Remembering Charlie Kirk

Summary

Jack Hibbs Podcast – "Remembering Charlie Kirk"

Host: Jack Hibbs
Guest: Dr. Frank Turek
Release Date: May 28, 2026

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Overview

This deeply emotional and reflective episode serves as both a tribute to Charlie Kirk after his assassination and a candid discussion between Jack Hibbs and longtime friend Dr. Frank Turek. The two reminisce about Charlie’s final days and the impact he made as a Christian leader, activist, and friend. The conversation covers Charlie’s zeal for truth, his faith journey, the theological questions surrounding Israel, Christian citizenship and political engagement, and the wave of good and evil responses following Charlie’s death. Frank and Jack also touch on the conspiracy theories that followed the assassination, reaffirming their trust in God’s sovereignty and their commitment to Charlie’s legacy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Day of the Assassination

• Setting the Scene
  • Frank Turek recounts traveling with Charlie to UVU (Utah Valley University), sensing unease about the venue:

    "Charlie gets footage on his phone of the crowd… I said, 'Charlie, I don't like this place. There's too many buildings.'" — Frank (00:43)

• Immediate Aftermath & Prayer Response
  • Jack received frantic calls from both his brother and Mikey:

    “He said, 'Jack, get everyone in the world praying. There's so much blood.'” — Jack (00:56, 06:05)

  • Frank, present at the scene, recounts being in the ER and FaceTiming Jack, visibly marked with blood.

2. Charlie's Final Days & Priorities

• Last Conversations & Mentorship
  • Frank and Charlie spent Charlie’s final walk discussing the most pressing cultural challenges:
    1. The threat of Islam and Sharia law in the US
    2. Defending the resurrection succinctly in Q&A
    3. The decline of marriage and the future of the family, church, and government (20:54)
• Charlie as a Learner and Leader
  • Both guests recall Charlie’s humility and hunger for truth:

    "The only thing that exceeded his intellect was his humility." — Frank (10:33) "You could not walk away from his hunger and passion for truth." — Jack (10:38)

• Charlie embraced the call for Christians to impact all spheres of society, not just “church topics”:

  "[2019ish] was probably when he really realized that a Christian should be a Christian 24/7, 365, in every area of life." — Frank (09:55)

3. Charlie's Faith, Influence, and Legacy

• Impact in 31 Years
  • Frank marvels at Charlie’s short yet immensely impactful life:

    "He accomplished more in 31 years than any 10,000 people I know who have lived for 80." — Frank (12:02) "There are people who can say they've been a Christian for 60 years, but they've got about one year experience that repeats..." — Jack (12:29)

• The Mentor Dynamic
  • Mentors like Jack, Frank, Bill Federer, Dennis Prager, etc., poured into Charlie, honoring his willingness to learn and grow.

4. Standing for Israel and Theological Foundations

• Defending and Defining Support for Israel
  • Charlie was clear-minded on blessing Israel without always endorsing the secular government:

    "If you want to bless somebody, you tell them the truth. If you wanna bless your child, you don't agree with everything your child does." — Frank (26:41) "If God doesn't keep his promises to Israel, then we have no promises as a church." — Jack (25:38)

• Scriptural Prophecy & Modern Events
  • The conversation covers biblical prophecies regarding the scattering and regathering of Israel, notably referencing Genesis, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Amos, and Romans 9–11.
• Countering Anti-Semitism and False Narratives
  • Both emphasize Charlie’s deep, studied support for Israel and frustration with conspiratorial or anti-Semitic readings of his stances, challenging listeners to grasp biblical nuance and reject hate-driven misinformation.

5. Confronting Evil and the Aftermath

• Conspiracy Theories and Evil Post-Assassination
  • Both Jack and Frank are direct about the slander, accusation, and even demonic nature of conspiracies targeting Erica Kirk and TPUSA after Charlie’s murder.

    "They're attacking a widow and they don't care. A widow." — Frank (47:27)
    "The Holy Spirit who dwells within a Christian would never allow those kinds of words or actions." — Jack (48:22)

• Call for Truth and Discernment
  • Biblical principles for judgment and discernment, not blind accusation or gossip, are repeatedly emphasized (Deuteronomy 19, Exodus 22, Proverbs 27).

6. Courage, Self-Defense, and Christian Citizenship

• On Courage
  • Courage is a theme Charlie often expressed and lived out:

    "Courage doesn't take any skill... all you gotta do is make a decision." — Frank (44:19)

• Christian Engagement in Politics
  • Deep concern expressed over Christians’ disengagement from civic responsibility:

    "40 million Christians don't vote. They gripe, they moan, they complain, but they don't get off their spectator." — Jack (57:04) “Do you think that Christians back in the 1800s should have gotten politically involved to eradicate slavery… so why is it any different now?” — Frank (57:31)

• The Biblical Role of Government
  • They tie the Second Amendment and self-defense rights to biblical “natural law,” arguing that both free speech and the right to defend oneself are imbued by God (55:14).

7. Charlie's Unique Character & Erica’s Resilience

• Personal Recollections
  • Both agree on Charlie’s rare combination of courage, humility, intelligence, and kindness.

    "I'm trying to remember if I heard him say something wrong… I cannot remember if Charlie was short or in a bad mood." — Jack (63:01)

• Erica Kirk's Forgiveness and Strength
  • Erica's public forgiveness of the attacker just nine days after the assassination is called “superhero” level:

    "She forgives Tyler Robinson at the memorial service only nine days later. I mean, she's a superhero." — Frank (63:37)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the magnitude of Charlie’s passing:

  “It was the largest evangelistic event in history. I still get emails from people saying, I became a Christian because of Charlie Kirk… It's eight months later… It's a tsunami, not just a ripple.” — Frank (46:58)

• On spiritual realities underlying public reactions:

  “People don't believe in the demonic, Jack. How could it be more obvious? … Lies, accusations, and slander.” — Frank (47:33)

• On Charlie’s Christ-like living:

  “Paul said it this way. Emulate me as I emulate Christ. We're not saying Charlie was perfect… But he had such good qualities… Let’s emulate those.” — Frank (62:46)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|--------------------------------------------------| | 00:39 | Recounting the moments leading up to the shooting | | 06:39 | Jack receives the news, initial emotional response | | 08:12 | How Jack processed and addressed the event publicly| | 09:55 | Charlie's 2019 faith transformation | | 17:32 | Frank details their final walk and key discussions| | 20:54 | Three key issues Charlie wanted to address | | 23:09 | Charlie’s role in defending Israel | | 30:41 | The promise to Israel and prophetic significance | | 44:19 | Charlie’s views and example of courage | | 46:56 | The global impact of Charlie's memorial | | 62:36 | Erica’s request not to let Charlie’s legacy die | | 63:01 | Jack’s testimony of Charlie’s Christlike character| | 63:37 | Erica forgives the assassin |

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Final Reflections & Takeaways

• Charlie Kirk’s legacy is both one of activism and deep faith, serving as a model for others to take up.
• The episode calls for courage, discernment, and action—not just sentiment—in engaging the world as Christians, in truth and in love.
• Jack and Frank challenge listeners to reject apathy, gossip, and conspiracy, urging a faith that boldly steps into public life and stands for truth, righteousness, and the “big three” biblical institutions—government, church, and family.
• Erica Kirk’s grace under fire is highlighted as a Christ-like example, alongside Charlie’s remarkable, all-too-brief race.

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Episode tone: Candid, emotional, unapologetically bold in faith and worldview, with a sense of urgency for Christian involvement in culture and public life.

Transcript

[Jack Hibbs]

Why does God sometimes say yes, sometimes wait, and sometimes no? In why doesn't God answer my prayers? Trusted Bible teacher Dr. Erwin Lutzer offers biblical wisdom for one of life's hardest questions. Through scripture, he reminds us that God's silence is never indifference. Request your copy today with a gift of any amount to Real Life. Visit jackkibbs.com or call 877-777-2346. Real Life presents the Jack Hibbs Podcast. With intention and boldness to proclaim truth, equip the saints, and impact our culture.

