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- [00:01]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
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Jason Stockwood
Saying that out loud is crazy. Like that is huge. But all the cool opportunities could pull us apart.
- [00:44]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
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- [00:57]
Jimmy (Podcast Host)
subscribers to from supply welcome back to Jimmy's Jobs of the Future. I hope you had a very refreshing Christmas and have had an excellent start to 2026. Today I'm joined by Jason Stockwood and he hits some of the key metrics for Jimmy's Jobs of the future. He's involved with government as the Minister of State for Investment. His prior career to that was being a successful entrepreneur working at many different UK scale ups. And he's involved with football, being the chairman of Grimsby Town Football Club. I've been talking to Jason about getting him on for a long time. When he was made the Minister of State for Investment last year by Keir Starmer, I was like we've got to do this now. So it was great to get him on chat all about the role, how he's kind of measuring the KPIs, etc. And also we ended up going quite deep into some stuff about his personal life which I hadn't been anticipating and I hadn't known about before either. But it made for a really interesting interview to you, so I hope you'll enjoy listening to this as much as I did. Recording thanks very much for listening on to today's episode. Make sure you subscribe so we can continue to get bigger and bigger guests.
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Jimmy (Interviewer)
So Jason, welcome to Jimmy's Jobs of the Future.
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Jason Stockwood
Thanks a lot.
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Jimmy (Interviewer)
I feel like this has been one of the longest recordings in the pipeline for ages. I think when we first chatted about it three or four years ago in the early days, I was looking at your LinkedIn profile earlier and I was delighted to see you've got the House of Lords, Investment Minister, etc, but before all of that, entrepreneur is still there. So I feel like you tick more boxes than anyone we've had because you're also heavily involved with Grimsby Football Club, which we'll come on to as well. First, I think you've got one of the most fascinating jobs in Government in terms of the Investment Minister. But what is the job?
- [02:44]
Jason Stockwood
Well, firstly, thanks for having me and I know you've had some patience going backwards, but I think I've got something to say now, hopefully as well, after all these years. And it's funny, I was at an event last night and someone introduced me as a. As a former entrepreneur. I'm still. I'm still like, my career isn't over as a result of taking this on. I hope not, anyway. I hope it's not over. But, yeah, I mean, the. I do think it's probably one of the best jobs in Government, so, you know, it really is probably the least political, I would say, is that it really. And it's been great because I've spoke to some of the previous incumbents, particularly, you know, before Poppy, so Joe Grimston and Lloyd Johnston as well. It's really about how do we capitalise some of the major projects in the uk. So one of the things that isn't as clearly articulated, I think, is that we've got a modern industrial strategy, we've got a plan for turning around the economy and growing the economy. And really, my job and the team's job is to get out there and make sure we've got capital to do that. So secondary responsibility is sort of being the voice of government, so the voice of business within government as well. I was a little bit nervous coming in as my first government role of what I would find, because the role sits between the Treasury Department of business and number 10.
- [03:54]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [03:54]
Jason Stockwood
And so I was a bit nervous about what I'd find in the treasury from the sort of things you read in the paper. But, you know, it was important to me to be part of a government that was pro business, pro growth, pro wealth creation. So. So three months in, that's definitely true. And so the sort of secondary role when I was coming in was really being that voice of entrepreneurship and business within government as well. And I guess the third bit is really about, you know, if there are people that want to invest in the uk, the Office of Investment just works as sort of concierge and tries to make life easy for them. So, you know, how we help Them navigate our systems, our legislation, you know, visas sometimes as well. So we try and just try to make the UK the most attractive place to invest.
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Jimmy (Interviewer)
And how do you sort of. What are the kind of like KPIs that you're measured against?
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Jason Stockwood
Well, it's funny because like when I came in. So. Well, you'll notice from your time in government, it's really weird. You sort of get the call and then you look for the induction and the welcome and you just turn up and you're doing the job straight away. So I had a few weeks to think about it, so I wrote myself a 90 day plan, as you would as a CEO. And I'm just coming to the end of that now pre Christmas and it really was to decide that. So it was to a set the clarity of purpose and direction for the team, set the ownership structures and priorities, both for the organization and for myself, work on the team itself and then work on the deliverables. And so we're in that process now of working out but. But without giving you the detail, the numbers, the sort of things are, you know, how we affect sort of the gdp, how we look at number of deals come through, how we look at them, jobs created, you know, how we look at. I'm particularly interested in where we influence deals. So making sure that we're just not passive recipients of people coming to invest in the UK because you know, you know, I never took government money in any of my businesses so I turned up to places because I wanted to do business and want to work in those places. So I'm keen to make sure that we're value added as well. So we've got a team of people and prior to Christmas we'll have those numbers. But broadly what we're trying to do is help the economic growth story.
- [05:52]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah. And how it's funny because I think back to my time in number 10 and the two things whenever we're doing trade trips or anything like that was what is the investment figure that they're putting forward and what are the number of jobs that are kind of created. And it was funny because before going into number 10, I was a bit skeptical sometimes of these kind of like big announcements and so on. But actually a trade trip or an investment summit or something like that really does actually focus the mind and get it all kind of pulled together. What have you sort of got planned for 2026 in terms of that?
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Jason Stockwood
Yeah, that is a bit, that took a bit of adjusting to. I know it's only sort of four months, but Everything is accelerating, but there is that whole thing around events, galvanized people, as you say, to actually put. So there's. There's almost an infinite amount of complexity and deals and things that you could be working on in government, which is. We should talk about why it's. I mean, reformer talking about having business leaders run government. That is a terrible idea. And I can come back to why I think that's a terrible idea. You need business people in government, but all business people running them would be awful because of something beyond deals. But I mean, the US deal I think I was in for a couple of weeks and there's $150 billion of investment both ways. And it's really important that, you know, it just focuses the team on saying, what can we deliver that we can announce? But importantly, the OFI is the delivery mechanism for a lot of those deals as well. I think what I was slightly skeptical was it's just a big headline number and then kind of so what you move on to the next one. But there's a whole delivery mechanism that's behind that. And then importantly for me, one of the things. And this is a personal metric rather than an RFI metric, like, how does it, how does it impact particularly our regional growth? Because I think part of the reason I've come into politics is this sense that these big headline numbers are quite meaningless. If you're from Grimsby and you hear 150 billion in data centers and sort of life sciences, but like, people are like, my electricity bill is still too high, my mortgage is too high. So trying to work out how does that translate to the electorate more broadly and how does it impact people's lives. Yeah, but so for next year. So in the first three months would been, you know, in India with the Prime Minister, in Saudi with the Chancellor. I was in China last week. So more of the same, I'm trying to have a sequence of travel every month. So we're both, we've got this perspective projects and, you know, the, the industrial strategy growth areas that we want to focus on. So making sure that we're, we're, we're pitching those to global investors. And that's a sequence that every month I'm trying to get. Although civil service told me you can't plan for longer than three months. But I'm trying to get scheduled to travel for the whole year so I can get out and do the job sell in the UK and then, you know, just being really structured around the delivery of the industrial strategy. We've got these eight sectors well defined, focused on our key capabilities and making sure that there's plenty of capital to get those things going.
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Jimmy (Interviewer)
What surprised you about the job in the first three, four months?
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Jason Stockwood
Do you know, one of the things. It's quite prosaic, but I used to, I've talked a lot about, and this comes up to that point around being in business is that I used to find that time was fungible. I could find time for everything that I wanted to do by working a bit late, a bit longer or getting some extra resource on stuff. And there's just. You can't do that in government. There's just, there's, there's, you know, nearly everyone you meet has got a different view of what they want to see from government. So you combine that by, you know, 60 plus million people in the UK and then all the international people we're seeing. So, so the, the discipline of prioritizing is, is, is 10x what I did as a CEO.
