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Jesus People Podcast
Episode 24: The Jesus People Podcast | Ex-SEAL Garrett Unkelbach: Resilient Faith, Transformation & Purpose
01:11:43
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- [00:00]
Garrett Uncle Bock
My boat crew starts talking, and they're saying, hey, do you think you'll make it through training? Do you make. You think you'll make it through hell week? And I said, I don't think I'll make it. I know I'll make it.
- [00:25]
Ryan
What's up, guys? Welcome to the Jesus People Podcast. Stoked to have Garrett Uncle Bock with us today. Garrett, thanks for coming on the pod, man.
- [00:31]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Oh, thank you so much for having me. Looking forward to this conversation.
- [00:34]
Ryan
Yeah, man, me too. So Garrett was introduced to me by a Navy SEAL friend in San Diego, and he just sent me your Instagram. He was like. I think he knew I was moving to Dallas, and he's like, you got to connect with this guy Garrett. And this guy, he kind of gave me the inside scoop of the SEAL teams. Like, there would be, you know, certain, like, famous Navy seals that I would.
- [00:52]
Garrett Uncle Bock
You know, there's guys that everybody's heard of.
- [00:54]
Ryan
Right, right. Like, certain dudes. And he would just, like, kind of, like, you know, open the hood for me and be like, hey, that guy, he was actually, like, a horrible operator. Like, he wasn't good at his job, and he wasn't respected by everyone, but when he talked about you, he was like, that guy's legit. Everyone respected him. He's dialed, and he loves Jesus. You're gonna love. He was, like, just becoming a Christian, he's like, you're gonna love him, dude. He's a really strong Christian, just like you. So, anyway, it's good to. To be able to get to know you now and get to hang.
- [01:21]
Garrett Uncle Bock
I'm honored. And it is a tight community. You know, one of the things I learned there. I'm very fortunate, Ryan, in the way that I grew up. I grew up in a strong Christian home. I grew up with two, like, wonderful, amazing parents who loved me, well led, well, have given me a model and example for life. And that's a lot different than, I would say most of the people in the SEAL community. A lot of people. I mean, it was. You would. You would see this, like, at my graduation, and my parents were there, a couple of my friends were there, and most guys, if their dad was there, it was like a stern look in the eye and a handshake and I told you so versus with my parents, it's very different. You know, my parents were there, they love me, they celebrate me. And I say all that to say I came in. In what I would. What I would call very privileged. And I'm not. Some people would be afraid to say that I would. I would tell you I'm not at all. Luke 12:48 says, to whom much is given, much is required. And so I didn't go there like trying to prove my father wrong. More so I went with a strong identity from my father. And so I say all of that to say we can talk about my upbringing if you want to jump into that. But I was saying all that to say I grew up in a great Christian home, learned a lot of fantastic things about leadership, about the Word, and then I got to go into the crucible of the SEAL teams and really test out like, okay, I've been given a great operating system for life. Let's see how it works in the fires of combat. And one of the things that I'm connecting back to, that introduction, which I'm honored by, it's a tight. One of the things that the SEAL community does is they expose you to who you really are.
- [02:57]
Ryan
Right?
- [02:57]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Every man's asking himself the same question. And that question is, am I who I think that I am?
- [03:03]
Ryan
Right?
- [03:03]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Right, people, that's what you want to know. It's what every man wants to know about himself. You think something of yourself, but you want to know, is it true? And the SEAL training program in the community really kind of forces you in front of the mirror and peels your eyelids back and you either are or you aren't who you think that you are. And really the, the currency in the SEAL teams is reputation. So I'm honored that anybody else that I had the opportunity to work with would speak highly of me. But all that comes to for then this is what I was getting at is the reputation side of it. I learned some interesting things in the SEAL teams by taking what I grew up with and adding it into that community. You'll appreciate this, Ryan, because it's stuff that you and I get the privilege of talking about all the time. First time I was getting corrected in the Navy, so I'm just fast forward a little bit and we can jump back to training. But first time I'm getting corrected. I'm standing in front of my chief at SEAL Team 3. I've been doing a good job, and then I'm getting corrected. And I said something that anybody who grew up in church or around church, this is like Christianese language. This is things that Christians say, I'm getting corrected. And I say to my chief, I'm sorry, it wasn't in my heart for that to happen. And I won't say exactly what my chief said to me.
- [04:16]
Ryan
But we can. But.
- [04:17]
Garrett Uncle Bock
But his response was, what the F are you talking about? Yeah, right. Like, he did not. That didn't compute for him. Yeah, right. Like, what do you mean it wasn't in your heart? And what's interesting was that revealed to me, I would say, one of the flaws in my. Not my theology and my philosophy and those things go together. Theology is my understanding of God. Philosophy is my way of living. And just like Romans 12 talks about, God wants to change our thinking, God wants to change the way that I think. And so I had some broke philosophy, and then I had grown up in a place where it was like, you know what? We know you have a good heart, and that's okay. And the seal teams, I said, that's not okay. And what does the Bible say about. You know, it says that the Lord knows the man's heart.
- [04:57]
Ryan
Right.
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Garrett Uncle Bock
But it says that a man knows another man by his fruit.
- [05:00]
Ryan
Right? Right.
- [05:00]
Garrett Uncle Bock
And so that forced me to confront myself and realize, like, you know what? Like, maybe what my parents said was true, and it's not that my parents gave me bad philosophy, but maybe, like, what church talks about, maybe what my parents said is true and what these guys are saying is true, that what. What is in your heart has to come out. And that's exactly what Jesus says. A bad tree does not produce good fruit, and a good tree does not produce bad fruit. And so, like that, Like, I can tell you that experience for me, where my chief said that to me, where I said, like, it's not. I'm sorry, it wasn't in my heart for that to happen. That answer had been accepted in my life until that point. And then he said that to me, and it sent me down a road of trying to, in the best way, reconcile my theology and my philosophy into how did all the great things that I've been taught, how do I turn that into being a great operator?
- [05:47]
Ryan
Right? Right, Dude.
- [05:50]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah.
- [05:50]
Ryan
I. I think for so long, I have been scared of my own intentions, right. And like, oh, I'm doing this thing, but part of me wants it for glory, you know, even with social media. Right?
- [06:00]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Sure.
- [06:01]
Ryan
It's like I come back to a quote that Billy Graham's wife said. She says, I've never had a selfless thought in my life. And I'm like, I resonate with that so much because if I do something nice for my wife, there's part of me that's like, I want recognition. I put it on a post on media, on social media. I want to be seen by people And I think it comes back to like. Like, we will never know the depths of our sinfulness, but God doesn't necessarily care as much about our intentions. He cares about the fruit.
- [06:27]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Right?
- [06:28]
Ryan
Because out of the. The good heart will come good fruit.
- [06:31]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Right?
- [06:31]
Ryan
And so I think for so many people, they're like, well, I don't feel like reading my Bible, so I don't do it.
- [06:35]
Garrett Uncle Bock
I feel like it's a little bit of both in the same way. Like, I was just chatting with my. My co host from, from my podcast about this. It's one of the divine things that God is that we should. That we need to admire and aspire to that both. In many ways, we live in a world that is black and white. We live in a world that is either or. You're either masculine or you're feminine. You're either this or you're red or you're blue. You're this or you're that. God is both love and law. He is both grace and truth. Yeah, right. And so it. And that concept, I'm setting us up to talk about both. And I think in the heart, the intention and the fruit, what God wants from us is both. That's what the Bible says. The Lord knows the heart. Proverbs says that out of the heart flow the issues of life. Jeremiah 17 says the heart is evil, deceitful and wicked. Who can know it? But Ezekiel 36, one of the longest monologues of God, I'll paraphrase that monologue. He says, I will give you a new heart. I'll take out your heart of stone and I'll give you a new heart. And then we have the character David in the Bible, who it says was a man after God's own heart, despite his sinfulness. And so I'm setting up just a few of these things for us to talk about the heart for a second. The heart, it is evil, deceitful and wicked. But God also says that he'll give us a new heart. And I think a lot of men, myself included, have wondered, you know, what is my purpose in life? Where am I supposed to go? What am I supposed to do? And I can tell you, for me, growing up in church, the way I heard about the heart was, the heart's evil, deceitful and wicked. It's just this terrible thing that's inside of you. And I think that's only part of the story. What the heart is and the way that the Bible talks about is that the heart is a desire center. It's a desire Container. And so we are sinful. And so if I'm a sinful person, what's going to be in my desire container? Sinful desires. But the Bible also says that God wants to cleanse me, that God wants to give me a new heart, that God wants to renew me. Christianity is not a behavioral improvement program. God's not trying to clean your dirty. You know, this is like the cheesy youth group message. But God's not trying to clean your dirty white T shirt. He wants to give you a brand new shirt. Yeah. And so I say that to say the heart. It's like God didn't just create this evil thing and put it in us. God gave us a desire center. What he wants most is that we would desire him. And so I think the test and following God and also the thing that's going to lead us into our purpose is part of. There's two things that lead us to our purpose. One of them is what's in our heart. And so if you just stand on the understanding of heart is evil, deceitful and wicked, you'll say, well, how does that work? When you look at Abraham and Isaac, I think this is a fantastic story. God gives Abraham the desire. Like God meets Abram as a nomad and says, hey, I want you to do this and I'm going to make you the father of many nations. I'm going to make your name great. All your descendants will be great. Gives Abraham this great dream and then gives him finally, you know, after a long journey, gets the son. And then what does he do? He tests him with the son. Right. He says, I gave you this dream, now I want you to put it on the altar.
