Toddler Terrorism

Summary

Podcast Summary: "I've Had It" – Episode: "Toddler Terrorism"

Podcast Information:

• Title: I've Had It
• Hosts: Jennifer Welch and Angie “Pumps” Sullivan
• Episode Title: Toddler Terrorism
• Release Date: January 16, 2025

---

Introduction to Toddler Terrorism

In the January 16, 2025 episode of “I’ve Had It,” hosts Jennifer Welch and Angie “Pumps” Sullivan delve into the exasperating phenomenon they term "Toddler Terrorism." The hosts express their frustrations with parents who bring their unruly toddlers to adult-oriented venues, disrupting the ambiance and experience for other patrons.

Jennifer Welch sets the stage by emphasizing their mission to address the everyday annoyances that listeners might be grappling with, using humor and candid conversations to vent their grievances.

---

Anecdote: The NYC Restaurant Incident

A significant portion of the episode centers around a particularly memorable experience Jennifer had in a high-end New York City restaurant. The duo recount the chaos caused by a toddler who was left to wreak havoc without any parental intervention.

Angie Sullivan shares her firsthand encounter:

“So we're sitting there, there is a toddler, I'm going to say 3,4ish. Behind us now, mind you, there is a complete glass case dividing the two tables... this kid turns around in his seat and starts banging at the glass wall thing with the crystal in it.”
(03:53)

Jennifer Welch adds her perspective:

“It was almost earthquake loud. It was so loud and it was moving the back of my chair. The mother never turned around.”
(03:53)

The hosts collectively express their disdain for the lack of restraint exhibited by some parents, highlighting how such behavior not only disrupts the dining experience but also breeds resentment towards both the child and the parent.

---

Safety Concerns and Appropriateness of Venues

Jennifer and Angie expand on the dangers and inappropriateness of bringing toddlers to certain establishments. They argue that places like upscale restaurants, coffee shops, and airplanes are not suitable environments for young children due to the high expectations of decorum and the potential safety hazards posed by unruly behavior.

Angie Sullivan emphasizes:

“Nobody wants to go to an adult restaurant with other adults and have your toddler running around acting like a nut. It makes me hate the kid, but it makes me hate the parent even worse.”
(03:34)

Jennifer Welch concurs, adding the necessity for establishments to set clear boundaries:

“There needs to be some oversight. There needs to be some signs. Sorry, we do not allow small children in this restaurant.”
(08:49)

The discussion highlights the frustration with societal expectations that toddlers must remain contained in any public setting, regardless of the venue's nature.

---

Proposed Solutions: No Children Zones

The hosts propose the implementation of "No Children" policies in certain venues to preserve the intended atmosphere and safety standards. They suggest that restaurants, coffee shops, and other adult-focused establishments should clearly communicate their stance on child presence through signage and policy enforcement.

Jennifer Welch advocates for toddler safety under the guise of the hosts' underlying frustration:

“We hate toddlers. But we can do it under the guise of toddler safety.”
(13:09)

Angie Sullivan supports this by suggesting:

“I think we should start having signs that say no children allowed in certain places.”
(09:03)

This segment underscores the hosts' belief that prioritizing the comfort and safety of all patrons necessitates stricter control over where children are permitted.

---

Side Rant: Email Unsubscription Woes

While "Toddler Terrorism" remains the central theme, Jennifer and Angie briefly vent about the relentless frustration of unsubscribing from unsolicited emails. They describe the exasperating process of ending unwanted digital relationships, where attempts to unsubscribe are met with intrusive surveys and continued unsolicited communication.

Jennifer Welch laments:

“I just turned around to you and said, I fucking hate them.”
(05:12)

Angie Sullivan adds:

“It's a relationship that I didn't consent to receiving this email.”
(16:18)

This rant serves as a relatable aside for listeners frustrated with digital clutter and the inefficacy of current email management systems.

---

Guest Segment: Jillian Tureki on Relationship Authenticity

The episode features a guest appearance by Jillian Tureki, a certified relationship coach, teacher, author, and host of the podcast “Jillian on Love.” Jillian engages in a candid discussion with Jennifer and Angie about authenticity in relationships, the pitfalls of ego, and the pervasive misuse of terms like "narcissist."

Jillian Tureki advises:

“Selfishness is like the virus that kills relationships.”
(38:32)

The conversation explores how individuals often present inauthentic versions of themselves in the early stages of relationships to appear more desirable, a behavior that ultimately undermines genuine connection.

Jennifer Welch reflects:

“We were the most phony version of myself in those six months.”
(27:00)

Jillian emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and authenticity to foster healthy, enduring relationships, aligning with the podcast's overarching theme of expressing and confronting personal grievances.

---

Lightning Round: "Had It or Hit It"

In a lighter segment, Jennifer and Angie participate in a lightning round game called "Had It or Hit It," where they quickly decide whether they have "had it" with or "hit it" regarding various topics. The discussion touches on in-laws and public displays of affection (PDA).

Angie Sullivan on in-laws:

“I personally had nightmare in laws.”
(42:20)

Jillian Tureki on PDA:

“I have had it with everyone is a narcissist.”
(35:25)

The segment injects humor into the episode, balancing the intensity of the main discussion with lighthearted banter about universally relatable nuisances.

---

Conclusion and Teasers for Future Episodes

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reaffirm their commitment to addressing everyday frustrations with humor and honesty. They hint at future discussions, including a potential focus on creating safer environments for toddlers and expanding their dialogue on various modern-day pet peeves.

Jennifer Welch closes with a humorous nod to their advocacy:

“Thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode. If you're the mother or father of a toddler, please refrain from taking them to restaurants, coffee shops, airports, and airplanes.”
(52:06)

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Angie Sullivan: “Nobody wants to go to an adult restaurant with other adults and have your toddler running around acting like a nut. It makes me hate the kid, but it makes me hate the parent even worse.”
  (03:34)

• Jennifer Welch: “There needs to be some oversight. There needs to be some signs. Sorry, we do not allow small children in this restaurant.”
  (08:49)

• Angie Sullivan: “I have a twofold habit with number one parents that take their kid to clearly adult restaurants.”
  (02:23)

• Jillian Tureki: “Selfishness is like the virus that kills relationships.”
  (38:32)

• Jennifer Welch: “We hate toddlers. But we can do it under the guise of toddler safety.”
  (13:09)

---

Final Thoughts

“I’ve Had It”’s “Toddler Terrorism” episode masterfully blends humor with genuine frustration, offering listeners a platform to laugh at shared grievances while contemplating societal norms around parenting and public behavior. Jennifer and Angie, alongside their insightful guest Jillian Tureki, navigate these topics with candor, making the episode both entertaining and thought-provoking for anyone who’s ever felt exasperated by toddler-induced chaos in adult settings.

