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Jesus People Podcast
Ryan & Annie Miller: Marriage, Spiritual Warfare & Hearing God’s Voice | Jesus People Podcast Ep 66
01:06:42
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- [00:00]
A
This is going to shock people. People probably see me as, like, the Bible teacher. Honestly, there's people that. From Wheaton that find my content now. I bet they're like, what happened?
- [00:11]
B
And I'm glad that I didn't meet you in college. I don't have liked me. Yeah, we wouldn't be here.
- [00:17]
A
So we walk in the Satanic temple, we're filming it, we're exposing it, and we leave. And instantly I'm like, boom. My throat started swelling.
- [00:24]
B
We were like, lord, you're going to have to give us lots of confirmation, because we. We don't want to move.
- [00:28]
A
Like, yeah, there was no reason to. But I will tell you, this podcast would not exist if we were not in.
- [00:34]
B
That's true. That's true.
- [00:35]
A
And so I said, I want to know what the Bible says about anxiety and how to heal from anxiety. And I was shocked.
- [00:43]
B
I just didn't realize how much I needed to hear that.
- [00:47]
A
Guys, welcome to the Jesus People Podcast. We have a very spec. The most special guest we've ever had on the Jesus People podcast because it's my favorite Jesus person in the whole world, Annie Miller, my wife, is joining us on the podcast.
- [01:01]
B
Thank you for having me.
- [01:02]
A
Yes, it's. What an honor. What a blessing. What an honor. And I don't know if you guys know this. We're gonna make history on the Jesus People podcast today. You don't even know this, but you will be the first podcast guest that I just start randomly making out with on the podcast. So congratulations. You're making history today. So how do you feel about that?
- [01:24]
B
Wow. So just kind of off the cuff today, huh? Just.
- [01:28]
A
That's how we do it. That's how we do. We're not. We're not super prepared. And also, guys, if I'm. If I'm like, you can't. If you're listening, you can't see me, but I'm, like, clutching this warm mug because Annie gets warm when she's nervous, so she turned the air down to, like, 67.
- [01:43]
B
68. That's really.
- [01:44]
A
It's cold, dude.
- [01:45]
B
Pretty normal.
- [01:47]
A
68's not normal.
- [01:48]
B
Well, I'm just. I've been either pregnant or nursing for the last seven years. So, yeah, I just, like, I'm always hot, and so if I'm nervous, I'm even more hot.
- [01:57]
A
Yeah. Yeah, that's. Hey, that's for show. Sorry, guys.
- [02:01]
B
We're.
- [02:01]
A
Here's one thing you don't know about us, or here's one thing you don't know about me. People like, actually, Annie's. Annie's coach with Share the struggle. She was like, everyone thinks you guys are like this perfect little couple. And Ryan's just this, like. How did she phrase it?
- [02:18]
B
Like, I don't know. Just. Yeah, perfect, perfect family. And Ryan prays over his family three times a day.
- [02:27]
A
Four.
- [02:28]
B
Four.
- [02:28]
A
Oh, four times a day. Yeah.
- [02:29]
B
Yeah, right?
- [02:30]
A
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. On my knees. No, but like, we're. We're goofballs. We're total idiots when we get around each other.
- [02:38]
B
Pretty. Pretty strange, actually. There's. There's a lot of things you'd be surprised about about Ryan.
- [02:45]
A
Yeah. Yeah. I'm a weird cat. People don't know because I just. I like teach the Bible online. And then when I'm having conversations with people here, I guess you get to know bit more. But usually it's like, you know, deep spiritual insights. And I love that. That is part of me, but I'm also really weird, so.
- [03:01]
B
You've come a long way, though, from the Wheaton college days and the. All the. The pranks and the streaking and.
- [03:07]
A
Oh, dude. If people. Honestly, there's people that. From Wheaton that find my content now, I bet they're like, what happened?
- [03:17]
B
He really.
- [03:18]
A
He really, really found the Lord. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Yeah, I was. Oh, man. We don't have to go too into that because there were some. There was some weird stuff I did in college, some bad stuff I did in college. Not the typical.
- [03:33]
B
You never drank, though, and you never slept around, right?
- [03:35]
A
Because I signed my name to. We had a community covenant. Wheaton College Christian school. Shout out. Wheaton, Wheaton Thunder. And I'm like, if I sign my name to it, I'm not drinking. I'm not doing any of the things because I put my name to it. We just did all the things that drunk people do. So without being drunk drunk, I have two reckless conducts from the city of Wheaton. People don't. Like, this is going to shock people. People probably see me as like the Bible teacher, but the homeschool girls were scared. I. Yeah, I'm so sorry, homeschool Wheaton girls. I scared so many homeschool Wheaton girls.
- [04:11]
B
And I'm glad that I didn't meet you in college. Like, if I were. If I was at Wheaton, I. I don't.
- [04:17]
A
You would not have liked me.
- [04:18]
B
Yeah, that. Yeah, we wouldn't be here.
- [04:20]
A
So let's go into that. How did we meet? Because I had at this point. We met when we were 25, right?
- [04:27]
B
Yes.
- [04:27]
A
We are now 35, but we met at 25. So we're coming up on our 10 year anniversary this summer. We still need to plan that trip, get away from these screaming babies. But yeah, I was a little bit more mature, a little more processed than a little bit college days a little bit. Still had you kind of same deal. You had no idea who you married.
- [04:50]
B
I mean, we, we kind of went pretty fast. Like.
- [04:53]
A
Yeah, tell the story. You go, you start. And I'll.
- [04:56]
B
Well, I'll start. But maybe you should. Yeah, pick up. But you know, after a little bit here. But I was on staff with CREW
- [05:05]
A
in Ohio for Christ.
- [05:08]
B
It's a college ministry. And you were part time with crew? Part time coaching baseball at Biola High School Minist. And we met at the CREW conference in Colorado one summer.
- [05:23]
A
It's like where all the staff Crew's like the biggest ministry in the world. So they've got athletes in action. Jesus people. Or not Jesus people. That's my ministry. Jesus film. You get like all these ministries under the umbrella. So there's like what, 10,000? Some people.
- [05:38]
B
A lot. And I, I had been there all summer for, for the training. And you came at the end for like the all staff conference. So everyone who was single was kind of like, you know, you're a little bit on the prowl for someone who, I mean, they, you know, they had a background check. They love Jesus enough to do crew.
- [06:00]
A
Yeah, check, check.
- [06:02]
B
So, you know, you're kind of, you're kind of on the lookout. But I didn't really meet anyone. And by the end, I remember having this time with the Lord where I was like journaling like, okay, God, like, you know, I'm going back to the cornfields of Oxford, Ohio, but, you know, where there's only college students. So I trust you and your timing and I just surrender finding someone and I just completely surrender it. And the next day you were walking outside of the dorm room window. I was with my roommate and we were, we were like, who's that? Yeah, that's walking with your friend.
- [06:41]
A
Yeah, I saw this hot dude.
- [06:44]
B
Yeah. And I was like, took your breath away. He. Well, actually my, my roommate was the one that was like noticing. And then I was like, come on. No, at first. And then, and then, yeah, I was like, I don't think, I don't think he's been here all summer. So they were walking, I think to like the sand. The, the beach volleyball courts or the, the sand volleyball courts and looked like they were going to go work out and stuff. So we got our Little. Our little shorts on and we're like, let's just go over there and, like, see if we meet them creepers. So we walk over there and they weren't there. So we were like, ah, maybe we'll run into them. And that night at the carnival, was it the carnival?