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Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
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Jason Stockwood
That's interesting to me. And, and I have to be really disciplined around where you spend your time. I'm saying no to a lot. I'm being disciplined around what are the priorities. Because you just get. So there's five. I've got five people who manage my time now, which is just ridiculous. I don't see my emails anymore in the same way I used to. I've got this pathology around. I used to try and clear my emails every day as a CEO. It's just not possible anymore. So I think just being really disciplined around. What are the, what are the things that you can move and influence?
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Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
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Jason Stockwood
And you have that as a CEO. But I think it's, it's 10x in this job because the demands on your time and then there's a, there's a, there's a. There's a sense of pace that I'm trying to put through this in myself. And we talk about football.
- [10:06]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Right.
- [10:06]
Jason Stockwood
I feel like it's the first time I can speak to our football managers at Grimsby and feel like, you know, you're going to get sacked at some point in this job and that's inevitable about being in politics. So, so I'm trying to. I said to my wife and kids, I was like, look, I'm. I'm going to be fully on seven days a week for however long. I've got this because I want to make sure, when I look back on it, I. I've left everything on the pitch and I've done as much as I can to influence positive growth in the UK and I had that as a CEO, but I'd sort of dialed that back and got a bit more balance in my life since I stopped being a CEO and I've just turned that back on. I'm quite enjoying it, but it is clearer. Priorities, infinite options that you don't have. And then there's just a bit about, yeah, how decisions are made as well. I mean, this is well documented in the public and that. But these are the complexity of decision making. When you're not just talking about growth, but you're talking about national security, you're looking at international relations, trade deals, you know, or diplomatic relations, there's a bunch of complexity that is both fascinating and frustrating in equal measure. And this is why business leaders shouldn't just be running government. Because, you know, I take a lot of advice obviously on security, on foreign relations, on diplomacy. And you just don't have that experience as a business leader. And that's, that's, that's just a level of difference that you, you, you can remember being. It's just business looks a lot easier.
- [11:24]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yes.
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Jason Stockwood
Now I'm doing this just by the same. You have products, you have services, you have your team, your organization. It's all pretty well structured. Yeah. And the nuance and complexity required in this is just, it's fascinating. But it's, it's, it's, it's, it's an adjustment.
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Jimmy (Interviewer)
It's quite like direct levers, like in being an entrepreneur, like products and so on. And it's funny you say that about time because I always say to the team here that best thing about being an entrepreneur is that you are actually in control the money. If you want more sales, send more sales email. Like it's quite sort of, you know, related. But yeah, when you're in government, it's yeah. Completely different.
- [11:59]
Jason Stockwood
I like, yeah, that's that just to build on that. Because I used to feel like, you know, in simply business, my last business, if there was a. I've always, you know, really empowered the team and really enjoyed being part of a group. But if there's a specific issue you have to apply yourself to, you just used to force yourself into an issue and just. And you could buy personal will and capability, really change the direction of that. And that only goes so far in government because there are, there's our second and third order consequences you're not thinking about as well. So your ability to direct stuff immediately, it's still there. But I've spent, I spent the first three months and four months making sure I'm building Relationships and particularly because we're across different of government and that's even
- [12:37]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
more important, that makes it even, even more complex. Are we. So what do you make of the kind of like perception of Britain at the moment, both from outside, across the world, but also from Britain itself? Because it strikes me we might be in danger of talking ourselves down a bit.
- [12:58]
Jason Stockwood
Yeah, I think, I think it's a really brilliant observation and, and notwithstanding being full of cold and a little lack of an energy today, part of the role is, is trying to make sure we change that perspective. I mean the, the there's note that you can't be a pessimistic entrepreneur, right? You just want you, you can't do it.
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Jimmy (Podcast Host)
Right.
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Jason Stockwood
So there's something about, we all know that sentiment and your own personal energy and optimism makes the difference on projects, right. And yet I'm seeing that quite a lot, the perception and the reality, like I'm more. This might sound like a weird statement, but I'm actually more optimistic having been in government for three months, because I can see there's this mismatch between. The analogy that I've been using is that we're in a turnaround rather than sort of 14 years of, you know, decline and debt and whatever. I'm saying, no, look, we won the election first year is doing that remedial work in the turnaround, acknowledging where we are, but we own it now. Let's kick on. And we've got a plan. And we have got a plan. The industrial strategy, the infrastructure strategy, our relationships internationally. We've got a plan to execute on this, which has actually been validated by economists. When you look at the rate of inflation coming down, you know, our relative positions on savings, on consumer confidence, on debt, it actually is, it's going to work, right? And I feel that confident about it. And yet if you turn on the telly, you look on social media, the world's going to hell in the handcart. And I was in Saudi a couple of weeks ago and, and they're talking about like all, how's it in London at the moment, all the stabbings. Yeah, you know, I'm just like this, this, this idea that we live in this super unsafe city and I'm just like, so there's something weird. Some of that is probably bad actors, you know, making sure that that's, that that's a story, that they're a narrative, they want to pedal. But part of is ourselves, right? We've got to get out there and we've got to, you know, puff A chest out a little bit and tell the positive story, particularly relative to the place in the world. And so I want to be doing a part of wanting to come up, come and speak to you is that, and tell that story right. Like entrepreneurs will, will recognize this is that, you know, you, you talk yourself into reality somewhat as well. And I think as I, as I get into this role now, I feel really confident about the medium to long term prognosis. But you know, it's not as political as other parts of government. So when, when I see people, you know, talking about leadership chance, I'm like, look, we've got really serious high quality people running this government and liking football managers. The, the illusion that changing a manager changes trajectory is, is wrong, but from a data point of view and a reality point of view and we just got to get on telling that positive narrative and hopefully people giving us the benefit of the doubt because ultimately, you know, you know, your trajectory on something is curviline. It goes up and down. But as long as the trajectory is up and, and the trend is up, that's what we want. I think we're on that trajectory and we'll have good days and bad days, but the overall trend is up. And yet the, the media sort of cycle and the impatience that we have is that as soon as we go slightly down, people want change. I think that's a really, really bad idea.
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Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah, yeah.
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Jason Stockwood
And another thing I've seen in government as well is like we're, we need to do a better job at storytelling telling that story. I think that's well understood and I want to be part of that. But yes, sentiment and confidence as an entrepreneur is, is such, is such a massive part of success as well as luck and timing. Hard work gets you so far, but telling that the positive story and focus on that is important.
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Jimmy (Interviewer)
So what is the story that you're telling when you're going out on these trips abroad and so on?
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Jason Stockwood
Well, I mean it's fairly straightforward actually. We talk about like stability in sort of the geopolitical, the geopolitical situation that we're in the UK from you know, the Magna Cart 11th century onwards. Like we've got this rule of law and this system of operating that we shouldn't underestimate and the sense that we have deep cultural and, and law abiding ways of doing business and commerce and our relative position in the world that is valuable and people see that and they value that and we don't think about that often enough. They then have that we have you know, for the where's and wifores of Brexit. Like we are where we are.
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Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
We.
