Masculinity, Meekness & Power in Weakness | The Jesus People Podcast Episode 37 | Jamie Carrington

Summary

Jesus People Podcast, Episode 37

Title: Masculinity, Meekness & Power in Weakness | Guest: Jamie Carrington
Host: Ryan Miller
Date: September 22, 2025

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Main Theme

This heartfelt episode explores the meaning of true masculinity and strength through the lens of faith, meekness, and dependence. Ryan Miller sits down with Jamie Carrington, a young Christian leader and influencer living with spinal muscular atrophy, to dive deep into themes of manhood, dependence, vulnerability, overcoming shame, spiritual maturity, and the ways God transforms weakness into power.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redefining Masculinity

• Physical Ability ≠ Manhood: Jamie challenges cultural stereotypes:

  “I don't think just because you're in a wheelchair and, you know, can't lift heavy weights... you're less of a man. I think that actually makes you more of a man, because what is the quality? Jesus said... I'm meek and lowly. And what is meekness? It's dependence.” – Jamie [00:00]

• Masculinity as Service and Perseverance:

  “What makes a man a man is looking out for others... providing not just financially, but spiritually, emotionally... persevering... tackling your struggles head on and not giving up.” – Jamie [49:10]

• True Model is Jesus, not Culture:
  Jamie points to Jesus as the ultimate masculine role model—spiritually strong, humble, and sacrificial.

  “True masculinity is spiritual. True masculinity is found in Christianity, and the perfect example we have of that is Jesus.” – Jamie [50:41]

• Host’s Affirmation:

  “You embody masculinity a million X more than the Andrew Tates of the world. What it means to be a man is to be like Jesus, who submitted his entire life to his father.” – Ryan [54:16]

2. The Power and Gift of Dependence

• Dependence Shaping Faith:
  Jamie reflects on how physical dependence has deepened his faith:

  “It's kind of giving me a very real idea and presentation of how God treats all of us. We're so dependent on him, or at least we should be... Even though we're scared he might put us in a position that might hurt us... we have to trust that process, that he's going to take care of us.” – Jamie [11:15]

• Learning to Ask for and Accept Help:
  Jamie explains the humility developed through needing assistance with basic tasks:

  “I can't feed myself, I can't bathe myself. I can't do the little things, like ask you to give me a drink. You have to be dependent... But I think with the right people, it doesn't feel like you’re being dependent. It feels like you're being served.” [09:24–10:49]

• Meekness Misunderstood:
  Ryan clarifies biblical meekness as strength under control, not weakness:

  “When Jesus says the meek will inherit the earth, that word is prowess, which means to tame a wild mustang... It's not weakness. It's readiness, gentleness, surrender.” [12:23]

3. The Battle with Pride, Control, and Self-Reliance

• Pride as Control, Not Just Boasting:

  “Pride isn't necessarily this loud... arrogant personality type. Pride is quiet control, where you try to hold on to your life. When Jesus says, those who try to do that will lose it, but those who lose their life will gain it.” – Ryan [17:07]

• Vulnerability and Emotional Honesty:
  Jamie argues for emotional health:

  “It's okay to cry sometimes... But Jesus wept. I had to learn it was okay to weep.” [15:28]

• Dependence in Relationships and the Church:
  Discussing marriage and community, both speakers highlight the dangers of self-sufficiency and the beauty of mutual support.

  “It's okay to reach out to friends, say, ‘Hey man, I'm struggling and I need help with this.’ It's okay to cry sometimes.” – Jamie [15:01]

4. Navigating Social Media, Fame, and Humility

• Temptations of Fame:
  Both share struggles with “views,” “likes,” and comparison as influencers.

  “So many people in the comments are like, you’re an angel. You’re God’s gift... and it makes me sad because I feel like a fraud.” – Jamie [22:46]

• Countering Vanity with Contentment:
  Jamie’s grounding practice:

  “Psalm 23... The Lord is my shepherd, I have all I need... Just thinking I don’t need anything else. If all of this disappeared... I’d be okay.” [23:00]

• Ryan’s Daily Success Metrics:
  1. Time alone with the Lord for pure communion, not content.
  2. Serving someone who can't give anything in return.

  “If I do those two things every day, my day has been successful.” – Ryan [25:18]

  • Notably, Jamie tests this in a lighthearted moment:

    “Well, you’re in luck, because you can serve me real quick. Can you take these glasses off me?” [29:32]

5. Testimony: Disability, Friendship, and Growth

• Upbringing with SMA:
  Diagnosed at age 1, Jamie describes a supportive family but major high school struggles with limited independence and fake friendships.

  “I thank God that I had the right parents to be able to give me the mindset that I needed to survive.” [07:13]

• Friendship & True Service:
  Close friends learned how to help Jamie with basic needs—an act of “David and Jonathan” type brotherhood.

  “He would be the one to... help me use the bathroom, shower me. He was a high schooler doing it.” [36:21]

6. Battle and Freedom from Pornography

• Vulnerability Online:
  Jamie openly discussed his struggles with lust on social media, reaching classmates and followers.

  “I would post videos talking about my struggle with lust with pornography, and my whole high school would see it... After I clicked post, it was like, oh, this is really weird... But I had people come up... It was so worth it.” [41:43]

• Path to Freedom:

  “Lots and lots and lots of prayer and a lot of fasting... Fasting is one of the most intimate ways to deepen your relationship with Christ, but it's also teaching yourself to say no.” [42:51]

  • Emphasizes ongoing battle and importance of accountability and spiritual practices:

    “For anybody who's still on that journey... don't expect the urge to go away... 300 days clean never went away, but it does get a whole lot easier to say no.” [43:57]

7. Deeper Wounds & the True Source of Addiction

• Seeking Roots, Not Surface Fixes:
  Ryan shares:

  “I was looking at porn not just because I was horny. I was medicating a wound... wondering if I was truly a man my whole life.” [45:56]

  • Encourages listeners to be curious about the deeper “why.”
  • “The opposite of addiction is connection. If you're wondering what your wound is... it's a connection wound.” [47:45]

8. Romantic Rejection, Loneliness, and Singleness

• Story of Heartbreak:
  Jamie tells a vivid story of unrequited love, his friend’s honesty, and how he processed rejection.

  “What if I wasn't in this wheelchair... What if I had my dad's genetics... That broke my heart. But so glad I experienced it and went through that. It gave me a thicker skin... I wouldn't change it.” [61:02–64:20]

• Marriage Fears & Contentment in Singleness:
  Jamie’s concern:

  “Is that a fear of yours that you won’t get married because of your disability?” – Ryan
  “Yeah. Yeah, it is... Love is not for everyone... There are people who God has made it clear to: you are not supposed to marry... If I'm lonely, at least I'll be lonely with Christ. And Christ was very lonely.” – Jamie [64:42–66:47]

9. Family, Sacrifice, and Reverse Roles

• Dad as Model of Godly Sacrifice:
  Jamie’s father quit his job to care for him—countercultural but deeply biblical sacrificial love.

  “My dad did not turn tail and run... He gave up a lot of his hobbies to be with me. He quit his job to be a stay at home dad and take care of me... I think in a way that's the more masculine thing to do.” [72:13–75:05]

• Redefining Provision:

  “Just because it says that a man needs to provide for his family, that it's just talking about financially. Your dad is providing for your family so many ways in so many more ways.” – Ryan [76:36]

10. Humor, Humanity, and Hope

• Lighthearted Banter:
  The episode isn’t all intensity—there’s playful teasing and camaraderie, especially around viral videos and future dreams (like Jamie wanting to meet Theo Von).

