Keir Starmer | The Prime Minister

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jimmy’s Jobs of the Future

Episode: Keir Starmer | The Prime Minister

Date: July 22, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this landmark episode, host Jimmy McLoughlin sits down with the UK Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, to discuss the future of work, artificial intelligence, international trade, and what the rapidly changing economic and technological landscape means for jobs in the UK. Starmer offers personal reflections, insights into government policy, behind-the-scenes glimpses of leadership, and his vision for a Britain navigating through both opportunities and risks of the AI era. The conversation moves seamlessly between light-hearted quickfire questions and hard-hitting topics about the country’s readiness for the future.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Personal Reflections and Icebreakers

• Jimmy’s Return to Downing Street
  Jimmy recalls being contacted to arrange the interview and the logistical and personal challenges—providing relatable context for listeners and setting up a warm, informal tone.
  (03:01–03:20)

• Parenting and Early Careers
  Both Starmer and Jimmy exchange stories about the impact of spending early months with their children and Starmer’s formative experiences picking stones on a local farm.

  • "It taught me the significance of small things like that to farming...and also it taught me about the love that those that work on the land have for the land and the care, actually, and attention that they give to it." – Keir Starmer (08:53)

• Quickfire Questions: Football, Cars, Beer
  Starmer answers a rapid-fire round revealing his favourites:

  • Arsenal legend Thierry Henry, Manager Arsène Wenger
  • First car: "Freedom pass" Morris Minor
  • IPA – Tim Taylor as his preferred ale
    (04:43–06:46)

The Realities of Prime Ministerial Life

• Biggest Surprises on the Job
  Starmer discusses the seriousness of national security responsibilities and the lighter challenge of installing a cat flap at Number 10.

  • "The depth of the information in relation to security and intelligence...the sort of stuff which in the end is reserved for Prime Ministers." (06:54)
  • "The surprise is how hard it is to get a cat flap into the Number 10, Number 11 flat..." (07:22)

• Pets in Downing Street
  Reveals bringing their own cats and a new kitten to Number 10, with comedic relief about not letting them meet Larry the Cat.
  (08:01–08:13)

AI, Jobs of the Future, and National Competitiveness

Starmer’s AI Outlook

• AI as a National Priority
  Starmer expresses optimism and ambition for the UK’s AI future:

  • "I think your posture on AI matters. I think it will be transformative. I think it brings massive opportunities. Yes, some risks as well, which have to be managed, but I think there’s a posture, if you like, on AI—do you lean in and see the opportunities and be prepared to take them, or do you sort of lean out and think about the risks? And I lean in to the opportunity on AGI." (09:56)
  • "We are in an incredibly good position because we're amongst the top three in the world. We've got brilliant companies and facilities here already..." (10:55)

• AI’s Real-World Impact on Jobs
  Starmer shares an anecdote about a social worker using AI to handle paperwork, freeing up more time for genuine human interaction—a model for how "AI could make us more human in our jobs."
  (11:56–13:10)

• Risks, Past Lessons, and Skills Transition
  Starmer stresses the importance of government proactively managing the workforce transition, referencing scars left by the 1980s deindustrialization:

  • "The miners strike is a classic example of a bad transition which has still left our country scarred... We must never let that happen again." (12:40–13:10)

What Will The Next Generation Do?

• Human-facing Jobs and Tech
  Starmer predicts jobs will lean more to human interaction, with robust opportunities in both tech and areas like social work and clean energy:

  • "There will be huge jobs in tech and innovation, but... you can't get away from the human element at the end of it." (13:18)

• Personal Anecdote
  His own son’s career red lines: "He doesn't want to go into politics and he doesn't want to be a lawyer." (14:18)

International Cooperation and Economic Policy

• Turning Diplomacy into Jobs
  Starmer discusses his recent meetings and reveals concrete examples of diplomacy delivering domestic jobs:

  • "We have just signed off for MOU between our two countries... we will develop the joint work we're doing on SMR reactors, which involves Rolls Royce as a key partner... good, secure, well paid jobs in this country." (15:50)

  • He connects international agreements—like small modular reactors with the Czech Republic, cross-Channel returns with France, and tariff reductions in a US trade deal—to tangible UK job gains, notably referencing securing 44,000 jobs at Jaguar Land Rover.

