going viral all over TikTok For a limited time, the first 10,000 people who go to dupe.com had it will get get 500 dupe points instantly redeemable for gift cards. No catch. But spots are limited, so don't wait. Listener, that's dupe.com had it for 500 free dupe points today. Use your dupe points and gift cards to make the most of your holiday shopping. You have to go to dupe.com had it. This ad is brought to you by Vive Healthcare, the makers of Aperitude Cabotegravir.

[Angie]

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[Jennifer]

You must be HIV negative to receive apretude and get tested before each injection. If you think you are exposed to HIV or have flu like symptoms, tell your doctor right away. More HIV testing may be needed. Apretude does not prevent other sexually transmitted infections. Practice safer sex to reduce your risk. Get Apertude as scheduled. Missing doses increases your HIV risk risk. Don't take aperitude if allergic to it or taking certain medicines that may interact. Tell your doctor about your medical conditions, liver problems and mental health. Serious side effects include allergic reactions or rash, liver problems and depression. If these occur, get medical help right away. The most common side effect is injection site reaction. Bring your A game and talk to your doctor. Learn [e-mail] or call 1-888-240-0340. Okay, we're ready to play our world famous game called had it or Hit it. Oh my God. Welcome to had it or Hit it. I would hit it. I hit it every day. Sometimes twice a day. Had it or Hit it. Internet trolls.

[Rick Wilson]

I hit them.

[Angie]

Does that mean you like them?

[Rick Wilson]

Listen, I. It's not that I like them or hate them. It's that I understand that they're a sign that the other side is is pissed off at you and that you're doing your job. Yep. So hit them.

[Jennifer]

Hit it. I like it. I see.

[Angie]

That's how cool I like it.

[Jennifer]

That's a winning attitude. That is. That is the brand of you politics that I need in a leadership position right now. You know? Okay.

[Rick Wilson]

As I like to say, make me Democratic chair for a week. I will change the entire party. It will not be pretty, but it will be fun.

[Jennifer]

No, we need to have. We need to embrace politics and head straight into you politics. People are craving it and that's what the focus group is never going to pick up on.

[Rick Wilson]

Correct.

[Angie]

Okay.

[Jennifer]

Had it or hit it. Florida.

[Rick Wilson]

I'm a fifth generation Florida man. My granddaughter is a seventh generation Florida woman. But I have had it.

[Angie]

Yeah.

[Rick Wilson]

I live in North Florida. I live. I'm practically Rhonda Santis's next door neighborhood. I, I love my state on some levels, but I've had it. It's just, it's such an ugly place now, both spiritually and, and physically. It's developed like it's overdeveloped like crazy. It's. The politics here is so ugly and cruel and shitty and it's. I hate saying that, but I've had it.

[Jennifer]

What's going on with Kitten Hills? What's he up to? I mean, he thought he was the big heir, apparently, to Trump, and I haven't really seen that tough guy or his kitten heel around much at all.

[Rick Wilson]

You know, here, here's the thing. He did not understand that Trump would never let him back in the circle.

[Jennifer]

Right.

[Rick Wilson]

Because Trump's chief of staff, Susie Wiles, used to work for DeSantis. And DeSantis's wife, Casey Macbeth, I, I call her Casey, decided Susie Wells had to go and humiliated her publicly. And Susie Wiles has never forgotten that.

[Jennifer]

That.

[Rick Wilson]

And she pisses in Trump's ear about DeSantis all the time. He's. He's. He's dead, but he's too dumb to lay down. Yeah, I've had it with him.

[Angie]

Yeah, he's over. I did see him, though, very recently on Fox News. And you know, he has that weird mouth. He has. No. Riz. People talk about how. Yes. So he is on there. I swear to God, during the interview, he's sitting there going. He's like really trolling.

[Rick Wilson]

Oh, yeah, you can see the.

[Angie]

You can see it.

[Rick Wilson]

I will now run Human Program 7. And Smile.

[Jennifer]

Fetching smile.

[Rick Wilson]

It's.

[Angie]

Yeah, exactly. Right. That's exactly. It's really inauthentic to say the least.

[Rick Wilson]

Oh, God. Yeah, the guy, he's a hot wreck. Hot mess.

[Jennifer]

I just. That photograph of him with the white rain boots on. Yeah. That is just. I mean, it is just absolute perfection. And it tells you that when you are a politician that paints over pride sidewalks, if you would have had a gay person on staff, they would have never allowed you to be in front of a camera in those. Ridiculous.

[Rick Wilson]

I have a theory of. The theory that is related to that.

[Jennifer]

Okay, let's hear it.

[Rick Wilson]

Is that. Is that his staff hates him.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, has to be.

[Angie]

Has to be.

[Rick Wilson]

That is my theory. His staff hates him and they have to. He is a. He's a incredibly unpleasant person. Incredibly unpleasant. And. And will. It will never be president. It. He's just. There, there. Poison.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Okay. Had it or hit it Trump's ballroom.

[Rick Wilson]

Oh, God had it. I wrote a piece right after the east wing was torn down when I was at the White House. I mean, the East Wing was this beautiful historic place. It was a symbol of American generosity and graciousness and hospitality and, you know, and, and, and that place would be. One day it would be a team of junior high basketball championship girls, and the next day it'd be astronauts, and the next day it would be Nobel prize winners, and the next day it would be, you know, kids working in an apprentice program. And it was, it was a special historic place. And the obscenity of him tearing it down in, in the 10 years of, of Trump, other than January 6th, I can't think of something that made me more emotionally angry than that. That, that it was just such an obscenity and it's such a, such a, an arrogant Saddam Hussein like, ego thing. Just really infuriating.

