Turning Point Twinks

Summary

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Podcast Summary: I've Had It – "Turning Point Twinks" (May 5, 2026)

Main Theme

In this episode of “I've Had It,” hosts Jennifer Welch and Angie “Pumps” Sullivan (joined by regulars Ryan and Kylie) tackle a delightfully winding discussion of things that drive them nuts, the funny realities of modern relationships, gym etiquette, the unique conundrums lesbian couples face socially, the culture of “twink maxing” and straight men appropriating gay aesthetics, steroid side effects, and the messy drama of rightwing influencers—all peppered with personal stories, biting observations, and their trademark irreverence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. “Had It” Rants – Everyday Grievances

• Self-Checkout Frustrations

  • Ryan hates self-checkout but also hates not having the option:
    • “I have had it with self checkout until I only have three items…then I have to wait in line.” (02:05)
  • Jen relates—she’s proud to excel at self-checkout, comparing her efficiency to going through TSA.

• Being Slowed Down at the Gym

  • Jen recounts being frustrated by husband Josh’s slower workout pace and his need for frequent breaks:
    • “I like to get a cardio exercise... I don't want to rest during. I want... to be an efficient person.” (06:23)
  • She mocks his performative hydration and their humorous competitiveness, especially his obsession with measuring body fat (see segment on “Twink Maxing” below).

• Gym Etiquette: Machines & Social Media

  • Jen rails against people who sit on gym machines scrolling Instagram or taking calls during rest:
    • “What I'm not fine with is public psychotic Instagram use while other people are waiting to use your machine. Social media should be banned in gyms.” (09:24)
  • Ryan agrees, wishing all phones were banned at gyms.

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2. Relationship Etiquette & Lesbian Couple Dynamics

• Watching TV Shows as a Couple

  • Kylie and Anna (lesbian couple) struggle with watching shows together vs. solo, with Kylie being more serious and Anna distracted.
    • “I'm the annoying one that's like watching her watch the show to make sure she's paying attention.” (10:49)

• Girls’ Night – Who Gets Invited?

  • Jen brings up the “Les Triots” scenario: if you’re friends with one person in a lesbian couple, is it rude to invite just one to girls’ night out?
    • Kylie: “It’s real because the lines are so blurred with it being girls ... It’s foursome or pretty much bust. Someone’s feelings are going to get hurt.” (12:09)

• Lesbian Social “Minefield”

  • The hosts highlight this as a genuine, under-discussed issue—how do you handle invitations in tightly knit lesbian circles without sowing resentment? Ryan jokes about how carefully invitations must be handled.
    • “That's a minefield child.” (59:13)

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3. Stereotypes, Symbolism, & Appropriation

• Subaru Stereotypes and the Rise of “Midlife Lesbians”

  • The group lovingly pokes fun at the lesbian-Subaru stereotype and notes how “midlife lesbian” phenomena have grown, even in conservative states.
    • Jen: “You know, this midlife lesbian thing has really taken off.” (13:54)

• Patriotism and Political Irony

  • A listener review sparks discussion about reclaiming words like “patriot” from right-wing co-optation.
    • Ryan: “It’s been hijacked so much ... I wouldn’t buy anything red, white, and blue, even for Fourth of July.” (28:53)
  • Jen tells a hilarious story about a “white party” in rural Oklahoma involving “black penis cookies” meant to be gavels:
    • “I knew it was a bad idea for white people to have a white party in rural Oklahoma...” (31:49)

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4. The Jackrabbit & Gym Gossip

• Recurring Gym Characters
  • Jen’s story about “the jackrabbit,” a man with a bizarre and energetic workout routine:
    • “He does these jackrabbit exercises ... it's bananas ... it's really kind of hard.” (15:28)
  • She is now paranoid he might know she talks about him on the podcast.

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5. MAGA Internet Drama and Mental Health

• Right-Wing Infighting & Diagnosing “Personality Disorders”
  • The gang reviews ongoing Twitter feuds between online rightwing personalities:
    • Jen: “Jennifer has diagnosed Erica Kirk as an advanced state of manic psychosis.” (18:39)
    • Kylie: Laura Loomer accused of doxxing Candace Owens’ husband, dragging up old arrests, and even salacious rumors (“she’s been sucking him off…”)
    • Jen: “That would be my… nobody would know that, ever. I would deny that until they laid me in the ground.” (22:44)
  • The hosts find it poetic that hyper-gossipy and toxic communities ultimately turn on themselves.
    • Jen: “It never occurs to any of them, oh, if this person is capable of hating on all these people, I too could be the target.” (24:29)

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6. “Twink Maxing,” Looksmaxxing, and Gay Culture as Straight Male Inspiration

• Introduction to Twink Maxing

  • Ryan introduces the “twink maxing” trend: straight men on social media appropriating the aesthetics of twink culture (slim, youthful, well-groomed) as part of looksmaxxing.
    • Jen: “Twinks maxing is optimizing for the twink aesthetic: slim, lean, youthful, boyish...” (37:39)
  • This intersects with her husband Josh’s obsessive tracking of his own body fat percentage (“My body fat is 4%, you guys.” – 38:47).

• Metrosexuality, Body Fat Obsession, and the Gay Aesthetic

  • Numerous stories about Josh asking random (often gay) gymgoers their body fat, and his comical “rivalry” with celebrity Peloton trainer Maddie.
    • “[Josh] has basically got ChatGPT... saying ‘If you or someone you know is struggling with 4% body fat, you should immediately... take them to the hospital.’” (40:17)

• Is Narcissism the Solution to Homophobia?

  • Jen: “Could straight male narcissism be the tool we didn’t know we needed to fight homophobia?” (48:22)
    • Asserts that gay men set the standard for grooming, fitness, and style; maybe straight men aspiring to these levels could chip away at old prejudices.

Notable Quote

• Dylan Latham (guest, on being called “gay”):

  • “I just think it’s really funny that gay is used as an insult, because I am not insulted by it whatsoever. ... The gay dating market is a lot more competitive. So, when they say you look gay, it means you look better than average.” (47:49)

• Hosts on Straight Men & Steroids

  • Jen: “You think shrinkage, you think soft serve, you think, you know, problems ... with rising, with erections, etc.” (49:51)
  • Ryan: “I dated somebody that did steroids. And the penis shrinkage, it comes on gradually.” (50:38)

• Ryan (on handsome trainer)

  • “You just don’t find a straight man that hits all those cylinders very often.” (55:43)

• Jen (on Oklahoma metrosexuals):

  • “If he goes to a megachurch, I’m telling you… G.A.Y. exclamation point, neon sign.” (57:15)

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7. Final Thoughts & Last Laughs

• Lesbian Couple PDA and Group Outings

  • The group muses that lesbians “have a real tendency for PDA… there is a lot of lesbian PDA, which I support, and I really don't support PDA, but because they're lesbians, I make a caveat for that.” (59:35)
  • They invite listeners to weigh in on the etiquette of inviting only one partner from a lesbian couple to a girls’ night, calling it an “important lesbian issue.” (60:21)

• Butch Maxing, Softball, and Closing Banter

  • Joking self-identifications: “You kind of butch max…” “I was the softball. Shit's wild.” (61:14, 61:24)
  • Jen plugs her new book Not Today Fascist.