    • "By reducing the tariffs because the agreement we made, 44,000 jobs are more secured now than they would otherwise have been." (17:11)

• Electric Vehicles Push
  Starmer previews a major policy announcement to incentivize electric vehicle purchases, aiming for both environmental and industrial benefits:

  • "This is a big announcement to incentivize the purchase of electric vehicles... bringing a big knockoff on the price so people can afford electric vehicles. Big boost for manufacturing..." (19:00–19:33)

The Culture of Enterprise and AI in Governance

• AI Inside Government
  Jimmy and Starmer discuss deploying AI tools in government to accelerate processes like housing and planning; Starmer frames this as both an efficiency and a productivity revolution.
• Entrepreneurs in Government
  Starmer highlights the government’s effort to bring leading entrepreneurs and technologists into policy roles (e.g., Matt Clifford as AI advisor), showing commitment to innovation.
• A Caution on AI’s “Quiet” Disruption
  Jimmy and Starmer agree the next wave of disruption may impact middle-class jobs, and that policymakers and society aren’t yet fully prepared for this seismic shift.
  • "This time it might not be the factory workers and the coal miners... it may well be the middle classes, and I don't think we've started preparing for that properly yet." – Jimmy (post-interview reflection)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI Opportunity
  "I want us to be not only in that race, but winning the race on AI, and so we'll put a lot into it. The potential for the delivery of services is huge.”
  — Keir Starmer (11:15)

• On Tough Transitions
  "If there's to be a transition, then we need to be able to manage that transition fairly, which didn't happen in the past... The miners strike is a classic example of a bad transition which has still left our country scarred... We must never let that happen again."
  — Keir Starmer (12:03, 12:40)

• On International Deals and Domestic Impact
  "Whether it’s the deal this afternoon... with small modular reactors, or the returns agreement last week with the French, or the deal with the U.S.—each of them translates directly into something that matters back here at home.”
  — Keir Starmer (17:11)

• On the Role of Podcasts in Politics
  "Now you’ve got the Prime Minister listening to podcasts in the car. The world is changing fast. Where people are getting their news from is shifting dramatically, as is the trust and authenticity of these shows."
  — Jimmy (Post-interview reflection)

• Personal and Lighthearted
  "The surprise is how hard it is to get a cat flap into the number 10, number 11 flat."
  — Keir Starmer (07:22)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | Speakers | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------|---------------| | 03:20 | Start of Interview | Keir, Jimmy | | 04:43 | Football, cars, beer (Quickfire) | Keir, Jimmy | | 06:54 | Most surprising thing about being PM | Keir | | 08:13 | First job & lessons learned | Keir, Jimmy | | 09:36 | Introduction to AI and AGI discussion | Jimmy | | 09:56 | Keir's position on AGI & AI (in-depth) | Keir | | 11:38 | Potential impact of AI on jobs/transition | Jimmy, Keir | | 13:14 | What future jobs will look like for next gen | Keir | | 15:50 | Bilateral international agreements → UK jobs | Keir | | 19:00 | Electric vehicles policy preview | Keir | | 21:27 | Banter about AI-generated gifts and football | Keir, Jimmy |

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Episode Tone & Language

The tone is friendly, curious, and highly accessible. There’s a balance of light-hearted personal anecdotes and rigorous policy-focused discussion. Both speakers maintain a conversational and approachable style—Jimmy bringing a business and entrepreneurial slant; Starmer, an earnest and pragmatic focus on delivery, risk, and national opportunity.

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Final Thoughts

This episode gives listeners exclusive insight into how the current leadership is engaging with the opportunities and challenges of AI, the practicalities of government, and the culture of enterprise in modern Britain. Starmer comes across as thoughtful, optimistic on technology, and determined to avoid the mistakes of past industrial transitions. Jimmy’s style draws out both the human and institutional sides of what it means to lead—and prepare the UK for the future of work.

