524: How Soldiers and Soldiering Reflect Real Life Every Single Day

Summary

Jocko Podcast 524: "How Soldiers and Soldiering Reflect Real Life Every Single Day"

Release Date: January 21, 2026
Hosts: Jocko Willink & Echo Charles

---

Episode Overview

In Episode 524, Jocko Willink and Echo Charles explore the enduring lessons of military leadership, discipline, and resilience, drawing from the writings of Field Marshal Archibald Wavell. The discussion examines how the qualities required on the battlefield parallel those needed in business, relationships, and everyday life. Using passages from Wavell’s book Soldiers and Soldiering, Jocko relates historical insights to modern challenges, leadership dynamics, and personal growth.

---

Major Themes and Key Insights

1. The Endurance and Role of the Infantryman

(00:05 – 04:16)

• Jocko opens with a quote from Field Marshal Wavell praising the infantry as the heart of warfare—bearing the greatest burdens and requiring resilience, initiative, and intelligence.
• Notable introduction to the life and achievements of Wavell, illustrating a career built on both victory and adversity.
  “All battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman... He suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms.” – Wavell, via Jocko (00:05)

---

2. Qualities of a General: The Importance of Robustness

(04:46 – 13:30)

• Examination of Socrates’ dichotomous qualities for leadership: energy, observation, being both kindly/cruel, generous/miserly, etc.
• Wavell’s assertion that robustness—the ability to withstand prolonged and unpredictable stress—is the greatest attribute for a general.
• Jocko draws a parallel to Navy SEAL training: resilience can’t be predicted purely by background.

  “Where does that solidity as a human being come from? Is it upbringing? Genetics? Wrestling practice? You never know—SEAL training proves it’s not predictable.” – Jocko (10:58)

---

3. Leadership as Art, Science, and Game

(13:30 – 16:15)

• War is described as neither pure art nor science; it’s more akin to a complex, high-stakes game, with rivals constantly affecting your plans—unlike the stable environments of science and art.
• The unpredictable, adversarial nature of both combat and life is highlighted.

---

4. Courage, Health, and Age in Leadership

(16:45 – 24:35)

• Courage—especially calm resolve under stress—remains vital.

  “The greatest gift you can have is to be able to stay calm.” – Jocko (18:08)

• Physical health is less critical than in pre-modern war. Age can bring wisdom; historic military leaders achieved greatness even in old age.
• Echo and Jocko discuss how aging changes one’s competitive drive, responsibilities, and intellectual priorities.

---

5. Applied Learning and The Transmission of Skill

(24:40 – 30:00)

• Analogies from sports and jiu jitsu: mastery requires hands-on experience, observation, guidance, and repeatedly ‘feeling’ your way through learning.
• The importance of not just theoretical knowledge but real-world trial and adaptation.

---

6. Risk, Boldness, and Luck in Command

(37:50 – 41:04)

• To be great, a leader must possess both fighting spirit and “a touch of the gambler.” Luck in warfare flows from boldness, not caution.

  “A bold general may be lucky, but no general may be lucky unless he is bold.” – Napoleon, via Wavell (40:09)

---

7. Common Sense and the Critical Role of Logistics

(41:04 – 49:04)

• Success depends on practical, common sense—the ability to discern what’s truly possible, rooted in logistical mastery rather than just intricate tactics.
• Jocko and Echo discuss real-world parallels: how poor logistics sabotage initiatives, whether in war, business, or even events like Fyre Festival.

  “Logistics wins wars. That’s what keeps you in the game, in business as well.” – Jocko (43:21)

---

8. Delegation, Staff, and Leading from the Front

(55:10 – 60:15)

• Effective leaders avoid micromanaging their staff and spend more time with troops than behind a desk.

  “Never try to do your own staff work, and never let your staff get between you and your troops.” – Wavell, via Jocko (55:14)

• Leaders must adapt to different subordinates’ strengths, granting autonomy where it is earned.

---

9. Morale, Motivation, and Human Nature

(60:15 – 67:54)

• Soldiers—or people in any cause—endure hardship for personal comfort, survival, and belief in victory more than for abstract ideals.
• The leader’s behavior, presence, and fairness are key to fostering loyalty and effort.
• Jocko emphasizes the dangers of misguided speeches and mishandled attempts to inspire.

---

10. Emotions, Temper, and Sarcasm in Leadership

(67:54 – 71:08)

• Losing one’s temper can be damaging to leadership capital—rare, controlled displays might work but are usually counterproductive. Sarcasm is particularly corrosive.

  “If you’re not careful, that cuts way deeper than you mean it to—especially as a leader.” – Jocko (70:27)

---

11. The Unfakable Nature of Command

(78:55 – 81:48)

• Troops, like animals, intuitively sense authenticity in their leaders; the relationship is compared to a horse and rider.

  “He will never persuade his army he is a good commander unless he has the real qualities of one. The horse knows you’re faking it, and so does your team.” – Jocko (78:54)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Robustness:
  “The mind of the general in war is buried not merely for 48 hours, but for days and weeks in the mud and sand of unreliable information and uncertain factors.” (11:44)
• On Luck and Boldness:
  “Are you lucky? You’re only going to be lucky if you’re bold.” (40:13)
• On Logistics:
  “If you paid $500 to go to a festival and got there and there was no food, no water, nowhere to go to the bathroom—you’d think it was a scam. That’s just a logistical failure.” (44:57)
• On Sarcasm:
  “Sarcasm is always resented and seldom forgiven.” (70:08)
• On Leadership Authenticity:
  “You can’t fake it, man. The horse knows you’re faking it. Your team knows, and you can’t fake it.” (79:14)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |---------------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 00:05–04:16 | Introduction, Wavell’s Infantryman Quote & Life | | 04:46–13:30 | Qualities of a General & the Concept of Robustness | | 13:30–16:15 | War: Art, Science, or Game? | | 16:45–24:35 | Courage, Health, Age in Leadership | | 24:40–30:00 | Skill Acquisition: Lessons from Sports & Life | | 37:50–41:04 | Risk, Luck, and Boldness in Command | | 41:04–49:04 | Common Sense, Logistics, and Admin in Warfare | | 55:10–60:15 | Delegation, Staff Relationships, Frontline Leading | | 60:15–67:54 | Morale, Motivation, and Human Nature | | 67:54–71:08 | Emotional Control, Temper, and Sarcasm | | 78:55–81:48 | Authenticity, Leadership, and the Horse Metaphor |

---

Takeaway Lessons

• Robustness trumps brilliance: The ability to absorb adversity is key in life and leadership.
• Common sense and logistics are vital: Grand strategies fall apart without operational basics.
• Boldness creates luck: Passive caution rarely leads to success.
• Authenticity cannot be faked: Your team intuitively senses when you are ‘playing’ leader rather than being one.
• Leadership is a set of learned skills: You can grow and improve, but only within your genuine character and potential.

---

Conclusion

Jocko and Echo tie the lessons of historical soldiering to everyday leadership, discipline, and perseverance. Whether on the battlefield, in the boardroom, or at home, the attributes echoed in Wavell’s writings—resilience, boldness, authenticity, mastery of logistics, emotional control, and understanding of human nature—remain essential for success. As Jocko closes, it is bold, disciplined, and proactive action—both in war and in life—that allows one to ‘get after it’ and make one’s own luck.

Transcript

[A]

This is Jocko podcast number 524 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

[B]

Good evening.

[A]

Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier. He suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm. The infantryman has to use initiative and intelligence in almost every step he moves, every action he takes on the battlefield. We ought, therefore, to put our men of best intelligence and endurance into the infantry. And that right there is a quote from Field Marshal Archibald Wavelength. He's an earl. And the article was in the London Times in 1945. The article is titled In Praise of Infantry. And Archibald Wavell was the son of a major general, a major general in the British army that fought in the second Boer War, commanded Johannesburg after its capture. Wavell went, then went to the Royal Military College in Sandhurst. He was commissioned in 1901 as a second lieutenant in the Black Black Watch. He himself fought in the Boer War, so I guess he was working for his dad at some point. Then he was off to India. He fought in the Bazaar Valley Campaign, which was a punitive expedition against a tribe on the Northwest frontier. And punitive expeditions don't. Not quite politically correct evolutions. They're not considered very politically correct evolutions. It is what it sounds like. It's like a punitive, like someone in some tribe does something to, let's say, the colonialists, and then they go and just punish that group so they could be pretty devastating. He then went to staff college, spent a year as a military observer with the Russian army, working as a staff officer. When World War I began, wounded at Second Battle of E. Praise, lost his left eye. Awarded the Military Cross, but stayed in, worked as a staff officer. 34 years old, became a general, one of the youngest generals in the British army, part of the Egyptian Expeditionary Force, until the war was over. And then between wars, he kind of continued with his military career. 1937, he was General officer commanding of British forces in Palestine and Transjordan. Fought against the insurgents there. Continued various assignments in the Middle east and Greece and the Balkans. And then When World War II kicked off, he once again went through a bunch of different assignments. Started in the Middle east, went to Africa, fighting in Somaliland, Eritrea, Mogadishu, Libya. Eventually was there when they withdrew troops from Somalia from Somaliland and was part of that push. One of the leaders in the push into Greece and Crete in 1941, which didn't work out well. Fought early battles against Rommel in 1941, which also didn't work out well. Assigned as a commander in chief of India and was responsible for the defense of Southeast Asia from Japan and also the defense of Burma. Was preparing for long range operations behind Japanese lines when the war ended. He stayed in India until 1947, returned to England, served as Lord Lieutenant of the county of London and thankfully he wrote about military campaigns, wrote about military history and wrote about military leadership. And fortunately for us, in 1953 they put together a little compilation of his works. And this little book is called Soldiers and Soldiering. And we're going to take a look at some of the lessons he got from this pretty long and varied military career with some wins and losses, by the way. So let's get into it. Field Marshal Earl. He's an earl.

