Susan Powter & Carnie Wilson: Insanity & Strip Clubs

Summary

Jeff Lewis Has Issues

Episode: Susan Powter & Carnie Wilson: Insanity & Strip Clubs
Release Date: March 5, 2025
Host/Author: SiriusXM
Description: Jeff Lewis delves deep into the tumultuous life of Susan Powter, exploring her rise to fame, personal struggles, and the raw honesty that defines her journey. Joined by Carnie Wilson, the episode offers an unfiltered look into themes of resilience, betrayal, and self-discovery.

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Introduction

The episode opens with a brief exchange between Susan Powter and Jeff Lewis, setting a candid and unguarded tone. Susan begins by reminiscing about her early days, highlighting her famous infomercials and her hit book, Stop the Insanity.

Susan Powter’s Early Life and Rise to Fame

Susan Powter shares her journey from Australia to the United States, detailing the cultural shock of moving to New York at age 10. She recounts her rebellious teenage years, including dropping out of school and working at a nursing home in Florida to support herself.

Susan Powter [03:19]: "I was just a housewife who figured something out and got pissed off and started talking to other women."

Powter discusses her early struggles, including an unexpected pregnancy and her decision to marry swiftly. She emphasizes her independence and resistance to societal norms regarding single motherhood.

Entering the Fitness and Self-Help Industry

Despite lacking formal training, Powter ventured into fitness, teaching aerobics classes in Dallas. Her unconventional approach—integrating high-energy music and a no-nonsense attitude—resonated with many women, leading to packed classes and eventual mainstream recognition.

Susan Powter [14:48]: "I just walked back and forth with them with a radius of like this, not even a half a block. And I did it every day, seven days a week."

Powter’s determination to improve her own health inspired her to educate herself about nutrition and fitness, leading to the creation of her influential book series.

Career Highlights and Challenges

Powter describes her meteoric rise, highlighting the success of Stop the Insanity, which generated $276 million in its first year. However, this success was marred by severe mismanagement. She reveals how her manager siphoned off 50% of her earnings, leading to exorbitant legal bills totaling over six million dollars.

Susan Powter [36:20]: "I never checked on all the attorneys, I never checked on the managers, I never checked on the agents. It's my fault 100%."

The betrayal by her management team forced Powter to sever all professional ties abruptly, resulting in a significant downturn in her career and personal life.

Personal Struggles and Reinvention

After the fallout, Powter relocated to Seattle, where she faced homelessness following the death of her dog, Em. She candidly discusses her lowest moments, including living in a camper and working multiple jobs to survive.

Susan Powter [43:19]: "I had no credit score at all."

Powter’s resilience shines through as she rebuilds her life from the ground up, teaching organic cooking classes and eventually writing her memoir, And Then M Died. Stop the Insanity. M Memoir, which serves as both a tribute to her late dog and a cathartic recount of her tumultuous journey.

Susan Powter [40:54]: "It's a real, you know, intense relationship. But in answer to your question, my love for women has always been just the respect."

Reflections and Insights

Throughout the episode, Powter reflects on the concept of "insanity" she addressed in her books—not just in fitness, but in broader societal issues affecting women. She emphasizes the importance of internal wellness and advocating for consumer awareness against harmful products.

Susan Powter [25:16]: "It's about motherhood. It was about baby food. It was about Pampers versus cotton diapers. It was about the demineralization of the soil. It was about Monsanto."

Powter also touches on her personal identity, revealing her journey towards embracing her sexuality and her enduring respect and support for women.

Susan Powter [22:39]: "I adore women. I adore women. Like, I just love women."

Conclusion

The episode culminates with Powter acknowledging her past mistakes and the lessons learned from her experiences. She underscores the significance of honesty, self-reliance, and the relentless pursuit of one’s truth despite overwhelming odds.

Susan Powter [43:54]: "I work Uber Eats and I've worked it for nine years, so don't tell me about hard work. I know this."

Powter’s story is a testament to enduring resilience and the power of self-belief, offering listeners both inspiration and a stark reminder of the complexities behind public success.

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Notable Quotes

• Susan Powter [03:19]:
  "I was just a housewife who figured something out and got pissed off and started talking to other women."

• Susan Powter [14:48]:
  "I just walked back and forth with them with a radius of like this, not even a half a block. And I did it every day, seven days a week."

• Susan Powter [25:16]:
  "It's about motherhood. It was about baby food. It was about Pampers versus cotton diapers. It was about the demineralization of the soil. It was about Monsanto."

• Susan Powter [36:20]:
  "I never checked on all the attorneys, I never checked on the managers, I never checked on the agents. It's my fault 100%."

• Susan Powter [43:54]:
  "I work Uber Eats and I've worked it for nine years, so don't tell me about hard work. I know this."

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Key Takeaways

• Resilience in Adversity: Powter’s journey from a successful fitness guru to facing financial and personal hardships highlights the unpredictable nature of fame and the importance of resilience.

• Honesty and Authenticity: Throughout her story, Powter emphasizes the value of speaking the truth and staying authentic, even when faced with betrayal and loss.

• Impact of Mismanagement: Her experiences shed light on the pitfalls of poor management and the critical need for diligent oversight in professional endeavors.

• Personal Growth and Identity: Powter’s reflections on her sexuality and personal relationships underscore the ongoing journey of self-discovery and acceptance.

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Final Thoughts

Jeff Lewis expertly navigates Susan Powter’s intricate narrative, balancing moments of triumph with periods of vulnerability. The inclusion of Carnie Wilson adds depth, offering empathetic insights and reinforcing the episode’s themes of empowerment and self-advocacy. For listeners seeking an unvarnished exploration of a multifaceted life, this episode stands out as a compelling and thought-provoking experience.

Transcript

[Susan Powder]

Whistle while you work.

[Jeff Lewis]

From Disney. On March 21, the magical tale Snow White.

[Susan Powder]

Snow White. Snow White that started it all. I believe you're looking for me.

[Jeff Lewis]

Arrives in theaters.

[Susan Powder]

Magic Mirror on the Wall Experience. The Disney classic who's the fairest one of all?

[Jeff Lewis]

Like never before.

[Susan Powder]

We haven't even been in Revolution.

[Jeff Lewis]

Disney. Snow White. Only in theaters March 21st. Rated PG.

[Susan Powder]

Parental guidance suggested.

[Jeff Lewis]

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[Carnie Wilson]

When you're Jeff Lewis, the drama never stops.

[Jeff Lewis]

I mean, I'm doing charity right now. I think that twice in one year you're doing charity. Yes, twice. What was the first one?