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For a deeper understanding of where politics, technology, and jobs intersect in Britain’s future, this is a must-listen episode.

Transcript

[Keir Starmer]

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[Jimmy]

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[Keir Starmer]

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[Jimmy]

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[Keir Starmer]

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[Jimmy]

Hello, and welcome to Jimmy's Jobs of the Future. Getting a call from number 10 a few weeks ago was slightly unexpected. Could you be in the Midlands for 9am on Monday morning to interview the Prime Minister? I asked for a rough location, knowing full well that they wouldn't be able to give me a precise one for security reasons. But I still had to work out if this was even feasible. We haven't had a car for the last three months, so logistically it could prove to be a bit challenging. Suddenly, I was back in my old world. Those surreal moments in Downing street when someone from the Operations and Events team would burst in with something along the lines of, jimmy, we need a business that employs lots of people, lots of apprentices, lots of high vis jackets, ideally in the life sciences sector. And it can only be in one of these three constituencies. Could you find one, please? Oh, and you can't tell them who's coming. That would usually lead to a string of increasingly bizarre phone calls with CEOs late on a Friday night, assessing whether they had the right factory requirements for a potential high profile visit on the Monday morning. Perhaps AI could have saved me an entire weekend in the modern world. As it turned out, the weekend after that particular phone call was one where US launched airstrikes on Iranian nuclear facilities. Frankly, Jobs of the Future and the AI revolution felt a little less urgent. But the following week, the team at number 10 came back emphatic that the PM still wanted to do the podcast. It all started to feel a bit more real and it was definitely a bit of a vibe shift. We'd even joked with Peter Kyle that he should help us pitch the Prime Minister. And here they were doing the pitching. And then last week the call came again. The PM had been listening to the podcast. I had made a mental note to update our influential listeners section on the media deck that we provide partners. At that point, I knew it was going to be a case of when, not if, we were doing the podcast. We want to continue to grow this show. I know every podcaster bangs on about it, but please do subscribe. It really does help us grow the show, continue to improve it and get bigger and bigger guests. Without further ado, here's the Prime Minister, Sakir Starmer. This episode is brought to you by bgf. More about them later in the show.

[Keir Starmer]

Hello.

[Jimmy]

Hi, Prime Minister. Good to see you.

[Keir Starmer]

I'm very well hanged. How are you? Very good.

[Jimmy]

So this used to be my favourite room to have meetings in when I was here.

[Keir Starmer]

Because you were here, weren't you?

[Jimmy]

Yeah, I was. And so to be able to have this room, say, like, you know, Gorbachev and Thatcher sort of thawed the Cold War in this room. They would sort of love the history of it. It would sort of, it would make it. I, I always used to tell myself it made a big difference in those international investment decisions.

[Keir Starmer]

So you Left when? In 20.

[Jimmy]

I left in 20. 19.

[Keir Starmer]

19.

[Jimmy]

We were about to have our first child, so I was like, I'm gonna go. And I went off to study at Stanford for a bit and then in March 2020, the pandemic happened and my wife went back to work in the NHS and I became a stay at home dad. So gone from downing to diapers? Well, it was, I mean, it was, but it was, I was, it was a five month old, so I couldn't really do anything with her. Five months old.

[Keir Starmer]

But do you feel that spending that time with her in the early months has made a big difference? Yes, because massively, with our son, I was just, I was. I'd been appointed Director of Public Prosecutions, but I hadn't taken up the post. But I was having to wind down my practice.

[Jimmy]

Okay.

[Keir Starmer]

So I actually spent. In that case, it was July, August, September, October, November. So four months. Had loads of time with him and I'm absolutely convinced it's created a really good relationship.

[Jimmy]

Brilliant.

[Keir Starmer]

Right.

[Jimmy]

Thierry Henry or Ian Wright?

[Keir Starmer]

Thierry Henry is my favorite Arsenal player. Absolutely fantastic.

[Jimmy]

Gary Lineker Alan Shearer.