- [07:27]
A
No, no, no. So that night, no, we. After the sessions and stuff, we went in Fort Collins, Colorado State. We. We went to the bars and neither of us drank much, but, like, that's where everyone was going to hang out, you know, Christian. Christian, you know, missionaries going to the bars and stuff. But no, it was like.
- [07:50]
B
It was like corn. Corn. What's it called?
- [07:53]
A
Cornhole. It was cornhole night. That's right. It was cornhole night. So we. I walk in and. And. Okay, so I was in a similar spot as you because I had just gotten done playing minor league baseball. I was going into ministry, and then I just kind of couldn't let go of baseball. So I started coaching at a college in LA called Biola and, like, was pretty good at it, good at recruiting, good at all that stuff, and thought that maybe I'd be like a head college baseball coach. But I just kind of got tired of throwing batting practice to kids and I was like, man, I just really like talking about Jesus. So, though. Oh, there's our baby, dude. Early, sooner than we expected. Cut. Pause cameras. We'll bring the baby out. If you're listening on Apple podcast or Spotify.
- [08:40]
B
He could crawl around.
- [08:41]
A
Yeah, let's let him crawl. Let's have Richard hold the baby. Film her over here.
- [08:47]
B
This would happen. We're like, I think we have a solid hour.
- [08:50]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [08:51]
B
Okay.
- [08:51]
A
All right, go grab. Go grab the baby. And we're back with a baby. Cute baby. Yeah. The cutest baby of all time.
- [09:00]
B
Just didn't want a nap as long.
- [09:02]
A
Yeah. But, yeah, well, it's all right. He'll chill.
- [09:05]
B
He wanted to be part of our story.
- [09:06]
A
Yeah. Come on out, big dog. Okay, so picking up. He's like, whoa, dude, look at these lights. So I was coaching baseball, got kind of tired of it and just wanted tell people about Jesus. So I just, on a whim, decided to go to the crew conference. Literally didn't have a ticket, signed up that night and flew out the next morning. I was like, I'm doing this thing. Slept on my buddy's floor. And then that night is when we went. So we worked out. You saw us working out. Then we went to the bars that night. And I saw it. Yeah. And I saw her and I was in a similar spot where, like, baseball was done for me. Like, I was like, jesus, you have everything. He's like, look at this microphone. He's so intrigued. I really given, like, my career on the altar, given, like, everything to Jesus, which. You were in a similar spot and so. And wasn't looking, like, definitely wasn't going to the crew conference for girls. I was like, I need to encounter the Lord and see what the Lord has for me in ministry. And then I just saw you that night, and I was like, dang, she's hot. And so, like, I walked up and bought you a cider. I think wasn't.
- [10:15]
B
Was not into beer at the time.
- [10:16]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've. You've evolved now. She likes IPAs and stuff.
- [10:21]
B
I mean, I wouldn't. Yeah, a little bit.
- [10:24]
A
Yeah, a little bit. Right, So.
- [10:25]
B
A little bit.
- [10:26]
A
And so then we. We, like, talk the whole night, and I go back to my. The dorm room where we're staying with a bunch of dudes, and I like, tell all the guys. I'm like, dude, I really like Annie. And the next morning, I wake up to this guy. He's, like, standing over my bed. He's like, hey, man. So, like, how much do you like Annie? I'm like, I mean, I really like her. I talked to her for maybe, you know, 30 minutes, but I really like her. I'm going to ask her out. He goes, well, I've kind of had a crush on her the whole summer. Summer. And I was like, bro, I will give you till midnight tonight to ask her out. And then I'm asking her out because you've been here. I want to honor you as, like, a bro, but, like, if you're not asking her out by midnight tonight. And then, anyway, we met up at the carnival that night and hung out. I went and found you. I was, like, literally, like, searching for you. The whole, like, stalker status, like, where is she? And found you. We went out to the same bar that night, or different bar, and we just talked the whole night, and homie was nowhere to be found. And it's like 11:40 that night. We've talked the whole night. And I'm like, I love this girl. Like, I'm in. Like, I was so in. And I'm like, but I want to keep my word to this guy. And so you were like, hey, let's go. I'm going to go back and I'm going to go to sleep. And it's like 11:45, and I'm like, I need to keep My word. I'm like, well, could we maybe go to, like, one more bar? And no.
- [11:47]
B
You were like, what are you up to now? It's like 11:45. I'm like, what am I up to?
- [11:53]
A
Sleeping.
- [11:54]
B
Going. Going back to bed.
- [11:56]
A
Yeah, well. And you were probably like, this dude's an alcoholic. What? Probably had one beer that night. But I was like, dang, okay. So I was like, screw it. This guy's. There's no way he's gonna find you, you know, Like. So I was like, hey, well, can I take you out to dinner tomorrow night? And then you said, yes. Got your number. And then the next morning, I called my mom and I said, I met the woman I'm gonna marry. And a week later I told you I was gonna marry you.
- [12:24]
B
Yep.
- [12:25]
A
And, dude, I made good on that statement.
- [12:29]
B
Yeah, I remember just, like, smiling really big, like, wait, what did he just say? Yeah, a week after we met, and I.
- [12:37]
A
That was not like, like, me. Like, I had dated girls for over a year and never said I love you. Never was, like, honestly that into it. And then as soon as I met you, I was like, done.
- [12:49]
B
Yeah.
- [12:50]
A
I think it was your love for Jesus that you wanted to be a mom. You were, like, passionate about wanting to be a mom. And I hadn't heard that. And again, like, this was back in 2015. Like, it was not cool back then to say, you want to be a mom? It's a little more cool now. But, like, it was height of the me too feminist. Like, it was not cool. And you were. You just didn't care. You were just like, I just. I just want to be a mom and raise godly kids. Kids. And I was like, sold all in, dude.
- [13:16]
B
Yeah. And I. I had, you know, dated a few people, but they always seemed kind of, like, unsure about me. And so to me, because some people have been like, what was your reaction to that? You know, where you freaked out? And actually, it was really refreshing.
- [13:36]
A
Yeah.
- [13:37]
B
That, like, you were so sure about me. I just hadn't experienced that before, so.
- [13:42]
A
Yeah.
- [13:43]
B
Yeah, it was nice.
- [13:44]
A
Yeah, dude. Oh, that's a cool microphone, huh, bubba?
- [13:48]
B
That's pretty cool. So you proposed about five months, but
- [13:52]
A
I instantly started saving for a ring I was making. I was making sixteen hundred dollars a month, and I ate Costco chicken for the next four months and just started, like, literally saved all of it and got you a ring and talked to your dad and got married a year after we met. And now we're coming up on 10 years, and I would say we Have a very healthy marriage. Like, a lot of people, they're like, try to relate to people, and they're like, well, you know, like, we. We have our problems, and we do, but, like, we've got a pretty legit marriage. Like, I would say that's, like, one of the best things recently. We've had some bumps. You want to get into that at all or. A bump?
- [14:32]
B
I mean. Yeah, I think. I think, like, we just. We really. Yeah, we really didn't have a ton of conflict, like, in most of our marriage. I think you are naturally. In terms of, like, kind of how God designed marriage. Like, you're. You're kind of. You're the strong leader. I'm softer. It kind of works like, the way God made it to work, like, pretty naturally.
- [14:59]
A
Yeah.
- [15:01]
B
But I think you started feeling like I was pushing back on things and, like, you know, like, what happened to my submissive wife.