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “I want to, that there’s no self checkout, and then I want to, that there’s only self checkout.”
  – Ryan (02:16)

• “I think social media should be banned in gyms.”
  – Jen (09:26)

• “It’s foursome or pretty much bust. Someone’s feelings are going to get hurt.”
  – Kylie (12:09)

• “I've had it with Get Ready With Me. …Stop putting on your makeup while you’re talking about something serious.”
  – Jen (25:23)

• “Jennifer has diagnosed Erica Kirk as an advanced state of manic psychosis.”
  – Jen (18:39)

• “The gay dating market is a lot more competitive. So the average person, when they say you look gay, means... they're saying you look better than average.”
  – Dylan Latham (47:49)

• “Could straight male narcissism be the tool we didn’t know we needed to fight homophobia?”
  – Jen (48:22)

• “If he goes to a mega church...G A Y, exclamation point, neon sign.”
  – Jen (57:15)

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Important Timestamps

• [02:05] – Ryan’s Self-Checkout Complaint
• [06:23] – Jen on Being Slowed Down at the Gym
• [09:24] – Gym Social Media Etiquette
• [10:49] – Kylie & Anna’s TV-Watching Quirks
• [12:09] – The “Lesbian Girls' Night Out” Conundrum
• [15:28] – Gym “Jackrabbit” Story
• [18:39] – Diagnosing Political Rivals
• [22:44] – Laura Loomer Allegations (Trump rumor)
• [28:53] – Reclaiming Patriotism and Rural Party Story
• [37:39] – Twink Maxing & Looksmaxxing Discussion
• [40:17] – The Body Fat Obsession
• [47:49] – Dylan Latham on Twink Aesthetic and Insults
• [48:22] – Is Straight Male Narcissism Anti-Homophobia?
• [49:51] – Steroids & Male Body Image
• [59:35] – Lesbian PDA & Social Events
• [61:14] – Butch Maxing / Softball Banter

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Tone

Original, candid, irreverent, and unfiltered—the hosts share personal anecdotes with sarcasm, warmth, and plenty of in-jokes, while fearlessly mixing humor with real social observations.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode embodies “I've Had It”'s unique blend: uproariously funny venting about petty grievances, sharp cultural takes, intimate glimpses into the hosts’ lives, and witty explorations of trends from dating to body image to LGBTQ+ issues. You’ll come away knowing far too much about body fat percentages, lesbian social dynamics, political infighting, and the perils of white parties in Oklahoma, but with plenty of belly laughs, too.

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If you’ve missed this episode, you missed a wild, insightful, and absolutely hilarious ride through the things we’ve all “had it” with—and maybe some you never knew you should be annoyed by.

Transcript

[Unknown Speaker A]

I sold my car in Carvana last night.

[Jen]

Well, that's cool.

[Unknown Speaker A]

No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.

[Ryan]

So what's the problem?

[Unknown Speaker A]

That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes as smoothly. I'm waiting for the catch.

[Ryan]

Maybe there's no catch.

[Unknown Speaker A]

That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.

[Jen]

Wow. You need to relax.

[Unknown Speaker A]

I need to knock on wood. Do we have wood?

[Unknown Speaker D]

Is this table wood?

[Jen]

I think it's laminate.

[Unknown Speaker A]

Okay.

[Unknown Speaker D]

Yeah, that's good.

[Unknown Speaker A]

That's close enough.

[Ryan]

Car selling without a catch.

[Jen]

Sell your car today on Carvana.

[Ryan]

Pick up. Fees may apply.

[Unknown Speaker D]

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[Unknown Speaker E]

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[Jen]

So are we supposed to start the podcast?

[Ryan]

Ready? 1, 2, 3.

[Jen]

Patriots, gay trots, Theatriots, Black Trio, Brown trio. We love you. And all of the fascist triple trumpers can do what? Pumps. Welcome to America's top DEI podcast where we kick ass and take names every day, seven days a week, 24 7, 365 pumps. What have you had it with?

[Ryan]

Okay, what I've had it with. And I think this just proves that I am nothing but a cranky old fart. I have had it with self checkout until I only have three items and

[Jen]

then I have to wait in line.

[Ryan]

So then I've had it that the they don't have self checkout. So what I've decided is I can't be happy. I don't want to be happy. I want to that there's no self checkout and then I want to that there's only self Checkout.

[Jen]

I, I, I relate to this. There are so many things that I have absolutely had it with, and then when they're not available to me, I'm irritated at, at that. I think that's incredibly relatable. I, I would imagine that you're not very good at self checkout.

[Ryan]

Okay. I have to say, I am not very good at self checkout. And it has given me, like, a huge respect for grocer grocers that do that all day because, like, finding the deal and doing all that, it's just harder than I thought it would be.

[Jen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I imagined, yeah, I imagined. I come a surprise to no one. I'm great at self checkout. I, I shine, I thrive. I'm, I'm ready, I'm efficient. It's kind of like I approach self checkout the same way I do tsa. When I go through tsa, I want all of the TSA agents to be like, in awe, like, wow, she was ready. She had everything out and ready she went through. What a great passenger she is. Likewise. I think about the feelings and the observational view of the checker outers behind me, the customers behind me, they were like, God, this old lady, this Gen X, she's gonna take forever. And I'm like, hold my beer out the door.

[Ryan]

Look how good I am.

[Jen]

And I got my dogs with me half the time too. And they just sit and they just, they watch. And that's of great support, as you can imagine. All right, so let me tell you what I've had it with. This has to do with my husband, Josh. And he doesn't really listen to this podcast. He just finds out from other people what I say about him on it.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jen]

So when he was in New York last week, we work out together and it's fun to do, to go work out together. The problem is I like to work out without taking a break. Like if I do a bicep curl and then a squat and then a sit up and I'm going to do all of those things in rotation. I don't take a break in between each one. And he likes to lollygag and have a sip of water and all of these things, Right. Which, okay, whatever. I'm a little bit more fit than he is. I mean, whatevs, right? So I went at his pace Monday through Thursday that he was in New York. Last week I went, we were team, we were in unison. He did a curl, I was doing curls. If I finished before him, I paused. I waited. By Friday I had fucking had it.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jen]

And I was like, it's game on. So I went, and our trainer's name is Emily. And I was like, okay, Emily, what's the next exercise? And I have lapped him now. I'm, like, so far ahead of him in the exercise, I can feel the titty baby exuding from his body, right? I can feel it. And I know. I've made a calculation. I know that later on today I'm going to hear like, we were supposed to work out together. And I knew. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to take that because I want my heart rate to get up and I want my heart rate to stay up, and I'll just. I'll deal with the aftermath at a later date. So I finished the workout much faster than he does, and I go to the rowing machine and just crank out about 700 meters just until he finishes.

[Ryan]

Oh, you were that far ahead?

[Jen]

Oh, way ahead. Wow. It's not even. Not even close. Okay, so we leave, and as we walk home, it starts. He said, you know, we were supposed to, like, work out together. And I go, oh, here we go.

[Ryan]

Here we go.

[Jen]

I knew this was coming. And he goes. I said, I'm just. I don't like to take a break. I like to get a cardio exercise. And if we're just working out for an hour, I can rest before, I can rest after. I don't want to rest during. I want. I like to be an efficient person. And he said. He said, well, I'm lifting much heavier weights than you are. And I'm. I'm really, you know, like, basically he's telling me he's stronger and he's a better exerciser than I am, that I'm just blazing through it, and that's not the case. Yes, he is stronger. He is stronger. There's no question he's a male. He's 6 foot 4, et cetera. Actually 6 foot 3. Last year, he upgraded his height to 6 foot 4. Total fraud on his. All of his identifications. At 56 years old, he upgraded his height. And that's something we'll leave to our psychoanalysts to discuss at a much later date because. Enough. But of course, he is stronger. But I wasn't, like, going fast with each exercise. I was, you know, up, one, two, down. I was doing all of that just without breaking and lollygagging and drinking water, which everybody knows how much I oppose performative hydration, even at the gym, even

[Ryan]

if you need it.