[Susan Powder]

You went to dinner with me. Do people want to be in your circle?

[Jeff Lewis]

Buy your way into friendship with Jeff Lewis? I think people are trying to get out.

[Carnie Wilson]

When I first started coming here, I.

[Susan Powder]

Was like, jeff Lewis.

[Carnie Wilson]

Jeff Lewis has issues.

[Jeff Lewis]

Hey, it's Jeff Lewis and I have issues. In today's episode, Susan Powder and Carney Wilson join the show. We talk about fitness Empire's stripper names and sugar daddies. It has been a while since we have seen you on television. I want to just refresh my listeners who you are. You're a health and wellness expert, a motivational speaker, an author. You published the hit book Stop the insanity in 1993, promoting a lifestyle focused on whole foods, exercise and strength training. And then you blew up and you wrote, what, seven books?

[Susan Powder]

Seven books. Nine platinum videos. Fabulous. But it was a very consolidated short, you know, Hugely. Wow. Time. Stop the Insanity.

[Jeff Lewis]

Five years. Correct.

[Susan Powder]

Was that the right five years? It was about five years, yeah.

[Jeff Lewis]

Okay. You became one of the most famous people in America in the 90s. And I remember you could not get away from those infomercials.

[Carnie Wilson]

It's true.

[Jeff Lewis]

You flip the channels and then there you are.

[Carnie Wilson]

Yep.

[Jeff Lewis]

And screaming at the top of your lungs.

[Susan Powder]

Top of the lungs.

[Jeff Lewis]

Stop the insanity.

[Carnie Wilson]

But always with the greatest intentions and so much integrity. You've always.

[Susan Powder]

Thank you, Harney Wilson. Thank you very, very much.

[Carnie Wilson]

I've always admired that about you. And I Know that you. Because you're someone that has experienced shit.

[Susan Powder]

Yeah.

[Carnie Wilson]

You know what I mean?

[Susan Powder]

Well, it's interesting because when it hit. Because nobody believed anything. Nobody. They were like, you know, oh, we so believe you were funny and talented. It's like you didn't know no hair. Nobody wanted to talk to me, but they would always ask me afterwards, what. What did you do that was different? Why did that happen? I would always say, did you ever think about telling the damn truth? Just telling the truth? Like, not trying to be a. I never said fitness guru. I never said any of that. The press said that in the 90s. I've never called myself a fitness guru. You know what I called myself, Speaking of housewives? What I said in 1992, I said, I'm just a housewife who figured it out.

[Carnie Wilson]

Wow.

[Jeff Lewis]

So we gotta back way up.

[Susan Powder]

Way up.

[Jeff Lewis]

So you were born in Australia, you moved to the States when you were 10, and you lived in New York, Correct. Not the city, but outside the city.

[Susan Powder]

We moved from Australia. Dominican Catholic Convent. Very different Australia. Moved to Virginia for like 10 seconds, and then to New York. New York. Very different life. It was shocking for. I mean, it was shocking for my mother, it was just shocking. It was a real cultural difference, you know.

[Jeff Lewis]

But you came from a financially comfortable background.

[Susan Powder]

Very.

[Jeff Lewis]

Your parents were educated, correct?

[Susan Powder]

Yes.

[Jeff Lewis]

Your dad had a great job. He'd commute to the city every day. But for whatever reason, that life did not work for you. Correct?

[Susan Powder]

Well, you know, it's funny because when you think about the 70s, and you think, you know, my parents, country club, everybody's drinking, everybody's doing. We were. I was a wild child. I was not tame in any way. I was. I mean, I am what I am, and I've been that way since I'm born. So it was just a very different energy. I mean, we'd go into the city, we'd do whatever we want. And I did things very young. I failed miserably in school on a level. As a matter of fact, my father, who was a very bright man, and we were very close, we just understood each other. But my. I got a report card in seventh grade and there were five F's. And I'm smart. And my father's comment was, for God's sake, Susan, how does one fail, Jim? And you know what my answer was? Ms. Ellen Bogan. She doesn't like me.

[Carnie Wilson]

That's so funny.

[Susan Powder]

How does one fail gym, Susan. Five Fs. And then I dropped out of school. I left.

[Jeff Lewis]

You dropped out of. Was it high school?

[Carnie Wilson]

High school?

[Susan Powder]

No, not even high school. I mean, I don't know when official. No, no, no. When it officially was, but I stopped going to school. Basically all the hippies were there. We would smoke cigarettes and get detention from Mr. Whatever his name was. And, you know, we would just. No, I was always out with the seniors smoking cigarettes.

[Carnie Wilson]

I used to smoke cigarettes with the teachers because I didn't. I didn't care about school at all.

[Susan Powder]

Neither did I, but didn't you were raised like you were.

[Carnie Wilson]

I mean, it was pretty liberal and like, you know, the 60s rock and roll lifestyle or 70s. But what I've noticed about you is that you've kept. You have this energy about you that this, like. And that's why I think you are a motivator, because I feel like this is built in energy. You were born with that energy.

[Susan Powder]

And it doesn't always work, Ms. Carney Wilson, in the world, not as a woman. We can turn it.

[Carnie Wilson]

Well, we can turn it against ourselves. I understand you in a way. I don't really know you, but I understand.

[Susan Powder]

Thank you.

[Carnie Wilson]

Because I know that. I hope that. And I would assume that there's part of you that feels like you have a purpose in this world. And by the way, whatever you've been through, where you were, where you are now, I just want to say at the top of the show that you were meant to be who you are.

[Susan Powder]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[Carnie Wilson]

And you have touched a lot of people and you have helped and touched lives, and that's something that I think you can go to sleep at night, put your head on that pillow and say, you know what? Whatever's happening right now in my life, I know that there's somebody out there that has benefited from what I've said.

[Susan Powder]

Well, I appreciate. I never came at it from. I didn't. I literally was a housewife that figured something out and I got pissed off and I started talking to other women.

[Jeff Lewis]

So first of all, though, you go. You run away when you're 14. Correct. And you go to Florida.

[Susan Powder]

I went to Florida.

[Jeff Lewis]

And you work at a. I think I was 15.

[Susan Powder]

Yeah. Something like that.

[Jeff Lewis]

Assisted living.

[Susan Powder]

No, no. I worked at a nursing home. Literally at a. Lied. Because, I mean, I was, you know, like, I just grabbed my breasts for everyone listening in radio.

[Jeff Lewis]

You were mature.

[Susan Powder]

I just grabbed my breasts.