Transcript

[Jennifer]

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[Angie]

Ready? One, two, three Patriots Gay trios.

[Jennifer]

They trio. All right, listen, we're leading the rebellion into 2025. I just think it's just straight up rebellion. You're the attorney of the rebels.

[Angie]

Attorney for the rebellions. Add that to Meemaw Meet Curtains law firm.

[Jennifer]

Oh my God. The other day I was looking on YouTube and somebody just casually commented about like one of our political videos and it was just like me. Curtin makes a good point when she blah blah blah.

[Angie]

I love that so much.

[Jennifer]

It was like meet Curtain makes a good point when she says that Trump xyz. And it just was just like totally normal. Like it wasn't weird to call you meet curtain. And I thought that is perfect.

[Angie]

That's exactly who we are at this podcast.

[Jennifer]

What have you had it with?

[Angie]

Okay, what I've had it with and it is twofold and I'm riled up about us hear it. I have a twofold habit with number one parents that take their kid to clearly adult restaurants. And while there, these parents allow these children to act horrible and they don't even try to contain their children. Newsflash. Hot take. And I've said it before and I'll say it again, nobody thinks your kid is as cute as you Think your kid is. Nobody wants to go to an adult restaurant with other adults and have your toddler running around acting like a nut. It makes me hate the kid, but it makes me hate the parent even worse. For example, and you were with me. We were at a very nice restaurant.

[Jennifer]

In New York City because we're so bougie.

[Angie]

Because we're bougie as. And it was like crystal chandeliers. Like finger food. I mean, it is the fanciest fancy a fancy.

[Jennifer]

It is a PR show.

[Angie]

Beyond lights turned down, you could barely see the person.

[Jennifer]

Great kind of swanky music, right? Perfect level.

[Angie]

Not Christmas music.

[Jennifer]

And not too loud, not too loud.

[Angie]

It just ambient.

[Jennifer]

Ambient noise, ambient light, great smells, great people watching. Until what happened.

[Angie]

So we're sitting there, there is a toddler, I'm going to say 3,4ish. Behind us now, mind you, there is a complete glass case dividing the two tables. The backs of the two tables, there is full crystal in these glass. In these glass cases that are lined up, this kid turns around in his seat and starts banging at the. The glass wall thing with the crystal in it. And I look back, the mother never even turned around. I mean, it was. It was almost earthquake loud. It was so loud and it was moving the back of my chair. The mother never turned around. The kid continued to do it. And I just thought I wanted to stand up and go over and go, take your fucking kid, ho. Get a babysitter. You may like all this nonsense at your dinner, but nobody else in this restaurant does. And if you just take a real quick social cue on your surroundings, this is not Chuck E. Cheese. This is not a pizza party or a, you know, a Mexican hole in the wall. This is an expensive, nice, bougie ass place. And your kid has no place in there. So your kid sucks and you fucking suck. But I didn't do any of that. I just turned around to you and said, I fucking hate them.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, no, it's. It's wild that it goes on. Like in airplanes, we talk about a lot and the child and the parent are forced into this situation. I saw something on Instagram the other day where a guy got on a plane with his kid and passed out goodie bags to the people surrounding with a note that said, I'm so sorry you have to fly next to me and my toddler. We're going through a phase here. Items to help you get through the flight. It was like a Kit Kat, some tissues, hand sanitizer. And I thought, you know, I love that. That's Fantastic. That's exactly what you need in this situation. But these toddlers are out of control. And toddlers are always out of control. They're always going to be out of control. And it's a finite amount, a period in the, in the overall lifespan of parenting, the toddler years. And that is the time where you go to places like you said, you go to some pizza parlor, you go to Chuck E. Cheese, you eat at some, you know, restaurant out in the suburbs where there are other people where they have high chairs. The first cue should be when you walk in and typically your child sits in a high chair and. Or booster seat and the restaurant doesn't have those.

[Angie]

That is a great clue. People are missing this.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, I mean, just if there's not a seat where you can belt the child in, they shouldn't be at that restaurant. These kids need to be belted down. And if the restaurant doesn't have seats where you can strap and contain the child, at least you know, physically, you know, you still have to deal with the verbal nonsense. Throwing a fish. That should be your first clue. And I don't know what's happening where people continue to do this, because when we were in the toddler phase and we've talked about this a lot, Josh and I, the minute. And we would be at a restaurant where it was fine to have a kid, right. The minute one of our kids started that crap, Josh scooped the kid up or I scooped the kid up and we walked out of the door.

[Angie]

You and I used to eat at like 4 o'clock with the kids. And if anybody started having a meltdown, we left or we picked up food like it. Here's what fundamentally I don't get. You're going out for a nice dinner and before everybody in the comments says, oh my gosh, maybe they couldn't afford a babysitter. They couldn't afford to eat at this restaurant if they couldn't afford a babysitter. That's number one. But my whole thing is, why do you want your kid in an atmosphere like that? Isn't the stress on you tenfold in a place that has crystal everywhere and your toddler's being a net.

[Jennifer]

I'll tell you why. They're sadists. They are. They're sadists. They're missing.

[Angie]

They have to be.

[Jennifer]

They're miserable because when you have a toddler, it's miserable. And they decided. They woke up and they chose violence. That day, that mother woke up, put on a great outfit. She was dressed to the nine.

[Angie]

She was super Cute.

[Jennifer]

Did her makeup, got all dolled up. All dolled up. And then she went to that restaurant and she chose violence. She dressed, even dressed her kid up. And then she arrived at that restaurant and allowed that kid to behave the way that kid behaved. Because she's a violent sadist. There's the only answer. And I'm tired of pussyfooting around all of it. A lot of these parents of toddlers are real sick puppies and they want to torture everybody else around them. And there needs to be some oversight. There needs to be some signs. Sorry, we do not allow small children in this restaurant.