[Jen]

So he got so smoked out. And then the remainder of the day, it was hilarious. And Josh can laugh at himself. So I mean, he's like performatively upset for the listener. It's not like this is real, but he was like, I mean, I just thought we were supposed to go in there together. Like we were supposed to do it together. So I've kind of had it with him slowing me down at the gym. And then just a follow up here on some gym stuff that I want to report back my grievance from a month or two ago about people that like, maybe they're on the. A machine, some sort of machine that you want to use. Maybe let's say the leg press and they're going to do three sets and they break and don't do another exercise. Like I do, like I'm going to do a leg press. I'm going to do something else. Something else. This individual random gym attender is going to do the leg press and then they're going to hold and stay on the leg press for their break and then do another set and another set. I don't have a problem if you want to hold and stay. What I have a problem with is during your hold and stay, you want to get on Instagram and then you're, yeah, these people are on Instagram bogarting the machines and the next thing you know, like all of us, you're like, huh, that's an interesting hashtag. And then next thing you know, 750 weeks ago, Shirley Q. From Dayton, Ohio did XYZ and you're down some rabbit hole. Which is fine. I'm totally fine with being a psycho on Instagram. What I'm not fine with is public psychotic Instagram use while other people are waiting to use your machine. So I think that people, I think social media should be banned in gyms.

[Ryan]

I agree. I think phones in all forms should be banned in gyms. Like, nobody's so important that they need to take a phone call during the gym. Like, I mean, maybe just like, hey, can you pick this up? Yeah, okay, bye. But not like, how are you? What's your mother in law? Nothing like that. Here's my thing. Josh is a peddler. He, he just, he's just, he can lollygag around and he can kind of get off on tangents, which I can kind of do too. And, and you're a push through, get it done. Like hyper focused.

[Jen]

It's like a machine.

[Ryan]

But here's the deal on Josh. He, I mean, honestly, for him to say I thought we were doing that together. I know he's laughing about it and it's funny because he doesn't really care that much. But can you imagine if you were married to someone that was legitimate about that, like that? My whole skin crawled when you were talking about that because I know Josh was giving you shit.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

But I cannot. I know. I have people that I know that, like if they watch a show together and then the other person watches an episode without them, it is. It's like a breakdown of epic proportions, which I love.

[Jen]

I believe that Kylie and Anna do this. Welcome to I've had it. Kylie, do you and Ana have this situation with shows?

[Kylie]

We do.

[Jen]

I think this would be ubiquitous with lesbians. High charged emotional stuff.

[Kylie]

Yeah. And I'm a very serious TV watcher.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Kylie]

Anna, you know, pretty ADHD TV's not like she's just not laser focused on it. I'm the annoying one that's like watching her watch the show to make sure she's paying attention.

[Ryan]

I hate that.

[Kylie]

So I've just started blazing through and I think she's kind of given up on.

[Jen]

I want to talk to y' all about something. This is something interesting that we need to discuss with the Les Triots. So if you have friends that are a lesbian couple.

[Ryan]

Okay.

[Jen]

And you're friends with one over the other, but you like the other person's wife a lot and you're going to do some sort of girl dinner, oftentimes you might think I want to invite my main friend, but not the wife. Well, that seems really exclude. Exclusionary. You know, that's. That doesn't seem right. But nobody else is bringing their husband. Right. So this is a tricky situation in lesbian culture. And Kylie, I'd like for you to weigh in on this because I've experienced this back in Oklahoma City. We have. You know, a lot of my pickleball friends are lesbians. And this is something that we've, we've talked about. So how, how do you, how do you navigate this?

[Kylie]

You've just nailed like a real issue. It's real because the, the lines are so blurred with it being girls.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Kylie]

Anna and I have, we purposefully work on this. Like she has to go have time with her friends. It's completely separate because I wouldn't want my friend to bring her boyfriend who I don't like. So like. But it is tricky, like couple friends, especially in lesbians. It's. It's foursome or pretty much bust. Someone's feelings are going to get hurt.

[Ryan]

Couldn't the world just be. If you. If you're not inviting the husbands, the girlfriend doesn't come, the wife doesn't, then

[Jen]

what do you do? What do you do? You say, okay, here's the deal.

[Ryan]

It's no husband.

[Jen]

We're inviting Anna because she's a little bit more feminine than you are, Kylie. So that's our decision making. Well, that seems discriminatory, right?

[Ryan]

Well, but if you're Kylie's friends, we're

[Jen]

only inviting the lipstick Leslie. Which Kylie. I'm not saying you're not a lipstick Leslie, because clearly your drop dead gorge.

[Kylie]

I do have a tie on though. Today.

[Jen]

You do?

[Kylie]

Perfect for your.

[Jen]

For my argument. Yeah. So how do you determine then which lesbian gets excluded? I'm telling you guys, this is a real pickle that people are not talking about at all.

[Kylie]

I think there's a lot of pickles in lesbian relationships that get blurred because two girls like you're. You're really tapping into.

[Jen]

That's before we even get to the Subarus and the U Hauls.

[Kylie]

Exactly.

[Jen]

You know, there's a girl at my

[Ryan]

dog school that has a Subaru and she. I mean, I try to be patient with her.

[Jen]

I don't just she lesbian.

[Ryan]

I don't. I don't know if she's a lesbian or just directionally challenged. Like, for whatever reason we're following each other into dog school. It's like she doesn't know where to turn in. I'm like, it's a fucking driveway. It's not that hard. But every day we have to go. I mean, just like. So now I have my eye on her.

[Kylie]

I don't think she's a lesbian because they're not directionally challenged.

[Jen]

I would agree with that way you've

[Ryan]

been there before, lady.

[Jen]

Come on. Interesting car choice for a heterosexual woman, though. Just leave that.

[Ryan]

I have a friend that drives a Subaru. She loves it. She's not a lesbian. Really?

[Jen]

Are you sure? Are you sure about that? You know, this midlife lesbian thing has really taken off.

[Kylie]

It's huge.

[Jen]

It's a big thing. It's a really, really big thing.

[Kylie]

Even in Oklahoma. I mean, big.

[Jen]

I think especially in the Bible belt. I think that's where it's at least

[Ryan]

on the download for sure.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

Hunting wives is so popular. All the churches are doing scissors,

[Jen]

Bible study. Scissor. We're gonna go from 2 Corinthians and then break out into a jackrabbit Scissor.

[Kylie]

It was pumps and her friends, you know.

[Jen]

Oh, my God, you guys so ever since I did the gossiping about the characters at my gym, about the jackrabbit in particular, so I forget that the podcast has grown this much, right? And so. Because I always just think it's us and the listener, right? Because that's what it's always been. And we're so incompetent and such morons. Every single day since I, in detail, described the jackrabbit, he's been there. He's always at the same spot where I am. And I'm always like, to Emily, I'm like, oh, my God, there's the jackrabbit. I talked about him on the pod, and he's. And he's over there just jackrabbiting, you know, and he's just. I mean, he's just going. He does these jackrabbit exercises like this. It's bananas. But I think, like, does he know? Does he know I haven't seen the handstand guy.

[Ryan]

That's what I was gonna ask.

[Jen]

I've not seen him. I've not seen him, and I really quite enjoyed watching him exercise. Jackrabbit's really kind of disturbing. It disturbs me.

[Kylie]

Do you think it's like a mating call? I don't know.

[Jen]

It's what it seems like. It seems like you. What's the guy's name?

[Ryan]

The.

[Jen]

The British National Geographic. You know the guy.

[Ryan]

The famous Richard and Ashcroft.

[Jen]

How do you two producers don't know this? No, British.

[Kylie]

What's his first name? Do you know?

[Jen]

Richard. Dude. National Geographic. British guy.

[Ryan]

Richard Attenborough. That's it. Richard Attenborough.