[Carnie Wilson]

I'm grabbing mine all the time.

[Susan Powder]

All the time.

[Jeff Lewis]

So you were mature looking and acting and.

[Susan Powder]

I was not in any way. I was very confident. I was lucky to be exposed to education, the world and you know, whatever. I got a job in a nursing home and I loved working with the elderly. I mean, it was Florida, 1980. That was like not even, maybe 70. I don't know the dates of anything, but I loved working with them. I just loved it. And I just had my own apartment and had a boyfriend and ran away from home. Just left. I was done.

[Jeff Lewis]

And then how long were you in Florida?

[Susan Powder]

Oh, a couple of years.

[Jeff Lewis]

And then where did you go?

[Susan Powder]

I went back to New York.

[Jeff Lewis]

Okay.

[Susan Powder]

You know, it was. You just. I went back like, I'm ready to come home now. You know, I called my father, like, dad, I'm ready to go.

[Carnie Wilson]

So you're in your late teens and you go back to New York.

[Susan Powder]

And then I just did. I just lived my life. I got jobs everywhere. You know what I was really good at? I was a recruiter in New York on Lexington Avenue. I was really good at that job back in the day where you used to recruit for job, you know, jobs, secretarial jobs, whatever. Loved doing that. Loved it.

[Jeff Lewis]

Then why'd you leave?

[Susan Powder]

Oh, I mean, I left everything. Okay. So, I mean, I left every, you know, when I get bored, I'm done or it didn't work, so I got fired. I have no idea. Like for a long time. I lived in Manhattan and worked there for a long time. And then I ended up literally, I don't know, early 20s. Whenever it was accidentally getting pregnant wasn't. I wasn't planning it at all. I was shocked.

[Jeff Lewis]

Were you married?

[Susan Powder]

Was I married to him then? I don't know.

[Jeff Lewis]

Did you marry him after the child? Did you marry him?

[Susan Powder]

No, no, no, no, we were. Oh, no, we were married. We got married in my mother's living room. We were married, but I was like six weeks pregnant. I mean, I don't know, I was pregnant. Like I was shocked. I was shocked.

[Jeff Lewis]

You got married because you were pregnant?

[Susan Powder]

No, I couldn't have done that. I don't care about that. I can have my own baby. Who said I have to be married to have a damn baby today? Is that real?

[Jeff Lewis]

No, no. Okay, fine.

[Susan Powder]

No, I would never have. No, I can do what I want. No, but I had the baby. And this is the whole. Stop the insanity. And I appreciate what you said, Carney, because I never said. I'm a fitness expert. I literally was a single mother of two babies. I had two babies a year apart. Both 10 pound babies like you don't even know. I was in Garland, Texas, which was not where I was raised or what I was Used to. And I knew I was screwed. I knew I was financially screwed because the prince walked out. The whole Stop the insanity story is about the prince. That's what women loved, the prince.

[Jeff Lewis]

Leaving your first husband?

[Susan Powder]

Yeah, I call him the Prince.

[Jeff Lewis]

He left you?

[Susan Powder]

Yes. He got a girlfriend when I had a one month old and a one year old, one month old and one year old in Garland, Texas. So I knew I was screwed financially. Like, everybody listening. Single mothers. Hello, Single mothers. Anybody know that we're. And now.

[Jeff Lewis]

Why didn't you go home? Why didn't you ask your parents for help?

[Susan Powder]

We're not that family. I'm not that family. We're not. We're never. I was never really close to my mom at all. Like, never. She didn't listen. The bottom line is I don't analyze. I don't talk disrespectfully about anyone, and I don't speak badly about my parents. But my mother, I annoyed her from the minute I was born. My energy annoyed her. She was very English and proper and restrained. Beautiful and thin and little and, you know, she was elegant. Very elegant. The finest fabric. She was really lovely. I mean, lovely. My energy from the second I was born annoyed her. And I knew it. And I'm not sad about it, by the way. I don't believe in trauma. I'm fine. I would walk into it. My breasts annoyed her. When I started developing double D breath, I mean, it was like, what? Oh, I just. We were never close, and I always knew that I kind of annoyed her. So I never called my mother. I mean, I didn't call mom and say, could you come babysit for the kids?

[Carnie Wilson]

Right.

[Jeff Lewis]

So then what do you do, Susan? Your prince walks out, you don't have a job. He's not supporting you.

[Susan Powder]

Oh, God, no. It's even worse than that. My father had bought a restaurant, which was a very expensive restaurant in Irving, Texas. And instead of me running the restaurant like I damn well should have, he ran the restaurant into the ground. And I'm, like, at home, you know, nursing two babies at once. Like, no, what I did was quite simple. I knew I was financially in trouble as a single mother. And I say to everyone listening, the child care in this day and age is horrific. It's utterly. You can't afford. You just can't. So back in 1980, I think my son is 42, 80 something, too. It was. I knew I was screwed. So I got a job as a stripper in Dallas, Texas, and I was damn good at it. Jeff Lewis.

[Jeff Lewis]

Really?

[Susan Powder]

Yes.

[Jeff Lewis]

Good dancer.

[Susan Powder]

The gentleman rhythm. Oh, it's not just a dance.

[Jeff Lewis]

Great body.

[Susan Powder]

Good body. Because I lost £130, right? I. I lost the weight, and I. I just literally walked into the club. Had never done it before, but I did it differently. I did it. I wore Laura Ashley dresses. Remember? Laura Ashley with a floral. With a petticoat. I. My music was like Stevie Nicks Leather and Lace. You know, like, it.

[Carnie Wilson]

I can't really put together sex and Laura Ashley, but, you know.

[Susan Powder]

But no, you know what I did? It's very good. I came down on the main stage, I'd have a dress.

[Carnie Wilson]

Oh, like the good girl.

[Susan Powder]

Like little, like. Oh, and hold up the skirt and. You don't want to see my breasts, do you? You know, whatever. It worked like a charm, kid, because.

[Jeff Lewis]

You had all these. So what were the other girls on stage like you were saying that they.

[Susan Powder]

Well, Teresa, who. I had to, actually, because she was harassing a young woman who was very underage. Teresa used to go on stage and light her nipples on fire. Okay, okay. But let me tell you what I had to do with Teresa.

[Jeff Lewis]

What?

[Susan Powder]

Because she was harassing this young girl really badly, and I lost my temper. And the way I showed her she shouldn't do it is I grabbed her by the throat and threw her up against the locker.

[Carnie Wilson]

Oh, God.