[Keir Starmer]

That's difficult. I think I'm gonna go for Lineker because what he did with Gascoigne. Remember when Gascoigne got the yellow and knew he wasn't going to play in the final? And the tears nearly started and Lineker played his full part in pulling Gaz around in that particular game. So I'm going to give that one. It's a hard one because they're both great players, but I'm going to give that one to Lineker, who'd be most

[Jimmy]

likely to win the Apprentice or go furthest, perhaps.

[Keir Starmer]

Oh, well, again, I'm tempted to say all of them, but the business secretary surely has to have the edge on that. I hope he's got the edge on that.

[Jimmy]

I think Angela Raina would do quite well. I think Lord Sugar met his match.

[Keir Starmer]

That won't be a very. Yeah, that would be good. That would make good tv.

[Jimmy]

Favorite Arsenal manager.

[Keir Starmer]

Oh, we've got to go for Wenger. Transformative, incredible man. I. I got to know him subsequently and he's his. His interest in the sport and not just how he changed it, but how he still wants to change it is. Is quite incredible.

[Jimmy]

Favorite car that you've ever had?

[Keir Starmer]

Favorite car that I've ever had. The first thing I'd say is I don't really drive anymore because we have to have a police protection team. I mean, I'd have to go for my first car. It's my favorite car, even though it was a pretty cheap Morris Miner, so not the most glamorous. But I'll tell you what's my favorite. It was my freedom pass. It was to my ability to get around on my own across the towns of Surrey and Kent. So my favourite because it gave me freedom, but as I say, probably not the most glamorous.

[Jimmy]

Favorite beer.

[Keir Starmer]

Oh, an ipa, an ale, Tim Taylor or something like that.

[Jimmy]

And final question. What's most surprised you about the job one year in, what's kind of. I know it'll be a little while before you're on the summer recess, etc.

[Keir Starmer]

But not a lot has surprised me in the sense. I think I know what was going to get thrown at me. I suppose the thing that's most different to the job I did before Leader of the Opposition is the. The depth of the information in relation to security and intelligence. The sort of stuff which in the end is reserved for Prime Ministers. Yeah, I mean, actually to be to the previous Conservative prime ministers pretty. All of them were as open as they could be with me. As Leader of the Opposition. But there's only so much you can share. So that would be my sort of serious answer to the question. I suppose the more trivial is the surprise is how hard it is to get a cat flap into the number 10, number 11 flat. We've got one cat that we brought with us, Jojo, another one, a kitten that we had to buy in order to persuade my daughter, who's 14, to move in. We've got a Siberian kitten, white with blue eyes, but out of the flat there's a sort of bomb proof door into the garden. So cat flat was a bit of a non starter, so we had to go to quite an elaborate contraction.

[Jimmy]

Do they get on with Larry?

[Keir Starmer]

They've never met Larry. And long may that remain the case because I'm not quite sure how that would go. And that isn't the. That's not the news story we're looking for.

[Jimmy]

What was, what was, what was your first job? What was the first thing you did for money?

[Keir Starmer]

The very first job, not very glamorous. It was picking up stones in the local farm field. So there was a farmer just about two miles from where we lived, just down the road from Tandridge. We were in Hurst Green, near Oxted. And this farmer offered me an hourly rate to pick up the particularly big stones in the field that he wanted to plow later that year. So that was my first job. What was your hourly rate? Oh, I can't remember. It was. I honestly can't remember, but it was measured in pence, not pounds. It was hard work.

[Jimmy]

What did it teach you?

[Keir Starmer]

It taught me the significance of small things like that to farming, what a difference it could make. It got me into the farm and to talk with farmer and all the other things that he was doing on that particular farm. And also it taught me about the love that those that work on the land have for the land and the care, actually, and attention that they give to it. So. And I think you really get that if you grow up in a rural area in any event, because the outdoors is. Is everything really.

[Jimmy]

When Peter Kyle came on the podcast last week, he said that. He said, you've got to speak to Keir Starmer about. He gets really animated about AI and its opportunities, etc.

[Keir Starmer]

I've got to tell you, Keir is the Prime Minister. Is. He really gets this?

[Jimmy]

Yeah, yeah. No, Matt has told me how much he's doing.

