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Grace speaks to Ruth Wilson Gilmore, prison abolitionist, scholar, and professor of geography at the City University of New York. She is the author of several books, including Golden Gulag: Prisons, Surplus, Crisis, and Opposition in Globalizing California and, most recently, Abolition Geography: Essays Toward Liberation. They discuss who is profiting from the criminal justice system, how existing institutions within the system serve to support and reinforce capitalist social relations, and what a socialist conception of justice looks like.

A World to Win is a podcast from Grace Blakeley and Tribune bringing you a weekly dose of socialist news, theory, and action with guests from around the world. Thanks to our producer Conor Gillies and to the Lipman-Miliband Trust for making this episode possible.