082 | A Heritage Of Miracles, Part Two w/Special Guest Richard Roberts

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jesus the Healer w/ Nancy Dufresne Audio Podcast Episode: 082 | A Heritage Of Miracles, Part Two w/Special Guest Richard Roberts
Release Date: October 25, 2022
Host/Author: Dufresne Ministries
Special Guest: Richard Roberts

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Introduction

In Episode 082 of Jesus the Healer, Nancy Dufresne welcomes special guest Richard Roberts to delve deeper into the legacy of miraculous works within the Christian faith. The discussion centers around faith, healing, the renewing of the mind, and the enduring power of following the Holy Spirit. The episode sets the stage by acknowledging the contributions of Kenneth Copeland Ministries and establishing a tone of divine empowerment and spiritual connection from the outset.

The Double Portion Anointing

Timestamp: 02:27 – 04:00

Richard Roberts initiates the conversation by highlighting his connection to Kenneth Copeland and his experiences growing up alongside his father, Oral Roberts—a prominent figure in the healing revival movement of the mid-20th century. He shares a personal testimony about seeking a "double portion anointing" from his father, which mirrors the biblical story of Elisha asking Elijah for a double share of his spirit.

Notable Quote:

“As I got older in ministry, I asked him for a double portion of his Spirit. I saw Bible precedent. Elisha asked for a double portion, and he got it.”
— Kenneth Copeland [02:27]

Roberts recounts a pivotal moment in 2009 when, at his father’s passing, two angels appeared to him, symbolizing the fulfillment of the double portion prophecy. This divine encounter marked the beginning of a transformative era in his life and ministry, equipping him with enhanced spiritual gifts and a deeper understanding of his purpose.

Ministry and Building Projects

Timestamp: 07:13 – 09:21

Kenneth Copeland shares his extensive involvement in building Oral Roberts University (ORU), emphasizing reliance on faith rather than financial resources. He describes the method of initiating construction with minimal funds, relying on seed planting through prayer and witnessing God's provision miraculously.

Notable Quote:

“We planted seed in that hole that we dug and prayed and watched God bring a building out.”
— Kenneth Copeland [08:47]

Copeland highlights multiple instances where financial needs were met supernaturally, reinforcing the belief in God's provision. He recounts specific miracles, such as receiving large sums of money overnight to cover payroll, underscoring the consistent manifestation of faith-driven financial breakthroughs.

Financial Miracles and Faith

Timestamp: 09:25 – 14:33

The discussion shifts to the financial challenges faced during Copeland's presidency at ORU. He describes inheriting significant debt and the ensuing struggles to meet financial obligations. However, his unwavering faith and strategic sowing of tithes and offerings led to repeated financial miracles.

Notable Quote:

“At the precise moment that we had to have funds, 17 times out of the blue, I received gifts of a million dollars.”
— Kenneth Copeland [10:29]

Copeland emphasizes the importance of faith, belief in God’s promises, and the practice of tithing even in dire circumstances. This approach not only alleviated financial burdens but also strengthened his reliance on divine intervention.

Overcoming Opposition and Persecution

Timestamp: 17:47 – 20:44

Roberts and Copeland address the inevitable opposition faced by those in the healing ministry. They discuss how the devil opposes ministries that promote healing and prophecy, as these force a departure from spiritual bondage and ignorance.

Notable Quote:

“He hates that [the healing ministry] because he's the author of sickness. So he doesn't want you to be well where the Bible says God wants you to be well in every area of your life.”
— Kenneth Copeland [18:19]

Copeland shares personal experiences of persecution, including mockery, physical assaults, and public criticism. He underscores the resilience required to maintain faith amidst adversity, drawing parallels to biblical figures like Apostle Paul who remained steadfast despite intense suffering.

