Jocko Podcast Episode 472: "Avoiding the Pressure Won't Get You Anywhere" with Matt Hasby
Podcast Information:
- Title: Jocko Podcast
- Host/Author: Jocko Willink / DEFCOR Network
- Description: Retired Navy SEAL, Jocko Willink, and Director Echo Charles discuss discipline and leadership in business, war, relationships, and everyday life.
- Episode: 472: Avoiding the Pressure Won't Get You Anywhere. W/ Matt Hasby
- Release Date: January 8, 2025
Introduction
In Episode 472 of the Jocko Podcast, Jocko Willink and Echo Charles welcome Matt Hasby, a seasoned Navy SEAL with extensive combat and leadership experience. The episode delves deep into Matt’s harrowing experiences during deployments, the immense pressure faced in combat situations, and the pivotal lessons learned about leadership and discipline.
Deployment to Ramadi: Under Fire and Leadership in Action
Matt begins by recounting a tense deployment in Ramadi, where his unit, Tasking A Bruiser, was stationed at Camp Corregidor. The camp was under constant attack from mortars, indirect fire, and rocket attacks. Matt describes the swift action taken by his team, particularly the deployment of snipers to secure the perimeter.
Matt Hasby [00:05]: "We put snipers in the towers and pretty quickly, a couple SEAL snipers killed some insurgents putting IDs in and whatnot."
During their time in Corregidor, Matt shares a critical incident where an RPG hit a sniper tower, resulting in a fellow SEAL, Crazy Joe (Gunfighter 6), narrowly surviving. This incident underscores the relentless danger SEALs face daily.
Matt Hasby [04:30]: "The RPG detonated in front of him and blew his weapon in half. He was lucky to be alive."
Quote Highlight:
Jocko Willink [06:56]: "That was, I will never forget that moment with how cool I thought I sounded and how reality I got checked with."
Leadership Under Pressure: Owning the Moment
As Matt recounts his experiences, he emphasizes the importance of leadership under extreme pressure. He narrates a moment during training where he failed a critical underwater swim test but chose to persevere rather than quit, demonstrating resilience and ownership.
Matt Hasby [07:05]: "I knew something changed as they put a blanket on and they give me the..."
This willingness to own his shortcomings and push through adversity highlights a fundamental theme of the episode: avoiding the temptation to shirk responsibility under pressure.
Quote Highlight:
Jocko Willink [25:31]: "He [Matt] made the entire move. All the pressure, he took on his shoulders and never wavered."
Transition to Civilian Life: From Navy SEAL to Management Consultant
After years of distinguished service, Matt discusses his transition from active duty to civilian life. He speaks candidly about the challenges of shifting from high-stress combat roles to the corporate environment, where the skills and mental toughness developed in the military are equally valuable but applied differently.
Matt Hasby [175:32]: "I was like, oh, I think I can make a run for this. And you and I were sitting at boxing club..."
Jocko provides insights into how leadership is a learned skill, comparing it to Jiu-Jitsu or mastering a weapon, emphasizing that effective leaders are not born but made through experience and continuous learning.
Quote Highlight:
Jocko Willink [231:19]: "Leadership is a skill that you learn. Just like you learn an arm lock, you can learn reflect and diminish."
Joining Echelon Front: Consulting and Continuing the Mission
Matt shares his journey into the consulting world, detailing how he leveraged his military experience to excel in leadership roles within Echelon Front. He highlights the importance of networking and continuous personal development, guided by mentors like Carlos, who played a crucial role in his post-military career.
Matt Hasby [189:07]: "Carlos and I became like super tight during this period. And yeah, he helped me kind of network my way into consulting."
Echo Charles adds that Matt’s work at Echelon Front involves applying combat-learned leadership principles to help organizations thrive, underscoring the podcast’s recurring theme of transferring military discipline to civilian success.
Quote Highlight:
Jocko Willink [232:07]: "You have to trust your guys that you're going to do what's right. And if it's not, if you don't need to breach, there's not much you can do."
Personal Growth and Lessons Learned: Discipline Equals Freedom
Throughout the episode, Matt reflects on the profound lessons he garnered from his SEAL career, particularly the mantra "Discipline Equals Freedom." He illustrates how discipline in both small daily tasks and monumental challenges leads to greater personal and professional freedom.
Matt Hasby [235:24]: "It's just so important that you are able to, like, reach and, hey, dude, do you understand what I'm talking about?"
Echo and Jocko discuss the significance of this principle, emphasizing that avoiding pressure and taking ownership are critical to achieving success and maintaining integrity in any field.
Quote Highlight:
Jocko Willink [242:11]: "How long do we have? Echo Charles: 12 hours."
Closing Thoughts: Embracing Pressure and Leadership
In concluding the episode, Jocko and Echo reinforce the core message: avoiding pressure is futile. Instead, embracing and managing pressure through disciplined action and leadership leads to meaningful progress and success.
Jocko Willink [243:54]: "Leadership is a skill that you learn. Just like you learn an arm lock, you can learn reflect and diminish."
They extend appreciation to all service members and first responders, honoring their sacrifices and dedication.
Final Quote Highlight:
Jocko Willink [235:57]: "Life cares about stuff, and when you care about something and it's counter to what you care about, you're gonna get pissed off and frustrated."
Key Takeaways
- Ownership and Resilience: Taking full responsibility for one’s actions and persevering through adversity are essential leadership traits.
- Leadership as a Learned Skill: Effective leadership is developed through experience, continuous learning, and humility.
- Discipline Equals Freedom: Maintaining discipline in all aspects of life leads to greater freedom and success.
- Transitioning Skills to Civilian Life: Military-acquired skills like leadership, teamwork, and strategic thinking are highly valuable in civilian careers.
- Embracing Pressure: Facing and managing pressure head-on is crucial for personal growth and achieving goals.
Notable Quotes
- Matt Hasby [06:55]: "It's a pleasure to be here."
- Jocko Willink [06:56]: "That was, I will never forget that moment with how cool I thought I sounded and how reality I got checked with."
- Jocko Willink [25:31]: "He [Matt] made the entire move. All the pressure, he took on his shoulders and never wavered."
- Jocko Willink [231:19]: "Leadership is a skill that you learn. Just like you learn an arm lock, you can learn reflect and diminish."
- Jocko Willink [242:11]: "How long do we have? Echo Charles: 12 hours."
- Jocko Willink [235:57]: "Leadership is a skill that you learn. Just like you learn an arm lock, you can learn reflect and diminish."
Conclusion
Episode 472 of the Jocko Podcast offers a profound exploration of leadership, discipline, and resilience through Matt Hasby’s extraordinary experiences as a Navy SEAL. Listeners gain invaluable insights into handling pressure, the importance of ownership, and the transformative power of disciplined leadership both in military and civilian contexts. This episode serves as a testament to the adage that avoiding pressure won’t get you anywhere—but embracing it with the right mindset will propel you forward.
For More Information:
- Matt Hasby LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/matt-hasby
- Matt Hasby Instagram: instagram.com/mat_hasb
- Echelon Front: echelonfront.com
- Extreme Ownership Academy: Available through Echelon Front's online training platform.
Support Our Heroes: Consider donating to America's Mighty Warriors and Heroes and Horses to support military families and first responders.