[B]

What's an earl?

[A]

I thought his first name was Earl when I first started reading about him. Yeah, but that's his title.

[B]

Yeah. What, what, do you know what that is?

[A]

There's a bunch of different titles in the British royalty cast system and this is one of them. You know, it's like Lord Knight. Yeah, Knight is, would be supported, I think to Earl. But Earl is one of the titles that you can get.

[B]

Isn't there like Count?

[A]

Yeah, like this is in the count genre.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

I'm married to a Brit. I didn't have time to research it with her because plus she gets really hyped up when she starts talking about, you know, British activities, royalty activities. So this. But it, but this is a book. It's one of those books where you read it and you go, dang, that's a good way of thinking about it. Oh, he thinks that too. Or oh, that's an angle I didn't think of. So let's get into it. Fast forward a little. I'm not proposing to deliver to you an apologia for generals, but to explain the qualities necessary for a general and the conditions which he has to exercise his calling. So he's just talking about what are the qualities that it takes to make a good general. And he read a bunch of. He says, I read a bunch of expositions from various writers about the virtues, military or otherwise, that are know, considered to be required. And he ends up landing on Socrates. And Socrates said the general must know how to get his men their rations and every other kind of stores Needed for war. That's the opener opening thing. You need to be able to feed your people. He must have imagination to originate plans, practical sense and energy to carry them through. This is an interesting topic, this energy thing. Energy, energy, you know, Ran all right.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. She says.

[A]

She says energy quite a bit. And she'll say it multiple times, like I just did. Energy, energy. He must be observant, untiring, shrewd. And this is where we get into some. He's going to rattle off some dichotomies here. Kindly and cruel, simple and crafty, a watchman and a robber, lavish and. And miserly. Isn't this like. This is the literal dichotomies of leadership right here. Generous and stingy, rash and conservative. So he. This is. This is Socrates rattling off dichotomies that a leader has to be. All these and many other qualities, natural and acquired, he must have. He should also, as a matter of course, know his tactics, for a disorderly mob is no more an army than a heap of building materials as a house. Facts. He goes on a little bit here. But even this definition of Socrates does not, to my mind, emphasize sufficiently what I hold to be the first essential of a general the quality of robustness, the ability to stand the shocks of war. So this is, for him is the number one quality, and this is man. When you look back at life, your life and people around you, and you think about how well did they stand the shocks of life or war, it's pretty telling. Probably this factor did not apply as much in Socrates times. People did not then suffer from what is now elegantly known as the jitters. Yeah, you're right. Because in Socrates times they weren't sitting in a trench waiting to die for months on end from overhead fire, indirect fire. I can perhaps best explain what I mean by Ross, but by robustness, by a physical illustration. I remember long ago when I was a very young officer being told by a mountain gunner friend that whenever in the old days a new design of a mountain gun was submitted to the Artillery Committee, that august body had taken it to the top of a tower some hundred feet high and then dropped it to the ground. If it was still capable of functioning, it was given further trial. If not, it was rejected as flimsy. The committee reasoned that mules and mountain guns might easily fall down the hillside and must be made capable of surviving so trivial a misadventure. On similar grounds, rifles and automatic weapons submitted to the Small Arms Committee, I believe are buried in mud for 48 hours or so before being tested for their rapid firing capabilities. The necessity for such a test was very aptly illustrated in the late war when the original Canadian contingent arrived in France armed with the Ross rifle away weapon, which had shown its superior qualities in target shooting at the Bisley Ranges. In peace, in the mud of the trenches, it was found to jam after a very few rounds. And after a short experience of the weapon under active service conditions, the Canadian soldier refused to have anything to do with it and insisted on being armed with the British rifle. So you're gonna use something in combat, you need to test it, put it in mud, shoot it. And I got to see a bunch of these tests happen with some of the various weapons. We have to talk to Cappy army through all that stuff. But that's what they do. They take military weapons and there's certain tests that you have to put them through. And one of them is like burying them in mud, freezing them, put them in water, pulling them back out, letting them rust, see how much rust they can take. You know, just all these things. How many rounds can they shoot without jamming? They do all these kind of things because they got to be robust. And what he's saying, it's the same thing for a general going to the book. Now, the mind of the general in war is buried not merely for 48 hours, but for days and weeks in the mud and sand of unreliable information and uncertain factors. And may at any time receive from an unsuspected move of the enemy an unforeseen accident or a treacherous turn in the weather a bump equivalent to a drop of at least 100ft onto something hard. Delicate mechanisms is. Delicate mechanisms is of little use in war. And this applies to the mind of the commander as well to his body, to the spear of an army, as well as to the weapons and instruments with which it is equipped. All material of war, including the general, must have a certain solidity, a high margin over the normal breaking strain. It is often said that the British war material is unnecessarily solid. And the same possibly, possibly is apt to be true of their generals. But we are certainly right to leave a good margin. So I, you know, it's one of those questions. Where does that come from? Where do you get that solidity as a human being? Does it come from your upbringing? Is it something that you're born with? Is a little bit of both? Are you, you know, a nine year old that's in wrestling practice, gutting it out every single day and you just get tougher. Are you home alone A lot. And you got to figure out how to fend for yourself. Like, what's going on in your childhood? Or is it just like, oh, this is just who you are? And you know, again, this is one of those things that who knows? Maybe we'll never know. But basic SEAL training, there'll be a guy that grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth, and he'll make it through. Had a very nice little easy life, made it through. And some other guy that grew up in the ghetto would or it out on the farm or in some really rugged environment and quit and the same and both. Some guys that are rich quit, or some guys that grew up on the silver spoon quit. Some guys that grew up really tough make it so you just don't know what's gonna happen. So where does it come from? We don't know, but I can tell you, we can find out who's got it. We might not know where it comes from, but we can find out who's got is sometimes argued whether war is art or science. I noted that in the invitation to me to deliver these lectures. I was to choose some branch of the science of war. Perhaps I'd been lecturing at a rival university. It might have been termed the art of War. I know no. I know of no branch of art or science, however, in which rivals are at liberty to throw stones at the artist or scientists to steal his tools and destroy his materials while he is working always against time on his picture or statue or experiment. So there you go. Is it art or science? Well, I never seen anybody trying to murder the scientist or the artist while they're working on their experiment or working on their piece of art. So he's like, dude, this is a totally different thing. Under such conditions, how many of the great masterpieces of art or discoveries of science would have been produced? No, the civil comparison to war must be that of a game, a very rough and dirty game for which a robust body and mind are essential. The general is dealing with men's lives and must have a certain mental robustness to stand the strain of this responsibility. How great that strain is, you may judge by the sudden deaths of many of the commanders of the late war. When you read military history, take note of the failures due to lack of this quality of robustness. I say, I propose to say a few words about the physical attributes of a general. Courage, health and youth. Personal appearance we need not worry about. An imposing presence can be a most useful asset. But good generals, as the story of good race racehorses run in all shapes, yeah, you can look like anything. Physical courage is not so essential a factor in reaching high rank as it was in the old days of close range fighting. But it's still. Is of very considerable importance today in determining the degree of risk a commander will take to see for himself what is going on. And in mechanized warfare, we may see. We may again see the general leading his troops almost in the front of the fighting or possibly reconnoitering and commanding from the air. So he's saying, look, physically, sure, it's good to have that big physical presence, but it's not. Not a necessity. And then courage, good to have. Sure, but it's different now that you're not like charging across the battlefield with a sword. An example of the extent to which generals came under fire in the old days. You may like to know that at Marble's assault on Schellenberg during the Blehem Blenheim campaign, which is like the 1700s, six lieutenant generals were killed and five wounded in the Allied army, while the 1500 British casualties at the action included four major generals and 28 brigadiers or lieutenant colonels. So that's some serious sacrifice. From. From the head shed there. There's a good story told about. Of one of Napoleon's marshals, Lafibre, the gallant old soldier who became Duke of Danzig. A civilian friend was once envying him at his house and the decorations and other awards he had. At last the old marshal got tired of it and said to well, if you want all these things, come out to my garden and let me have 10 shots at you at 40 paces. If you survive, I'll hand over to you my house and everything in it. His friend perhaps naturally objected. All right, said the old man, the old marshal, but remember that I had several hundred shots fire at me at that range before I got all these things. Yeah. Courage, physical and moral. A general undoubtedly must have Voltaire praises in Marlboro. That calm courage in the midst of tumult, that serenity of soul in danger, which is the greatest gift, nature of nature for command. So staying calm, staying calm. The greatest gift you can have is to be able to stay calm. Isn't that wild? It's wild to think that people are going to be in a senior leadership position and still have to contend with keeping their emotions under control. It's. It's kind of wild for me to think about that.

