Lord Michael Spencer: The Future of Enterprise

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Jimmy’s Jobs of the Future

Episode: Lord Michael Spencer: The Future of Enterprise
Date: May 19, 2026
Host: Jimmy McLoughlin (Boxlight Creative Studio)
Guest: Lord Michael Spencer (Industrialist, former CEO of ICAP, Conservative Party fundraiser, Chairman of the Centre for Policy Studies)

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Main Theme / Purpose

In this episode, Jimmy sits down with Lord Michael Spencer, one of the most influential figures in British finance and Tory politics, to discuss the challenges facing the future of enterprise and the economy. The conversation centers on Lord Spencer’s role as Chairman of the Centre for Policy Studies (CPS), the recruitment of a new executive director, the importance of think tanks in shaping policy, and the broader economic and political landscape post-Conservative government. The tone is candid, reflective, and at times critical, focusing on lessons from UK economic history, the case for enterprise, and the responsibilities of intellectual leadership on the right.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Lord Spencer’s Career & Experience

• His Transition from Business to Policy:
  • Founded ICAP in 1986 with £50,000, grew it to become the world’s largest wholesale brokerage with 5,500 staff and FTSE 100 status, eventually leaving after 30+ years (02:56–04:50).
    • “I started the company in 1986 with 50,000 quid. 20 years later as a FTSE 100 company… the biggest wholesale brokerage firm in the world.” (Lord Michael Spencer, 02:59)
  • Shifted to managing a private portfolio via IPGL after leaving ICAP.
• Long-Standing Involvement in Conservative Politics:
  • Active since student days in the 1970s; lived through and energized by the Thatcher revolution.
  • Served as Treasurer for the Conservative Party during Cameron’s ascension (2007–2010)—hard, but fulfilling work because of belief in the project.
    • “Being treasurer is a tough job. It really is. But I actually really enjoyed it… because I believed I was on a project that was important.” (05:26)
  • Fundraising was a thick-skin endeavor—sold a story to supporters, not taking rejections personally.

The Role and Value of the Centre for Policy Studies

• Chairman’s Responsibilities & CPS Mission:

  • Chairman facilitates, networks, ensures board support, raises funds, but doesn’t run the day-to-day. The executive director leads intellectual direction (09:46–11:15).
    • “The chairman does not run the think tank or the company… My job is to chair it, get a board together that support it, put an effort into raising financing… help network, help bring people in…” (09:46)
  • CPS as an “evangelical organization” for free enterprise, advocate for lower taxation, less regulation, and intellectual groundwork for future policy.
  • Importance of think tanks in preparing policies before a party returns to government; critique of lack of planning on both sides of politics (12:00–13:20).
    • “Politicians, even in the shadow cabinet, don’t really have the time… to think of, come on, what are the 10 big things that we need to do?” (12:12)

• Executive Director Role – The Wishlist:

  • Seeking candidates who are effective both behind-the-scenes and in public communication—more broadcast, TV, podcasting.
    • “We want somebody who’s going to do more. More media... Maybe go on Question Time. Maybe do… more regular podcasting.” (15:20)
  • Need to translate complex economic arguments to the public, e.g., why price fixing leads to economic stagnation, the value of business, billionaires, and enterprise (15:20–17:00).

Economic and Political Concerns

• Brain Drain and Economic Exodus:
  • Spencer is adamant the UK is experiencing a renewed ‘brain drain’—talented individuals leaving due to lack of trust in current government (17:10–17:30).
    • “I don’t think. I know… I know large numbers of personal friends who… don’t trust this government. We’re out.” (17:13)
• Failure to Champion Business and Enterprise:
  • Critiques both recent Conservative politicians and the Left for not making the positive case for business; regrets loss of non-doms and demonization of wealth (17:58–18:40).
    • “The Conservative politicians have not often made the case for why business is so important, why highly paid people are valuable to us… Why did we… give up on the non doms, which is madness to me.” (17:58)
• Talent Attraction in Westminster:
  • MPs in the UK are underpaid compared to places like Singapore; personal and financial costs, public scrutiny, and even violence deter talent (18:46–20:19).