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Jason Stockwood
We have this ability to redefine our trading relationships in the world and again we're doing that quietly and the Prime Minister's not getting enough credit for this. But the deal we did with America, when you think of perhaps some of our ideological difference is amazing. Right. And got that done. First one in the world, preferential terms. And that wasn't obvious prior to that. So same thing with India, same thing that we're doing in the Middle east. The gcc. Now we're stepping back into our relationships with China. We're getting close to Europe. 4 to 6% of GDP depending on what you read there or the closest trading partner. And so we're redefining our positions and we're able to do that. And then there's some really obvious stuff like our deep R and D base, our universes for the top 10 universities, our deep access to capital structures and so our professional services go on and on and on and we just need to keep telling that story that when you go around the world we've still got a really positive image globally and I think we just need to remind ourselves of that sometimes our relative position relative to other countries is really strong. Yeah I think it was Deloitte put something out that we, you know we. We are the most attractive investable country in the world still. And we sort of forget that sometimes.
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Jimmy (Interviewer)
I think definitely. What did you. You spoke to previous holders at the office. What was their kind of advice? What were the top tips that they gave one.
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Jason Stockwood
But actually they all enjoyed the job with varying degrees of like time time spent. I think the record was only two years I think.
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Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
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Jason Stockwood
Jerry Grimston so. But they've all been great and yeah just, just being really clear about what you want deliver yourself because if you get, if you get. If you allow your diary to manage you.
- [18:34]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
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Jason Stockwood
You can endlessly be meeting interesting people with, with their own particular things they want to talk to you about. So really defining what you want to achieve. So I've spent the last three months thinking quite clearly about that and I'll pulling out some of that stuff early in the year but going there are specific projects where I want to personally influence that.
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Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
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Jason Stockwood
And I have a massive bias towards regional development. Naturally from where I'm from I think that's going to be important. So I want to spend some time on that. But actually just defining, you know, what are the things that you uniquely can press ahead with the all said that and hopeful just try and see if you can last longer than a couple of years. That'd be ideal as well, wouldn't it? Which is a fairly low bar, doesn't it but which is again something different about politics. Right. You don't go into any job thinking if I make it to two years that'll have been. I'll be the longest hold of this role, you know. But that's definitely what I'm trying to do is is have some longevity in this. I can deliver as much as I can.
- [19:22]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Let's talk a little bit about your kind of like early career because it's, it's kind of amazing kind of reading through some of the places that you've worked at like it feels like reading the kind of history of British tech almost in terms of like lastminute.com match Skyscanner, like some fascinating roles. How did you end up@lastminute.com so I
- [19:43]
Jason Stockwood
always say that like and I've sort of appreciate this, I've got older that you know hard work is a necessary condition for any success but it's not, it's not, it's not sufficient as well. So I had a massive amount of luck that I've always been. So I started off as a waiter on the docks in call centers, traveled a lot, drifted around quite a bit and then studied philosophy as a mature student just because I was into it and I was interested and I came to London. I was going to go back and do a PhD in York in political science and I came to London basically to go clubbing in the 90s and I worked at Trail Finds a travel place and I ended up staying for five years. Probably enjoyed that a bit more than I should all but then the Internet was starting to come about into public consciousness and I just started to read. I was like this isn't interesting. I had no idea the scope or scale of what it would be. But I started to read up on it and I saw this job and I was working in travel and basically saw this, this advertisement for this new, this new Internet company. I was like oh, it just sounds cool. And because I've been reading up on it. I remember I met, I met the head of HR and I'd been reading up and she went oh, you know a lot about But I just was into it. And so I got the job running the airlines bit and the commercial bit and I, I didn't know the number but I think Brent put something out there. I was like employee 30 or something that So I was just, I just was like into it and was lucky and then a massive amount look there. Because it was a, it was a real meritocracy. I mean, I just, it was the first place I'd ever walked into and just felt, this is cool. I feel like it was, you know, businesses that we take for granted now that it was just one floor and yeah, yeah, if you had, I mean, I remember you having to courage your conviction, you go, Brent and Martha, the CEOs. And if you had to courage your convictions, you're prepared to put yourself out there, they would just give you responsibility. So it was, it was. And then we just got really lucky that, you know, it floated before the bubble burst and stuff. So, you know, profit wasn't a high motivation in the business at the time. And so it was just a real stroke of luck being in the right place, the right time. And then, and then it became like dog years. Is that if you've been in the Internet by 2002 and you have three or four years experience, you were experiencing the Internet and so stuff started coming up. And I left in 2005, I think I'd got promoted to run a couple of companies that we'd bought eventually. And again, just being in the right place at the right time, we bought 12 companies, I think. And so the idea that they would give someone 33 or 34, two companies to run was just unheard of with my background.
- [22:03]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [22:03]
Jason Stockwood
And they just would like. Because then it was a grafter. They just gave me these, this opportunity. And then the match stuff came. Match came about because I was Internet dating. I met my wife on the Guardian website. I remember telling my mates about it and them laughing so hard about the fact that I was on like those Internet's for losers and you know, you're weirdo. And I was thinking, I don't think I'm that. But you know, if, if we're buying travel and books, this, this might be a big thing.
- [22:27]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [22:28]
Jason Stockwood
And so, yeah, the opportunity to take match throughout Europe and stuff. And so again, it was just been slightly ahead, but it was, yeah, a lot. I've always been a grafter and I think that's the Grimsby thing. But at the same time, I think just being born in the 90s when the Internet was coming into public consciousness, that's nothing to do with me, but I grabbed it. I definitely grabbed the opportunity.
- [22:51]
Jimmy (Podcast Host)
Okay, so this isn't your usual ad read. We've just partnered with Hunch, an AI job finding platform that I believe in. So much I've actually invested in it. If you've ever listened to Jimmy's jobs and thought, I'd love to work with those guests now, you can. Whether it's the UK government, Google, Amazon or the BBC, Hunch makes it easy to discover and apply for roles at companies like those. And here's the kicker. We'll be hiring through Hunch soon too. So if you download it, you might even end up working with us. Honestly, for our listeners, this feels like the perfect fit. Just visit askhunch.com to learn more. Back to the episode.
- [23:31]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
What did sort of working on the docs and the waiting side of things. What did that kind of like teach you for the rest of your career?
- [23:38]
Jason Stockwood
Well, I mean, I always like people, so I like, you know, the Grimsby thing is like, it's very open community, people talk, people like chat. I like, I like that. So I always enjoyed working behind bars and waiting on. But like, bit of humility as well. I remember one time I. I played a football game for the county and the team was coming back to the place. I was a waiter, so I actually played the game and then had to go back and serve the players that I played against. I remember that being really tough for me. So lessons in, like, I need to make money because we were skins and humility and just not being bothered by that stuff. So just a bit of a. A thick skin on, you know, what, doing what you have to do to get by and stuff. And the doctor was the same thing. I was skinned. I'd come back from. I've been. I'd. I got a scholarship school in America and then I came back and I. I went on a kibbutz in Israel just because I wanted to travel a bit more. And I was skinned and I came back and I worked on the docks because it's the only job I could get.
- [24:27]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
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Jason Stockwood
And so just, just the necessity of having to earn money. But I also realized, like, I wasn't cut out for manual labor. I was like, like, what was the
- [24:35]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
job on the docks?
- [24:36]
Jason Stockwood
I was a general laborer. So I was like, wherever the jobs went day I supposed to do some painting or I do like lugging stuff off ships or cleaning conveyor belts. It was, it was always the job. The company we worked for did the jobs that the company's employees didn't want to do themselves. It was always the, it was the, it was the, it was the rough stuff. And I was just like, I do not want to do this. It's really hard and there's Some good people, some of us say now and about in Grimster and Cleatos, but I was like, I need to get my act together. Like, I don't, I can't, I can't see myself doing this for 50 years. And that's no disrespect for people at Campbells. Like, I am not cut out for this. So it was just, it was just a good level for me, you know, just. And also it's a reminder now, like, you know, sitting in balance. Doing a podcast isn't hard, you know, compared to what people really graft and do. It gives me real perspective and real respect for knowing what hard work looks like.