[Jack]

The moments leading up to Charlie Kirk's assassination.

[Frank Turek]

We're on our way to UVU that morning in the car, Charlie gets footage on his phone of the crowd. He shows it to me. I'm looking at it. It's like an amphitheater. I said to him, charlie, I don't like this place. There's too many buildings.

[Jack]

I either got the first call from you or from Mikey. He said, jack, get everyone in the world praying. There's so much blood.

[Jack Hibbs]

You can get the outlines of this podcast by going to jackibbs.com podcast today. If this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more fulfilled life in Christ, then make sure you leave us one of those five star ratings. To us, that's. That's like saying amen or yes, then that rating will encourage others to listen. Now open your hearts to what God's word has to say to you. Here is Jack Hibbs.

[Jack]

So this is not only a cathartic moment for you and I that we've decided to make public here in this podcast, but the moments leading up to Charlie Kirk's assassination. I say martyrdom. You agree with that? I know you and I haven't had a chance to talk. You've been so busy since that moment, and we both enjoyed a friendship with him. You hit the ground running to fill that gap in the void. And you've been doing an amazing job. And I went the other way. So many people were talking about Charlie, and everybody was his friend and longtime buddy, and everybody was his pastor. And I just kind of stepped back in the sense of just watching things play out, but trying to honor, you know, a friend, a young man in the faith where. What comes to my mind, Frank, is not that I'm a Paul or that you are a Paul, but Charlie would have looked at us like a Paul, him being the Timothy. And he was such a precious student of the word. But let's talk.

[Frank Turek]

The amazing thing that day that the last picture that I took with Charlie, your Brother was between us because when we got to UVU and got out of the suv, he was there. And Charlie took pictures with all the TPUSA kids that were lined up. And then your brother was there, and he goes, I'm Jack Kibbs, brother.

[Jack]

That's why they wanted to throw him out.

[Frank Turek]

You called him a mountain man. What's his name again? Butch.

[Jack]

Butch is his nickname.

[Frank Turek]

Butch? Yeah. But that's not his real. What's his real name?

[Jack]

Burton.

[Frank Turek]

Burton, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he introduced himself. And the last picture, formal picture, that probably Charlie took, was with him and me.

[Jack]

Here's the backstory to that. So my brother's lived in Utah for years, and we have to make sure that this doesn't get out. But he looks like a mountain man, and he's all over the terrain.

[Frank Turek]

I'm gonna give you the picture. You can put it in.

[Jack]

You know, some people would say that he is a covert military operative for the CIA and in conjunction with the Mossad. He loves the mountains. So he had months to reach out to me to say, hey, can you give me a chance to meet Charlie and to get a decent seat? But no, he calls me the night before.

[Frank Turek]

Oh, yeah.

[Jack]

And he says, hey, can you. And I said, well, I mean, I'll give Charlie a call, but it's kind of late, you know, and all that stuff. And I'm thinking. So I honestly reached out to Charlie, said, charlie, listen, my brother lives nearby. He wants to come see you. I know that's just. You got too much going on right now. But I was faithful to give you his request. God bless you tomorrow. And so the next thing I know, that's how I found out, is that he sent me that picture. And my first thought was this. Wow, I gotta thank Charlie for going above and beyond and for you, Frank, to be there. Here's my brother sandwiched in between two rocks. And then. So I went about my morning. Not long. And I'm trying to remember the sequence of things. I either got the first call from you or from Mikey. It was one or the other. It was very, very close. I do believe you were the first one.

[Frank Turek]

That was after we got to the hospital.

[Jack]

Okay. Then I got the first call from Mikey.

[Frank Turek]

I was in the emergency room. After we got Charlie there, I called you.

[Jack]

I remember what you were saying.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Okay. So Mikey called and he said. He said, jack, get everyone in the world praying. There's so much blood. There's so much. And he was beside himself, as you can imagine, man, in that moment when I got that, I didn't believe it.

[Frank Turek]

Then I FaceTimed you. I faced. We were talking. He saw I had blood on me.

[Jack]

You. So my brother. My brother calls and he can't talk. He said, charlie's been shot. Now, listen, I have. I have a relative whose name's Charlie, and he's very involved in politics, and he's all over the United States. And I thought it was Charlie. Cousin Charlie got shot. And I said. And I actually said, what did he do now? What did he do now? And he said, charlie Kirk got shot. And I said, what? And he couldn't. He just broke down. I actually hung up on him and I started making calls. Your call came in, which was a FaceTime call, and. Yeah. You had blood on you. Yeah, that's still. I haven't Just thought. I don't even know if I've meditated on all of that, but. And then, of course, I went, because it was online everywhere. I saw the whole thing, and.

[Frank Turek]

But you right away got a prayer chain going. And then that happened at about 12:30, Utah time. And so that's within six hours, you were preaching about it.

[Jack]

That's right. That's right. And that message that night was, well done, Charlie Kirk. And, you know, as horrific as that martyrdom was, that assassination was. We know that Charlie didn't feel a thing.

[Frank Turek]

No.

[Jack]

He went from doing what he loved the absolute most to entering glory painlessly, instantly. And I think of the mercy of God and the goodness of God in that. But the young man we were talking before going on camera right now, how there was a transformative shift in Charlie's life regarding faith. I don't mean he came to faith.

[Frank Turek]

He came to faith in the fifth grade.

[Jack]

Yeah, yeah. What I mean is there was a transformation in him seeing that Christianity is viable in any sphere, in any culture at all times. And Charlie, we had hours of elongated discussions over Jack. How do you biblically justify voter registration and voting? How do you do that? Everybody I talk to tells me that I need to talk to you guys, because you guys, with Gina Gleason leading the spear on this, you guys have been doing this for decades. How do you do this? How do you. What's the deal? And he honestly was asking, you know, you know this. He was always so teachable.

[Frank Turek]

Right.

[Jack]

And Charlie, this is the reason why. These are the verses. Why? And instead of him saying, yeah, but that's one man's interpretation, Charlie said, I didn't know that. And you watched that. I think you said before Cameron, like, 2019ish.

[Frank Turek]

2019ish is probably when he really realized that a Christian should be a Christian. 24, 7, 365, 360 degrees, every area of life. And he reached out to me in January 2020, saying he had been watching our videos and was blessed by them. Could we meet. And so we met shortly thereafter, and he wanted me to mentor him in Christian apologetics. And as you know, Jack, it could be difficult to mentor someone smarter than you. But not in Charlie's case. You know, the few things I didn't know, he wanted to know because the only thing that exceeded his intellect was his humility, right?

[Jack]

Remarkably so, yeah.

[Frank Turek]

And he had many mentors. You were a mentor. He had mentors everywhere.

[Jack]

He was smart. He had men pouring into his life. And the great thing about Charlie, it's not that we. I mean, look, I mean, I'm not taking anything away from him. I'm doing the opposite. But you and I are both busy people. Charlie never came to us and said, please, please, pretty please, will you mentor me? Will you be my pal? Why you. And I responded, and so many people responded to him as mentors is that you could not walk away from his hunger and passion for truth.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah, no. I told him several times, I've been waiting for somebody like you for 30 years. When I started to get. When I went to seminary 30 something years ago, I said, where is the guy out there who is so connected in the secular world but will never compromise on the gospel and will ensure that the two go together? That he wants to influence the secular world with the gospel, politically, culturally, morally, socially? He wanted to do that. And I. You know, you see Christians in politics all the time, and they mention God in a kind of an ambiguous way. You know, they don't. They kind of sidestep Jesus. They sidestep the gospel.

[Jack]

Yeah, it's terrible.

[Frank Turek]

Charlie was just like a blowtorch right on it. And he's going to get rewards ultimately for that.