[Angie]

I completely agree. I think that's where we're headed. I think if people cannot discern what is appropriate for a toddler, they need to be told. I think it should be on every wedding invitation. If your child's under six or whatever.

[Jennifer]

The age is, why don't, what, here's the deal. I, I think the age limit can be precarious because I've met some eight or nine year olds where the parents are total nightmares that do not regulate the kids. So I think it verbiage we need to strive towards. If your child is an, you're not welcome at this event.

[Angie]

Okay, here's the fundamental problem with that. These parents are, they don't think their child's, they think their kid is such a joy and that everybody wants to be around their child. That's, that's a huge problem is these people that have these shitty kids, they're shitty people. Therefore they want everybody else to enjoy their shitty kid. But I just, I really do think we should start having no children restaurants. Didn't we hear that they were going to have a no children flight or somebody does have no children flights?

[Jennifer]

I, I feel like maybe we heard that, but maybe we're in the process of hashtag manifesting that. Oh, okay, I can't remember. Okay, we oppose manifesting, but we're also manifesting things.

[Angie]

I mean, we're just going to try it, we're going to try it out, see if it works. But I mean, no kids at weddings, no kids on planes, no kids in restaurants.

[Jennifer]

Certain restaurants.

[Angie]

Certain restaurants. Now I don't want to be overly.

[Jennifer]

Broad because there's a lot family friendly restaurants.

[Angie]

Of course everybody has to eat. I get all that. But when it's a super bougie ass restaurant, no kids. And if, here's what I would almost even say if I was a diner with that person because the parents were with other people, that would be a friendship ender for me. I'm never going to dinner with y'all again.

[Jennifer]

I want to. I want to. I want to expand this because you have the super bougie restaurant, which that's obvious. But another place that toddler terrorism is ubiquitous are coffee shops.

[Angie]

Yes.

[Jennifer]

Coffee is a very hot liquid. It is a very adult drink.

[Angie]

Right.

[Jennifer]

And you have a lot of power. Moms that go to coffee shops with their kids around all these hot liquids. And I don't know if these kids are wanting to get all jacked up. I don't know what the motive is on the caffeine, but they. And they've got some, you know, sort of drink that they're drinking and they're screaming, and they typically have green snot always in the nose. I can't even go to coffee shops anymore and enjoy them because of this toddler infestation that is taking over coffee shops. And so I, I. A place that I really typically used to like would be a coffee shop. People watching's great. You know, people kind of going in and out. People read newspapers.

[Angie]

Right.

[Jennifer]

You know, be quiet. Quiet. There is a toddler infestation in this country that is largely going unaddressed, and nobody's doing anything about it. Nobody. Nobody is doing anything about it.

[Angie]

Yeah, No, I completely agree. I think we should start having signs that say no children allowed in certain places. And if I'm the proprietor of a coffee shop, of a restaurant, of whatever it is, I'm putting that on there. Don't bring your kid. I don't want your kid. If you don't want to come without your kids, stay home. I don't need your business. Because there's a lot of other people that don't want kids here, and they'll be happy to start coming to my establishment. That's what I think. I think it's a marketing ploy that we've just left untapped.

[Jennifer]

I do, too. And I also think that there's an opportunity to say to parents, why would you want your child at a coffee shop, right, where the temperature of these liquids is so high that this child is so unregulated they can reach over, and then you're. They get a burner. You a shitty parent. Is that what you want? Do you want your child to get burned from hot coffee? Talk to McDonald's about how well that went over. Remember, there's that big lawsuit.

[Angie]

Yeah, that old woman.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Angie]

No, I completely agree.

[Jennifer]

I think I'm advocating for the kids here, for them not to be around these hot liquids.

[Angie]

Safety.

[Jennifer]

Safety. That Kid that was banging that glass in that restaurant. What if it shattered it?

[Angie]

See, that's what I was thinking.

[Jennifer]

See, what we do is here, the real thing is we hate toddlers.

[Angie]

Absolutely.

[Jennifer]

But we can do it under the guise of toddler safety. And if we are toddler safety advocates, we are.

[Angie]

We're advocates for staying at home in a safe environment with a babysitter.

[Jennifer]

We don't think kids should be around Forks. We don't think they should be around alcohol.

[Angie]

Absolutely not.

[Jennifer]

We think these are very unsafe environment. These parents are jeopardizing the safety and well being of their little darlings by taking them into these war zones.

[Angie]

I like that.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, that's what we do.

[Angie]

How do you argue with that?

[Jennifer]

That's right.

[Angie]

No, I want my kid to break glass.

[Jennifer]

Because, see, first they're going to be like, oh, no, you're an.

[Angie]

Right.

[Jennifer]

Because you're so mean and you used to have kids and you're a hypocrite. All that's true. But we can just skip over that and say, because I'm a parent and because I had a toddler, I avoided places like this because I'm a good mom.

[Angie]

Right. Because I cared about safety.

[Jennifer]

I wouldn't let my kids around hot drinks, around people that are all liquored up around glass. I wouldn't even let my children around Forks. So what kind of fucked up risk taking parent are you? That's the question.

[Angie]

I could even add. When I used to chain smoke cigarettes, I hid from my kids. I didn't want them to get secondhand.

[Jennifer]

We lied to our kids and we told them we didn't smoke.

[Angie]

That's right.

[Jennifer]

We gaslit them. They'd say, well, boy, you sure do smell like smoke. I'm like, that's weird.

[Angie]

That is weird.

[Jennifer]

That's so bad. When we drank wine, we hid. We hid from our kids. And they'd say, God, mom, you seem like your speech is a little slurred. I'm like, so? So is yours. Three year old, you can barely even talk. All right, let me tell you what I've had it with. And I think I've covered this before, but it's a. Every day I face this and I'm, I'm at, I'm at the end. And I don't know what more I'm going to do on this. So I get an email that I didn't ask to receive. Okay. And then I go and I click unsubscribe. And I need for that relationship to end because I didn't consent to Receiving this email. And then when I click unsubscribe, a pop up appears. Tell us why you're leaving us.