- [15:10]
A
No, it wasn't that. It wasn't. Because it was just. It was. There were. There were just things that, like, you wouldn't let go.
- [15:17]
B
You can go into it.
- [15:18]
A
Okay, so, like. So some of it was, like, boundaries in ministry with women. And, you know, we talked about it, and I think as you started seeing my ministry trajectory and reach on social media and podcast increase, you're like, it's time to tighten boundaries. I said, let's do it. So we went out for a couple date nights and coffee dates, and we drew up boundaries, and then different scenarios would come up, and you would be like, hey, I'm not comfortable with that either. And I'd say, okay, well, let's add to the boundary. But then I think it, like, emotionally, you were like. You were trying to find your voice. Like, you. You never really exit. Dude, he just farted. Do you hear that?
- [16:04]
B
Yeah.
- [16:05]
A
Come across. Richard. This kid just farted so loud. Good boy. Good boy. That probably felt really good. But you. You felt like. You're like. What was safe was to be quiet.
- [16:18]
B
Yeah. Kind of to stay quiet. And. Yeah. I just really. That was the deeper thing going on because you were kind of like, why does this keep coming up, like, literally every night, like, for weeks and weeks, And.
- [16:32]
A
And it wasn't. I mean, it wasn't logical. It wasn't.
- [16:35]
B
No, it. Yeah. After a while, it was like, okay, we've already talked about this. But I was like, why do I feel like I have to keep bringing it up and. Because I kind of felt like I would leave every conversation not feeling reassured. Because you were annoyed, which makes sense. But I was feeling that Annoyance, like, and instead of this, like, reassurance, like, you know, even though it was a repetitive conflict, I wasn't getting that reassurance. Like, don't worry, babe. Like, you know, I'll make sure that, you know, you feel comfortable with this scenario or that.
- [17:10]
A
And I felt like there was no progress being made. It was like, hey, we wrote out the boundaries. I'm holding to the boundaries, which is logical.
- [17:15]
B
You were being logical about it.
- [17:17]
A
But. But I think this is the classic, like, men and women dynamic. Is what you were saying was a layer deeper than what you were saying. What you were saying was, I need you to, like, hear me and. And be okay with me continuing to bring this up and you. Like, I needed to continually affirm and. And revalidate my love for you and my commitment to you and. And that I truly care about doing this the healthy way. As, you know, I start being recognized more in public and all of the things that are just kind of weird and I think didn't expect to happen.
- [17:55]
B
Yeah, I. I think I was. I was almost, like, testing. Is he gonna. Is he gonna hear me? Like, is he gonna put weight to my voice? Like, is. Am I going to be prioritized? Because, yes, I. You know, I trust you, of course, but, like, I think I just had that question mark where I. Well, remember how we talked to my. My coach, Carrie, and, like, you talked to her on the phone, like, what is going on with Annie?
- [18:25]
A
I literally. I sent her a voice memo one time because I was just like, there's something. Okay, this is not normal anymore. Something deeper is going on where we've established these boundaries, but she keeps bringing it up. And the analogy I use is it almost felt like someone that, like, you know, you. You decide to, you know, diet with your spouse, and you guys commit to the diet, and you're doing the diet, and it's. It's written out, and you've said, okay, this is our diet. We're doing this. And then you keep touching the mic. It's okay. He keeps touching the mic. That's all right, bubba. You can. It's a fun toy. And. But then you keep bringing up, like, hey, like, is this diet important to you? And I was like, the only conclusion I would have after, like, a month of you bringing it up consistently is, like, you think I'm fat. You know, and. And, like, the. The. My conclusion was, like, I don't think she trusts me. And it wasn't that. And so when I basically, I, like, called Carrie and I was like, SOS Man. Like, what. Like, what is going on? Like, I don't understand. Like, this is the first time in marriage I don't understand. And she was able to communicate to me, like, hey, listen, Annie is trying to find her voice, and this is something really breaking out of the. Yeah.
- [19:35]
B
Breaking out of the.
- [19:36]
A
The chrysalis. That was the analogy she gave. Like, Annie is like a caterpillar breaking out of the chrysalis, and she's going to do it awkwardly, but she needs your support because she's becoming this butterfly, and now she feels safe in this relationship with you to basically do it awkwardly. And at that point, I'm not kidding. A butterfly flew right in front of my face. I don't see many butterflies. Like, we're in Dallas. You basically have, like, mosquitoes and wasps. You know, like, butterfly flew right in front of my face. And it was like, okay, Lord, you're speaking like you're doing something in Annie.
- [20:10]
B
Yeah.
- [20:11]
A
And I remember.
- [20:11]
B
Confirmed it.
- [20:12]
A
It confirmed it, and I remember. And then it was done, because then I came home and. Well, you can share.
- [20:17]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So you saw the butterfly. You were like, oh, that makes so much sense. She's, like, healing right now. And so. Oh, what do we want to pass off the baby.
- [20:29]
A
All right, baby. Pass off time.
- [20:36]
B
He had his. His little moment. Yeah. Yeah. So you walk in, and I'm, like, so thankful that you're talking to her because she kind of understands what's really going on in that deeper level. And because it's really not my nature to be, like, pestering and, like, let's just keep having conflict. Like, it was just. Yeah. So you come back, and we don't.
- [20:57]
A
We don't fight. Like, I feel like we resolve things really quickly that we couldn't resolve this.
- [21:01]
B
Yeah. It just wasn't. We needed a third party. So you get back, and you just gave me this really big, warm hug. And just the. I just saw this, like, tenderness in your eyes when you looked at me. Like, reminded me of, like, how you looked at me during, like, our first date dance at her wedding. I was like, whoa. Like, when I felt that from you, I suddenly was like, okay, everything's okay. Like, I really didn't even feel the need to talk about it anymore. Like, that's what I wanted was just to feel like you were for me and to feel that tenderness from you towards me again, not this, like, annoyance. And so, yeah, that's. That's, like, what I was craving for those. Those weeks. And so really, really, like, we stopped talking about it after that it was so crazy.
- [21:51]
A
Yeah.
- [21:52]
B
Yeah.
- [21:52]
A
And I think what's so important, what a learning lesson for me is for husbands to understand, for me to understand. But I'll speak to the husbands here that women communicate different than we do. And that's a beautiful thing. Like, it's not. That's. I think sometimes men can be like, just give it to me straight. It's like, well, they're. They're sharing something, and they have insights and intuition into something that you maybe aren't necessarily picking up on. And maybe you were really feeling. Maybe there was a part of it, too, where you were having this need, this intuition to really dial in the boundaries and really communicate clearly. Like, this is very important to me, what we do and what we don't do with the opposite sex. Like, are you having a coffee meeting? If it's for business? Like, we need to get very specific. Like, what is the specific boundary? There's. And so there's discernment that I think our wives have that we need to honor.
- [22:48]
B
Yeah. I. I don't think it was this weird jealousy thing. It was like. I think after Charlie Kirk was killed, I just felt this heaviness and this weight to the platform God's given you and just this need to really lock it in. Even, like, locking in our Sabbath, locking in a lot of things, but especially me feeling prioritized and protected in terms of, like, strict boundaries. More than you normally would. Just to know that. Yeah. That we're taking it really, really seriously. So.
- [23:24]
A
Yeah. And on a team together, that we do this, like. And that's another thing, too, that we can get into is, like, how we make big decisions, how we hear from the voice of God, how we collaborate on the things that the Lord's calling us to, and really discerning and hearing his voice clearly. But I want to just finish on this note that, like, I think there, I look back on that and I, I. It was such a light bulb moment for me that I wish I would have had earlier, that I needed a coach who is trauma informed, who understood you and could then clearly say to me, like, Ryan, she's. This is actually not about the boundaries.