[B]

Yeah. How much of that do you think is. I guess there's no way of knowing, but how much. How much of that do you think Is like, them or people thinking that it's, like, cool.

[A]

Yeah, to. We're going to get to that. There is a section there where he talks about, like, what people think of it, and certainly it can be seen as a. I mean, it can be seen as a tool that you could use.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But usually it's a tool for the week, you know, you mess something up. Like, if I've got. If I've got to, like, blow my. Lose my temper. And I will say, like, calculated loss of temperature, you know, is obviously. Do I recommend it? No. Have I had to use that? Yes. Yeah, probably three times.

[B]

Yeah. That's.

[A]

You know, if I include my kids, maybe like. Yeah, maybe like five times. If I include, like, my kids where I had to be like, oh, yeah, they. They don't think this is a big deal and you have to, like, escalate. Yeah, man. I wouldn't maybe not quite call it, like, losing my temper, but at least escalate where they feel like some emotion. Right?

[B]

Yeah, it's the.

[A]

But that's like five times in the last, like. I don't know. How old am I? 54. Yeah, this is. I don't. I. I mean, this is a long, long time, bro.

[B]

Yeah. And that's kind of how it has to be otherwise, because it loses its effectiveness pretty quick. It's kind of almost like irony in a way where.

[A]

Well, when.

[B]

When you do it, it's kind of like it can be effective. You do it again, and it's like 50% as effective. You do it again, 10% effective, you keep doing it. Zero.

[A]

Yeah, well, yes, I agree with you, but also. And I agree with what you're saying, but also what you're not saying is that there's also a different effect that can happen because if you come and present me with something and I yell at you, are you going to present me with something again? You're not. So eventually you just. You just are not going to present anything. You're not going to take any initiative. You're just going to be a robot that's just trying to stay out of trouble. So it has an effect. Maybe the first time you're right. Like, it has an effect like, oh, dang, Jocko's serious about this. I better get that. I better make that happen. But then I do it again. And I do it again, then I do it again. Not only is the effect diminished, it's diminishing to have the impact that I wanted, but it's having a different impact and the impact that it's having is just like. You're not looking to, like, even engage anyway.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So being calm. And by the way, when I said he talks about this in a little bit, this kind of contradicts that because he. He talks a little bit more positively than I do. Well, a lot more positively than I do. You know, I don't think losing your temper is good. I think it's weak. Back to the book here. A later military writer who had no great admiration for Joffre was compelled to admit that his stolid, calm and obstinate determination in the darkest days of the retreat had an influence which offset many of the grave strategical blunders which he committed. That's a. You ever seen somebody do something, like, stupid, but then they act cool and they kind of get away with it?

[B]

Yeah. What do you mean? Like, they play it off cool?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they play it off.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, you even see someone, you know, like, fall down and, like, roll out of it and look cool. Like, in mma, people do that, mma. Like, a guy, like, throw a kick and, like, slip and fall and then, like, roll out of it and, like, get his fists up again. You're like, did he mean to do that? Like, there's a little party that's like, wait, was that supposed to happen? So if you remain calm and you don't freak out even when you make a mistake, you're like, yeah, yep. You know what? Go ahead and pull back, and we'll start moving in this direction as opposed to, like, I don't know what's going on, you know? Health in a general is, of course, most important. Oh, health is most important, but it is a relative quality. Only we would, all of us, I imagine, sooner have Napoleon sick on our side than many of his opponents whole. That makes sense. A great spirit can rule in a frail body, as Wolf and others have shown us. Marlborough, during his great campaigns would have been plowed by most modern medical boards. Next comes the vexed question of age, and he goes through talking about some of these people. Caesar and Cromwell began their serious soldiering when they were well over the age of 40. Marlboro was 61 at the time of his most admired maneuver. Turin's last campaign at the age of 63, is said to be his boldest and best. Moltke, the most competent of the moderns, made his name at the age of 66. Bro, I got. I got room. I got room. And confirmed his reputation at 70. And by. This is the old days, bro. These guys weren't like. Like, on the path. These guys weren't on the good nutrition, but. But, you know, they probably weren't eating a bunch of processed junk either. Right. And plus they were living out in the field at least a little bit. Roberts was 67 when he went out to South Africa after our first disastrous defeat and restored the situation by surrounding the Boer army at Perdeberg and capturing Bloemfontein. And pretoria. Folk at 67, still possessed energy and vitality and great originality. So he's basically rattling off a bunch of people that got it done when they were in their 60s and even 70s.

[B]

When you think about that, that's. If you think about it for a second, it actually doesn't come as that big of a surprise because. Okay, remember when you were like, let's say 20, 20, 21. Right. This idea of you being 40, we'll say if you really rewind your mind and think of what was I thinking at that time? The. The age of 40 is completely over the hill. Completely.

[A]

You think so?

[B]

That's what I felt when I was like 19, 20 years old. I thought, 40 is like, yeah. Like, I really pray that I have done everything that I set out to. Because that 40 year, you might as well.

[A]

Game over. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. That's. Grandparents age. You're not doing nothing, you know, and even when you see, like, older people, I don't know, to me, it was like this. It seemed like their life is kind of like an over the hill life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, like they're not having fun out there. They're not exploring new things, you know, kind of thing. But then when you get to 40, you're kind of like, oh, this is kind of where it mature life begins. Like the real stuff. The other stuff was more like elementary.

[A]

School kind of a thing where you're just learning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, the thing that I always think back to is that interview with Kasparov, the chess player, when Rogan asked him if he could beat or how he would do against Magnus Carlson. And he said. He said he would lose. And he gave two reasons. The first reason was because Magnus Carlsen got to start knowing all these other chess moves that had happened in the last 50 years. You get those delivered to you. Right. It's like jiu jitsu. Like, if you went back to In. If you went back with a buggy choke.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To 1990, you'd be tapping a lot of people out. A lot of people. But right now, you wouldn't tap that many people out with a buggy joke or whatever. Umapla, you pick whatever modern technique. Look what. Look what Dean list did in ADCC 2003. You know, just like, oh, well, I'm just going to foot lock a bunch of people, they don't know heel hook them. They don't know what's happening. So. But. But today you just get that heel hook. You know, you get that foot lock. You get that 50, 50. You get. You get all that stuff. Yeah, you just get it given to you.

[B]

And there's a. Yeah, that. Yeah, and that. There's a lot of that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, even like the smallest D and Jiu Jitsu is a good example. But yeah, because there's an element of trial and error, you know, that. That happens throughout any kind of learning process or whatever. But, like, even think of, like the arm bar, right? Like, let's say you get enough. Look at an arm bar back in. Oh, yeah. You really want to go back. Go, you know, 19. When was it? You know, back in the heliogracie days.

[A]

Oh, yeah. You watching? Back to like the 30s.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then Trey, do an arm bar like that. But you'll never get the armbar because. Just. Because all the little details of how to escape the arm bar, real fundamental now, you know, everybody kind of knows and all this, and it's like. But, yeah, there was no. No knowledge of that. Now it's like, no, no, don't do it that way because you can just do this and boom, you have the knowledge right there, you know, so it kind of. It does make sense.

[A]

Yeah. So Magnus Carlsen was just given all that platform he was allowed to operate on, was automatically elevated. The same thing with skateboarding. Like, everyone can do a kickflip now. It's just like a joke. But back in the day, if you could do a kick like professionals could do a kickflip, amateurs could not.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it. It didn't last for long, like, pretty once it got out there, but, man.

[B]

Can you do a kickflip?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right now.

[A]

I mean, it might take me some. Some cracks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Do you know. Do you know an ollie is.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Hell yeah.

[A]

I mean, there were like, it. When. When Tony Alva first, like, got 4 inches of air out of a pool, it was like, bro, you know, like this. The whole world was. Well, that's the limitations. You know what? Well, I guess this professional is going to be able to go 4 inches out of a pool. You know, now guys go like, freaking. However. And Rodney. But Rodney Mullen took the ollie and started doing on the Ground and then started flipping the board on all this other crazy stuff but his. But now people just get to see that it's possible. And you learn the technique. Like, there is a specific technique.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of where you put your foot when you do a kick flip. You got to put your. You know, I'm a goofy foot. My foot goes out a little bit further to the right in the front of the board. And then, you know, that's the way you do it. And if you just had to learn that by your own.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It would take forever. So you so being able to say, oh, here's the move. Here's how you do it. Now listen. And this is what I would say about Jiu jitsu is there's 10 things that you have to do. Let's say, theoretically, there's 10 things you have to do to make a move work. I can teach you five of them, and the other five, I can teach you where to put your arms, where to hold your grip. I can tell you where to put your weight, but you're gonna have to feel it as well. And then the other five things, you're gonna have to figure out for yourself, because it can be a little bit different for you. There's some things you ever. You ever. When you're teaching something in Jiu jitsu and you. You do it to someone, but you have to kind of do it to everyone in the class because there's no possible way they can visually see what you're doing. So how are you going to teach that? Like, you can. You can let them feel it as well, but then they've got to try it, and then they got to do it back to you, and they got to be like, hey, is this right? You go, well, not really. Put it a little bit more towards the shoulder. Okay, yeah, that's a little bit better. And sometimes it's, like, really hard to transfer the knowledge. And you notice there's some things in. In the world that when you do it, you. You have to just. You have to get it right one time kind of on your own. I was recently toe in surfing. You ever heard of this before?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