The Ecosystem of UK Think Tanks

• Too Many on the Centre-Right?
  • UK has many well-focused think tanks (CSJ on welfare, Policy Exchange on foreign affairs, Onward, IEA). Each has its niche, but size and funding pale compared to US institutes like Brookings (20:30–21:32).
    • “Talking to Americans, they consider that we are financially microscopic. The think tanks like the Brookings Institute there have proper money…” (21:32)
• Political Fundraising – Limits and Consequences:
  • UK party and campaign financing is minuscule compared to the US, by design; warns against “mega money” domination but acknowledges left’s trade union funding dominance impacts policy, particularly in Labour (22:03–24:11).
    • “I wouldn’t like it to see it suddenly becoming dominated by mega money… you might say the left is dominated by trade union contributions. Which it is. And which I think is a pity for labor.” (22:40)

Final Reflections on Business Policy

• Negative Consequences of Anti-Business Policy:
  • Labour’s present approach is portrayed as punitive to business; misunderstanding margins, costs, and reality results in higher unemployment and less economic growth (24:11–25:14).
    • “Sometimes their thinking is so extraordinary to me that they seem to get sort of vicarious pleasure out of kicking business, hurting business people, thinking somehow that will result in better outcomes.” (24:40)
    • “You can almost like Dennis Healey’s famous words, squeeze them till the pips squeak. Well, I mean, the exodus of people has given answered that question for you.” (25:14)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On starting and building ICAP:

  • “I started the company in 1986 with 50,000 quid. 20 years later as a FTSE 100 company… built it into the biggest wholesale brokerage firm in the world.” (Lord Michael Spencer, 02:59)

• On political fundraising:

  • “Raising money for politics is bloody hard work… You’ve got to have a thick skin, you’ve got to expect rejection and I just went around selling a story.” (06:06)

• On the role of intellectual groundwork:

  • “Politicians… don’t really have the time… to think of, come on, what are the 10 big things… and by the way, you need to prepare before you get into government.” (12:12)

• On the brain drain:

  • “I don’t think. I know… large numbers of personal friends…said ‘We don’t trust this government, we’re out.’” (17:13)

• On defending enterprise:

  • “We need to be verbally making these arguments of why is business important? Why are we mad to be trying to chase out billionaires…? Socialists loathe rich people. They really do.” (16:10)

• On the realities of UK political financing:

  • “We don’t want it as high as [the US]… a presidential campaign now comes to several billions of dollars. Billions of dollars, not hundreds of millions.” (22:19)

• On Labour’s approach to businesses:

  • “The understanding of how business works in the Labour Party, I would say, is all but non-existent.” (24:53)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:56–04:50 – Lord Spencer details the rise and exit from ICAP; early days in the City of London.
• 05:26–06:10 – His years as Treasurer for David Cameron, philosophy of political fundraising.
• 09:46–11:15 – What a think tank chairman does; CPS’s purpose; operational/strategic differences from business.
• 12:12–13:20 – Why think tanks must prepare intellectual frameworks for parties out of power.
• 15:20–17:00 – Need for more public-facing media from the CPS; importance of economic communication.
• 17:10–17:30 – Evidence and anecdote of UK’s new “brain drain.”
• 18:46–20:19 – Attracting talent to Westminster/MPs compensation and lifestyle in comparative perspective.
• 20:30–21:32 – Overview of the UK right-of-centre think tank ecosystem; comparison to US.
• 22:03–24:11 – Reflections on money in UK politics, campaign funding, and trade union influence.
• 24:11–25:14 – The consequences of anti-business policy; misunderstanding margins and economic repercussions.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Lord Michael Spencer offers a wide-ranging, forthright perspective on the interplay between enterprise, politics, and policy in the UK. He outlines the crucial role think tanks play in developing a genuine intellectual foundation for government and business, emphasizing the need for better public advocacy and preparation in opposition. The conversation is rich in economic history, critical of anti-business politics, and full of practical reflections on leadership, funding, and how the right can regain relevance and effectiveness in shaping Britain’s future.