- [09:41]
Ryan
Right.
- [09:41]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Didn't actually want Isaac to die, but was testing Abraham's heart and how he felt about Isaac. Do you love the gift more than the gift giver? Right. And so what God wants for us is, is not that we just. God doesn't want to just take everything away from us. But God does care about that. You care about him the most. It's exactly what Jesus was saying to, to Peter in, in John. I think it's John 21, but it's at the end of John where he says, you know, Simon Peter, do you love me? Yeah. Right. And he says it multiple times. And, and if you go into the. We won't go into that story. But if you go into the Greek, there it was Peter saying, yes, Lord, I love you. And Philo. Yeah. And Jesus is saying, agape love you and really brotherly love. And so really, you're my homie, but.
- [10:22]
Ryan
Like, I'm not going to sacrifice.
- [10:23]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Exactly. And really what Jesus was saying, if you don't love me most, you don't love me at all.
- [10:27]
Ryan
Yeah.
- [10:27]
Garrett Uncle Bock
And that, that is the journey of following God. But anyways, with your heart. The heart is the desire center. And so like you're saying, like, man, I don't know if I've ever had a selfless thought. This is the journey that we all have to go on. It's not a one time thing. This is, you know, what Christians call sanctification, this is what Romans talks about in transformation, is that I got to bring my heart back to God. Because the problem isn't that God renews me. The problem is that I keep making mistakes, that I keep letting the wrong things in. One of the things that I do to start my day every single day, Ryan, is I get up in the morning, I say, God, I want your way and not my way. Renew my heart. Remove from me the wrong things that are in me. Because I want to have a pure heart before the Lord, but I keep letting the wrong things in. And there's a story in the Bible that really resonated with me in my own journey is Joseph's story. And so again, I'm still talking about the heart here. And Joseph's story, when you read it, it just says that Joseph had a dream. Now many. When Jacob had a dream, it's the angel of the Lord appeared. You know, when Isaiah has dreams, the angel of the Lord appears. But if you read Joseph's story in Genesis, it just says Joseph had a dream. It doesn't say God gave him a dream. Doesn't say the angel of the Lord appeared. It says Joseph had a dream. And what was his dream? His dream was that his brothers would bow down to him. Go tell anybody that's your dream. And they will say that you're prideful. They'll say that you're arrogant.
- [11:49]
Ryan
Well, they did, right?
- [11:50]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah. When I was joining the Navy, I went into my recruiter's office, I said, I need you to write me a Navy SEAL contract. And he said, you're the most arrogant kid I've ever talked to. Right. So my recruiter said to me, and like, I didn't know my left from my right. As far as the military. I was 19.
- [12:07]
Ryan
Yeah, dude.
- [12:08]
Garrett Uncle Bock
I just knew this is what I wanted to do. I felt like this is what I was supposed to do. And so with Joseph's story, Joseph has this dream in his heart and he's unafraid of it. And he goes and tells his brothers, and it sends him on the difficult journey that he goes through in his life. But we'll paraphrase Joseph's story or summarize Joseph's story. He goes through 13 years of slavery and struggle, being in prison, then finally stands before the Pharaoh and begins this journey of interpreting Pharaoh's dream, which allowed Egypt to prosper in a difficult time, but also fulfills his dream. His brothers have to come and they bow down before him, right? So that they don't starve to death. But Joseph's purpose in his life, right? And this is a key connection with the heart. Joseph's purpose was not for his brothers to bow down to him. His dream was that his brothers would bow down to him. Joseph's purpose for his life was to save all of Israel from starvation and famine. That was the purpose of Joseph's life. God used him to bring all of Israel into Egypt. And God had his purpose for why he wanted Israel in Egypt, for them to grow and to thrive. And even Joseph said, like, Israelites are coming into Egypt, but one day we'll leave. It was God's plan that Israel would be in Egypt and that they wouldn't die in starvation. Because without if Joseph hadn't interpreted Pharaoh's dream and if Egypt had not supplied, all of Israel would have. They were in the same famine. They would have all starved and died. That was the purpose of Joseph's life, but that wasn't the dream that he had. And so the connection that I make in that is God puts in each and every one of us, like in. In our heart, a dream. It just says Joseph had a dream. And that's like. That was desire. What was Joseph's desire? His desire was to be a leader. His desire was to be great. But what you have to understand with that is that Joseph had a desire to please the Lord. And so it is both. I believe it's both, Ryan. It's both the fruit and it's the heart. Because think about it this way. You could have, you know, you could have the fruit of, like, great charitable giving, right? Like, I can give millions of dollars to ministry. But if what's in your heart is like, if I do this, people will recognize me, right? I say this all the time. It is the most beautiful thing and it is the scariest thing about who God is. You can't fool him. He knows exactly what's in your heart, right? And so that is a blessing. And it is also a scary thing. You Know, because you can wanna have, you can have big dreams, you can wanna do things like Joseph did. I feel like I've been in that same place in my own life at times where I'm like, man, I feel like this is a God dream. But at the same time people might accuse me of being prideful or arrogant, but at the same time God sees what's in your heart. You need to produce the right fruit, but also the fruit alone. You could go have great charitable giving, but if you're doing it for the wrong reasons, that's not fruit that pleases God.
- [14:52]
Ryan
Right? Right. Yeah. And I want to get into a little bit of the self control conversation because that's something that I think I could glean from you personally. But one thing I've learned is, you know, even like I've got four kids right now and like three full time jobs, so I'm just like exhausted and I'll get home from work and it's very easy for me to check to have the glass of wine and watch the dumb Netflix show and to just like numb and then stay up a little bit later. And then once the alarm goes off at 6:30 to be like, nope, snooze, you know. And so all of those things, what, what I've found is when I actually get up and I actually spend time with the Lord in his presence before anyone wakes up in the house, I've found that I actually enjoy it and it, it moves my desires. So like you're saying like it can start with the heart or it can start with the fruit. It can start with the spiritual disciplines motivates your desires and your actions because we're ultimately motivated by our desires. But sometimes those desires need to be cultivated. It's like the C.S. lewis quote, like that you don't understand what is meant by a holiday at sea. So you keep playing in the mud pies. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like you don't understand how good it is like to walk with Jesus because you've never taken the first step, you never started walking down the path. So one thing I've tried to think about too is like, yes, intentions are, you know, there's a reason why Saul lost the throne. David gained the throne.
- [16:16]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Right.
- [16:16]
Ryan
Because his heart was pure, his heart was right.
- [16:19]
Garrett Uncle Bock
But Saul sinned. Basically his response was, what do I have to do to still be king?
- [16:24]
Ryan
100%. It was power, self motivated.
- [16:26]
Garrett Uncle Bock
When David sinned, and this is like, this is the beautiful thought that crushes me in the right way is when David sinned He didn't say, oh, don't tell the mighty men. He didn't say, like, what do I need to do to still be king? He said, what do I do? That the presence of the Lord wouldn't leave me.
- [16:44]
Ryan
Amen.
- [16:44]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Because he didn't have the blessing that we did of the blood of Christ back then. And many of you know this, but for those of you who don't, back then, not everyone had the blessing of the presence of the Lord. It was a gift. You know, you read about it with Saul and with David, and you'll read the Scripture will say, and the Lord was with him. That was the presence of the Lord with him. Something that we all take for granted, that I get to have every single day.
- [17:08]
Ryan
Well, and even think about Moses. Moses is about to enter into the dream. He's about to enter the promised land. And he's like, if your presence doesn't go with me, I don't want it. This thing we've been longing for, this thing we've been waiting for, we all.