Personal Loss and Forgiveness

Timestamp: 21:51 – 24:26

The conversation takes a poignant turn as Copeland opens up about personal tragedies, including the accidental death of his mother and the loss of siblings. He explores the profound impact these losses had on his faith journey and emphasizes the healing power of forgiveness.

Notable Quote:

“One of the ways that you get through it is you forgive the person. You don't have to forgive what they did. What they did was wrong, but you can forgive the person.”
— Kenneth Copeland [23:19]

Copeland explains how forgiveness liberated him from bitterness and allowed him to maintain his strength and positive attitude. This practice of releasing grudges is presented as a cornerstone of emotional and spiritual well-being.

The Power of Joy and Rejoicing

Timestamp: 15:42 – 16:53

Highlighting the transformative power of joy, Copeland discusses how embracing joy can serve as a conduit for divine strength. He relates this to his own experience of overcoming financial despair by adopting a joyful demeanor, which in turn attracted further miracles.

Notable Quote:

“The Bible says the joy of the Lord is your strength. And the joy of the Lord came into my life. I began to laugh at what I was facing.”
— Kenneth Copeland [15:51]

Roberts and Copeland illustrate how rejoicing in the midst of trials not only uplifts the spirit but also acts as a catalyst for supernatural intervention and breakthroughs.

Conclusion and Closing Prayer

In the closing segment, Copeland reinforces the necessity of making decisive choices to align one's life with God's will. He urges listeners to declare victory over Satanic attacks and to embrace healing through faith.

Notable Quote:

“In the authority of Jesus name, I pray over you right now. I rebuke this satanic attack of the devil. I curse it, I bind it, and I send the word of healing to you right now in Jesus name.”
— Kenneth Copeland [26:37]

The episode concludes with heartfelt blessings and an invitation to future events, emphasizing the ongoing journey of faith and healing.

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Key Takeaways

• Faith as Foundation: Reliance on unwavering faith and divine promises is crucial in overcoming challenges.
• Miraculous Provision: Financial and personal miracles are attainable through dedicated prayer, tithing, and belief.
• Resilience Amidst Opposition: Stand firm in faith despite external criticisms and persecution.
• Healing Through Forgiveness: Letting go of grudges fosters emotional and spiritual health.
• Joy as Strength: Embracing joy can lead to increased divine intervention and personal breakthroughs.

Final Thoughts

Episode 082 of Jesus the Healer offers a profound exploration of living a faith-filled life enriched with miracles and healing. Through personal testimonies and biblical insights, Richard Roberts and Kenneth Copeland inspire listeners to deepen their faith, embrace joy, and trust in God's limitless provision and healing power.

For more inspirational messages and upcoming events, visit Dufresne Ministries or Defrain Ministries.

Transcript

[Nancy Dufresne]

Thank you to Kenneth Copeland Ministries for sowing the airtime for this broadcast.

[Richard Roberts]

There's enough power in every sick room and in every hospital room to raise up that sick one that may be describing you. You may be in a sick room, you may be in a hospital room. And I want to remind you, power is present. That power is there to do a work, believe in what's not. Try to get something, but notice that he's already made it yours. It's present right where you're at. Say, I receive that power.

[Kenneth Copeland]

I receive that power.

[Richard Roberts]

I receive it right now.

[Kenneth Copeland]

I receive it right now.

[Richard Roberts]

From the top of my head.

[Kenneth Copeland]

From the top of my head.

[Richard Roberts]

The soles of my feet.

[Kenneth Copeland]

The soles of my feet.

[Richard Roberts]

I am so glad to welcome you to Jesus the Healer today. Thank you for joining us. And I tell you what, you're going to be so glad you did, because I got a special guest again today, Brother Richard Robinson, all the way from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Thank you for coming out and being with us today.

[Kenneth Copeland]

It's an honor and a joy to be here with you and to be in this great church here in Murrieta.