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Transcript

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[Jimmy]

A couple of weeks ago we were at the heart of the City of London at the Guildhall at the center for Policy Studies Margaret Thatcher Enterprise Conference. It was an amazing day filled with speakers looking at how we grow the economy. I chaired a panel with Alex Baldock, the CEO of Currys, and Greg Jackson, the Chief Executive and founder of Octopus Energy. The media partner for the day was the Telegraph and it was really inspiring afternoon of speakers. But at the side of it, I actually spoke to one of Britain's most famous industrialists, one of the most consequential business leaders of the last four decades, Lord Michael Spencer. He founded ICAP way back in the day and was one of the first fintech companies to ever exist in the City of London. He has been a friend and a mentor over the years to me, so it was great to sit down with him and talk about his role as Chairman at the Centre for Policy Studies and how they're recruiting for a new executive director who is going to take over from the great Robert Colville. So we were specifically speaking about that what the Conservative Party and more broadly the right wing of politics needs to be doing in these years of opposition to think about the future, think about how it lays the groundwork. Because I think anyone that is seeing what's going on in politics at the moment can see that some of that thinking has not been done by parties in opposition before. So without further ado, here's Lord Spencer. Make sure you subscribe so we can continue to get bigger and Bigger guests. Well, welcome to Jimmy's job. To the future, pleasure to have you on.

[Interviewer]

You know, I've wanted to do.

[Lord Michael Spencer]

It's a pleasure to be here, of course.

[Interviewer]

What does make up your days now?

[Lord Michael Spencer]

Lots of things, mostly good things, obviously, beforehand. For many years, as you know, I ran a public company, iCap. Long story, I won't bore you with it now, but it was, you know, it was a great story. I started the company in 1986 with 50,000 quid. 20 years later as a FTSE 100 company. Didn't raise $1 between 1986 and 2006. Built it into the biggest wholesale brokerage firm in the world. 60 odd offices, 5,500 staff and world leader in our space. But that business was taken over in two stages, in 2017 and 2018, after which suddenly, in 2018, I was no longer chief executive of a company, the same company I'd been CEO of for 30 years. I mean, long enough. And funnily enough, I didn't suffer any remorse at all. I'd worked in the city since 1976 to 2018, apart from one year in Japan, all in a small part of the City, around London Wall, Finsbury Circus, Broadgate and astonishingly, you know, I knew every bar, every restaurant, every nook and cranny, the bank of England, you know, all the banking houses. I knew pretty much all of them. And suddenly, suddenly I was out. Suddenly I was out. But I knew what I was going to do. I had a small office in the West End in Sloane street, and I went there to basically run my private portfolio of business interests through my private vehicle company called ipgl. But that's not what you really want to talk about. You want to talk about some of the other stuff. And I've, as you know, through your father, I have been involved in the Conservative Party for a very long time. And even as an undergraduate, unusual in those days, in the 70s, I was a Conservative then and I remained Conservative and I got caught up by the mid late 70s Thatcher revolution. Yeah, and I saw it firsthand. I remember what the UK was like in the 70s. I was a student in the 70s. I remember the winter of discontent, I remember the three day week. I remember all those ghastly things that we went through and I was fervent, actual believer. And so I really stayed with the party all along, although my business career distracted me, But. And I worked for Cameron, as you know, for three years, being his treasurer, his fundraiser from 2007 to 2010. Being treasurer is a tough job. It really is. But I actually really enjoyed it. I enjoyed it because I believed I was on a project that was important. Yeah, that I believed in. I thought Brown was steadily destroying our economy, which he was. That Cameron Osborne were the best people to turn it round, which I thought they were and they were. And so I felt proud about taking on that campaign. And although raising money for politics is bloody hard work, I actually enjoyed it because I decided early on if people weren't going to give me money, I wasn't going to take it personally. You've got to have a thick skin, you've got to expect rejection and I just went around selling a story. Do you believe. Do you care about who's in power or not? Do you care about elections? Do you actually want the Conservatives to win? If you don't want the Conservatives to win, I really won't bother you anymore at all. But if they say yes, I do want the Conservatives to win. Yes, we need the Conservatives to back in power for all the reasons we will no doubt come to again in a moment. I said, well, just so you know, politics doesn't come for free. So if you want it to happen, I need you to help financially and you try and make it a journey which you take your supporters on, which is fun, interesting. They feel they're part of a campaign, you know, part of a campaign, a crusade. Well, maybe that's too strong a word. So I did that for three years. I told Cameron I'd do it till the election because honestly, our CEO of FTSE 100 company well, you know what,