- [17:19]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Take it for granted, right?
- [17:21]
Ryan
And like I have found that the gift is right here in the wilderness. It's with you, Jesus. It's not the Lamborghinis, it's not the mansions, it's not the milk and honey. It's not all those things that could happen. It's in the presence. So my question for you is, when did, when did that get cultivated? Like, were you a young kid when you experienced that?
- [17:41]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah, I would say it's been, it's been stoked and re. Stoked many times. I think. I think men go through levels and levels of transformation. I had the, the great privilege of knowing the Lord at a young age. I mean, I prophesied when I was 12 years old over somebody. And I've seen great miracles and I've seen a lot of works of the Lord and the experience with the Lord in my life. But I would say in growing older, like I went through the military is a tough time, that, a different type of crucible for my faith. And then post Navy, I got out in 2016, post Navy, getting to go on this journey of leading a men's ministry and developing other people. God has renewed my faith in an even stronger way, you know, because faith is right. Like Hebrews 11 says, it's evidence of the things that we don't see, or proof. But I think that what you've got to understand is evidence. Like, understand what evidence is. There's a difference between evidence and rock solid proof. Proof is it's undeniable evidence means there's things that lead to it, there's things that hint to it. I don't need faith today to believe that God is real, but I need faith every day for some of the new things that God is taking me into, for the things that God's leading me into. And some of the best evidence that I have in my life today, that I've experienced personally and that I get to see in other men is the power of transformation. My favorite scripture, one of my. I have many favorites, but one of my favorites is Romans, chapter 12. Paul says, I plead with you. And I know you read scripture the same way, Ryan, but sometimes you just pause on a word and it's like, when's the. You know. Paul says, I'm pleading with you. When's the last time, Ryan, that you begged for something personally or that anybody begged you for something? Right, right. That's not a common occurrence. Paul says, I'm pleading with you. Offer your body as a living sacrifice. This is worship that's holy. And ple God to offer your body as a sacrifice. Paul's not saying he wants you to kill yourself. He's saying, take your flesh, this flesh way of living that we've all experienced. And what Proverbs says will lead to your death, says, take this and put it on the altar. It's worship that's holy and pleasing. And holiness again, another Christian word, not a common English word. Easiest understanding of holiness is to be used rightly, to be used, intended with your design. And so for me, and the way I use it for men is, that's a hammer. When a hammer hits a nail, that's what the hammer was designed to do. If a hammer, that's holiness. When a hammer hits a nail, if a hammer never hits a nail, that's an unholy hammer. It's never been used correctly. And for a man, if a man never divides from his flesh and says, I'm going to stop following my flesh, it is the same as a hammer who's never hit a nail. And I meet all men all the time that are hammers who've never hit a nail. They're empty. They're wondering what, you know. A hammer. If a hammer had never hit a nail before, it'd say, why am I so funky, Shay? Why? Like what? What am I supposed to do with myself? And that's what a man will feel like until he decides, I'm going to stop following my flesh. Which leads into verse 2, Paul, Romans 12. 2 Paul says, don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then and whenever. Whenever. Especially in the New Testament. It's similar in the Old, but almost always in the New Testament, when you see the word then it is an indicator of a pro. Of a process. Most of some of God's promises are gifts. Many of God's promises are processes. If you do this, then this will happen. And the then in Romans 12:2 is one of the great promises. Then you will understand God's will for your life, which is perfect and pleasing. And I've been all over the world, I've served and get to work with some of the smartest people in the world. And I have served with people in the most difficult countries, some of the most forsaken countries in the world. But it doesn't matter. Every type of person I've ever worked with, I know without a shadow of a doubt has wandered just like I have. God, why am I here? God? You don't even have to be a Christian to wander that to wander. Your purpose. Man looks at the stars and wonders, why am I here? It's Ecclesiastes 3:11. God placed attorney in the human heart. Within all of us there's a desire to know this. But Romans 12:2, the promise at the end is that you could know God's will for your life, which is what every man wants to know. What's my purpose? And the process for that is step one. You got to put your flesh on the altar. You got to decide, you know what? I'm not. I'm going to stop living for not that I'm going to be perfect. I'm not going to be sinless. I'll try, but I won't be. That's what and that's the interesting promise of scripture says you don't have to sin, but you will. And that's okay. But the second part is to be transformed, which is the Greek word metamorpho or like the English word metamorphosis. And metamorphosis is when a caterpillar transforms or goes through metamorphosis and becomes a butterfly. A butterfly is not a caterpillar with wings. And that's what many Christian men are. Are. They're a caterpillar with a fake set of wings that they bought pretending to be something that they're not.
- [22:38]
Ryan
Right?
- [22:38]
Garrett Uncle Bock
But when you. If you see a caterpillar and you see a butterfly, you say that there's no way, there's no way that that became that. And it didn't grow into it. It transformed. And the caterpillar, this is. And this is what our life is like, is that I choose. I have to choose to die. The caterpillar puts itself into a cocoon, closes itself up by choice, and it liquefies in there. And then out of that, like a phoenix rises out and becomes something else. And that's what transformation is supposed to be. And Ryan, I've seen that in my own life where not. I'm not perfect, but things in me have died. And I've seen what God has brought out of that. And when I've watched that happen in other men, and I'm just talking, I'm answering your question on, like, what's some of my new faith today? What some of the things that are pushing me today. I've seen transformation in men's lives that I say there's no. There's no amount of personal growth and development. There's no amount of reading, there's no of the gym that could do what has happened in this man's life?
- [23:36]
Ryan
Dude, it's. It's very easy to spot an unprocessed man. There's a reason that David had to wait 15 years as a shepherd before he sent the throne, right? There's a reason Moses. And we skip these parts, right? We're just like, oh, Moses had these crazy events in his life. No, no. He waited for 30 years in Midian processing in the cocoon so that he could go back. And he even told God, I don't want to do it.
- [23:58]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Right?
- [23:58]
Ryan
You. You mentioned earlier he knew he was a leader early on. He knew he was going to ascend. I'm sorry, this was Joseph.
- [24:03]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah.
- [24:03]
Ryan
Joseph knew he was going to be a leader, that he was going to ascend to this, you know, second in command, and his brother's going to bow down to him. And he still had to go through the process. He still had to be, you know, accused falsely of rape, thrown into prison, interprets the guy's dream. The guy ignores him, forgets about him, says he's going to free him. He doesn't. So he's staying in prison this whole time. Oh, and this is after his brothers sold him into slavery, left him in a pit, left for dead. And he goes through this, all this suffering, all this waiting to get him to the place where he could ascend to the second command. Because he had the heart, he can process the metamorphosis. He had changed his thinking. He had been in the mud with the Lord for so long that he got to the point that Moses did where he's like, I just want your presence.
- [24:42]
Garrett Uncle Bock
That's right.
- [24:43]
Ryan
He'd realized that the second command in all of Egypt and the leadership to have his brothers bow down to him, all of that was nothing compared to Jesus. Nothing compared to walking with his Lord day by day. And I think that's what you're saying is, like, you can't fake this. You can't get to a place where you're just, like, fearless, authentically fearless, until you've been in situations of utter despair and hopelessness and had to see Jesus come through.
- [25:12]
Garrett Uncle Bock
That's what Oswald. That's one of the quotes that I love. Oswald Chambers says, when you fear God, you'll fear nothing else.
- [25:18]
Ryan
Amen, dude.
- [25:19]
Garrett Uncle Bock
And I think there are few things as powerful in this world as a fearless man. And, you know, the SEAL community is also a lot of people that many would consider fearless. But I've also watched these men get to their breaking point. The difference is there's different cuts of, you know, this. Ryan being an athlete, there's different cuts of men. And a lot of the guys in the SEAL teams, they are just really tough dudes. These were. And I. It changed my evangelism by being around some of the people that I went. I was in. In the military. Traditional Christianity, evangelism is like, we're going to minister to people in their brokenness. And I'm not talking down to that. But it didn't work on one person in the SEAL teams because I had guys at Seal Team 3 that they had just come back from a deployment of cleaning their friends body parts out of Humvees. They're in the middle of a divorce. They're hiding a drug habit. And if you ask them how they're doing, they would look you in the eye and mean it and say, I'm doing great.
- [26:12]
Ryan
Yeah, right. Because Four Spiritual laws isn't necessarily cutting it there.
- [26:16]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah.
- [26:16]
Ryan
These guys, a booklet you give them, it's not gonna.
- [26:18]
Garrett Uncle Bock
These were tough dudes.
- [26:20]
Ryan
Yeah.