[Jack]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[Frank Turek]

And I know right now he senses, wow, for 31 years. In fact, I said this at. I don't know if it was at the memorial or at Amfest. I said it was tragic that Charlie was taken from us after 31 years, but he accomplished more in 31 years than any 10,000 people I know who have lived for 80.

[Jack]

Exactly correct.

[Frank Turek]

It's equally tragic, perhaps more so, to live 80 years and do nothing for the Lord.

[Jack]

I had this similar thought, and I framed it this way in my own head. There are people who can Say that they've been a Christian for, say, 60 years, but they've got about one year experience that repeats about every. About every year. It's the same thing. They don't grow beyond the one year, but they've been a Christian for 60 years. And hey, Paul said to the Corinthians, you're going to make it in. You're going to make it in. And then there are those who, like Charlie, lived a short period of time, but they put down about maybe 100 years of influence of experience in 31 years.

[Frank Turek]

I remember you said something right after this happened, Jack. I've never forgotten it. You said if Charlie lived 250 years ago, he'd be normal. Do you remember saying that?

[Jack]

Of course I do. Yes, I do.

[Frank Turek]

Explain that. Explain that.

[Jack]

Yeah. So Charlie's understanding, which you just articulated, about the gospel not being parsed out or segregated to areas of life, but everywhere. You and I have read our Founding Fathers. In fact, I'm sometimes more at home reading my Founding Fathers private papers because I feel like I know them and they're dead. So they can't change their mind, they can't go woke and they don't have a podcast. So that's really great. So when you looked at Charlie, in my mind, I dropped him into maybe, I don't know, 1770-1774-7617-8089. Charlie fit perfectly. He would have been John Adams and him would have been best of friends. They were so much alike that way. Yeah, normal.

[Frank Turek]

And Adams knew that our government was made for only our constitution was made for only religious and moral people. It's inadequate. Wholly inadequate, wholly inadequ.

[Jack]

For the governance of any other. Yeah, completely true.

[Frank Turek]

And Charlie knew that.

[Jack]

Yeah, he knew that.

[Frank Turek]

Charlie wanted to spread the gospel and save his country.

[Jack]

Yeah. You know, one of the. We have a mutual friend. Gosh, I'm kind of in freak out right now, so let's kind of exaggerate this in a sanctified form. Here's Charlie Kirk. And by the workings of God, there are people that are coming into Charlie's life by whatever means it happened. And you can name them, but my lane is so narrow. But in that lane, there's the man, Frank Turek, that I've known for so long and good friend. And so Charlie winds up, somehow you guys wind up connecting. And then either you or I or somebody said, you gotta. Charlie, you gotta talk to Bill Federer.

[Frank Turek]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, wait, what just keeps expanding and then.

[Jack]

So it's Turek, it's Federer, it's prager. It's all of these people pouring into this man.

[Frank Turek]

That's right.

[Jack]

And that's just the hand of God. And so you said that. So. Yeah, I mean, he's a perfect example that if we're open and willing to learn. Because remember, Charlie would say, learn something new every day. Just learn something new every day.

[Frank Turek]

The wise listen, he would say, oh

[Jack]

yeah, those are just paraphrased right out of proverbs.

[Frank Turek]

Those are just proverbs. Yeah.

[Jack]

But can you. Are you comfortable enough to share some of your. You guys walked a lot.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Are you okay to be in public?

[Frank Turek]

Sure.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Frank Turek]

We. In the summer of 2025, Charlie wanted to get ready for the tour. And the first event was Utah. And so on four occasions he and I got together in Phoenix. We would just sit around and talk about issues. He wanted to talk about that. He wanted to be better at answering questions on campus. And sometimes it would be just him and me, sometimes it'd be me, Mikey, Blake, Neff, Danny, Phillip. These are people in tpusa. And the last event we had was he went out to Japan. I don't know if you remember this. He went to Japan and Korea. Absolutely right. Like in the beginning of September. And we were together in the beginning of August for the third event. And he said, hey Frank, the first event is September 10th, and I'm gonna be in Japan and Korea like on

[Jack]

the 9th or something.

[Frank Turek]

Nuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just a couple days before he said, is there any chance you can come back to Phoenix? When I land on the 7th, then, you know, the 8th and the 9th we could spend together. And then why don't you just come with me to the first event on the 10th? It's like, sure, we'll figure it out. I'll be there. So I was there. And it just so happens my mother in law lives in Scottsdale and so I can bring Stephanie with me and.

[Jack]

Worked great.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah, it'll work out. We would get together during the day for a couple hours, two, three hours. And you know, he'd be working, I'd be working. And then we'd get together and then after he and Erica put the kids down, he'd say, hey, let's go on a walk. And we'd do this every time I was in Phoenix and the last walk we had was Monday night. The murder happened on Wednesday and we probably walked for 90 minutes. Always with a 300 pound bodyguard behind us, armed bodyguard. We'd walk around his neighborhood and there are three things we talked about that Night, Jack. We spent most of our time on the 1st was of course, Government and Islam. He's concerned about Islam coming and imposing Sharia law on us. And we all ought to be concerned about that because that's the history of Islam.

[Jack]

Another name that goes in there. He reached out to me sometime before that and I connected him with Jay Smith.

[Frank Turek]

Jay Smith, yes. And Apostate Prophet Ridvir Adaman. Adamir. Ridvan Adamir, who I've become friendly with and had him on the show several times. So he had ap on. We call him Apostate Prophet. And Jay's amazing too, in any event. So we're talking about that. I talked a little bit with him about the Islamic dilemma. You know, the Islamic dilemma. You know, if you get a Muslim up there, you ought to ask the Muslim, why does the Quran say obey the Bible? On one hand, yet another hand it says, fill them all. It disagrees with the Bible. It says Jesus didn't rise from the dead.

[Jack]

Jesus is the Word. He had a beginning. And it's limited.

[Frank Turek]

No, it's a dilemma they can't get out of. And there are two chapters right next to one another. In Surah 5, 68, it says, O ye people of the Book, you have no ground to stand on unless you stand on the Torah and the Gospel. So it's saying to the Jews and Christians at the time, believe what the Bible says. Yet in the chapter before, in Surah 1, Surah 4, 157, it says, Jesus didn't rise from the dead because he didn't die. He was taken straight to heaven.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

He wasn't crucified. So here's the problem for the Muslims. If the Bible's true, we know the Quran is false.

[Jack]

But if the Bible's false, the Quran

[Frank Turek]

is still false because it's telling them

[Jack]

it leans on the Scripture.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah. Yeah. So Muslims don't know how to get out of that. So Charlie and I talked about that quite a bit that night. The second thing he wanted to talk about was the Resurrection and how can we show in a succinct way during Q and A that the Resurrection really occurred? So we went through that.

[Jack]

Yes. I love it. And you've argued that wonderfully in your messages.

[Frank Turek]

Sure. And there's really only two facts you need to show to show that Christianity is true, mere Christianity. Number one, God exists. Number two, Jesus rose from the dead. If those two things are true, it's actually easy to show the Bible as the word of God.

[Jack]

Rest of it's downhill.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah. It's downhill. It's easy. So we talked about that for a while. Then the last thing we talked about, Jack, and we were doing laps on the top of his building talking about this. He was really concerned that his generation was not embracing marriage. The men were, the women were not. And he said, I'm glad the men are moving in marriage's direction, but the women are not. And why are they gonna listen to me? And everybody out there who is a woman talking about this is a career woman. They could see the mild contradiction.

[Jack]

Exactly.

[Frank Turek]

So we didn't come up with a solution to that problem that night. But ironically, it could be that Erica, once this trial is over and all this nonsense that's being talked about with conspiracy theories goes away, hopefully it will. She's going to be the one that women are going to look to and say, wow, look at how she has handled herself through all this, with grace and elegance. And all she wanted to do was take care of her children. And she's still taking care of her children, even though she's doing what her husband wanted her to do. But stop. And it didn't dawn on me until after this happened, Jack. Charlie was talking about the three institutions that God established. He was talking about government.

