Meredith Marks & Joey Zauzig: Pontificating & Integrity

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jeff Lewis Has Issues Episode: Meredith Marks & Joey Zauzig: Pontificating & Integrity Air Date: January 28, 2026 Guests: Meredith Marks, Joey Zauzig

---

Episode Overview

In this candid, drama-filled episode, Jeff Lewis sits down with Meredith Marks (Real Housewives of Salt Lake City) and influencer Joey Zauzig for a no-holds-barred discussion about the volatile dynamics of reality TV, friendships, personal integrity, and life beyond the camera. Jeff and his guests dissect the latest RHOSLC reunion, address personal attacks, and explore how reality TV impacts their real lives, relationships, and businesses. They wrap up with a spirited game revealing Joey’s commitment to self-improvement (or not).

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meredith’s Ever-Evolving Career and Life Balance

• Meredith reflects on her tour and new ventures:
  • Origin of her DJ career (Pride event in June spiraled into a tour, 02:52-03:20)
  • Current tour cities, major upcoming festival gigs with acts like Ludacris and Foo Fighters (03:43-04:35)
  • Scaling back her Park City ambitions: From boutique & caviar lounge to focusing on jewelry, with separate spaces for the lounge (07:44-09:16)
• Meredith on being a “nomad”:
  • Struggles with settling down; follows her children between NYC and LA (05:11-06:37)
  • Husband Seth now works remotely—a major change for their relationship (06:50-07:23)

Notable Quote:

"My life has been a million and one twists and turns that I never expected. And this one’s a good one."
— Meredith (04:47)

---

2. The Cost of Being a Housewife: Integrity Under Fire

• Jeff questions why Meredith continues RHOSLC despite attacks:
  • The tradeoff between personal sanity and the platform to promote her businesses (09:16-10:54)
  • Jeff praises her self-control amid relentless prodding from castmates.
• Meredith’s approach to conflict:
  • Castmates attempt to provoke her, but she’s learned to remain calm, frustrating them (10:54-11:37)
• Attacks on Meredith’s character:
  • Drinking allegations by cast members (esp. Whitney) despite their own behavior (11:49-14:06)
  • Meredith clarifies rumors about “the plane incident” (13:30-14:30, 18:26-20:42)

Notable Quote:

"They are poking and prodding relentlessly, trying so hard to get that reaction. ... They want their supply. They feed off that. It’s really very sick."
— Meredith (11:20)

---

3. Toxic Dynamics & Cast Politics

• Cast divisions and their impact:
  • Jeff and Meredith agree the franchise is suffering from deep divides; fear of irreparable relationships (15:05-16:59)
  • Worry about “thirsty” castmates fighting for their TV spot at any cost, with Brittany mentioned as a prime example (17:39-21:31)
• Lack of support and shifting narratives:
  • Jeff criticizes cast for failing to support Meredith amid attacks (18:03-18:55)
  • Meredith frustrated by the spread and evolution of false rumors (19:30-20:42)
• Balance Solutions:
  • Jeff suggests a cast shake-up to restore balance—more allies for Meredith and Lisa (23:24-24:04)

Notable Quote:

"When the cast doesn’t get along ever, you have to make changes...it doesn’t feel very balanced."
— Jeff (23:24)

---

4. Production, Editing, and Feeling Unprotected

• Feeling unsupported by producers/network:
  • Meredith expresses disappointment in lack of editorial protection and the ease with which cast members defame each other (25:02-26:29)
  • She’s open to daily drug testing to counter damaging rumors (26:12-26:29)
• Hypocrisy and manipulation:
  • Incidents where others leave out crucial facts to create a negative narrative about Meredith’s marriage (27:20-28:26)

Notable Quote:

"There’s always hypocrisy with me. ... This goes beyond hypocrisy. I am intentionally leaving out information to spin this in a very different narrative. And I have the receipts on it."
— Meredith (27:20)

---

5. The Personal Toll & Decisions Ahead

• Impact on marriage and self-worth:
  • Ironically, Meredith and Seth’s marriage strengthened by facing adversity together (38:07)
  • Show provides a platform not just for business, but for causes she cares about (29:37)
• Considering returning to RHOSLC:
  • Dilemma: not wanting to let bullies “win” by quitting (22:26-23:11)
  • The need for more supportive cast members (24:04-24:17)
• Game of "Joey 2.0":
  • Playful segment where Joey Zauzig pledges to leave behind toxic behaviors, with self-deprecating humor (44:09-46:13)

---

6. Audience Q&A and Closing Reflections

• Lisa Barlow’s defending and being defensive:
  • Meredith suggests Lisa shouldn’t have to defend her success; group consensus that attacks prompt defensiveness (35:43-37:04)
• Lack of integrity and its consequences:
  • Jeff and Meredith disappointed by castmates’ willingness to lie for the sake of airtime and drama (37:35-38:44)
• Commentary on failed cast marriages:
  • Show can hasten relationship breakdowns; speculation about Bronwyn’s motivation and separation (39:20-41:54)
• Meredith’s relationship with Jen Shah post-incarceration:
  • Stays in touch, believes in second chances if people make amends (42:34-43:41)
• On feeling hurt:
  • Heather’s betrayal stood out as the most painful for Meredith this season (49:07-49:43)
• On being in a no-win scenario:
  • Meredith highlights the impossibility of navigating cast accusations—damned if you do, damned if you don’t (50:00)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 04:47 | "My life has been a million and one twists and turns that I never expected. And this one's a good one." | Meredith Marks | | 11:20 | "They are poking and prodding relentlessly, trying so hard to get that reaction. ... They want their supply. They feed off that. It's really very sick." | Meredith Marks | | 18:03 | "What really bothered me is that... I felt like no one had your back." | Jeff Lewis | | 23:24 | "When the cast doesn’t get along ever, you have to make changes...it doesn't feel very balanced." | Jeff Lewis | | 27:20 | "There’s always hypocrisy with me. ... This goes beyond hypocrisy. I am intentionally leaving out information to spin this in a very different narrative. And I have the receipts on it." | Meredith Marks | | 38:07 | "Actually, weirdly, the show has, for my marriage, made it better...It almost makes us closer because we're fighting this together." | Meredith Marks | | 50:00 | "If I'm having fun, if I'm sad, I'm in trouble. If I talk, I'm in trouble. If I don't talk, I'm in trouble. Like, yeah, it's exactly a no win. Forget it." | Meredith Marks |

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:04] — Episode premise and guest intro
• [02:52] — Meredith's origin as a DJ
• [09:16] — Why Meredith continues with RHOSLC
• [10:54] — Meredith on composure and self-control
• [11:49] — Drinking accusations, hypocrisy discussion
• [14:30] — Lisa as a target and cast strategies
• [18:03] — Lack of support on the cast
• [23:24] — Discussion of cast shake-up and needed changes
• [25:02] — Feeling unprotected by production
• [26:29] — Willingness to take drug tests to prove innocence
• [27:20] — Manipulation of narratives
• [35:43] — Listener question about Lisa, defending oneself
• [38:07] — Impact on Meredith’s marriage
• [44:09] — Joey 2.0 game
• [46:31] — Confusion about relationship with Mary and addiction accusations
• [49:07] — Who hurt Meredith most this season (Heather)
• [50:00] — The 'no win' scenario

---

Summary Tone:
Conversational, blunt, and often humorous, with an undercurrent of real emotion around betrayal, loyalty, and self-preservation amidst the reality TV circus.