- [25:25]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [25:26]
Jason Stockwood
And this isn't it.
- [25:27]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah,
- [25:30]
Jason Stockwood
but it's. But it's not like I getting up at like half five in the morning, being picked up to be on the docks for 6 o' clock and, you know, working with your hands all day, like that is a shift. That is proper hard work. I've got a real respect for that.
- [25:42]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
What did your parents do?
- [25:44]
Jason Stockwood
Well, my. I'm a single parent family, so I'm one of four boys all got different dads. I don't know my dad is. So I've never met him. Don't even know he is. My mum passed a couple of years ago, so I'm not, I'm not going to find out. But my mom was a grafter. Loads of different jobs, so she was a debt collector, she was a cleaner. She did anything she needed to do just to keep her sort of fed and watered, basically. So it wasn't. I wasn't ideal, but I was, I reconciled myself as I got older. She did the best she could for us and yeah, a lot of respect for when we got our relationship into a good position by the time she passed. And I was just like, yeah, look, I've got three buds and we're really close. I love them all. Well, we've got different dads. But like, when I look at the, the Start ad in life and the fact that I'm connected to my brothers, you know, I've got a real solid, my wife and my kids for the last 20 years. I'm part of a community that I love and I feel connected to even though I don't live in Grimsby anymore. And so, yeah, my mom, my mum did a good job. She. The hand she was dealt in life, she played it really, really well. Her dad killed himself when she was 12. He committed suicide and they never spoke about that stuff. So she had a lot of trauma in her child and he found this out later on. So, Adam, you know, unpicking that as you think about having your own kids and family and the sort of parent you want to be. My mum did an amazing job in tough circumstances. And, yeah, you just have to make sure that you get that to a decent spot. And I wrote an article in the Guardian, actually, I had that column in the Guardian that's on my Twitter. And I'm really proud of that. When she died, I just felt sadder that I didn't feel sadder about it. Like, I was upset about it, but the fact that I wasn't as close to her as I see another relationship like my wife's family, the love and connection and traditional family they've got is. Is really powerful and really profound. And I had to get to that with my mom because my mom was out working and we sort of brought ourselves up with my nana and it was. It was rough, but it was. But it was. It was what it. It was. It wasn't actually. I'll tell you something interesting. So my. My son, when he was 8, he's 14 now. When he was 8, he said something to me and to this day I'm. He's is a really smart kid, as is my daughter. But I was telling him about. So I was really honest with my kids about not knowing my dad and the sort of upbringing I had. And my mum was married three times and. And one of them was a boozer and a bit. A bit physical and. And so. But I also was gonna be honest with my kids. I was telling my lad this and he turned around to me and said to me, when he was 8, he thought, do you think your disadvantages growing up are your advantages now in your life and have made you. And I was like, Christ, if he. He's eight and he's saying stuff like that. But there is some truth in that. Like, as long as you get through all those things and any trauma that you have that you. The resilience. And I'm not scared of stuff like probably my wife thinks I've got a bit of my brain missing. The ability to turn up and be a government minister with no training is not. It's weird.
- [28:28]
Jimmy (Podcast Host)
Right.
- [28:29]
Jason Stockwood
But I was just excited about it.
- [28:31]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [28:31]
Jason Stockwood
But I don't have that sort of fear because I, you know, I know what. What life can be.
- [28:37]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [28:37]
Jason Stockwood
As an alternative. So. And a lot of entrepreneurs have that, don't they are the Nordivergent or they have, you know, tough childhoods or whatever. And I think it's you know, if you're able to work through that stuff, it's really powerful in terms of resilience and capability. But I went quite deep, didn't it? I brought the mood down a little bit. I'm trying to something uplifting speech about. About the economy and I'm just like,
- [28:59]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
yeah, it's about trauma, I think as well. Like, part of it is you could, you know how bad things can be and I think it'll be. Find it quite good in politics in terms of the, you know, idea that you might be sacked or whatever. Like, I feel felt this was just that. Well, you know, the background that my dad had as a coal miner and, you know, whatever. I was just like, it's not going to be like that, like. And. And if you've had that growing up, you. It just gives you a lot more kind of respect and resilience, I think, really for it.
- [29:32]
Jason Stockwood
Yeah. And it also sounds grandiose in that, but it's, you know, I'm doing it for. I'm doing this job for kids like me in the 70s and 80s, like, we were never short of food, but we were cold a lot. I remember, like, so I used to go to school, I told my wife, I used to school my pajamas under my clothes because I'd like so cold in the house. We had ice inside. And this was. This wasn't particularly unusual in the 70s and 80s. Right. As well. But like, it sounds like some character from a Dickens novel. You tell your kids now, but I remember being cold a lot and so there's something about. I was really proud, like being in the treasury last week when we looked at the 2 child benefit cap and thinking, no, this kids like me. That makes a difference too. Yeah, genuinely makes a difference. And we can get into all the politics of like, you know, is it welfare? You know, is it. Is it. Is it promoting wealth? I'm like, actually there are kids that it will make a difference to their lives because I was one of those kids. And so there's something about. For me, there's a really deep connection and thread back to who I, who I was then. It's still me now that I remind myself. And actually this is why I feel like I love being in Grinch, like going to football every week or hang out with my brothers, as I'll be doing this weekend, and my mates from school is that I'm the same person to them that I was. No matter what you do in your life and where you go, I love that about being in the town. Look I'm not being false, modest. I know the stuff after the career I've had.
- [30:53]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [30:53]
Jason Stockwood
But most people don't give a about that. They're just like, you're the guy that they've known for years. And whilst they're proud of me, they treat me as, as one of their own, which, and I love that because, you know, it's a reminder of, for me, it's like when I came into politics, a friend of mine, Rob Griffiths, said to me, just remember, you know, ask yourself the question all the meetings you're in, would this translate to your brothers? Would this translate to your mate Spencer, who's a scaffolder still? Would it translate to, you know, your nieces and nephews that are there? So when I think about that 150 billion data center, I'm like, they don't care about that. It's like, what's it do? Is that bringing their gas bills down?
- [31:29]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [31:29]
Jason Stockwood
So it's a good reminder. But it's also, there's a deep love and connection to those that people in the town still that, that's really meaningful for me and it's enriching for me as well.
- [31:40]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
So let's go back to the career because we did that sort of almost the first third of it perhaps. But then you set up simply business. Right. Like what was the opportunity that you saw there? And like how did that sort of.
- [31:51]
Jason Stockwood
Yeah, so I didn't say. Oh, so what happened was. So I much got sold. So it was owned by IAC and it was great and it was, it was a bit early for me but I was trying to do a deal to a French listed company and an amazing, amazing entrepreneur there actually did a reverse and went to my boss at the time, bought the bit of the company I was running. So it was a weird situation that 8 was a lesson in, in deal making but I ended up with a few quid. But it was unsatisfactory ending for me because I was enjoying the job, enjoying the company. They asked me to stick around but like, it was just, it was challenging working for, you know, French entrepreneurs. Should we say? Let's leave that out there. So, so I end up this weird situation. I had a few quid but like I was only 39 then. I was like, so. So I tried to take a year out, we'll just start our first kid and like within three months my wife was like, get back to work, will you? Just like get out of the house. This is not going to work for us or anything. So I just Started to look at market again, like just being a bit early on stuff and this wasn't particularly. So I started do this, this sort of spreadsheet and calculus on, on. I had a boss years ago that gave me some advice and it didn't make sense for me for about 10 years. She was retiring and I said to her, if you had your career again, what would you do in the travel industry? And she said, oh, I'd pick an industry with high margins. And I was like, you know, that's the best advice you can give your younger self. But like 10 years later. And as I was doing this, I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense to me because the ability to work in a market that's high margins gives you so much more flexibility and freedom.