[Jack]

Government. He was talking about church. Church and marriage.

[Frank Turek]

No, no, no. Yeah. Government, church, and marriage.

[Jack]

That's the family. The three sacred institutions found in the scripture.

[Frank Turek]

He was such a strategic thinker that when we're having a conversation about the issues that he wants to get better at, he automatically goes to the big three.

[Jack]

I believe that's evidence of a sanctified heart and mind. The Holy Spirit was welcomed to use him. And thus Charlie thought and talked the truth of scripture.

[Frank Turek]

And he knew something that you said many years ago, and that was, don't be two thirds of a Christian.

[Jack]

Oh, yes.

[Frank Turek]

Don't be just about marriage and the church. I mean, that's important. Family, church, obviously. But don't forget about government. God established government. And God put government in place to punish wrongdoers and protect innocent people from evil. And if we don't do that, we are giving up on God's institution.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

So, Charlie. Wow.

[Jack]

Yep.

[Frank Turek]

And that final night, that's what he was talking about.

[Jack]

Jack, man.

[Frank Turek]

That's what he was talking about. And let me add one other thing. And this, by the way, is all gonna be in a book that we just wrote, doesn't come out till September, called the War on Reality.

[Jack]

Great.

[Frank Turek]

Recovering Truth in a world that celebrates lies. The first chapter is all about what we're talking about right now, the whole book's in honor of. Charlie started writing it before the whole book shifted after the murder I mentioned to you.

[Jack]

Sorry.

[Frank Turek]

No, I just want to complete the thought. Because the next day. So Monday night, we're out on a walk. Next day, September 9th, Charlie calls a meeting, a scheduled Zoom meeting with two officials in Israel, one Jewish defender of Israel in the United States. I'm in the room with Charlie. Blake's in the room. Mikey's in and out. What do you think we're talking about, Jack?

[Jack]

I know.

[Frank Turek]

We are talking about how the propaganda war against Israel is gaining ground, even though it's all lies and deception. And Charlie is asking these guys, how can I better defend the truth regarding Israel? You guys helped me with that.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

I was in this meeting. It lasted 50 minutes. This idea that Charlie was giving up on Israel is false.

[Jack]

Not only is it false, but. I'm gonna be off on time. I'll just say this before that, Charlie had asked me. It's the cutest thing ever. My phone rang. It's Charlie. What's up? Hey, can you give me a sermon that you've done that just kind of brings everything together about Israel's existence and the promises of God and its future? And I said, no. I said, charlie, you're talking great questions, buddy. You're talking about. You're talking about sermons from the Bible. I don't have a sermon. I have hundreds of sermons on this. And he goes, well, I'm boning up on this quick. I need something. And I told him, I said, look, you read like a fish swims through water. And I told him to get Israelogy by Arnold Frutenbaum. Oh, Fruchtenbaum. Rightenbaum.

[Frank Turek]

Of course, yes.

[Jack]

Read the book and the other book. I forget who the author is, but it's called Startup Nation. But he wrote those down. He said, I'm writing them down. And I sent him a couple of. You may not remember this guy. He was a West coast guy, but a guy by the name of Chuck Missler.

[Frank Turek]

I know Chuck. I was in Israel with Chuck.

[Jack]

My gosh.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Oh, my gosh. Chuck Missler had tremendous logic and scripture on. In fact, I got this. I say this, but I don't give Chuck the credit. If God doesn't keep his promises to Israel, then we have no promises as a church. I got that from him. And so. Yeah, yeah, no, no. The audience needs to know that. I don't care what people are saying about Charlie. They're using him. They pimped him to try to advance their own anti Semitic views or hatred or whatever it is about Israel. And they tried to use him. And that's a very, very. It's beyond sin.

[Frank Turek]

Here is a distinction we talked about. And Charlie, in fact, when I said this to him, he said, wow, this is worth the whole trip because we're talking about blessing Israel. Now. What does that mean? Does that mean that you have to agree with everything the secular government says?

[Jack]

No.

[Frank Turek]

And I said, no, that's not what it means.

[Jack]

Exactly.

[Frank Turek]

Because if you want to bless somebody, you tell them the truth. If you wanna bless your child, you don't agree with everything your child does.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

You acknowledge and you protect the existence of the child.

[Jack]

You still feed him.

[Frank Turek]

Yes, yes.

[Jack]

You might get disciplined, but you still feed them.

[Frank Turek]

That's right.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

So, I mean, what's the proverb, Jack? I think it's in Proverbs 27. It says. It says, wounds from a friend are good, but an enemy multiplies kisses.

[Jack]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always, always. So wounds, compliments.

[Frank Turek]

You want w. From a friend?

[Jack]

Yes.

[Frank Turek]

You want people to tell you when you're off base.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

So we talked about that and he said, wow, that really opens it up. Because I thought blessing meant you had

[Jack]

to agree with everything.

[Frank Turek]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Jack]

Where did that come from, by the way? Let's be honest.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah.

[Jack]

I nor you have ever thought that Genesis 12:1 and 2 meant that. We never thought that. We never thought, well, bless Israel no

[Frank Turek]

matter what, they do have to agree with them.

[Jack]

Where did you get that thinking? That's a bizarre thought. Well, of course not. You don't agree with everything.

[Frank Turek]

One other objection that comes up. Well, you can't support them. They're apostate.

[Jack]

Hey, so is 90% of the church. No, no, but I was thinking of the pulpits of America.

[Frank Turek]

I was going to say Jack or Charlie.

[Jack]

Hilarious.

[Frank Turek]

Charlie. Charlie. Every king of the northern kingdom was apostate. And only a handful from Judah were good. And God still valued their existence. But there was a point where he said, that's enough. You're gonna be judged.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Frank Turek]

You know the nation of Israel as it stands now, might be judged.

[Jack]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Frank Turek]

It could go out of existence and come back again.

[Jack]

We know this, we know this from Scripture, that 2,000 years ago they were dispersed throughout all the world. And God says, now just what are the chances? 2,000 years ago they're dispersed throughout all the world. Deuteronomy 28 said that that's what would happen if they rejected his law, his word, Personify his word, the nation, the national leaders. A lot of people think this is sad that on the day of Palm Sunday, when the people shouted, hosanna. Hosanna. And then by the end of the week, they're yelling, crucify him. Crucify him. There's some lazy theology there where we automatically think, because it sounds kind of cute, everybody who welcomed him on Palm Sunday turned around and said, crucify him. Later that week. We don't know that. It doesn't say the same crowd. There could have been a mix. Here's what we know, is that the national leaders of Israel refused Christ as king. But even that was prophesied would happen, right? Say, Jack. Why do you say that? Because on the day of Pentecost, the church was a bunch of Jews.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah. This is why I say the church was Jewish. This is why I say.

[Jack]

And then it went to the world.

[Frank Turek]

This is why I say. People say, well, I can't trust those. I can't trust this book because it was written by Christians. No, it wasn't. There are no Christian sources in the Bible.

[Jack]

Exactly.

[Frank Turek]

They all started as Jews and they

[Jack]

didn't walk around with the New Testament. Yeah. Paul turns. Let me go to Thessalonians.

[Frank Turek]

Right.

[Jack]

So the thing is this, that God has made these promises, and the first start is glorious. Because in Genesis 3:15, he says. I'm paraphrasing now. I mean, I can quote it exact, but the meaning, I'll paraphrase, is, hey, things are messed up. Thank you, Adam and Eve. Boy, you sure ruined this whole gig. However, I have a plan. From your seed. The Messiah will come. Capital S, The. The faithful one. Or the Messiah will come, the anointed one. And by the way, when he comes, he's going to crush the head of the serpent, the seed of the serpent. That's the first, in fact, first prophecy.

[Frank Turek]

You know what?

[Jack]

Thank you for saying that. People say, I don't want to talk about Bible prophecy. Oh, you have to, because the first, they're inseparable. Frank, listen, you already know this. What am I getting excited about?