[Jen]

Come on. Who pulls through in the clutch? Dementia mama pump stuff. That's right. Okay, so a picture, like, it's so perfect that if Richard Attenborough was like, this is what we call the jackrabbit exercise. But it does sound. I mean, and he does this like, he's like in a side plank and his arms up and he just. I mean, it's like, it's double time. 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5. It really is. I tried to do it, and I was like, it's really kind of hard. I tried to do it at home. I didn't try to do it at the gym. But I was just like, what? What is there to that? I was bored, and the dogs were just staring at me like, oh, my God. It was. I tell you what, though, I've got to quit talking about people on the podcast every day that then I'm going to run into. Because if he Comes out to me and he's like, hey, are you talking about me at the gym? I'm like, what are you talking about? Do you call me the jackrab? Oh, God, no. It's not you. It's the other jackrabbit, which there is no other one because his exercising is so insane. We all talk about it.

[Ryan]

How about the lack of self awareness? If the jackrabbit's looking around the gym wondering who the jackrabbit is.

[Jen]

Yeah. All right, Kylie, do we have any. What are people saying about us on the worldwide web? Any responses from the jackrabbit?

[Kylie]

No, not from the jackrabbit yet. I will keep an eye out.

[Jen]

Such a moral. I'll tell them to personally next time I do that. You're gonna have to cut it out, edit it out.

[Kylie]

We do it a lot.

[Jen]

I know, it's really bad. All right.

[Kylie]

Okay. This is. I went to Spotify and took a look at the comments on there. And Lioness Arce says petition to get Jen's research into medical journals. Stop stealing her findings.

[Ryan]

I agree.

[Jen]

I think that's a great idea. We. It's unbelievable the amount of hypotheses we've had on this show and then the science. A year later, we're on the World Wide Web and then somebody's launched a study. And so in our spare time, we can. We'll start a medical journal that we keep internally here, like the permanent record.

[Ryan]

I think we're good.

[Jen]

I kind of want to start our own. Kylie and I were talking about we need to start our own dnc because the DNC sucks. They won't release the autopsy. And we need to start our own Congress. Like, Congress is doing a bill to condemn Hassan Piker, and I would like to do a bill to condemn Erica Kirk. And so since Congress is useless and worthless, they can just do that. So I want to just be like, hear ye, hear ye. And then I read the bill and then every. Everybody votes. And we can. We can go down to a park in New York City and have them vote on it. And then we just. And then we just say, okay, we have an article here that we've all voted on and we've all condemned Erica Kirk. And I just want to say this. Here's just something that I want to say. I want to say that it's interesting to me that Trump talks incessantly about insane asylums and releasing the craziest of the crazy, you know, into America. And there's these insane asylum, just batshit crazy people and then you look at his most fervent supporters, and I think she needs to be in an insane asylum. And I mean that sincerely. Like, put that in the medical journal. Jennifer has diagnosed Erica Kirk as an advanced state of manic psychosis. That is my diagnosis. I will let the psychiatrist catch up with me. But she needs to be in psychiatric care. I mean, there's something severely wrong with her. But in maga's world, it's like we're going to. It's like a mental illness parade. It really is. It's insane. The personality disorders on parade. It's really sad. But it's a master class in why we need health care and we need to fund mental illness, normalize mental illness, but not in this way. Have you seen platforming it?

[Kylie]

Have you seen Laura Loomer this whole last week? Laura Loomer, who's been in insane asylums quite literally three times, has lost her fucking mind. Owens. Yes, she is.

[Jen]

What's going on?

[Kylie]

She's trying to dox her. She's, like, finding arrest records of Candace's husband, and he's an immigrant, and she's posting them online and being like. And it's like, do you.

[Jen]

An immigrant?

[Kylie]

Yeah, he's like, British, I think.

[Jen]

Yeah. I don't think Maggie counts. Yeah, white.

[Kylie]

She calls him an immigrant.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Jen]

And I don't think. I don't think Mag accounts white as immigrants. They only count brown people.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Jen]

She.

[Kylie]

She posted this, like, mugshot and he got like some stupid arrest a while back, and she was like, candace, good luck explaining this one. I mean, she's.

[Jen]

Candace, respond.

[Kylie]

Yeah, can you want me to. Yeah.

[Ryan]

They're going back and forth on the day.

[Kylie]

They're going nuts.

[Jen]

I mean, okay, so, all right, so to recap, Candace's husband is a white European. European immigrant. And oh, my God, these people are fantastically crazy. And he gets all liquored up and gets a dui. And Laura, you know what it is?

[Ryan]

I don't think it was as serious as the dui.

[Kylie]

Oh, no, it's like some small thing.

[Jen]

Bender, Bender.

[Kylie]

She's going off. Candace. Owen. This was like today at Real. Candace O. Loves to present her marriage with George Farmer as traditional fairy tale romance. But the actual reality of their sudden engagement is completely insane and inhumane.

[Jen]

Inhumane?

[Ryan]

How'd that happen?

[Jen]

What's inhumane about it?

[Kylie]

Right around the holidays in 2018, Candace explicitly told me about how she was happily living in Philadelphia condo with her cat and a loyal boyfriend of seven years, Ryan. Yet right around the exact same time she completely blindsided Ryan and abruptly got engaged to Farmer when she met him at a TP USA event in the UK with Charlie Kirk.

[Jen]

Fucking turning point.

[Kylie]

Everything comes back. It takes a truly soulless grifter to string a man along for almost a decade, heartlessly abandon him for a rich guy she knew for 14 days, and then lie to the public to manufacture a conservative love story so she can come across as a trad Catholic. It goes on and on and on.

[Jen]

Wait, I think I read. And Ryan, Kylie, let me know. I read on the Internet that Laura Loomer is accused of performing oral sex on Trump.

[Kylie]

Yes.

[Jen]

That she's been sucking him off.

[Kylie]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Which, my God, don't you know? Melania has just gratitude out the wazoo for the service she's providing.

[Kylie]

Yeah. She said stick around.

[Jen]

Has Candace mentioned that.

[Ryan]

Yes. It was something in a lawsuit. There was going back and forth. It just got dismissed. But Laura Loomer, like, brags about giving Trump a blowjob, which I'm like, that would be my. Nobody would know that, ever. I would deny that until they laid me in the ground.

[Kylie]

I also just. I missed.

[Jen]

Wait, hang on. Would you rather Ted Cruz or Donald Trump? Blowjob. From. From. From soft to completion to. To ejaculation, to swallow. You have to pick Donald Trump or Ted Cruz. Pumps.

[Ryan]

Pick one. Okay. A couple questions before I answer. Okay, I'm happy to answer that. With Trump's ankles, I think he cannot. He does not have enough blood flow to get a hard dick. So I think it was just. It would go on forever and ever. So you could never. I mean, you.

[Jen]

You're second. Whatever your second would have to be.

[Ryan]

Ted, you haven't done a good Mary kill in a long time.

[Kylie]

We do.

[Jen]

Kylie, what did you find?

[Kylie]

I was just. I messed up, and I didn't read the best part of this tweet. This is how Laura closes out her Candace tweet. Let's be clear. There is nothing pure Christlike or Catholic about Candace Owens. She's basically. She's basically a female Jim Jones. Like Jones, she will lead all her followers to their own demise when they drink too much of her poisoned Kool Aid.

[Jen]

Oh, that's so good.

[Kylie]

The insane asylum is rampant.

[Ryan]

It's open.

[Kylie]

It's open.

[Ryan]

Laura and Erica could park next to each other in the lot. Walk in.

[Jen]

Were they ever friends?

[Kylie]

It sounds like it. She says. She told me.