[Jimmy]

quite a busy job anyway, I got

[Lord Michael Spencer]

a full time job, I didn't need another one anyway, so I stopped doing that then. But I stayed in touch with the party of course, and I've always remained friends with Cameron, Osborne and most of the team from that generation and cps. So anyway, anyway, I unrelated all that's going on in the Conservative Party. Morris Archie was stepping down as chairman of this CPS after a long period in 2019 and I was approached if I would like to take it on. And I thought that's a brilliant opportunity. I mean it's a proper interesting job. I think the CPS is without doubt for me at least easily the leading center right think tank. I mean it was clearly critical in the ideas and philosophy and the thinking and the research behind Thatcher's critical revolution, if you care to call it that, when she came into power in 1979. And I absolutely believe that Thatcher absolutely was responsible for turning the UK economy around from being a Basket case. And it was a basket case in the 70s. I mean, I remember it, I remember being, I know it sounds awful, but of being really slightly ashamed to be British. And yet I felt very proud at one level to be an Englishman. And at another level I felt rather ashamed when people said, gosh, your poor old country is not what it used to be. Sick man of Europe, you know, turn off, you know, will the last person who leaves turn off the lights? You know, that sort of little jibes that people made. And I felt really. And so I really, I, you know, it's what Thatcher did to turn around the economy from being smothered by socialism. You know, on the surface socialism sounds so fair and generous. Must redistribute things so everyone is treated the same. And everyone. Of course it doesn't. All they do is they basically smother the entrepreneurs, the creatives. So anyway, I jumped at the chance of being chairman of the cps.

[Interviewer]

And what, what does the think tank do and what does the chair of think tank do as a result?

[Lord Michael Spencer]

Well, my job, I have a very strong view, part different from when I was working in business. The chairman does not run the think tank or the company for that matter. The chief executive runs it or in this case, a director. Robert Colville, an exceptional. He'd been doing it before I'd ride for about five years and indeed has been. He's been there ever since then. Sadly he's retiring now, as you know, for perfectly understandable reasons. So he was director. He had a really good pedigree. He was a very capable, very hard working, very bright guy. I obviously met him, spent some time with him, we got on well and I thought, you know what actually helping the CPS to prosper and build its connections, build its network, which I'm good at. I mean I look at Robert to be the intellectual behind it. A lot of. Not all of the ideas. I certainly have ideas myself, but the organizer who can run the business. My job is to chair it, get a board together that support it, put an effort into raising financing. Financing is obviously important and provide some guidance and help, help network, help bring people in to support us, to spread the word. Because we're effectively an evangelical organization.

[Interviewer]

That description. What other skills? Because like you say, part of the reason that we're chatting is that you are recruiting for a new executive director, kind of day to day leader. What are the other skills that you're looking for in that role?

[Lord Michael Spencer]

