Jesus People Podcast: Jay Stringer on The Journey to Understanding Our Behaviors

Episode 58 – February 9, 2026
Host: Ryan Miller
Guest: Jay Stringer

Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, Ryan Miller sits down with Jay Stringer—minister, therapist, and author of the acclaimed book Unwanted—to discuss the deeper reasons behind our behaviors, particularly unwanted or compulsive behaviors like pornography use. The conversation goes far beyond “lust management,” exploring the roots of desire, trauma, attachment, and the idea that our unwanted behaviors actually hold clues to our healing and growth. Jay shares personal stories, psychological insights, and theological reflections on how to understand and steward desire in a way that leads to personal transformation and deeper faith.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Unpacking the "Why" Behind Our Behaviors

• The Limits of Behavior Management
  • Many Christians approach change through “lust management” (accountability groups, internet monitoring), but these tactics often don’t lead to lasting change ([01:52]).
  • Jay notes: “When I've been having the same conversation with my accountability partner for 15 years, something isn't working.” ([05:23])
• Finding Meaning in Our Struggles
  • Rather than just fighting behaviors, it’s essential to ask what they reveal about us: “Embedded within the behavior that we're trying to get rid of are clues to our healing and growth.” ([06:33])

2. Personal Journey: From Secrecy to Healing

• Family Stories and Trauma
  • Jay shares the story of his grandmother rejecting his attempt to open up family history, illustrating inherited secrecy and the hurdles of shame ([03:29]).
• Understanding Sexual Struggles through Story
  • Example: Jay’s client realizes his present “ritual” for seeking out sex mirrored his childhood longing for attention. “It was always about the eyes... it's not random.” ([05:15])

3. Attachment, Trauma, and the Powerlessness Paradigm

• Attachment Needs
  • Children require being “seen, safe, soothed, and secure” (Dan Siegel). Where this is lacking, people look for substitutes ([11:28]).
  • “Not only was our parents not a place of soothing, they were actually the cause of our distress. And that will wreak havoc.” ([13:52])
• Power, Shame, & Pornography
  • Strict parenting, lack of purpose, and shame drive specific categories of porn use ([07:29]).
  • “One of the appeals to porn is not just lust. It’s also the issue of power… in the world of porn, I can get exactly what I want… I don’t have to feel powerless.” ([09:05])
  • “The more judgment and contempt you hold for yourself, the more that you will pursue behaviors that reinforce that judgment against you.” ([10:36])
• Cycle of Numbing
  • Unsoothed distress leads to numbing (porn, food, etc.), and chronic use brings about even more shame and isolation ([14:52], [26:26]).

4. Curiosity and the Kindness of God

• Biblical Invitations to Curiosity
  • God’s first questions after the fall—“Where are you?”—and to Hagar—“Where do you come from? Where are you going?”—reflect God’s kindness and curiosity, not condemnation ([15:56]).
• Reframing Repentance
  • “We need to kind of repent. We need to change our mind about what God’s voice sounds like.” ([17:30])
  • It’s the kindness of God that invites transformation.

5. Desire: Formation, Fragmentation, and Healing

• Desire’s Dual Nature
  • “Desire can turn you into the best version of yourself or the worst version of yourself.” ([20:56])
  • The conservative world often fears desire (it might lead to sin); the progressive world often normalizes it (“Eat, Pray, Love”). Neither disciples desire well.
• Childhood Roots of Desire
  • Jay’s own story with food and shame, and how desires for mastery or numbing trace back to childhood wounds ([21:05]).
  • “My gateway drug to porn was really that process of food.” ([22:13])
• Trauma Response: Fragmentation → Numbing → Isolation
  • “When you go through trauma, what happens… is you have fragmentation, numbing, and then eventual isolation.” ([25:36])
• How Desires Are Shaped
  • Even trivial things, like a detergent preference, can be externally “primed” ([27:55]).
  • Mimetic desire: we learn to want what we see others desiring ([42:40], [44:00]).

6. Exploring and Integrating Our Stories

• Healthy Approach to the Past
  • Processing past wounds is crucial, but therapy or introspection shouldn’t become self-absorbed or paralyzing ([31:09]).
  • “Most of us don’t know our traumas through our memories. We will experience our traumas through our reactions, actions.” ([32:27])
• Integration Over Stagnation
  • “Understanding my story… serves the process of joy and allows me to move forward…” ([34:45])
  • Living with “multiplicity of selves”—honoring our wounded parts while choosing to integrate them with the adult self.