[Susan Powder]

And I said, leave her alone. Leave her alone or I'll choke you to death. Leave her alone. Never bothered her again.

[Jeff Lewis]

And what was your stripper name?

[Susan Powder]

Bernadette. Because I was given a name of two. I don't remember the other one, but it had something to do with vagina. So it was like, you know, pussy wonder. And it was like, oh, no, thank you, Bernadette. Long, beautiful wig. I look good in hair. I looked good in that wig. Laura Ashley dresses. Sexy, quiet music. When it was like, stroke me, stroke me. You know the music of the 80s. You know, I love the 80s.

[Jeff Lewis]

I would have loved a Stevie Nicks moment.

[Susan Powder]

You would have tipped and you would have understood the. Oh, bye.

[Jeff Lewis]

Not this one.

[Carnie Wilson]

Leather and lace.

[Jeff Lewis]

Why is this what you dance to? This is a little slow.

[Susan Powder]

No, it isn't. When you look, you come down.

[Carnie Wilson]

Take from me my legs.

[Susan Powder]

Take my legs. No. Yeah, you hold the petticoat up. Like, look at me. I'm dancing right now. I'm 67, for Christ's sake.

[Carnie Wilson]

Yeah, let's. Let's.

[Susan Powder]

It was very sexy. Of course, it was very quiet. And I never. When I tipped, I went down to tip. I would always turn to the side. They never touch And I would open my, you know, teabac. Really very classy. And they loved it because it wasn't happening in the club.

[Carnie Wilson]

But during this time when you were going through this, don't you think you were building your, your own self esteem?

[Susan Powder]

No, I don't believe in any of that. Carnie Wilson. Wait, wait. No, I tell you what I was doing. No, I don't. I don't believe in that. I'm not a very.

[Carnie Wilson]

You're a motivational speaker, but you don't believe in self esteem?

[Susan Powder]

I, no, I, I, no, I. Not the way most people think about it. But I can tell you what I was doing, man. Which to me of self esteem, I was the same. What I would do is I'd take my cash. I was the only one that wasn't doing drugs, drinking, getting crazy. Although I did break both my feet because some idiot. Anyway, that's a whole other story. But I was the only one that wasn't crazy. I would take my cash every night. I would go home, stash it under the mattress, literally. And I paid all my own bills. As a single mother, that's self esteem to me. I paid my damn bills and love dancing. But I would strip right now. I'd go right now to a club. I'm 67.

[Jeff Lewis]

Same.

[Carnie Wilson]

I would do that.

[Susan Powder]

I mean, I'm not gonna do that to Stevie Nicks. Loved it.

[Carnie Wilson]

To let her. And lice.

[Susan Powder]

Loved dancing. Loved dancing.

[Jeff Lewis]

So explain. Okay, so back up for a second. So you were 130po overweight.

[Susan Powder]

Yes, I was.

[Jeff Lewis]

Okay, so you had these two babies. Your prince leaves. You're £130 miserable.

[Susan Powder]

I was. Listen, you can talk. We can talk for a hundred years and we will. That's great body. You could do whatever you want. You can look any way you want. I'm talking about me. I hated not having energy and strength. I hated being tired all the time. I did not like the way my body looked. I didn't feel comfortable in clothing. And I had, I was like, how the. I had two babies. They were like 2 and 3 or what? How in God's name am I gonna lose this weight? It was such a big. It was just. I didn't know how I was gonna do it.

[Jeff Lewis]

Now. You didn't have money for a babysitter. You didn't have money for a trainer. You didn't have money for the gym. How did you lose the weight?

[Susan Powder]

Quite simply, I put both my babies in front of a tree in the front yard. And I literally walked back and forth Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Look. Come on, get a little toy. And I did it. No, I walked back and forth with them with a radius of like this, not even a half a block. And they would crawl and I go, sit here. I did it every day, seven days a week. For every day I walked 35 minutes in oxygen. And then I dramatically changed what I put in my mouth because I educated myself.

[Jeff Lewis]

When you say in oxygen. So you built up a sweat like you were walking quickly.

[Susan Powder]

No, that's not what it means. Okay, what does it mean in oxygen? Means you are not out of breath. You are not huffing and puffing. You are not feeling like you're going to die. That's my style.

[Carnie Wilson]

I like that.

[Susan Powder]

Well, no, but everybody has to do it within their fitness level. It's not just if somebody's unfit or Shane is. Whatever hasn't worked out in 10 years. He has dragged me. But you know what, you look really good. And you look good in drag too, kid.

[Carnie Wilson]

He's gorgeous.

[Susan Powder]

He's so cute. So, and my point is, I learned how to be in oxygen and begin to burn body fat. And I just back and forth, back and forth. And I immediately felt the results of fitness because I've always said my whole life, fitness is immediate. You're not going to drop £50 in a week. That's not the way to drop body fat. But immediately you go, two days later, holy shit, I got a little more energy. I got it.

[Carnie Wilson]

Yeah, the energy.

[Susan Powder]

No, no. And I'm like, I feel strong. I used to be really tired when I did that. That is an immediate result of fitness, everyone. Immediate result of fitness. So I, and I read and read and read about food, poisons, pesticides, pummeling. And I was like, I'm not gonna. I never fed my kids any. We never ever drove through a drive through in 1982 and I had a, I had a baby at 40. I adopted a baby at 40 quite deliberately and. Cause I had older sons and my youngest son was 2 years old in the car seat. I hope McDonald's doesn't sponsor you to this. Anyway, we would drive past fast food restaurants and he would say, they are the patriarchal murderers of the world. That's what my 2 year old was saying.

[Carnie Wilson]

Well, you know, my daughters have never had a fry from McDonald's. They've never had a French fry. Nope. And I, yeah, I had one on Sunday.

[Susan Powder]

Listen, and that's good because you're an adult, you can do what you want. But I was not gonna poison my kids. And more than that. And I didn't know fitness. No, nothing. I don't have a degree. I wasn't thinking. I'm gonna write books. I'm gonna be a fitness person one day. That never crossed my mind, ever. I didn't want to be a victim. And I can tell you the most revolutionary thing any human being can do. I've said it for 40 years. It's internal wellness. It's the biggest screw you to all the companies, to all the colorings and pesticides. It's like, I'm just not gonna buy your crap. And guess who the most powerful consumer market in the world is? The women roaming the grocery store aisles. You control everything, ladies. You just need to act like it. You need to get a little pissed off, and you need to put their stuff down because you don't want them poisoning you. Forget your kids. Okay, so now you.