  “That's the quote of the podcast. You can't light your wheelchair on fire if you don't have a wheelchair.” – Ryan [78:16] “Theo, if we ever meet, I promise you I will let you drive my wheelchair. I will lay on the ground and let you drive my wheelchair.” – Jamie [80:41]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dependence & Meekness:

  “We're so dependent on him, or at least we should be... We have to trust that process, that he's going to take care of us.” – Jamie [11:15]

• Masculinity & Jesus:

  “What it means to be a man is to be like Jesus, who submitted his entire life to his master, to his Father. And that's what I see in you.” – Ryan [54:16]

• Vulnerability in Community:

  “I want you to know I'm not as good as you think I am. I don't want you to think you're just another number to me. But my flesh does that sometimes.” – Jamie [22:46]

• Freedom & Fasting:

  “Fasting...it's teaching yourself to say no... I never want to go back. Of course my flesh wants to...But for anybody on that journey...don't expect the urge to go away...it does get a whole lot easier to say no.” – Jamie [42:51–43:57]

• Singleness & Christlikeness:

  “If I'm lonely, at least I'll be lonely with Christ. And Christ was very lonely at times. So that's okay. In the end he'll just make me more like Christ. And that's a pleasure. It's a privilege, too.” – Jamie [66:47]

• About His Family:

  “My parents stuck together like glue... My dad did not turn tail and run like most... he cooks us dinner...he's taking us to school. He's helping me—doing what you wouldn't think dads do.” – Jamie [72:13–76:00] “Your whole family is this beautiful picture of sacrifice and what it looks like to walk into the kingdom of God.” – Ryan [76:49]

• On Viral Success:

  “You can't light your wheelchair on fire if you don't have one.” – Jamie [78:16]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:00 – Opening; Redefining masculinity, meekness, and dependence
• 04:58 – How Jamie views prayer for healing & the role of disability in his testimony
• 07:13 – Maturity through hardship & dependence; parental influence
• 11:15 – How dependence on others reveals God’s care, spiritual insight
• 14:42 – Meekness as kingdom power, not weakness
• 17:07 – Pride as control; humility in Christ
• 22:46 – Social media fame, view-chasing, and fighting against pride
• 25:18 – Success metrics: daily communion and serving the least
• 31:13 – Jamie’s childhood, diagnosis, and friendship stories
• 38:05 – Community, accountability, and overcoming lust
• 42:51 – Fasting and the path to long-term freedom
• 45:56 – Wounding, self-worth, and deeper motivation behind addiction
• 49:10 – Masulinity as servant leadership, not external traits
• 61:02–64:20 – Story of romantic heartbreak and building resilience
• 64:42–66:47 – Singleness, contentment, and Christ-like loneliness
• 72:13–76:00 – Family roles, sacrificial fatherhood, and provision
• 78:16 – “You can’t light your wheelchair on fire...” viral humor
• 80:41 – Theo Von challenge and closing banter
• 82:04 – Jamie’s calling: serve for a lifetime

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Tone and Atmosphere

The conversation is candid, warm, faith-filled, and often playful. Both Ryan and Jamie speak with humility, humor, and vulnerability. Insights are both practical and spiritually rich, accessible for listeners regardless of where they are in their faith journey.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a powerful testimony to the unexpected ways God repurposes weakness into strength, and how real masculinity is found not in autonomy or bravado, but in humble surrender, deep dependence, vulnerability, and serving others as Christ exemplified.

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Find Jamie Carrington:
Instagram, TikTok, YouTube – @jamiecarrington

Host:
Ryan Miller

Next Steps:
– Reflect on where you equate your worth with ability or appearance
– Consider your own areas of “quiet control” and dependence on God
– Reach out in community for accountability and share your struggles
– Remember: “The Lord is my shepherd, I have all I need.” (Psalm 23)

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Transcript

[A]

I don't think just because you're in a wheelchair and, you know, can't lift heavy weights and all that stuff that you're less of a man. I think that actually makes you more of a man, because what is the quality? Jesus said that was his heart. The only time Jesus described his heart was he says, I'm meek and lowly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what is meekness? It's dependence. Guys, welcome to the Jesus People podcast. So stoked today to have Jamie Carrington on the pod. Dude, it's been so fun hanging with you since you've been down here.

[B]

I appreciate it.

[A]

Yeah, man, it's.

[B]

So I flew in from Georgia, right? And Georgia's a very, like, hot, humid place. And I didn't realize that this was basically just another version of Georgia, but slightly hotter because you guys were saying, like, I think it was, like, 85 degrees this week or something like that. Like, it was like. I don't know how hot it was, dude.

[A]

I'm gonna check right now. There's no chance it's 85. I mean, today maybe because it's raining, but.

[B]

But it was, like, it was hot yesterday. Cause we were out and about, and everybody kept saying, oh, but this is cool weather.

[A]

You know, this is.

[B]

This is cool weather. You guys know, bro, every day in Georgia, this.

[A]

This is cool. Yeah. I think we're turning into fall. But yesterday was 100, and, like, that's normal. Here.

[B]

People are saying, that's cool.

[A]

Well, I will say this. If it gets in the 90s now, I'm acclimate. I've been here a year now, so I'm acclimated enough to have it be like, oh, this feels nice. I can actually go for a walk and not feel like I'm melting. And it's like 90.

[B]

So you guys are like a different breed down here, bro.

[A]

I came from San Diego. San Diego is the land of milk and honey. It is. If the Lord didn't call us here, I'd be back there.

[B]

It's like the second Garden of Eden. It's. It.

[A]

It really is. If you haven't been. Shoot. I need. I need, like, the city of San Diego to, like, I don't know, sponsor this ad or something like that. Because I'm just gonna hype up San Diego. It is. It is next level. And then the Lord goes, you're moving to D. All right. The best place to be is in the will of the Lord, I guess.

[B]

But, yeah, even if it's 100 degrees. Right? Right. As long as God told you To. It's great.

[A]

I mean, 100%.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I need to go to San Francisco, though. I'm sure it's a great place.

[A]

San Francisco is beautiful.

[B]

Are the people nice there?

[A]

Yes. That's okay. This is such a. Everyone, everyone outside of California thinks Californians are like, like these crazy, like blue haired lefties that are gonna like scream at you and like throw blood at you if you're like wearing something that's not, you know, like biodegradable or something. It's not true. Like, California's tight. Like, California is really cool and the people there are people and they're kind and it's, you know, whatever, like. But there is the weirdness when you start getting into the systems and the school system and all that stuff. I think that's partially why the Lord called us out. But.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Anyway, man, so much to talk about. I mean, we were chopping it up over coffee yesterday.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, hold that thought. We're saving it for the podcast.

[B]

Yeah. We just, we completely like, almost ran out of things to talk about.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

He was just like, save it, save it. Uh huh.

[A]

Yeah. I wouldn't let you. I wouldn't let you talk. It was probably an interesting coffee date for you. But.

[B]

But now we're here.

[A]

Now we're here and we walk into the building and we're at Trilogy Studios in Dallas, Texas. And the prayer person for the studio comes walking up and like, you know, sees Jamie and he's like, I don't want to tell us the story of what just happened because it's so nice.

[B]

Super charismatic, by the way, like, super high energy. And he comes up, he sees me and he's like, what's going on, my brother? How are you, man? What is your name? I tell him my name. I'm like, my name's Jamie. And he goes, jamie, you are going to have an amazing day. And I want you to know that one day he was. Let me go back a minute. He was like, jamie, you walked up in here with so much light and so much energy. And I kind of cut him off. I was like, well, I'm not walking anywhere, but, you know. And he had to, like, process it.

[A]

He didn't know what to make of it.

[B]

He didn't know what to make for. Like, he didn't know what to do for like two seconds. And then he started laughing.

[A]

Yeah, I was losing it.

[B]

I could tell I caught him off guard a bit, but he was super nice and stuff.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And he kind of prayed for Healing and stuff.

[A]

I wanted to ask you, when people go to pray for healing for you, how does that sit with you?

[B]

Well, I mean, I think people have all the right intentions in the world. Like, that's not a bad thing to pray for at all. But people can't understand my perspective of this is who I am. And I don't believe God gave me it, but I believe he allowed it to happen for a bigger reason. For a reason, like right now that we're sitting here.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't think this would happen if I was, you know, six foot five like my dad and able to chuck a baseball. You know what I mean?

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think who I am and the disability that I have is so important for my testimony, for my ministry, for other people's salvation. And I wouldn't want to get rid of that. Amen, dude.