[Angie]

Oh, God, a survey.

[Jennifer]

And so I'm unsubscribing, I'm breaking up. And then I'm. And then I'm receiving a survey as to why I'm breaking up, which then I fill out. And then after I've unsubscribed and told them why I'm leaving, an hour later, I receive an email. We're sorry to see you go. And I'm like, the reason I'm breaking up with you is that you're a psycho that can't take cues. That's why this relationship is ending. I never wanted it. You come into my email box without consent. I try to indent. You're pathetic. You send me a multiple choice question as to why I want to end it. I fill it out. I pick one choice and that's not good enough?

[Angie]

No.

[Jennifer]

Then you go back and violate the original boundary that I drew when I clicked unsubscribe. You violate that boundary. Even if I told you why I unsubscribed, then you said, we're so sorry to see you go. We fucking broke up, you psycho.

[Angie]

We're broken up.

[Jennifer]

I'm wanting to ghost you and you are not allowing me to do it. Nobody addresses this. And it is every day. I'm battling this. Constantly battling this. I didn't sign up for any of this. I didn't even give these people my email address. And here they are all up in my crawl, all up in my email box. Just terrorism. Left, right, center, up, down. Why don't you like us anymore? Why are you leaving us? Oh, we're so sad that you left us. You don't Even know me, L.L. bean. We've never met. I've never even been in your store. For God's sakes. Quit stalking me.

[Angie]

Stalking?

[Jennifer]

Oh, I've just. I've completely had it. Welcome to I've had It. Oh, I'm Jennifer.

[Angie]

I'm Angie. Meemaw. Meat. Curtains.

[Jennifer]

Kathy's here. Which I think now I'd like to start calling her Katarina.

[Katarina]

I like it.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Katarina]

Okay, I've got a five star review for you titled Best ESL Material Ever, which stands for English as a Second Language. As an Asian immigrant living civilly in the States for over a decade, I started constantly using phrases like skirting racket, yak mouth, and dog shit in conversations after binge watching all of your amazing episodes. Does this make me sound smarter? No, but has it improved my social skills? Definitely. So if English is your second language and you believe in equity, start your learning journey here and attend this school now. Very educational, highly recommended. The dean, head coach, janitor will wipe the floor with magas. You'll get the best teaching assistant, Kathy. And our star teacher, Sensei pumps in red eyeglasses. Is a stunning combination of brains and beauty.

[Angie]

I'm so happy. I'm just tickled pink. I mean, that's the best kind of review to get.

[Jennifer]

Well, and I just am so glad that we are finally acknowledged for what we are.

[Angie]

Educators, Educate.

[Jennifer]

Thought leaders.

[Angie]

Thought leaders. I wordsmiths, Skirt dog racket, yak mouth. I mean, those are all those need over is a great one. I just want to remind everybody that I did student teaching because my undergraduate degree was elementary education.

[Jennifer]

Well, because you do advocate for children so much.

[Angie]

I do.

[Jennifer]

When I think of child advocacy, I think of you first and foremost.

[Angie]

Thank you.

[Jennifer]

I do, I do. I mean, I think that when it comes to the kids, you're always sacrificing yourself.

[Angie]

Safety first.

[Jennifer]

That's right. Safety first for the kids.

[Angie]

That's right.

[Jennifer]

We want to create safe spaces for toddlers here at. I've had it, Katerina, who's next?

[Katarina]

Okay, this one is five stars. Titled My favorite white ladies. I always say that I trust white people based on if I will have them in my home. You two would not only have a key, but I'd let you have your own spot at my table. I thank you for what you're doing with your platform. Not for just the gays, but for black gays like myself. I dream of the day I can be on the show and scream to the world in meet curtain, Meemaw, we trust.

[Jennifer]

You know, I mean, that is. That is really exceptional compliment high, highest of praise. Because I definitely know how difficult it is when your skin color is darker in this country. And I think a lot of people are dismissive of that or act like, oh, racism. We live in a post racial America and all of this stuff. And black people know they don't live in a post racial America. And so that means a whole lot. It does. Because, I mean, I think this means, like, we're basically invited to the barbecue.

[Angie]

And there's nothing that's higher price than.

[Jennifer]

Invitation to the barbecue because we are beacons of mental health and thought leaders.

[Angie]

Educators.

[Jennifer]

Educators. You're an attorney. I'm an interior designer and. But obviously, toddler safety advocates. And we're always looking for ways to better ourselves, find more positivity be better at everything, if that's even possible. But we today have a certified relationship coach. She is a sensation on Instagram and she is a teacher and author and the host of the podcast Jillian on Love. Let's welcome to I've had it. Jillian Tureki, Listener this may come as a total shock to you, but Pumps and I have not always been this pulled together and rock solid. In fact, we used to be rather screwed up. Wouldn't you say Pumps?

[Angie]

I would say damn near psychotic.

[Jennifer]

Totally. And we have written a cell phone expose. One could even say it's a manifesto. And the book title is Life is.

[Angie]

A Lazy Susan of Shit Sandwiches.

[Jennifer]

In all sincerity, we share a lot of our struggles that led us to this grand stage where we can talk about petty grievances. You can click the link below in the show notes to pre order your copy. Now. Homes.com knows that when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or condo. It's about the home. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location and neighborhood. If you have kids, it's also schools, nearby, parks and transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. And when I say in depth, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about schools with test scores, state rankings and student to teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in1place.homes.com We've done your homework. This show is sponsored by Better Help Pumps. You always hear the phrase New Year, New me, but for me it's like New Year a little bit better Me. And how I have found that I can get better is by being consistent with my therapist at Better Help.

[Angie]

The best part about BetterHelp to me is you have a therapist that you talk to at your own home, completely unencumbered by outside influences. And it just, it makes your life better when you're working and talking things out with a third party listener.

[Jennifer]

BetterHelp is fully online making therapy affordable and convenient, serving over 5 million people worldwide. Access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties. You can easily switch therapists anytime at no extra cost. Write your story with better help. Visit betterhelp.com had it. To get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp. H L P.com had it. All right, listener, let's welcome to I've had it Certified relationship coach Jillian Teki. Jillian, how are you today?