[Jeff Lewis]

Now. So you're dancing, you're raising these kids, you're making a good living. I think you.

[Susan Powder]

I made really good money.

[Jeff Lewis]

Yeah. And this was in the 80s. You were making like a thousand a week, you said, right?

[Susan Powder]

No, that was from the sugar daddy.

[Jeff Lewis]

Oh, the sugar daddy.

[Susan Powder]

No, I had no, we'll get there.

[Carnie Wilson]

Oh, yeah, that's next.

[Susan Powder]

Yeah. So I was. I was making super good money at the club. Really good money.

[Jeff Lewis]

Yeah.

[Susan Powder]

And I loved it. I had a great time.

[Jeff Lewis]

Bernadette was doing well.

[Susan Powder]

No, no. And I had fun. I loved the managers. I loved the girls. I loved the back room. I have so many stories. You don't understand. The pesticide guy came into the dressing room. If you've never been to a dressing room in a strip club, you need to go. You need to do a show from there.

[Jeff Lewis]

I'm down.

[Susan Powder]

It is so good. I love the camaraderie. I loved the girls. I loved them. I was proud of them. Some would come in beaten to a pulp. And I mean it. They would. Oh, what, are you kidding me? And they'd be dancing on stage, like. And I mean, the stories in strip clubs. I want to do a movie about it. Not the point. The pesticide guy would come in. Everybody's, like, naked and doing. And punk.

[Carnie Wilson]

What do you mean?

[Susan Powder]

The pesticide guy, he was spraying for roaches in the back of the strip. He was like this. Holy God, look at her. There was 100 naked women.

[Carnie Wilson]

Was this New York?

[Susan Powder]

No, Dallas.

[Carnie Wilson]

Oh, Dallas, right?

[Susan Powder]

Oh, it was even worse. No, Dallas, Texas, honey. I wish. It was like, these men would come in, dropping things off or doing the regular things you do. And there's just a million naked women. I loved the girls, I loved the club and I loved dancing.

[Jeff Lewis]

Tell us about the sugar daddy.

[Susan Powder]

Oh, simple. No, no, simple, simple. Because I'm in the club and there's a group of. I can remember it to this day. Walked down on the first stage, right hand side of the stage was a group of very. It was a very fancy club in Dallas, Texas. A lot of wealth, 80s, lot of wealth. And we all knew the numbers and the money people and strippers know. So I came down the first stage and I was a group of thing. And I got hundreds on the first stage, did two dances, went over to the hundreds, hundred. Made more money in that round of four stages than I'd ever made. It was like 1500 or 16 for the first dance. Not bad.

[Jeff Lewis]

Wow.

[Susan Powder]

I went down to the table very politely and I sat and introduced myself. Hi, I'm Susan. I'm in Berdette. Good to meet you. I thanked him very much. I went back to the dressing room. Didn't come out all night. Classy, classy.

[Jeff Lewis]

Really classy.

[Susan Powder]

He came back every night for the next five nights and he said, do you want to go to Mexico with me? And I said, yeah, okay, let's go. What? Wow. And the only person that ever knew I was dancing back in the day was my father. Because I called him about that trip and I said, dad, I want you to know I'm dancing at the Million Dollar Saloon in Dalla on Greenville Avenue. And I'm going on a trip with this guy who's asked me to. And I think he's safe. We didn't have Internet then.

[Carnie Wilson]

What did he think about you being the dancer?

[Susan Powder]

Oh, he didn't judge it at all.

[Carnie Wilson]

He was.

[Susan Powder]

He was proud that I came back.

[Carnie Wilson]

He was very supportive of you.

[Susan Powder]

He was, he's was.

[Jeff Lewis]

He was married, right?

[Susan Powder]

He liked me. Oh, he was married to my mother. And then, then the woman who married him, the secretary, came. We don't talk about her. You know why I can't say it? Because then everyone will look her up. We don't talk about her. We just talk. All I talk about, all I say about her is, she's the woman who married my father. No, no.

[Jeff Lewis]

What about the secretary? The sugar daddy, Was he married?

[Susan Powder]

Oh, the sugar daddy was married. Yeah. They were separated and all, but yes, they were married. And guess what? His wife lived down the street from my mother in a very fancy neighborhood. And there's a whole thing because then there was a trainer In Dallas, years later, when Stop the Insanity came up, and he was her trainer, and he was mad that I got famous. And he said to me, you're a whore or something. I said, what are you talking about? You're sleep with his wife? Like it was a whole thing. But no. Yeah, he was.

[Jeff Lewis]

How long were you Sugar daddy?

[Susan Powder]

It's not my problem. Oh, we still. We talked. When I got stopped, the insanity got really big. I bumped into him in Dallas once, and he. In a parking lot, and he said, thank you so much for being respectful and protecting me, because I never, you know, that really happened to me. And I'm allowed to tell my stories, but I would never disrespect someone and whatever. And I like him. And I saw him years later, my son, years later, in New Mexico. He came in and he was like, hey, you want to get together? I was like, I mean, not sexually. We didn't. Because I'm a lesbian. He didn't. Whatever. We didn't get together.

[Jeff Lewis]

She came out as a lesbian. 2004, do you think.

[Susan Powder]

Was it 2004 that I'm a lesbian?

[Jeff Lewis]

I think so.

[Susan Powder]

I think that's when you were finally Jeff Lewis.

[Carnie Wilson]

I wonder, when you were dancing, did that start. Did that start those feelings for you, for women?

[Susan Powder]

No. No. I've all. I mean, I've always been really open sexually. Like, when I was really. I mean, I didn't. You know, I was really young, and I've had menagerie, you know, in New York City, everyone was sleeping with everyone. We had women. We had men. I was studio. We all did it.

[Jeff Lewis]

Carney's a famous daikon.

[Carnie Wilson]

Oh, Christ.

[Susan Powder]

Are you a lesbian?

[Carnie Wilson]

No. Oh, no.

[Jeff Lewis]

But lesbians love her.

[Susan Powder]

Oh, well, I love you, so.

[Jeff Lewis]

Yeah, lesbians really love her.

[Susan Powder]

Okay. Carney Wilson.

[Carnie Wilson]

I attract all gay people.

[Jeff Lewis]

Love that she has lesbian contractors.

[Susan Powder]

Yes, well, of course you should. Who would ever hire?

[Jeff Lewis]

I agree.

[Susan Powder]

Yeah, of course you would hire. I mean, they're women.

[Carnie Wilson]

They're girl contractors. How awesome. Girl flip, baby.