[Frank Turek]

No, no, it's exciting for everyone.

[Jack]

Let's go. Genesis 3:15 is the first so terror logical verse in the Bible. And it's also the first eschatological verse in the Bible. Prophecy and salvation are inseparable because the Spirit of Revelation 19:10 says, the Spirit. Jesus Christ is the spirit of prophecy. Think of that. Jesus Christ is salvation. It's the Same. The same author that said God will keep his promises to Israel. But remember, he says a remnant will believe when that time comes, there'll be a remnant. Now, apparently a remnant is kind of large because at least we know there's 144,000 Jewish evangelists coming in the book of Revelation. 12,000 from each tribe during the tribulation period. I don't know, 144,000 is a lot of people, but I guess in the grand scheme of things, they're going to preach Gentiles. John said, I saw so many Gentiles that got saved from their ministry, you couldn't number them all. Remarkable. But that said, yeah, if God doesn't keep his promise to Israel and to Abraham and to rehab his descendants, I ain't got nothing.

[Frank Turek]

And you cannot say there's no future for Israel, because Romans 11, 9, 10, 11, 9, 10, 11. But especially 11, 11, because 11, when he says all Israel will be saved. And then it says, right after that, Jack, it says, on account of the Gospel, their enemies.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

But on account of election, the election of the nation of Israel, not salvation, they're friends. On account of the patriarchs, this Israel that he's talking about at the time, they're not saved.

[Jack]

Yeah, that's exactly correct.

[Frank Turek]

They can't be the church.

[Jack]

Exactly.

[Frank Turek]

They can't be the church.

[Jack]

So they were dispersed for 2000 years to the four corners of the earth. Then God says in Ezekiel, Isaiah, Joel, Amos, he says, in the latter days, I will bring them back into their own land. Ezekiel says, I'm going to bring them back in. Unbelief. Think of that. Aliyah. They call it aliyah. Did you make aliyah? I'm going to go make aliyah. What is that? I was born in Brazil, I'm Jewish, But I have this compelling drive to watch this, to not only go to Israel and live, but since October 7, 2023, more Jews immigrated back. I say back, they didn't start there. They were like they were born in America. After 2023, October, they made aliyah and move to Israel. Huge numbers. Huge numbers. What's going on? Does the Bible talk about that? Yes, in great detail. Isaiah, chapter 43, for example. But that said, where in any historical writings is there somebody who calls himself God, who says, these are my people, They're a real pain in the rear. They're going to disobey me radically. When they do, they're going to pay for it and they're going to be dispersed. But because I keep my word with Abraham, even though he was sleeping, I made a covenant with myself. I'm going to bring them back into their land. They're going to come back kicking and screaming, spiritually. They might run back for the money, they might run back to be safe, but they're going to come back. The veil's over their eyes. Romans 9, 10, 11. I'm going to lift that veil at some time that's sovereign to God. And, yeah, a remnant will be saved. The remarkable thing is, Amos tells us that once he has got. Once he has brought them back into their land, they shall never again. I'm quoting verbatim. They shall never again be uprooted. We know the tribulation period is going to be Jesus.

[Frank Turek]

So you don't think they could be booted out again and come back?

[Jack]

No, they won't be booted out.

[Frank Turek]

You don't think so?

[Jack]

Okay, they won't be booted out. They will be taken. I'll put it this way, their worst days are ahead. If I understand the seven years and the rise of the Antichrist. Jesus said it this way concerning those days. If I do not return, there'll be no flesh left on the earth. Remember that. Jesus.

[Frank Turek]

24.

[Jack]

That's right. That's right. Jesus is saying that to those who he says in Matthew 24, when you see the abomination I've spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing where it ought not to come down from your house, from your rooftop and flee. You and I do not live on our rooftop. You've been there. They have flat roofs. If you're in the field, don't go back to get your jacket, run. If you're pregnant on that day, on that time in nursing, basically, it's going to be tough. Oh, and he says, he deliberately mentions the Sabbath. Pray that your escape is not on the Sabbath or that it is in winter. I can't tell you how many times I've been to Israel in the winter when it snowed in Jerusalem. That said, it's Jewish in context. Think of it. Yeah, think about it. And he says, flee now. That said, it's going to look very, very obviously very, very terrible. It's going to be very, very terrible. Think about the times of the Holocaust. It's going to be worse. Jesus said if you didn't come back, there would be no flesh left. So I do believe this, that once they're back in their land, they will never again be uprooted. They may be hanging by the skin of their teeth at some point, but May 14, 1940, 8.

[Frank Turek]

Which was yesterday as we're recording it right now.

[Jack]

Yeah, yeah. Listen, everybody. Israel celebrated 78, its 78th birthday for the second time.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Think of it. They were once a nation, God said, and then they're going to cease to be a nation. And then they're going to be a nation. Listen to this. Isaiah 66, beginning at verse 8, God says, will Zion be made to come and give birth in one day? Can a nation come forth in a day? And yet Israel will come forth. Isaiah 66. Frank, no nation was born a second time in one day.

[Frank Turek]

But Israel, certainly not speaking the same language. After 1900 years, that's never happened.

[Jack]

Same language, same culture, same. Remarkable. But look, I'll be the first to say, you know, I'm happily labeled to be a friend of Israel. I get yelled at for that. That's fine.

[Frank Turek]

Hey, what's the alternative? Step away from the Bible for just a second. Just for just a second.

[Jack]

Totally.

[Frank Turek]

What's the alternative?

[Jack]

Stupid.

[Frank Turek]

I ask people all the time because I get questions all the time on Israel, Hamas. The first question I ask back is, have you read the Hamas charter?

[Jack]

Oh, my. 1928.

[Frank Turek]

I read it.

[Jack]

Oh, the Muslim group.

[Frank Turek]

I'm talking about Hamas charter, like, 1988. Okay, sorry. Okay. One person out of dozens said, yes. I said, you shouldn't have an opinion on this conflict unless you read Hamas charter.

[Jack]

Good for you.

[Frank Turek]

Do you know what Hamas charter says? Hamas charter says that they want to wipe out the Jews. Hamas charter says. All this talk about land deals and conferences, that ain't it. It's a waste of time.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

It will not be solved except by jihad. This is in the.

[Jack]

Look it up.

[Frank Turek]

It's on the Internet. Okay. It's gonna be solved by jihad.

[Jack]

Total eradication of the Jewish line.

[Frank Turek]

So before you start blaming or accusing a group of genocide, Israel, maybe you ought to look at the group Hamas that advertises. That's exactly what they want to do.

[Jack]

Hamas, Hezbollah, technically, the Muslim Brotherhood.

[Frank Turek]

The Houthis.

[Jack]

The Houthis.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah.

[Jack]

If what does. What's the guy called today? Nobody knows. He's alive. Most people think he's dead. Who's the guy?

[Frank Turek]

The twelfth imam.

[Jack]

The cardboard.

[Frank Turek]

The Mahdi. What?

[Jack]

The cardboard. Who's the guy in Iran right now? All of the irgc.

[Frank Turek]

Oh, okay.

[Jack]

The IRGC and the Khomeini.

[Frank Turek]

Khomeini's son. Yeah.

[Jack]

They can't stop until there's no more Jew.

[Frank Turek]

That's why if they get a nuke, they're probably gonna use it. Because they think they're gonna bring in the end times by getting rid of Israel.

[Jack]

Frank, you're on a topic right now that I wish you and I could tie Trump and the entire cabinet down, like chain them up and say to them, can you give us an hour and then we'll gladly leave. Will you listen to us? You can make any deal you want. It's only going to be short lived. It's not going to last.

[Frank Turek]

Not only that, they can lie to the infidel.