[Richard Roberts]

Well, I tell you what, I saw you. I hadn't seen you, of course, we've known each other for years, but I got to see you again in a service, probably about 2017. You were holding a miracle service for Brother Copeland's ministers meeting. And when I saw that anointing on you, I said, we got to get him in the church. And we are so glad we brought him in the church.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Well, I've told people all over the world, this is my favorite church, World Harvest in Murietta. I'd rather preach here than just about any place else I've ever been. And I've been some places in my life. I'm so glad to come here. So I'm inviting myself back, all right?

[Richard Roberts]

Yes, sir. Anytime. And we're glad this is one of the churches you're at.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Okay, I'll see you next week, then.

[Richard Roberts]

Yes, we'll be here. You be here. We were talking on a previous episode a lot about your dad, of course. He was a general in the Body of Christ throughout that healing revival that happened from 1947, 1958, and continued on for years, being on televisions. And you traveled with him, you ministered alongside of him. But there were some things that, you know, you got imparted from him. I want you to talk a little bit about because you've shared with me some about what we would call a double portion anointing. I want. Tell us the story around that for your life.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Well, I wanted to be like him, especially when I gave my heart to the Lord, which. Which I did when I was 19. The older I get, the more they say I look like him. I look more like my father. In fact, I got into an elevator and a woman said, oh, look, there goes Oral Roberts. And her husband said, no, that's not Oral. That's Richard. And I turned around and said, it's all right. Jesus said, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father. But I wanted to be like him. And as I got older in ministry, I asked him for a double portion of his Spirit. I saw Bible precedent. Elisha asked for a double portion, and he got it. And since God is no respect to persons, I believe that I could get a double portion of the Spirit. That was on my father. And he said to me what? Elijah said to Elisha, son, you've asked a hard thing, but if you see me when I go, you'll have it. Now, at the time, I was living in Oklahoma. He was living here in California. How can I see him? But that's not what he meant. What it meant was, as long as I keep my eyes on Jesus, that I can have it. And it came, and he told me, by the way, someone is watching right now. You have a. Yeah, yeah. You have a crooked left foot. Your left foot goes outwards. It's twisted outwards, not inwards. It's twisted outwards, and it's causing you much grief. And God's healing you. Your foot is just straightening out right now. In the name of Jesus, you'll be able to know who you are. Please contact Pastor Nancy's ministry and let her know about your foot.

[Richard Roberts]

Praise the Lord.

[Kenneth Copeland]

That's an operation of the word of knowledge.

[Richard Roberts]

Yes.

[Kenneth Copeland]

And I lost what I was talking about. Well, oh, the double portion.

[Richard Roberts]

Yes.

[Kenneth Copeland]

I had asked him for that. And when it came down to him dying, he said, very soon you'll have that double portion. Well, I knew what that meant. I knew that it wouldn't be long. He would be on this earth now.

[Richard Roberts]

He went home to be with the Lord. What age?

[Kenneth Copeland]

He was 91 in 2009. And it had been prophesied over him when he would go home. And he went home exactly when the prophetic word said, but I was in the room when he died, and his eyes. He was semi. In a semi coma, but his eyes were looking at me, and my eyes were looking at him. And I watched as all the machinery that was on him in the hospital. I watched all the needles and the dials go down and down and down. And then I saw it flatline. And I knew he was gone. And I leaned up in my chair. I was at the foot of his bed, just me. And I leaned up, and I heard a noise, and I thought it was the doctors and nurses coming in, but there was no doctor. There was no nurse there. And I looked over, and I saw two angels come through the ceiling. Now, I had known people who had seen angels. I'd heard people describe what they had seen, but I had never seen an angel.

[Richard Roberts]

Really?

[Kenneth Copeland]

Yeah. And I saw two of them, and one of them was tall enough that his head touched the ceiling. The other was taller. And I couldn't see his head. I could only see him from the neck down because his head was above the ceiling. That's how big they were. They were massive. Right. And I watched as they. Two of them, they reached down and took his spirit, picked it up out of his body and began to lift it to the ceiling. And then I stood, and I started to yell, because that's what Elisha did. He said, my God. My God. The chariots of Israel, Lord of hosts. And I began to yell. And all of a sudden, as they took his spirit up, I saw what looked to me like a mantle. Now, I'm talking about in the spirit now.