- [26:20]
Garrett Uncle Bock
The only way that I could minister to them, because these are the SEAL training screens for the type of people that will go all the way until their. And so these are not people that I can say, you know, well, I'll just catch them in their brokenness and scoop them up. But the way that I could minister to these people was I'd say, you're missing it. The path that you're on is a lower path. There's more to your life than what you see. And I would talk to them about greatness I would talk to them about. This is what God can do in your life. And men want to be fearless, but it is the dichotomy of scripture. It's the dichotomy of who God is, how he's both, and how Jesus says, those who seek to gain their life will lose it, but only those who are willing to give their life up will gain it. Only by being willing to submit to God can you begin to walk in this power and authority of fearlessness because you're submitted to him. That's where you can go through. That's where you can have. This is what Joseph had. This is what Paul had. This is what anybody that you look at in scripture and say, man, what a tough dude, comes from. James, chapter one. And this is at least my foundation for it. James, chapter one. Consider verse two. Consider it joy when you face struggle, struggles of many kinds, because these tests are an opportunity for your endurance to grow. And when your endurance is complete, you will be mature, lacking nothing. It's the only time in scripture that you are called lacking nothing when your endurance is complete. And it all starts with consider it joy. James isn't saying. He's not saying it is joy because that would be foolishness to say, like, when you're being.
- [27:55]
Ryan
Cancer's great.
- [27:56]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah, yeah. No, he says, consider it.
- [27:58]
Ryan
Yeah.
- [27:59]
Garrett Uncle Bock
And it's the Greek word hegemi. Hegemi. If you go back to the time in which which this was written, was a military word around leadership. Right. It was a word that means.
- [28:10]
Ryan
Sorry, what's the word? This is for endurance?
- [28:12]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Considerate.
- [28:13]
Ryan
Considerate.
- [28:13]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Where it says considerate joy, it's saying, lead your thoughts is what it's saying. Right. So when you go through struggles, you choose Ryan. And this is the superpower that all men have. This is superpower that God's given me, is that I'm going in this direction. And I can say, you know what? I don't want to go in that direction anymore. I'm going to walk in a different direction. God has given us the ability to choose. And in the same way, I can choose how I view my circumstances. And this scripture is saying, consider it joy. Not that it is joy, but consider it. So when you face struggles, you decide, I'm going to see this struggle as an opportunity for my endurance to grow. Endurance is the Greek word hippomone, which means to stand under the weight. Right. This is a very masculine word. And this is my personal view of strength. A lot of men are like, how much can you bench? That's great. Strength to me is not what you can pick up. Strength is what you'll never have to put down. Right? I'm never gonna put down the weight of being a father. I'm never gonna put down the weight of being a husband. Right. A lot of men are like, man, when am I gonna be able to put this down? It's the wrong view of strength. Just like you go to the gym, the weights don't change. I do. Right? What God's doing in me is God's growing me. God's transforming me. He's giving me stuff today that I'm saying, like, God, this is all I can do. And he says, that's okay. Right? What God knows for me, more than I even know for myself, is that I'm gonna continue. If I right heart, if I'll have the right attitude, I'm going to continue to grow, and God will be able to give me more. And then one day I will be mature and complete, lacking nothing. Because that's what I want to hear at the end of my life. And that's what scripture tells us that we can hear is well done, good and faithful servant. And I wouldn't say it's a fear, but it's a great concern for me, Ryan, because scripture talks about two things that we can hear. We can hear, well done, good and faithful servant. And we can hear here, turn away from me and never knew you. Right. I never knew you. And. And by the way, that scripture. Can we. If we can just jump into that for a second.
- [30:13]
Ryan
Well, can we pause?
- [30:14]
Garrett Uncle Bock
I want to.
- [30:14]
Ryan
So. So I want to go back to James, chapter one, and then. And then let's go to that scripture. And then I want to hear. I want to hear stories like. Because what we just unpacked here is repentance. It's heart transformation. It's endurance. It's self control. Like, I'd love to get into some of the stories, both on deployment in buds, in business, maybe give a brief explanation. But going back into James 1, what's so cool, what you just did is you just gave me a word for considerate and endurance. I've always hung on the word testing. So, like, consider it pure joy when you face trials of many kinds. For the testing of your faith produces endurance.
- [30:58]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yes.
- [30:58]
Ryan
That word testing is the same word used to melt down precious metals.
- [31:02]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Right?
- [31:03]
Ryan
And it's the testing is the scraping, the docomo. Is that what it is?
- [31:06]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah.
- [31:07]
Ryan
You're dialed, bro.
- [31:08]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Testing is the doco. The docomo is actually a person in Greek culture That would take currency. Docomo as a person, you'd bring. Because they had a counterfeit problem.
- [31:15]
Ryan
Yeah, yeah.
- [31:16]
Garrett Uncle Bock
And so they would bring money to the docomo and he would say, real money, fake money. Yeah. And so wherever, most of the time when scripture's talking about the test, it's a test of docomo. You may look like a Roman coin, but we're going to take you to the docomo and he'll see. And that's really God is the docomo saying, you may look like a coin, you may look like one of mine, but I'm going to look at you and I'll determine if you're real or you're not.
- [31:36]
Ryan
Dang, man, you got like a walking lexicon.
- [31:39]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Let's go. I, I enjoy the lexicon. I wouldn't say I'm. We're just. We just happen to be hitting on some of the scriptures that I brought up, talking about some of the words that I like.
- [31:48]
Ryan
No, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Okay, so we've been going through a lot of these themes. Bring, bring them to life for us. Like, like, I want to hear the moments in buds.
- [31:58]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah.
- [31:59]
Ryan
Like, did you ever come to that breaking point?
- [32:01]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah, let me. I want to. I want to finish this thought on GCO really quick. And then I got a story that I'll share with you. So with, with considerate with the weight. And then there's one other word that I want to share. Right. Because there's 2th. There's 2 things we know that scripture can tell us or that scripture says we can hear when we die. Well done, good and faithful servant, turn away from me. I never knew you. And in Scripture where Jesus says, many will come to me on that day. What day is that? The day that you die. And I will say to them, many will say, you know, lord, Lord, we cast out demons in your name. We prophesied in your. And Jesus says, and I will say to them, turn away from me. I never knew you. This is a. This is one of those. The first time I read this scripture, like I put my Bible down and I stood up and I just like, I didn't know what to think. Because Scripture says in multiple other places that God. Ephesians 2:10. God created you for good workmanship, knew you before you were born. Scripture says that God knew that the hairs on. Knows the hairs on your head. Right? So how could God say I know you, but also say I never knew you? This is an important word to understand. Understand the word there for know. K N o w know is the Greek word ginosko. And you don't have to have been to church very often to have learned to at least heard this word. Because when you come to church for Christmas, you hear the, the story of the angel of the Lord appearing to Mary and saying, mary, you're going to be pregnant. And your common English Bible will say, mary. Mary says, well, how could I be pregnant from a virgin? But when you look at the direct text, she says, how could I be pregnant pregnant for I have never known a man. And so what gasco means she's saying, how could I be. I can't be changed. I can't have a baby inside me because I've never received the seed of another man that would change and transform me. And so what GCO means is to be changed through intimacy. And so it doesn't. And this is, I hope this is a word for somebody. Jesus doesn't care that you know him. Jesus doesn't care that you believe in him. What Jesus cares about is that you would let him change who you are. And it is a, an unfortunate, very prevalent lie in the world today that God wants you to stay. Now, God loves you, but that doesn't mean he wants you to stay exactly the way that you are. Because if you look at what he did with his people, the first thing he did was he asked them to cut off a really uncomfortable part of themselves. And he says, I'm going to set you apart. So God wants to change you. And that is when I die, I want to hear, well done, good and faithful servant. And the reason that Jesus wouldn't say to me, turn away from him is because I've let him change who I. I am, right? And so you're asking for a story. Tell you a story. That was really difficult for me going into Seal training. So I went in at 19. I was one of only two in my class under 20 years old who graduated. Not very many people make it through at that age. It's just, it's very mentally tough. And I was, I thought, I always tell people I, I thought I was an athlete until I met some, right? Like, I was a good athlete in high school, which means I'm not that good of an athlete.
- [34:59]
Ryan
Dude. I thought I was a shortstop until got in the minor leagues and met the Dominicans.