[Jillian]

I'm doing okay. How are you doing great. I'm happy to be here.

[Jennifer]

I feel like. I feel like maybe we could have couples therapy.

[Angie]

Yeah, we definitely need it.

[Jillian]

Let's do it. Let's do it. Take advantage while you've got me.

[Jennifer]

Yes. So I follow you on Instagram and you're always giving really good advice to people who seem to find toxic relationships. That may be they think they're worthy of, but their worth is really so much more than that.

[Jillian]

Yes. I mean, I, I try to help people in all stages of relationship if they're in a, you know, especially with my podcast, if you're in a relationship and you're wanting to make it work. I try to give as best couples advice as I possibly can, especially like, in the dating process or like the first six months of a relationship, which, you know, is. Is like, that's where we get all the information. Right. It's usually within the first year. In that first six months, we, we typically, we get all the information that we need to know if this is someone who is a good idea to pursue a relationship with. Of course, we don't know if it's going to work long term. Like, no one has a crystal ball. We don't know. But we do find everything that we need to know in the first six months. But we tend to lie to ourselves.

[Jennifer]

I think the six months is a time period where oftentimes you're dating that person's representative. You're dating the version of that person that was never outdoorsy. Now all of a sudden, they're outdoorsy. I have been the most phony version of myself during the first six months of dating people. I remember this boyfriend that I had. He was super outdoorsy and he liked to shoot bow and arrows. Who also was super outdoorsy and was literally shooting a bow and arrow with him. Me, I hate both of these things. I mean, yeah, totally outdoorsy. I'm not good at it.

[Jillian]

It's like me and camping. Yeah, I hear you.

[Jennifer]

You know, I. And I'm so you. I, I think is six months long enough because I'm re on really good behavior. I mean, I've been with the same man now for, you know, we have two kids. We've been together for, you know, 25 years. But prior to that, my six month mark, when I look back on it, my 50 year old self look looks back on the version that did that. I was the biggest, fakest, poser, most inauthentic version of myself in those six months. Honestly, I was, I really was. I mean, I would, I would tack on to things that I thought that would please this person and weren't really authentic to me.

[Jillian]

So you raise a really good point. Yeah, I mean, for sure, I have been the ambassador of myself when I was younger in these relationships. I mean, totally, you know, and it's like, okay. And actually, I mean that does speak to, you're, you're speaking to something incredibly important. Which is why, why would one do that? Why would one pretend to be an outdoorsy person when they're really not, you know, shoot the bow and arrow?

[Jennifer]

It's simple. We want to be wanted. We want to be desired.

[Jillian]

Yes, we want to be wanted. We want to be desired. But at what cost? Because there are lots of people who are not doing that.

[Jennifer]

Right, right.

[Angie]

And to be fair, you were super young.

[Jennifer]

I was, it was my Joan of Arc era.

[Jillian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But people are doing as well into their more adulthood, right? They're still doing that. Yeah, you know, they're still doing that in middle age. They're still doing that. And so yeah, we can have a really good laugh about it because it is really funny. But it's the thing that we need to understand that if we're gonna do that, first of all, we're doing that for someone who we think is so amazing, we put them on a pedestal when really they could actually be terrible.

[Jennifer]

Right.

[Jillian]

And, or terror or terrible for you.

[Jennifer]

Right.

[Jillian]

So it's that self abandonment. And I think, look, men do it too, but differently. But a lot of girls do this and I want them to stop. And so that's what's really important is the self awareness of you. Like you chasing this person by trying to be something that you're not right is, is guaranteed to lead you down the wrong path. It's a guarantee it's never going to work.

[Jennifer]

When I stopped doing this, was the next person that I dated when I, when I exited out of my Joan of Arc era, put the boat down, never went camping since then. Then I dated a guy after that. And I'm super progressive, very passionate about my politics. I'm a political junkie. And this man, all of us, when I first met him, he was more moderate, conservative leaning. And then around the second or third date, lo and behold, he's A, you know, progressive political junkie. And it was such a turn off to me how disingenuous his political views were. I. That's when I had the aha moment that, oh, I see what we're doing here. We're.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. We're more. That's what. When somebody did it to me, then I realized how ridiculous I was. Parading around with a bow and arrow and hiking boots on.

[Jillian]

Yes. And actually. Exactly. And it's. We become the turn off.

[Jennifer]

Right.

[Angie]

Yeah.

[Jillian]

And that's the paradox.

[Angie]

Okay, so I have something that she has teased me about forever and ever and ever.

[Jillian]

Okay, Bring it.

[Angie]

So I don't really like someone until they don't like me. What does that say about me? Like, I would have never married my husband. I didn't like him at all. It was ended up being the biggest disaster in the history of the world. But he gave me the boot and then that's when I liked him. So what does that say about somebody that only, I mean, you're really not interested until they reject you and then that's when you care.

[Jillian]

Well, I'm interested because now you're married to him.

[Angie]

Fuck no. We're divorced. I mean, it could not have been a bigger disaster.

[Jillian]

I say, I was going to say, if that actually worked, that, that, that's where like my ears perked up. I'm like, I want to hear more about that.

[Angie]

Oh, no. It was a colossal failure.

[Jillian]

Yeah. Well, so look, there's nuance to all of this. So there's a few things that could have been happening. One could have been, you know, one theory for some people, I don't know if it's true for you, is that like deeply embedded in your subconscious, you actually don't believe that you are worthy or deserving of the love that you so desire. So if someone actually is interested in you, you think of it. Not consciously, but you think of it at what's wrong with you that you like me.

[Angie]

Okay.

[Jillian]

Does that resonate?

[Jennifer]

The opposite. She told me, I said, how did you end up marrying this guy? This is the beginning of our friendship. And she said, I could not believe that he was ghosting me because I was so cute and he's such a dork. And so I had to figure out what that was about.

[Angie]

I think it's more of a how could you not like me?

[Jillian]

Well, he did like you, but then he didn't. And so you saw that as a challenge. So you were leading with your ego.

[Jennifer]

She's an ego.

[Angie]

I'm an egomaniac. I can believe that.

[Jennifer]

I knew it. I knew you were an egomaniac.

