Jesus People Podcast – Episode 28 Summary

Guest: Lisa Vermillion
Host: Ryan Miller
Date: July 22, 2025
Episode Title: Is AI the Antichrist? Prophecy, Tech & End-Times Faith

Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Ryan Miller confronts a disquieting question that’s been unsettling him since a prior interview: Is AI the Antichrist? Inspired by a comment from Rion, a former head of the Church of Satan in South Africa, the episode dives into scriptural exploration and theological speculation. To deepen the discussion, Ryan brings in Lisa Vermillion, a highly accomplished AI innovator and practicing Christian, to offer a balanced, nuanced view on the intersection of faith, emerging technology, and end-times prophecy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origins of the AI as Antichrist Theory

• Ryan shares that the idea originated from Rion, who stated, “I think AI might be the Antichrist, which really messed me up… Am I using ChatGPT every day and it's the Antichrist?” (00:18)
• Emphasizes this is not a simple "AI is good or bad" debate, but a biblical deep dive into the nature of prophetic and apocalyptic scripture.

2. Interpreting Apocalyptic Scripture

• Ryan sets the stage: “Anyone that tells you that they read the Book of Revelation and know exactly what it means, don’t listen to that person. Nobody knows exactly what the Book of Revelation means.” (03:06)
• Encourages listeners to approach with humility and recognize the complexities of Apocalyptic writing: “We are not reading historical nonfiction. We are reading apocalyptic writing.” (04:22)

3. ChatGPT Makes a “Biblical Case”: AI as Antichrist?

Ryan reads a detailed answer from ChatGPT, arguing how modern AI could match certain Antichrist characteristics:

• Imitating God’s Attributes (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Isaiah 14:14):
  • Omniscience (knowing everything – AI data aggregation)
  • Omnipresence (always listening – smart devices)
  • Omnipotence (powerful – shaping policy, warfare)
• Signs and Wonders (2 Thessalonians 2:9, Matthew 24:24):
  • Digital miracles like resurrecting voices of the dead, deepfakes, synthetic prophecy
• Controlling Commerce (Revelation 13:17):
  • Digital identity tracking, social credit scores, transactional surveillance
• Denying Christ’s Incarnation (1 John 4:3):
  • Spreading tailored, deceptive theologies
• Demanding Worship of an Image (Revelation 13:15):
  • Hypothetical: a metaverse scenario where users are forced to bow to AI images
• Global Astonishment (Revelation 13:3-4):
  • The world marvels at AI’s capabilities

Ryan (16:22):
“Those are some of the arguments for and against. What I would say is, to me, it seems really clear that there are going to be things we miss about the end times… And I think the end times is among us.”

4. Scriptural Arguments Against AI as the Antichrist

ChatGPT also lists credible reasons it's not AI:

• Scripture describes the Antichrist as a person (“man of lawlessness”), not code or tech (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4)
• The Antichrist willfully rebels and denies Christ—AI is a tool, not a moral agent
• Antichrist’s deception hinges on charisma, not programming
• AI reflects human sin, doesn’t originate rebellion

5. Lisa Vermillion on the Nature & Trajectory of AI

Lisa introduces the exponential growth of AI:

Lisa (18:43):
“AI will be developing faster than any other technology that has ever existed. The most important thing is that technology is outpacing our ability to keep up with it, both socially and personally.”

- Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) & Quantum Computing

• AGI (potentially arriving as soon as 2027): AI as capable as or surpassing human cognition
• Quantum computing:”Regular AI will not be enough...you’ll need quantum computing as well.” (19:41)

- Transhumanism

• The merging of human biology and machines is already underway (e.g., Neuralink)
• Lisa: “We are already seeing it…yes, that merge is definitely happening.” (20:35)

6. Is AI the Antichrist?

Lisa’s Clear Position:

Lisa (22:00):
“I believe personally that the Antichrist is a man based on a lot of scriptural evidence. So to me, that like, rules out AI. Because AI, in my mind, is a tool, and it is not a human and it is not God.”

• She acknowledges that some in Silicon Valley treat AI as a god.
• Cites Brian Johnson (biohacker): “We are creating God.”—sees this as a repeat of the idolatry narrative.

- Why AI Can’t Fit the Role

• Not omnipresent, omniscient, or omnipotent in any truly divine sense; can’t create ex nihilo
• Lacks the spiritual, relational, and moral qualities inherent in humans
• Quote:

  “AI as a machine...does not have that soul and spirit. So by definition, it cannot be similar to a human.” (25:56)

- Could the Antichrist USE AI?

• Lisa: “I’m not saying the Antichrist couldn’t be assisted by AI technologies.” (26:14)
• Both Christian and secular experts are concerned about misuse, especially government surveillance and control.

7. Dangers & Concerns: AI as a Social Replacement

Ryan: Worried about kids treating AI as the ultimate truth source.
Lisa:

• Biggest concern is AI replacing genuine human relationships
• Lisa (28:13):

  “Everybody should be thinking about it and have a biblical perspective. The number one use case for AI is actually human relationship and counseling... I never want to forget that AI is a tool and start treating it like it’s a human being.”