[Jack]

They get to. That's what I was going to say. Do you know that get to lie. They're commanded to lie to you guys to get things moving. And do you know that they believe in waiting things out where. Don't declare Trump victory too soon because here's the way they think, which you don't know. As long as one of them are standing one they believe they're winning. That's how they interpret victory. If one of their team members is still standing after the US and the Israelis decimate them. But there's one standing victory. I'm not making it up. That's how they view things. And there has to be in fact for the Quran to be true, the crescent has got to close. What I say by that is look on every mosque. Now I may be wrong about this. It's been the Al Aqsa mosque, which is the gray dome and the dome of the Rock Mosque. I think one of those bear witness of the ultimate goal. Most countries, if you go around and look at a mosque, most of them have a Crescent at about 45 degree angle. I don't know why, not always, but it's not closed. It's a crescent, okay? In Islam the crescent cannot, the moon cannot become full, the crescent cannot close until Israel is no more and there's no more Jews. That's why in Jerusalem the Al Aqsa or, and or the Dome of the Rock Mosque has a closed crescent, a full moon which is a whole. We need Bill Federer right now to talk to us about the moon God of Babylon. That's who Allah is. But that's another day. That said, I love what you said a moment ago. The world thinks, oh, let's have a peace deal. They spell peace differently.

[Frank Turek]

And I don't really know Jack. I don't know how this is gonna

[Jack]

turn out because I'm not confident.

[Frank Turek]

The only thing that could bring them back a constitutional monarchy is if the military turns on the mullahs. And that might happen when they stop getting paid because the people don't have weapons.

[Jack]

Jack, did you see the news? You've been in an airplane all day.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen it.

[Jack]

That's the breaking news today.

[Frank Turek]

What?

[Jack]

The IRGC have not been paid.

[Frank Turek]

Okay, I didn't see it. I'm just saying.

[Jack]

And the IRGC is being fed right now potatoes. They're out of food. You're right. Maybe. Listen, I don't know because. Listen, Frank, I hope you know this is sad to say. In the book of Ezekiel, it talks about an attempt by a five nation conglomerate that is going to seek to destroy Israel in the last days. And Persia is one of them. And the alliance of those nations, by the way, has never happened before. Never happened before in history. Not even close. It's a future event. That means this peace deal with Trump, it's not going to last. In fact, what if it fails?

[Frank Turek]

Is it possible it could last for a period?

[Jack]

Yes.

[Frank Turek]

Okay.

[Jack]

I believe that.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah, we don't know when the end's coming, right? So.

[Jack]

Yeah, we don't.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah.

[Jack]

I personally believe, actually, I personally believe that it's going to be a short lived peace gig and then something's going to happen. Change of leadership, change of who knows what. But we do know this Daniel, chapter 9, verses 24 to 27, tells us that the prince that shall come, a reference to the Antichrist, that he will secure a covenant of peace with Israel with Daniel. It says Israel. I mean, it doesn't say Israel, it says Daniel, your holy city and your holy people. Well, Daniel was a Jew, but he'll make that. He'll make a seven year deal. But the Bible tells us three and a half years into the deal, he'll break that deal by what Antiochus Epiphanes did. Yes, right, he offered a swine, offered a pig. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, we gotta get back to Charlie. We want to talk about Charlie. That was fun.

[Frank Turek]

Charlie was, as I say, the guy I'd been waiting for for 30 years. And you know what Charlie also would say about courage, Jack? He loved the virtue of courage. Because courage doesn't take any skill. You just got to make a decision.

[Jack]

Please say that again.

[Frank Turek]

Courage doesn't take any skill. You don't have to be gifted. You don't have to have a great amount of intelligence. All you gotta do is make a decision. That's what courage is. And as you know, Churchill and Aristotle before him said things like, courage is the first of all virtues, because without it, you won't do anything else. Now we're on our way to uvu that Morning. In the car, Charlie gets footage on his phone of the crowd. He shows it to me. I'm looking at it. It's like an amphitheater.

[Jack]

I know where you're going.

[Frank Turek]

I literally said to him, I said,

[Jack]

jack, you told me this.

[Frank Turek]

I don't like. I said to him, charlie, I don't like this place. There's too many buildings. And he just shrugged it off because he's brave. He's not gonna call off the event. His security team was there. They had coverage from the Utah University police and some of the Utah State Police that they had the roofs. After this happened, I saw from Dan Flood the text that said, we got the roofs. And I've since had a conversation, and I can't reveal it yet because.

[Jack]

Understand. That's right.

[Frank Turek]

I have to give this guy an opportunity to say something else. But I talked to the head of the university police when I was there at the end of March, because I went back to uvu right, to speak, and he was there, and he came up to me and we spoke. But I won't say what he said until I have a chance to further vet it out. But he was denying to a certain extent that he had responsibility for certain areas. And it just seemed to me that since Butler, Pennsylvania. I mean, I'm just a guy. Yeah, I was in the Navy, but I'm just a guy. And I go, you better. You gotta have somebody up there.

[Jack]

Right?

[Frank Turek]

No, I'm sure he feels badly, of course, but we'll. I'll reach out to him and talk to him more. And.

[Jack]

And those are the human dramas that we have to cope with in the scope of God's sovereign, which.

[Frank Turek]

Well, there's always a ripple effect, Jack, in everything that happens. There's always a ripple effect. At the memorial Service, there were 75,000 people in the building. There were 30 or 40,000 people in the building next to us. There were 110 million people watching online. And last I heard, as of November, Several months ago, 1.2 billion people saw some of that memorial service.

[Jack]

1.2 billion.

[Frank Turek]

It was the largest evangelistic event in history. I still get emails from people saying, I became a Christian because of Charlie Kirk. I still get them. It's eight months later. I know Erica gets them. It's a tsunami, not just a ripple. There's been so much good that's come from it now. There's also been a lot of evil that's come out of it. I need to say this because there are.

[Jack]

It brought evil out.

[Frank Turek]

Yes.

[Jack]

Oh, totally.

[Frank Turek]

It Was there. They came right out of the woodwork.

[Jack]

It was there. It's the pus. It's. The infection exploded.

[Frank Turek]

Look, as you well know, but this is for the viewers and listeners, Jack, that Jesus and the apostles called Satan a murderer, liar, accuser and slanderer. Who wants to steal, kill and destroy all those things. We had a murder on 9, 10. What have we had since then? Lies, accusations and slander. Seeking to steal, kill and destroy. And people don't believe in the demonic, Jack. How could it be more obvious?

[Jack]

Yeah, exactly.

[Frank Turek]

They're attacking a widow and they don't care. A widow.

[Jack]

Not only attacking a widow in her grief, an assassination, martyrdom. I say that because so many of them claim to be Christians. That's impossible.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Don't judge. No, no, no. I am supposed to judge in the way of fruit inspection.

[Frank Turek]

That's right.

[Jack]

I know this. The Holy Spirit who dwells within. A Christian would never allow those kinds of words or actions. He will not allow his kids to be like that.

[Frank Turek]

Jack. Let's just go back to the Old Testament for a second. Exodus 22:22 says, anybody that abuses a widow or the fatherless God says, I will hunt you down with a sword and kill you. That's what it says, Jack. If they pray to me, I'm gonna hunt the guy down and kill him with the sword.

[Jack]

I can just hear somebody say, that's why I don't read the Old Testament. But then you just reminded me, in Revelation 19:20, Jesus coming with a sword in his mouth.

[Frank Turek]

That's right. And in Deuteronomy 19, it says this. If you accuse someone of a crime falsely and then you're found out, you get the penalty of the crime.

[Jack]

I love that.

[Frank Turek]

So if you accuse someone of murder falsely and you're found out, you get executed. This would shut the Internet down, Jack. If we had this law in America,

[Jack]

you would just shut it down. And I just. You know.

[Frank Turek]

And you gotta have two witnesses. I mean.

[Jack]

Yes, that's right. Let the record show. Amen. That needs. Boy, that would shut. You're right. People would straighten up real quick.

[Frank Turek]

That's right.

[Jack]

People would keep their trash inside of them where it should stay.

[Frank Turek]

But as the proverb says, gossip goes down like choice morsels. Jack.