- [33:22]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [33:23]
Jason Stockwood
So I created this spreadsheet around high margin industries, low customer satisfaction, tech innovation low. And just like everything led to the insurance industry, like customers hate it, like the margins are insane compared to other industries. There's a lot of people who we know that are ridiculously wealthy from doing very little in that industry. And this is. I'm not a lot of friends in the industry now, by the way. And it's moved on a bit by the time I was like, this is, this is where I need to be. And not because, like, I was passionate about insurance, but because I was like the. I can see my skills and the things I know being applied here. So an opportunity came up. Chris Slater, who became my partner in this, had founded it with a few hundred people, but it was, it was doing lots of different things. It was trying to be an aggregator, it was trying to be an invoice lender. So. So I always tell the story. I met Chris and I knew nothing about insurance and I needed him to stick around. And he's a, he's from Salt, he sends his from Salford. Like he's an odd man, but he's actually from Worsley, which is the posh bar Salford. But anyway, we met, we met in on Euston Station and two things about this meeting were good. So I was, I'd been with my wife for a while, but we weren't married. So I said to Chris, I'm getting married next month, so if I start, I'm getting married. And he went, is it your second or third time? So I was like, totally set his stall out. That's my first time. But the second thing was I said, look, I need you because I've got no insurance knowledge, so I need you. He's been in the industry for Years and he said to me, I'll give you six months kind of thing. I said to him, I'll only need three. So we had this really sort of macho exchange. Anyway, he's become one of my best mates now and I love him and he's like, we had this great journey together but so we went in and we quite quickly corrected. We changed all the technology. We sold the three heads of business that were underperforming and focused on insurance. And the insight from Skyscanner was. Skyscanner was a really thin model of like technology, really clever technology and data play, but basically didn't own the customer vertical. So I said look, to really own the value you've got to go top to bottom and a, that protects against a market change but also you can take a piece of the value every stage. So we became in commercial insurance, we hadn't been done before, we became an aggregator but we also owned the product. So we insurer claims. And then the clever thing that we did is we became, we decided machine learning and, and unique pricing for customers. And this was like in again with a bit of luck in 2012, sort of fintech became this big investable thing. Like it was around but. And so again we had a business that was on a trajectory. We changed the cap table, bought some private equity in and then just got a bit lucky on the growth and then, and then sold it three times quite quickly and had an exit in 2017 for 500 million which was both luck and judgment. But it just felt like. Yeah, but it was a great ride. But it was. Yeah. Chris set it up and then we, I just basically with, together we refined it into a real tech play.
- [36:14]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [36:15]
Jason Stockwood
And a tech business that really understood. But it was, it was the stuff that was doing in other industries it was just web standards but in the insurance industry it was unheard of. So it was like being the tallest midget or whatever the right saying is. I've just, I just knew what we could do and it was quite straightforward to me. And then we just built a great culture around it that was fun and progressive before, you know, working from home and four day weeks for a thing.
- [36:35]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [36:35]
Jason Stockwood
And we just found that empowering people just allowed us to deliver with a product mentality and it just. Yeah, it was great fun. It was, it was. I'm really proud of it. And what I'm really proud of, a journalist asked me a couple of years ago, what's the proudest moment in your career? And without thinking I was like simply business got Better when I left. I speak to people there all the time, that all the metrics have improved. It's a lot bigger, you know, it's profitable, but hugely profitable. And I was like, I was really proud of the fact that it wasn't reliant on me and Chris.
- [37:02]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [37:02]
Jason Stockwood
That when we left, like, the team that was there have done an even better job. And so the fact that it's built to last.
- [37:08]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [37:08]
Jason Stockwood
Is something that I thought about, but I'm really proud that it continues. Got like over a million customers now and. And so, yeah, that was. It was a great journey.
- [37:16]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah. Yeah. No, that's quite a good measure, actually, of, like. Yeah. Can the, can the show carry on without you? And. And then you got involved with Grimsby. Right. Like. Like, how did that come about? Etc.
- [37:34]
Jason Stockwood
God, this is. This is a long one, actually. So I'll try and condense it because that'll bore you and people listening.
- [37:40]
Jimmy (Podcast Host)
A quick thanks to Octopus Energy for supporting this episode. Now, a lot of people know about Octopus for their home energy products. I have recommended people switch them for years. But what you might not know is that they are now rolling out more products across home and businesses from solar panels, EV chargers, heat pumps. So if you're thinking of upgrading your home or business, and you are a Jimmy's Jobs listener, you can ping Jimmy at Octopus Dot Energy and get the very latest deals and insights. And if you're already on the journey with Octopus, leave us a comment or a message. I'd love to hear how it's going with their wider products. All right, back to the episode.
- [38:16]
Jason Stockwood
So I. There's two answers to that. So one is like, I'm a fan. I've been going to that club since I was. Since like 8 or 9 years old, my first game. And so there's just a sense that the club was struggling. It was on a downward trajectory and kind of looking around for a universe of people that could do something. And this is in a big universe of people that want to buy Vince McTown Football Club. So me and. Me and a guy, Andrew Pettit, who's now really close friend. Brilliant. We didn't know each. We knew each other's families. This is a Grimsby thing. So my, my brother dated his sister when we were kids, but his family is really funny. So he runs a, like a 5 billion quid private equity fund in properties from Grimsby, but his dad was the local butcher. So when we, when we get interviewed, it's like, oh, there's Jason, who's a tech entrepreneur and Andrew's the butcher's lad, basically, but he's like, I had a far better career than I've ever so on. A simple answer was like the club needed some help and, and there wasn't many people that could do it. But the longer answer was like, I was like, I'd gone back to university thinking about politics and had this thesis
- [39:18]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
around
- [39:21]
Jason Stockwood
our democracy only works if we have civic institutions that bind us. So it's the work of Robert Putnam in the Upswing and Bowling Alone, which is, you know, capitalism is our best way of raising living standards, but our social capital is connected through institutions that we have. And so why our politics has become slightly untethered is because our civic institutions been eroded. But it's the church, union, social groups, whatever. So the sort of more grandiose thing behind this sounds a bit pretentious. I was like, well, what if we could use the football club as an apolitical catalyst for bringing the community back together around the values of excellence, aspiration, performance, inclusivity, all these things. And then aligned with that, we've built, or actually it's opening in February, we've built an on site youth zone in the town which I've chaired and helped raise the money with a bunch of brilliant trustees. And so that's about an institution for the past that combined people, the football club, an institution for the future, a youth zone. And then I co founded a charity called Our Future with a brilliant social entrepreneur called Emily Bolton who'd done this for 20 years, which is about how do you build, you know, get a community to write its own story about the initiatives that it wants to do, but doing that with the data led way so it can become part of government policy. So there was, there was a strategy behind it as well. So the simple answer is like, I'm a football fan, I didn't want my club, I want my club to improve. But there was something strategic behind it as well. But I didn't want to sound like some sort of pretentious. Yeah, you know, like it was generally about, I'm a passion, I'm a passionate fan, I want the football club to do well. But it was more thoughtful than that about the art of the possible, about what could we do in terms of bringing the community together as well. And so people can write their own story and then we can bring resources to bear on that to help facilitate the things people want for themselves rather than someone coming in and answering a problem. It was about how do you let the community tell its own story that makes Sense.
- [41:10]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
And so what are the sort of innovative things that you've tried to do? Because people will be a bit more familiar, like with the Wrexham story, perhaps, but like this is happening more and more.