[Susan Powder]

Well, and they're gonna do a better job. And they're. I mean, attention to detail.

[Carnie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Susan Powder]

And women.

[Carnie Wilson]

No.

[Susan Powder]

And in answer to your question, I have always loved women's. I'm not even talking sexually. I mean, let's get past that. I adore women. I adore women. Like, I just love women. I love their energy. And I mean, men are okay. I got three sons. They're okay. They're okay, but they get a little boring.

[Carnie Wilson]

You're a proponent. You've been through stuff. So you.

[Susan Powder]

You know, I became a lesbian. I never wasn't a lesbian. I mean, I was a heterosexual woman and I was married twice. Was I married twice?

[Jeff Lewis]

Twice.

[Susan Powder]

Thank you, Jeff Lewis.

[Jeff Lewis]

You're welcome.

[Susan Powder]

And I was married actually technically three times because I had a female. I will never mention her name because I'll never give her that much credit. But I loved her dearly and I was essentially married to her. It was a real, you know, intense relationship. But in answer to your question, my love for women has always been just the respect. Just the respect and the stuff what we're up against.

[Carnie Wilson]

Come on.

[Susan Powder]

I'll fight for a woman any day before. I'll fight for a man any day.

[Carnie Wilson]

Can I ask you a question? Can I ask her a question? What made you think of Stop the insanity? What was the insanity?

[Susan Powder]

Thank you very much for asking that. You're the only person in any interview who has ever asked that.

[Jeff Lewis]

I wouldn't have asked that.

[Susan Powder]

No, no, that is the.

[Carnie Wilson]

I know you wouldn't. Wait, but Susan, for real, like, what was the insanity?

[Susan Powder]

Well, number one, the reason that's such a good question, Carney, is because they were my words. I came up with I didn't slogan, I didn't plan like what would be a really good slogan. No. And nobody allowed the question that you are asking. When I said stop the insanity back in the day, my follow up statement was what insanity would you like to talk about? It was never just about fitness. It was about motherhood. It was about baby food. It was about Pampers versus cotton diapers. It was about the demineralization of the soil. It was about Monsanto. I have been thinking this way since Greenpeace was invented. People like, it was which, what insanity would you like to talk about?

[Carnie Wilson]

Right.

[Susan Powder]

It was never, you know, reduced to fit, not reduction because fitness is very, very important to me. No, I came up with that and I didn't plan it well when I.

[Carnie Wilson]

Was up at 4 in the morning because I've had big insomnia lately.

[Susan Powder]

Oh, that's thinking about.

[Carnie Wilson]

I was thinking about talking to you today and I was thinking about when that slogan or the title Stop the insanity and the definition of insanity is like you, you try things over and over and you get the same results, right? So I'm thinking about the internal insanity that I think that you were feeling because I was like, this is not really about diet. It's more of the wellness of you inside you as a person, 100%. So when you say which insanity and.

[Susan Powder]

It'S acknowledging the truth of women, I Know, I was with kids and I literally said they would come to me when the ex husband and they would say, well, you know, he' he's running a business. And I was like, what the hell do you think I'm doing?

[Carnie Wilson]

Right?

[Susan Powder]

Like what? I knew inequality. Innately. Innately I knew inequality. And it pissed me off. Jeff Lewis and I rallied. I wasn't talking about. I rally against everything.

[Jeff Lewis]

Can you connect the dots for me? Like, how did you get then from. You're dancing, you're raising these kids, you got a sugar daddy. Then how do we become come like one of the biggest. Here's what I did people in the world.

[Susan Powder]

And it was a. Nothing was planned. Nothing in my life has ever been planned. And that's unfortunate. I suppose on some levels it's fine. I was dancing. I had to stop dancing. I would have continued dancing because I was on a stage for a stage and one of the. Some idiot poured beer on the stage, thought it would be funny. And I did. I was in 6 inch high heels and I did a complete flip, but I hung onto my wig. That was amazing. I did a complete flip, hung onto my. Bernadette. Don't mess around with Bernadette's wig. And you know, in high heels, your feet are like this. I landed on all. And I broke all five bones. All five bones. Okay. So I went to the hospital that night with all five bones sticking out, fractures, the whole thing. Surgery. And the guy's clicking in, clicking in. What do you do for a living? I said, I'm a dancer. He said, not anymore, honey. Oh, God.

[Jeff Lewis]

That was it. You're retired.

[Carnie Wilson]

And that was it.

[Susan Powder]

Yeah. And I stopped dancing. I started teaching aerobics in clubs in Dallas like a normal. Go get a job. My classes were packed. Everyone loved them. But I got fired from every job. Premier Club, by the way. Premier Club. Mistake. Yeah, they fired me. Why?

[Carnie Wilson]

Why do they fire you?

[Susan Powder]

Here's what she said. First of all, the aerobics was. Aerobics was taken very seriously in the 80s and 90s. It was like, you know, where's your certification? Are you AFA certified? And I was nothing. I was just a crazy. I was just teaching. And my classes were packed. 80 people a class. And they called me into the office and they said, you know, we're gonna be firing you. And she said, you just tell too much. You just. You just tell them too much. They just want, you know, whoa, come on, jump and do you just. And I said, my classes are packed.

[Jeff Lewis]

Yeah.

[Susan Powder]

By the way, my sugar daddy Was a member of the club because it was a very expensive club. So he was a member. He went to talk to them, Let me tell you that. But anyway, I got fired from every. Every place I was. So there was a studio in Dallas, because Dallas is a bit. Was a big aerobics market. Huge. You don't even. New York, L.A. and Dallas, people don't know. That was huge. And there was a studio that had failed, that was already facilitated. You know, mirror ballet bars. Who gives a crap? One room reception. And I went to the landlord and I talked my way in. I had no money. And he said, why would I have you open another studio? I said, just, you're not. You don't. What I said to him was, you don't have to renovate it to be a dress shop. Just give me the mirrors and let me go. And I started a crazy studio with no chance in hell of succeeding, Became very popular because the women in Dallas, who did not mess around when they talked and said, there's a teacher. You don't even know what she's doing. I had the loudest music, the craziest music. I don't teach. I mean, it's not mellow. It's intense and fabulous and all fitness levels. I didn't give a crap. You were in the front row. I would modify for you. I'll tell you how to do it. There was no. Only fit people. As a matter of fact, I didn't like the fit people that much. I really liked people who had never stepped into a studio before. And it became really popular. Local press, little bit. Dallas Morning News, who cares? And then the home show called. That was the biggest change. The home show called and said, would you come on as a guest? And I went on. Before I went on, I had never done tv. Flew out alone in the green room, you all know, came in. I saw the sets. They were moving the cameras from set to set. They were doing all that stuff. Literally, before I sat down, Gary Collins sat. Sarah Purcell sat. The camera was coming around. He said, what the hell is this? And he pointed to me. What? Rude as hell.