[Keir Starmer]

He really, really gets this. And it's a shame more people don't see him when he's. He's really animated and, you know, he

[Jimmy]

said that he thinks we'll have AGI by the time of the next election. Is that something you agree with?

[Keir Starmer]

I think AGI is going to be pretty amazing and I'm a massive AI fan, so I think your posture on AI matters. I think it will be transformative. I think it brings massive opportunities. Yes. Some risks as well, which have to be managed, but I think there's a posture, if you like, on AI, do you lean in and see the opportunities and be prepared to take them, or do you sort of lean out and think about the risks? And I lean in to the opportunity on AGI, that's quite ambitious from Peter, but he's ambitious, man. I do think it'll be more quick, it'll be quicker than we think. I mean, I think on AI, one of the lessons to myself is the potential is huge. It will be transformative. It's going to happen anyway. We are in an incredibly good position because we're amongst the top three in the world. We've got brilliant companies and facilities here already, and we therefore are in a good place in this race towards AI. And it is going to be a race. And I want us to be not only in that race, but winning the race on AI, and so we'll put a lot into it. And the potential for the delivery of services is huge. Look at the public, look at the health service, what could be done. The potential for delivering government itself. We've just developed a tool within government to deal with housing and planning, which can bring in all the materials into one place and allow a decision to be made much more quickly. These are examples of how government make transport as well as the outside business.

[Jimmy]

What do you think about the potential impact on employment and jobs there? Right. Because it's my worry that we might have a sort of. Yeah, we're going to have a deindustrialization, but it's going to be very different this time. It's not going to be as noisy, it's not going to be as evocative. You were obviously in leeds in the 1980s, seeing that kind of the miners, strikes, et cetera.

[Keir Starmer]

How can we prepare to make sure

[Jimmy]

that doesn't happen again?

[Keir Starmer]

Well, we discussed this last week, which is, if there's to be a transition, then we need to be able to manage that transition fairly, which didn't happen in the past. I think there's great potential for jobs to change. I was really struck. There was a social worker here in Downing street, in the. Not the next room, but the room. Beyond that she was talking. I said to her, are you using AI? She said, yes, I am. I'm using it to collate all of my notes, all of the materials that I need that allows me more time of my own on the one to one human professional engagement that I need. So for her, AI made her more human and changed her job, but for the better. So yes, I think it'll be a real transition, but we need to see what better jobs come as a result of that transition. But we do need to get our arms around it as a government because the miners strike is a classic example of a bad transition which has still left our country scarred. If you overlay very many of the challenges that we face, you can see that in the different communities across the country. We must never let that happen again.

[Jimmy]

What do you think your kids generation might do for jobs?

[Keir Starmer]

I think they're more likely to do the human facing jobs. There will be huge jobs in tech and innovation, but there are many jobs, you know, your social workers probation is another example where AI is being used to arrange the material. But you can't get away from the human element at the end of it. So jobs will, you know, there are certain jobs which will always involve a human element and then of course there will be a huge number of jobs in each of the sectors. But look at what we're doing on things like clean power and getting the next generation of jobs here in relation to what we're going to need to transition to clean power by 2030 and then everything that follows from that. So there will be new generations of jobs and there'll be plenty of jobs that are done at the moment that are still needed for a very, very long time to come. What our children, what our actual children will do, I don't know. My 17 year old hasn't got a clue what he actually wants to do other than he's made it pretty clear he doesn't want to go into politics and he doesn't want to be a lawyer. So you can see the influence that I've had on him. So he's got two red lines. They're both things I've done with my life.

[Jimmy]

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[Keir Starmer]

Today I have done many things, but I've just been with the Prime Minister of the Czech Republic, Petter, who is my friend, I've met him in a number of meetings and we've just agreed on a number of bilateral issues. But most importantly, we have just signed off for MOU between our two countries, which covers a lot of economic issues, a lot of defense and security issues, and within which we will develop the joint work we're doing on SMR reactors, which involves Rolls Royce as a key partner. And so that is a really important piece of evidence for me or another piece of evidence that what we can achieve internationally with our relations with other countries can be translated into good, secure, well paid jobs in this country. Obviously in this particular case, a model of its kind perhaps for agreements with other countries and a real push forward. But that's the sort of meeting with a concrete outcome that I think makes a massive difference.