---

This episode is a must-listen for Bravo fans, reality TV aficionados, or anyone curious about the cost of fame, the art of self-reinvention, and how to keep your sanity (and marriage) when everyone around you is playing for keeps.

Transcript

[Jeff Lewis]

I believe that American Idol can change my life for the better. Abc Monday's American Idol is new. I had a dream.

[Meredith Marks]

Why are you so emotional? I don't think I'd ever get to be somewhere like this.

[Jeff Lewis]

Where your vote turns dreamers. You ready for it? You're going to Hollywood, meet into idols. There it is, the golden ticket. You are inspiring.

[Meredith Marks]

You're pretty incredible.

[Jeff Lewis]

American Idol. New Mondays, 8. 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu. Adobe Acrobat Studio, your new foundation. Use PDF spaces to generate a presentation. Grab your docs, your permits, your moves. AI levels up, your pitch gets it in a groove. Choose a template with your timeless cool. Come on now, let's flex those tools. Draft, design, deliver, make it sing. AI builds the deck so you can build that thing. Do that, do that, do that with Acrobat. Learn [e-mail] do that with Acrobat.

[Meredith Marks]

When you're Jeff Lewis, the drama never stops.

[Jeff Lewis]

Stop fucking apologizing. You're not making it any better. You're just reminding me how late we are. I know I'm specific. I know I'm a little high maintenance, which is why I tip really fucking well. I don't wanna start shit, but okay.

[Meredith Marks]

Really? Chef Lewis has issues.

[Jeff Lewis]

Hey, it's Chef Lewis and I have issues. In today's episode, Meredith Marks and Joey Zauczig join the show. Meredith looks back on season six of the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City and wonders if a cast shake could help the future of the show. Plus, we play Joey 2.0 or. Oh, hell no. Good morning.

[Meredith Marks]

Good morning, Meredith.

[Jeff Lewis]

What are you doing in town?

[Meredith Marks]

I'm here to do something I can't talk about.

[Jeff Lewis]

Okay. All right. So it has nothing to do with the Naughty and Ice tour?

[Meredith Marks]

No, no. I just wrapped up in Seattle on Sunday night and we've got a couple more weeks to go where, you know, it's in and out. Cause I've got Sundance and some other things going on. So I have a little time off. I come back, then a little time off and we do the last instant.

[Unknown Female Guest]

And I do have to highly recommend the Naughty and Ice tour. Annie and I went last time you were here in town. We had so much fun. It was so cute.

[Jeff Lewis]

You.

[Unknown Female Guest]

You had Brooks and Chloe on stage dancing with you the whole time. It was so cute. We had. We had the best time.

[Meredith Marks]

Thank you. I'm so glad we have the best time. I have the best time. I mean, it's just fun. It's like throwing a party and everyone's having a Great time for the people.

[Jeff Lewis]

That don't know you are a jewelry entrepreneur turned caviar entrepreneur turned housewife turned dj.

[Meredith Marks]

Correct.

[Jeff Lewis]

Now, when you first got your first DJ gig. Well, first of all, how did that happen?

[Meredith Marks]

So I was asked last June to DJ for Pride, and I thought it would be like a fun kind of one and done, but it just kind of spiraled from there. I had the best time. Everyone had the best time. It was incredible. And then we started getting requests, and I was like, well, yes, let's do it. And so, you know, I just keep plowing forward.

[Jeff Lewis]

And then it turned into a tour, an actual tour. And I show that you are gonna be in Dallas on January 29th, Denver on the 30th, Austin, Texas, on the 31st. February 18th, you're in Atlanta. February 19th, you're in Charleston. February 20th, you're in Ashbury Park, New Jersey. I mean, this is. This has really grown.

[Meredith Marks]

It's amazing. I believe we're sold out everywhere except for Dallas and Charleston. So anyone in Dallas and Charleston, who's listening? Please buy tickets.

[Jeff Lewis]

And where do people. Where do people go to buy tickets?

[Meredith Marks]

They can go on. On my Instagram, there's a link where they can get it, or they honestly can just even Google it. But it's, um. It's through Out Loud Music Festival. They're. They're. They put the tour together, so it's on their site as well.

[Jeff Lewis]

And is this lucrative?

[Meredith Marks]

I mean, you know, worth your time? It's worth my time, yes.

[Joey Zauczik]

Okay.

[Meredith Marks]

It is definitely worth my time, and I'm having an incredible time.

[Jeff Lewis]

So now we have dates through February. Are you going to be adding more dates this year?

[Meredith Marks]

Not until. Probably, like, I have some festivals coming up. I have Bottle Rock coming up in May and also Mighty Hoopla coming up in May.

[Unknown Female Guest]

Those are major.

[Jeff Lewis]

Yeah, let's talk about it.

[Joey Zauczik]

Really major.

[Unknown Female Guest]

This is a real thing.

[Jeff Lewis]

No, Bottle Rock Music Festival is huge. And you're headlining with Ludacris, with Lorde, with Foo Fighters, the Backstreet Boys. I mean, this is like a. I mean, it's crazy.

[Meredith Marks]

It's actually insane. I mean, it's almost as insane as, like, if you had told me I was doing this 20 years ago would have been just as insane as if you had told me I would ever live in Utah. Like, my life has been a million and one twists and turns that I never expected. And this one's a good one.

[Jeff Lewis]

And so do just close your eyes and jump and be like, okay, this is an. You obviously don't Talk yourself out of opportunities. You just what?

[Meredith Marks]

I seize everything. That's just, it's the nature of who I am. I'm a very restless human being. I can't sit still. I mean, I can barely stay in one city for more than like a week or two. I like to be creating and building and doing things. And so it's. My biggest difficulty is saying no to things because I like to do things, I like to be around people. And I'm just, I'm very active and involved.