[Richard Roberts]

Right, right.

[Kenneth Copeland]

I saw what appeared to be a mantle come down, and I just reached out and said, that is mine. And that double portion came on me. And he had told me, my father had told me that was what was going to happen. That's how it would happen. And it happened. Exactly. And a new era of my life and my ministry began that day. And I've never been the same since. Now, that was in 2009. That was, what, 13 years ago. And I'm not the same person that I was at that time because of that double portion.

[Richard Roberts]

And it was an immediate marking on your life.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Oh, immediately. Immediately I began to feel things in my body that I would say from words of knowledge that I never said before. And there was much more in my life, a depth that I had never had before that came. And the same thing happened to Elisha.

[Richard Roberts]

You know, what if somebody's watching and they say, well, I want to. I want to place where I can get a double portion anointing. Because when you look at Elisha sticking with Elijah, it wasn't like he just came and saw Elijah every once in a while. He stayed. He served the man of God.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Well, Elijah tried To drive him off, remember?

[Richard Roberts]

Yes, I did.

[Kenneth Copeland]

I'm going to Bethel. You stay here. Nope, I'm going with you. I'm going here. You stay here. No, I'm going with you. You better hang around it. People say, well, I want the healing ministry. Well, then hang around somebody who has a healing ministry.

[Richard Roberts]

Good.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Someone who has the authentic healing ministry. And so I hungry. And my father tried to drive me away.

[Richard Roberts]

Is that right?

[Kenneth Copeland]

When I was a young man. And I said, you can't drive me away. And I said, why are you trying to drive me away? He said, I want to make sure that you have a real calling and a desire for the healing ministry. And if you can be driven away, I will drive you away. But if you can't be driven away, that's how I know you're real. And I said, you can't drive me away.

[Richard Roberts]

So good. But you served alongside him how many years?

[Kenneth Copeland]

40 ministries.

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Whatever he did, I did. Whatever he said, I said. Wherever he went, I went.

[Richard Roberts]

So it's not something you just get up in a ministry line and say, lay hands on me. I want a double portion anointing. It's about being faithful and serving.

[Kenneth Copeland]

I'm a 40 year overnight success.

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah. Longest night in history, right? Yeah. You were alongside your dad at the building of Oral Roberts University. Do you remember how many buildings off the top of your head did y' all build that were on that campus we had talked about in the past? You'd have to.

[Kenneth Copeland]

I had a picture in my mind. At least 15.

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah. And you were there for all of them?

[Kenneth Copeland]

All of them.

[Richard Roberts]

You were telling me how you started a building when it was time to build. Y' all would go out and do.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Something, get a couple of shovels and dig a hole and throw some money in that hole and begin to pray and believe that God would fill it.

[Richard Roberts]

And you never started with all the funds in hand?

[Kenneth Copeland]

No, we never started with any. We never had a dime to build any of it. We just. We planted seed in that hole that we dug and prayed and watched God bring a building out.

[Richard Roberts]

And that happened time and time.

[Kenneth Copeland]

We paid for it, you know?

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah, you paid cash as you went.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Time and time again. Yeah, we paid cash as we went. And sometimes the media would get all over us because we'd run out of money, and the building would sit there for a while without any work being done because we'd run out of money, and they'd print it on the newspaper. Orals run out of money again. You know, it happened.

[Richard Roberts]

What kind of Financial miracles did you see during that time?