[Jack]

They love.

[Frank Turek]

They love the intimacy, the inside. We got inside knowledge that I don't know.

[Jack]

Oh, we're a club.

[Frank Turek]

We're in a cult now.

[Jack]

Yeah. In fact, the things that happened after church. You too? The things that happened after Charlie's assassination. I found out so many things. About me? About you. I found out things about my dad.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah.

[Jack]

My family. My family. My brother, you know.

[Frank Turek]

What? Your brother what?

[Jack]

My brother Butch.

[Frank Turek]

When we were taking pictures, was he

[Jack]

involved in it too? It turns out that right before Charlie was. My brother was talking to a microphone or speaker that was in a bush.

[Frank Turek]

Oh.

[Jack]

And so he was talking to some sort of military operative that they were, you know, conspiring to take out Charlie.

[Frank Turek]

Because it couldn't have been a person who had been indoctrinated into cultural Marxism and transgenderism, who was upset that Charlie was speaking the truth and that he wrote an eat this fascist on his bullet when he shot him. That's just too simple. There's gotta be an integrated big conspiracy theory that this guy was just a patsy, apparently.

[Jack]

Exactly. Right.

[Frank Turek]

Now, if that were true, Jack, if that were true, he's not really guilty. Tyler Robinson. Don't you think his parents would be screaming right now?

[Jack]

You got the wrong guy. They were wrong.

[Frank Turek]

He's innocent. They turned him in.

[Jack]

They were. Exactly.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah. Don't you think he would be screaming right now?

[Jack]

I didn't do it.

[Frank Turek]

I mean, this is just.

[Jack]

It's possible.

[Frank Turek]

Anything's possible, Jack. It's possible aliens may have done it, Jack.

[Jack]

It's possible.

[Frank Turek]

You need evidence, though. You need evidence.

[Jack]

No, I don't think aliens would do such a thing. I think it would take a libtard like that to do such a thing. This is a person who's been indoctrinated.

[Frank Turek]

The folks who say they're fighting for inclusion, tolerance and diversity, Jack, 100%.

[Jack]

Those are the people who kill people.

[Frank Turek]

They do. Okay. They won't include you, won't tolerate you for holding diverse views.

[Jack]

They want to sit down and have a peace fest. But it's spelled. We can't tolerate the fact that you have a different view. And so we're going to kill you.

[Frank Turek]

This is what happens, Jack, when you don't have a way to defend your worldview logically. You emote. That's what happens.

[Jack]

You emote.

[Frank Turek]

You emote that and people get frustrated and tragically. Now look. Tyler Robinson's made in the image of God. He deserves a fair trial. He deserves presumption of innocence. But given the evidence that we have seen, if it's true, it sure appears he's guilty. I hope he repents. And then he's executed. Because that's what he deserves. Absolutely.

[Jack]

You said something key. Executed. The people who are against capital punishment are also the ones who are letting people out of prison.

[Frank Turek]

Yes.

[Jack]

Who go right back to killing people. Excuse me, we're in California. I can say that they are for

[Frank Turek]

capital punishment on the innocent. The unborn.

[Jack]

They will murder a baby in the womb. And it's a virtue.

[Frank Turek]

It's a sacrament.

[Jack]

It's a sacrament.

[Frank Turek]

This is my body.

[Jack]

Yeah, yeah.

[Frank Turek]

They're mimicking the words of our Lord, the communion. This is my body.

[Jack]

Which is not. Which is hilarious.

[Frank Turek]

Right?

[Jack]

Our friend Dennis Prager did one of the greatest videos years ago on why. Why a baby is not your body. And he walks through a complete separate DNA.

[Frank Turek]

Sure.

[Jack]

A complete separate identity.

[Frank Turek]

Different gender.

[Jack]

Completely different gender housed inside of another human. It's a miracle. It's a miracle. But,

[Frank Turek]

Jack, people don't understand the pro life position we're talking about. Pro life for the innocent. It's different in capital punishment because you're punishing a guilty person if there's no violation, if something's done right. No, I know. And Jesus affirms capital punishment.

[Jack]

Absolutely.

[Frank Turek]

Pilate says to him, don't you know I have the authority to kill you? Jesus doesn't say, no, you don't. He says, yes, you do. But you get the authority from above.

[Jack]

Exactly.

[Frank Turek]

Because God established government.

[Jack]

Exactly that.

[Frank Turek]

And that's why God. That's why the ruler bears the sword. It's a reference to capital punishment.

[Jack]

So if nobody's responding to this podcast yet, this will get him. Jesus said in Luke, chapter 22, remember when I first sent you guys out, I told you, don't take anything on the missionary venture that I was. Okay, well, now that I'm leaving, I'm sending you guys out. But this time you need to take your jacket with you this time. And you need to take what you. You need to take. I forget what he said, I'm sure.

[Frank Turek]

Sword. Sell your. Sell your cloak.

[Jack]

And sword. You need to sell, you know, sell some bananas and get. He said, get two swords.

[Frank Turek]

That should be enough.

[Jack]

Why two? If you drop one, you're going to

[Frank Turek]

need the other one.

[Jack]

Most Christians don't even know that Jesus said, you need to own a gun. Yeah, I mean, you need self defense.

[Frank Turek]

Self defense.

[Jack]

Which, by the way, our founding fathers used that law of natural law to establish the second amendment. Yes. The second amendment was not invented by the nra.

[Frank Turek]

Of course not.

[Jack]

The Second Amendment. Our founding fathers said. Okay, we learned something here. We know this. We can write up any constitution you want, but we got to do this. 1 and 2 are of natural law, which we could make laws against it. Nobody will obey it because a man will speak his mind and a Man will defend himself. So one will be, you can talk all you want. Two will be, you can defend yourself.

[Frank Turek]

And imagine if Iran had a second Amendment.

[Jack]

Wow. Wow. You know what? The Iranian, the Persian, I like to call them Persian people. They are the Persian people. They don't have that.

[Frank Turek]

They can't defend themselves against a despotic

[Jack]

government, but they're wanting. How many have been killed? What did.

[Frank Turek]

Well, 35 or 40,000.

[Jack]

30 to 40 plus thousand dead because they spoke their mind. Wow. Think about it. That proves Jefferson and Adams. It proves what they said. People will speak their minds even if it cost them their lives because the First Amendment recognizes God's natural law, that man will speak. Wow.

[Frank Turek]

Well, hopefully we'll speak. Those people were speaking for their freedom. We have freedom and we won't speak up to defend it.

[Jack]

Well, that's why we're losing it to Islamic. Islamic candidates sweeping across the US at this time. Did you ever think that under Trump's administration and all the tremendous MAGA and all the flag waving in a post 9 11, 2001 world again, getting back to how the Muslim mind thinks that we would see them getting victories.

[Frank Turek]

And yes, because 40 million Christians don't vote. That's why.

[Jack]

Thank you for saying that.

[Frank Turek]

40 million don't vote.

[Jack]

They gripe, they moan, they complain, but they don't get off their spectator.

[Frank Turek]

You know, I guess they think that only atheists are qualified to run the country.

[Jack]

Where do they get that from by that they're endorsing evil. Silence is approval. They're no different than Germans during the time of Hitler. Apathetic Christians are. What's wrong with Christianity today?

[Frank Turek]

Totally. Jack. I say this to audiences all the time. Do you think that Christians back in the 1800s should have gotten politically involved to eradicate slavery and free the slaves? Everyone of them go, yes, of course. Welcome to politics, ladies and gentlemen.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

So why is it any different now?

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

Why is it any different now?

[Jack]

In fact, I'm, I'm going through. I'm not saying I'm. This is. This is because I've been. This is an election year.

[Frank Turek]

Yes.

[Jack]

So I'm getting all kinds of questions, all kinds of challenges. And so I answered what you just. Exactly how you just answered. And of course, Jesus saying, whose coin is this? It's a political statement Jesus made, by the way you look at all these things. I'm really hard pressed. I'm open. I'm open to being wrong on this. But so far everything is trending from Genesis to Revelation, the inseparable reality between faith and politics.