[Jeff Lewis]

So you're kind of like this Nomad, right? So you're always traveling. You. You haven't really settled anywhere. So you do live in Salt Lake City certain many months out of the year. You live in New York a certain many months out of the year. If you were to settle, which I don't see you doing, is there a particular city where you would see yourself like, oh, Seth and I would buy a house here maybe?

[Meredith Marks]

Yeah, there's a ton of places we would buy homes. But settle is another story.

[Jeff Lewis]

Okay.

[Meredith Marks]

You know, I don't. I think about this every day because I would like sometimes to like, be a little more chill than I am.

[Jeff Lewis]

Yes.

[Meredith Marks]

But it's just not on the cards for me right now.

[Jeff Lewis]

What's your happy place? Where is your happy place?

[Meredith Marks]

Probably New York, because your kids are there. Yeah. But the thing is, my kids also really love la and they're talking about spending more time here. So now I'm talking about spending more time here. Basically, I chase my children.

[Jeff Lewis]

Right. No, I understand that. I get, I get it. You have a very. We talked about this. You've not only a very lovely family, but they're gorgeous. Those kids are gorgeous. You and Seth make good looking kids.

[Meredith Marks]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Jeff Lewis]

And is Seth still in Ohio?

[Meredith Marks]

No, he actually. The incredible thing that happened for us over the last year is he's working fully remote for the first time. So we are together the large majority of the time. I mean, obviously when I'm going, you know, to three different cities in three days, he's not coming to every city because it's too much, but he'll come to one or two of them, you know, and work in between. I mean, he's always working, but, you.

[Jeff Lewis]

Know, where's your home base right now? Is it New York?

[Meredith Marks]

Kind of. Kind of. It has been New York. We actually just gave up our apartment in New York until the spring because we're debating if we want to move uptown or we want to make a couple changes. So in theory, it's usually New York until right about now. And then it's Utah right from here until like mid May to June. Somewhere in there.

[Jeff Lewis]

Your flagship store is in Salt Lake City, correct?

[Meredith Marks]

In Park City.

[Jeff Lewis]

Park City. So you have obviously people that are running that store.

[Meredith Marks]

Yes. So we actually have just made quite a few changes. Last year, I took the other side of my store. We had another boutique in there. I took over their space because I thought we would add a caviar lounge into the space. But because everything on Main street, or at least the building we're in, is very old landmarked, landlocked, with all the utilities coming in through the rear, it was extraordinarily difficult to put food and beverage in the space.

[Jeff Lewis]

I see.

[Meredith Marks]

So we now have found another space that's triple the size down the street, which is good because it was very tight anyway. And we're going to put the lounge down there. And up in my space, I condensed into just a small jewelry store, which is really what I wanted to begin with. I didn't want to be running a full crazy boutique. That all started. I had an operating partner that, you know, fell out during COVID And so I. I'm pairing it back to what I really want, which is just the jewelry store and. And we have an art gallery in there operating. Wow. So it's way easier on me now. Like a million times easier on me. I'm really happy about that. And then we'll have the lounge down the street and like the merch and stuff like that will be at the lounge.

[Jeff Lewis]

All right. So one of the reasons why I wanted to kind of set up all your businesses, right. And I wanted people to understand. I am starting to question why you continue doing Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Now, what season are you now?

[Meredith Marks]

Is it six seven six is airing right now. It's reunion tonight.

[Jeff Lewis]

And you've done second part of the reunion is tonight. I saw the first part. You know, this was not a great season for you. And it's not necessarily your behavior, it's the girls coming for you repeatedly. And I just, you know, I was thinking about this, like, why is she still doing this? She has her jewelry business, her caviar business, she has the DJ business. But I, I understand that this platform is important to promote all of this businesses and it's a trade off. And I just thought to myself, well, Jeff, why are you doing this? You know, and it is true, it's the additional paycheck, which is nice, but it's also the platform to promote our businesses. But there is quite a trade off. And the way those girls have, I mean, come for you this season is so uncomfortable. And I don't know how you keep your composure because, I mean, you really, really control yourself. I mean, the. They just repeatedly come at you and the way you handle yourself is I have an enormous amount of respect because I don't think I'd have the self control not to lose my shit.

[Meredith Marks]

Well, thank you for recognizing that. Because what they try to make me look like is that I'm this very highly reactive person who's, you know, just losing their mind over every little thing. And the reality of it is they are poking and prodding relentlessly, trying so hard to get that reaction. And that's why I don't think I gave much of a reaction to them. This, you know, very little.

[Jeff Lewis]

Which frustrated them.

[Meredith Marks]

Exactly. It's like they want their supply. They feed off that. It's really very sick. And I'm like, you're not winning this time. I see you the same way that what I saw what they were trying to do with me and Lisa. That's why they can't break us now. Once I'm aware of what you're doing, you're never going to win.

[Unknown Female Guest]

I thought it was very telling in the finale. Throughout the play, they're all drinking glasses of wine. At the end, Heather is slurring with her glass of wine, accusing you of having a drinking problem. And you're just standing there like, I'm okay. What are you guys talking about?

[Jeff Lewis]

And then Whitney just came off Bravocon where she embarrassed herself, got way too drunk, had to apologize to Andy. But then they're pointing fingers at you saying that you have some sort of drinking problem, which that became the whole theme of the season. I just don't know how they get away with slandering people, defaming people. See, the difference with a show like me mine is that I'm in control, right? So if somebody comes after me, slanders me, defames me, I'll remove them. But you don't have the power to do that.

[Meredith Marks]

No, I don't have the power to do that. And, you know, I think that a lot of what goes on is kind of insane. I mean, Joey knows. He's out with me. He's finishing my drinks. I am not a big drinker.

[Jeff Lewis]

He's finishing everyone else's drinks too. Meredith, it's not just yours.

[Joey Zauczik]

We have fun together, though. Meredith takes care of me. We go out. But it is true. But then it's like, even at the reunion. Whitney, like, brushes off the fact that she also was so drunk and made a fool of herself.

[Meredith Marks]

It's like, yeah, for four days in a row.

[Joey Zauczik]

Exactly.

[Meredith Marks]

She fall down drunk, but she wants to talk about me. And then I just. Someone sent me a video yesterday from TikTok. I guess on Sunday, like in the middle of the day, she did some meet and greet, and she's got the microphone in one hand and clutching her glass of wine in the other and is pontificating that I had all these lawyers shutting down some video that exists. Well, let me be clear. I had zero lawyers involved in that situation. Zero. I did not ever see a video. If there is one, I am unaware of it, and there is no video. I can tell you with 100% certainty there is no video of me pouring wine or pulling hair or doing anything of that sort because it didn't happen.

[Jeff Lewis]

Are you talking about the plane?

[Meredith Marks]

Yes. I mean, she's clutching her wine, pontificating about legal things that she.