[Jen]

You know what's so. You know what's so funny about the whole MAGA movement? Like, they come together at first because it's like, oh, yeah, we get to hate on people together. And it never occurs to any of them, oh, if this person is capable of hating on all these people, I too could be the target. Like when I have a friend friend that's a super big gossip and always talking on their friends, I'm like, well, I know when I'm not around, they're talking on me. So I always kind of Heisman arm length. I'll still be friendly. But I'm like, it's probably not that great of a friend to have. That never occurs to them. And so now I love it that they're all targeting each other. It's delicious.

[Ryan]

I want to point out like this Ashley Sinclair, the baby mama of Elon Musk or whatever, all of these. I mean, I know I'm slow to the party. I get that. I just realized that all her tell all on magav videos or Get Ready with Me. So she does it while she's putting. I'm just like, what is she doing?

[Jen]

And then I've had it with Get Ready With Me. I didn't even know people did them. No, they. Here's what they do. Pumps. It's like somebody. They do it on the left and on the right, in all fairness, I see liberal, progressive influencers that are talking about something very serious. And I'm like, hi, guys. You know what? Today, the Supreme Court has gutted voting rights. And I just think this is disgraceful and this is such an attack on the black community. I'm just like, stop putting on your makeup while you're talking about something serious. But I don't know what that thing is. I don't know what. I don't understand it. I'm tired of seeing people put on their makeup. It's not that unique. It's not that great to watch. Stop now. Stop putting up your on your makeup online. Stop it.

[Ryan]

Agree.

[Jen]

This episode is sponsored by Better Help Listener. May is Mental health Awareness Month. A reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. For example, I get overwhelmed with the news cycle. I get overwhelmed with our filming schedule. I get overwhelmed with my children and family responsibilities and how to juggle it all. And that's why once a week I sit down with my therapist from Better Help. They have quality therapists. Better Help therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US and they have a therapist match. Commitment. Better Help does the initial matching work for you, so you focus on your therapy goals. However, if you aren't happy with your match, Switch to a different therapist at any time from our tailored re listener. You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up to get 10% [e-mail] had it. That's BetterHelp H lp.com had it. All right, last week I was trying to buy a new club chair for my living room and I was searching and searching and searching. I spent like two hours. Finally found the perfect chair. Click it. Price outrageous. And I was like, God, this sucks. I don't know if I want to spend that much right now. This is why I want to introduce you guys to dupe.com. dupe has a research for me tool. Instead of wasting an entire day, you just type in what you're looking for and within a couple of minutes, Dupe does a hours of trustworthy research. Seriously, you guys. Dupe.com is going to save you so much time. You'll also get a full breakdown of features, specs, and pricing. And my favorite part, it actually tells you what not to buy, which can save you from making a very expensive mistake. So listener, be prepared to save yourself a ton of time and money. Just go to dashupe.com and tell it what you're looking to buy. That's dashupe.com to finally feel confident about what to buy. All right, what's the next review?

[Kylie]

All right, the next review we've got here is from Cecil. She writes. Hi there, new listener here and better for it, I think. I just want to say I don't think I realized how hijacked the concept of patriotism was for me. Until I listened to you two, there was no definition of patriot that I felt could belong to me. And now I'm reconsidering my relationship with the word. Just hearing the way you use it, that's really interesting to think about. So thank you for that.

[Ryan]

I too have struggled with patriotism as a word. Like, I kind of get the jeebs when I go to a sporting event and I do the national ant. I mean, I just don't. It's been hijacked so much that I. It's hard for me to embrace it, really. Like, I would not buy anything red, white and blue, even for fourth of July. I wouldn't.

[Jen]

You know, Josh Welsh, he hates patriotism. He hates it. He cannot stand it because living in Oklahoma, so many people, their identity is being a patriot. And, oh, I support the troops. I support the cheer ups, I support Freedom. And it's such. Because Republican policies abandon the troops. Republicans are demeaning to the mental health needs and the physical needs that the troops have after they sent them there. Have no problem funding the bombs to make the military industrial complex. Billions upon billions of dollars. But they don't take care of the soldier. And so, Josh, one year, we went to my friend Liz. She's a member of some. It's in Oklahoma, rural Oklahoma. And it's like a neighborhood, and there's a river, and it's like a Illinois River.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jen]

River club or something, right? So she invites Josh and me to go to this river club with her. And as we're. Before we go, she's like, now, the first night we go, jennifer, it's going to be a white party. And I go, liz, that doesn't sound good. We're going to a white party in rural Oklahoma. That sounds a little KKK for my taste. She's like, oh, please, come on. And she's like, make sure you bring white clothes. I was like, okay. Okay. We walk up to the white party, and this woman puts out a cookie tray to me, and it is a black penis cookie. And I look at the cookie and I look up at Liz and I am like, are you kidding me? I told you this shit was a bad idea. White people having a white party in rural Oklahoma is not. Get their black caught cookies right here. And Liz is, like, crying, laughing. She can't speak. Well, what the deal was was they were initiating a new president to the River Club, okay? To this redneck river club. And all the people, they're really lovely. No disrespect to the river people. Y' all were great river hosts and hostesses. But I said, what's the deal? Why are you serving black cookies? They said, well, we're swearing in a new president, and these are a gavel. And I'll. I'll get the image for you all to put up on here. And so they're serving these. And I knew it was a bad idea for white people to have a white party in rural Oklahoma at a river. I called it. I was ahead of the curve on this. I walk up and the first thing somebody offers me is a black cookie. Unfucking believable. Believable, right? So, of course, I take a. An A picture with it and let me find it for Kai. Here we go.

[Ryan]

Here we go.

[Jen]

Here's my friend Liz and me. Let me text this to Kylie so she can put it up on screen. Screen. Anyway, so we have a wonderful Time at the River. It's Fourth of July weekend, or maybe it was Memorial Weekend. I don't know. Some weekend that causes people to feel patriotic. So we go to this dining area at the River Club. It's very informal, not fancy, but very good food, very nice, but, like picnic tables, right? And everybody gets their food. And then everybody stands up, the new president has a speech, and then he says, let's everybody sing God Bless America. And I look over to Josh. Josh hates patriotism because he thinks the people that scream about patriotism the most are the biggest hypocrites on the planet. And I can't argue with them. That right, Josh? When we go to Thunder games during the national anthem, he says, I'm going to go to the restroom because he can't. He can't stomach it. It makes him. Infuriates him to see that many Republican voters fake supporting the troops because it's total fake support of the troops. So I look over at Josh when they announced that we all have to sing God Bless America together. And Josh goes, all right, here we go.

[Ryan]

Let's go.

[Jen]

And then we all start in. God Bless. And I mean, I'm looking at Josh through the whole thing, and I know he is just dying because he got really mad about Colin Kaepernick. The way Colin Kaepernick was treated. And he was trying to use his, you know, his position to draw attention to the policing disparities for the black community, which. Josh is a criminal defense lawyer, and he sees it every single day up close and personally, the. The disparity in the apartheid policing system and justice system. But no Blackhawks, White party, rural Oklahoma. There it is. Kylie, can you zoom in on that, too? So that they can just see. There's Liz. Look at Liz is like, oh, shit. So you see, we all showed up to the. This is the first thing. I'm at the party for two seconds, and somebody comes up to me with a tray of black cookies to the river people, I love you. I know that you didn't mean to serve black cookies, but there it is. Tell me that is a word. I think it says, like, congratulations, Greg, or whoever the new president is. They put it on the ball sack. Yeah.

[Ryan]

Of the cookie.

[Jen]

It looks just like it, but I knew it.

[Ryan]

I knew it.