7. Discernment and Ordering of Desires

• Desire as a Clue, Not a Verdict
  • “Get curious about why do you want what you want. So instead of indulging it, instead of shaming it... get curious.” ([42:40])
• Negative and Positive Roots
  • Negative and positive experiences both inform our current desires, for better or worse ([37:34]).
  • “Desire is responsible for all the best things in our life, but also all the shame and sin in our life… we suppress our desire and live with a level of depression to be able to contain that life force.” ([39:55])

8. Desire Within Christian Discipleship

• The Church’s Missed Opportunity
  • “If the God of the universe is full of desire… how are we not also part of creating more of that everywhere we go?... It’s so sad to me because desire could unlock so much in our life.” ([40:16])
• Authenticity, Belonging & Community
  • The tension: being our true self (authenticity) vs. fitting in (belonging).
  • The symphony metaphor: “The magic of a symphony is this fully developed, stunning violinist is able to play together… that’s a picture of the kingdom of God.” ([47:42])
• Narcissism as Absence of Self
  • “Clinically speaking, narcissism is not a fullness of self. It's an absence of self...” ([47:47])

9. Healing Community, Marriage, and Influence

• Influencing Others by Personal Change
  • “Whenever we make a unilateral decision to change, we influence the other person more than we would believe.” ([52:46])
  • “The envy that we bear through being a person of desire is meant to provoke.” ([53:45])
• The 4-Minute Mile Analogy
  • “Start breaking some 4 minute miles in your life. And that's going to influence them... that's going to disrupt them.” ([56:25])

10. Redefining Discipleship Through Desire

• Forming, Not Burying, Our Talents
  • “Desire are forms of talents, and most of us have buried our talents because we've buried our desires.” ([57:14])
• A Broader Cultural Mission
  • Jay’s new book, Desire, aims to open conversation for Christians and non-believers alike; desire could be “the apologetic we haven’t tapped.” ([60:18])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Futility of Lust Management
  “When I've been having the same conversation with my accountability partner for 15 years, something isn't working.” – Jay ([05:23])

• On Shame and Self-Sabotage:
  “The more judgment and contempt you hold for yourself, the more that you will pursue behaviors that reinforce that judgment against you.” – Jay ([10:36])

• Curiosity at the Center of Healing:
  “God’s voice is kind and is drawing us in his kindness through his questions. To be more honest about where we come from and where is it that we really want to go.” – Jay ([16:15])

• The Power of Desire:
  “Desire can turn you into the best version of yourself or the worst version of yourself. But there's been so much fear in that realm that really hasn't allowed us to really get through the full potential of what desire could be.” – Jay ([20:56])

• On the Church and Desire:
  “Christians should be known as people who love desire. It’s so sad to me because desire could unlock so much in our life.” – Jay ([40:16])

• Narcissism Redefined:
  “Clinically speaking, narcissism is not a fullness of self. It's an absence of self… I look to my success, I look to the amount of influence... and all of that is a reflection back to me of my worth.” – Jay ([47:47])

• Moving Forward by Integrating the Past:
  “Understanding my story… shows you what themes matter. But you always have to bring that sense of integration into your life of how do I move this story forward?” – Jay ([34:45])

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:23–07:28 | Jay’s Personal Story & Behind the Book
• 07:29–11:19 | What Drives Pornography Use & the Power of Shame
• 11:28–15:32 | Attachment Theory & Substitutes for Soothing
• 15:56–18:09 | The Kindness of God in Exploring Our Stories
• 20:35–26:26 | The Nature and Formation of Desire
• 27:55–29:48 | How External Influences Shape Our Wants
• 31:09–35:37 | Healthy vs. Unhealthy Processing of the Past
• 37:23–41:54 | Desire’s Role in Both Positive and Shameful Outcomes
• 42:40–45:18 | Getting Curious about Our Desires
• 47:18–52:27 | Authenticity, Belonging, and the Symphony of the Kingdom
• 52:46–55:50 | Changing Others by Changing Ourselves
• 57:14–62:16 | The Kingdom Potential of Discipled Desire

Final Reflections

Jay Stringer offers a fresh and redemptive perspective on unwanted behaviors and desire:

• Our temptations and struggles are not random but are deeply connected to our past wounds and unmet needs.
• True freedom and transformation come from curiosity, compassionate exploration, and integration—not just policing behavior or seeking to numb pain.
• Christians have the opportunity to lead and disciple culture in the realm of desire by refusing both shame and indulgence, and by forming desires toward God’s best and the flourishing of self and others.

Resources Mentioned

• Unwanted by Jay Stringer
• [Desire by Jay Stringer (Pre-order link to be included in show notes)]
• Share the Struggle Ministry

Episode closes with prayer for Jay, his family, the ministry, and for listeners to find healing and fullness by courageously exploring the story their desires are telling. ([59:37–62:16])

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