- [35:03]
Garrett Uncle Bock
There's a nope, you're going to left field, buddy. As one of my favorite movies, Star wars says, there's always a bigger fish. I thought it was a good athlete until I met some great athletes. And I was like, I'm a terrible athlete. Yeah. Yeah. And SEAL training is full of great athletes. Not all of them make it, but anyways, going into SEAL training, I thought I was a good athlete, but I also, I didn't go through any of, like, the prep programs. Many guys spend three or four years, like, with a SEAL mentor going through training programs and all this. This. I saw a video, like, November of 2009, I saw a YouTube video, Bud's Class 234 Discovery Channel documentary.
- [35:40]
Ryan
So good.
- [35:41]
Garrett Uncle Bock
I watched that in November. And a few months later, I was in boot camp. Right. Like, I had no idea what I was doing. I just, I saw it. I was like, this is it. This is what I'm supposed to do. And so I. I got it. I got thrown into the fire. I was in the bottom third of my class. Athletically, I could barely pass the four mile time to run. I was an average swimmer. Luckily, I grew up with a pool. Loved seeing your kids in the pool. I grew up with a pool, so I could swim halfway decent. I was good at the obstacle course, but I was a terrible runner. And so I was consistently ranked, like, bottom third of my class. I had a roommate going through training that. He was the number one athlete in our class. He was the number one runner. He was one of the top swimmers. He was one of the top. On the O course. Best athlete in the class. You get ranked, they have your numbers. It's an actual athletic ranking. He's number one athlete in the class. His d. Dad was a Master Chief Navy seal.
- [36:31]
Ryan
Wow.
- [36:32]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Okay. And he would say to me every day, uncle Bach, you have no chance here. Right. And this guy knows a lot. I mean, his dad's a Master Chief. Everyone knows who his dad is.
- [36:43]
Ryan
Yeah.
- [36:43]
Garrett Uncle Bock
And he's the number one athlete in the class.
- [36:45]
Ryan
Yeah.
- [36:45]
Garrett Uncle Bock
He probably knows a little bit more about this community. Sure. Than I do. And he would say to me every day, uncle Bach, you have no chance here. And on. The truth is that was some of his own insecurity that he's working through. He didn't have a dad like I did, unfortunately. His dad was a great Navy seal, but I don't think his dad was around all the time. I had a father who was very president in my life. There's two things my parents said to me all the time growing up, and I call this the infinite potential unlock. My parents said these two things all the time growing up, and I say it to my kids. Number one is, God has a plan for your life. Now My parents said that when I was 5. They said that when I was 10. 10. It said when I was 15. And it didn't. It didn't. Wouldn't say. It didn't mean anything to me, but it really didn't mean much at that age. But they continued to tell me, God has a plan for your life. That's purpose. And the other thing they would say to me all the time is, you can have anything you want in life if you're willing to pay the price for it, and that's potential. They didn't say, it'll be easier for you than for other people. They said, if you're willing to pay the price, and if you have been alive for more than a decade, you have discovered that life is not fair. Some people have to pay a higher price for the same product. But they just said, if you're willing to pay the price, you can have whatever you want. And so my parents told me from a young age that I have purpose and that I have potential. So I went into this program. There were plenty of people who were telling me, you don't belong here. You're not good enough here. But what I more than trusting them, what I trusted was, you know, I said, you know, maybe you guys know a little bit about this program, but my dad knows me a lot better than you guys know me, and I trust him more than I trust you. And so that was like a great foundation for my identity as a young man, but also spiritually, to have an identity that my father has given to me. Not just my earthly father, but also my heavenly father. And so going into Hell Week, this is one of the most difficult weeks of seal training. You'll run for over 200. It starts on Sunday night, goes until Friday. You'll go for five and a half days. You'll sleep for a maximum of two hours, run over 200 miles. The majority of that is with a boat on your head. The boat weighs about 200 pounds, carried by six guys. And what it feels like is just imagine, like, a really big dude running behind you while you're running with a giant phone book just smacking you on the top of the head. And that's what it feels like to run. So it's one of the most difficult weeks in all of military training. And as we were going into this, I was sitting in a classroom with. We were. Wait. It's called breakout. Breakout is the beginning of Hell Week. They put you in this classroom and you just wait. You don't know if it's going to start at 8pm or at midnight. And part of the reason for that is because the hardest part of pain is the anticipation of the pain. My dad taught me this. Ryan, I don't know if you have to spank your kids yet or if you do that, but before my dad would spank us, he'd say, go to your room, I'm going to spank you. And we'd sit up there, sit up there for 20 minutes or 30 minutes. And by the time we came up there, we were in a very different position than when we were before. But anyways, I say that to say we're sitting in the classroom waiting for breakout to start. You're waiting for what will be one of the most painful weeks of your entire life to start. Start. It's a difficult moment. And we start to have this conversation. Me and my boat crew. These are the five or six guys that I'm going to go through Hell Week with, assuming they all make it. And because of my performance in the class, because I was 19 years old, I was ranked in the bottom third of the class. Guys started asking me, they said, you know, the, My book crew starts talking and they're saying, hey, do you think you'll make it through training? Do you make you think you'll make it through Hell Week? And that's. This is the conversation everyone's having. And again, because I, you know, wasn't super well liked, I had kind of just gotten to a place where I didn't really spe very often, just kind of speak when spoken to. But my boat crew leader, he said, well, Uncle Bock, do you think you'll make it? And I said, I don't think I'll make it. I know I'll make it. And, and I'll. And not only will I make it, but on Saturday, when all of us are at med checks and people are coughing up blood, when guys are on crutches, when everyone goes to med checks, I'm going to go for a run on the beach by myself is what I said to my, my boat crew. And I'll tell you why I said that. When we first got to Sandy Diego, we first got to San Diego, we saw this class who had just finished Hell Week, and there was only about 40 of them. And they looked like a bus had run them over and then pulled back over them and then backed over them again. These guys could barely walk. They were on crutches. Literally. They're coughing up blood. You get this thing called sipe. Swimmer induced pulmonary edema. You get blood in your lungs. Good, go. I mean, their heads are swollen up. Their fingers look like sausages. They're just. Their bodies are destroyed. And I saw this class who. I just finished Hell Week. And I. And I got a picture. I said, I'm going to finish Hell Week, but I won't look like that when I do. And so my class asked me, they said, you know, do you think you'll. I mean, my boat caressed me. They said, do you think you'll make it? I said, not only do I think I'll make it, I know I'll make it. And then I'm going to go for a run on the beach by myself. Well, fast forward to Saturday. I did go for a run on the beach by myself. If you've ever been to Coronado, there's these rocks in front of the Dell, and that's about a mile from our base. And so I ran down there to the rocks and I climbed out there and it's a fog, foggy morning like most Saturday or most California mornings are. And I sat out there on the rocks and I was just kind of having a moment with the Lord and I realized something that I think is so much more powerful. And this comes back to what I was talking about with Considerate is that it's not really about what others see, it's about what you see. This is the exact. That that was a revelation that I had was the power of perspective. What the guys were saying about me was true. I was physically in the bottom third of my class as an athlete. I was 19 years old. I knew not the program. And from the outside looking in, you would look at the other people in my class and you would have picked other people to make it to the program instead of me. But that's not what mattered. Just like God said to the prophet about David and his brothers. You look at the outside, I'm looking at something different. I was looking at my situation and not looking at the same things that other people were seeing. And this is what I think so many men have to catch in their life is the power of perspective. It is the power of. To consider it. It's the same story for the spies who went to the Promised land, right? God brings all the Israelites to the edge of the promised land over 40 miracles. From the time they leave Egypt to the time they're at the edge of the Promised Land, God's been doing everything for them. Then he brings them to the edge of the Promised land and he says, here it is. There's the promised land for you, go and take it. And God pivots in our life. From there is the God that is a gift giver, God that frees us from our bondage, that gives us our salvation, all these things that we've not earned. Nothing we could ever do to earn what God's given us. But then also God says as sons now go out and do great work and for us, go into the promised land. And before they went into the promised land, God said to Moses, send 12 spies in to go and observe the land. All 12 of them, they saw the same thing. They didn't see different things. All 12 of them saw the same thing, but 10 gave a different report than the two. And that is the power of perspective. Right? Where the two men, Joshua, when Caleb, who put their faith in the Lord, they saw a different thing than the other 10 did. They were physically, their eyes were seeing the same thing, but they told different stories because they had different foundations. And for me, in my life going through SEAL training, I went through on a different foundation than some other guys did. And I'm not saying that's a 100% for if there's any tadpoles listening. Tadpoles are guys who want to become SEALs. I'm not saying that's a perfect picture for making it through the program, but I will say it is a great foundation for anything you do in life. That what is the foundation that you're building on off of it from. For me, going in, I had a great deal of confidence, but I also knew it was entirely possible that I wouldn't make it through the program. But what I was sure of was that God has brought me to this place. And God's either brought me here for me to make it through this program, or if he hasn't made it through and desired for me to make it through this program, then God has some other great purpose for me. And again, that comes back to what my parents said. God has a great plan for your life, right? And I said, maybe that great plan is for me to be a seal. If it is, if God's great plan is for me to be a seal, there's still a lot of work that, that I'm going to have to do. Right? Just because he has a plan for me doesn't mean they're going to let me just walk through this program. The SEAL program is the SEAL program, regardless of God's plan for my life. But if that program had rejected me, I knew that God's plan was still great. Yeah, wow.