[Frank Turek]

God established government throughout the entirety of scripture. It's political. From Genesis to maps, Jack.

[Jack]

Genesis to maps all the way.

[Frank Turek]

It's political. It is all these prophets.

[Jack]

But a shallow Christian, Frank, cannot handle that. They just like why? Because they've not been equipped by pastors. They haven't to train them as disciples, to go out on Sunday afternoon and show up on Monday morning at work or wherever they're at, and to be able to say, hey, Jesus Christ died for your sins and rose again from the dead, fulfilling Bible prophecy. And God also said that when the righteous are in power, the people rejoice, but when the wicked are in authority, the people groan.

[Frank Turek]

And it says, love your neighbor. How do you love your neighbor if you're allowing them to be hurt by bad laws.

[Jack]

By bad laws.

[Frank Turek]

When you have the opportunity to protect them from bad laws.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

Why are you not taking that opportunity?

[Jack]

Because they are so spiritual, Frank. They would never dirty their hands and get involved in that dark and nasty world.

[Frank Turek]

Yet Paul wanted to go see Caesar.

[Jack]

Paul, he used his political citizenship. He leveraged it to get a court with Caesar.

[Frank Turek]

And he told Felix so many unnerving things to Felix. He went after Felix on a moral. You know, the governor there, that Felix said, go away. I don't want to talk to you. Later. Yeah, later. Tomorrow, later. And he kept bringing Paul back because he wanted Paul to give him a bribe and he wouldn't do it.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Frank Turek]

So Paul was trying to influence the top leaders of the Roman Empire.

[Jack]

And to prove your point, what does the book of Acts say later on Acts? A couple of epistles which escape me. Maybe you'll know where greetings might be. Romans.

[Frank Turek]

Oh, the end of Romans. Greet Rufus.

[Jack]

I should know this. Greet those guys who are of Caesar's household.

[Frank Turek]

That's right. Caesar's household.

[Jack]

My gosh. Caesar's at the table, I rule the world. And there's some kid down at the other end going, eh. So what do you think? Isn't that awesome?

[Frank Turek]

Oh, it's amazing. Hey, hopefully we got a few more minutes. I got to say this about that day. 9, 10. Because it's important for everybody watching who loved Charlie and TPUSA. We got to the hospital somewhere around 12:30. He was shot, right? Like maybe 12:20. It took us, like 10 minutes to get there, maybe 15. We had no, it's just an SUV. We had no lights. We're just screaming.

[Jack]

Saw that.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah. We get there. Mikey had already sent a plane to get Erica.

[Jack]

Right.

[Frank Turek]

And she got there, I want to say, about three o', clock, talked to the doctor, went up and had private time with Charlie's body. You know, it's about 5:30. I'm about the only one in the emergency room area. Just standing there. I'm in scrubs.

[Jack]

Because your clothes were.

[Frank Turek]

Clothes were. Yeah. I didn't want her to see any of that.

[Jack]

No way.

[Frank Turek]

So they come down from being with Charlie. Erica sees me, I see her. She's a mess, as you can imagine. Of course, Crying. I'm crying. Comes up to me. We hug and she says this. He loved you. He was doing what he wanted to do. Please don't let his legacy die. So I'm trying to do whatever I can do to make sure his legacy continues. And we need people out there to do the same.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

Nobody's going to replace Charlie.

[Jack]

Thank you.

[Frank Turek]

He's a one of a kind.

[Jack]

That's well said. We need people to do the same.

[Frank Turek]

So. We are Charlie Kirk. Remember? We are Charlie Kirk.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Frank Turek]

And Paul said it this way. Emulate me as I emulate Christ. We're not saying Charlie was perfect. We're not saying that. But he had such good qualities. The good qualities where he was following Jesus. Let's emulate those.

[Jack]

Charlie was not perfect. But I must say this. I say that based on the reality of scripture. I honestly. I'm trying to remember if I heard him say something wrong. I'm trying to remember if he said something rude to somebody. I cannot remember if Charlie was short or in a bad mood. I don't remember Charlie ever hurting someone's feelings. Of course, he was not perfect, but I've never seen him flub up.

[Frank Turek]

And I've never seen any of that out of Erica either. And she has taken the most heat and has to live with the worst event imaginable. And she forgives Tyler Robinson at the memorial service only nine days later. I mean, she's a superhero.

[Jack]

Only in Christ can that happen.

[Frank Turek]

Yes.

[Jack]

And you know, God will systematically, in this life or the life to come, judge accordingly. He's the perfect judge. People need to realize that no one's getting away with anything. And instead of. Instead of resting everything on that reality, there are people who just won't stop talking about all the dynamics and all the conspiracies and all of this. And I know something nobody else knows. And all this, they just keep going. And little do they know they are actually. They are actually ripening themselves for the day of judgment. Scripture talks about this right they are gainsayers. They are heady. The Bible says they're headstrong, slanderous, unloving, unthankful, unholy.

[Frank Turek]

Second Timothy three. Yes.

[Jack]

And best for us in life to leave it in the hands of God. Best for us to rest where Frank, who was with Charlie in many ways times. But there, at his last breath, you have to leave things with God instead of conjuring up ideas and crazy things that should be thoughts that are put under the captivity of Christ. Things that the professing world. I don't think I've heard from. But those who say they're Christians have spewed the most demonic things the world has shown more respect.

[Frank Turek]

Lies, accusations and slander.

[Jack]

Lies, accusations and slander against a widow. Yeah, well, because there's.

[Frank Turek]

And her husband's organization, his legacy.

[Jack]

Yeah. Air. I do believe. I know you do as well. But I do believe that those manifestations that went so very public were of demonic origin. Yes, but people have to lend themselves to be open to being used by such dark powers. So. Look, I want to thank you for loving Charlie. Yeah, we.

[Frank Turek]

You did too, Jack. Charlie was so easy to love. I mean.

[Jack]

I mean, come on. It's not like I had to work it.

[Frank Turek]

Yeah, right.

[Jack]

Absolutely.

[Frank Turek]

But supporting him and Erica now into the future, we have to do what we can do. Not that any organization's perfect or any person. That's not the point. And blessing often means correction, as we said earlier.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

But what you know, people don't understand. Erica was established long before she met Charlie. Ms. Arizona.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Frank Turek]

CEO of two companies.

[Jack]

Yeah. Sharp.

[Frank Turek]

Very sharp. And she reminds me a lot of my wife. I mean, she is someone that doesn't get super emotional. And she knows the facts and she focuses.

[Jack]

Are you talking about my wife? All of our wives notice your wife and my wife.

[Frank Turek]

My wife and Erica, very similar.

[Jack]

Not because, you know, God gave us that. Because they're married to crazy people.

[Frank Turek]

That's right.

[Jack]

Oh, man.

[Frank Turek]

So, no, it's true, Dilly.

[Jack]

Jack.

[Frank Turek]

I mean, Erica is just focused. I mean, she's as tragic and as how much pain she's in. She somehow gets up every morning and presses on. She's not. Not a mess like I am.

[Jack]

Well, I'm not going to shake your hand because that's very formal. I love you. We're friends. We've been friends for a long time.

[Frank Turek]

That's right, brother.

[Jack]

We'll be friends to the end. You're a brother in arms and a brother in charge.

[Frank Turek]

And thank you for being the tip of the spear among pastors, because we need more pastors to wake up Jack.

[Jack]

We Hope it happens.

[Frank Turek]

24, 7, 365, 360 degrees. What area of life does Jesus not control? Every area. You should be following Jesus everywhere.

[Jack]

Amen.

[Frank Turek]

Amen.

[Jack Hibbs]

This Jack Hibbs podcast, as well as all the broadcast outreach opportunities, are listener supported. Will you consider partnering with us through a special gift? Go to jackhibs. Com to learn more and stay connected.