[Joey Zauczik]

What is pontificating?

[Meredith Marks]

Like pondering, telling a story, everyone's opinion.

[Joey Zauczik]

Pontificating. Got it. Just making sure.

[Meredith Marks]

Just want to clear for the audience, you know what?

[Joey Zauczik]

Whitney's a pontificator.

[Meredith Marks]

Yeah. No, she's a pontificator. Well, that's kind. I would just say liar, but she's a liar.

[Joey Zauczik]

I always have your back. Still married. And let's not forget Heather threw up her martini in the. In the Sprinter last season or whatever.

[Meredith Marks]

So, look, I could go through all of it. The day where Whitney's pointing at me screaming, alcoholic pill popper. I was drinking tea. Okay, we see them all pull up. This is 10 in the morning. They're taking a flask of liquor out at 10am and I saw Whitney drink at least seven glasses of wine before she grabbed the bottle and brought it to her seat. And I'm stone cold sober drinking tea.

[Jeff Lewis]

Do you get worried, you and Lisa? Well, first of all, Lisa's a very easy target because she reacts.

[Meredith Marks]

Yes.

[Jeff Lewis]

Which she hasn't learned her lesson. I love Lisa. She's been on the show. I've hung out with her socially. I consider her a friend. She makes it very easy for them.

[Meredith Marks]

Yes. However, I think that she was very calm at reunion for Lisa. I know the first episode doesn't let. You'll see that happen. She really did. She did do a pretty good job keeping her cool. And you'll see, like, they don't like it.

[Jeff Lewis]

Not in episode one. Episode one was. That was definitely very hard to watch. It was just an hour of screaming and then I, you know, I get worried about these franchises. I'm very invested in all of these. But I get worried when the girls really. When they divide into teams and they really start their behavior. It becomes. It's almost like you can't walk back from it, right? There's so much damage. And I'm thinking, where are we gonna go from here? Because I love the cast, but when the cast doesn't get along ever, you have to make changes. And I also. I don't know about you, but I worry about the people with nothing to lose. And, you know, the second that somebody's husband loses their job or their business goes under or, you know, all of a sudden, this paycheck becomes vit. Their survival. And then at that point, they're now going to do whatever they can do to stay on that show. And, you know, Brittany is extremely thirsty. I've been very, you know, I've been very forthright with how I feel about her. I do not respect the decisions that she's made in her life. I have zero respect for her. I think she's. I think she's very thirsty. And I frankly think she's an easy target. And I think it's funny when people go after her. Cause she. In my opinion, she deserves it. But I was so upset for you, and I mentioned this to Lisa. I was so upset for you on that ship when she brought up these nasty, unfounded, unsubstantiated gossip, you know, about your husband. And when you put that out there, it obviously, it puts you and your husband and your entire family on the defense. Because it doesn't matter what you say now. There's a certain percentage of the audience that is going to believe her bullshit.

[Meredith Marks]

Of course. Of course. I mean, we see it all the time. You know, you'll see people commenting on social media because some random TikTok that clearly she has nothing better to do. Because it was like after five minutes of gossip, at the end of some thing, she's watching this whole TikTok to get to. Through nonsensical gossip. I couldn't even find the TikTok. That's how obscure it was. And it was finally sent to me. And literally the day that it aired, I said, oh, I'm gonna pull it up, you know, And I did. And it had 25 likes. Like, it was very obscure. She worked hard. She probably planted it herself. I have no idea. I don't really care about that one way or the other. Like, if that's how you want to spend your Time that's on you.

[Jeff Lewis]

She has to secure her position, Meredith. Yeah, but so it's very important that she continues on that show. Right. So she has to secure her position. What really bothered me is that regardless of where you were at that time with the cast members, any one of them would have killed her. Angie K. Would have thrown her overboard if she had something, said something about her husband. I felt like no one had your back.

[Meredith Marks]

That's correct.

[Jeff Lewis]

And I think if any one of those girls were in that position, they would have killed her. And so I said to Shane, I said, you know, if you got on that plane and if I had gone through that and the person in front of me who had just come for me and my family, you could be damn sure I would talk shit for eight hours straight.

[Joey Zauczik]

100%.

[Meredith Marks]

First of all, let's clarify. The flight was five hours long. It was from Barbados to New York. So when they're like, oh, she was going on for two hours, for four hours, for six hours. Well, we weren't even on the plane for six hours. Let's start there. You know, it's like one thing after another. And there were other factors. I was not just upset about the Britney thing. There were some other things that went on that I was also agitated about. So I did vent to Lisa for a little bit at the beginning, a little bit at the end.

[Jeff Lewis]

Justified to do so.

[Meredith Marks]

Absolutely. I 100% did. And the things I was saying, I had said to Brittany's face. So I don't know why she would be so devastated all of a sudden. I've said them to her face. Why did she care that I was saying them to Lisa? And why are we making up these other things that I did rather than just telling the truth? It's maybe because she doesn't want the whole world to know what I really said about her. So the way to show that was, oh, let's make it look like Meredith did these crazy things so the audience can understand how crazy it really was. But it wasn't.

[Jeff Lewis]

From what I know of you. You're not a violent person. You're not kicking someone's seat.

[Meredith Marks]

You're not pouring tow too.

[Jeff Lewis]

You're not pouring drinks on someone's head. And by the way, if. If this behavior was as outrageous as what these girls are stating, why did nobody pick up a camera and video it?

[Joey Zauczik]

Exactly.

[Meredith Marks]

Better yet, why didn't any of these women do something about it? Say, oh, my gosh, Meredith, stop it. Or Britney, let me switch seats with you, or anything about It. And now all of a sudden the story's changing again because this makes them look really bad. It makes my producers look really bad. Anyone who is on that plane who is confirming what Brittney is saying and did nothing about it, that is on them, not on me. And now that, that is what's coming up now it's suddenly, oh, it was only during the descent and everyone was buckled in. Okay, Brittany, if everyone was buckled in and it was only during the descent, how was I kicking your seat when I couldn't reach your seat from where I was sitting and had a sprained toe, how was I dumping wine on your head and pulling your hair? I wasn'. I was the next seat over. Well, I believe so nothing adds up here. It's a lot of lies and it's very frustrating.

[Joey Zauczik]

I've also spent a lot of time with you. We've had a lot of, we've gone out a lot. We've done like, I've, we've talked about show stuff. I've seen you get, you know, talking, talking, but you don't get out of control ever. You don't kick, you don't scream, you don't yell.

[Meredith Marks]

You're always, you can get a little rest.

[Joey Zauczik]

Yes.

[Meredith Marks]

And expressive. Yes.