- [45:31]
Ryan
Dang, dude. So I'm just going to be honest with what I'm thinking right now. And I felt this after we got lunch that one time. Time, too. I'm like, dang, bro. This guy is dialed on, like, every level. And in my life right now, like, I'm, you know, I feel like I kind of go in and out of burnout. Like, I'm kind of like, I've got, you know, kids. I'm a very present dad. So I'm very helpful around the house and breakfast and watching them. And then I go into the full work day and, you know, you're telling stories of, like, perspective and, like, mental toughness. And it just seems like there's this unique, unbreakable thing in you. But I'm sure you've had these moments of, like, deep vulnerability and like, this place where you kind of came to a breaking point with the Lord. Like, I have two questions. Can you. Is that true? And can you take me into those moments? And then secondly, how. How have you built the resilience that you've built?
- [46:29]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah, great question. Well, for one, I'll say that everyone is human, myself included. One of my favorite human stories in the Bible is it's. It's a funny. Is the reminder of Elijah one of the greatest moments. You know, Elijah, one of the greats who God brings to witness Christ's transfiguration. So one of the few that gets to experience that he's hall of fame. And right after, in Elijah's story, he does one of the greatest miracles in all of Scripture. Rains down fire from heaven and then goes and kills the 600 false prophets. Prophets. Like, that's a line in scripture you just read right over. But this guy killed 600 false prophets. Then he's running from Jezebel. And you know his story, he sits down in the desert and he says, God, like, just kill me, right? Like, I'm. He says, I'm the only one serving you. And then God reminds him, like, elijah, you're not the only one serving. I don't remember what the number is. There's like 700 other men that are serving me. But the angel of the Lord comes and says, hey, man, eat some food.
- [47:25]
Ryan
Yeah, here's a nap.
- [47:26]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Some shade. Eat some food, take a nap, right? This is the lesson of doing hard things, is it? Is telling yourself. This is something I've had to tell myself many times. Times it's something I got to practice and learn through SEAL training, is I don't have to do this for forever. I just have to do it for right now. Right. The great thing you can know about life, Saul Solomon says it all through Ecclesiastes, is that the times change. Right. Good things come and good things go. Bad things come and bad things go. But I've decided what type of man that I want to be. And so even when you're feeling, you know, hangry, when you're feeling depressed, when you're going through low moments, you can still choose to act a certain way regardless of how you're feeling. And that is, that is the, that's part of putting your flesh on the altar. You know, Ryan, a lot of men like to say that they're not emotional. Men are just as emotional as women. Men just feel different emotions. We don't have emotions, we just have in emotion. For men, it's just anger and frustration. Right.
- [48:23]
Ryan
At least that's the ones that are appropriate to share.
- [48:27]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Right. And so I said to say we're all going to deal with emotions. That's part of putting your flesh on the altar. Right. God wants to change my, my thinking. God didn't say he wants to change my feelings. God wants to change my thinking. Feelings is something that I'm going to deal with as part of being human. It's part of one of the great things that makes us human. And it's part of our care, it's part of our empathy.
- [48:47]
Ryan
That's really important, what you said. I want to double tap on that because nowhere in the whole Bible does it say to take your feelings captive. Yeah, it says express your feelings. And then we have a model in Jesus who wept, who literally was stripped naked and spit on and beaten and was like, I'm going to be seen as vulnerable as people possible. But then he's also saying, make war with your thoughts. Yeah, take them captive. That's an aggressive statement. You're putting them in prison and saying, does this obey Christ? If not, stay in that prison, Take every thought captive.
- [49:16]
Garrett Uncle Bock
And also is the power of the tongue. Now you're, I appreciate the, the respect you, you have for me, Ryan. It's, it's maybe unmerited, but I appreciate it. I will say the one thing that I have that a lot of people in our age don't have is I have the experience of putting things in a life and death experience. And so it gives me just a little view of certain things and where the perspective. Yeah, it's a different perspective where the scripture says that the tongue has the power of life and death. I take that seriously. Right. I, I have dropped bombs on people. I know what life and death is. And so when. When. When scripture tells me the power and life and death is on the tongue, I treat my tongue the same way that I treat a loaded firearm, which I carry all the time. Right. It's a great reminder for me, carrying loaded firearm, to be mindful, to be aware, to have respect for the tools, that God's tongue is one of those things. And I was having this conversation with someone recently, like, man, like, I just feel. They. They kind of accuse me of being inhuman. And I said, I'm. I feel feelings. But here. Here's how you know that I'm having a hard time. I won't say anything because what I. What I am capable. I'm not always capable of controlling my emotions, but I'm capable of keeping my mouth closed, because what I'm not going to do is give ammunition to the enemy. What the SEAL teams taught us a ton about intel, right? The way that, like, there were. There were enemies that we fought against in. In Yemen. And I knew their text messages. I heard the conversations they had with their. Their wives. I knew everything about them. I had all this intel report. And so, of course, I know how to take advantage of them. And I take that battlefield mindset that the military gave me, and I think about it with the enemy. The enemy has the ability to maybe speak things to me, but the enemy does not know my thoughts. Thoughts.
- [51:08]
Ryan
Right.
- [51:09]
Garrett Uncle Bock
He can't read my mind. He can't hear your words, though. But he hears everything that I say. And so sometimes I think I'm. I'm very human. I think the most terrible things. My mind falls prey to the worst of temptations, but I won't let it come out of my mouth. I won't choose to act on those things. And that is what keeps me from being a prey to the enemy.
- [51:28]
Ryan
And so that doesn't mean you don't process.
- [51:30]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah.
- [51:31]
Ryan
Doesn't mean you go to your wife and say, hey, this has been really hard for me.
- [51:34]
Garrett Uncle Bock
I won't. I'll leave some. Some breadcrumbs and maybe some homework for the audience. Go read Job's story and see how long it is. From the time that he goes, Job goes through a period of silence where he doesn't speak. Why? Because he's processing. And he knows I better not say anything stupid right now because I'm thinking some really stupid things.
- [51:54]
Ryan
Right, right, right, right. Yeah. And I think it's really important because this is. This is like, the mental health part of me coming Out. We need to understand that we give ammunition to the enemy and we partner with him. When we start believing lies and we start speaking lies, when we take on an identity that's ours in Christ, and we partner with what he's saying about us rather than what Christ says about us, it's one of the worst things you can do. However, it's really important to process with people. If you, if you're holding on to things, if you're holding on to emotions, if you're holding on to even lies, like, you're not, like, confess to one another that you may be healed, bear one another's burdens, and you fulfill the law of Christ. So we have to be processing the difficult things in our lives. So that's not. You're not advocating against that. What I'm hearing you say is there.
- [52:41]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Are times people say them as identity standards, statements.
- [52:44]
Ryan
Exactly. I have anxiety. I. I'll never get married. I guess. I guess I'm just not what people are looking for. It's like, okay, no, no, no. You are partnering with an identity that the enemy wants to slap on you. Not as a child of God who stands in authority.
- [52:57]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Again, it's power of life and death on the tongue. Right. I. I look at, and this is an important understanding. I'm. I'm sorry, I'm blanking on the reference, but it says in Scripture that God puts his. His Word above His name. Puts his word above his name. It's an interesting thought process that God values His Word more than his name. And why is that? That's because if your Word's not worth anything, your name's not worth anything either. The value of God's name is because every time God speaks, so it is. Right. And so as a. That.
- [53:30]
Ryan
That is again, that's how God created the universe. He spoke it.