[A]

And what's crazy is as your friend now I'm like, I wouldn't either. You know what I mean? Like, you know, Paul had the thorn in his flesh that the Lord didn't take away from him. He said, my grace is sufficient for you. My power is made perfect in weakness. And when I see you, I just sense like, power. I sense authority. I was telling you yesterday during coffee, I'm like, there's no way you're 18. There's no chance. Like, I'm not talking to an 18 year old. Do you get that a lot?

[B]

I do get that a lot. I got that a lot. I also get some people think I was a girl. I don't know where that came from. Like, one of the high school coaches talked to my friend and he was like, who's that girl you slept with? He was like, what? That's a dude. But I did that. And there's no way. You entertain a lot. So I do get that a lot.

[A]

What is that? Because, I mean, there's a maturity to you. I'm sure a lot of it comes from the way you had to grow up. But tell me more about that.

[B]

Well, I mean, I think anybody who's been thrown in hard circumstances, anyone who's been given a rough hand in life, you have to grow up pretty quick. I mean, you have to mature fast because the world's a whole lot mature than you are. And it will, I promise you, it will beat you down if you are not ready for it. And I had to be ready so quick, so quick, because between waking up like so many times a month at 5am for doctor's appointments, for back surgeries, for procedures, to help with my Disability. And then also just living with a disability as a kid, like, going to school and seeing everybody else do the things that you never could. You had to learn how to manage that, and that's hard. And you had to, like, I thank God that I had the right parents to be able to give me the mindset that I needed to survive.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

Because if I had parents that just said, it is what it is, if I just had parents that ignored that, if I had parents that told me to be strong and just leave it at that, I didn't know where I'd be.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Wow. Yeah. Even. Even yesterday, giving you sips of your drink and the way you asked me to give you sips of your drink, like it was. There wasn't any weirdness to it. It was just like, oh, yeah, sure. And then I was thinking about it later last night. I'm like, that's what it is. I think that's what makes Jamie different. That's what makes you have this anointing, is because you've had to learn to be dependent your whole life, and that's given you this anointing to now preach the gospel with the boldness that you preach it with, and without the fear, without the weirdness, without the trepidation. You're able to do that because you've learned dependence from a super young age. Would you agree with that, or can you say more about that?

[B]

No, I mean, I think 100%. I have to be more dependent, like, for everything. I can't feed myself, I can't bathe myself. I can't do the little things, like ask you to give me a drink. And it's not some weird alpha male power move, like, do this for me, of course. Even though it could be, I guess.

[A]

But feed you grapes, Jamie, they start feeding you grapes.

[B]

Fanning me. Yeah. I mean, you have to be dependent. And at times it can be a little scary because, like, what if, while this person's carrying me, what if I bump my arm? What if I move my body wrong and that kind of hurts? What if? So you have to kind of deal with that. You have to accept it. I struggle with a lot of anxiety from that. Like, I have a lot of. Kind of nervous tics, I guess you would call them, that. I do. Just because I worry about someone hurting me as they're lifting me or something like that. And I've gotten better about it, but it'll never really go away because it can be frustrating to not be able to do things the way you want. To do them. And you have to be so dependent on everybody for everything. But I think with the right people, it doesn't feel like you're being dependent. It feels like you're being served as long as you have the right people. And I was blessed enough to have the right people. Amen.

[A]

And how has that impacted your relationship with the Lord?

[B]

It's kind of giving me, like, a very real idea and real presentation of how God treats all of us. We're so dependent on him, or at least we should be. We should be dependent on him for the little things, for the big things, for the big moves. And we have to trust Him. Even though we're scared he might bump our arm or he might put us in a position that might hurt us or that we might feel uncomfortable in, we have to trust that. We have to trust that process, that he's going to take care of us. And I haven't even really thought about that until right now, But I just kind of see how it's like, wow, we all have to be dependent on God the same way. I'm dependent on every single person around me. And that is so cool that you bring that up now, because I didn't even think about that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's what I was. After our meeting yesterday, that's all I could think about is I was just like, wow. First I was like, wow, Lord. Like, what is. What makes Jamie like, of course, I know it's related to the disability, but I was trying to really drill down on, like, what makes you have this, like, anointing that he's given you. God's been. The word the Lord has over my life is meekness. And a lot of people think meekness is weakness. I hear it all the time. I hear it in TV shows. They'll describe someone who's weak as someone who's meek. And it couldn't be anything further away. Like, when Jesus says the meek will inherit the earth, that word is prowess, which means to tame a wild mustang. And so it's the process of taking this wild autonomous mustang and gentling it down into a meek war horse that's usable for the kingdom, that's usable to go to war, and that's usable to be partnered with Christ. And so that's why they inherit the earth, because they're the ones that can actually go. They're the ones who are willing to be sent. And I think oftentimes we fall into traps of sin when we're trying to live life on our own. And so I was processing that last night. I just think you have a ton of meekness and it comes across as like, power. When I see your social media videos, when I see you proclaiming the gospel, I just see, I see masculinity, I see power, I see meekness, I see all the things that I'm striving for in life. So that's why I wanted to have you on the podcast, mainly because I wanted to get to know you. Like, I could have done something, you know, we could have done something virtual, but I was like, I just want to meet Jamie because you're an inspiration to me and your faith and your walk with Jesus, and I think it's been forged by a life where you have been forced into dependence for every step of the way. You know, you even telling me about the flight over here, your mom having to carry you on the plane, like, as a man, to like, to lower yourself and to be dependent on the others around you and on the Lord. Like, you just, you just have so many reps of being dependent that I just want to, like, be around you and just like, glean from it because it's so evident when I hang out with you.

[B]

Yeah, I really appreciate you saying that first off, but I mean, I think we could all be a little more dependent, you know, a little more humble. And I think it's kind of like what Jesus said. She says, those who exalt themselves will be humbled and those who humble themselves will be exhausted. And I think so many people today normalize being prideful, being arrogant, being, I can do it my way. I don't need you. Yeah, I never did need to. And I think one of the most beautiful things about Christianity is the idea of it's never about you, it never was about you. It's about the people around you. And so what? Part of that means is being selfless, of course, and looking out for others, for their well being, but also just thinking, okay, it's okay to ask for help. It's okay to say, hey, I need this. It's okay to reach out to friends, say, hey, man, I'm struggling and I need help with this. It's okay to cry sometimes. You know, I don't like it when people say you're not, you know, you're not allowed to cry. Crying makes you less of a man. It's not masculine, but Jesus wept. I don't know what verse it is, but it's one of the shortest verses in the Bible, I think. It is.

[C]

It is, yeah.

[B]

And it just says Jesus wept.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I had to learn that it was okay to weep because you gotta let that out sometimes. But it was never about me. It was about God and the people around me. And I had to learn how to accept that and how to be meek and how to be humble. I was just kind of thrown to the wolves, you know? So I had to learn that I wasn't gonna fend off the wolves myself. Somebody else had to. It's so beautiful.

[A]

It is so beautiful. What I'm hearing you say is that pride isn't necessarily this loud, boisterous, arrogant personality type. Pride is quiet control, where you try to hold on to your life. When Jesus says, those who try to do that will lose it, but those who lose their life will gain it. And you are a living, breathing example of someone who has had to learn to lose their life every single day.

[B]

Yeah. And like what you were saying about quiet control, I think that happens so much, especially what I see in, like, marriages and stuff nowadays. Just want to clarify. I'm 18 and I've never been married. Just take what I say with a grain of salt. But what I see. I heard a pastor say this, Alex Wilson, one of my favorites. He said the reason that God made Eve from Adam's rib was because his rib was at his side. And we are meant to walk side by side in the holy covenant of marriage. And I think nowadays people don't want to walk side by side. They want to start running in front of the other person.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

They don't want to wait for the other person to catch up.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think a lot of people make marriage about power, control at times, kind of dominance, kind of like just this really weird, toxic dynamic at times. It's not a partnership. There's no true biblical leadership going on. What there is is there's toxic control, body control, like you were saying.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that's leading to a lot of high divorce rates that we're seeing right now.