[Kenneth Copeland]

Well, when a need would arise, we would get together and we would pray and God would supply the need. And that's been the story all the way through. And when I became president of the university and I inherited a debt at the precise moment that I would have to have finances, when the real crunch came, finances would show up. But we tithed and we sowed offerings out of every dollar that came in to the ministry and to the university. We tithed off of it. And the accountant said, you can't do that. I said, oh, yes, we're going to do that. And at the precise moment that we had to have funds, 17 times out of the blue, I received gifts of a million dollars. Seventeen times, once two million dollars, once we prayed that we had to have. I remember once we had to have $800,000 by the next morning, and somebody in the group called and said, we're going to believe it's going to come in by FedEx the next morning, we got a FedEx for $800,000 out of the blue. And every Friday, I was going to.

[Richard Roberts]

Say, because every Friday you had to meet a large number.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Well, I had 2100 employees, and we pared it down some later to about 1,400, but. But I had to have a certain amount every Friday, and I can't remember a Thursday that we had it. But somehow, supernaturally, it would show up. It was a working of miracles.

[Richard Roberts]

And you saw them repeatedly?

[Kenneth Copeland]

Repeatedly every week.

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah, I love sitting and listening to those testimonies, because what do you do when you come up to nothing? And that's that your ministry demonstrated that for the body of Christ over and over again, right?

[Kenneth Copeland]

You learn how to use your faith. You learn how to believe God. You learn how to stand on the word because you've got nothing else to stand on.

[Richard Roberts]

Talk to me because you were. I've heard you minister along this line, and it's so important for believers, it's so important for pastors, ministers. You took over the presidency when it had a lot of debt and you stepped into that role at that time, and when it tried to weigh down on you and the knowledge God gave you about there was a turning point for you. Talk about that.

[Kenneth Copeland]

We had never had any debt, but because of some things that happened, we got into debt by no design, right? And when my dad stepped down, they handed me. They put the medallion around my neck, marched me down the aisle and announced I was the president now. And then they handed me the debt.

[Richard Roberts]

Just a little welcome gift there.

[Kenneth Copeland]

It'll make a man out of you, I can tell you that. But it was a constant struggle, Pastor. But I stood on my faith, but I had a wife who stood by my side and believed with me. Now she, you know, your husband and wife, you're different. You're opposites in many ways. She had a gift for believing for money, and I didn't. I had a gift for believing in healing. For healing, and she didn't. So she worked on me believing for money. I worked on believing for healing.

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kenneth Copeland]

And it was a kind of a little divine reciprocity we had going there. And she never has had a worry, a single worry about money in her life. But I have had continual worry during those years. I've never had a single worry about healing. And she's fought for believing for healing all of her life. So we balanced each other off. But she would stand by me in faith and say that somehow, some way, we're planting this seed. God's going to meet this need. And it was contagious. It got on me, and it got on me so much that I stopped worrying about it. I stopped fretting about it. I stopped losing sleep because it had literally driven me out of my mind.

[Richard Roberts]

And remember, you would talk about the time that she would tell you, you're not coming in the house until I.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Would come home with that heavy. I would come home with that heavy debt load and problem on me. And she would meet me at the back door and say, don't come in the house until you shake that off. And sometime took a while to shake that off. You know, After a while, I got. After a while, I got hungry. I said, I better shake this thing off. I'm not going to eat dinner tonight. Because I would come home and I'd bring all that in the house, that spirit, because it was on me. And she would say, don't come in here until you shake that off. And she was doing me a favor, sure. But the time came when I crossed over. And I knew beyond any shadow of doubt that no matter what happened, God was going to see me through. And he did. Every time. I cannot estimate the number of times that it appeared we were not going to be able to make payroll, because I had a $600,000 payroll every Friday.

[Richard Roberts]

It's amazing. Yeah.

[Kenneth Copeland]

And I can't remember a Thursday when we had the money, but it always came. Every Friday.

[Richard Roberts]

It always came.

[Kenneth Copeland]

It was a working of miracles. And I got to the point where I knew I planted my seed. I knew God was going to come through, and he did every time. Never once did we miss you went.