So I'd never done it before, and I'd never. I'd never done wakeboarding either, which is very similar. But, like, people are talking to me, telling me, like, how to do it, and they're giving me clear instructions. But, like, each time I was doing so I was making little mistakes, and I had to feel like, oh, what was that mistake? What was that mistake? What was that Mistake. And eventually I got it. And then once you get it, you're like, okay, I know how to do this. Now. It's sort of like dropping into a half pipe on skateboarding or standing up. When you're, like, on a surfboard, like, the first time you do it, you're gonna fall, like, four or five, seven, 80 times. Seven, 60 times. Once you stand up once, though, it's like you can almost immediately stand up again.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So there's some things that you have to do. You have to. You have to learn for yourself. But if someone tells you, okay, when you stand up on your surfboard, here's where you can put your hands. You know, here's the weight, here's when you're going to do it. Like, when you feel the board start to pick up speed on its own, put your hands here, you know, push yourself up, bring your feet up like they can. And then we can do that a couple times on the beach. Whereas if I just said, hey, take this board, go out there and stand up on a wave, it would take you a month to even figure out how to catch the wave.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you have to learn the moves from somebody.

[B]

It's crazy how there's certain. Like, even riding a bike, for example, like, riding a bike is one of those ones where you can never study your way into riding a bike. You gotta do it. Yeah.

[A]

Yes. But when things are more technical, you have to get shown how to do the physical aspects of the movement. And then, you know, the. The rote. There's like a certain number of rote memorization of physical movement you can do. And then once you have that, then you have to try it and once again. And we. We see this all the time. You used to see this when, you know, back in pre UFC days. Oh, I'm gonna throw the. The whatever combination I learned in Taekwondo at you, and you're gonna. It's gonna cause this reaction. But then when we fight for real, bro, you don't react at all like the way the instructor said. So now we have a totally different situation. So you have to learn the physical way to do it, but then you have to go and spar. And that's what's so good about Jiu jitsu, is you can take that, you can learn the moves, and then you can go and spar. You know, what we call rolling. And you can do that at 100% effort, because you can resist me 100%. And if I do the move correctly, I can get you still. So that's what that's the advantage that Magnus Carlson has. He got all this knowledge. So that was one thing that Kasparov said. The other thing Kasparov said was like, oh, plus, I'm older now. My mind doesn't work as well as it used to. And I was like, no, because I thought, dude, I'll kick. You know, you would think. You've been doing this for longer. You'll win. You know, it's kind of like jiu jitsu. Well, this guy's a black belt. He's been training for 30 years. This guy is a brown belt. He's been training for nine years. But if that brown belt is a badass and he's, like, fully in the game, yeah. Guess what? It's a problem. Do you.

[B]

Because it feels like when you get older, your sense of competition kind of fades as well. Like, you're less competitive. It seems like, okay, well, maybe that's you. Yeah, yeah, it totally is me. I thought it was everybody. It feels like. But it feels like there's a. There's a certain logic to it, too. Not. Not necessarily it. Like. Sure, it's probably physiological, you know, I would imagine, but it feels like it's logical as well, you know, how, like, as you grow up, your value systems change, you know?

[A]

Yeah. I was going to say, maybe you're competing in a different genre. You're competing in a different game. Like, right now, you're more competing in trying to, you know, be a good dad, you know? Again, are you competing against, like, your neighbor? Like, oh, wait, he got his kids those presents? I'm. No, no, but I'm saying you're. You're trying to, you know, you're. You're focused on performance. Performance is performance of your duties as a dad, as a husband, as a business partner.

[B]

Right. Yeah, but. And that's. I think that actually, that is the sense of competition that I'm talking about competing with other people. So, you know how, like, you know, let's say the fundamental. Like, when you're a little kid, right? Especially boys, right? Everything's like a little, like a race or this or that or, you know, so you can throw this rock the farthest, you know, that. You know, that sense of company. And then as you get older, like, let's say we're playing chess, right? For example, me and you, when I'm young and you beat me, I'm gonna be like, I can't wait to, like, I don't know, practice and get you back. Right? Because that sense of come when I'm get when I get older, I have so many other things that are more important than me beating you in chess. You see what I'm saying? And they're not competitive things. They're things I just need to focus my mind on.

[A]

Yeah. There's probably just a reprioritization.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You recognize like, oh, if someone catches you in jiu jitsu right now, as a. How old are you? 48. 48. As a 48 year old dude with like a wife and kids and a job, like, it's gonna bother you less than when you were a bounce, a single bouncer at the Bitter End. And you're.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're proud of some different things back then. Yeah, that makes sense.

[B]

Yes. But.

[A]

Well, that's what we have to contend with. So I, I heard some other horrible fact that when you look at like people that do great either creative or scientific efforts in their lives, it all happens when they're like 25, 28, 30. The. Even like the big scientists, like, they make their big discoveries when they're in that age group. And there's a whole bunch of reasons for that. Right. They're probably is a whole bunch of reasons for that. I mean, then again, we're. We're talking about guys right now that, that did their best work at 63 and 67 and 70 and 66. So it can happen because I'm sure, like you like, what are the chances that someone that's 26 is in a place in their life where they can fully focus their efforts on their art, around their science? Right. They're sleeping in the lab. They don't got no one to go home to. They. They got no bills to pay, you know, so of course they got. But, but then that person, if they, if they made it through those years and now they're 50 or 43, they got a mortgage. I mean, even back in the day, they're like trying to provide for their family. Like, they can't sit around and freaking be working on their song like that ain't happening. Yeah. So. But, but that being said, still going back to Kasparov, that mind is humming at probably 30, and that's when they're like, the good ideas come out. Now, he goes on to say this book. It is impossible really to give exact values to the fire and boldness of youth as against the judgment and experience of riper years. If the mature mind still has the capacity to. To conceive and absorb new ideas, to withstand unexpected shocks, and to put into execution bodies bold and unorthodox. Designs its superior knowledge and judgment will give advantage over the youth. So that's, you know, those are all things to keep in mind. How often does someone that's older not have the ability to absorb new ideas? Right. How. How much more difficult is it for them to absorb unexpected shocks? You know, one thing that's, you know, when I look back and people like, oh, how would you do in buds now going through school training, and I'm always like, no factor, right? Because, you know, I'm just, I'm just holding the line.

[B]

Y.

[A]

But what, What I actually think about was like, oh, man, can I.

[B]

What.

[A]

How painful would it be to be in like, Navy boot camp right now to have like, oh, it. Hey, you know, you have to do this at this time today, and then after that you have to do this, and then after that you have to do this. You know, just, just. That would just be a shock to the liberty that I have constructed in my life. And then the. How often is someone that's a little bit older willing to take risks? Like when you're young again, going back to someone that has no mortgage. No, you know, no mortgage, no kids, no. No spouse, they can roll the dice all day with their money because they got nothing to lose.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when you got more to lose, even, and let's say like a military person, and you're putting on the line your reputation and your career, or you're a politician, you got your reputation, your career, like that can be very difficult. So. But if you can do that, if you can keep an open mind, you can have new ideas, then you can, then you can use your. Your knowledge to have an advantage over youth. And it says at the same time, there is, There is no doubt that a good young general will usually beat a good old one. And the recent lowering of age of our generals is undoubtedly a step in the right direction, even if it may sometimes lose us prematurely a good commander. So there you go. I think 1. My whole comment about the whole age thing, it's kind of like when people would say, hey, how much does your ruck Way doesn't matter. This is what I'm carrying. So how old are you? Doesn't matter because this is what we're doing. Fast forward. I don't, I don't think I need to expedite for long on the moral qualities of a lever of a leader. No amount of study or learning will make a man a leader unless he has the natural qualities of one. The qualities of a leader are well known to you and I. And I shall deal with them further in my second lecture. So we'll get there. Here I will mention only the barest essentials. So it's interesting, you know, he says that no amount of studying or learning will make a man a leader unless he has natural qualities. I. Here's what I've always said about that. If you. There are leadership. Leadership is a skill and you can certainly get better at it. Will you? If you're going for the NBA and you're only 5 foot 8, is any amount of practice going to make you 6 foot 4? No. If you're a leader and you have a certain God given ability with speech, you can get better at it, but you're not. You may not have the ability to be Martin Luther King or John F. Kennedy when you speak. It just that's, that's the way it is.

[B]

So.