[Jeff Lewis]

Which one?

[Susan Powder]

Gary Collins said that.

[Carnie Wilson]

Really?

[Susan Powder]

Before the. He said, what the hell is this?

[Jeff Lewis]

So nice on tv.

[Susan Powder]

Oh, he was horrifying.

[Carnie Wilson]

That's kind of shocking.

[Susan Powder]

No, I did not. No, because then I. No, but Jeff. Then I became a family member, so I know Gary well. But anyway, so they had. I left. No. Well, here's what I did. I literally broke every rule in morning television. It was the Last live show. 3 hour. Damn show on ABC. Live audience, live audience. Carney Wilson, literally. Gary asked me one question. I looked. I just ignored him. I looked into the. Into the camera and I said, listen, here's what you can do. You can modify any fitness level. I'm telling you, you really can. You don't have to be fit to get fit. What you have to do is know the fitness industry is screw. And I just talked. I didn't own anything. Sarah said a thing. And he left. And I. And as I was walking out, I'd never expected to be invited back. I didn't do it for that. Never. The ratings went through. Women did it. Women. They did not. ABC didn't do that. Women. And so they thought it was a flu. So we get a phone call. Can we have her back? They booked me the week before Thanksgiving when. Let me just explain to everyone, Nobody gives a crap about fitness the week before Thanksgiving. So they thought, there's no way writing's higher. Then I get a phone call. We'd like you to become. Come to the office. We'd like you to become a member of the Home show family. And my response to him was as what? The relative. You're not willing to fess up to nothing. Jeff. Not a laugh, not a nothing. Fell flat. Total flat. And he was like, okay, are you gonna join the family? So I became a home show family member, worked there for a year.

[Jeff Lewis]

And then your career takes off.

[Susan Powder]

Took off. And not just that. The home show. Two segments. You know, Simon and Schuster called. Time Warner called. I didn't go to them. And we went and had meetings, meetings, meetings, meetings. And nobody thought it was gonna be a hit. Nobody. I never thought I was gonna have a New York Times. I've never written a term paper, let alone a bloody book. I didn't. I just wrote the truth. I wrote the truth. And women went. They normal. I'm holding my fist up in the air like a revolutionary patriot. That's what I'm doing. People holding my. That's it.

[Carnie Wilson]

But you wrote your truth.

[Susan Powder]

Yes. No, I wrote for a lot of women.

[Carnie Wilson]

But that's what I mean. It turns out that a lot of women have truth.

[Susan Powder]

And not just women, by the way. Men, boys, girls, young. If you live in a human body.

[Jeff Lewis]

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[Susan Powder]

Stop the insanity generated $276 million in the first year. I was the only revenue generator of Stop the Insanity. It was huge. And it was, as everybody knows, I was actually going home and to the baseball games and basketball I was running. I was raising my children also. I wasn't just running like a racehorse. But it was intense then and I had it. We had a thing where there was a corporation and basically there was a whole thing there because I wanted to move on and it was a big lawsuit and blah blah blah. It was 50. 50, 50 50. That's great.

[Jeff Lewis]

Wait, who is managing your career?

[Susan Powder]

I had one manager.

[Jeff Lewis]

And didn't you have like a, like a string of attorneys as well?

[Susan Powder]

I had like 14 attorneys at 600. My last legal bill, as a matter of fact that I heard years ago was six and a half million dollars. Oh yeah, that was my last legal and I had no, listen, first of all, I would like to say this. I am not in any way saying I did not take. I do not take full responsibility for the fact that I never checked on all the attorneys, I never checked on the managers, I never checked on the agents. Not because I'm a woman who can't handle money, which has been assumed. It's because I was working like a racehorse, raising my family and trusted people who were being paid a lot of money to do their job. So I. And I should have checked it. My fault 100%, right. What I found out was that I had a company that was being managed. Everything was being managed. Contracts were being signed, deals were being made. That's great. And I would just show up and do the work and do a good job and do it respectfully and well for the clients. What I found out was that it was 50. 50 being taken by a manager. 50% was being taken by a manager. And out of my 50%, everything was being paid out of that, the attorneys.

[Jeff Lewis]

The expenses, everything was coming out.

[Susan Powder]

Plaza Hotel when we go to meet with Simon and Schuster. The airfare, the this, the that.

[Carnie Wilson]

The manager takes 50%. I've never even heard of that.

[Susan Powder]

Well, and I wish I would have.

[Carnie Wilson]

Been your friend back then.

[Susan Powder]

Thank you very much. I wish I had a friend like you back then. However, that didn't bother me. Here's what bothered me. And ended the whole damn thing. And it ended it in five minutes with one email. And I never went back. I blew it up. I blew it up. I was in a meeting and there was a bunch of men and figuring out production thing. And my manager and I were there. And one of the men said, you know, I think one of your other clients could help us figure this out. And I literally looked at her. She knew immediately that I knew she'd been lying to me. And what I care about is don't lie to me. Oh, that's when you're getting 50.

[Jeff Lewis]

Oh. You were under the impression that you were her only client?

[Susan Powder]

No, no, we just tell. Like, tell me you get how many other clients you have. You getting money from them. Is it 50? What, like you don't lie to me.

[Carnie Wilson]

Right?

[Jeff Lewis]

Yeah.

[Susan Powder]

We walked downstairs, Avenue of the Stars in the Plaza right there. And I said, do you have other clients? She didn't even answer. I turned around, I went home, Wilshire Boulevard, lived in Beverly Hills, sent an email to Simon and Schuster, Time Warner, my literary agent at the time, all of my lawyers, everyone. I won't say the name of the company, but I said, blah, blah, blah. No longer represent Susan Powder or stop the insanity end. Never spoke her name for six years, did not speak her name. Moved from LA to Seattle immediately with my new little baby, one year old baby.

[Jeff Lewis]

But wait, what? So you. You blew the whole thing up?

[Susan Powder]

I blew the whole thing up.

[Jeff Lewis]

All because you felt betrayed by your manager?

[Susan Powder]

It. No, it's not that simple. No, because it was a love affair, not sexual. It was two women from Dallas fighting the fight. We were making it in Time Warner.

[Carnie Wilson]

We were building together.