[Richard Roberts]

To a meeting and there broke out a certain flow.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Yes.

[Richard Roberts]

You know what I'm referring to.

[Kenneth Copeland]

He was talking about the joy of the Lord. Yes. That transformed my life because I had been in a hole, you know, I was having nightmares and dreams that the university was going to go under, it was going to go under, under my leadership here, my dad and the board turns to me and I let it go down the drain. And that's when the joy of the Lord came into my life. And God began to show me that he was going to bring me out. And Lindsay had kept saying it to me and saying it to me and saying it to me until finally I believed it. I got ahold of what she was saying because she was giving me the word of God. And it took hold of my life. And suddenly, it's not that I didn't care, but the care of it sure was lifted off of me. And suddenly I knew. There's a time in life when, you know, you don't just believe, you know that God's going to bring you through. You don't know how, you don't know who he's going to do it through. You don't actually exactly know when, but you know he's going to do it. And I came to that point where I knew he was going to bring us through, and he did every time.

[Richard Roberts]

And you were in that particular service and you just broke out after having been under the weight of that thing for so long, you broke out just laughing hysterically.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Well, the Bible says the joy of the Lord is your strength. And be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might. How can you be strong unless you have joy, which is your strength? And the joy of the Lord came into my life. I began to laugh at what I was facing. And the more I laughed, the more miracles came. And that went on for several years in my life. And I preached on it wherever I.

[Richard Roberts]

Went at that point.

[Kenneth Copeland]

I preached on it in your church one day.

[Richard Roberts]

Yes, you did. At that point. Did it ever. Did you ever have to deal with that? The weight of that burden of that financial. Again, that was the end of it.

[Kenneth Copeland]

That was gone. I've never faced that again. And I pray I never face it. But if I do face it now, you know what to do? If I should now I know exactly what to do.

[Richard Roberts]

Right.

[Kenneth Copeland]

I know that because I have seed in the ground, I know that my God shall supply all my need according to his riches and glory by Christ Jesus. I know it.

[Richard Roberts]

And we're authorized to rejoice because we know it.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Yeah. And so therefore I rejoice.

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah.

[Kenneth Copeland]

I'm calling and I'm calling the victory in advance.

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah. Joy is a conductor of his strength.

[Kenneth Copeland]

And it's contagious.

[Richard Roberts]

Yes, it is. You get around someone rejoicing, and it stirs that flow. Yes, it stirs that flow. You have, not just in ministry, but just in personal life, much opposition. And we were talking about it the other day because the devil and my husband used to talk about this because of the strong healing. He had a tangible healing anointing on his life. And he would talk about how the devil hated the healing ministry because Jesus went everywhere teaching preaching and healing. And you talked about, because my husband also saw it, the opposition to that healing ministry. So it wasn't just in ministry that you had opposition. Just in everyday life, there were things that were quite remarkable that came against you. Can you talk a little bit about some of that?

[Kenneth Copeland]

Well, let me talk about your husband for a moment. Dr. Ed had both healing gifting, but he also had a prophetic gifting. And those are the two things that Satan hates the most. He hates the healing ministry because he's the author of sickness. So he doesn't want you to be well where the Bible says God wants you to be well in every area of your life. 3 John 2 Beloved, I wish above all things that you prosper and be in health, which is healing, even as your soul prospers. And he hates that. But he also hates the prophetic because it's showing people what's going to happen and what's going to happen to him.

[Richard Roberts]

Yes.

[Kenneth Copeland]

And so he hated that about Dr. Ed, and he hates that about the healing ministry. He hates that about anybody who's in the prophetic gifting. Well, me and the healing ministry. Lindsay has this prophetic gifting on her life. So we face it, as you said. I don't remember a time when we've not been persecuted and criticized. Even when I was just in school, you know, the kids would mock and laugh and joke and bring newspaper articles and magazine articles.