[Joey Zauczik]

You can get expressive and riled up, but you're not kicking anyone's seat. You're not screaming and yelling. You're not pouring wine, anyone. And also going back to like, I've spent a lot of time with you and Seth too. It's like if the fact that none of those girls had your back and have spent time with both of you and no one wants to speak up to talk about your guys relationship and how great like that for me was the issue. I'm like, this is all being planted because Brittany needs to secure her spot like Jeff said. And I know that. So watching it and knowing you so well, I'm like, it's all coming from that. And that's why Britney went along with this. But it's more the disappointment in the other girls.

[Meredith Marks]

And look, the whole thing was sad. That did upset me because I was just like, why are you bringing up this obscure thing to just defame my husband who has done nothing but show up and stand up and support this show and everything else. But above and beyond that, there were other issues, some of which will come out, I believe, tonight at Reunion. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm pretty sure some of it comes out. There are other aspects that I were briefly touched on that I don't think will come out? We'll see. But there were, there were some other factors that went into it.

[Jeff Lewis]

Do you. Where do you go from here with your cast? I mean, you know, obviously Real Housewives of Salt Lake City will get picked up. I mean, it has to. And when they start, you know, when, when you get your offer to come back, how. I mean, what goes through your head? I mean, you, it's, it's, it's unsafe for you at this point?

[Meredith Marks]

Yeah, it's complicated because, you know, it's like we started, you started the whole show basically with like, why would you go back? And it's hard for me because the last thing I want to ever happen is somebody to win because they bullied me out. And so that's a problem for me. You know, that's letting them win. That's what they want. They want to isolate me and isolate Lisa so that they can take each of us down. They don't like us. That's it. I mean, it's just that simple. They either don't like me or they don't like Lisa, or they just don't like the two of us. But either we're seen as a package. We're seeing that if we can get rid of one, we have the other one isolated and we can decimate them.

[Unknown Female Guest]

Or they're jealous or intimidated by your friendship and your connection because a lot of them don't have that kind of ally with the other girls. And to see a true, genuine sisterhood. I think that they, they are jealous that they don't have. That no one has their back like.

[Jeff Lewis]

You have each other, you know, and they don't have the social standing. They don't maybe don't have the resources, you know, and there's, there's a lot of obviously reasons why people would be jealous of you. I thought about this if I was a producer. How do I fix it? I think that maybe two people should be reduced. The roles should be friend, friend roles. And I think that they should bring in one or two brand new women, preferably allies for you and Lisa, because it feels very. It doesn't feel very balanced at this point because you've got like five girls against two.

[Meredith Marks]

Yeah, no, I happen to agree with you. I mean, I think it would be great to have a little bit of a cash shake up. I don't know what that means for who or what, but I do think it would be a positive.

[Jeff Lewis]

I think they're getting to a point where it's so clearly divided now. I think they need to get in and start doing some repairing before it turns into a New Jersey situation. Because then you get to a place of no return. That would be because it is by far one of my favorite shows on the entire network. And I think it's great. I think it has really been great casting and big personalities. And I happen to like watching all of you. I don't personally like all of the girls, but I actually like watching the show.

[Meredith Marks]

I agree. I completely agree. I don't personally like everybody.

[Jeff Lewis]

Right. But I need a villain.

[Meredith Marks]

I like good entertainment. Yes, I do.

[Jeff Lewis]

You need the train wrecks. You need all of that. Do you ever feel abandoned by production or the network when these girls are allowed to say whatever they want about your character?

[Unknown Female Guest]

About.

[Jeff Lewis]

I mean, they're attacking your reputation, they're attacking your marriage, they're attacking your family. And it doesn't seem like there's much editing in the show. And if I were you, I'd feel very let down by the production company.

[Meredith Marks]

Yeah, I mean, it is a bit disheartening when you say to yourself, okay, you know, we see these circumstances, like what Monica referenced, you know, about the ambulance and whatever. That's completely. We don't hear a word about that ever. But yet you can come after me relentlessly and say, these are horrible, highly defamatory things that I am willing to prove. I will pee in a cup anytime, anywhere. So anyone listening, feel free to hand me the cup as long as I have privacy. I'm not going to do it on the street, but, I mean, I don't do drugs. I drink within, you know, a very healthy limitation, as Joey can attest to.

[Joey Zauczik]

You really do.

[Meredith Marks]

You taught me the ice chip for the martini. So. And I said from the beginning of this, I said, I am willing to take a drug test every single day of my life until you deem it that I don't do drugs. If you're willing to cut this because it's highly, highly damaging.

[Joey Zauczik]

It is.

[Jeff Lewis]

Did you find it hypocritical that Bronwyn spread gossip about your marriage? Seth specifically saying that he was so Seth was apparently allegedly having dinner with a woman that was not you in New York, which, as far as I know, that happens all the time. People have dinners, drinks, coffees, meetings with people of opposite sex that aren't their wives. Did you find it very hypocritical that she. It was kind of these veiled. Well, not very veiled, really. She was very, very clear. Very clear that she felt he was having some sort of affair. And Then coincidentally, at the exact same time, her husband is on a plane watching porn.

[Meredith Marks]

Yeah, I think it's beyond hypocritical, actually, because the. If what you were saying was the whole story, yes, I would agree that it's hypocritical, but there's more to that story. And I have text messages from Todd confirming that there were four men at the dinner with Seth and that it was very clearly a business dinner. So why she would try to spin it into something else is the bigger issue. It's not even the hypocrisy. There's always hypocrisy with me. It's not okay to talk about your marriage, but let's talk about Meredith's. It's not okay to call me names, but let's call Meredith them. Hypocrisy runs rampant on the show. This goes beyond hypocrisy. This goes beyond. I am intentionally leaving out information to spin this in a very different narrative. And I have the receipts on it. I have receipts on everything.

[Jeff Lewis]

Your husband was at a business dinner with several people.

[Meredith Marks]

Correct.

[Jeff Lewis]

Okay. Because on the show, she made it sound like it was Seth a date and another woman.

[Meredith Marks]

Correct.

[Jeff Lewis]

Failed to mention the other people sitting at the table.

[Meredith Marks]

Yes.

[Jeff Lewis]

So that's a direct attack.

[Meredith Marks]

It's a direct attack. And I also know the owner of the restaurant who confirmed the same thing.

[Jeff Lewis]

But do you find yourself now on the defensive? And now you're calling your husband. You're having to ask your husband these questions. Now he feels defensive. I mean, it's a very toxic situation, Meredith.