- [41:19]
Jason Stockwood
Yeah. So we had a massive stroke of luck. So we. I was trying to use data and analysis in terms of our recruitment. That's quite well understood these days.
- [41:27]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [41:27]
Jason Stockwood
But we had a massive stroke of luck and it's in the public domain now. Is that bright? When I went to meet Brighton and Tony Bloom, we asked them if we could because they're the best in the world at this stuff in terms of they've got a company called Jamestown analytics that is fundamentally how they run their gaming business. But actually the offshoot of that is that they analyze players from around the world and find undervalued talent. And we're one of a handful of clubs globally that has access to their data. And so we were trying to build this thing ourselves with a great strategy consultancy called the 21st group. And then with the massive stroke, a lot that they've. They just because they knew we're doing this for social reasons. We want to go up through the leagues but we're primarily doing it because we care about the community. So they're helping us with that, which is transformative for us because we haven't got the biggest budget. We certainly haven't got the. The Ryan Reynolds looks and charm and stuff. By the way, I went to meet him. This true story. My wife never comes to football and she came to football that day heavily made up with a new dress on. And I actually, there's a photo of. Actually it's our ex, Eric's CEO, Debbie and me and Ryan Reynolds. And I actually airbrushed myself out of the photo. He was that good looking and that. And that charismatic. I look like Golem at a Lord of the Rings stood next to him. I was like, I'm not even having that photo existing. But, but, but, but. So we haven't got their money, their looks, charm or their influence. But actually we think that we can, we can be. Have the most, you know, efficient budget and go through the leagues by using data, focusing on culture and then importantly having a strategy, it's alignment, so we know we want to play. We have a great CEO in, in terms of Polly Bancroft, we have a brilliant manager in terms of David Artel. We have complete alignment about what we're trying to achieve and we'll do it at the pace that is right for the club and the town.
- [43:06]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [43:07]
Jason Stockwood
But we're trying to do it in a way that. That doesn't just bet the future, Gamble with the future of the club as well. Trying to do it systematically.
- [43:13]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah. And what is it? What's the ambition for it? Where would you like it to kind of like.
- [43:17]
Jason Stockwood
I just like to keep us feeling like tomorrow is better than say. I know it sounds like it's really dangerous when people say, I want to be here by a certain date. Because there's so much about football that's not in your control.
- [43:26]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
Yeah.
- [43:26]
Jason Stockwood
Like the data says, 60 of the time, the best team wins in football. So it's a great game because you've got a chance. Right. So as long as we're playing a style of football that's attractive, that we're looking at the data, the underlying performance of the club is. Right. So whether we win or lose, we know that our performances are where we want to be, but it's got to be a product that people want to come and see and get excited about. So we're scoring a lot more goals. We're attractive on the eye, and I think what we've got, the results will catch up with that over time. But we want to go up through the leagues, definitely. But there's something about where you cap out on your success. You said that Pace. Right. So I'd rather be, you know, I'd rather be around the playoffs each year and some years. Make it some years not rather than go. We want to be in this league by this date. Because it's like, where'd you go from that?
- [44:09]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [44:09]
Jason Stockwood
So while we. While we're involved with the club, it's undoubted. I think fans will say we've improved the mood of the club. We've improved the quality of the products. The football is just great to watch. But I think that there's a sense that there's a pride that's come back into the town with what we're trying to do. And people know that we're not doing this just. Well, it's a terrible way if you're gonna make money. But also we're doing it because we care about the place. And so it's not about an exit. It's not about, you know, it's not. It's not about e. It's like about. We care about the community and which one. People feel proud. And one of the metrics that it's slightly intangible, but, you know, seeing the number of kids in town wearing the town shirt now.
- [44:48]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [44:48]
Jason Stockwood
You know, I had one of the other chairmans from the club who actually's got holiday place in Cleveland. He said to me, I've just noticed every year I come back, there's more kids with your shirts on. The stuff about that where, when I was a kid, it was just great to be a Grisby Townsport. We were doing well at that time and, you know, you were proud to be associated with. And it's just lost its way.
- [45:05]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [45:06]
Jason Stockwood
So the sense that there's aspiration and there's pride and just kids feel more hopeful about it is, yeah, where we want to be.
- [45:12]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
I remember doing all the, like, the Save Derby county stuff and what struck me as perhaps the most valuable thing at the end of all that was like, we'd done quite a lot of, like, crowdfunding for the sort of tickets and ticket sales and getting those distributed through Derby county in the community, like, to lots of young fans. And I thought, like, if this, you know, if all this ends up is just a few more fans that have gone at an early age and kind of have it ingrained, like, that will have been, you know, entirely worth it.
- [45:42]
Jason Stockwood
It's just. It's weird. I know for me, as I get older, you know, when you look at the things that are important to you and things that are sort of the thread for your own identity, it's one of the constants, isn't it? You know, so you get. You build that relationship. I actually. I went to a lunch in Grimsby at the football club, and I was saying to this guy sat next to me, I was like, guys, just like, let's get old. It's probably one of the most important relates this and my wife and kids, the most important relationship of my life. And with no irony, he turned around to me and said, yeah, you can change your wife, though, if you want to. I was like, Christ almighty, that's stark. You know, but. But I think it's true. You know, it's the one constant from being nine years old, the thing that I've gone back to again and again. And it just has a. It just has a book I wrote about this when I. Guarding Combat. It's an alibi to getting together for. For sense of community, seeing the same faces again and again. And as you get older, I just think I just value that more. I value that. That sense of permanence in a, you know, in a complex, you know, ever changing world. There's something about going back to that same place I've been going to for. For all these years that's. That's incredibly valuable and Meaningful. And I think a lot of people feel the same way. I think so. So when I see kids come in and having that sort of first experience, I'm like, oh, we've got you now. Yeah, a little bit like a drug dealer, you know, giving them a list, a little taste or something. Knowing that this is it for the rest of your life, ups and downs. But. And also I think support someone like Grimsby, like, the highs are just so high. Like, the Man United thing in August
- [47:03]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
was just like, explain what happened with it.
- [47:05]
Jason Stockwood
Well, yeah, so we got Man United in. In the league cup and genuinely, we couldn't have got a Premier League team at a better time with everything was going wrong there at the club and stuff. And I got a huge respect for them as a club in their history, but I just felt like we had a chance and you shouldn't go, like, there's no way a second division team should go in against. I think you. And I genuinely. I was on 5 live before the game and I was like, we're going to win in extra time on penalties because a. The format is no extra time, so you go straight to penalties. So that favors you because you've got a chance if you get through 90 minutes. But just the way they showed up to the game, I told the story on. On one of the. So there's a lady called Sharon that helps out at the club and about an hour before the game, I went over to the change rooms and she had like a Tesco shopping bank. I was like, sharon, this is no time to do in your weekly shop what you did. Man United beer now. She was like, oh, we've had a note from Man United secretary. They sent the rider through for the manager's changing room. And I was like, well, firstly, our manager gets changed his car and secondly, they wanted oat milk for Reuben Amarin. I was like, if they think they're coming to Grimsby. So I said, where did you find oat milk? Like, you should. I'd drive around for an hour trying to find oat milk from the petrol stations in Grimsburg. But I was like, if they're coming here expecting this. Yeah. And when they get it, like, the change room is the size of a normal sort of bedroom and they just. The whole body language. A lot of those kids don't go to academies like they would have years ago. So they just turned up and they just didn't look up for it. I remember seeing Bruno Fernandes sat on the floor with his headphones on. I was like, no, they're just not in the right. They're not the right mentality and then they're having all the, all their own problems. And so it was just a magical night and my lad was with me and with his mates and you know, there was a pitch invasion. You don't see pitch invasions anymore because it's a lifetime ban for that. And my lad looked up to me, he's like, can I go? I was like, get on there. You know. And so just seeing kids with their dads and mums and stuff on the pitch, doing these. I was like, it's just, it's just a magical moment. When we got the draw, I was like, oh, we could be Old Trafford earning a million quid. But being there, that was probably one of the most magical nights in my life as a Grimsby Town fan. To experience that, it's literally priceless. Right? So, yeah, it was, it was. And just, just the galvanizing that, you just know that that's lodged there in those kids memories for the next 60, 70 years, their lives. It was absolutely brilliant, absolutely brilliant. But it just. Everything came together with how badly they were doing and how well we were doing. So it'll probably never be replicated again.