- [53:33]
Garrett Uncle Bock
He spoke it into motion. And so we are made in God's image. And so that doesn't mean that I have all the power that God has, but it doesn't mean I'm made in his image. And it means I should act, I should think, be, do everything in my life, should model the way that he lives. Right. And so what does that mean? That means every word that comes out of my mouth, I'm creating something with it. And so, like, before you speak, the next time the words are about to come out of your mouth, you better think, do I want to create something with this? Is this what I want to be true? And so there are times where I'm very angry. There's times where I'm very frustrated. There's times where I'm prideful, there's times where I'm selfish. But I will not let the words come out of my mouth and I repent. I say, God, I don't want these thoughts. This isn't who I want to be. I want you to cleanse me. Otherwise I'm going to write contracts and I'm going to create things with the words that come out of my mouth. And so again, that's who God is. He puts his word above his name. God doesn't say things that he regrets. And so again, that doesn't mean that I might not feel things or think the wrong things, but I don't want to say the wrong things. And that's the power of things. Self control, right? It's understanding, right? Like what, what I knew. Again, this is what the military taught me. The one time you're not paying attention, they, they teach us, they said all the time complacency kills. The one time you're loose with what you say, the one time you're not paying attention to your fives and your 25s, the one time you don't do a press check on your weapon is the one time that it's going to cost you your life. The one time you're loose with your tongue, you're going to put yourself in a terrible situation. The one time you're loose with your tongue, you're going to say things to the wrong people, you're going to speak the WR statements over your life. And so self control isn't meant to be easy. Equanimity is this ability that they talked about in the SEAL teams that you didn't panic when you were getting shot at. It is not an easy thing to do, but it is, but you are capable of it. I had a friend going through SEAL training. This is when we were on pool comp. And I'll go short on this story, but when you're going through pool comp, which is the, basically the way that civilians look at this test is they just drown you and they are testing for something. And again, I won't belabor the story, but I had a friend who spent over three and a half minutes underwater and just drown at the bottom of the pool and go, go try to stay underwater in your pool until you drowned. It is a very difficult thing to do. But for him it was either stay underwater until I pass out or my career is over. And, and we had video of this and I remember watching the video and we watched this guy's video because it was just a great feat of equanimity that he just fought through this situation. It is not a easy thing to do, but it is very simple. I just have to stay right here. And that's really, that God is saying, look, I'm not going to ask you to do things that like, are impossible for you. All things are possible with me. I'm asking you to trust me and I'm asking you to be obedient. That's really what God asks of us. And so for my friend Hori, the obedience was you stay down here in this pool until you solve your problem or you pass out. And that's what a lot of following God looks like for us. It's not going to be easy, but it is, is very simple. Don't let the wrong things come out of your mouth. When you want to make the wrong choices, you repent. That's the power of self control.
- [56:43]
Ryan
So good. And I think a lot of times we don't even realize how much we're cursing ourselves. Like, I, I, I have a coach who I was, I was meeting with him the other day and, and I'm just like lamenting all this stuff. I'm just like going on and on and on about how difficult things are and like, and, and one of the things I kept saying was like, I'm just stuck in this. Like I've set up a world for, for myself. That's too much. I've got, you know, the, the content creation is one thing, but then there's like 17 things and on top of four kids. And the thing he kept saying to me is, he's like, are you not creative enough? Like you keep saying you're stuck. Are you not creative enough to figure a way out? And he's like, you need to stop saying that now. And it was great for me to have someone shake me out of the lie.
- [57:28]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah.
- [57:29]
Ryan
And I think sometimes we don't even realize how much we're calling cursing ourselves. We don't even realize how much we're partnering with the enemy because we've maybe heard some things that were said over us when we were five years old and we've thought, oh, that's just, that's just the way we, we talk about ourselves. It's like, no, no, no. Life and death. Yeah, you've seen it. Like you said, you've dropped bombs on people. Life and death. You understand the dynamic here. You understand how serious this is, is in our tongue. And we, we have the ability to Bless or to curse with our mouths. And I think as Christians, you know, we just interviewed Rion, who's the former head of the Church of Satan in South Africa.
- [58:03]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah, I saw that.
- [58:04]
Ryan
Yeah, dude. It was insane. One of the things he said, he's like, everyone thinks you just go to, like, this demonic attack. It's like, oh, if you get attacked, it's just all of a sudden you're just getting, you know, like. Like this crazy attack happening to you. He's like, no, no, no. The first step is doubt.
- [58:18]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah.
- [58:18]
Ryan
He's like, that's how the kingdom of darkness works. We want you to get you to doubt your authority.
- [58:23]
Garrett Uncle Bock
The flu that kills you starts with the sniffles 100%. It models the sickness we see in the human body. It's just a slow onset.
- [58:31]
Ryan
Right, right. And so our ministry. So, like, part of the reason why I started Share the Struggle, the nonprofit where we give coaching support. We also have a bunch of courses on different topics like trauma, mental health, or all different mental health topics, from trauma to anxiety, miscarriage. The reason we started our coaching was because I was looking at the state of mental health in our country, and I'm like, this is. This is awful. This is breeding grounds for post modernity. And it's just like a. Okay, come here and let me. Let me. Let's talk about how hard your life is. I'll say, wow, that must be so hard. And then give me 200 bucks. And I'm like, now there is value in processing, sure, 100%. There's value in processing. But unless we're teaching people skills to take their thoughts captive. Because if the Bible is exposing the enemy's playbook and saying, this is how Satan attacks. Flaming arrows. What are flaming arrows Thoughts? If you don't know the skill of taking up your shield of faith and extinguishing the flaming arrows, you won't do it because you don't have it in your arsenal. You haven't been trained on it.
- [59:34]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Right.
- [59:34]
Ryan
So we literally call our whole coaching ministry a captive thoughts model. You listening? Want to take part in that? Just go to sharethestruggle.org and sign up today. We are cheaper than any other mental health program on the planet. People are always like, in. In the comments, being like, why do you charge for this? I'm like, we have to pay the coaches that this is their livelihood. So sorry.
- [59:55]
Garrett Uncle Bock
The difference between coaching, because I do some coaching as well. I tell people when before they start with me. I said, just so you know, this isn't therapy. That doesn't mean we can't talk about our problems. But for Garrett, here's what I think the difference between coaching and therapy is. Therapy is we're going to talk about our problems, right? Coaching is we're going to talk about our problems and we're going to do something.
- [60:12]
Ryan
Heck, yeah, dude. That's. That's it. It's. It's future focused. It's actionable.
- [60:16]
Garrett Uncle Bock
And I think what all of. And I'm. My. My. My sister's actually a. A doctor of counseling and has a pro practice and teaches courses at Liberty. And so I love getting to talk with her about stuff because she listens to my podcast and she's one of my biggest fans. And I love my sister. She's brilliant. And I get to. Because I didn't even go to college, so there's a lot of stuff that I don't know. And so I get to talk to her about. I said, is this right? Because this is what I think. This is what I've learned in scripture. This is what I've learned in some of my experience. But anyways, I think so much of what we're trying to process is our beliefs. And I have a definition that I use for beliefs. Beliefs are the things that we know are true but can. Can't prove. Some people have wrong beliefs, right? And those wrong beliefs will lead you into some terrible places. Like I said, those beliefs are. Like I said, God has a plan for my life. That's a belief. I can't prove it to you that God has a plan for my life. I can show you a bunch of evidence, but I cannot scientifically prove. Demonstratable, verifiable, repeatable. I cannot scientifically prove to you that God has a plan for my life, but there is nothing you can do that'll take that belief away from me. So if I. If I lost my family, if I lost everything that I had, I would say, I still believe that God has a plan for my life. So I operate based upon my beliefs. Some people's beliefs are. Bad things happen to me. And so when bad things happen to them, they say, see, there's more evidence when bad things happen to me, Ryan. I go, that's weird, because that's not. I believe that I'm lucky if I ever put my name in, like, a lottery for stuff. I win things all the time. I believe I'm a very lucky person. And when I don't win, I'm like, that's weird.
- [61:48]
Ryan
Yeah, right, right, right. That's awesome.
- [61:50]
Garrett Uncle Bock
I have a different Set of beliefs. And so, again, you got to determine what your. If you don't like the way your life is going for you. Right. I would ask you, what are your beliefs, and how's that going for you?
- [62:01]
Ryan
Right.
- [62:02]
Garrett Uncle Bock
What I've shared today are some of my beliefs. I'm not saying I'm perfect or I got it all figured out, but I have some beliefs that I've anchored my life on, and it's going very well for me. And so the beliefs that you have, where do they come from, and are they based upon scripture? My beliefs are based on and anchored in scripture. Something that has not changed and something that will never change. And so this is something that I. I'm literally the. This is. Maybe we can wrap up here, or. Unless you want me to comment on resilience, and we can talk. As long as you want to talk. I love this conversation.
- [62:32]
Ryan
We can also run it back, man. We're practically neighbors for sure.