[Meredith Marks]

Well, the irony of all of this is it's funny, because this business dinner was actually a very important dinner that had an impact on me as well. And so I knew about it before he even went to the dinner. And he got home that night and told me. I saw Bronwyn and Todd tonight. I ran into them at the restaurant. I was like, oh, did you say hello? Blah, blah, blah? Like, it was a very simple, light conversation. So when this comes up, I know exactly what night she's talking about. I know exactly who he was with. And that's why I was like, oh, whatever. Again, really? This is what we're doing now. It's enough.

[Jeff Lewis]

There was a few times on flipping out where I would wake up, and I felt like I sold my soul to the devil. I think we sold our souls. We really did. I mean, because again, we go through these toxic, negative environments, but then we sign right back up for those paychecks.

[Meredith Marks]

You know, it's true. The problem is, like I said, I feel like if I back down, I'm letting them win. And I also don't want to give up this platform that I have to like. And it's not just about my businesses. It's about all of the things that I can do that are positive, whether it's bringing awareness to some different causes that I care about or whatever it may be, it's meaning of life kind of stuff.

[Jeff Lewis]

Do you ever feel like for me I have a plan, right? I have a very clear plan of what I want. I want to use them like they use me. Do you feel the same way?

[Meredith Marks]

I never really thought about it exactly in those terms, but yeah, I guess it's true. We all have our own goals and objectives.

[Jeff Lewis]

It's like a parasitic relationship. So many people are focused on where their money is today. Acorns is the financial wellness app that cares about where your money is going tomorrow. And with Acorns potential screen you can find out what your money is capable of. Acorns is easy. You can sign up in minutes and start automatically investing your spare money even if all you've got is spare change. Sign up now and Acorns will boost your new account with a five dollar bonus. Investment join the over 14 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $27 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.com jefflewis or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns tier 2 compensation provided potential subject to various factors such as customers accounts, age and investment settings. Does not include Acorns fees. Results do not predict or represent the performance of any Acorns portfolio. Investment results will vary. Investing involves risk. Acorns Adv Advisors LLC and SEC Registered Investment Advisor. View Important [e-mail] jefflewis now that the holidays are over, you might be feeling like you've got a big spending hangover. The drinks, the holiday food, the gifts. Luckily, Mint Mobile is here to help you cut back on overspending on wireless this January with 50% off unlimited premium Wireless. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts. This January, quit over spending on Wireless with 50% off unlimited premium wireless plans start at $15 a month at mintmobile.com Jeff Lewis that's mintmobile.com Jeff Lewis Limited time offer upfront payment of 15 $45 for three month, $90 for six month or $180 for 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees Extra initial plan term only over 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. Capable device required. Availability, speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com It's a new year and time to get back to feeling like yourself. If losing weight is one of your 2026 goals and you're ready to make progress you can count on, then weight loss by hers might be the right fit for you. Hers goes beyond medication by offering access to ongoing care, dosage and medication adjustments, lifestyle and nutrition tips and 247 support with no hidden costs or membership fees. All paired with a program designed by weight loss experts to help build healthy habits related to diet and exercise. Feel like your best self again? Visit forhers.com issues to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you that's F O-R-H-E-R-S.com issues for hers.com issues weight loss by hers is not available everywhere. Compounded drug products are not approved or evaluated for safety, effectiveness or quality by the fda. Prescription required. See website for full details, important safety information and restrictions. Actual price depends on product and plan purchased. When you're dating, you make sure to ask all the right questions so you can find the right person. Well, the same goes if you're hiring. You definitely want to address key questions first to see if someone can be right for your role. That's why you need ZipRecruiter. When you post your job, ZipRecruiter suggests screening questions to help you hone in on top candidates faster, and today you can try it for [e-mail] Chump ZipRecruiter's matching technology immediately finds qualified candidates that check all your boxes, then even recommend screening questions so you can easily add to get the highest quality applicants. As roles have opened up in my office, I've consistently relied on ZipRecruiter to connect me to a pool of qualified candidates. And you can rely on ZipRecruiter too. Ask key questions and hire faster. With ZipRecruiter, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at ziprecruiter.com chump that's ziprecruiter.com chum Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Let's take line one Fern in Dallas.

[Fern]

Hi Fern hi Shout out, Chuck.

[Unknown Female Guest]

Shout out, Fern.

[Meredith Marks]

Hey, Meredith, how are you?

[Fern]

Hi, Meredith. I'm great. How are you?

[Meredith Marks]

I am great.

[Fern]

Well, I wanted to first compliment and say that you looked really good on the reunion couch. Some people over spray, they just over, you know, tan sprayed. So you looked great.

[Meredith Marks]

Thank you, but.

[Fern]

You're welcome. But I wanted to ask you a question. So Lisa had said that she did not go on that RV road trip because she had an important event to attend and she was name dropping Ben and Blake Lively. But then Ben comes back and says he hasn't been to Utah in years. Can you defend that on her part or what are your thoughts on that?

[Meredith Marks]

Yeah, the event they were at was not in Utah. And I don't think Lisa was trying to say like, oh, I'm besties with him. I think it was more like, I'm going to this event that he's, you know, for him, I think it was for a movie. And, you know, I know that like, if I'm hosting an event, I meet a million and one people at it and I don't necessarily remember every single person, which is what he was kind of saying. He was like, I don't want to throw anyone under the bus. Like, we meet a million and one people. So I don't. I think it was kind of like taken to a level that she didn't intend it to go to. That's my interpretation. I think it was just sort of like, yeah, I'm going to this event with, you know, Ben and Blake will be there, you know, whatever, but not like, oh, we're besties and I'm spending the whole night with them. You know, she's not the best.

[Jeff Lewis]

Thank you, Fearne. Lisa's not the best arguer in the world and she does get very emotional and she gets defensive. And what I would say to her as her friend, I think when you are successful, when you reach a certain level, I don't think she needs to be constantly defending herself because I think that, that she doesn't need to say a word. Right. I think that the proof is what, what she and John have accomplished together. I don't think she has to constantly remind these women of what she's accomplished. She doesn't need to do that.

[Meredith Marks]

I agree with you. And I think that at this point she probably agrees with you too. I, I think it's a difficult position for her because they are coming after her over all of these things and her business. And it's. And I, and I know what it's like too. Like when someone's telling you you are this, you are that, you do this, you do that, and none of it's true, of course you're going to defend yourself. And then it's like, oh, you're defensive. So now it's all true. You know, it's, it's a game and it's, it's a really shitty game. That's the bottom line.

[Jeff Lewis]

Like, are you just shocked by some of your cast members lack of integrity, that they will just make shit up, that they will lie, that I mean, that they purposely are. You know, I don't know if they really are truly thinking about the long term damage of what they do to people's careers and businesses and reputations and families and relationships and I mean, I'm curious. This has to put some sort of strain on your marriage. Has to, when you're constantly defending yourself.