[Angie]

Yeah, now we know.

[Jillian]

Now I know. So it's just you're leading with your ego, and you're leading with this. It's like a game. It's a game that you play with yourself, a game that you played with men where it's like, okay, let's see if I can actually like. Like, okay, you're gonna. You're gonna not like me. Let me show you how much you can actually like me. So you see it all as a game and all as a challenge, but really, what you're dancing around or skirting around is emotional intimacy. And that's at the root of it, is fear of emotional intimacy.

[Angie]

Oh, my gosh. Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. I have the worst intimacy complexes you could ever imagine. It's horrible.

[Jillian]

But when you say that. When you say that, you just embedded. Deep like, you like that. You like identifying with that. I. I guess because it.

[Angie]

I've had a lot of therapy, too. I've had to what it started out as emotional entanglement issues, and now I can say childhood intimacy issues.

[Jillian]

Sure. And I'm sure there's attachment stuff from childhood. But what I'm more interested in is the fact that you are like, oh, I am the most. Almost have some pride over it.

[Angie]

Oh, okay. It's the ego.

[Jillian]

There you go.

[Jennifer]

That's what I'm interested in, is this egomaniac that I have to sit next to do this podcast.

[Jillian]

But she. But she just. I. It's part of her stick. So she. It's like she identifies with it so much that she's having a hard time seeing herself as fitting into anything else. It's not.

[Angie]

Yeah, that's true.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Pumps. She recently. Well, in the last three years, went out with this guy, blind date. And I met him, and she was kind of like, oh, he's kind of a dork. I mean, whatever. He's fine. You know, I went on a date with him. I don't think I'm gonna talk to him again. I mean, there weren't, like, major sparks. And then he ghosted her for, like, three weeks. And she starts calling me. Why do you think he's not calling me? I'm so cute. He's kind of a dork. What do you think this is about? And I'm like, well, now I know you're really gonna like him now. I did. I said, now you're going to be chomping at the bit to go out.

[Jillian]

With this because it's safe. Because he's hard now. He's playing hard to get. He's not interested. So now you're gonna go after him, and then as soon as he's interested, you're gonna pull away. And then when he pulls away, you're gonna go towards him and you're just perpetuating.

[Jennifer]

Pulled away. Let me tell you the real reason why he pulled.

[Jillian]

Yeah. Why? Did you find out?

[Angie]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Oh, yeah, we found out. We found out he's married.

[Angie]

He's married.

[Jillian]

Ah, yeah.

[Angie]

Yeah.

[Jillian]

Why did he even pursue in the beginning?

[Jennifer]

Because he's an.

[Angie]

He's an.

[Jillian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Clearly.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, Jillian, thank you for that therapy session.

[Angie]

Right.

[Jennifer]

For us. And thank you for the diagnosis. Perhaps the listener and I will have unmitigated fun with that. Did you write down those quotes, Katerina?

[Angie]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Okay.

[Katarina]

Egomaniac.

[Angie]

Egomaniac.

[Jillian]

I didn't say egomaniac. You said ego.

[Jennifer]

That's right.

[Angie]

That's right.

[Jennifer]

The expert didn't say, she walked me to it.

[Angie]

That's right.

[Jennifer]

I was a dog on a leash, and she walked right to my lap. I feel like I probably did. I probably did. Okay, Jillian, what have you had it with?

[Jillian]

Oh, I've had it with everyone is a narcissist.

[Angie]

Oh, my God. Jillian. Okay, same. So I am a divorce attorney in my real Life, and about 15 years ago, it didn't matter if the person was a narcissist or not. Whoever my client was swore on a stack of bibles, this person, I'm married to a narcissist. And you kind of get to where you're just like, yeah, yeah, whatever. Then it started infiltrating into the other lawyers, saying, well, so my clients told me what a narcissist his wife is. So then the wife's attorney comes up to me and she's like, he is the biggest narcissist. And I'm just like, according to the definition of the general public, maybe from Google, I don't know, everybody's a narcissist. It drives me insane. Here's something else. I don't know if you. I mean, I'm not trying to one up you, but I am an egomaniac. So I had a client that took like, the textbook, a psychology textbook, went into it, highlighted every single page about narcissism, ripped it out of the book and mailed it to her soon to be ex mother in law and said, this is what you raised. She was so convinced of the narcissism. And I Thought you just completely 100% proved that you're the biggest nut in this relationship.

[Jillian]

Yeah, 100%. I think.

[Angie]

Like, that's crazy.

[Jillian]

Yeah, that's, that's. Yeah, she lost it. That was an unhinged moment. Unhinged moment. Yeah. So narcissism is real.

[Angie]

Yes.

[Jillian]

But not everyone is. Like, if someone disappoints you or they're, you know, some people are just immature and maybe they're a little selfish. And you know what? Maybe rightfully so you don't want to date them. That doesn't mean that they have narcissism, you know, that they are narcissists. And throwing it around like every time. Like, I also think it's thrown around. It's actually thrown around between men and women. But someone doesn't like you, they're a narcissist. You know, someone is, you know, we all have a tendency to get selfish in relationships. Even when we're not selfish people in general, we get selfish because we're afraid.

[Katarina]

We're.

[Jillian]

We get selfish because we're thinking love is going to be taken away from us. We get selfish because, you know, if we're insecure, the only thing that matters is really our needs in that moment and we're not thinking about the other person's needs. These are all things that we want to be able to practice, to transcend in a relationship. Because selfish self. Selfishness is like, is like the virus that kills relationships. But that said that everyone is a narcissist. This person's a narcissist, that person's narcissist. But I also have had it about that and which I think speaks really well to the story that you shared about her. That woman sending the note. Where's your accountability?

[Jennifer]

Right, Pumps. There is so much unhealthy food out there and sometimes it's easy just to grab the unhealthy choice. But now that I use Thrive Market, it has made it so simple to find trusted, family friendly brands without spending hours in the grocery store.

[Angie]

Thrive Market has taught me that good food that's good for you tastes good. It doesn't have to be sugary and gross to taste good.