[A]

Totally.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

When I'm a jerk to my wife, it's not when things are going well. It's the moments where the kids are all screaming and I'm tired from a long day of work, and I don't feel like she really saw what I put in to. I wasn't being appreciated.

[B]

Me, me, me.

[A]

And it makes me think of the verse in James where it says, if you love those who love you, what more are you doing than the Pharisees? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? And I think Learning to become selfless in the moments where you don't feel understood, you don't feel in control, you don't feel powerful, you don't feel competent, you don't feel lovable. I think that's the calling to the Christian is to make yourself small, to make yourself humble, to become a servant of all, to think less of yourself. You know, Like, I think pride is just thinking about yourself a lot. And now we have these little devices here, these little selfie machines where we're just obsessed with ourselves. We're just constantly, like, we have pages dedicated to ourselves. And you and I are social media influencers. And we were talking about this yesterday. It's probably one of those things where I was like, stop, stop. We're going to save for tomorrow. Yeah. Because it's so interesting. Like, I've noticed.

[B]

There'S.

[A]

There's this. There is a common thread between a lot of the people that I think are doing Christian social media and are doing it in a pure way. They're pure, and it's. They have had circumstances in their life that have chopped at that need to be seen or that pride or that selfish ambition. It's not to say we're, like, perfect and we've, like, arrived. Like, we still struggle. Like, I even remember you reaching out to me. This was probably six months ago. You reached out. You did. You reached out to me and you. I think you texted me and you said, hey, I'm struggling with caring so much about views.

[B]

Oh, I did. That's right. I did. Now I remember that you and.

[A]

And I remember going to my wife. Yeah. Pray for me. I'm struggling with caring about views. And I remember going to my wife earlier that day and just being like, I just don't think I'm reaching as many people anymore. And, like, struggling with the views. And I'm, like, right there with you, bro. Like, I wish, but it's. It's like the Lord, I think he will. He will get the foundation of your life set before you launch. And I think in many ways, like, to be able to admit this is what we're struggling with and then to address it in prayer. But how have you dealt with that? Because obviously, like, we didn't get to have a long conversation about it. But how have you dealt with kind of the pressures of social media and the temptations towards pride and all that? I mean, because you reach a lot of people, dude. You reach a lot of people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is amazing. It's epic. But how do you deal with all that?

[B]

It's a huge blessing to be able to do that and be able to preach to the masses like that. But when the views start coming in, when the likes start coming in, when revenue starts coming in, that's when your brain starts looking at the wrong things. And mine does it all the time. And so many people in the comments are like, you're an angel. You're God's gift sex to us. And it makes me sad because I feel like a fraud.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I feel like I'm not as good as you think I am.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I don't want you to think that you're just another number to me. But my flesh does that sometimes. And it's this constant battle between my spirit and my flesh. And the way I have to combat that in a way that I've really been just fighting against that is Psalm 23, specifically. The Lord is my shepherd, I have all I need. And repeating that just over and over again. The Lord is my shepherd, I have all I need. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. Just thinking about how I don't need anything else. I know that if all of this, if all the cameras, if all the lights, if you disappeared right now and I was left with zero following and I was just. If I was just who I was before again, I'd be okay. I'd be fine. Because I know that God is bigger than all of that, than all of this. And so for me, it's about contentment and just being okay with what you have. Because I think when you have desires, desire is just a contract you make with yourself to be unhappy until you get what you want. And I think that's such a dangerous path and such a dangerous contract that we sign all the time. And I don't want to sign that contract. I want to be happy with what I have now. Even though my flesh may desire things, my spirit doesn't want that. And so it's just like an everyday battle, pretty much like everything else. Just every day.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

How do you deal with it? I mean, what do you do?

[A]

Yeah, I've. I. I've really struggled with social media. Like, I accidentally became an influencer. You know, this was not my intention.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I've found myself at times getting sucked into the negative things of social media, which is caring about the likes and the views and the comparison. I think comparison is the hardest thing. And so I have a rule for every day, or I have a. I have a success metric for every day. I have two success Metrics. If I do these two things every day, I'm successful. Number one, did I spend time alone with the Lord and in a way where I'm not doing it to get something, I'm not trying to hear from him so I can make content, right? So I'm just with Him. I'm just enjoying Him. The second thing is that I serve someone who couldn't do anything for me. So, like, let's say I went and served you right now. It wouldn't count because you're on this podcast with me. There's an exchange of value. I want to find the least of these who have nothing to give me in return. Did I serve them? And if I do those two things, my day has been successful. And what I've found, because I'm not perfect at this. But when I do those two things every day, everything else is added to my day that I needed to get done. And it's like that scripture, Matthew 6:33, but seek first the kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. And so I found if I seek his kingdom, which is what it's his rule and his reign and his presence in my life. So if I'm going after his heart in the quiet place, if I'm just spending time with him, not to get something from him, or not to, you know, get a word so that I can communicate it, if I'm just with him and just enjoying him, the dividend of that is so much sweeter than anything else in my day. It's the most precious part of my day. And then the second most precious part of my day is then out of an overflow of experiencing his love, having him pour into me, then I go serve the least of these and the ones who have nothing to offer me in return. And so I've just said, that's my life. This is going to be for the rest of my life. My goal for every single day is those two things. And I've found that I think sometimes we try to combat the negative things in our life, like, oh, just don't look at porn, don't look at porn. Don't look boring. Don't care about the views. Don't care about the views. But it's like, no, no, Jesus is over here saying that, no, look at me. Keep your eyes on me. Keep your eyes fixed on me. Seek first the kingdom, which is me, and all these things will be added to you. Everything's going to fall in the line. And I think sometimes we make the Christian Life really complex. And we're like, well, I can't do this. I can't do this. I have to do this. I have to read my Bible. I have to have a quiet time for this long. I have to be praying for this long. I have to do all these little things. And that's religion. I think Jesus is saying, just commune with me. Just commune with me. And then in our case, before I communicate to a public audience, I need to commune in the secret place with Jesus. And when I do that, it's authentic. I'm not trying to go viral. I'm not trying to, I don't know, drum up some, you know, cutesy video. I'm just enjoying him. And then it flows. And he'll give me things to say. He'll give me words if I'm truly with him. And so I think focusing on the positive, you know, in baseball, so I was a baseball player, pitchers, it's called finding your sight. So, like, if your mechanics are right, basically your. Your. Your arm will follow where your eyes are. And so if you want to throw a fastball on the inside corner, your eyes need to be sighted on that inside corner. So it's target fixation. You're looking at the inside corner. I think so many Christians don't know where they're heading. They don't. They don't have a goal. They don't. They don't know, like, what do I do in this life? And they're like, yes, I love Jesus. Yes, I want to encounter his grace and his holy spirit, and I want to serve the least of these. And I want to help people, and I want to do all the Christian things. But if you're not actually sitting down and going, what are the most important things of my day? If you don't have the target fixation to be like, I want to throw that fastball right there. And when you aim small, you miss small. And so for me, I need to aim small at those two things. Communing with him daily, just being in a secret place with him with no agenda. And then number two is I need to serve someone that can't give anything to me me in return. So that's how I combat it.

[B]

Well, you're in luck, because you can serve me real quick. Can you take these glasses off me?

[A]

I got you, dude. I got you.

[B]

You can serve me real quick. There you go. I can't give anything back to you. Oh, can you take them off?

[A]

Oh, take them off.

[B]

Yeah, just put them in my shirt. Gotcha. We're right there. I can't give anything to you. So there you go. But you know, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right about that. And just being able to keep your eyes on Jesus, you know, being able to keep your eyes on Jesus is so important. And if your eyes are looking at the wrong things, if you're not dialed in on what you should be dialed in on, you're not gonna be able to perform how you should.