[Richard Roberts]

Well, and you said one time that. Correct me on the wording, 70% of Americans knew your dad's name.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Oh, no. At one point, at one point in the 1970s, he had a 94% name recognition.

[Richard Roberts]

Name recognition.

[Kenneth Copeland]

94% of Americans had heard of Oral Roberts.

[Richard Roberts]

And so you got in on the flow of that recognition.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Sure, I was with him wherever he went. But as a Young kid, he was on television. And by the time I was 19, I was singing on his TV program on a weekly basis.

[Richard Roberts]

But I mean, even in school growing up, I mean, the teachers would harass you because you were his son.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Not just the students, but the teachers as well. Sometimes they'd call me out in class and humiliate me and embarrass me, and it turned me against God. I said, if this is Christianity, if this is the way I'm going to be treated, then I want out of this. That's one of the reasons why I rebelled and ran away from home. I wanted to get out. And also because of the way the church treated him, much of the church persecuted him as well. They persecuted him because they didn't believe in healing. They persecuted him because they thought that he was a heretic, because he prayed in tongues. And they certainly did not like the seed faith message because he was a.

[Richard Roberts]

Pioneer in these things. When you're a point man in these things, you get all the. You're the target for all these things.

[Kenneth Copeland]

The denomination that he was a member of at that time called him before the general board and called him a heretic and said, you're not preaching the Bible concerning the seed faith message. And he said to them, if you say it again to me, I'll never darken the door of one of your denominational churches again. And he finally wound up leaving that group because they believed that he was not preaching the Bible when he knew he was and I knew he was. And I was there with him through all those years.

[Richard Roberts]

And you can stand firm when you know that you're on the word. You know, you just stand firm in the opposition. But so much of opposition, like I said, ministry. Absolutely. Personally though, too.

[Kenneth Copeland]

But, you know, it's amazing. They criticize when they started doing what he. And I remember one night, oh, it must have been 20 years ago or so, he and I were in his home in California, and we were watching television, Christian station. And there was a man preaching. And he started criticizing my dad on the air. And my dad and I were just sitting there watching, listening to the man criticize him. He's in a service, and when he finished criticizing, he said, and now we will receive our seed faith offering. My dad started laughing so hard, he fell off the couch into the floor laughing. He said, well, they hate me, but they sure love the message that I brought.

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah. And so in that. And I say this because I want people to know out there who are facing things, how to get through it. And you've had a child to die. You've had two of your siblings to die prematurely.

[Kenneth Copeland]

My mother died accidentally from a fall.

[Richard Roberts]

Mm. Mm. Talk to us a little bit about that. For people who are watching that are.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Dealing with situations in life, you're gonna go through some things.

[Richard Roberts]

Yes.

[Kenneth Copeland]

You are not immune to the attack of the devil. And higher levels, higher devils, is all I can say. You face things in life. Look at the apostle Paul. You know, we revere him, we lift him high, but look what the man went through. Beaten, whipped, stoned, jailed, shipwrecked, snake bitten. Wherever the guy went. Wherever the guy went, he was hit.

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Well, you find out what you're made of when you hit. Look at Paul and Silas in prison. They've been beaten and put in chains, and yet at midnight, they began to sing and worship. Not because they were giving thanks that they had been chosen to be beaten, but in spite of it. In the middle of it, they were praising God. And look what God did. He caused an earthquake to come, shook the prison. They wound up releasing, being released, and they wound up winning the jailer and his whole family to the Lord. Everywhere he went, he was attacked. And that's what I feel like oftentimes in my life. That's what I grew up under, and that's what I have faced all my life. But you know what? I love God. And no matter what comes, I'm not going to be stopped. Now, it's hard to stop somebody who believes.