[Meredith Marks]

Actually, weirdly, the show has, for my marriage has made it better, I think because of all of this nonsense. Seth and I are just like, oh gosh, here we go. You know, and it almost makes us closer because we're fighting this together. But the lack of integrity, yeah, that's a major issue. I mean, it's like completely incredulous to me. I don't understand that. I could never do some of those things. Like they want to spread lies about me. I could tell the truths about a lot of things that I just keep hold back, you know, because I think it's not right.

[Jeff Lewis]

It's survival. They don't want to go back to whatever lives they had beforehand. And then when someone gets divorced.

[Meredith Marks]

And I think they also want to, to deflect from some of their own wrongdoings or in some cases project as we've seen.

[Jeff Lewis]

So now that I saw, you know, now that we've heard that, you know, Bronwyn has separated from Todd, I'm like, here we go. Here's another one that needs a paycheck. So they're going to be all in.

[Joey Zauczik]

She's going to ramp it up.

[Jeff Lewis]

All in for sure.

[Unknown Female Guest]

She's ramped up.

[Meredith Marks]

We got a lot of women that you know, are clawing here and it's going to be interesting. We'll see how it unfolds.

[Jeff Lewis]

So the. Were you surprised to hear that Tod, Todd and Bronwyn have separated?

[Meredith Marks]

I mean, yes and no. It was clear from even just the things Bronwyn herself was saying that there were some issues there. So from that standpoint, I guess not. But from the standpoint that I don't really judge other people's Relationships, because everybody has their own dynamics and if they're working for you, great. There are a lot of relationships.

[Jeff Lewis]

You think that was working for them. Meredith, did you watch the show?

[Meredith Marks]

Well, well, yes, but my point is like what everyone's expectations are from a relationship are different. And maybe Brahman was happy with that. I don't know. And maybe Todd was happy with that.

[Jeff Lewis]

I can't seem happy to me.

[Joey Zauczik]

Off the Sunday with a face that he was so happy. Like, I think it seems like. And like you're right, you don't know. But I feel like the show can put for them specifically. You could see like he did not want to be there. She was so excited to be there. And like that's where they clashed. But sometimes I think, in my opinion, I feel like girls will go on the show because they want to get out of their marriage and think, this is my platform, this is my time. Let's ramp it up. But you can't rely on it to be like the forever. But when the, like the Whitneys of the world, like when you start relying on it, you get, start to get crazy and start to, you know, it.

[Jeff Lewis]

Gets bad in some ways. When I, you know, when I was watching it, I thought this poor woman is trapped in this marriage. And it, you know, the marriage was exposed. I mean, let's be honest, it didn't, it didn't look like the healthiest relationship. And you know, we could say we don't judge. I judge. I judge and I was judging and it didn't look like a very happy relationship. It wouldn't be something that I would want in my life. And so in a way, I thought this show maybe will be her freedom to getting out of a unhappy, loveless marriage. And for that I'm happy for Bronwyn. But I think what I don't like is that, you know, obviously the need to stay on the show now and to make up lies and you know, and to go after the castmates to secure that position. I don't, I don't condone that part, but I mean, I hope it creates opportunities for her to be self sufficient and independent and not have to ever be in a rel. Like a loveless relationship.

[Meredith Marks]

Of course you don't want anybody to be in a loveless relationship. I mean, that's not good. But I don't know that I would say the relationship was loveless. That's not how I would describe it necessarily.

[Joey Zauczik]

I didn't see any love. I'm sorry.

[Meredith Marks]

Okay. But I did seem to have a Lot of respect. I've actually been with them in person. Maybe it's a little bit different than just watching them on tv. I would not have just. Look, is it the relationship I would personally want? No, but I would never. I don't. I would not have described it as a loveless relationship.

[Jeff Lewis]

Okay?

[Meredith Marks]

I would not.

[Jeff Lewis]

Now, Jen Shaw, you always had a nice relationship with her, correct?

[Meredith Marks]

Not exactly. We had a lot of ups and downs. A lot of ups and downs. I mean, we had some big problems regarding Brooks and we had a rocky run, but we had some great times, too.

[Jeff Lewis]

You actually spoke to her when she was incarcerated, is that correct?

[Meredith Marks]

Yes, she called, I'd say about a year and a half ago, maybe. And it was like a 10 minute recorded call. And it was, you know, very basic. You know, it's not. It was just, how's your family?

[Jeff Lewis]

And do you believe in second chances?

[Meredith Marks]

100%.

[Jeff Lewis]

Will you. Do you think you'll have any sort of relationship with her now?

[Meredith Marks]

Well, she called me two days ago.

[Jeff Lewis]

Oh, she did?

[Meredith Marks]

Yes. And I spoke to her. You know, I'm rooting for her. Like, I hope that she can do her best to right the wrongs that she did. And I mean, she has served her time. That's step one. Yes, she is paying restitution. I don't know how much she has or has not paid, but she's in the process. That, to me, is step two. Hopefully she can get all these people paid back and show that she's, you know, putting a positive foot forward. And I would love to see that for her. I think everyone would like. Why wouldn't you want someone to be accountable, do their best to right the wrongs they did, and then move forward? That's life.

[Jeff Lewis]

Speaking of being accountable and righting the wrongs moving forward, Joey, you had over the last week, you had said that you have become Joey 2.0, is that correct? And that you're gonna be working on righting some of the wrongs you've done in the last few months.

[Joey Zauczik]

The journey to Joey 2.0. The journey to Joey is starting. But yeah, I mean.

[Jeff Lewis]

Well, let's play a little game today then. It's called Joey 2.0 don't go well.

[Meredith Marks]

With our group or.

[Jeff Lewis]

Oh, hell no, Joey, the last time you were here, you promised we'd be getting a brand new Joey. I'm gonna give you a scenario and you tell us if it's something the new Joey would do. Joey 2.0, or behavior you're leaving in the past. Oh, hell no. One text. A toxic ex.

[Joey Zauczik]

Oh, hell no.

[Jeff Lewis]

Isn't that Joey 2.0?

[Joey Zauczik]

Or Joe?

[Unknown Female Guest]

No, he's gonna leave that behind.

[Joey Zauczik]

No, I'm leaving that behind. I am working on myself.

[Jeff Lewis]

Oh, hell no. Buying things you can't afford to treat yourself.

[Joey Zauczik]

Oh, hell no.

[Jeff Lewis]

Oh, hell no. Getting too drunk at paid work events.

[Joey Zauczik]

Oh, hell no.

[Unknown Female Guest]

Oh, hell no.

[Meredith Marks]

That didn't sound very convincing.

[Joey Zauczik]

Nowadays.

[Jeff Lewis]

That was hooking up with a stranger on an airplane.