- [49:23]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
I do remember hearing the a story about Brian Clough, but just saying to his sort of assistant, Peter Taylor, like before a game, like, we're gonna win. Convinced by it. He was like, we beat them in the car park, like just the way they were looking and whatever. Like that body language is quite important, I think. And it sort of. Yeah, it's interesting in politics as well.
- [49:42]
Jason Stockwood
Well, it comes up that first sentiment, doesn't it, about sentiment and how you project your story and your confidence and that it's true of life in anything. You tell a story yourself and the narrative you create isn't, we're storytellers as a species. Yuval Harari's great at this, isn't he? Talks about like our evolution and I think we sort of forget that. It seems, it seems prosaic and seems simple, but actually in some ways the story that we tell ourselves is what we become. And I think it's, it's definitely, it's definitely true in sport. You can definitely be sitting boxing quite a lot. They say the one at the, at the weigh ins and stuff. And it's, there's, there's definitely some truth to it.
- [50:15]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
So just on Skyscanner, just one question on that in terms of like when Peter Kyle was here, he was like, we want to build a $1 trillion company and whatever and I'm like, that's great. We should probably try and focus on building a 50 billion first before, before that. But Skyscan has been one of those stories that really could have potentially sort of got there. Like what was your kind of like involvement in it and what have been your lessons in terms of like, could it have gone on?
- [50:39]
Jason Stockwood
Yeah, I was lucky again in that. So. So I knew the chairman. I was introduced to chairman by a friend when, when Scottish Secretary Partners who are one of the best investors, low key investors in the U.K. by the way, they were going as the first sort of institutional capital. And he brought, I think it was Gareth, but it was a couple of the fans, Gareth and Barry to see me was a match because they were just working through some tech stuff and they're like, oh, Jason might know. So we just met and we hung out and we liked them and it was really this straightforward where they said to me, oh, we're putting a board together and this institution around. Do you want to come in? I was like, I've never been a board member at that point. I think I was 35. I was like, yeah, okay. And genuinely, I mean this is a little bit embarrassing to admit, but it's. But it just shows you how life turns out. So the, the chairman who became a lifelong friend, the guy called John Nicholson, who I'm still mates with now, and I said, he said to me, oh well, we want you to be a non exec. And I was like, yeah, brilliant. I said, tell me what it is. And he said, oh, you get equity as part of that. You have to invest but you know, we'll match the equity you put in. And I said to him, you know what, John? I said, look, we're going to have a relationship with friends. I need to trust you. Whatever you put on a piece of paper, like accept, because this is my first time doing this and that was a transformative deal for me personally, financially. But it just shows. I was like, I just liked him, I trusted him. I thought they were great guys. Again, I had no idea the trajectory was going on, but I just had a lesson in like super technical founders deeply wedded to the problem statement. Like the business was built out of them trying to solve a problem for themselves around trying to find flights to go skiing and just a combination of skills amongst them as partners. The three founders, Bonhomie, Gareth and Barridge, they worked really well together. And I remember thinking, you know, when you look at, when you, when I look to invest in stuff is the combination of founders together. They were excellent and they were very complementary to each other but just lucky as well. It hit a hockey stick as well. But I, I left when, actually I think when Sequoia came in. I was conflicted at that point. I was doing the simply business stuff and to be honest, I'd noticed that I wasn't paying as much attention as I should have as a non exec.
- [52:32]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [52:32]
Jason Stockwood
And so I was like, look, I'm kind of done. But I don't know, it's funny like, like in government now we talk about sort of scale up capital and I was at select Committee yesterday where we talked about the problem with not being able to scale and I'm just not sure it's true. Like there's, there's so many different variables about when you exit a business and you know a lot. I don't meet many founders, I mean totally different Jimmy, that are thinking about the ultimate valuation of the business, of their metric of their success. You kind of, you kind of the, the commercial element is important and returning for shelter is important and for yourself and your family. But it's just got to feel right for you when you, when you exit or leave. I think so simply business is worth a few billion now. Like I don't regret leaving it. 500 million. It was a great position for me personally and for the company but I was kind of done as well, if that makes sense.
- [53:18]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [53:19]
Jason Stockwood
And so you know, that business. Yeah. You know there's a, there's a, there's a possible world where that's gone on and been, you know, 50, 60 billion. But you know, the timing was right for the exit of the shareholders, the founders and stuff. So you know, these businesses will have longevity and go on. By the way, I do believe like one of the great twists of fate for me was like I've always been really impressed by Peter. Like he spoke at a couple of conferences where I was an lp when I was coming into, before I came into government I was like, this guy gets it. He's very entrepreneurial, like he understands the technology opportunity. And one of the reasons I came into government was that I think there's a real small window of opportunity around things like AI, around Quantum in particular and automation where there is a trillion pound company or dollar company depending on what you want to talk about within our gift in the uk. So I think there's some sort of talking that into reality. But I do think our sovereign capabilities around Quantum in particular, I was reading this morning around we're kind of in the production ready scale For Quantum, which has come through quite quickly and we're really good at this as a nation. So I think one, having that ambition is important in saying that sort of stuff. But B, I think I'm now being in government and trying to facilitate, ensuring that one, we deliver on that. But to the UK taxpayer is facilitating some of this is a massive. There's a North Sea oil moment for us again in Quantum, I think and through the National Wealth Fund, through the British Business bank, we're investing in these things. I'm trying to push for that because I think Christ, in 20 years from. If we're the world leaders in Quantum, the wealth created for that and the burden that'll take off the taxpayer.
- [54:47]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [54:47]
Jason Stockwood
Could be amazing for us. So that was part. Peter gets that. So I was inspired by coming to work with him in DBT as well. But the exit stuff is A, you know, there's so many different reasons about why people exit and when they exit, I think. But it's gone on from strength to strength. I mean of all the business. Like I wasn't an exec in Skyscanner, but it's. Along with Match, I guess it's the business that people still recognize and use. But Skyscanner is more popular and widely used. It's the thing people talk about still as a product and service. There's extra. And that's a testimony to the founding principles and the founders, you know, Barry Bonamy and Gareth as well. But yeah, the timing of an exit is kind of. It's kind of. It's kind of personal, isn't it? I think.
- [55:26]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
What do you think? If Jason Stockwood were in his early 20s now, what do you think? You've always been like a little bit ahead of the curve. What do you think you'd be?
- [55:37]
Jason Stockwood
I'm just. I'm just naturally. I've had like one of the. One of the benefits of the. The upbringing I had is no one was paying that much attention to me and so I just followed my passions. Like, I didn't do well at school. I was. I was bright, but I just. I just used to muck about and I just didn't turn up for sick form and so I fell my A levels and so I'm not proud of that. But it was like. Kind of like I've just left my own devices because the way my mum was and she was busy on other stuff. So consequently I've been liberated to just follow my passions in life. So like when. When I found. And it's a weird thing to Admit like I didn't really read until I found stuff I really loved in my early 20s. And now like I say to people, just I read voraciously. Like I've always got several books on the go. Like the ability to just be into stuff and interested, want to be curious. And so I got this natural tendency to be trying to learn about things and. And then the weird thing, one of the other weird things. My wife, like I always think my next thing is going to be my most interesting thing. Even now.