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah, that's good.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Who lives and who bears the marks of the gospel in their body. Now, I've never been imprisoned. I pray that I never am. But I bear the marks of the gospel in my body for what I have been through. And sometimes the words that they have said have hurt much more than the pain of an outward pain. I've had people walk up and strike me in the face. I've had people come and spit in my face. I've had things written and said that are so far from the truth, I don't even recognize the person they're describing. I've been maligned. I've been cheated. I've been stolen from. Not much that hasn't been done against me, but all the way through, I've said, God, I forgive them. And I think that's the real secret.

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kenneth Copeland]

When something comes against you, one of the ways that you get through it is you forgive the person. You don't have to forgive what they did. What they did was wrong, but you can forgive the person. And I think that's one of the great secrets of my life is, and why I'm so healthy and why I'm so strong and I have such a good attitude is because I let all that unforgiveness go. I let it go. Give it to God. Give. Give them to God. They're God's problem.

[Richard Roberts]

Well. And you can't control what comes against you, but you can control what goes in you.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Yeah. You can't control people. There's some rough folks out there.

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah. Yeah. But what is for us shields us from what comes against us.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Exactly. Well, it protects you. It helps you to get through it. David said, yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. He went through it, but he went through it.

[Richard Roberts]

And, too, talking about how when you were facing the financial situation as president of oru, the flow of joy, because Paul, I mean, he's sitting in one of the darkest places a man can find himself sitting in prison. And he says, rejoice in the Lord always. And again, I say, rejoice. And people don't realize that that is an exit road. Yeah, an exit. Right.

[Kenneth Copeland]

What did it take for him to do that?

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah, yeah. And no one in there, you know, preaching to him and encouraging him. He did it himself. He drew up out of himself. And that's the thing, that. How many years now you've been drawing on that life on the inside, that faith that's on the inside, that this is for the living. It's not just for the preaching. This is what we live.

[Kenneth Copeland]

Well, it's a way of life.

[Richard Roberts]

It is our way of life.

[Kenneth Copeland]

It's a way of life.

[Richard Roberts]

Yeah. And you and Sister Lindsay have been such an example, such a blessing to so, so many people. The healing ministry that has gone on through your daily broadcast, your weekly broadcast before that, you said on the previous episode, what was it? How many episodes have you filmed?

[Kenneth Copeland]

I think I've done about 15,000 television shows.

[Richard Roberts]

And that healing ministry, that healing anointing coming through. But before we. Before we end today, I'd like for you just to pray for those who are watching.

[Kenneth Copeland]

I'd be happy to do that. And also, let me just say one more thing. In life, you have to make decisions. You have to decide. There is no indecision. You either decide or you decide not to decide.

[Richard Roberts]

That's right.

[Kenneth Copeland]

I've decided that I'm going to live and declare the works of the Lord. There's a decision. I crossed over the river. I've made a decision how I'm going to live my life and I'm not going backwards now. That's my faith talking.

[Richard Roberts]

Yes, sir.

[Kenneth Copeland]

And I think every one of you needs to do that in your life. You draw a line in the sand and say, satan, no, you can't have me. You can't have my family, you can't have my finances. You can't have my health, you can't have my emotions. You can't have my job. You can't have my business. You can't have me. So in the authority of Jesus name, I pray over you right now. I rebuke this satanic attack of the devil. I curse it, I bind it, and I send the word of healing to you right now in Jesus name.

[Richard Roberts]

Brother Richard, thank you so much for being with us and we say God bless you and we'll see you next time on Jesus the Healer. God bless you.

[Nancy Dufresne]

To watch or listen to today's message and other messages by Nancy Dufresne, visit dufresneministries.org Please join us for our annual Holy Ghost Meetings in Marietta, California, January 6th through the 11th, 2023 with Nancy Dufresne. We are also excited to welcome Kenneth Copeland and Richard Roberts as our special guests. For more information, please visit our [e-mail] we trust you've enjoyed this message. Visit [e-mail] to learn of our upcoming meetings, share your testimony, submit a prayer request or visit our online store. Thank you to the friends and partners of defrain Ministries for making this production possible.