[A]

But can you get better? Yes, you can certainly get better. And there's so many little qualities that a leader is supposed to have or should have and you can make all of them a little bit better. And so if you make all them a little bit better, you can improve as a leader. So you may not have the gift of being 6 foot 4 to be in the NBA, but you can be still be Steph Curry. What's Steph Curry? Six one.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Okay, whatever he is. Or Mugsy Bogue Bogues, who's 5 3, I think. And he played in the NBA. Yeah, so. But he did it through a different approach and massive skills. So you can become a leader by you by utilizing and studying and learning the skills of leadership. As long as you have the most important one, which is humility going on. He says he's going to talk about the barest essentials he must have characterized, which simply means he knows what he wants and has the courage and determination to get it. He should have a genuine interest in and a real knowledge of the raw material of his trade. And most vital of all, he must have what we call the fighting spirit, the will to win. You all know and recognize it in sport. The man who plays his best when things are going badly, who has the power to come back at you when apparently beaten, and who refuses to acknowledge defeat. There is one other moral quality I would stress as the mark of a really great commander as distinguished from the ordinary general. He must have a spirit of adventure, a touch of the gambler in him. As Napoleon said, if the art of war consisted merely in not taking risks, glory would be at the mercy of very mediocre talent. Napoleon all always asked if a general was lucky. What he really meant was, is he bold? A bold general may be lucky, but no general may be lucky unless he is bold. The general who allows himself to be bound and hampered by regulations is unlikely to win in battle. So again, you know, there it is. We think we're looking for that disciplined, rigid individual that's going to follow all the rules, but we literally can't be bound or hampered by rules and regulations. And I really like the idea of, you know, are you lucky? You're only going to be lucky if you're bold. And that's kind of the SAS saying. Fortune favors the bold. Who dares, wins. You know, those are kind of the, some of the Brit sayings. So far we have dealt with the general's physical and moral makeup. Now for his mental qualities, the most important is what the French call practicable, what we call common sense. I was going to try a French accent and I voted against it.

[B]

I understand.

[A]

My daughter's spirit speak Spanish with no Spanish accent because, you know, in Southern California you take Spanish in high school, but they speak Spanish and they, they, they can do they, they have a good vocabulary and can communicate in the proper conjugates and whatnot, but they just do it with no Spanish accent. They just do it as pure gringos. And it's pretty funny to listen to what we call common sense. Knowledge of what is and what is not possible. It must be based on a really sound knowledge of the mechanism of war, I. E. Topography, movement and supply man in common sense. You know, the old thing, common sense is not too common. Right? And isn't it weird? I've, I've, I've earned a lot of, I've earned a lot of head nods, you know, like we agree by just saying some pretty common sense dumb stuff. You know, in my days, like, maybe we should just do this. Oh yeah, that's a good point. You know what I mean? We get Operation Complication going on and everyone's getting nuts. Like, we could probably just do this. These are the real foundations of military knowledge. Not strategy and tactics as most people think it is. The lack of this knowledge of the principles and practice of the military movement and administration. The logistics of war, some people call it. Yes, that's what we call it there, Earl. Which puts what we call amateur strategists wrong. Not the principles of strategy themselves, which can be apprehended in a very short time by any reasonable intelligence. So it's like, oh, the little war fighting stuff, the little tactics of like, killing each other. That's not. That's not that hard. That's what he's saying. But the administration, the logistics, that's the hard part. And that's what he's talking about. What is possible. That's a little common sense. Activity says, unfortunately, most military books, strategy and tactics are emphasized at the expense of the administrative factors. So it's the same thing with business, too. Like the logistics of business. You can do good on the front end. Right. Making a good product, designing a good product, marketing a good product. But logistics wins wars. And logistics is what keeps you in the game in business as well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you gotta be. You gotta be professional.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To make that stuff happen.

[B]

Kind of pretty much any operation. So for whatever reason, I thought of concerts, you know, like. Or like a music festival. Right. You always say, like, oh, it's a good festival. But then you. When you think of a festival or a concert, we'll say with poor logistics. Then you got bathroom issues, you got trash issues, you got all. You know, you have congestion issues.

[A]

You got Woodstock, 1999. Right. Yeah. All these people, like, it went crazy. Did you ever see a documentary called Fyre Festival?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The guy had like a party or something, like a big concert party on some island somewhere. And they did not have good logistics. Everything went to shit.

[B]

Yeah, I thought. I thought that was like the. Is that the scam one?

[A]

I think it may have been viewed as a scam once it was over because the way everything logistically fell apart, you know, like, we don't. Bands show up to play and there's nowhere for them to plug in their equipment.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We. You flew us out here. We want our money. And then, you know, so it probably. I don't think. Well, I'd have to re. Watch it. I don't know if it was a intended scam, but I think it ended up being just such a logistical, logistical failure. It's exactly what we're talking about. You're right. Like, such a logistical failure that it'd be like if you paid whatever, 500 to go to this festival and then you got there and there was no food, no water, and nowhere to go to the bathroom.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You would think that that was a scam because you think this guy took my money and didn't get, you know, deliver any product. So that seems like a scam. I think he just logistically didn't know how to do it. Right.

[B]

And. And that does make sense, especially like, you know, as far as you talking about this, that element from the Book where you don't think of that on the front end, you know, you don't think about like, oh, I can't wait to go to this freaking Guns and Roses concert. Because of the bathroom.

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

Spaces, you know, like, there's so many bathrooms there. It's so legit. Like you don't think about that part of it, even though that part of it is probably more foundational to the whole experience.

[A]

Yeah, I just saw Guns and Roses. I. I'm trying to going to coordinate with Jack Osborne and come and debrief the Black Sabbath last concert. You know, obviously with his dad, his dad dying a couple weeks after that, we haven't really gotten around to it. But logistically it was incredible the way they pulled it off. But you mentioned Guns and Roses. And Guns and Roses, dude, they crushed. And Guns and Roses played deep cuts. They played deep Black Sabbath cuts. Because the way they put that whole show together, they had a bunch of different bands and every band played like one, two or three of their own songs and one, two or three of Black Sabbath songs with very. And then there was super groups that came out. So it was awesome. But Guns, I. Look, I try not to get engaged in comments right. About stuff, but I saw some people saying some negative things about Guns N Roses and man, they rocked and they played deep cuts and good form. Sorry, I just went in a little logistical.

[B]

Totally understand aspect there. Yeah, but. But it's a lot when you go through the experience of whatever those logistics, when they're handled properly versus improperly are such a big deal.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

And so I went to this place, did the video. No, no. Was it the mustard?

[A]

The mustard. So at the muster, though, logistically, it is such a. We, we focus so much on logistics for this very reason.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because if it takes. If you show up to the muster, which is an event we have at our song, if you show up to the muster and it takes you, you know, an hour to check in and register, you're like, dude, what is. Like, this is. Why am I standing in line? Yeah, we at the muster, it takes. We. We get it done. Like you will register in 30 seconds. Like everything is streamlined. Everything is. Because we realized that we're being judged. It's like you're saying you judge stuff on logistics. The muster is judged, at least at some level on the logistics of the operation. Because if we at Echelon Front, as a leadership consultancy can't run a squared away event, then why. Why would you talk to us? Why would you listen to us? You Wouldn't. So logistics are key. Proceed. Sorry.

[B]

Yeah, they. Because again, when you go through the overall experience, again, so it's not the since logistics, not the front running, like element that you kind of pay attention to. You don't think about it, but when you actually go through it, you'd be surprised. Okay, so I was at this place doing a video, and it was a location. Right. And it was a business where. Okay, it was a gym. It wasn't Victory. It was a different gym.

[A]

Victory is almost open.

[B]

I've never been to this gym before. So I come and, you know, you go on the map or whatever and I go to the gym and there's no parking lot for this gym at all. It's a big, kind of a big gym too. There's no parking lot. You just park on the street, surrounding streets. And I remember thinking, I would never join this gym now just because of the parking. Like to, to go to the gym and then to contend with parking, it's like, bro, that takes away about 90% of the gym experience right there. For me, that's how I was feeling in the moment. See what I'm saying? But you never really think about that. See what I'm saying?

[A]

Well, you obviously thought about it.

[B]

Oh, yeah. When you're in the moment. But before that, you know, you're thinking about, oh, how, you know, what kind of weight set does this gym have? What's even all the way down to, like, what does the lighting look like, how many mirrors, you know, like all these details about the gym, but not the logistical part of it.

[A]

Yep. Logistics wins wars. And you got to know them. Fast forward a little bit. In conclusion, I wonder if you realize what a very complicated business this modern soldiering is. A commander today has to learn to handle air forces, armored mechanical vehicles, anti aircraft artillery. He has to consider the use of gas and smoke offensively and defensively, to know enough of wireless to make proper use of it for communication, to understand something, of the operation art of camouflage, of the business of propaganda, to keep himself up to date in their developments of military engineering. All of this in addition to the more normal requirements of his trade on the battlefield. Of course, conditions are completely different in the conditions of the late war. No battalion commander launching his reserve company had anything like such a clear picture of the situation as any of the these, while the commander in chief was not on the battlefield at all, but sitting in an office many miles back or recklessly pacing the garden of a chateau, waiting for news that seemed to never come. And when it Came was usually misleading. So you're gonna be making decisions, you're not gonna be there, you know, And I kind of skipped over a part where he was talking about how previous commanders in different wars, whether it was Marlboro, Napoleon, or Wellington, they would move to places where they could kind of watch things unfold. And that. That is very important for your, you know, for. To be. To lead. But these guys, they're like, back from the lines, and you can't get up there because of. Modern warfare is just different. I was talking to a wildland firefighter the other day, and she was saying that she was like. I think they called that she was in charge of a big fire that was happening. And as her firefighters were fighting the fire, she had to move across the valley to the other ridgeline where the fire wasn't, so she could observe what the fire was doing and then call them, because, you know, what can you see when you're fighting a forest fire? You can see, like, fire and trees. She had to move into a. Basically an elevated position where she could watch what was happening and give directions. So sometimes, you know, that's what you have to do. But in this case, in this modern warfare case, you. You get separated to a point where you actually can't visually see, and you're having to assemble misleading information to try and make decisions. And if you don't make any decisions, obviously that's going to be failure. So you got to do something, got to make something happen. So that's the way this modern warfare happens. As much as you want to get into the high ground and watch what's happening, like my friend Momo was doing, you don't get that opportunity. Fast forward a little bit. The commander with the imagination, the genius. This is a. Sorry, this is a part about military genius. The commander with the imagination, the genius, in fact, to use the new forces may have his name written among the great captains, but he will not win that title lightly or easily. Consider for a moment the qualifications he will require on the ground. He will have to have. He will have to handle forces moving at a speed and ranging at a distance far exceeding that of the most mobile cavalry of the past. A study of naval strategy and tactics, as well as those of cavalry will be essentially essential to him. It seems to me immaterial whether he is a soldier who has really studied the air or an airman who has really studied land forces. It is the combination of the two, never the action of one alone, that will bring success for a future war. You gotta understand Air and war. And this is a.