- [56:29]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [56:30]
Jason Stockwood
I'm like, what's next? I think like the quantum stuff for example, like wow. I want to learn about that and get involved and do stuff. So that's just a natural forward leaning tendency. So I think it's a byproduct of no one really paying attention. So I've. I often look at like friends of mine had like some more traditional upbringing to add like really good role models in their parents and where they're somewhat constrained because they want to do right by their parents. My kids will probably have it actually, you know, where they're trying to follow, impress their mum and dad and I just never had that. So I've just been left to my own devices and it's been, it's been a gift in some ways. I didn't know it was a gift at the time, but it's definitely been a gift. And I look back but you have
- [57:08]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
done quite a lot of executive education sort of later on.
- [57:10]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
Right.
- [57:11]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
That was one thing that really jumped out.
- [57:12]
Jason Stockwood
Yeah.
- [57:12]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
At me. Like you've done what? What's that like kind of.
- [57:14]
Jason Stockwood
No. So like I tried to do something like every year I was like Christ. I mean magic privileged situation. Whether that was like just setting myself a task to improve on something that I would do myself or, or whether it was like like writing a book or whether it was like I wanted to really get decent at public speaking about 15 years ago and I wasn't great. So I really, really worked hard at that.
- [57:34]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
And like how did you do that? Because that's always one that interests.
- [57:37]
Jason Stockwood
Yeah, you just have to put yourself out there. So one is like putting yourself. It's like, it's like an athlete really. The more you do it, it learning from experts. So reading around it. I did a few courses and then just finding your own rhythm and voice and it is literally one of those things. Like I was terrified of it in my 20s, like a lot of people are and people often say about like looking relaxed, speaking, I'm like, it's a skill, it's a skill you develop. Like, I didn't start like this. And then there's just. There's tricks you can learn as well, like about how you're opening a speech and there's lines that you work that work different ways and stuff so that there's an army of tools that you can use. But it's a skill you develop and there's nothing like practice and repetition. Right. So that was one. But the exec. Edda. So I did some stuff with Singularity University. I went to Harvard for a few weeks and then I was really fortunate that I got a fellowship to Oxford, which I never as a kid that left school with few qualifications to be offered a fellowship at the School of Government. I'm still slightly blown away by that, but it was, that was a amazing privilege and access into a sort of a level of academia and expertise. That. Which just blew me away, quite frankly. So, yeah, look, I say to my kids, I'm like, I failed my A levels but I ended up at Oxford at 49. So, you know, everything's possible. Yeah, take your time. And like it's. It's a marathon, not a sprint. But it's been, it's been a privilege. It's been a privilege. And I still feel like there's a lot to learn. There's the exciting thing about being in government. It's like I'm a novice again.
- [59:00]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [59:00]
Jason Stockwood
I'm certainly a novice in the House of Lords, which is completely bewildering in terms of the process and the sort of level of expertise in there. But it's quite good to feel uncomfortable still. Yeah. 55 to be. To go into areas where I feel at the edge of my comfort zone and maybe beyond it is, you know, that's more than you can hope for, I think.
- [59:17]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
What car do you drive? And can you pass the mic to a sort of impressive entrepreneur that's come across your radar?
- [59:26]
Jason Stockwood
Oh, so I drive a Porsche. Take him.
- [59:28]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Okay.
- [59:29]
Jason Stockwood
And there's a story behind that. So I didn't pass my driving test. I was 32.
- [59:32]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
All right.
- [59:33]
Jason Stockwood
I just was. I'm not into cars, not interested in cars. And so when I lived in London, which I did for 20 odd years, I had a Vesper. Yeah, I loved it. And I used to drive around everywhere. It was 20 minutes away on a Vesper and I would never have owned a car. My wife owned a car. And so when we moved up north, so we lived just south of Manchester, near Macclesville now. And I said to my wife, I was like, oh, when we move up, can I just borrow your car? She's like, absolutely not. You need your own car. So mate of mine that's really into cars, I said to him, well, my kids want me to get an ev. You know, what should I get? And he's like, oh, this is the one to get. And I didn't even. I didn't. I ordered it online.
- [60:06]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [60:06]
Jason Stockwood
And it's a mate. I love driving it. It's such fun to draw. And I've never had a car that I love, so I don't use it a lot, but I've got. I've got a Porsche. Take answer. No shame in that.
- [60:15]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Why did you want to get an ev?
- [60:17]
Jason Stockwood
Well, my kids were. Kids were going on about it and then just. My mate was just like that again. I know he's a car buff, my mate, Dan Britton, and he was like, the performance of this kind of. I'm just not interested. Talking about talk and zero to six. I was like, I don't care. He's like, just tell me the one to buy. And it was literally like that. I just went online and ordered it and it turned up and it's great and I love it and it's, you know, it's good fun, but I don't have a lot of interesting cars. But I must say, if you're going to get. If. I think it's only the only second or third car I've ever owned the company. I had a company car when I was 35 or something, so that. That's good.
- [60:50]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Do you charge it as well, then at home?
- [60:51]
Jason Stockwood
Yeah, yeah. I've got salt. So, yeah, I went. I went all in. So when we moved up north and we moved up north, My kids were 6 and 9. We're living in North London. They were getting cockney accents and I was like, I'm not having this. I've got to get them up north sharpish. So my wife's family's from Stockport, so we went up and got Eliza Doolittle and Dick Van Dyke recalibrated with their northern accents and so. But my wife's family's, their sisters and cousins and all that, so it's been great to be up there. But, yeah, we did the whole thing where we got solar put on the house and the ev. So Jordan Brompton, it was from my energy, who's a friend from Grimsby. She's impressive, but she, you know, she talked me into it as well. But she'd be one of the entrepreneurs.
- [61:31]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
I'd love to get her On. We have messaged a bit like.
- [61:34]
Jason Stockwood
Yeah, oh, we'll make that happen. I'll text you straight after this. You need Jordan on. She's. She's out of my energy now, but she's a force of nature.
- [61:40]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [61:41]
Jason Stockwood
We don't agree on everything politically, but she's. She's a incredibly impressive entrepreneur with a singular vision. A similar background in some ways to my up being like, she tried a lot of different stuff in the crib. Yeah. She'd be a fascinating guest. I'll text her straight after. She definitely did her on. And then I had a similar theme, actually. I've got to know Greg Jackson a bit. I think he's. Has he been on? Yeah, yeah, I've just seen the Octopus there. Yeah. He's incredibly impressive at scale with humility as well. Like changing the world with his business. It'll be probably. I mean, that could be one of the first trillion dollar companies out of the uk. Trillion pounds. Right. Whether it's Kraken or Octopus itself, the potential for that business is almost unbounded. I think with his vision, his venture fund that he's creating and stuff. And, you know, as I go around the world, his name comes up a lot.
- [62:24]
Jimmy (Podcast Host)
Yeah.
- [62:25]
Jimmy (Interviewer)
Yeah, he is. Yeah.
- [62:36]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
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- [62:39]
Jason Stockwood
Feel your body relax and let go
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Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
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- [62:52]
Jason Stockwood
And breathe.
- [62:53]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
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- [63:04]
Jason Stockwood
1-800-contacts.
- [63:06]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
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