[A]

Amen. Guys, I wanna take a minute and I wanna tell you about a ministry that I'm personally passionate about, one that my family personally support. It's called Global Christian Relief. You may not know this, but there are more persecuted Christians around the world right now than ever before in human history. And this ministry, Global Christian Relief, is running to their aid. They're providing shelter, they're providing food, they're providing relief in multiple different ways. And you can be a part of that. You can help serve the persecuted church because Jesus said that they unbelievers will know him by our love for each other and we are family with them. So click the link in the show notes, check out Global Christian Relief and become a partner. Well, you and I just went straight into preaching, but let's give a little backstory.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So, yeah, take me through your life. Take me through, like your upbringing. You were diagnosed, what's the name of.

[B]

Spinal muscular atrophy, or SMA type 2. And I was diagnosed at the age of one and such a hard time for my family. Parents didn't know how long I'd live. Doctors said it wouldn't be long. We were just. They were very confused. Our parents were. Her family was. And I mean, what do you do when you're son is diagnosed with such a severe disability? Yeah, you know, they first started noticing it when I was a baby. And I couldn't sit up right, for very long. Like I would just kind of fall over and I could only army crawl. I never like walked around or anything like that. And so they were obviously heartbroken that I wasn't gonna be able to do these things that a child should get to do. Right. I mean, shouldn't a child be able to go outside and play baseball? Shouldn't a child be able to go out and get dirty in the mud and in the woods and a child be able to break their arm on a trampoline? I broke my arm in a bouncy house, so I didn't have to walk for that experience. But, you know, that's hard to accept that I can't imagine what that's like as a parent. But the way I grew up about it, the way that I was raised, the mindset I was raised to have was just, you can be sad for a little bit, and you can, you know, go to sad town and think about, you know, the situation you're in, but you can't stay there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, you can't unpack your bags and hang out. You have to leave when it's time to leave and get back on track. And that's what I had to learn to do, was say, okay, it's sad right now. It's okay to feel that way, but I can't stay here. And I grew up in school. I think a lot of the kids were very accepting of that. Like, I never experienced bullying or anything like that.

[A]

Praise God.

[B]

Yeah. Super grateful about that, because I know there's so many kids out there who did go through that and how it's had such a terrible impact on their life. But I. You know, it wasn't until high school that I think it started to get really hard. Like, it wasn't until that point where the disability and the. The reality of what I was in, the circumstances I was in, it didn't really hit me until then. And it didn't hit me that my future career options were limited. It didn't hit me that most of the people in my circle, you kind of consider them like fake friends, friends that were kind of take pity on you. So that's kind of why they would speak to you and act so much nicer than they would the normal kids, you know?

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And I think, like, early high school, like, you know, freshman year, that's kind of when it all just, bam. Hits you like a truck. And high school is hard for anybody. I mean, I'm sure you know this, so it only makes it harder when you're in a wheelchair and you weigh 60 pounds. So I was thankful enough to have a good, like, three friends that I could count on. One of them's in boot camp right now, and he was. Even though at some times we didn't always see eye to eye on something, he would always just be there for me and accept me. And he was, like, a perfect example of servitude. He would be the one to. He was the first one of my friends to learn how to help me use the bathroom, shower me, all of these things. He was a high schooler doing it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's beautiful.

[B]

So beautiful. Such a good dude. And my other friend who's always been There since day one. He's in college right now, and he learned to lift me as well. He didn't get to that other stuff, even though he probably could have. He's a little bit more germophobic and stuff, but, man, I had some good people to count on, and I'm so thankful for that. But high school stuff, it was tough. I mean. Yeah.

[A]

And, I mean, when did you graduate?

[B]

This year.

[A]

So. Yeah. You're just out of it.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Wow, man. Shoot, dude. Well, I. That's so moving about your friend. Did he offer to do that? Because, I mean, that's a. I think sometimes the most helpful things people don't intuitively know to ask to offer, you know, like, hey, can I learn how to bathe you?

[B]

And. Yeah, he was always willing and ready to do that. And he. He was like, how do I do this properly or show me how to do it? And, you know, all my friends were like that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was so cool. Like, it literally felt like David and Jonathan, you know, just that brotherly love and that brotherly affection. I mean, that's a gift from God.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, the book of Ecclesiastes said, there's no greater pleasure to enjoy life than to eat, drink, to laugh with the people around you.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And, like, man, I was able to experience that with the people God placed in my life, and they were able to help me get through that point. Like, the friend that's, you know, in boot camp right now, he was the one to help me. We helped each other get through lust. He was the person I would talk about it with. I'm calling him all the time. And we're both 300 days clean right now.

[A]

Let's go, dude.

[B]

And there was, like, an accountability thing that we had.

[A]

How did you originally find pornography?

[B]

I found it. I don't know. I guess I just kind of like. I guess I was just kind of curious. And then I remember when I watched it for the first time, I felt sick in my stomach. And so I closed it out. And it was really weird because the next day I went right back to it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I didn't feel as sick anymore. Kind of like. I mean, I've never smoked, but kind of like where people see how it's like smoking a cigarette for the first time.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Like, you smoke it, you get sick, you don't like it, and then you just do it again.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But as a dog returns to his vomit.

[B]

Right, right. Same thing. So I did that, and then that was like a five year battle that went on for. And it took so much from me. I hated it.

[A]

So you got addicted to pornography at 13?

[B]

I think so, yeah.

[A]

And you were walking with the Lord throughout this time?

[B]

Yeah, Yeah.

[A]

I think that was about the age for me, too. I think maybe. Yeah. Around 14.

[B]

Well, a lot of people. I mean, so many people are shown to it at a much younger age.

[A]

Oh. The Average age is 10.

[B]

Yeah. How terrible is that?

[A]

It's awful.

[B]

Yeah. And it's like, I'm at least thankful that it didn't happen that early on. Mm. But just kinda after that, like, it messed up my brain. Like, I wasn't able to, like, look at people properly, look at women properly. Like, I wasn't able to view people as people and people were objects. Mm. And it's already hard for, like, a hormonal teenager. Like, I think it's much easier for a grown man to quit pornography than a hormonal teenager.

[A]

100%.

[B]

But still, it's like, man, your hormones are all over the place. Your brain is all over the place. And I think because of those hormones, because of all that dopamine, that's how teenagers get addicted.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And it's not just men either. It's a whole bunch of women and even people who are disabled. A lot of people just didn't think that was something that could happen for people like me, but it was. And I was very vocal about that. Like, I would post videos talking about my struggle with less with pornography, and my whole high school would see it. Wow. I knew that before I posted. Like, I knew that would happen. But after I clicked post, it was like, oh, this is really weird.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Now everybody knows what I'm doing. You know what I mean?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But was that helpful to bring it into the light?

[B]

Yeah. I had people come up, and one of them was like, I really, really appreciate what you said about lust. And it really helped me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was like, it was worth it.

[A]

100%.

[B]

It was so worth it.

[A]

And then how'd you get clean?

[B]

Lots and lots and lots of prayer and a lot of fasting. Fasting is one of. I urge every Christian brother or sister to fast, because what fasting is, it's one of the most intimate ways to deepen your relationship with Christ, but it's also teaching yourself to say no. And I had to teach myself how to say no constantly. But part of the reason that I was able to quit was also, like, I didn't want to mess up something in the future. I didn't want people Finding out that I didn't want finding out. I didn't want to put something on the line that I wouldn't want to lose. So I realized that it's better to quit now than to be put in a position where you have to quit when you have to quit, because everything is counting on it.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And it was very hard, but it was so worth it. I never want to go back. Of course my flesh wants to. I mean, my flesh wants to go back almost every single day. Like I think people think. I think people have this idea that the urge will just, poof, disappears, gone. It'll never come back. But I think that it'll always be there, you know? Cause, I mean, you have a sex drive. It's natural, but you have to control it and tame it. And so for anybody who's still on that journey, for anybody who's, you know, trying to quit, don't expect the urge to go away. It's not 300 days clean never went away, but it does get a whole lot easier to say no.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that entirely. And I agree with your sentiment that it's harder when you're a hormonal teenager.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was put in. Well, I shouldn't say I was put in a position. I remember being like, I can't get married right now. As a Christian man who was in ministry struggling with pornography, I am not in a position to get married. And I'm getting close to marriage age. And I was like, this needs to lock in. And there was a guy who told the story, I think, a few times on this podcast. But I was coaching baseball at Biola university. I was 25, and this guy came to speak to the Biola team and offer this, like, freedom group.