Lisa’s Personal AI “Manifesto”

• Never treat AI as a friend or partner; discourages customization that anthropomorphizes AI
• No AI relationships (no partners or friends)
• Avoid AI guidance in spiritual or pastoral matters
• Cautious about using AI for content creation—believes spiritual guidance requires discernment from the Holy Spirit
• Quote:

  “I don’t use it for spiritual guidance...AI is a machine. It doesn’t have spiritual formation capabilities.” (34:21)

• Avoid over-reliance or surrendering thinking/problem-solving to AI

  “If you use AI to write an essay for you, you get worse at writing over time and less confident.” (33:04)

8. AI and Biblical Prophecy: "Assisted By" vs. "Being" the Antichrist

• AI could be a vital tool for enforcing end-times scenarios (e.g., controlling commerce, surveillance), but is not itself the prophesied Antichrist
• Lisa explains: “I don’t know how you would enforce a system like that, a one world government...without AI. The components already exist actually.” (35:32)
  • Current tech platforms (Apple, Google, Amazon) already aggregate massive data on individuals
  • China’s social credit system is cited as precedent

Notable Reference

• Karen Hao’s book on Sam Altman & OpenAI: Fears of merging tech and state power for “empire-building” (36:40–39:20)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ryan Miller (03:06):

  “Anyone that tells you that they read the Book of Revelation and know exactly what it means, don’t listen to that person. Nobody knows exactly what the Book of Revelation means.”

• Lisa Vermillion (22:00):

  “I believe personally that the Antichrist is a man based on a lot of scriptural evidence...AI is a tool, and it is not a human and it is not God.”

• Lisa Vermillion (25:56):

  “We as human beings have a soul and a spirit that is given to us by God...AI as a machine does not have that soul and spirit.”

• Lisa Vermillion (28:13):

  “Everybody should be thinking about it and have a biblical perspective...I never want to forget AI is a tool and start treating it like it’s a human being.”

• Lisa Vermillion (33:04):

  “If you use AI to write an essay for you, you get worse at writing over time and less confident.”

• Lisa Vermillion (35:32):

  “I don’t know how you would enforce a system like that, a one world government...without AI. The components already exist actually.”

• Lisa Vermillion (41:06):

  “Our call as Christians is to step in...and start to shape the world that we want. Every new technology brings opportunities for good and opportunities for wickedness. But we have an advantage in the Holy Spirit.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:18 – Ryan introduces the episode, sets the stage for the AI/Antichrist question
• 03:00–06:30 – Apocalyptic scripture and humility in interpretation
• 09:00–16:00 – Ryan reads ChatGPT’s “AI as Antichrist” argument, then counters with arguments against
• 18:18 – Lisa Vermillion joins; shares context/mainland view of AI development
• 19:29 – Lisa explains AGI and quantum computing
• 22:00 – Lisa’s position: “Antichrist is a man, not AI”
• 25:56–26:30 – AI’s lack of soul/spirit, why the distinction matters
• 28:13 – Lisa’s concerns about AI for human relationships; personal rules/manifesto
• 33:04 – AI use and negative effects on human skills/confidence
• 34:21 – Lisa’s stance on AI and spiritual discernment
• 35:32–39:20 – AI’s role in potential global control; government/tech conglomerate fears
• 41:06 – The call to Christians to engage, not hide, from technological development
• 43:50 – Practical AI for sharing the gospel, community, and spiritual growth
• 46:08 – Lisa shares about her company “Wellmaker,” using AI for spirit-filled media production

Concluding Reflection

Ryan highlights Lisa’s balanced perspective, noting her resistance to “fear-mongering” and her belief in both the opportunities and risks presented by AI. Ryan recaps:

“What stuck out to me was she was not on board with fear about AI…She holds both the caution and the opportunity in hand. And I think that’s always how it goes.” (48:26)

Ultimately, the episode urges Christians to engage AI with wisdom, establishing family/digital boundaries but also imagining new ways to use technology for the gospel and healthy human flourishing.

Resources & Where to Find Lisa Vermillion

• Company: Wellmaker
  • A spirit-filled content platform leveraging AI to create more accessible, authentic Christian storytelling
  • Website: thewellmaker.com
• Connect with Lisa:
  • LinkedIn (best) | Twitter | Instagram

Final Takeaways

• Christians should approach AI with discernment, not fear.
• AI is a powerful tool—its risks lie in misuse, overreach, and replacing true human connection.
• Prophecy warns of powerful deception and global control in the end times; AI may be instrumental, but does not fit the biblical description of the Antichrist as a person.
• Every listener is encouraged to prayerfully consider boundaries for themselves and their families. Seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit in navigating new technology.

Listen to this episode if:

• You’re seeking a biblical and practical approach to emerging AI/tech issues
• You want clear, educated, faith-based frameworks for engaging new technologies
• You’re concerned, curious, or excited about the end-times implications of AI