- [24:10]
B
Not about you. Yeah.
- [24:11]
A
It's not about you at all. She's trying to find her voice. And for me, I'm like, well, now I'm on your team.
- [24:19]
B
Yeah.
- [24:19]
A
You know, and I think.
- [24:20]
B
And you want me to heal. You want my voice. Like, that's the thing, is you want my voice. Yes. And what's beautiful about the covenant of marriage is that you have this opportunity to heal with each other, and God chose that person. You know, you bring. You bring all your junk, good, bad, and ugly, past traumas to the table, and God's like, I chose this person to help you heal.
- [24:42]
A
Yes.
- [24:43]
B
Your brokenness. And that's, like, such a beautiful thing.
- [24:47]
A
Totally, totally. And it really is, like, I think for husbands, like, it's Christ in the church, you know, like, where we are the picture of Christ. What an honor. Like, what a burden, too. Like, a beautiful burden that we are called to lay down our life for you and to lay down our tone for you and to lay down our offendability with you and to simply recognize the Bible. The Bible says to recognize your wife is the weaker vessel. And a lot of people that, like, instantly irks them, but the mindset there is not weaker, as in less competent or less capable. It's a different vessel. It's like a beautiful piece of fine china versus like, a yeti mug. You know what I mean? Like, and I think, like, God has wired us in such a way where as men, we need to honor the beautiful, intricate, artistic design of our wives, and that's emotionally, too. Like, we need to honor that. And for wives, you were so gracious with me in my frustration, where in some ways, I'm just this yeti mug that's like, I don't understand the design of everything that's happening here.
- [26:01]
B
Yeah.
- [26:01]
A
But, like, I think one thing that I think probably you needed to hear in that conflict that I should have said earlier is I don't know what's happening here, but I'm in this with you.
- [26:12]
B
Yeah.
- [26:13]
A
And I'm gonna be in this with you and for you and just. Just to say that and then to shut up and to say nothing else
- [26:19]
B
that I married to you.
- [26:20]
A
Like, so glad.
- [26:21]
B
Really go there as women. Like.
- [26:23]
A
Yeah.
- [26:23]
B
Gosh, like, seems like he just. Yeah. Is he even happy he's still married to me.
- [26:29]
A
Yeah. Yeah. But see, and that. That didn't even occur to me, like, because it's so obvious, like, I'm so madly in. I'm more in love with you now than I ever have been. And I was more in love with you in the middle of that conflict than I was the year prior and the year we got married. And, you know, like, just because there's this. This bond that gets deepened through marriage if you're on the same team. And we had been on the same team, but I think I was getting nervous that we weren't on the same team anymore.
- [26:54]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I Think it. It's just women can feel like, oh, am I. You know, if the husband is the head, the wife is less than. But it's not the case. Like, the Hebrew word for helper is actually. I forget what is actually the word, but it means, like, when God was helping Israel, it implies strength, not inferiority.
- [27:22]
A
Yeah.
- [27:22]
B
And so it's not this less valuable person. Like, both people in marriage, the husband and the wife are equal in value, but different in function. Like, we have different roles, and God made it that way. And I wouldn't want the weight of, like, being responsible for providing for and protecting and leading my family.
- [27:45]
A
Yeah.
- [27:46]
B
Like, I wouldn't want to carry that.
- [27:48]
A
Yeah, totally. And. And I would have it no other way. Like, I feel this innate need in myself to provide and to protect. And when I feel honored, like, when I come home and I feel like I'm valued for the work I did, it's like my tenderness towards you goes through the roof and vice versa. When I'm tender with you, you honor me. It's he. Ephesians 5. If anybody wants to safeguard their marriage, just go read Ephesians 5.
- [28:18]
B
Yeah.
- [28:19]
A
It's wives, submit to your husband. And again, submission is not in terms of value. It's in terms of rank. It's saying, like, hey, I'm looking to you as the leader, as the protector, as the provider, to take care of us. And I'm honoring your role. That's what submission means. It doesn't mean I'm less than you. I'm not as competent in you as you. I'm not as capable as you. It's saying, the way God designed me is not to fit the ideal function of leader within the home. And then that's like three verses to the women. And then it goes on to the men, like, the whole page. Lay down your life for her. You're Christ in this picture. Like, your call is to love them, to treat them tenderly, like all of these things. The Bible says, husbands, your prayers won't be heard if you're being brutal towards your wives. And it's like, man, if you don't want your prayers to be hindered, then just look at your wife with tenderness. Just look at her with love and speak to her tenderly as the beautiful, weaker vessel that she is. The beautiful, tender, artistic piece of china that the Lord has fashioned in your wife. And with all the intricacies and all the complexities that might annoy you sometimes, but they're actually a beautiful gift to refine you. And I think that's the thing too, is, like, we don't make decisions without you first weighing in on my decisions. Like, anything that we're going to do, ministry wise, like, I won't go to my mentors, I won't go to my best friends. I'm going to Annie because I have enough data points now of 10 years of marriage to know that Annie's never wrong.
- [29:51]
B
I don't know about that.
- [29:52]
A
No, no, you like. It's so true. In terms of decisions, if you pray about something and hear from the Holy Spirit, I think the Lord really honors the decision for husbands to pull their wives into decisions and wives to pull their husbands in because he wants to honor that unity so much. And I think, yeah, I'll stop there.
- [30:09]
B
Yeah, no, I 100% like that tenderness piece. If. If the wife is feeling like their husband adores them. I'll tell you what, husbands, that'll increase your intimacy too.
- [30:21]
A
Yeah. Yeah. If you want to have sex with your wives, treat them with tenderness. Like, look them in the eyes when you get home and just say, I'm so happy I married you.
- [30:30]
B
I love you. It really has to. Yeah, it's more. Much more of an emotional thing for women. But, yeah, we don't have to get too much into that. But I just.
- [30:39]
A
We can get into that if you want.
- [30:40]
B
No, we. Yeah, that. I think that's the most important piece, though.
- [30:44]
A
We had this conversation the other day. I don't know if you're okay with sharing this, but, like. Like we were talking about how you're just like, well, you just want sex all the time.
- [30:52]
B
Well, no, you said we were talking about, what do you. What do you like? What's something you need from me in this new year? And you're like, I wish you would initiate more. Initiate sex more. Yeah. And I was like, well, you gotta give me a chance.
- [31:11]
A
I mean, shoot. But yeah, podcast everybody.
- [31:19]
B
But I think, yeah, I think when I shared that what I need more from you is more of that tenderness, and then I connected. I connected it to. Actually, I think if I felt that more and I felt connected to you more in that, you know, and you made me feel like I could feel your tender love towards me, that I would be like, more.
- [31:46]
A
Yeah.
- [31:47]
B
More into the physical, too.
- [31:48]
A
Yeah, I don't. I don't think any wives want to have sex with their husbands if they don't feel adored.
- [31:53]
B
Yeah. I mean, it's definitely harder to. I think it's more transactional if you're not feeling that connection and feeling that love from. From Them.
- [32:02]
A
Yeah. And marriage sex is. I mean, I didn't have sex before I was married to you, but like, I've heard marriage sex is far better because you're just like, you just know that person inside and out. It's not transactional whatsoever. It's like, it's. You really are making love. And I think that again, I don't know how far going.