[B]

And.

[A]

It was for the, you know, it was for the students. Right. It wasn't for the coaches. But I was like, I'm showing up because I remember being like, I have to break free from this. And I remember it was the first time something switched in my brain from thinking like, oh, you just lack self control to like, oh, no, you're medicating something with the pornography. Like, it's a mech. It's a. It's a medication strategy. That's a bad one. You know, there's. There's healthy ways to cope, and there's unhealthy coping mechanisms. And this is just a really unhealthy coping mechanism. And I remember having to dive into, like, why do I actually look at the porn? And the reality was I was looking at the Porn not just because I was horny. I was looking at the porn because I was medicating wound of wondering if I was truly a man my whole life. And being told in, you know, maybe not in these exact words, but being told in many ways that, you know, you're not a man. And you know, I was, I was a tiny kid growing up all the way, like almost up until college, and not super cool and not, you know, like a little bit odd. And, and it was a coping mechanism for me to feel like a real man. And once I was able to identify the wound, I was able to heal from the symptom or heal the wound which then got rid of the symptom, which the symptom was looking at the pornography. The wound was, I don't feel like a man. And I'm going to this medication strategy to this porn that tells me that I'm a man. And I think a lot of men aren't curious enough and women aren't curious enough because you're right, the statistics of women looking at porn is skyrocketing right now. But I don't think people are curious enough to actually ask the question, like, why, why am I doing this? And not just like, oh, I just need a fix after the day or I need a release like, no, no, no. There's a deeper reason, deeper reason why.

[B]

You'Re looking at it with any addiction.

[A]

With any addiction, yeah. Yes. The opposite of addiction is connection. And I think oftentimes if you're wondering like, I wonder what my thing is. I wonder what my wound is. It's a connection wound. So where did you lack connection that you're now looking for that fabricated sense of connection in the pornography? And that'll kind of give you your answer. Another good question asks is like, what are you in the search bar? Like, like very literally, like, what are you typing in? That's going to tell you if you get curious enough about that, that's going to tell you why. That's going to tell you the deeper why. Yeah, but let's, let's talk about manhood a little bit. I saw a post you made about masculinity that shook me and I think it went like very viral. And I think it's because people, they have this, this picture of masculinity and manhood that is like the six foot five Jack dude, you know, and that's not you. And so what has happened? What has your perspective of masculinity? Like, what is manhood to you?

[B]

I think that there's A lot of misconception about it for sure. I mean, if somebody was to take a picture of us sitting here right now, no context, you don't know who we are, nothing. You showed that picture, someone said, who do you think is more masculine right here? I think most people would say you. I mean, how tall are you?

[A]

Six foot?

[B]

Okay, yeah, you're pretty tall. I'm like four foot. So there's a big difference here. But I believe that what makes a man a man is looking out for others. Number one, that's the biggest thing is providing not just financially, but spiritually, emotionally, but also leadership and persevering. Like being able to persevere, being able to go beyond your hardship, being able to be more. Being able to be defined by more than what the world says about you, than what the enemy says about you, and then being able to have the ability to lead, being able to tackle your struggles head on and not giving up. And I don't think that masculinity is sleeping with as many women as you possibly can. I don't think masculinity is making as much money as you possibly can, owning as many cars as you can. I don't think masculinity is worldly. I think masculinity is spiritual. True masculinity is found in Christianity, and the perfect example we have of that is Jesus. Now, was Jesus, Did Jesus look like ryan? Was he 6 foot tall and have huge muscles? Probably not. Maybe. But it's likely that he didn't have a gym to go to like you do every day. It's very likely that he looked like an average Joe Schmo. You know, he did not look like the Son of God, King of Kings, but he was able to provide spiritually, emotionally, spiritually, financially. He was able to provide greater treasures than anything you and I could ever come up with. So when I think of masculinity, I don't think of these alpha male creators as alpha male influencers or, you know, the people in the world who tell you how to be masculine. I think of the man who embodied what masculinity really is. But I did struggle with that for a long while, like, asking myself, am I masculine? Like, am I really a man? Am I? You know, am I feminine? Am I? That's all I could think about, like, does my disability make me less of a man? And I was kind of. That was difficult. And that was another high school thing. How would, do I look less masculine to women? That was another thing. Do I look like, does my body come off as less masculine. So those are the things that the world was telling me. And I was always turning an ear towards that. But when I turned the ear towards Christ and what God had to say, it was completely different. It was a whole other story because he was saying, no, I made you masculine, all your weakness. I made you something that the world can't understand because they don't know me, they don't know my words and kind of have to accept people can't understand what's going on on the inside because they're on the outside. But yeah, that was something that I struggled with a lot.

[A]

Guys, I want to stop and tell you about my ministry, share the struggle. I have for so long thought that the mental health crisis is the miss moment of our decade. And if you're needing support for your anxiety or your trauma or your marriage or relationships, we have coaches available that will pray with you, that'll do inner healing prayer with you, that'll go to the scriptures and then provide the best in class therapeutic principles to help you move forward in whatever God has for you. So check that out. We also have courses. You can go to sharethestruggle.org and get the relief you're needing. I don't think you're alone in that, dude. I don't think just because you're in a wheelchair and, you know, can't lift heavy weights and all that stuff that you're less of a man. I think that actually makes you more of a man because what is the quality? Jesus said that was his heart. The only time Jesus described his heart was he says, I'm meek and lowly. And what is meekness? It's dependence. It's dependence on him. And you are a picture of dependence. So you embody masculinity a million X more than the Andrew Tates of the world. You embody masculinity a million X more than any of the social media influencer bodybuilders, whoever, who are talking about this is what it means to be a man. What it means to be a man is to be like Jesus, who submitted his entire life to his master, to his father. And that's what I see in you. I just see a picture of it. You are just the picture of masculinity according to the kingdom of God, in my opinion.

[B]

So the best compliment ever. Thank you. I mean, it's, you know, it is hard to convince yourself that as someone. It's hard to realize that. Not convince yourself. It's hard to realize that. Cause, you know, the world Is screaming in your ear so much. And for me, like, I was always, like, still am, kind of. But I always wanted, like, a relationship, like, a romantic one.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And that was. It was frustrating to have friends who seemed, on the outside, more masculine than you in a world that only has eyes for the outside in most circumstances. So I had to learn quick that it was about the inside. And some people are going to look on the inside more than others.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You have to find those people. And they're kind of few and far between.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The dating pool is kind of weird right now, I think.

[C]

Tell me more.

[B]

I mean, when did you get married?

[A]

Got married in 2016.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, since then, I would say, obviously. Okay. So when were you in high school?

[A]

Graduated high school, 2008. I'm old.

[B]

Gosh, you're old.

[A]

I know I'm old.

[B]

That was my first thought, too. This guy's old.

[A]

All of you young Christian influencers that I get to hang out with, you guys keep me young.

[B]

I mean. No, I'm just kidding. You look great. Thanks, bro. Thanks.

[A]

Yeah. Keep it coming.

[B]

Yeah. So, like. So I'm gonna tell you a story. Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Perfect example of this. And there's a moral of the story here. But this was, like, my first, like, real heartbreak, I guess. It was in my sophomore year of high school. So I had this chemistry class with my friend. Same one who's in boot camp right now. And I sat next to this girl, and I had fat crush on this girl. I thought she was super pretty. I liked her personality. We would talk. There were days where I knew she liked this donut spot. So before dad would take me to school, I'd be like, I might get her a donut today. But I never did. Cause I didn't want to come off too strong. But I think girls can sniff out if you like them or not pretty easily.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think she knew.

[A]

They're smarter than we are.