[Jimmy]

And how, how does that relate? Because sometimes people look at these sort of bilateral meetings in these grand state rooms and see the flags and so

[Keir Starmer]

on, and they think, well, that doesn't

[Jimmy]

necessarily relate to me, but, but how does it?

[Keir Starmer]

Oh well, let me take that on because I we do get this challenge which is how does that international work really help us domestically? The example I give today is obviously Czech Republic and the UK working together on small modular reactors. Huge of investment into Rolls Royce, which will be well paid jobs. But spin back to last week, we had the state visit of President Macron at the end of which we signed a returns agreement for those that have come across the channel in small boats, which will help us break the model of the gangs that are running that vile trade. Again, going from the international stage right back to an issue that matters hugely to the voters here. So translating that one Other example I'll give you, which is very important to me, is the deal I was able to do with President Trump. The trade deal had a direct impact on jlr. I went up to Solihull to jlr. They sell into the North American market. Fantastic. Jaguar Land Rover, iconic British firm and business. But they were under real threat with the tariffs. By reducing the tariffs because the agreement we made, 44,000 jobs are more secured now than they would otherwise have been. That's all the jobs in the supply market. So whether it's the deal this afternoon, which is small modular reactors, whether it's the returns agreement last week with the French or the deal with the U.S. each of them translates directly into something that matters back here at home. And I think that's really important. It doesn't work if you don't invest in the personal relations with other, with other leaders.

[Jimmy]

And you've got a big announcement on electric vehicles coming tomorrow as well.

[Keir Starmer]

Yeah, this is a big announcement to incentivize the purchase of electric vehicles. We are leading the way on electric vehicles. There's a transformation going on. We will move through to electric vehicles and this incentivizes it by bringing a big knockoff on the price so people can afford electric vehicles. Big boost for manufacturing and creating conditions, if you like, of stability and certainty in the market which our car manufacturers want. We're really good at car manufacturing, but we just need to put that support in.

[Jimmy]

Your son will be turning 17 soon. Will he be getting.

[Keir Starmer]

He's just turned 17 and he came down the stairs the day before his 17th birthday with a big smile on his face, waving his provisional driving license at me. And will he get an electric car? Well, we will probably almost inevitably get him an electric car at some stage. It'll have to be very small to start with. He's got different ideas about how big he wanted, but I do. I grew up in Surrey in the Surrey Kent border. So rural. And I remember just how important having your first car is because for me that was the passport to freedom in terms of being able to get around. But he's now going through that. But his first driving lesson is in just over a week now, so we

[Jimmy]

shall all look and like Keir Starmer talks about the freedom of getting a car, I am looking forward to finally getting one after a few months of not having one. I am beyond excited and a little nervous to be taking the delivery of my first ever electric vehicle from the Octopus Energy team, who are long term backers of this podcast. I'll be Updating you over the coming months of how the literal and metaphorical journey of an electric vehicle is going to go. If you are interested in getting a heat pump, solar panels or an electric vehicle, do check out the Octopus Energy website. They've got lots of different ways now that you can kind of electrify your home. And of course, you can drop us a line at jimmy octopus.energy, if you're already with them and already doing it. I would love to hear how it's going as well. Let us know in the comments below. Brilliant. And we've got this for you as well. It's got a few. This is what it did on AI earlier. It's got a few ton of AI. Yeah, it's got a few Easter eggs in there, as the kids call it. Orange juice, because I know you like that.

[Keir Starmer]

Oh, God, yeah, That's brilliant.

[Jimmy]

Lost pandas, donkeys. Oh, that is Morris Miner in the background as well.

[Keir Starmer]

That really goes. What just done as well. And the Arsenal logo.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's. That's. And the flute.

[Keir Starmer]

And the AI opportunities actually planned. Yeah, yeah, it was amazing.

[Jimmy]

I just saw them.