- [32:22]
B
Yeah, no, one thing I was going to say is, like, speaking of how, like the words that you say when you said, like, it makes me feel really honored when I come home if you're like appreciating what I did and, you know, and making it a home you want to come back to. And I think part of that honoring is like, the words that wives speak, I think hold. Hold so much weight. And I just remember one time where I. I just was like, I'm. I'm just gonna tell him that I'm. I'm really grateful for how he's been providing for our family.
- [33:03]
A
Yeah.
- [33:03]
B
It's like such a simple thing to say. And it's true. I remember it and I feel like it almost lit a fire under you to like, provide even more.
- [33:12]
A
Yeah.
- [33:13]
B
And I was like, oh, okay. Like, that wasn't why I brought that up, but.
- [33:19]
A
Yep. Speak to the man and the boy will disappear.
- [33:21]
B
Yeah. Like, when a husband feels honored and appreciated and like, you're grateful for what they're doing for your family and vice versa. Like, I want to feel that way too. But I think in terms of honoring, though, like, you really do. That one sentence I said, like, I was like, whoa. Like, I feel like you just got all these like, deals after that. And like, that wasn't why I brought it up, but, you know, it's powerful what wives, the words that wives say.
- [33:51]
A
I think we crave it more than we can admit. Like, we don't. We don't even know how to admit it to you. But as husbands, we are still very self conscious about our position and our standing and whether you honor and respect us and whether you think we're the man and whether you think we're the provider because you know us so well. I think that's the thing is wives know their husbands really well. Open books, you know, the weird things we do, you know, our peccadillo's, you know, our weirdnesses, you know, that our, you know, our inconsistencies. And I'll never forget talking to an older man that I just really looked up to and thought was super wise and asked him like, hey, what's your prayer life look like with your wife? And he goes, I don't really pray with my wife. And I go, why? He goes, well, she just knows me too well. And I go, whoa. And I think the logical conclusion of what he was saying there is, I don't want to fake it. She knows me, and I don't want to be inauthentic. And. Yeah. Just have this spiritual moment when I don't feel like I'm that guy. And what I would say to men that feel that way is you do need to fake it to a certain extent. If you do not feel like you're good at praying, go pray with your wife every single night. You and I, we don't sleep. We cannot sleep until we pray together every single night we're praying together.
- [35:14]
B
Yeah.
- [35:14]
A
There's a decision. We're praying together.
- [35:16]
B
Yeah.
- [35:17]
A
Weekends.
- [35:17]
B
Yeah. Even. Even if we just had a conflict or something.
- [35:20]
A
Yep.
- [35:21]
B
We're still. We're still praying before bed.
- [35:24]
A
And the only reason we do that is just because we've just done it for so long now that it feels odd to. To not do it. It feels like we can't go to bed without it.
- [35:33]
B
Yeah, it's. It's much. It's. It's natural now. And I think. Yeah, I think that's. That's one thing that has really helped protect our marriage and.
- [35:43]
A
Yeah.
- [35:44]
B
Yeah. What about, like, do you want to go into how. Kind of how we handle enemy attacks and things like that as a couple?
- [35:52]
A
Just totally. Because we've had a lot this last year hearing.
- [35:55]
B
Hearing God's voice.
- [35:57]
A
Yep. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think. I think it starts with that prayer thing. I mean, there's a reason why the divorce rate is just as high among Christians as it is, again with non Christians. And there's also a reason why if you pray together out loud every single day with your spouse, the stats show that couples that pray together every day out loud with their spouse, only 1 in 1152 of them will be divorced. So it is virtually impossible to be divorced if you pray with your spouse every day. Why do you think that is? Like, why?
- [36:27]
B
I mean, you're. Yeah. You're bringing God into it, and, you know, he, the Holy Spirit, convicts. And I think when I feel like there's something coming against me, against us, or I'm. I'm feeling this sudden wave of fear before bed or whatever it is, or I have a bad dream, like, I feel like we are. Are pretty good at taking inventory in that moment. Like, first of all, we do pray together. Yeah. I ask you to pray for me if I'm the one, you know, struggling with fear or something, or if I wake up with a bad dream, obviously prayer and then. But yeah, taking inventory of, like, is there anything we need to confess? Like, anything that. Just making confession a consistent thing, and, you know, not holding any bitterness, not holding any unforgiveness.
- [37:22]
A
Yeah.
- [37:24]
B
And so addressing that and then just denouncing, like, any. Any demonic spirit in Jesus name and pleading the blood of Jesus over our family.
- [37:35]
A
Take communion.
- [37:35]
B
Sometimes we take communion if it's a real doozy.
- [37:38]
A
Yeah, yeah. When we've had real doozies.
- [37:40]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we really have.
- [37:41]
A
I mean, we're interviewing Satanists and former witches, former psychics and all that on our podcast. And. And you can feel the attack. Yeah, but you can also feel. I mean, I visited the Satanic temple,
- [37:54]
B
you know, crazy stuff. Like, this is not chill. This is. This is crazy stuff, taking back what the enemy has stolen. And so we're going to feel that opposition. But the blood of Jesus is powerful. We have the authority. And then the most important part at the end of kind of doing those things is asking the Holy Spirit to fill us and saying, like, even saying, I submit to you, Holy Spirit. I submit my family and my marriage to you, Holy Spirit, and come fill our home. Surround us with your angels. And yeah, the enemy flees.
- [38:28]
A
But, yeah, and we teach our kids to do the same, too. Like, teach your kids to take authority over the enemy while they're young. Let them know that you can tell him to go in Jesus name, and he will go.
- [38:38]
B
Yeah. Or like, if Jack, sometimes he'll come down with an idea. Yeah. Or said, I saw this creepy, you know, guy, or like some creepy image or something. And sometimes it's like, who knows, was that on a show he watched or where. Where he got that? Or maybe it really is a demonic attack and teaching him to go, go away in Jesus's name. You know, I reject fear in Jesus's name. And he's six, you know, but totally, they totally are capable of doing that.
- [39:11]
A
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
- [39:14]
B
Yeah.
- [39:14]
A
And I think too, like, auditing your life and being like, where are the crack doors? Are there any open doors here? Yeah, I remember you and I couldn't sleep about, what was it? Like, a few weeks ago? And. And so, like, I just started auditing. I'm like, lord, were there. Is there any sin? Were there any cracked doors? Like, what. Like, what's going on? Like, that we could be attacked right now with this sleeplessness? Because that's how the enemy has attacked us in the past is like, Andy and I, like, after we did the podcast with the former head of the church, Satan, we were just staying up. We were just like looking at each other at three in the morning for multiple nights. And then all our kids started PUK the fourth night or whatever. And we're like, we haven't slept terrible days. And then everyone's getting crazy sick. You're throwing up. I'm like, my throat blows up. Like, just crazy stuff started happening. And I think there's a couple things you can do to prevent that. One is live a pure life. Like, I, I, in the middle of the night, confessed to you. I was like, I was trying to find any, any cracks with it. Is there any unconfessed sin? Well, there was, there was a movie I watched where I didn't fast forward some suggestive content fast enough. And I was just like, I think I'm just gonna confess that I'm sorry, I should have, I should have fast forwarded right away. I lingered for longer than I should have. And I, and, and, and I think
- [40:35]
B
some people can go, oh, well, it's in every movie these days. And you know, you can't avoid it. But honestly, like, then don't watch tv, like, or find shows where there really isn't anything like that because, and we, we kind of do have a hard time sometimes finding shows. Like, I have such a, I have such a low tolerance for anything disturbing. Anything, Anything creepy.