[Jennifer]

And one feature that we can't live without listnr is the Healthy Swap scanner and Thrive Market app. Here's how it works. Scan a product you're used to buying and it instantly recommends a cleaner, healthier alternative. For my family, this has been an absolute game changer. We've made some great swaps. Instead of sugar packed snacks, we're stocking up on brands like Simple Meals, Crackers, Annie's Mac and Cheese, Chomp Beef Sticks, and lesser evil Popcorn. Listener Ready for a junk free start to 2025? Head over to thrivemarket.com had it and get 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. That's T H R I V market.com had it thrive market.com had it I've had it is brought to you by eHarmony, the dating app to find someone you can be yourself with.

[Angie]

Jennifer, I have to tell you, dating is hard aimless. But what I have found is that in my mind I want to be Julia Roberts and Hugh Grant from Notting Hill, right? But eharmony allows me to find someone that's like me that I can be myself with because they have a compatibility quiz.

[Jennifer]

Listener eHarmony wants you to make genuine, meaningful connections, so they design their app that way. Their unique compatibility quiz helps you bring out your personality on your profile, which makes it a lot easier to find someone who gets you because of their compatibility quiz, your personality Personality is the star of your profile, which makes finding the right relationship with the right person so much easier. In 2025, it's all about simplifying your dating life. So get who gets you on eHarmony? Download the app Today Listener Pumps and I have been playing some video games and I have to tell you, we play a game called June's Journey. It is so much fun. Pumps tell them about the little tidbits in the game.

[Angie]

What's so great about this game is it combines everything I murder, crime, family secrets and finding hidden objects. You forget how much fun it is to go through and find objects.

[Jennifer]

And the main character, June, she has a knack for getting into all of these precarious situations and she helps to solve friends problems. It is I cannot begin to tell you how much fun it is. Listener Go to your phone. It is free to download this game. There's always something happening as you progress through the game. You can play by yourself or you can join a club. So download June's Journey for free by clicking the link. June's Journey is available on iOS and Android mobile devices as well as on a PC. Again, all you have to do is download June's Journey for free by clicking the link below in our show notes. June's Journey is available on iOS and Android mobile devices as well. You can play it on your PC. All right, now we're going to lighten it up and play a lightning round game. Had it or hit it. Oh my God. Welcome to had it or hit it? I would hit it. I hit it every day. Sometimes twice a day. All right. Had it or hit it in laws.

[Jillian]

Hit it.

[Angie]

Hit.

[Jillian]

So here's. So here's the thing. It depends how you look at it. When I was married, I had great in laws.

[Angie]

Yeah.

[Jillian]

I think that if you don't come. This was. This was not me. But I know people. If they don't have parents, maybe their parents died or maybe they had a horrible relationship with their parents and they marry into a family. That's. There's a lot of love. That's a beautiful thing. You know, not every in law is a nightmare.

[Angie]

That's true. I personally had nightmare in laws. And I. I mean, this is terrible, but I used to tell Jennifer all the time, like, they're gonna live forever because dying would be too good for me for them to be alive. It punishes me. And then ego. So I had a bad experience. But I.

[Jennifer]

What did you just say? Did you say ego?

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Angie]

That's a terrible thing. That's. That they.

[Jillian]

It's a recurring thing. No, but I love it. It's very charming. I.

[Jennifer]

Which I think egomaniacs. It's often a wishing death. The charm is a part of that personality.

[Jillian]

Yes, it is part of it, exactly. Look, obviously in laws can be terrible. I know that. But I think it depends who you're, you know, who you're asking.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Okay. Last one. Had it or hit it? Pda.

[Jillian]

Had it.

[Angie]

Yeah, same. We don't need to see adults making out. It's gross.

[Jillian]

Yeah, I. Yeah, it's not into it. I've had it.

[Jennifer]

Don't you think there's sometimes. This is our theory. This is our working theory. And since you're a professional, you can weigh in on this.

[Jillian]

Okay.

[Jennifer]

But our hypothesis is this. If you feel the need to do gratuitous making out in public. I'm talking about French kissing. I'm talking about really kind of, you know, heavy petting.

[Jillian]

Like, it's intense. Yeah.

[Jennifer]

In front of others. It's not just a peck or a handhold. When you go beyond a peck or a handhold, don't you think it. There's a performative nature to doing that in public that is disguising a lot of brokenness that's happening in private?

[Jillian]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I wouldn't read into it that way necessarily. I actually like seeing, you know, the hand hold, the peck and the hug between two people that kind of like that kind of warms my heart. But the other stuff I just find very, very immature and very, I don't know, like, just inappropriate and so is it hiding something that's broken in the relationship? I don't know. It could, but either way, I don't know, there's just like a lack of awareness. There's.

[Jennifer]

Do you think it's like a couple, you know, a couple can have personality traits. Do you think that couples. Kind of an egomaniac.

[Jillian]

I know that's a really. I, I don't know. The first word that's coming to my mind is just immaturity. Because it's just, it's, because it's just inappropriate.

[Jennifer]

Right.

[Jillian]

It's like, you know, there's just, there's just an, it's just inappropriate. It's, it's a lack of awareness of your surroundings. And I think it's, I think sometimes.

[Jennifer]

People don't take into account the feelings of the viewer.

[Angie]

Yes.

[Jillian]

You know, when you have exactly like that selfishness. Yeah.

[Jennifer]

When somebody who's a big yak mouth and talks non stop and they won't shut up. I think they're not taking into account the feelings of the listener. Me, I'm the listener. And you're not thinking about how painful this is for me. And I think the same thing with the pda. You're not taking into account the feelings of the viewer. And you're in my sight line and I have to watch this and I'm not watching Skinimax right now.

[Jillian]

Yeah, I, I, you know, I wonder how many times that happens. If there's one person who's just going along with the ride but really wishes they weren't doing it and, or either one or both of them enjoy being a little naughty and so they're living a little bit on the edge.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Jillian]

It's almost like how, you know, going to the bathroom and having sex in a public bathroom or something like that. But it's that kind of living on the edge a little bit, A little bit of a rebellion.