I think it's difficult when you're losing somebody as he's just Been as outstanding as Robert, who's been Sentinel, a Sentinel leader. The good news is he's leaving the organization in great shape. So that's a good thing. So actually we've already got a large number of candidates come forward and some very, very good names too. What do we need? We want somebody who can get out there and not only just do the work and the research, I mean, I want us to build the intellectual framework and politicians, even in the shadow cabinet don't really have the time to go there or the resources to go there and think of, come on, what are the 10 big things that we need to do? How do they work? What are we going to do it? And by the way, you need to prepare before you get into government. I mean, look at the absurdity of the current government. For all their bullshit about the conservatives being. Well, not, not without some degree of bullshit anyway. You know, the conservatives have been in power for 14 years. Where the hell were they preparing in that 14 years? I mean, what the hell were they doing? For all their criticism of the Conservative Party, they were so totally unprepared. I mean, it would be funny if it wasn't serious. It has been the worst incoming administration that I can think of, mind you. Thank God we had never had a foot administration. Thank God we never had a Kinnock administration. Thank God we didn't have a Jeremy Corbyn administration. But you know, Tony Blair and you know, there are many things one could criticize him, came in with a clear plan of what he was going to do and it looked professional and it looked slick. Starmer and crew look like a bunch of absolute clowns. I mean it's been. I mean it would be funny if it wasn't so serious. So the core to our job, as I see it in the CPS with the new director is really to put in the legwork and the intellectual exploration and discovery of. Right. What are the policies that we're getting? Of course, we all know the big picture. The big picture is we believe that lower taxation encourages growth. I really do believe that. By the way, I'm not saying that as some mantra, you know, lower taxation encourages growth. More individual freedom encourages growth. Less regulation, you can overregulate. All of those things we all see as the big picture stuff. But what are the details? What are the real implemented details here? What's the sequencing? And I think that's very, very important work to do. And that's what the CPS hopefully is, well, should be resourced to do and focus on. And I see that as our principal objective, if you ask me. Is there anything particular I'd like a new director to do? I would say that Robert does very well in terms of producing published output. He writes a very good column for the Sunday Times, as you know, pretty much every week. He has significant connections within the Conservative Party, particularly, although we have engaged with reform too. By the way, we had at the conference today, Robert Jenrick recently. Xtory speaking. And I. But what. And we also have our own blog, you know, Capex, which is being pretty successful. But I think what certainly the board have reflected to me, and we've got a very strong board at the cps. I think we want somebody who's going to do more. More media in not just the print media.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, Broadcast.

[Lord Michael Spencer]

Broadcast. So broadcast. Maybe, you know, go on tv, maybe go on Question Time. Maybe do. I mean, to be honest with you, we need to work out what they want to do, but maybe maybe do a sort of regular. More regular podcasting. But I mean, we want. Basically, one of the things that's come out again and again for, for example, in the conference today is, and I think Greg Jackson made the point that polling for no is Alex Bulldog. When polled, the public at large would prefer that prices were fixed rather than. And 80% voted that fixing prices was a good thing. Little realizing that actually that is a slippery slope to a completely sclerotic economy. And we need to be verbally making these arguments of why is business important? Why are we mad to be trying to chase out billionaires from our country? Why don't we thank people for being rich as opposed to, you know, loathing them? I mean, the socialists loathe rich people. They really do. And we shouldn't. We should be grateful that we should be thanking them for living in our country. We should be trying to get the billionaires back. Of course we should. They make a massive contribution to our economy. And yet we seem to think it's irrelevant when lots of our talented youngsters are leaving our country in droves. I mean, I remember in the 70s we had a brain drain leaving the country. And since then we've had obviously a complete reversal of that. But the brain drain of talent is going out of the country.

[Jimmy]

Do you think we've got a brain

[Interviewer]

drain happening again now?

[Lord Michael Spencer]

Yes. I don't think. I know. I obviously won't tell you who, but I know large numbers of personal friends who have said, you know what? We don't trust this government. We're out. I mean, loads of.

[Interviewer]

How has politics changed in the years

[Jimmy]

that You've been involved.

[Interviewer]

You've always been sort of like adjacent to it.

[Lord Michael Spencer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And so it's interesting the role that you're recruiting for in terms of like, it needs to create intellectual framework powerhouse for the party, but also take that to the country as well a little bit. Right. Remind people why business and enterprise is good. Which I do think was both what Greg and Alex were saying in their session. That actually it's, you know, that's not a given anymore.

[Lord Michael Spencer]

No, no, absolutely not. And very. It's one of the things that's frustrated me in the past 20 years. The Conservative politicians have not often made the case for why business is so important, why highly paid people are valuable to us. Why, by the way, why we. Why we don't. Why. Why did we. The Conservatives gave up on the non doms, which is madness to me. Every single one of the major non doms, I believe has left this country and that is at enormous cost to us and who, you know. And only the extreme left are happy because they live with some, they love punishing.

[Interviewer]

If we've got a brain drain. Do you also think that we've got a talent attraction problem with Westminster as well?