[Jennifer]

Did you see, did you see where now because of the advanced dementia that they have. In gold lettering put on the outside of the Oval Office, it says the Oval Office. And it's like, you dipshits, it's rounded. Everybody knows that everybody gets it.

[Rick Wilson]

Everybody gets it. These people, you know, this is like an insane medieval king. They all know that he's not the guy in power anymore. He still has that, that ability to command. But, but everybody knows this game is ending.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Rick Wilson]

This game is winding down and it's curtains. And, and, and none of the people around him, by the way, who are getting away with murder right now, quite literally, in Stephen Miller's case. Yes, Democrats, if you let them go, you are fools. They will spread the virus if you don't hold them to account when he's, when he's gone.

[Jennifer]

Agree. You think they wouldn't, you think that they would ever blink if an Obama or Kamala Harris did something to the Oval Office? Let me tell you, before we even get into the war crimes.

[Rick Wilson]

And if I put up, up, if I was Barack Obama and I put up teu whorehouse decor stick on gold leaf all over the white Oval Office, Fox News would be running a 24 hour thing, the desecration of the White House, and there would be people in the street with pitchforks and torches. Yeah. Because it is. There's a Southern word that my, my grandmother used to gradu. I don't know if y' all know.

[Angie]

That word, but we say gradu in Oklahoma.

[Rick Wilson]

Right. Well, well, the, the gradu all over the White House is a sign of his dementia also. Yeah, he Wants to be somewhere that looks like Mar a Lago. So he's comfortable. It looks like. It looks like his Liberace, bukkake spooge, glitter, Marie Antoinette. Yeah.

[Jennifer]

I also have this theory, Rick, that the real psychotic planners that are thinking long term here that want to dismantle the Constitution, they realize, guys, let's give him projects. We'll give him arts and crafts projects, and he can have show and tell with the billionaires. He can build his arc, he can do his ballroom. And we'll keep him occupied with the Lincoln bathroom 100. While Russ Vaught, Stephen Miller, and Peter Thiel. Yeah, where they really it up. Because they know that if they do not consolidate power in him right now, they do not have an heir apparent that can go win a real election. You think J.D. vance, the failed drag queen, is gonna win a general? No. And Kitten Hills. Everybody hates his ass, you know, so J.D.

[Rick Wilson]

Vance. J.D. vance is. Is. Is. Is a guy who is really trying to play act charisma. And it is there.

[Jennifer]

No. And the whole Erica Kirk, JD Vance thing is just weird.

[Rick Wilson]

So gross.

[Jennifer]

It's so weird. The way that whole thing is rolled out has just been so bizarre.

[Rick Wilson]

My favorite. My favorite. Some woman on Instagram. She said, oh, Usher, you in danger, girl.

[Jennifer]

Okay, Rick Wilson, last one. Had it or hit it. The United States of America.

[Rick Wilson]

Hit it. I'm keeping it. I'm gonna fight for it. They're gonna carry me out feet first out of this fight, most likely. You know, I'm just gonna. I'm gonna keep plugging away for this place because we are the inheritors of a tremendous gift. Our country didn't start out perfect, and we have. But we have millions of people who have sacrificed their lives on the battlefield and in the streets and in courts and in Congress and who. Who've tried to build something that honored the Constitution and the founders and the sacrifices that generations before us have made. And I absolutely refuse to give that up to this petty tyrant and his and his scuzzy little minions and this grotesque movement that they think is going to replace the republic and American democracy just won't do it.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, I love that. We'll leave it there. Rick Wilson of the Lincoln Project, thank you for all of the work.

[Rick Wilson]

Thanks so much for both of you for having me. I really appreciate it. It was so fun.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, it's so fun. I'm so glad that we collabed. And let's just keep. Let's keep fighting them. Let's keep pushing the Dems to do a better job and let's just absolutely ridiculing the out of these tyrants.

[Rick Wilson]

Hate ridicule. That's why I deliver it hot every day.

[Jennifer]

Love it.

[Rick Wilson]

Thanks guys. Appreciate you.

[Jennifer]

Thanks. Bye. Bye. Okay, I just think he's fantastic.

[Angie]

I really, I mean I cannot believe this is just now having him on. I like everything he does. I, I want to see it.

[Jennifer]

And he delivers the what the Democrats haven't tapped into, which is this kind of rage, you know, with, with status quo politics, with maga, with Democratic establishment. He's a very good communicator and I think his idea of going to run the dnc, doing it like a two month little stunt there. I'm all for that. I think that, that that could be something unorthodox that they need to try to get off off of the focus groups and all that. All right. Pumps. Tell our listener about our book, the.

[Angie]

Hit book of the fall that's going to take you into this holiday season. If you have a loved one that you love and care about, give them a copy of this book for their reading pleasure. It's also available on audio and is that it? Write a review?

[Jennifer]

Yes. And that's a great idea for it to be a gift. Gift. Life is a lazy Susan of sandwiches to your loved ones. And we will see you all next Tuesday or Thursday. I'll tell you what I've had it with. I've had it with that. Listen up patriots, gay triots and natriots. We have a new podcast that has dropped. It's called I hip News. It's Monday through Friday. Every day, 15 to 20 minute hot takes on the political landscape of the United States of America. Always served with a side of petty grievances.

[Angie]

We are on all the available platforms, Apple, Spotify, Google, whatever you get your podcasts and YouTube.

[Jennifer]

Please go rate, subscribe and review so that we will chart upwards with America's greatest legal mind. Pumps, Pumps. What does an eagle say? Say caca. A little bit more enthusiasm.

[Rick Wilson]

Caca.

[Jennifer]

That's it. That's the patriotism that this country needs right there.