[Keir Starmer]

Oh, that's brilliant. Thank you very much. Half an hour earlier, did you use AI for that? Yeah, yeah, I just used AI and just put in.

[Jimmy]

So I'd read the Baldwin book over the weekend and was like, what are the interesting sort of bits that we can kind of put in, et cetera. So great stuff. Yeah, brilliant.

[Keir Starmer]

Really good to see. Is it weird being back in here?

[Jimmy]

It is a bit. I hope you found that interesting. I'm going to spend the second half now talking a little bit about what goes into making a podcast like this, what Keir Starmer said and some reflections, particularly on AI and what it says about the new media order that's being developed. If you heard our episode with Tony Blair at the end of last year, you'll know that I've reflected on this before. The research that I like to put in ahead of a major interview and how I want to try and understand who I'm going to be interviewing almost better than they do. The way I like to think of it is almost like an actor getting a brief and we have to build an entire character about them. Now, obviously, the main thing that happens with this is you go to primary sources, speeches that they've given, you look at biographies that have been written about them. But of course, one of the big changes since that we did the Blair interview is how much AI is now involved in the process and how much deep research is Also used on all of this. Oh, and we also now like to make little AI cartoons of them as well that have all these different things that sum them up and present them with it at the end. But at the core of an interview like this, it's always about the people. I'm fascinated by people that go into public service, what drives them, what shapes them, why they choose to do it, what toughens them up along the way. I've always admired the resilience it takes to be at the top of politics and it's fascinating getting to understand their backstories and the things that matter to them along the way, the that make up the politician that we see presented to us. And also you have to think about it from their angle. Why does the PM want to come on the show? What does he want to get out of it? Well, there are 100,000 subscribers across all the platforms now, many of whom lean center right and are interested in entrepreneurship and business. It's not his natural audience, but it's a growing one, so he'll want to reach out to those people. And of course the reach on social will will be many millions more. There's also the Trump factor. Trump's impact on the podcasting world has changed. The media playbook and the number 10 team clearly see the opportunity to try and experiment. Though by 2029, when Starmer will be running for re election, Trump will no longer be US president. Although he may not have quite left the world stage. Starmer and Trump are very different in lots of ways, but perhaps most starkly is the language. Starmer, as a former lawyer, chooses his words with deliberate precision, both written and spoken. It's clear that the freewheeling nature of podcasting and creators will play a major role in shaping the national conversation. In the uk, we are still behind the US in a lot of this stuff. We've got a few handful of podcasting Goliaths, but not much of a German Mittelstand of them. We're missing the equivalence of the Aston Villas, Evertons, Derby Counties, the big clubs that should be challenging for Europe. So when I was prepping for this interview, I was talking to the AI about various strategies that we could try and employ to make the most of. It came back with something slightly surprising. It said, I was half parky, half punk. I asked it to clarify what it meant by that and it said, I've got just about enough Michael Parkinson in me to be trusted by the establishment, but enough edge to cause trouble when needed. I wasn't really sure whether I should be flattered or mildly insulted, but it certainly did provoke a few thoughts. And I do think there's a kind of grain of truth in where it's coming from. After all, I've worked at the Institute of Directors, 10 Downing street and for the King Honours Awards for Enterprise. I've always tried to use those platforms and institutions to connect them with new ideas in the next part of our economy, the new economy, as it were. In that sense, I do think I sat at quite a unique position. I understand how number 10 operates. I understand the job of a Prime Minister. Let me say something about Keir Starmer. From the outset, he's not someone that I know personally. His world has been human rights, the law, justice. Mine has been business, wealth creation and skills. So it's not really a great surprise that we've haven't found ourselves in many of the same rooms before. But I always start from a place of respect for those who go into public service and are trying to do that job and the many trade offs that come with it. Diane often springs to mind as somebody else who I doubt we'd agree on 1% of stuff, if that. But I can still recognize that being a black woman elected to parliament in 1983 with a huge and significant moment for both her and the country. I think Starmer too has been a bit miscast, seen as a London lawyer enjoying champagne. But his early years were far more regional and provincial than many people assume. Yes, we know the meme about his dad being a tool maker, but less known