[Lord Michael Spencer]

I think they're unconnected. I think the problem with Westminster is on multiple levels. To start with, I think MPs are badly underpaid. I was in Singapore last week and I think an average MP in Singapore gets paid, I think I was told, US$450,000 a year or thereabouts.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Lord Michael Spencer]

I think our MPs are materially underpaid. Okay. So they pick up bits extra with financial support, but secretaries and so forth. I think the intrusion into their private lives as well is pretty brutal. And of course we've had tragic incidents of violence in recent years. And I do think that we do need some reflection on how can we make this job genuinely more attractive, not just financially, but as a job of that people can live a normal life and respect and things that go with that. It seems extremely adversarial in the House of Commons from what I encounter. Whereas the House of Lords, which admittedly I don't go to very regularly bump into your father occasionally. I think the atmosphere there is much more collegiate, much more cooperative.

[Interviewer]

Any final thoughts on where you think the sort of future of think tanking, the kind of intellectual right needs to go?

[Lord Michael Spencer]

I think they perform a very important task, very valuable task and we've got a lot of good think tanks in the uk, arguably too many actually on the center right. I won't comment about which ones I think are the best, but we've got some good ones. And each, in a way, has their own. Niche is probably the wrong word, but their own focus. Csj, which I've been involved with center for Social justice, set up by Ian Duncan Smith more than about 25 years ago now, obviously focus is very much on welfare and I think has done an extremely powerful job. Policy Exchange has really built its gaff more really about foreign affairs, military than. But it does delve elsewhere. Probably the most similar to us is Onward. IEA has got some space of its own. New boss there with Dan Hannon going there.

[Interviewer]

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[Lord Michael Spencer]

But I think probably. I think I'm interested. Talking to Americans, they consider that we are financially microscopic. The think tanks like the Brookings Institute there have proper money and Resolution foundation is very well funded, although they're slightly on the other political spectrum to where I am. But, yes, that's maybe something I'll work on now.

[Interviewer]

But how do we get more money? Because I do think it's true that a lot of British politics is not just the salary of politicians. It's also the amount allowed to spend on election campaigns is microscopic compared to America. We might not want it as high as that, but we are trying to persuade.

[Lord Michael Spencer]

No, no, we don't want it as high as that. And bear in mind a presidential campaign now comes to several billions of dollars. Billions of dollars, not hundreds of millions.

[Interviewer]

But there's a price involved with politics, like you said with your old job of treasurer of the Conservative Party. Right.

[Lord Michael Spencer]

In fairness, I'm not quite as au fait now as I used to be about party fundraising. I wouldn't like it to see it suddenly becoming dominated by mega money. It's not dominated. I mean, you might say the left is dominated by trade union contributions. Which it is. Which it is. And which I think is a pity for labor because I would say their recent employment bill, which is a shocking and destructive bill to the economy and actually to what they care about, to employment, it will actually cost jobs. I mean, sometimes their thinking is so extraordinary to me that they seem to get sort of vicarious pleasure out of kicking business, hurting business and hurting business people, thinking somehow that will result in better outcomes. And look what happened on stamp duty. Not stamp duty, employers. NI they thought, wow, great, we can give all those business people a kick in the groin. Great news, raise some money, blame it on the Tories. Bob's your uncle. Actually, it's cost a lot of people their jobs. And they didn't even think that could be possible. The understanding of how business works in the Labour Party, I would say, is all but non existent.

[Interviewer]

Exactly. Well, Alex Baldock saying that their margin's 2% across the business. So if you put extra costs on

[Lord Michael Spencer]

business, what do you think's going to happen?

[Interviewer]

Exactly. Prices go up and we're gonna have to make people redundant.

[Jimmy]

Like it's.

[Lord Michael Spencer]

Yeah, yeah. It's not rocket science. No, no. But the socialists genuinely believe that business, banks, wealthy people, billionaires have got unlimited amounts of money. You can just, you know, almost like Dennis. Dennis Healey's famous words, squeeze them till the pips squeak. Well, I mean, the exodus of people has given answered that question for you. And also the shrinking of net investment into the UK tells you the story as well. Yeah, I mean, we have no hope of generating sustained economic growth in this country with the Labour Party using policies that it is adopting at this moment. It just won't happen.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, well, we must get you back to talk for longer soon. But thanks for organizing a brilliant day here at the CPS conference. It's been fascinating some of the business people that you've been able to put together.

[Lord Michael Spencer]

It's very nice to see you again.