- [41:02]
A
Yeah, totally. Yes. You find any cracks and then I think you take authority. The. The enemy's gonna attack first with fear. He's gonna find open doors. He's gonna attack with fear.
- [41:14]
B
Yeah. If he can get you with the fear, then he can really penetrate the
- [41:20]
A
lack of faith, the lack of the shield of faith with his flaming arrows. Intrusive thoughts, fear, unforgiveness, fake arguments, lies, all of these different things. And then the attack comes after that. Then there's sickness. And a lot of people don't realize that Satan can attack you with sickness. That's very clear in the Bible. He can attack in a number of different ways. However, he doesn't have authority over you. And so the first stop is just saying, nope, we're taking full authority. I haven't shared this publicly, but when we went to the Satanic temple and basically prayed throughout the Satanic temple, we definitely prayed beforehand, but we needed to be extra armed up for this because we were going full into enemy territory. So we walk in the Satanic temple, we're Filming it. We're exposing it. We're. We're pleading the blood of Jesus over it, and we leave. And instantly I'm like, boom. My throat started swelling, and I was just like, oh, dude.
- [42:21]
B
Yeah, it was pretty instant, right?
- [42:23]
A
Instant. And I'm like, shoot. I'm like, we didn't. We didn't. We didn't do enough. Enough prayer and prayer, enough guarding. We didn't. I was. I hadn't been fasting. I had, like, there. And this isn't, like, legalism. This is just understanding warfare. Like, you need to arm up. If you're. If you're going into enemy territory, you better seal up the cracks. You better be armed up. And so that night we got together, we had people lay hands on us and pray over us. I felt it lift spiritually, felt it lift. And then we took communion. And as soon as we took communion, sore throat gone crazy. And this is not. This is not like placebo. Like, I had a sore throat, took communion, gone.
- [43:01]
B
Yeah, I. That. That was crazy. Obviously, germs are real and, you know. Obviously.
- [43:07]
A
Yeah. Not everything's but like. But.
- [43:09]
B
And not everything's a demon, but that is something that he can attack with. Yeah. Just crazy.
- [43:17]
A
Yeah.
- [43:18]
B
But I feel like. Yeah. And then when we've just. In terms of how we hear God's voice together.
- [43:24]
A
Yeah. Like, well, we moved to Texas because we.
- [43:27]
B
That was a big.
- [43:28]
A
Heard the Holy Spirit tell us to
- [43:29]
B
move to Texas within a day.
- [43:31]
A
People that were crazy.
- [43:33]
B
Yeah.
- [43:33]
A
Yeah.
- [43:34]
B
Within a day of each other. We both heard, not audibly, but in our spirit, like, almost like an intrusive thought, but from God. You're gonna move soon. Like, within a day of each other. And I come and tell you that, and you're like, no way. Like, I. I literally had that same thought.
- [43:52]
A
It made me really sad because I didn't want to leave California.
- [43:55]
B
Well, we never thought we would leave San Diego.
- [43:57]
A
There was no reason to move.
- [43:58]
B
No, we loved it there. We had the best friends. Like, we just never thought we would move. But when we both got that, we were like, okay, I need to. Right away. I was like, I need to go spend time with the Lord. Like, we need to pray into this and see what this is about. And I asked for. I asked the Lord for a scripture, which sometimes I'll do if I'm like, I want to. I want, like, a confirmation on something, or I. You know, I asked in terms of whether we should leave California or not. I asked for a scripture, and I got Jeremiah 6 and the very first verse Says, flee for your safety.
- [44:37]
A
Pretty on the nose. This is pretty common with you, though.
- [44:40]
B
Get you. Well, you can't get any more clear than that. I literally was asking him, should we leave? Flee for your safety? There's. It's not any more clear than that. And I don't. I didn't know at the time, is that physical safety, Is that spiritual safety? I don't know. But if this is what he's asking us to do, we have to be obedient, because I. It's scary to move to another state and totally start over, but it's scarier to be in disobedience. And, like, what would have happened if we stayed?
- [45:09]
A
You know, that's the perfect way to say it. So it was so clear. And people that know you, they just know you're like a spiritual gangster. Like, people just like, they, you know, you're such a sweet, pretty lady, but, like, you're a gangster, dude. Like, you hear from the Lord so clearly, and then you do it. And we were both like, we have. We have to move. And we did.
- [45:34]
B
We were like, lord, you're gonna have to give us lots of confirmation because we don't want to move.
- [45:38]
A
Like, yeah, there was no reason to. But I will tell you, this podcast would not exist if we were not in.
- [45:43]
B
That's true. That's true. I do think with the platform God had planned for you, he wanted us to be in a certain place. We don't know what's going on spiritually. We can't really see it, but he wanted us to be here in Dallas. And. And so we did a vision trip. We were like, okay, let's get there on that land and pray there and ask for confirmation. And we got so many little winks from the Lord.
- [46:11]
A
Yeah. But in our flesh. Did not want to go. Like, no, Dallas is not. If you've been to San Diego, dude. It's like the land of milk.
- [46:18]
B
You really.
- [46:19]
A
Yeah, you cannot beat it. It's pre heavenly, and we had a home with, like, a 2% interest rate. Like, it was just dumb. Like, yeah, why would you leave that? You know why?
- [46:29]
B
My best friends, who we literally. My parents, we got pregnant with them. Not with. We got pregnant at the same time as them. Well, for every one of our four kids, which, by the way, we haven't even said that. We popped out four babies. We have four babies all under six.
- [46:45]
A
It's chaos.
- [46:46]
B
It's a jungle. Yeah, they're cute, though.
- [46:49]
A
They're good babies.
- [46:50]
B
They're good babies. But we were going through every one of those pregnancies at the same time and, like, transitions at the same time. And just we were in it together, and it was so hard. So hard to leave them. And then. But we just were like, we have to be obedient. And so we did. We sold our house, and I was in my first trimester when we moved to the 110 degree of that late
- [47:17]
A
June, as we alluded to earlier. With the temperature in here, Annie, you get anxious and heat. It's like a trigger for your anxiety is heat. So. Oh, where should we move? Dallas? Like, what?
- [47:30]
B
I. The Lord's like, I'm gonna work on that.
- [47:32]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [47:35]
B
But, yeah, we. We did it. And I think sometimes we think that. That it's. It's such a clear voice when we're trying to listen to the Holy Spirit, but sometimes just like, a nudge or, like, remember at the airport when Jack left his backpack of rocks? He's obsessed with rocks these days. Like, obsessed with collecting rocks. And we were. He had a whole backpack full of rocks that he had collected at the beach.
- [48:03]
A
I don't even know over months. Like, his favorite rocks.
- [48:06]
B
Yeah, yeah. Several, like, gems and things, too, that he was gifted and whatever in his collection. And his little backpack he left at the toy store in the airport. And we leave. We leave through, like, the, you know, security doors or whatever. Like, you can't go back in after you leave. But he had left the backpack there, and we were like, no.
- [48:29]
A
Yeah. And so I'm scrambling. I'm talking to the security guards. I'm talking, like. Like, what do we have to do to go back in? You know, we don't have a ticket, so you can't go back through, like, security.
- [48:39]
B
They're like, call lost and found.
- [48:41]
A
No one's picking up. It's ringing forever. And so finally, I'm just like, well, we'll have to, you know, pray that someone calls us back from lost and found. Let's go get our bags, and let's. Let's get out of here. That's the only thing we can do. And he's devastated, man.