[B]

Is.

[A]

This reminds me of Jiu Jitsu. When you're. When you get. I would say it's mid to high. Blue belt level is when people start to use their arms and legs at the same time. Because sometimes, you know, you have to use them together. You have to be using. You have to be moving your arms, and you have to be moving your legs at the same time. But the human mind doesn't do that very well. And it's like. Have you ever played drums before? Yeah, like, yeah, I. I've. I've never really played them, but, like, I'll get on the kit sometimes and bang out a couple songs, Right. My right hand and right foot might as well be tied together, because they will not do something different in My left hand and left foot might as well be tied together, too, because they're going to do this. They're going to move together. That's just the way they are. And you can train yourself out of it. That's something I look forward to doing in a few years. I'm gonna. I'm gonna learn to do that. You know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna learn how to make my right foot and my right hand do something different than my left foot and my left hand do something different. But when people do Jiu Jitsu, they get that stage where they'll. You'll be like, hey, you need to do this. You know, you need to frame over here and push their hip this way with your hand. And then when they do that, they stop moving their feet, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then when you tell them, hey, man, you got to make that hook down there with your foot, and they'll be like, cool. But then they stop moving their upper body.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you have to use both.

[B]

There's a lot of things that. Because it kind of becomes this physical language. Right. I'll let all these. Even drums. Piano is another one where it's like, you're kind of playing on one side, and then, you know, you're kind of using both as, like. What's that thing when you're a little kid, you pat your head and grab your stomach or whatever. It's kind of that. Really. Yep, but for a different intention. So it's like. Yeah, it becomes. Because Sam Harris talks about this, where it's like two different parts of your brain.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[B]

So, like, one is like, if you translate a different language to English, word for word, you're not really kind of speaking the language. You got to just understand. Understand Just saying it. You know, this jiu jitsu scenario, you're like, okay, consciously, okay, I gotta put my hand here. I gotta put my foot here, or whatever. You're not speaking the language yet. After a while, your body just does it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You see what I'm saying? So it's like, yeah, two different things like that.

[A]

Continue on here. Add to this. So he says, you got to be able to do both air and land. Add to this and see, Add to this that the commander studies must have a background of solid common sense and a knowledge of human humanity on Hughes peculiarities and not those of machines. The whole practice of war warfare is ultimately based. So there you go, like, hey, we're talking about all these different weapons systems and air and land and sea, naval power and all this stuff. But it's ultimately, it's just humans. You got no humans. Fast forward a little bit. The section is called the General and his Troops. I now want you to consider the general in relation to his troops. I will begin with a few words about. About his staff. Where are the means by which he controls and directs his army? I'll give you two simple rules which every general should observe. First, never try to do his own staff work, and secondly, never to let his staff get between him and his troops. What a staff appreciates is that it should receive clear and definitive instructions and then be a left to work out the details without interference. What troops and subordinate commanders appreciate is that the general should be constantly in personal contact with them and should not see everything simply through the eyes of his staff. The less time a general spends in his office and the more with his troops, the better. So that is one thing that's a little bit of a curveball is he says, never try to do his own staff work. You know, my first, when I read that, I was like, oh, yeah, you can't. You don't have the time to be doing this staff stuff. I was thinking of it from a time management perspective, but he's talking about a micromanagement perspective, that if I'm doing your job for you, Echo, you're not doing your job. I'm focused on that. You're not like, it's just. It's. It's centralized command is what he's talking about. And then obviously getting out with the troops, that's what you need to do. As fast forward a little bit. As to a general's relations with his supporters, commanders, it happened. It is important to him to know their characteristics which must be held back and which urged on which can be trusted with an independent mission and which must be kept under his own eye. Some want very detailed and precise orders, Other others merely a general indication. There are many generals who are excellent executive commanders as long as they are controlled by a higher commander, but who get out of their depth at once and sometimes lose their nerve if given end independent command. Others are difficult subordinates but may be trusted on their own. It is important not to get these two sorts mixed. In other words, a higher commander must be a good judge of character. And we've seen this over and over and over again. Everyone's got their own little personalities. And decentralized command might mean, oh, echo. I can kind of let him do whatever he wants, Fred. I got to keep close control over him. We as leaders have to know which is which. Fast forward now. Now to come to the general's relations with the troops themselves. You will realize what a wide subject it is and how impossible to dogmatize about the outlook of the officer. The regimental officer differs naturally from that of the men. And different nationalities demand different treatment. Maison fonts, my children, says the Frenchman, and may speak of the glory of the fatherland. Men, says the Englishman on rare occasions when he feels called on to address his troops collectively. Comrades, says the Soviet Russian, the German commander of the future will perhaps cause a thrill of pride to run through the ranks with a cry of fellow Aryans. But whatever the nationality, whatever the condition, There remains the basic problem. What induces the man to risk his life bravely and what is the general's part in fostering his endurance? No man wants to die. What causes him to face death? Maybe hope of loot or glory. Discipline and tradition, Devotion to cause or country. Devotion to a man, glory or loot appeals to few these days. Nor indeed is much glory or loot to be had. Decorations and promotions count for something, but may cause much heart burning unless carefully distributed. Belief in a cause may count for much, Especially if fostered by mass propaganda. Yet there is truth in the following from a book on the late war. So here's a quote. A man does not flee because he is fighting an unrighteous cause. He does not attack because his cause is just. He flees because he is the weaker. He conquers because he is the stronger or because his leader has made him feel the stronger. It's weird when you break down stuff like that, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like why did he lose the fight? He was weaker. Why did he start backing away? He was being overpowered. That's what causes the troops to keep pushing, because they think they can win, they believe they can win. They believe they're stronger. I've always kept the idea that I'm not going to get into a fight that I'm not going to win and I'm not going to get into an argument that I'm not going to win, by the way. So if you hear me arguing with someone, which you hear very seldomly, but if you hear me contending with someone, someone, if you can put money on me because I know I'm gonna win, right. If you're arguing with me now, if we're having a discussion and I'm asking you earnest questions, I'm. I'm open minded. I may be right, I might be wrong. I might be have an idea of what the deal is or not what you know. But I not confirmed of it. But if you hear me, if you hear me saying no, no, we should not do it like that, you should put money on me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I know I'm right. How often have you heard me say I know I'm right?

[B]

I don't. I can't remember you saying that ever.

[A]