[Jen]

I told Liz there's no way a white party in rural Oklahoma with all white people. There's something bad is going to happen. And sure enough, they're serving black cock cookies. Let's talk about this. The baker that made them. I mean, Do I'd like to dive into the psychology there. I mean, is this a person that needs to get laid? Is this a person that's like, you know, I should have tapped some chocolate at some point in my life, you know, like, it's just, it's. It's such a penis.

[Ryan]

Yeah. If I were making him, I would say needs to get laid and that I would have taken great care in telling people they, they were gavels. And in my mind, like my own secret joke that it was a penis. I would, I would have thought I was hilarious.

[Jen]

It objectively looks like a penis, not a gavel. Wouldn't you say, Ryan? Kylie, what do you, what do you definitely.

[Ryan]

I definitely see a penis.

[Jen]

You don't see a gavel at all. Right. It's a penis.

[Kylie]

As a gay man, I feel like that's a good endorsement.

[Jen]

I agree. I mean, I. And I ate it. I ate a black cookie.

[Kylie]

Which direction did you and I ate it.

[Jen]

I started at the tip.

[Kylie]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Ended with the balls.

[Kylie]

Did you eat it in one? Did you put the whole thing in your mouth or did you bite?

[Jen]

No, I did. I did probably three bites total. Maybe four. I did. On. Started at the tip, then the stem, then one ball, then the other ball.

[Kylie]

Did you use both hands?

[Jen]

I think I used one. I was a single. A single hand. Single handed.

[Kylie]

And was it good?

[Jen]

Did it taste good? It was delicious. It was delicious.

[Kylie]

That was a salty sweet.

[Jen]

It was sweet. It was sweet. We should be canceled. Yeah, we will say this is devolved

[Ryan]

and it's not even me this time.

[Jen]

We should be canceled. Kylie. Do we have any more reviews?

[Kylie]

No. Do you want to do some news stories?

[Jen]

Okay.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jen]

I have a new story here. Story number one for the class a straight. I'm sorry, started here. Story number one for the class straight Gen Z men are now appropriating gay culture. Popular looks maxing influencers are now embracing a new trend. Pop this up, Manosphere. Influencers are twink maxing and proud of it. So looks maxing pumps is optimizing your physical appearance to the highest potential, including skin care, hair care, fitness, grooming, posture, dental work ranges from soft maxing, which are easy habits, to more extreme measures like cosmetic surgery. And this has been popularized on TikTok and forums like Reddit. Reddit. And it can be positive self improvement tip or obsessively dysmorphic territory. So that's look looks maxing pumps. You follow me? Yeah. I didn't think you had. So now we're going to segue over to Twinks maxing. All right, you know what a twink is? Pumps, right?

[Ryan]

Yes.

[Jen]

Would you define it for the listener?

[Ryan]

It's a gay man that's petite and is in the female role. Right? Is that right?

[Jen]

Yeah. Ish. Ish. Pretty good pumps.

[Ryan]

I'm Ryan.

[Jen]

Does that pass? This ish. That's pretty good. Yeah.

[Ryan]

Okay.

[Jen]

Twinks maxing is optimizing for the twink aesthetic. Slim, lean, youthful, boyish look. The common goals of twink Twinks maxing are low body fat, clear skin, slim face, defined but not bulky physique focuses on staying lean. No low calorie cardio, heavy skin care and grooming. Dylan Latham, one of the popular online looks maxers, is embracing Twinks maxing. Let's pop this up.

[Kylie]

I also just want to say that to kind of describe Josh.

[Jen]

The whole time I'm sitting here, all of it, the looks maxing, plus the twinks maxing. I'm like, this is. Listen to this. I just had Anna text Josh to get his TSA number because we're flying. We're going on a trip together to get his TSA number and his American airline number. And he sent it. And then he sent his body fat to her as well. My TSA number is this. My AA Advantage number is this. My body fat is 4%, you guys.

[Ryan]

We just got 4%. Okay.

[Jen]

All right, just a quick. A quick pause that's in our regularly scheduled programming about twinks Maxing to update you on Josh's body fat. So when he's in town and we're at the gym together, and I'm not working out together with him, immediately after the workout, he's like, emily, do we have time to go measure my body fat? He's obsessed with it, right? And when he was in town, we hosted this glad party, and we went to the. The host of the party is a guy named Maddie, and he is like the peloton queen bee instructor on the planet.

[Ryan]

Okay?

[Jen]

Maddie, this party, this glad party that we co hosted was at Maddie's apartment. Maddie is a fitness instructor. He is built like a goddamn fucking six pack. I mean, just a tall, gorgeous Madonna. Totally. So we're at his house, and Josh goes up to him and he's. I'm like, josh, Maddie, Maddie, Josh. And then Josh says, maddie, what's your body fat?

[Ryan]

No, he doesn't.

[Jen]

He absolutely does. And Maddie says, I don't know it. And I go, yeah, Josh, most of these people don't psychotically check their body fat. And then Josh says to Maddie, what do you do not knowing that Maddie is like, a famous fitness instructor because he has no clue because he's always in the Josh Welch show. Right?

[Ryan]

Right.

[Jen]

So Maddie's like, well, I work out. He goes like, do you work out, Matt? He goes all the time, all day, every day. I'm like, josh, he's a peloton instructor and a trainer. Stop it. He's like, so you don't know your body fat? So we go. We go to with Emily, and he gets his body fat taken. This is after the Glad party and it's dropped some. So he gets on Chat GPT. And he is so antagonistic with AI. He's so antagonistic, goes back and forth between, like, Chat GPT's lying to me, Claude's lying to me. And he goes back and forth between Chat GPT and Clyde. Right? We're in the car in New York, and he has basically got Chat GPT. And mind you, this is a unhinged hypochondriac. Chat GPT is saying to him, if you or someone you know is struggling with 4% body fat, you should immediately probably take them to the hospital. I'm in the car going, if you or someone you know, God damn it, AI. God damn it. I have to live my name, you know? And so then I'm like, josh, you need to go get the people that do the pinch. You don't have 4% body fat. You need to get people that do the pinch because you've got some kind of, like, love handle situation right here.

[Ryan]

Why would you.

[Jen]

I know I was being a cunt, okay? I felt like totally casual cunt. All right? I'd own it. I own it. Shortcoming. So I'm on Instagram and Maddie has posted a picture. The aforementioned peloton fitness instructor. He's posted a picture of himself in his closet, topless and just like a total Adonis. Like, he's Italian, you know? And then he has, like, pecs in the six pack. And I go see Josh, you're. Because he claimed in the car, my body fat's lower than Maddie's. I guarantee it. And I'm like, there's no way your body fat is lower than Matt's. So I showed Josh the picture of Maddie that Maddie had posted on his story. I said, josh, look, there's no way your body fat is lower than this man's right here. And he goes, DM him right now and ask him. So I DM Maddie. And this will be the second time Josh has asked Maddie what his body fat is. And so I'm like, josh wants to know where your body fat is. And Maddie just responds, hah. With me. So anyway, sorry, sorry, that was a, a bad way to get off. But I just thought that. Yeah, follow up.

[Ryan]

Okay, here's the deal. So Josh asked him what his body fat was before he knew he was a peloton instructor. Like he could have been an executive at Golden Sachs.

[Jen]

It gets worse from there. It gets worse from there. When we were working out, we were on our own. We didn't have trainer, and we were waiting on this machine, the gluten abduction machine.

[Ryan]

Oh yeah.

[Jen]

And we're waiting on. And this guy's on there and he is as fit as a fiddle. I'm talking B, U F F, exclamation point. Gay man hot. You know, just. Gay men are just. To me, their fitness regimen just hits harder. The hygiene and all of it collectively, it's like, okay, this is a very well kept man. So Josh says to him, as he finishes the machine and we're kind of waiting, he goes, hey, you look great. What's your body fat?