[B]

Yeah. Way smarter. We're idiots. This is like two cavemen talking right now.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

Fire. So I'm talking to this girl, like, all year long. And my friend, he sat in the very back of the class. We were separate, but he was my hype man. So after school, I'd come back, I would tell him about our interaction. And we'd be sitting on Fortnite, playing together, and he would go, bro, you've got that in the bag, man. You've got it secured. And I was like, you think so, dude? And he was like, yeah, I know. So Blind leading the blind. It was like, too. It was like there was a pothole and a blind person was trying to lead him away from the pothole. They just fell in it. It was terrible.

[A]

So what happened?

[B]

Well, this thing. So she had a boyfriend all year. I was like, he didn't even go to the same school. I was like, surely, I'll have a shot. Summer was just running right around the corner, like a week away from summer break. And she broke up with him.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

Yeah, that's exactly what I was fired up. Yeah, I was pumped. I was like, okay, gotta make a move, right? So I was probably, like, literally a day or two away from doing something. Yeah, I was probably just gonna ask her to hang out or something.

[A]

You should have gone for the donuts, dude.

[B]

I know, I know. If I can go back in time, I don't know.

[A]

She brought some donuts.

[B]

No, no. She probably wasn't good for me, now that I'm thinking about it. But I. So I'm sitting in my room, I remember, and I get a call from that same friend, my hype man. And so we talk all the time. So it's, you know, normal for him to call me. So I answer, and I can tell his voice is, like, kind of troubled a bit. And he goes, hey, man, what are you doing? I'm just sitting here. What's up? You sound, like, concerned. Is everything all right? And he goes, not really, man. I just. I need you to prepare yourself for what I'm about to say.

[A]

Did he say, I need you to sit down for this?

[B]

I think. I don't know. If he did, it would make perfect sense for him to.

[A]

That prayer guy probably would have. The prayer guy earlier would have told you, you need to sit down for this.

[B]

He probably would have. I would have laughed. It would have been funny. All right. He says, I need you to brace yourself. And I was like, what could this day possibly say? So I was like, yeah, man, just tell me. And he was like, the girl you like, the girl you've been crushing on all year, she slid into my DMs, like, today and that day at school. It was literally that evening. He called me after school that day. We were doing a presentation. I remember he had this really tight black shirt he had on, and he looked really good, and he works out a lot. And so I sat there, I just kind of, like. I said, thank you for telling me, and I hung up. And I had a good cry after that because all I could think about was, what if I Wasn't in this wheelchair. What if I had my dad's genetics, 6 foot 5? What if I was able to go to the gym? What if I was able to look different? And that broke my heart. It devastated me because me and my friend are so similar. People ask if we're brothers, we're so similar mentally. And he didn't even speak with her all year. Like, I sat right next to her and he was in the very back. And I was just slaving away trying to talk to this girl all year.

[A]

I mean, you could have brought donuts.

[B]

You don't have to rub it in, Ryan. Guys, I'm sorry, bro, but it just broke my heart, dude. And I'm glad I experienced that because it taught me to accept some people just aren't gonna find you attractive. You can check every mental box possible. Check, check, check, check. But if you do not check the box of being attractive to someone. Being attractive is subjective, by the way. If someone's not physically attracted to you, then it's not gonna work. And that's okay. It's fine. You know, I like mint chocolate chip ice cream. Not everybody does, but just because you might not like it, I still love it. And it doesn't change the fact that I like mint chocolate chip ice cream. So was it hard? Yeah, absolutely. Did it suck? Yes. But so glad I experienced it and went through that.

[C]

Why?

[B]

Just cause it gave me a thicker skin. Just. I wouldn't change it, you know, it allows me to handle rejection in a better way and just say, all right, that's cool, you know?

[A]

Is that a fear of yours that you won't get married because of your disability?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, it is. You know, when I think of being married, I think about being able to serve someone. That's what I want to do, is just serve somebody. Because that's what marriage is about, right? Servitude. And I want to be a father. I want to be a good father like my father. But, you know, that does concern me sometimes. But I think that's just my brain messing with me. There's so many good examples of people who are just like me, who have beautiful families. But I wanna make it clear, love is not for everyone. I think Disney can be part of the blame for this. But the world in general will tell you everyone has somebody. And Paul never says that. Paul says some of you aren't gonna get married. Hard truth, but that's in the Bible. It's not supposed to make you feel good all the time. And you have people who God has made it clear to. That you are not supposed to marry. And they're just trying to fit this puzzle piece into where they think it should go, but it just does not fit. And they're wasting time and they're wasting energy. And it's a hard truth. It's a very big pill to swallow, but it's gotta happen.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And that sucks. I hope I'm not that person, you know?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But if I am, I know that it would be hard to accept that. But if I'm lonely, at least I'll be lonely with Christ. And Christ was very lonely. So lonely at times. So that's okay. Because I think in the end he'll just make me more like Christ. And that's a pleasure. It's a privilege, too.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

I gotta chew on that for a minute, man.

[B]

Yeah. They should make a movie about that. Right? I can very easily see that being like, the plot to a movie.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

There's. Gosh, there's a movie. I'm totally blanking on the name of it. It's about a conscientious objector during World War II where he's in Germany, and he basically says, I don't believe in the direction of the Nazi party. And as a Christian, I can't stand for this, so I'm not going to join the Army. And they end up killing him for it. And then the movie ends. And I remember my mentor telling me about this movie, and he's like, I went to see it with a bunch of pastors, and we walked out of the movie theater, and the pastors start bashing the movie. There was no resolution. Like, what? Like, how is that a good movie? That didn't. And my mentor is like, mind blown. He's like, did you not see the point of the movie? Yeah, the movie was not like. The whole point of the movie is sometimes it's just about obedience. It's not about the reward from the obedience. It's not about conquering the Nazi party because you're a conscientious objector. Sometimes it's about being killed for what you believe in, and then that's it. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That'S what I hear you saying a little bit. It's like, it's an honor to miss out on opportunities because Christ did, too. It's an honor to not be misunderstood. Or it's an honor to be misunderstood because Christ was misunderstood.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's an honor to be lonely because Christ was lonely. Is that what I'm hearing?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. I Mean, I think being like Paul says, when you are single, you're able to divert your whole attention and your focus towards God. When people who are married, they have to focus on worldly matters and spiritual matters, and their attention is diverted and it's divisive, and it's split between two things. And it's not 50. 50. It's not 50 God and 50 your spouse. It's 100 God and 100 your spouse, you know?

[A]

Right.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I've had some people on the podcast that will share their quiet times, and they're like, I get up at 5am and I spend four hours with the Lord. And this happened on. Multiple guests have told me things like that. And I remember going to my wife and just being like, I'm just not on that level. I'm just. I just can't do, like. I'm just. I guess I'm just not, like, spiritual enough because I. I can't do that.

[B]

Are you able to do that?

[A]

No chance. And that's what she reminded me of. She's like, yeah, they don't have four screaming babies in the morning, like, demanding things from you. And so I've had to learn, how do I spend time with Jesus when, like this morning I. The alarm was set, you know, it was still dark out, and I'm. I'm. I'm up. And then all of a sudden on the monitor, I got a poop Dada.

[B]

So I have to run right now. Yeah. I'm like, ah.

[A]

And this. I feel like I have. That's like five days in a row for me where I'm, like, getting up before anyone else. And then something. One of the kids wakes up. And I think that there's just different seasons and you learn different things in those different seasons, and you have to learn how to encounter the Lord in the middle of those different seasons. And I think people, like, we're a body of Christ, we get to honor and bless and encourage one another based off of our different giftings, but also based off of our different experiences. And you have such a unique experience and a unique window into the kingdom of God. And I'm so honored to, like, hear that experience because I do mean it. When I. When I look at you, I see pure masculinity. I really mean that because the Lord has taken me on enough of a tour to realize that masculinity is not the Andrew Tate muscled up, you know, taking charge at every corner, putting people down, being the man, being in control. It's actually the exact opposite of that. In the kingdom of God, it's complete yieldedness of every aspect of your life. And I don't mean to be crass, but you have to have somebody help you go to the bathroom. You have to help someone, have someone help you eat. And that is a window into the kingdom of God. Independence that I don't have, that I'm blessed by. And what an honor to be your friend to witness that masculinity on display.