[Susan Powder]

It was our thing. We were beating the system. Betrayal that I have never felt.

[Carnie Wilson]

What a letdown.

[Susan Powder]

Well, and I'm.

[Carnie Wilson]

Disappointment.

[Susan Powder]

I'll do whatever I'll give you, but when I'm done, oh, Sister Sledge, I am. So I was done. But it. I mean, it's not a light thing to say, and I say it respectfully. I'm not a fool. They were like, what happened? What happened? What happened? Where'd she go? I literally moved to Seattle and started teaching aerobics classes in an elementary school basement to a private group of women who were fabulous. Had my little baby, one year old baby. Had a baby after 17 years, my baby. No husband involved? No, nothing involved. I was raising my baby, teaching organic cooking classes in my kitchen. I was super famous then. I didn't even realize people were like, in my kitchen, like, what the shit is going on? I was just doing what I do. I went back to my roots. I went back to what started Stuff the Insanity.

[Jeff Lewis]

Why didn't you work with Simon and Schuster directly? Why didn't you work with.

[Susan Powder]

Oh, I did.

[Jeff Lewis]

No, no.

[Susan Powder]

I was on the phone with Carolyn Reedy, who was the CEO forever. Carolyn is. Well, she. She's dead, you know. God rest her soul. Seriously, I loved her so much. Carolyn Reedy called me when I was in Seattle. First of all, my ex husband, the second one was suing me for some alimony or something. So she was like, we can't publish the next book because I had a book I wanted to do. Carolyn called me personally. Here were her words. She said, susan, do you know the last check we sent and to whom we sent it? I said, I do not. Carolyn. She said, I suspected as much. It was a million dollars. It was sent to my manager, never saw the money.

[Jeff Lewis]

Oh, did you ever sue the manager?

[Susan Powder]

No, I never spoke her name. Still don't. Will not. Oh, it's in the book.

[Jeff Lewis]

Yes.

[Susan Powder]

It's all over the book, kid. The whole thing is in the book.

[Jeff Lewis]

And that. I. I did want to mention that. So you have a brand new book. It's called and Then M died. Stop the insanity. M Memoir. What does that mean? And then M died.

[Susan Powder]

MJ M is my dead dog, okay? She died. And the reason I. My book is an open letter. It starts with Dear M. It's an open letter to my dead dog. And it turned into a memoir. I did not write. I didn't start out trying to write a memoir. I was just writing down truths because I quite honestly didn't think I was gonna survive it. But after Em died, my life went from. You know, there's not a lot of money. It's been years. I'm fine. I'm like, I'm fine. I don't need to fancy schmancy, nothing. It was never poverty, though. Ever poverty. After M died, things got really unbelievable, so I titled it. And then Em died. And then the last 10 years happened. She's been dead forever.

[Jeff Lewis]

Is it true that in 2018, you had moved into an RV in Las Vegas?

[Susan Powder]

Oh, beyond an RV. No, no. I lived in a 1957 camper. It wasn't even an RV. And I loved it in a campground on Boulder highway, which is one of the most dangerous neighborhoods. That's not the worst of it, Jeffrey Lewis. Not at all. When I had my little pod, I called it Em and I lived in the pod. I was happy as can. I wrote about the koa I loved it. The bill, the maintenance guy loved it. It was like my little. I was fine. Em died, which was totally unexpected and very hard. And I got kicked out of KOA because all campers that weren't 10 years old, they kicked them out. Corporate upgraded. And it really hurt me. It really hurt me. It was a really hard moment. And then Em died. And four days later, I had no place to be. I had no place to live. And I had worked on the Strip for a long time as one of the most obnoxious people. You know what I did?

[Jeff Lewis]

What? Handed out those cards like strip club timeshare.

[Susan Powder]

Oh, no. Worse than strip clubs. No. And I was a stopper for. And I work with the craziest characters. You should hear my stories from the Strip. Anyway, nobody knew who I was until Elvis swear. Elvis in his scooter with his beer can. Every day. You know him. He's there every day on the Strip, as drunk as only a drunk can do. He said, hey, you remind me of that woman. That woman that crazy. Remember her? And I was like, oh, shit. And I, like, went home, like, oh, God. Nobody knew. Nobody knew any. Well, one Anthony did. He was very respectful. But I worked and worked and worked, and then I had no place to go. And a lot of the people that I'd worked with on the Strip stayed in a. It's a. It's Harbor Island. It's a horrible place. And it's a welfare. It's horrible. It's horrible. I've never been in a place like that. And it was the only place I had to go.

[Jeff Lewis]

You lost everything.

[Susan Powder]

I have no credit score at all.

[Jeff Lewis]

Last you were a multi millionaire.

[Susan Powder]

I don't want to say this because I don't need pathetic. I don't need pathetic. I don't want.

[Jeff Lewis]

No, no, no.

[Susan Powder]

But I just want to say no, not that you are. On Thursday before I came here, I work Uber Eats. We haven't broken that new I work Uber. Guess who's delivering your food people. Me.

[Jeff Lewis]

Susan Powder.

[Susan Powder]

I work Uber Eats and I've worked it for nine years, so don't tell me about hard work. I know this Thursday before I came here, I had $12. After I paid my car pay payment. 260 for that stupid insurance, by the way. Progressive. Get a grip. Like, this is ridiculous. I cannot. But Anyway, I had $12 in my bank account to come here.

[Jeff Lewis]

I was.

[Susan Powder]

That's the truth. And I'm fine with that.

[Carnie Wilson]

You know what?

[Susan Powder]

I'm fine with that.

[Carnie Wilson]

I don't think money has ever mattered to you. I don't think it's never been a motivation for you.

[Susan Powder]

I don't think it's not a motivation.

[Carnie Wilson]

I don't want to speak for you, boy.

[Susan Powder]

Because it's scary when there's not $20.

[Carnie Wilson]

I am saying she can.

[Susan Powder]

It's okay. Okay.

[Jeff Lewis]

Thanks for listening. If you want more of this, listen to Jeff Lewis live every weekday on SiriusXM as well as the Jeff Lewis Channel, exclusively on the SiriusXM app. High Five Casino is the top choice for social casino gaming that's free to play. With chances to win and redeem for real cash prizes, free spin rewards and tons of exclusive games, you can experience more high five moments than ever before. You're going to want to high five everyone. The neighbors, the mailman, all your co workers, of course your friends. Well, you get the point. Your high five Moment [e-mail] no purchase necessary. Voidware prohibited by law. Must be 21 years older. Terms and conditions apply.