[Jennifer]

Or maybe they're just exhibitionists. But you know what I feel like? What? I feel like this is, it's like we were talking about before you came on. Like I get these emails that I didn't sign up for. Right, right, right, right. It's this email terrorism that I fight daily. It's constant and unsubscribing all the stuff that I have to go through with this. But I think a lot of this, that these couples, these PDA couples are doing, it's Forced softcore porn. They're forcing us to watch soft core porn. It's forced pornography.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Angie]

Especially the rab ass in front of you.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, it's forced pornography in which the viewer didn't consent. And I don't have. I'm not, you know, I'm. I don't have any issue. If you want to watch porn, swing for the fences. I don't care. I'm not a religious nut, but the. In public, when I didn't. I just. I don't want. I just. I don't want to see it. I'm like, what is going on? What is the insecure? To me, it reeks of insecurity when I see it. Yeah, there's just a. There's this. This reeking of insecurity to it. Like, how insecure are you in your relationship that you can't understand what's going on in the area?

[Jillian]

I mean, that definitely could be had. That definitely could be happening. Either way, it's. It's. We're not. We're all in agreement that it's not good.

[Angie]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Okay. Jillian, tell us about your new book coming out.

[Jillian]

Yeah. So the book is called. It begins with you, the nine hard truths about love that will change your life. And it's something that I've been sort of conceiving of since 2018. I wanted to write this because we're not. We're not taught this in school. We're not the things. All the things that we're talking about today, like, we. No one teaches us this. And a romantic relationship has the power to destroy our lives or it has the power to transform our lives. And I taught yoga for many, many years. I've been working with people and their emotions and their relationship with themselves for over 20 years and been doing more specifically, relationship coaching, couples coaching for 11 years. And so at first, I was very drawn to working with couples, but then I was like, oh, I want to help people with their heartbreak, because I know that so well. And I changed my life after heartbreak, and there's no heartbreak that a person can go through that I cannot relate to. And. And then I want to help people find, you know, find their sense of worth and, you know, and date better. So that's how it all evolved. And I thought, I need to write a book that's for everyone, regardless of their relationship status, who's kind of had an and I had it moment, or maybe I had many, many I had it moments about their lives, their love lives in particular. And so this is the book for people who are just like, you know what? I have had it. I don't know what to do.

[Jennifer]

I personally cannot wait to read it. And thank you so much for joining us. This has been a really fun and educational episode, not to mention diagnostic.

[Jillian]

Thank you so much for having me. This has been an absolute blast. The two of you. Her hilarious and very smart.

[Jennifer]

Thank you so much.

[Angie]

Best of luck with your book.

[Jennifer]

Yes. Good luck with your.

[Jillian]

Thank you so much.

[Jennifer]

Bye. Bye.

[Angie]

Smuggest it never there.

[Jennifer]

I knew it.

[Angie]

I'm an ecomaniac.

[Jennifer]

I knew it. You just get all tickled pink when we talk about America's legal eagle. Greatest legal mind. Miss America, the best female in podcasting. You over there grinning for from ear to ear.

[Angie]

Yep, it's me.

[Jennifer]

Now it is officially confirmed. We know why, listener. We've got ourselves an egomaniac on our hands, don't we, Katarina?

[Katarina]

Makes sense. Because I think a couple weeks ago we talked about how mean she is when the cameras turn off.

[Angie]

Yes. Mean, abusive.

[Katarina]

You can be around the office.

[Jennifer]

Yes.

[Angie]

Ego.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, it's all ego.

[Angie]

Gotta get it in check.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Just can't understand why anybody wouldn't like you.

[Angie]

I really couldn't. I mean, I'll just be honest.

[Jennifer]

I'm confirming the diagnosis with both of those men. The one you married and the married one with whom you had the unwitting affair.

[Angie]

Right. So that tells me right there, stay out of relationships.

[Jennifer]

You're bad.

[Angie]

You're bad at it.

[Jennifer]

Well, I think your ego gets in the way.

[Angie]

My ego's in the way. That's exactly right.

[Jennifer]

Your ego's in the way of you finding real love and true, true intimacy. It's the ego.

[Angie]

Nailed it.

[Jennifer]

It's a tale as old as time, and it happens to the. The greatest legal mind. But think about all the language we use surrounding her.

[Katarina]

America's greatest podcaster.

[Jennifer]

Greatest legal mind.

[Katarina]

Princess Diana.

[Angie]

Exactly.

[Katarina]

Imagine comparing yourself Princess.

[Angie]

I don't compare. I don't say I. I'm Princess Diana.

[Jennifer]

Well, wait, wait. I think if we were. Run the tape or whatever we do in the digital thing. Scan the. Whatever. I don't know. Slide the. How do you do it? Replay the tape.

[Angie]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Okay. All right, listen. I believe when I said, I'm Jennifer, you said, I'm Angie. America's greatest legal mind. Memaw meat curtains.

[Angie]

I think I know I said me, Mommy. I probably have. Yeah, because I'm an egomaniac, that's why.

[Jennifer]

Exactly. I think. You know what I say? I say you lean into it. I'M an egomaniac that specializes and toddler safety procedures.

[Angie]

I'm trying to cure my egomania by.

[Jennifer]

Helping others by advocating for toddler safety.

[Angie]

That's right. That's me.

[Jennifer]

Next episode we're going to start making a list of things that list of places where we think toddlers are not safe. And so just right out of the gates I'm going to say this. Thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode. If you're the mother or father of a toddler, please refrain from taking them to restaurants, coffee shops, airports and airplanes. Thank you so much for listening today. Pumps. Will you tell them when we will see them?

[Angie]

See you next Tuesday and Thursday. I'll tell you what I've had it with.

[Jennifer]

I've had it with that. Listen up patriots, gaytriots and natriots. We have a new podcast that has dropped. It's called IHIP News. It's Monday through Friday. Every day, 15 to 20 minute hot takes on the political landscape of the United States of America. Always served with a side of petty grievances.

[Angie]

We are on all the available platforms, Apple, Spotify, Google, whatever you get your pipe podcast and YouTube.

[Jennifer]

Please go rate, subscribe and review so that we will chart upwards with America's greatest legal mind. Pumps. Pumps. What does an eagle say?

[Angie]

Caca.

[Jennifer]

A little bit more enthusiasm.

[Angie]

Caca.

[Jennifer]

That's it.

[Angie]

That's.

[Jennifer]

That's caca. That's the patriotism that this country needs right there.