[Ryan]

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

[Jen]

He never meant to ask him his name. Asked him what his body fat was. And the guy goes, the guy goes, I don't know. I don't want to know. I just know, you know, when I look good or when I don't. Meanwhile, psycho Josh goes down to the body fat machine, like every single day is there.

[Ryan]

I see.

[Jen]

I.

[Ryan]

When you said, go get the pinch body fat, I didn't know you could do a body fat other than the pinch bench.

[Jen]

So this one at our gym, you get on it and you take your shoes off and it's like a scale and then you put your hands on these like sensors.

[Ryan]

Oh, okay.

[Jen]

And it does some sort of calculation. So I was talking to Josh last night and it just, it doesn't end. We're FaceTiming and he's like, yeah, I was just on Claude trying to find out what type of body fat machine I can order the home version.

[Ryan]

So you can do it.

[Jen]

And yeah, you're just randomly asking random people, what's your body fat? And then we've got chat. GPT if you or somebody you know is suffering from. And I'm just like, this is just. This is untenable. This is just untenable. All right, listener, if you're like me, Summer is here, I'm changing apartments, I want to take my kids on vacation and I don't want to have to worry about whether I can afford it or not. That's why I want to introduce you to Monarch. Monarch is the personal finance app that tracks everything accounts, investments, saving goals and spending. Get your first year of Monarch for half off just $50 with promo code had it Most apps only tell you what you've already spent. Monarch actually helps you set goals, map out big purchases and see if you're actually on track before it's too late to make adjustments. You can spot what you wouldn't think to look with AI Insights. Has your spending gone up or is it just inflation? Also, I love this feature. You can split the check without the headache. With Monarch's bill split, just scan the receipt. Everyone claims what they got and then settles up and no separate app is needed. Listener use code had [e-mail] to get your first year half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first [e-mail] with the code had it all right, last minute panic Buyers. Mother's Day is imminent. It is upon us and you cannot go get your mother a boring robe or a boring pair of slippers that she already has many of. Go buy her an aura frame. It is a great way to mix things up from the standard Mother's Day gift. It has free unlimited storage. You basically can add as many photos and videos as you want. You can preload it in case your mother is not very tech savvy. You can preload it anytime, anywhere. You can personalize your gift and add a message before it arrives. A gift box is included. You can share your photos and videos effortlessly, download the free aura app or text photos straight to your frame. It is a top rated app. Reached number one in the App Store on Christmas Day in 2025. Listener named number one by Wirecutter. You can save on the gifts moms love by Visit frames.com for a limited time. Listeners can get $25 off their bestselling Carver Mat frame with code hat it. That's a frames.com promo code. Had it support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Okay, the looks maxing and TW Twinks magazine is 100% like reminiscent of Josh. Okay, so Dylan Latham on Twink Maxing. Here he is. Here's an excerpt from him responding to the host. Follow up questions about whether he became a twink intentionally or by accident. Latham added, I naturally am a bit more skinny. I naturally act a bit more feminine. I'm a metrosexual. And they're also embracing being called gay. Let's play the clip.

[Dylan Latham]

I just think it's really funny that gay is used as an insult, because I am not insulted by it whatsoever, because it's like the only insults that work are ones that have validity to them. So if you made fun of my blue hair, I literally couldn't even comprehend being offended because I don't have blue hair. So I don't understand the idea of using that as an insult. It really doesn't make sense, and I think I literally take it as a compliment. The gay dating market is a lot more competitive. So the average person, when they say you look gay, means that they're saying you look better than average.

[Jen]

Okay, so Ryan proposes the question, could straight male narcissism be the tool we didn't know we needed to fight homophobia? Because here's the thing, I was just talking about all these hot gay men at my gym, and it just hits different. And the dating market is more competitive, and they are way more pulled together. They're dressed better, they work out harder. The grooming is better. Everything about a gay man is better. So now are straight men looking to gay men saying hashtag goals, and will that help us with homophobia?

[Ryan]

Well, first of all, I think game straight men should strive for that, because I do, too. I mean, I think it's. It's goals, for sure. I mean, I want to strive to be as put together as a gay man, and I'm falling woefully short. But here's the thing. You look at all these manospheres, and I'll just take a couple of examples. Like a Joe Rogan super tiny, short, short, short, but really muscular. So that. That whole look, the tiny but super muscular is an immediate red flag. If I was like a male on the dating circuit, I would want to be lean and fit and well groomed and smell nice and, you know, have nice clothes and all that. I would think that would be way. I mean, as a female, I am not attracted to the super muscle because I think it just sends the whole WWE message.

[Jen]

Well, and I also think. And I know you probably think this too, like Joe Rogan, I immediately think steroids. And then we know from the science what steroids do to penises. And so then it's just an immediate. Yeah, you think shrinkage, you think soft serve, you think, you know, problems, you know, with. With rising, with erections, etc. And so. And yeah, the shrinkage and all of that. So you think, okay, so this guy wanted these big muscles but was willing to sacrifice his penis for that.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Jen]

Which is an interesting. Which is an interesting thing. For men. Because they're so penis centric. They're so centric. Right. So it's an interesting gamble to want larger muscles at the expense of your dick. Yeah.

[Ryan]

Because. Okay. But here's the thing though. I think that these people are so obsessed with their looks because I dated somebody that did steroids. And the, the penis shrinkage, it comes on gradually. So here's what I think happens. I think they think I've got these great big muscles, I look so good. And then the shrinkage happens over time. It's not just like an immediate so there for a while. You're like, I have big muscles and a big dick. And then it's like roid rage and soft serve.

[Jen]

Let's, let's, let's unpack several things here. There's, I have just a gajillion follow up questions. We're not going to get to callers today because we are going to deep dive into Woods Pumps's ex boyfriend.

[Ryan]

So it's 40 years.

[Jen]

Let me ask you this, is this college boyfriend that used steroids the same person that was your fitness trainer later in life that you, while you were married? Yes or no?

[Ryan]

Correct?

[Jen]

Yes, same person. Okay, same person. All right. All right. So was he using the steroids in college?

[Ryan]

Yes.

[Jen]

Okay, and so you said that you observe a fall off in penis size,

[Ryan]

not in, in performance.

[Jen]

Wait, you observed a fall off in performance?

[Ryan]

Yeah, I mean, just not, you know, just what? Not as stiff, you know, little. Not soft serve like when I was married. Not like that, but just softer, softer serve. Not soft serve curve, but just softer.

[Jen]

Okay, and then that infected his performance?

[Ryan]

Yeah, yeah. Overall, yes.

[Jen]

Okay, and is that what ultimately caused you to break up with him? We all know you're a size queen. You talk about no size.

[Ryan]

You're young and you just kind of flitter around.

[Jen]

Did you at the time think, boy, these steroids sure are impacting his people penis?

[Ryan]

No, like, not like during sex, you mean? Or like in real time, Just in

[Jen]

general or just like that one.

[Ryan]

It's just not as good.

[Jen]

It's just. Yeah, something's going on with his two and two together.

[Ryan]

Until later.

[Jen]

Okay. And then when you hit it again at a later date when you had the revenge affair right. On your husband. Right. Number one, I thought it was pretty, I thought your revenge affair was pretty good that you went back to your college day to school instead of having to get reacquainted with it with a new penis. You were like, you know what? I'm gonna go back to this one. So yeah. From college to adult, full blown adulthood. So you're banging him in college and then you start banging him during your revenge affair. Which I completely supported Listener, by the way. I babysit our kids when she did.

[Ryan]

It's at the kids.

[Jen]

Yeah, she's a priest. I was totally supportive of it it. Because her ex husband deserved it. But during this time, the latter time, the affair time.

[Ryan]

Okay.