- [48:58]
B
So sad. Yeah. And then I was sitting there. Ryan was grabbing the bags from baggage claim. I see these two policemen standing in the corner, not doing much. I mean, they're doing their job, like, making sure it's safe. But I was. I just. All of a sudden, this thought came in that was like, go talk to the policeman. And so I'm like, okay. So I go over there. I'm like, hi. My son lost his Backpack full of rocks. And he's really sad. They're really important to him. Do you have any idea how we could get that back? And he was like, well, you know, you're already through security. You could call the lost and found number, but let me go check and see if it's still there. And I was like, no way. So obviously he's a cop. He can, like, do whatever he wants. So he walks back. He just walks right through the security doors, goes and checks the toy store, and he's walking back holding the backpack. And Jack was so happy. I was like, like, no way. He just. It was that easy. He just went and grabbed it and walked back with the bag of rocks.
- [50:07]
A
Life is easier when you just stop and ask the Holy Spirit. That's what you're so good at. You're so good at just stopping and like. Because I'm. I try to, like, logic my way through things so many times and like, let's just. Let's brute force fix this thing. And I feel like so many times you're just like, you'll stop, you'll ask the Holy Spirit. That's why I will not make a single decision that's a significant decision without running it by you. And I think that's what's made our marriage really sweet too, is.
- [50:31]
B
Yeah.
- [50:32]
A
It really does feel like we're.
- [50:33]
B
We're in it together.
- [50:34]
A
Yeah. We're on the same team.
- [50:35]
B
Yeah. I think something that I thought would be kind of good to talk about is just the fact that as a wife and mom, a stay at home mom, like, your ministry is much more outward facing. The followers, the platform. And I think a lot of times, you know, just speaking about moms, like, we can feel like our life is kind of hidden and sometimes lonely and monotonous and like, just. You're like, Carrie, we were talking about it my. With my coach. She's just, you know, so such a gem. But she was just talking about how when she was a mom, she just felt like all she was doing was opening and shutting, like, loading the dishwasher, unloading the dishwasher, loading the washing machine. Unloading the washing machine, opening the diaper. Yeah.
- [51:28]
A
Shutting the diaper, putting the kid in
- [51:29]
B
the car seat, taking the kid out of the car seat, like, what am I even doing? But lies can come in and be. And the enemy can be like, you're insignificant. All you do is, you know, these mundane tasks, and that's just such a lie. When you were in Nigeria, I got a text from my friend Kelly that Was like, thinking of you, you know, you're storing up treasures in heaven. And I was like, what? Like I needed to hear that, that I'm storing up treasures in heaven too. You're out there, you know, talking to persecuted Christians who've gotten shot in the face, but I am storing up treasures in heaven here, holding this space in the home with my kids. And just as much as you are, because we're a team, like, I'm also investing in eternity and the eternal souls of our kids. And so I just didn't realize how much I needed to hear that, that I was also, you know, doing kingdom work. And I think I just want to speak to the moms directly, any moms out there. You know, you may feel like you're living this hidden life and like all you're doing is loading and unloading things and, you know, changing poopy diapers. But God sees every selfless act, every poopy diaper change, he sees it all. And he delights in how you are continuing to sacrificially serve your family. And so you are storing up treasures in heaven. And don't let the enemy convince you that you are insignificant because you're literally investing in the eternal souls of your children. And that is the most important thing.
- [53:11]
A
Amen.
- [53:12]
B
So I think the enemy can come in with lies and really attack the family. The. And get, you know, break down the family by going for the moms and, and telling them lies and saying, look at this mom over here. She seems like she has it all together. Her house is clean, you know, and she, she doesn't seem to be stressed out. She doesn't seem to ever lose it, lose her temper with her kids. Like, what's wrong with me? Why do I feel like raging at my k. Am I losing my patience so quickly? Like, and you know what? I'm. What's wrong with me that I can't be like this other mom. But that is just so. Comparison is just such a thief of, of joy. And I think it's just really important to not partner with those lies and to have even a third party outside of your marriage, like a friend, a truth teller that can just remind you of what's true about you and call out those lies too. Amen.
- [54:14]
A
So that's so good. And I'd speak to the husbands too, if you truly believe that your wife is storing up treasures in heaven by doing the quote unquote mundane tasks of momming, of changing the poopy diapers, of unloading the dishwasher, of Unbuckling the kids from the car seats of putting them down for naps. If you truly believe theologically that they're storing up just as many treasures in heaven by pouring into your children these eternal beings, then as Christ in the picture of Christ in the church, in the marriage, your call is to look at your wife and to honor her for that and to say, babe, I'm so thankful for all these unseen things that you do. I believe that you're storing up so many treasures in heaven. Thank you for investing in our children the way you do. Stop and honor her and. And don't just say the words. I think it's easy sometimes to say the words and to not feel the words, to not hold her and give her a hug and then look her in the eyes and say it. I think that's what women need to hear sometimes, is just that they're valuable and totally. And that their role is. Is indispensable. That I couldn't do what I do without you.
- [55:23]
B
Yeah.
- [55:24]
A
I tell you that all the time. Like, I. I literally couldn't do it. You know, like, all the. All the adventures and all the ministry and all this stuff. Like, if there was not got a safe haven and a safe person to come home to and in a family that you're cultivating. That we're cultivating. I couldn't do it. Yeah.
- [55:44]
B
And I. And God isn't, like, more pleased with numbers.
- [55:48]
A
No.
- [55:48]
B
With stages.
- [55:49]
A
He's not more pleased with my ministry than he is with your ministry. It's our ministry.
- [55:53]
B
That it can be hard, very hard to believe that. I don't know why we're so obsessed with. With, you know, an influential ministry means reaching thousands, millions of people. It's like, you know, but, you know, moms can. I think. We think, like, oh, once my kids are a little older, then I can, like, finally start my ministry or do my thing. And it's like, no, your ministry is right now.
- [56:22]
A
Yeah.
- [56:22]
B
And, yeah, it. Sometimes it's not enjoyable. Like, we were talking about that the other day when they're all melting down and freaking out. You're like, oh, my gosh. Like, dude, it's not always a fun job.
- [56:37]
A
I think of the. The widow who gave the might. And Jesus says, you've given more than everyone. Like, you could look at as a mom. You can look at these massive, fruitful ministries. You can look at Lisa Bevere, or you could look at Jenny Allen. Love her too. But, like, you can look at these women who are doing incredible things and be like, guess I'M just not doing much.
- [56:57]
B
Their kids are grown, though, now.
- [56:59]
A
That's true. But we need to understand that the kingdom of God is upside down, backwards, and beautiful that way. Because the widow who gave the might in the kingdom, he wasn't saying here on earth, you gave more. He wasn't like logically saying you gave more money than they did. He doesn't say, you gave more money. She didn't give more money. You gave more. What does that mean? What does it mean that the widow who gave the might gave more than the rest of them because it wasn't money? What it means is that in the kingdom of God, God cares about your faithfulness with what you have and that there's something in the kingdom. So for all you moms out there that are pouring out, that are cleaning the dishes, that are cleaning the dirty diapers, that are cleaning the messes off the kids faces and off the markers off the walls, like, you're giving your widow's might, and in the kingdom, you're giving more than reaching stadiums, because that's not your call right now. That's not your role right now.