[B]

Thank you. I don't know what more else to say to that. You know, it's. I think that, you know, I would hate to see who I would be. I would be interested to know who I would be without a disability. Like, would my faith be different? Would my relationship with God be different? I think that'd be interesting to kind of see, like, you know, how that would play out. And I just don't know if I'd be where I'm at. I don't even think my parents would be together. Because having a child who's disabled is one of those things that can either tear your family apart or it can bring you together like never before. And my parents stuck together like glue. My dad did not turn tail and run like most. He gave up a lot of his hobbies to be with me. He quit his job to be a stay at home dad and take care of me. He's pretty good at it. He also plays a lot of Fortnite in his spare time. That's what he does. He's good at that too. But when he's not doing that, he's taking us to school. He's helping me. He's outside working on the house and gardening and stuff. And he's. I mean, doing what you wouldn't think dads do, you know, I mean, it's such a cool thing to see. And it's not the nuclear family picture perfect idea that most people have when they think of the American family. And it's like, and it's weird because the Bible says, like it's pretty clear that, you know, the woman should. It's like the roles are reversed in my family. Bible says, you know, the woman has got a caretaker and a nurturer and a man goes out and provides and does that snot this work today. You know, my mom works like crazy. You know, she's got two jobs. She goes to like two different hospitals. And then my dad stays home and he cooks us dinner. He's got a little apron on in the kitchen. I'm kidding. He doesn't.

[A]

But explain why. Because you Were telling me this yesterday at coffee.

[B]

Explain why. What?

[A]

Because. Explain how your dad's able to better take care of you just because of his shoes.

[B]

Well, I mean, he's a whole lot bigger, but also, like, you know, I think in a way that's the more masculine thing to do is to say, I'm gonna give up my job. I'm gonna give up these quote unquote masculine things. I'm gonna do the real masculine thing right now and stay at home with the kids. And he's probably gonna get another job once I move out and stuff and I'm able to have full time caretakers. But right now he's just stuck with.

[A]

Me, you know, Dude, I get emotional hearing you talk about it because, like, what's sacrificial love, you know, to have your dad.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

That's it. Like, that's masculinity. And it looks completely backwards to the world. Cause they might look at that and go, oh, he's a stay at home dad. Yeah, well, he's staying at home because he's the one who's strong enough to actually be able to lift you and take care of you. And he's putting his career on the altar in order to serve his family. And he's doing it when the roles are reversed. And I think so often people can get so stuck in this dogma of thinking and the scriptures are inspired by God, but it doesn't mean just because it says that a man needs to provide for his family, that it's just talking about financially.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Your dad is providing for your family so many ways in so many more ways.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's just such a beautiful picture. Like, your whole family is just this beautiful picture. Your mom's sitting over here right now.

[B]

She's over there.

[A]

Your whole family is just this beautiful picture of sacrifice and what it. What it looks like to walk into the kingdom of God. And I'm just like. I'm kind of just like speechless because it's so beautiful. And like we were saying yesterday, you wouldn't have the following you do if you weren't in a wheelchair.

[B]

100%.

[A]

It's just the reality. And to praise God and to be like, bro, you're reaching millions, you're reaching tens of millions. And I think sometimes we forget how significant that is. Billy Graham had a stadium event and it, you know, 40,000 people, if they packed it out, would show up. That's a bad video for you and I. Yeah. Like, and that's not a brag. That's a stewardship thing to be like in a gratitude thing to be like, lord, thank you for this. And would you have that if you were full able bodied, looking like your dad, 6 foot 5? You probably wouldn't. You know what I mean?

[B]

Can't light your wheelchair on fire if you don't have one.

[A]

You can't light the wheelchair on fire, bro. That went to 20 million people, right? Was that 20 million?

[B]

No, that was 145 million.

[A]

145 million. That's insane.

[B]

Stupid. So stupid. Insane.

[A]

That's the quote of the podcast. You can't light your wheelchair on fire if you don't have a wheelchair.

[B]

So ridiculous. Oh, my gosh.

[A]

So good. Dude, you got to just like, you got it. Next time, just light it on fire and just have a bible open. Just be reading. Reading the Bible.

[B]

Nothing's going on, dude.

[A]

Crazy viral. Yeah. Almost make it like you don't notice. You don't even notice the wheelchair's on fire.

[B]

I've sent that video probably twice now to Theo Vaughn. I'm still trying. Cause I think if I can get him to see it, I think.

[A]

Dude, you gotta get on Theo Vaughn.

[B]

I'm trying. I'm trying, Ryan. I would love to just pick his brain about the gospel and stuff. I think our sense of humor is kind of similar.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, we need everybody to tag Theo Vaughn. Let's spam tag him, please. And let's get you on Theo Von's podcast.

[B]

Let's do it. And I'll have like. Yeah, that'd be sick, dude. I think Theo was like, if aliens invaded, if they're real, I don't know. But if aliens were real and we had the same one representative of Earth, like just Earth as a collective, I would send Theo to represent the human race.

[A]

Right. I agree with that.

[B]

I think we can survive.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. There would be some weird, logical thing he would do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I want to, like, crawl in his brain for a day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's on another. He's on another wavelength. He's on another frequency than any other human on the planet.

[B]

It's so weird, too, because he can, like, be the strangest guy at times and say the wildest things, and then he can hit your heart, like, start crying. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, who has the power to do that? Only theoban does, from what I've seen.

[A]

Well, you did it a couple times.

[B]

Today too, so thank you. I guess. I guess so, huh? I didn't realize that.

[A]

Dude, let's. Let's get an army of people just, like, spam tagging Theo. This is what we should do. Everybody go to Jamie's Instagram and just tag him in every video. Yeah, just go buck wild. Let's get, like. We need to have this be, like, a coordinated effort. Thousands of people tagging Theo Von in your videos to the point where he has to notice.

[B]

Yeah. Theo, if we ever meet, I promise you I will let you drive my wheelchair. I will lay on the ground and let you drive my wheelchair. I will just. Whatever you want. I promise.

[A]

There it is.

[B]

If that's something he's ever wanted to do, I don't know.

[A]

There's no way he hasn't not thought of that. Knowing Theo Vaughn's brain, knowing the things he's thought about.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. He's awesome.

[A]

I think that was. I think that was actually, like, the straw that broke the camel's back there. I think you just sold him. He's getting in that wheelchair.

[B]

Right? There he goes. I'm sold.

[A]

Dude. Dude, I need. I need at least, like, an assist on that. If. If he gets in that wheelchair. Like, you gotta at least, like, shout me out or something like that. I will, like, bro.

[B]

Couldn't have happened without Ryan Miller. Right?

[A]

Right. Yeah. You gotta shout me out if. If you. If Theophon gets in that chair, dude. Or you gotta give me a. I'm flying out for that.

[B]

Dude. You have to fly.

[A]

I will be flying out. Yeah. I need to be just in the audience watching that.

[B]

You have to see it.

[A]

Okay, Deal.

[B]

It would be insane. Yeah, I think. I think that could happen for sure.

[A]

We got this, dude. We got this.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

All right, dude. Well, where can people find you?

[B]

Find me on Instagram. You can find me on TikTok. You can find me on YouTube. Just Jamie Carrington. That's it.

[A]

Let's go. What's next for you, man?

[B]

Right now, just doing what I've been doing, and I'm going to keep doing that for the rest of my life. Serving people. That's all I want. Like I said before, like, I just want you to. Like you said, you know, I want to serve people in a way where they can't give back to me because Proverbs says it's more of a blessing to give rather than receive. So many people are holding their hands out to get, get, get, get, get that we forget to give. And I don't know about you, but I want to give, and that's why I'm here.

[A]

Amen. Amen. It's been a pleasure, man. Love you, bro.

[B]

It's been a pleasure. I love you for having me here.

[A]

You're a great hang, by the way.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Yeah, let's make. Let's make it happen more than just this time.

[B]

We will for sure.

[A]

Alright, guys, thanks for tuning into the Jesus People podcast. We will see you next week.