[Jen]

Was it even more fallen off from the, you know, you're talking a couple of decades later here from the sustained steroid use Because I remember at the time you feeling like it was pretty good.

[Ryan]

Yeah, no, it was, it was good. But I also wanted to do it before I went to marriage counseling. So I mean I wasn't exactly in the best frame of mind. I mean I would go into marriage counseling with the ffg. Like I would set it up. If the counseling was at 10:30 in the morning. I would set the sex up with the. At night is up. I mean that's just not normal crazy ass like that. So I'm not in the best position to judge. But I don't. I think the sex was good in adult. I don't think there were any problems later in the.

[Jen]

Okay, and do you think that the, the steroid use was sustained during all of this time or do you think maybe he.

[Ryan]

No, no, I don't think so. Because it, it really makes you pretty like I mean it after a while you kind of get crazy a little bit.

[Jen]

And, and, and how do you know this? You observed this?

[Ryan]

Yeah, I mean just angrier, quicker to anger reactions were more intense. You know, it was pretty obvious probably after like.

[Jen]

Doesn't it cause a bunch of acne?

[Ryan]

I didn't notice that. But I, I definitely noticed a change in personality.

[Jen]

I think this is far, I think this is far better for the straight man. They need to get off the steroids and look to the gay men for inspiration for hygiene, fashion, fitness. Because gay men, I will say you rarely see like a bulky, hardly ever two big gay men. Like they are fit and they can have some bulk to them, but it's, it's a lean, attractive bulk. I don't like a huge Arnold Schwarzenegger. It's just not attractive at all.

[Ryan]

No, it's not. In fact, there's this guy. Okay, so speaking of this. So there's this guy at my gym, he's a trainer and he is so attractive.

[Jen]

Have you had sex with him?

[Ryan]

He smells.

[Jen]

No, I wish.

[Ryan]

He smells great. And so this whole time that I've been going to the gym. I thought he was gay. And so I asked my trainer, should I go, is he, is he. Because I was going to take one of his classes and I was like, it's. He gained. He's. She's like, no, he just got married. And I was like, to a woman. She was like, yeah. And I go, I'm so shocked because he has everything together. Great body, great outfits, great smell, great look, very polished. You just don't find a straight man that hits all those cylinders very often.

[Jen]

Did you not ask any follow up questions after that or you just said that and that was the end of the conversation?

[Ryan]

No, we were just talking about how good he smells and his workouts.

[Jen]

Here's the error, here's the error you made. You're in the Bible belt. And if I had been in your, if I had been there, I would have immediately pulled up with follow up questions and said, is he religious? And if she would have said, oh, yes, he's very religious and he goes to the megachurch and he's up there and he's the worship leader, whatever they call it. We're going to worship practice, praise practice. And he's the praise practice coach. You immediately know he's as gay as all get out. So in the Bible belt, when you see a man that is overtly metrosexual, you have to follow up with questions about their religious beliefs because oftentimes they're in hiding. He could, he could still very much be gay.

[Ryan]

I'm just saying I'm going to follow up tomorrow.

[Jen]

You need to follow up. If he goes to a mega church, if he goes to a megachurch, I'm telling you, G A Y, exclamation point, neon sign. Don't you think, Ryan? It's just, it's just now I am, I'm married to a metrosexual.

[Ryan]

Right?

[Jen]

I, oh my God. And in New York, there's every straight man up here is metrosexual. It's challenged my, it's challenged my gaydar a lot. Yeah, it's still excellent. It's still really, really good. Really good. But it's challenged it a bit because in Oklahoma it was super easy because. Yeah. Super obvious. But I do, I do think you need to follow up and report back with us because I, I support lifting up gay men and their embrace of fashion, hygiene, fitness, diet, all of the stuff that they do. I support straight men looking to that as hashtag inspo.

[Ryan]

Agree.

[Jen]

I just think it, it, it's great. I think it's absolutely fantastic. And I support it completely. And I think that might be all we have.

[Ryan]

We've gotten down some crazy today.

[Jen]

Yeah, we have. We absolutely have. Kylie, do you have anything you would like to add before we go off?

[Kylie]

I. I think that that's all I can think of. I think we covered things I didn't imagine talking about today.

[Jen]

I'm just glad that we're highlighting something that is a real problem in. In the world, not just the United States. The. The.

[Kylie]

The.

[Jen]

The girls night out. You're friends with a lesbian couple. How do you tiptoe into that without creating a massive situation and resentment?

[Ryan]

Like if you said no spouses and the girl thought you were like, the wife thought you were friends. Like, if Kylie's my friend and she and I don't invite on it, but Anna thought we were friends, then it creates resentment. So. Yeah, that's a minefield child. I just can't imagine who wouldn't want Kylie and Anna.

[Kylie]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

Luckily for us, perfect pairing.

[Kylie]

We don't have to worry about this problem.

[Jen]

Yeah. But you know, sometimes.

[Kylie]

What if we want to go separately?

[Jen]

Here's the thing, though. Here's the thing. It's not that you don't want Anna. It's sometimes you want a night where nobody is with their significant other. Agree. And lesbians, at least the ones that I know, have a real tendency for PDF, they cannot help themselves. There is a lot of lesbian pda, which I support, and I really don't support pda, but because they're lesbians. I make a caveat for that. But you go out to this dinner or bar or whatever it is, and then you've got a couple of Leslies over there holding hands, arms around each other. Suge, babe. Honey, you like? We kind of wanted to go out to not hear all of that tonight.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Jen]

I just think it's something that we need to talk about. And I would like the let the Lestrates in this cult to comment about this in the comment section because I like to highlight hashtag lesbian issues. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kylie]

And not enough people are doing that.

[Ryan]

No.

[Jen]

Is any other podcast doing this?

[Kylie]

No.

[Ryan]

Is any other trailblazers.

[Jen]

Do you think anybody else is talking about this?

[Kylie]

I think this is probably the most lesbian lesbian podcast on the Internet.

[Jen]

I agree. America's top DEI podcast. America's top lesbian podcast. America's top. Let me check notes. Twinks maxing contest.

[Ryan]

Twinks maxing. I would definitely be in on that. A contest.

[Kylie]

You know, pumps kind of butch Maxes.

[Jen]

I do you kind of.

[Kylie]

Kind of butch Max Max I'm a softball. I mean, the whole nine.

[Jen]

Yeah, the softball.

[Ryan]

I'm doing it on the other end. I was ahead of my time.

[Jen]

You were the softball. Shit's wild.

[Ryan]

Love it.

[Jen]

Yeah, she loves it. Didn't you go down to, like, some hotel and, like, cheer them on? Like, they walk. They're like, way to go, Josie.

[Ryan]

Yeah, way to go.

[Jen]

And you call them all by their first names?

[Ryan]

Absolutely. We're friends.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Ryan]

Couple. Yeah.

[Jen]

I love it. I. I love it. I think it's great. Pumps. I love your lesbian attitud advocacy. Sports advocacy. All right. Speaking of ad advocacy, go to single screen. Pre order my book, not today, Fascist. Where's my hat? You have a choice. You can say, today, fascist, or you can say, not today, fascist. And this choice will go on and on and on, on and on. Okay, seriously, in all seriousness, buy my book, pre order my book, not today, Fascists. By the way, I think Erica Kirk is a fascist, and I don't mention her in this book, unfortunately. I need to do it. Rewrite every right. But it's off to printing now. Please pre order. It helps me more than you know. And make sure you are subscribed to your here. Leave us a comment and follow us on all the places. And we have a. We drop content all the time. Oh, here's something super important. This is like our funny podcast. And the news podcast is I Hip News. So make sure you're subscribed there as well. All right, that's all we have. I'll tell you what I've had it with. Let's hear it.

[Ryan]

I've had it with that.