- [57:50]
B
But. And I remember Lisa looking at me when she was here and saying, like, you're not too late. Like, you're right here where God wants you. She didn't start writing books till a little later. She raised four. Four boys and was primarily a mom with them. You know, so we also. You also have to think about. You can't compare. Like, and God has a certain calling for certain people and. Yeah. And just to be like, I'm gonna do all these tasks for the glory of God, even when no one else sees it.
- [58:29]
A
Amen. Amen. So share a little bit about your journey with anxiety.
- [58:35]
B
Well, the devo is it's kind of focused on helping you through anxiety with gratitude.
- [58:43]
A
Right, right. Which. Which is what I learned.
- [58:46]
B
Yeah.
- [58:47]
A
From doing it wrong. So when. When we first got married, Annie would have panic attacks, and I, as a coach, thinking I knew what I was doing, would tell her to do push ups.
- [58:59]
B
Yeah. Your response was kind of like, yeah, let out. Like, I think you thought it was so physical. Like, let out.
- [59:08]
A
That's the only thing I could relate to. The only thing I could relate to. When you feel a little stressed, just go work out.
- [59:12]
B
You were trying, but I was trying,
- [59:14]
A
but it was so misguided. And then I started having panic attacks, and I'm like, if. If I would have been in your shoes and someone would have told me to do a freaking push up in the middle of my Panic attack. I would have punched him in the face, you know what I mean? Like, like I just didn't understand. I was so ignorant to. To what it was. And so then began my journey. After helping you, I'm sure in some good ways, but also some very not so good ways. I had to kind of learn how to manage these feelings that I was having of feeling like I can't get my muscles to calm down, like I can't get my chest to get on
- [59:51]
B
tight, heart rate or your heart.
- [59:52]
A
I couldn't get my mind to stop ruminating and racing and I would just wake up and it's just the most uncomfortable feeling in the world. And so then began my journey to figure out how to. To not feel this horrific feeling of anxiety. And so I went to the scriptures. It's the worst feeling. And so I said, I want to know what the Bible says about anxiety and how to heal from anxiety. And I was shocked. It was like every single passage on anxiety had two things. It had gratitude and it had prayer. So I thought, okay, well, I want to make a devotional. That one allows you to hear from God's word, that allows you to like, we will pray over you. We do prayers in this. We do breathing exercises. And then you journal what I'm grateful for. So you write that. And you made the list, babe. You made the list on this day. And I'm grateful for you. And then burdens I give to Jesus because 1st Peter 5, 6, 7 says, caster cares onto him, for he cares for you. And so we're gonna give thanks because gratitude is an anxiety buster. And then we're going to cast our cares onto Jesus because they're too much for our soul to bear. We were made for Eden. We weren't made for this world. And so Jesus is saying, hey, I will take them like I took them on the cross. I will continually take your anxiety, throw them onto me. And then I think when you can get out of ruminating on self and you can think of others, which is what we do here, we write down people we're praying for and then we pray for them, that's an anxiety killer. Because at the center of the word anxiety is I. And that might be offensive for some people, but when you are constantly ruminating
- [61:34]
B
on your own thoughts, it is, it is all consuming. Like, it is very inward and you are focused on yourself. It's not like you're trying to be prideful. Obviously it's terrible, but like, it does make you focus inward on yourself.
- [61:48]
A
Totally. Yep, yep. So if you guys want to check out Gratitude Reset, you can go. The link is in the show notes or it's in the description.
- [61:56]
B
Yeah, it's a really pretty book, too.
- [61:58]
A
I've been getting high off my own supply, too. So I've been doing this. I've been going through it. It's good. It's good stuff. The journaling's the best. Oh, and if you don't like reading, there's a QR code you can scan. You can listen to it, too. Yeah. I'm proud of it. I love it. Thank you.
- [62:15]
B
Thank you.
- [62:16]
A
Let's go through some practical takeaways that people can take into their marriage. You can. What do you got?
- [62:22]
B
I think number one, stay tender towards each other. You know, be quick to apologize, quick to release the bitterness. Staying soft. Staying tender towards each other would be. Would be the marriage takeaway. And then
- [62:38]
A
I'd say with that, you now know the statistics. We just told you. One in 1152 couples that pray together out loud will not be divorced. I'm sorry. Will be only one in 1152 couples that pray together out loud will be divorced. So it's virtually impossible to get divorced if you pray together. If you hear that, and then you don't go and pray with your spouse, you're crazy. You're just crazy. Like.
- [63:03]
B
Yeah.
- [63:03]
A
And I know it feels uncomfortable for the dudes and, you know, like, you don't feel like you're very good at it or very spiritual. I guarantee your wives are not going to be judging your prayer.
- [63:12]
B
No. They will think it's very sweet no
- [63:15]
A
matter what you say, and it will honor and bless them and your children and you, and it will safeguard your marriage from spiritual attacks. It'll knit you guys together a strand of three cords at the foot of the cross, and you do it every day, and you'll have a beautiful marriage.
- [63:33]
B
Yeah. Two, I think, seal the cracks in terms of protecting your family and staying safe, stay secure. And. Yeah. Making sure you're just regularly confessing to repentance is a regular, daily thing. And just making sure that no one's watching weird movies and listening to, like, what you listen to, what you going to yoga, doing anything. Anything that could open doors, be an open door for the enemy. Because the enemy can only come in through an open door.
- [64:11]
A
Yes.
- [64:11]
B
You know, where it's not like, oh, he's just really attacking me more lately. Because X, Y, and Z, it's like, well, there's an open door. You can't just walk in like, you. You're Covered by the blood. So, you know, it's not too late, though, to, like, get rid of those things. Denounce those things in Jesus name and plead the blood of Jesus. So sealing the cracks, you know, over your family and home and marriage and what's one more thing, I think last thing. Just. Just having. Making sure to have a truth teller in your life.
- [64:51]
A
Yeah, that's good.
- [64:53]
B
You know, whether that's, you know, obviously your husband can be that for you, your wife can be that for you, but a friend who's just. Who will go right in and say you're believing a lie like this is. This is what's true of you. Yes. And remind you of that.
- [65:10]
A
Faithful are the wounds of a friend. Profuse are the kisses of an enemy. Find someone who loves you enough to say something that's going to hurt you and potentially put the relationship in jeopardy. Because they love you that much, they're willing to sword thrust the word of God, which pierces joints and marrow into your life, life, to convict you, to put you back on the right track, even if it might cost friendship. We both have people like that in our lives that will tell us the truth, no matter the cost. And if you guys are looking for that, there's a ministry out there, a nonprofit that I'm a part of called sharethestruggle.org you can go get a coach like Annie has.
- [65:50]
B
She's not with Share the Struggle anymore, but she used to be. She used to be.
- [65:54]
A
Yeah. And, yeah, founder through shared Struggle. But yeah, you guys can go connect with someone who will pray with you, who has the skill sets to walk you through tough stuff in your life. We'll also put that link in the show notes, but it's an honor to have you, Andy Miller, on the Jesus People podcast.
- [66:11]
B
Thanks, babe.
- [66:12]
A
Yeah, Love you very much.
- [66:14]
B
Love you.
- [66:15]
A
And we'll have to run it back. We'll have to do it again.
- [66:17]
B
We'll see, we'll see. We'll see if people want another one.
- [66:21]
A
My favorite episode we've ever done.
- [66:22]
B
Yeah.
- [66:23]
A
Love you. Love you guys. Thank you for tuning in the Jesus People podcast. Go give your husband or your wife big hug and kiss. Tell them you love them, you appreciate them, and if you don't have a wife or husband yet, pray for them. The prayers of a righteous person availeth much. And we'll see you guys next week.