is how disabled his mother was. She was told that she'd never have children and went on to have four. That alone is a remarkable story. The Tom Baldwin biography offers a few interesting insights about him. One that struck me was how uncomfortable and how unnatural Keir Starmer finds it to talk about his parents now that he's in his 60s. Also, he grew up in a house that didn't have a television for years and even when they got one they weren't allowed to watch that much. Football became an escape, something he could do in the playgrounds and at break times when he hadn't seen the show that everyone was talking about the night before. It's little details like that that give you a really interesting insight and portrait of the person you're about to interview. We even had a quick fire question about who would play you in a Netflix series, but we decided we'd probably drop that one in the end. Now, when it comes to preparing the questions, this is obviously the most important bit. So you Want to start off with solid foundations. That's why I was curious how Starmer had earned his first few pounds or his first few pence. It turned out for anyone, the moment that you trade time for money is formative. I'd read he'd work for his dad during a gap year, but coming from such a working class background, I expected there may well have been some earlier gigs, some Saturday jobs along the way that hadn't been made public before. The answer about farming surprised me. We knew time with the PM would be short. During my time at number 10, I don't remember many interviews going over 20 minutes and I was chatting to David Cameron's former press secretary and he said he only remembered one interview breaking the 30 minute mark and that was test match special with Agars. And yes, of course I was asked to include a couple of questions on current announcements around SMRs and electric vehicles. But my main goal that I wanted to get into was artificial intelligence. Peter Kyle had told us on this show just the previous week how passionate the Prime Minister is about it. And a few of his senior advisors have said the same to me as well. He's really leaned into it. So I wanted to know if he agreed with what Peter Karl said and what he sees coming. Because of course, if we really are going to have AGI by the next election, that is going to be a transformational impact on our economy. And I don't think many people in Westminster or beyond have frankly got to grips yet with what a seismic change that that could mean for our economy this time. And of course we wanted to do a few quick fires, see what they're like when they're not on the podium, ask a few different things that could be get into in different ways, like who would win the Apprentice. That's always interesting because there's a few different ways that they could go about that. There was one topic that I really wanted to explore but didn't have time. How do we build a culture of enterprise? I've spoken before about how policy changes from the national living wage to the increase in NICs to increased employment law, have all had cumulative impacts on small and growing businesses being done at the same time. It just makes it very difficult for them to hire more people, particularly when combined at the same time. You've got serious headwinds layered on top of that when it comes to TIPS tariffs and the accelerating AI transition just makes it really difficult for businesses to hire. So I wanted to ask how do we rebuild the appetite to hire? How do we grow not Just through policy, but in terms of culture as well. To his credit, Star has brought in several entrepreneurs into key positions across his government. Matt Clifford has been his AI advisor. Alex the pledge going in to advise Rachel Reeves, James Timson become the prison's minister. All former guests on the show. When it comes to AI, most people will benefit eventually from the transition, as they do with all technological revolutions. But it will be brutal for some. This time it might not be the factory workers and the coal miners that we spoke about in the interview with Keir Starmer. It may well be the middle classes, and I don't think we've started preparing for that properly yet. I don't think anyone has anywhere around the world. But I think it could be a seismic change in the way that our economies are structured. And to that end, we're at the beginning of a new media order as well. Ten years ago, this interview would not have been possible. Five years ago, it would have seemed a ridiculous long shot. But last year, podcasting and YouTube interviews helped decide the world's biggest election. Now you've got the Prime Minister listening to podcasts in the car. The world is changing fast. Where people are getting their news from is shifting dramatically, as is the trust and authenticity of these shows. It's not just about who gets interviewed. It's about how the lines between journalist, interviewer, creator and citizen, they are all rapidly blurring. Jimmy's jobs of the future is not even five years old. I could not have imagined how far it would come in that time and where it will go over the next five years. But I really do hope you subscribe. Stick around for the ride. It helps us get bigger and bigger guests and we will endeavour to bring you interesting conversations about the future of our economy through the prism of jobs.