- [62:37]
Garrett Uncle Bock
But with beliefs, it's determining what are the things that I'm willing to base my life on. Because all of us, Ryan, we're all going to die. And I had a friend in the Navy, his name's Charlie Keating. Died May 3, 2016. I'll always talk about Charlie. Charlie died with a smile on his face. And it wasn't because his family was gonna receive a $400,000 death benefit when he died. Charlie died with a smile on his face. Cause he died fighting for something that he believed in, that his life was worth that. And so all of us are going to die. I'm past that season, and probably most of the people listening to this podcast are not in a season where they're potentially going to die in an instant for what they believe in. But every single one of us, you and I included, are going to die for what we believe in. We'll just die for it slowly. And if you're not willing to die in an instant for what you believe in, it's probably not what you should spend the rest of your life living for. And so if you have beliefs that maybe you would question, like, man, I don't think I would die for this. Maybe it's not the right thing for you to live for either.
- [63:41]
Ryan
Right? Right. Dude, you know what's so cool about this podcast is I feel like this is, you know, maybe selfish, but if. If it. If it wasn't reaching anyone, it's like, if this was just for me, I'd still do it, you know, because it's.
- [63:59]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Like, I love podcasting. It's Fun.
- [64:01]
Ryan
You leave with these little nuggets. Like. Like even just hearing you say that, like, if I don't. If I don't win a prize, like if I put my name in a lottery and I don't win it, I'm like, what the heck? I'm like, that's authority.
- [64:12]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah.
- [64:12]
Ryan
That's understanding that. That God wants to bless you. It's not prosperity gospel, and it's not. Not manifesting. Manifesting and prosperity gospel miss it because they fundamentally do not trust the one who is the good giver of gifts. But we can stand in the authority knowing that if we're children and if James 1 is true, that every good and perfect gift comes from the Father of Heaven, then we can say, yes, Lord, why would I not be blessed? Why would I not be prosperous? Why would you not want to give me the life that you have called Zoe? Life, Life and life to the fullest?
- [64:45]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Prosperity gospel, I think, is just a misunderstanding of what God's greatest desire is. What I know, Ryan, is that you and I are children of God, and you and I both have children. Do I want my children to have a nice house one day? Yes. Am I willing to do that for them at the expense of who they are in their care? Absolutely not. What God wants most for me is the exact same thing that I want for my children to reach their greatest potential, to fully mature, to produce great fruit with their lives. And again, that's also James chapter one. But it's what God wants most for me is for the entire reason that God created an experience where faith is required. Right? Cause God doesn't. God's not like Santa Claus, that his sleigh's not gonna fly if we don't believe in him. He doesn't need our faith to be able to do things. Misunderstanding of faith. God allows faith because he says, I'm not gonna do everything for you because I want to teach you about who I am. And the more you understand who I am, the more you'll understand who you are. And that's what's gonna help you grow and mature and like material things. That's fruit of this world that also comes and goes. And you can do everything right. And you know what? The hail can come in and destroy your crops. And you know what? If God wants you to succeed, God will cover you from the hail. Or maybe God won't. Because what God cares more about is the lesson that you're going to learn from the hail, destroying your crops. What God wants most for us is our maturity and so again, that comes back to, like, my anchor belief is God has a great plan for my life and so I can look at terrible things that happen to me. And I say, oh, man, this is good. Why I choose to see it that way because I know God. What God's doing in me is better. Otherwise, I'm saying that my plan is better than God's, and I'm a dummy if I think that. We'll wrap up on this. You asked about resilience. Resilience is something that I care a lot about, something I teach on quite often. What is resilience? Resilience is like scientifically. Resilience is the property of a material to quickly return to its original shape. Right. If you bounce. Bounce a bouncy ball off of the ground, it bounces those super bouncy balls. Is so fun playing with your kids. The reason it bounces so high is because it deforms and then returns to shape instantly. And so it bounces back off of the floor. If you throw a piece of cookie dough at the floor, it has zero resilience. It hits the floor and it has a new shape and it never returns to its old form. That's the opposite of resiliency. So resiliency is this ability to get hit and return to your original form. All of us have what I would call in this scientific contest, like a Christ original form. God is a way for me to think. God has a way for me to be. God has his word, right? And so I will go through things that might test my beliefs. And resiliency is, how quickly can I get back to what God's word says, not what my experiences say. A lack of resilience means that you go through experiences and they turn you into something that scripture has not made you to be. The difference between resilience and confidence, because people would think they're similar. Confidence is based upon experiences in a positive way. Confidence is, I've made 99 free throws. I believe I can make another.
- [67:49]
Ryan
Right?
- [67:49]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Right. Like, of course, right. That I believe in myself and maybe had the way some people experience. Confidence is you believe in yourself a little bit more than your experience. Like, I, you know, like, I've done good, I can continue to do good. Resilience is, I've missed 99 free throws, but I'm going to make the next one. And that is, I have a strong set of beliefs, I have a strong identity. But here's. So they're way different. Resilience and confidence, not the same thing at all. Confidence, good experiences leads to more good experiences. And this is also. I love watching the mental game of professional athletes because I can see the ones who are built on confidence and the ones who are built on resilience. You see the guys who snowball who have a game entirely built on confidence. I only perform well while I'm performing well, and I cannot return to my original form very quickly. Resilience is such a great mental attribute, but that resilience is also similar to one of the worst attributes, which. Which is delusion. Nobody wants to be around delusional people. And what is delusion? Delusion is, I can't see myself accurately. We've all been that person or know that person who, like, is like, oh, I'm gonna do this. Or people see me this way, and it's like, bro, you are not looking in the mirror. And resilience seems similar, right? Like, resilience. What do you mean? You missed 99 free throws, but you believe you're gonna make the next one? Yeah, Right? That was how a lot of people, like some of my. The people I went through SEAL training with who didn't even make it, would say that I. I was delusional. They're like, how do you believe you're gonna make this program? You suck. Right? You're one of the slowest runners in the class. Why do you think you're gonna make it through this program? Well, there's. There's two. There's two distinctions. One, confident. Confidence is based upon experience. Resilience is based upon identity. But there's something that has to go with identity, because delusion is. You're forcing an identity. No, I'm. I'm. I'm overweight. But you're saying, no, I'm. I'm healthy. I don't have any problems. You are. You know, you're not a great leader, but you keep telling yourself, no. Everyone likes following me, right? That's a wrong. You're speaking the wrong identity. Resilience is strong identity, strong beliefs, plus humility. Where resilience turns into delusion is with pride. Pride is filling yourself up. Pride is lying to yourself about who you really are. You don't really want to look in the mirror. You'd rather just feel good about yourself. And so resilience is based upon a strong identity, strong beliefs, but it has to have humility with it, because a resilient person can say, you know what? Maybe I'm not as good as I thought, but I'll get better. So it's a growth mindset, and it's humility that allows you to have these rock solid beliefs. You know what? I believe God has a plan for my life. Maybe I'll get rejected from the SEAL program, but you know what? God has a great plan for me anyway. So whatever's next is going to be the next thing. I'm going to do all I can in this program, and if I still get rejected, that's okay. The next thing is where God wants to take me. Right? That's humility. That's a strong identity. God has a great plan for my life. Strong beliefs, right, Versus delusion is pride. Whoo.
- [70:42]
Ryan
Dude, that's good, man.
- [70:45]
Garrett Uncle Bock
That's good.
- [70:47]
Ryan
Thank you. Dude, this has been. This has been a blessing. Feel like. I feel like that one needs to be chewed on for a little bit, but.
- [70:54]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Well, honored, Honored. Thank you for having me.
- [70:56]
Ryan
Well, let's run it back, man. Let's hang out soon.
- [70:58]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah, for sure. I'd love that. I love that.
- [71:00]
Ryan
Where can people find you?
- [71:01]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Best place to find me. You can check out our podcast the Impossible Life podcast. We release episodes every week. Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcast the Impossible Life. And check me out on Instagram. I post a lot of things on on Instagram from the men's ministry that I lead. Just Garrett Uncle Bock. Real easy to find on Instagram. If you lead a men's ministry, you're interested in how to lead a men's ministry, feel free to shoot me a dm. Love helping guys grow something in their own church. And if you're interested in business, feel free to follow me on LinkedIn. I talk about all the stuff I'm doing in the business world there.
- [71:35]
Ryan
Yeah, we didn't even get into that.
- [71:36]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Dude. We didn't get.
- [71:37]
Ryan
You're like multiple business owner. But anyway, next time, man.
- [71:41]
Garrett Uncle Bock
Yeah, next.
- [71:41]
Ryan
Appreciate thanks for being on honored.