Yeah. So it's going to be very, very seldom.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you, you getting into in entanglements where you think you're going to lose is not a smart move. And I don't do it. Now here it goes. Continuing on with why are guys going to fight, right. But tradition and discipline anyway, so far as the British are concerned are the real root of the matter. I have not the time here to enter into any discussion on the subject of discipline. I will only remark that with the na. That with national armies as all armies, even the British will be in a future war and general education, discipline should be a different matter from the old traditional military discipline. It has changed greatly since I joined joined and is changing still. But whatever the system, it is the general's business to see justice done. And here we're talking about like, you know, military discipline for not doing the right thing. The soldier does not mind a severe code provided it is administered fairly and reasonably. As an instance, here is the verdict of a private soldier on Crawford in the retreat to Karuna. If he flogged two, he saved hundreds from death. Discipline apart, the soldier's chief cares are first, his personal comfort. So this is what, this is what a soldier cares about. His personal comfort, I. E. Regular rations, proper clothing, good billets and proper hospital arrangements. And secondly, his personal safety, I. E. That he shall be put into a fight with as good a chance as possible of victory and survival. Those two things Combined guns and butter, in other words. So are you putting me in a situation where, like, I don't have a really good chance of winning, or at least as good a chance as I can possibly have of winning. If you're. If you're not doing that for me, it's going to be a problem. And have you given me food when you can and clothing when you can and gear when I can? If you. If you haven't done that, that's a problem. Funny to think about, like in, in the SEAL teams, everyone's always trying to, like, get gear. Everyone's trying to get more gear. And I've never really thought of it as such a morale boost, you know, it's for them. If I would have known that back then, I'd be like, sir, we need to get these new boots. Why? Why do you need them? Well, you know, first of all, for this type of environment we're going into, but also for the morale, the troops. Modern generals are hardly known to the large armies they command. But without placing himself. And fast forward a little bit. But without placing himself at the head of his troops in battle, a modern commander can still exercise a very real influence over the morale of his men. An outstanding example is Allenby's regeneration of the Egyptian Expeditionary Force in the summer of 1917 after their two repulses at Gaza in the spring of that year. Australians are not easily impressed by British generals. But the following extract from the Australian official history shows the impression made by Allenby. And here we go. Quote. There was nothing familiar about Allenby's touch with his regiments and battalions. He went through the hot, dusty camps of his army like a strong, fresh, reviving wind. He would dash up in his car to a Light Horse Regiment regiment, shake hands with a few officers, inspect hurriedly, but with a sure eye to good and bad points, the horses of perhaps a single squadron, and be gone in a few minutes, leaving a great trail of dust behind him. His tall and massive but restlessly active figure, his keen eyes and prominent hooked nose, his terse and forcible speech and his imperious bearing radiated an impression of tremendous resolution, quick decision and steely discipline. Within a week of his arrival, Allenby had stamped his personality on the mind of every trooper of the horse and every infantryman of the line so you could have an impact. And this is an interesting little section here. Should a general address his troops collectively or individually? Or individually. I only. I think if he has a gift that way. A gift not of eloquence necessarily, but of saying the Right thing. He must be very sure of himself. He risks more loss of reputation than he is likely to gain. An unfortunate remark or tone or even appearance may lower his stock and do more harm than good. So you guys, like, you know, as a leader, you got to watch it if you're gonna be, if you're gonna be talking, you got to be careful. If you're gonna run your suck, as we say. I've been to a couple, man. I've been to pro, I've been to, I, I don't want to exaggerate, but I've been to some briefs in my time where I was completely demotivated by what was being said. You know what I mean? You're like, dude, and, and, and sometimes I've had the sad occasion where my troops, my troops groups are getting collectively briefed to by someone and it's landing so wrong, and you're like, bro, just I wish you wouldn't have said anything, you know, and, and sometimes trying to say something, you know, like cool or whatever, that can backfire in a kind of a big way too, sometimes. You know, if you just, if you're not sure if you should talk, be brief, be bold, be gone. As, as Megan, Major Megan McClung was known to say, be brief, be bold, be gone. Like, if you don't, if you don't. If you're talking to the troops and you're not really sure, bro, just say something quick. You know, don't try, don't try and be Shakespeare out here. Just try and say something quick. Be brief, be bold, be gone. Now this is. We're going back to the temper. I told, we're gonna set back, we're gonna get back to temperature. Explosions of temper do not necessarily ruin a general's reputation or influence with his troops. So, so he says it doesn't necessarily ruin it. Right. So that's a pretty negative statement. It's saying, look, it does kind of ruin it, but not necessarily. He says it is almost expected of them, which I think is bullshit, especially in this day and age. And it is not always resented, sometimes even admired, except by those immediately concerned. I just don't think that to be true. I, I, I disagree. And it's kind of weird hearing that from a Brit because Brits are, you know, stiff upper lip.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Kind of proper. Yeah. Kind of like limited emotions, especially British officers. So this kind of, what, this one kind of hit me out a little bit out of left field. I just don't agree with it. I don't. I've Never. The only thing, I guess maybe is what you pointed out earlier. And I think this happens with kids, and I've talked about this with JP Danelle is like, when you see your. When you're a little kid and you see your dad lose his temper, and it seems like kind of a superpower because everyone kind of gets out of their way and like, okay, I guess we're just gonna do what dad says. That can rub off. Where now you think like, oh, other people are kind of thinking that. But then you forget that other people are now 24, and you're like, bro, what do you. You can't control your freaking temper. You're yelling and screaming. Look what's wrong with you?

[B]

Yeah, maybe that's. Maybe that's why they. The British kind of consider this to be the case. Because culturally, they don't lose their temper. Culturally, everyone's like, so when they do, it's kind of like this big deal. It's kind of this exceptional moment. See what I'm saying? Because if it's not an exceptional moment, that's kind of like, bro, this guy's flying off the handle again. You gotta get, you know, get his act together kind of.

[A]

Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I'll go with, hey, it doesn't necessarily ruin your leadership capital. Yeah, necessarily. But chances are. Chances are, like, it ain't good. I could see, like, let's say you're a really good leader, and somebody does something that's out of line, and you. You show some emotion and anger towards them, and then everyone goes, damn, dude. Like, you know, Echo just said, hey, He. He's really. He's really serious about, like, we can't. Whatever. We can't show up late. Like, we're gonna be. So I think that might be the situation where you could kind of get away with it. But even that is, like, a stretch for me.

[B]

Yeah, you're right. It feels like you kind of gotta thread a needle, like, very specifically to pull that off where it's, like, effective. And then you can only do it one or two times. Like I said.

[A]

In your life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In your. In your inner workings with that team. Like, this cannot be basically any.

[B]

Anytime that you. You come off as overreacting, you're gonna jam yourself up pretty much.

[A]

So.

[B]

Yeah. So if you do it often. Yeah, I feel like that's overreacting.

[A]

It also has one sentence here. It says, but sarcasm is always resented and seldom forgiven. I was kind of a little bit surprised at that. I get it. You gotta use. You Got to be careful with sarcasm. Sarcasm, Especially in a leadership position, because it cuts way deeper than you. You mean it to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you got to be careful with that. But I don't know. But being resented seems a little bit strong.

[B]

I feel like Sarcas. Well, because sarcasm is humor. Right. Would you say to me, the rule has always been, since I was a kid, up until literally right this moment, the rule is, if it's more funny than it is insulting, you're clear, it's valid. Exactly right. But I think you're. I think you're right, though, where. Yeah. When you're the leader, it cuts different. Like you. Because the subordinate will be like, oh, wait, is he serious? Like, you know, is there a for real problem within that joke? You know, kind of a thing? So. Yeah, makes sense. It's not even, you know, but peer to peer. That's the rule.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of humor, should the high commander have a sense of humor? Certainly a sense of humor is good for anyone, but he must not display it too much or too often. I'm. I'm okay with that. We had the one guy at the muster a long time ago says, you know, hey, I'm a guy. I like to joke around. I like to get my shots in. And no one takes me seriously. I was like, hey, bro, stop making so many jokes. Same thing here. The British soldier. Fast forward a little bit. The British soldier himself is one of the world's greatest humorists. That humorous race that. Sorry, this was funny. I just had to read this. That unhumorous race. The Germans held an investigation after the late war into the causes of morale and attributed much of the British soldiers staying power to his sense of humor. They therefore decided to instill this sense into their own soldiers and included in their manuals in order to cultivate it. They gave an illustration in the manual, one of Baron's father's pictures of old Bill sitting in a building with an enormous shell hole in the wall. A new chum asks, what made that hole? Mice, replies Old Bill. So they got this, you know, a picture, and there's a big shell hole in the wall, and the old salty soldier sitting there. And the new guy's like, what made that hole? And the guy goes, mice. And then it says in the German manual, a solemn footnote of explanation is added. It was, quote, it was not mice, it was a shell. So they had to, like, explain the humor. And I thought that was pretty funny. Fast forward. In the lecture hall of a French infantry school which I once attended, was written the following from Ardent Dupique, which we covered his work on this podcast, we covered this quote as well. The man is the first weapon of battle. Let us then study the soldier in battle, for it is he who brings reality to it. Only study of the past can give us a sense of reality and show us how the soldier will fight in the future. Gotta know people and he kind of goes into that a little bit here to learn that Napoleon won the campaign of 1796 by maneuvering on interior lines or some such phrase is of little value. So like whatever tactics and actual battlefield maneuver Napoleon used doesn't really matter. It's a little value. If you can discover how a young unknown man inspired a ragged, mutinous, half starved army and made it fight, how he gave it the energy and momentum to march and fight as if it did, how he dominated and controlled generals older and more experienced than himself, then you will have learned something. Napoleon did not gain the position. He did so much by a study of rules and strategy as by a profound knowledge of human nature in war. Well, it goes back to human nature once again. Echo Charles. A story of him and his ear early days shows his knowledge of psychology. When an artillery officer. When he was an artillery officer at the siege of Toulon, he built a battery in such an exposed position that he was told he would never find men to hold it. He put up a placard that said the battery of men without fear. And it was always manned. It goes into this a little bit. Here are a few principles that seem to me to embody the practice of successful commanders in their relations with their troops. A general must keep strict, though not necessarily stern, discipline. And again, you're going to find a little nice dichotomy, balancing of dichotomies here. He should give praise where praise is due ungrudgingly by word of mouth or written order. He should show himself as frequently as possible to his troops and as impressively as possible. Ceremonial has its uses. He should never indulge in sarcasm, which is being clever at someone else's expense and always offense. Maybe they have like a little bit more of a nuanced specific definition of sarcasm. Being very directed at a. As a. At a person, he should tell his soldiers the truth, save when absolutely necessary to conceal plants, etc. Few things annoy the soldier more in the late war than the acts than the extracts published by the Intelligence to make out that the German soldiers were fighting badly, etc when the soldier knew they were fighting as stoutly as ever. And we'll close out this section of the book to sum up. The relationship between a general and his troops is very much like that between the rider and his horse. The horse must be controlled and disciplined and yet encouraged. He should, according to an old hunting maxim, be cared for in the stable as if he was worth £500 and ridden in the field as if he were not worth half a crown. And the horse knows, not only by his own comfort whether he's being ridden well or badly, but he knows if his rider is bold or frightened, determined or hesitating. A general must drive his men at times. Some of the best and most successful riders and horse masters are not those who are fondest of horses. A general may succeed for some time in persuading his superiors that he is a good commander. He will never persuade his army that he is a good commander unless he has the real qualities of one. And I got a little bit, a little bit touched or perturbed or a little bit, a little bit annoyed by the statement that some of the best and most successful riders and horse masters are not those who are fondest of horses. Because for me, if you're not a guy that loves your troops, loves your soldiers, then, then we got a problem because we had to care about our soldiers more than anything. But then I thought about this, and I think this is where, this is where I'm going to take it anyways. You know, you get dogs and someone that just spoils a dog, what kind of dog do you end up with? Spoiled dog, Spoiled dog. Someone that just spoils their kids. What do you end up with? Are they going to be functional kids? Are they going to be reached their maximum potential? We know that they're not. So you have to. You can't overly care. You can't care to the point that you are not willing to push them. And. What's the word he used? Yeah, drive, right? You gotta, you gotta push your kids. You gotta push your troops. You got to make sure that they're. Do they're, you know, that they're, they're learning the path of discipline. And if you don't do that, they're not going to reach their potential. And if all you did with your troops was, oh, you guys want to go home? Oh, you guys want to go to the bar tonight? Oh, you guys don't want to come into work tomorrow if that's what you do with your troops, you're not making good troops and they're going to regret it. It's going to be worse for them. But I love that, that kind of point that I closed with, he will never persuade his army that he's a good commander unless he has the real qualities of one. And, like, what that means to me is, you can't fake it, man. The horse knows you're faking it. Have you ever ridden a horse before?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. The horse knows you're faking it. Yeah. They know. You talk to anybody like, those horses know what you're thinking pretty much, kind of more than you do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, you go with Iris Gardner on a horse, like, she will tell you. Like, hey, you're acting nervous. You're like, what are you. What are you talking about? Like, no, the horse can see it. The horse can feel it. And dogs do that to some extent, too.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I remember. Mike Ritland said that where he put. He put it in. I'm totally paraphrasing. But he was like, hey, you know when, like, a person walks in a room, for example, and they're, like, fidgeting and their. Their eyes are darting around, and, you know, you can pick up on that on a person, right? So dogs, they have that sense with you where. So if you're, like, nervous, they can feel your nervousness, you know, it's like, huh. It makes sense, because dogs don't talk to you, you know? So that's kind of all they have is their little vibe. Sensory scenario, you know?