[Joey Zauczik]

Well, probably. Joey 2.0.

[Jeff Lewis]

Okay, at least you're being honest.

[Unknown Female Guest]

You could bring that with you.

[Jeff Lewis]

Having a threesome. Having a threesome with a girl not pulling out and needed to purchase a plan B. Oh, hell no. Oh, hell no. Over inflating how much money you make.

[Joey Zauczik]

Oh, hell no.

[Jeff Lewis]

Oh, hell no. Taking someone else's drink after finishing your own Joey 2.0.

[Meredith Marks]

Absolutely.

[Joey Zauczik]

I'm bringing that. I'm bringing that one. I'm so sad.

[Meredith Marks]

If you don't do that for me.

[Joey Zauczik]

I have to bring that back. Of course.

[Jeff Lewis]

Licking the serving spoons clean after enjoying tableside guacamole with friends.

[Joey Zauczik]

I'm gonna say Joey 2.0.

[Jeff Lewis]

Work bitch. Work bitch. Telling a friend that you own your apartment when you rent it, then offering to buy their condo.

[Joey Zauczik]

Did I do that? Oh, hell no.

[Jeff Lewis]

Oh, hell no. Making out with a co worker in the green room.

[Joey Zauczik]

Oh, hell no.

[Jeff Lewis]

Oh, hell no.

[Joey Zauczik]

Especially that situation.

[Meredith Marks]

I don't. I don't believe that one.

[Jeff Lewis]

Sending nudes. Sending nudes at the drop of a hat.

[Joey Zauczik]

Joey 2.0, if someone's gonna ask for it, bad idea.

[Jeff Lewis]

And the last one? Not taking other people's advice.

[Joey Zauczik]

Oh, hell no.

[Jeff Lewis]

Do you have any Salt Lake City questions for Meredith?

[Unknown Female Guest]

How's your relationship with Mary? And have you guys been watching the documentary? Has that so.

[Meredith Marks]

I have not watched the documentary. I was in Mexico when it came out and on vacation, and that just didn't really appeal to me. But, you know, Mary and I have. Our relationship's been very up and down over these last couple of years. I'm confused. In all honesty. I'm very confused by her, you know? And I just have to see how things unfold, you know?

[Jeff Lewis]

She's been very inconsistent.

[Meredith Marks]

Yes, that's the thing. It's like, she'll tell me how much she loves me, and then, like, she'll say all these other things and. And, like, the stuff that I feel like her being worried and concerned about me, that's fine. Like, that. I appreciate somebody being concerned if. If it's, you know, genuine. And do I think she had a Lot of other things going on in her life that skewed her view on it? Yes, I do. Do I think she had a lot of people in her ear relentlessly trying to convince her of something? Yeah, I do. We saw how she talked about the plane when she was on the red carpet at BravoCon, and it was kind of a little bit of a different vibe than what we saw in the show. So I think it. There. There was a lot going on there, and maybe that's all that it is, but it's just. Just. It's a little confusing and I just have to watch and see how things unfold there.

[Unknown Female Guest]

That's a good point. Because both her and Whitney have been affected by alcoholism and addiction, so they consider themselves experts on some case of it. But also they might just be so hypersensitive and. And speaking so far out of turn because they think that they can identify something that they can't.

[Meredith Marks]

Look, do I think Mary was genuinely concerned? Yes, I do. Do I think it was warranted? No, I don't. But I think she was being told a lot of things, and at the end of the day, if she that concerned, I think she would have gone to my family, and she didn't. So she was talking and expressing something that I think was real, but I don't think it was at the level that it gets interpreted at.

[Jeff Lewis]

I think it's interesting that they. In the season finale where they. One of their reasoning. Part of their reasoning is that you have some sort of issue is that you're so shut down and you're not being vulnerable with them and you're not opening up. And you said something that very much resonated with me and it said, why would I be vulnerable? People that are trying. Trying to hurt me.

[Meredith Marks]

Correct.

[Jeff Lewis]

You shut down. Of course. That's what you do. You protect yourself. You can't trust any of them. And in. Except for Lisa. And I do want to ask you of the girl gang, right? So there's Brittany, Heather, Mary, Angie, Whitney. The girl gang. What. Who. Who were you most hurt by? Who did the most damage this season, in your opinion?

[Meredith Marks]

I'm not really sure that she did the most damage, but I was the most hurt by Heather. Yeah, you know, that was definitely the most hurtful situation because I did think she was my friend. Like Whitney's always played these games with me. I've never really thought that Whitney wanted to be my friend. And Britney clearly just hates me and has from the beginning. Not necessarily the way beginning, but yeah, I mean, and Angie didn't do that much. And Mary, I think, had a lot going on and was concerned. And I don't think it was out of ill will with her.

[Jeff Lewis]

Heather can be aggressive. I think she's. Look, I think she's a great character on the show, but she can be very aggressive and off putting.

[Meredith Marks]

Yeah.

[Unknown Female Guest]

And then it does become a no win scenario. Cause you're like, okay, I will put on my swimsuit. I'll come out and I'll have a good time. And then you're out there smiling. And they're like, see, there she is. She's on drugs. Cause she having fun at the pool.

[Meredith Marks]

I mean, if I'm having fun, if I'm sad, I'm in trouble. If I talk, I'm in trouble. If I don't talk, I'm in trouble. Like, yeah, it's exactly a no win. Forget it.

[Jeff Lewis]

Like, I really hope they do a little bit of restructuring to make it a little bit easier for you.

[Meredith Marks]

I hope so. I hope so. You know, we'll see. This is not the first year that it's been like this. I mean, when we go back to, like, Bermuda, it was a very similar kind of situation. And I really didn't get many apologies after.

[Jeff Lewis]

The good news is, is that, you know, Justin Sylvester and I were talking about this. There's always this kind of sacrificial lamb. You were season six, then it'll be someone else in season seven. You're probably good in season seven.

[Meredith Marks]

I kind of was saying the same thing. I think the odd number seasons are always a little easier for me.

[Jeff Lewis]

I think you're fine.

[Meredith Marks]

They just come after. They'll probably just go back to Lisa.

[Jeff Lewis]

Thanks for listening. If you want more of this, listen to Jeff Lewis Ladd every weekday on Sirius XM as well as the Jeff Lewis Channel, exclusively on the SiriusXM app.

[Meredith Marks]

At Amica Insurance, we know it's not just about where you're going, but who you go with. That's why we work even harder to protect what matters most. Visit ameca.com and get a quote. Today try Angel Soft for your tushy. It's made by Angels Soft and Strong. Budget friendly. The choice is simple. Pick up a pack today. Angel Soft. Soft and strong. Simple.