[A]

Yeah. I used to have that with my wife when. When Odin was out and about. She. She would get nervous when he was around other dogs, right? Because. Oh, is he gonna bark? He's gonna lunge? Like, you know, kind of like a level of embarrassment. You know what I mean? Like, I'm a little bit embarrassed. If he barks at this dog, it's a little bit embarrassing. And that nerd. What did that nervousness do? It made. It made Odin think, like, oh, this dog that's walking towards me is a problem.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And guess what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna bark. I'm gonna let him know, do not be a problem with my. With my mom over here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. So her being concerned that he was going to bark made him bark.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I had to be like, oh, just like, it's okay. Just chill and have a good time. And it chilled them out. Yeah, but you're. Yeah, you got to be careful with that. But you. But the dog knows, the horse knows, and your team knows, and you can't. You can't fake it. It's not one of those situations. Fake it till you make it they'll pick up on it. So we'll hit some of the remaining sections of this book. On the next podcast, we'll talk about the. The soldier and the statement. We'll talk about unorthodox soldiers, what it means to be a good soldier. Very interesting take he's got on that. And then how to command. And then some other rules and stratagems of war, which obviously transferred over the rest of our lives. Getting plenty work with today. Lots of work to make us better. And there's always work that we have to do to make us better. Hey, mental work. But remember, there's a lot of physical things as that. As that leader, you got to be physically ready to withstand the shock of war. And look, the shock of war might not come from war, might come from life. In fact, I'll tell you what, it will come from life. So that means we've got to be physically ready, mentally ready. That means we're training. And when we're training, when we're lifting you back on the mats of justice there, Echo Charles.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You know, a little bit here and there.

[A]

Back in the game, as they say, what you roll with.

[B]

You know, actually, an old friend, Scott Cruz, I don't know what belt he is. He got his blue belt back in 18. So, you know, experienced guy, but good guy. He used to work for. With my brother. Oh, right on back in the day. And then Anthony, unchained fit, you know, did some rounds. And then who else? Oh, Dr. Luke, of course, as always, Dr. Luky Boas. But yeah, yeah, good.

[A]

So when we're training, lifting, need fuel, we recommend Jocko fuel. Now, is it true, Echo Charles, that Echo Charles is in a little bit of a cut phase right now?

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Are you cutting?

[B]

Yeah, we're in a cut phase. Okay.

[A]

You know, time to get shredded. Summer shred. Is that what we're doing?

[B]

Oh, well, yeah, yeah, we'll call it that. Hell, yeah.

[A]

I mentioned to you, Jocko fuel burner.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which you have not tried.

[B]

No.

[A]

So I've tried it because I like to try the various products. And one thing that is really kind of surprising is the. Is the, like, hunger diminishment when you take it. It's got, like, the, you know, the. The herbs in it to mitigate hunger. And that seems like. Oh, that seems like a little bit of voodoo. But, man, I'm telling you, if you take some of that, look, it also has got some caffeine in it, so it gives you a little bit of that, too. But, man, it definitely Quells your hunger. If you want to try it.

[B]

Oh yeah, fully.

[A]

Obviously we got weight cutting that goes on in my family. Yeah, you know, we got various, various athletes that are in the weight cutting programs for various combat sports. And so yeah, that burner stuff is really kind of good to go. And it's kind of good to go. Like I said, I was telling you before we hit record today is let's say you, let's say you normally like. I normally eat around like 10. If I would normally eat around 10, I would take that burner stuff at like 9:45, maybe 9:39, 39, 39, 45. And you're not hungry, you know, and then you feel good. So. Jockofuel.com you can get burner, you can get protein, you can get energy, you can get hydration, you can get joint warfare, you can get time war. Man, I recommend you take time war. Time war. Just freaking GTG keep you in. Cuz let's face it, we don't want to know about that 67, 70 year old situation. We ain't looking for that. But that's what's happening. So you know, try. We were fighting that war. Time war. Time war. The time war is effective.

[B]

Oh yeah. When that day comes, where do you want to be? You know, you want to be still in the game.

[A]

Still in the game.

[B]

You're gonna be 70.

[A]

Yeah, it's coming for some people. For a lot of people.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So when that day comes, I'm over.

[A]

Here staying 33, 33. Hey jockofuel.com check it out. Also check out origin USA.com. we got all kinds of like new products coming out. You see coming out with some surf shorts, like board shorts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. All right, super stoked on that. We got the little cargo pocket. So we're all happy. You know, it's. Listen, are these the shorts for surfing? No. Because actual if you're going surfing in Hawaii, you're going to wear surf shorts that are meant for surfing. They might have like a little tiny pocket, but they're, they're, they're just a little bit different. These are board shorts for life hybrids, you know, they're, yeah, they're meant, they have, they got a pocket. You can put your wallet in there, put your, put your keys in there or whatever. And, and yet dual purpose, like you said. Like, did you. Hey look, do we need to jump in the water, make a save or whatever? Maybe do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we got that. We have all kinds of good [e-mail] 100. 100American made. So check that out.

[B]

Also, this jocko store, be in the lookout for some new stuff on there. As always, what's going on right now? Get after it. That's going to be the newest one coming out any day now. I can't say when because, you know, it depends on some things, but if you want to know when, just sign up on the email list. It's at the bottom of the page, jackastore.com but yeah, some good stuff. Good discipline equals freedom. You know, you want to represent. That's where you can get it. The shirt locker is in full swing, has been for years.

[A]

So people like that one.

[B]

People like that one. So yeah, if you're thinking about it, it never pulled the trigger on it. You can go, you can check out what it's all about on the page. Click on the top says join the shirt lock and you can see what it's all about. Anyway, subscription scenario, new design every month.

[A]

It's good. Is it true that when you were a little kid and you got new sneakers, you could run a little bit faster and jump a little bit higher?

[B]

That is 100. True.

[A]

Is it true that when you get a jocko store shirt, you're a little bit more disciplined and a little bit more focused?

[B]

That is true. Yeah, it is.

[A]

Jack. Jocastore.com also we got some books, put your legs on by Rob Jones. We got Dave Burke's book need lead. We got things my brother used to say by Ryan Manion. We got warrior kid books, we got extreme ownership. All those, you guys know the deal. You can check those out. Also we have leadership consultancy, echelonfront.com you heard me mentioned a couple times today we do live events. One's called the muster. If you want to come and check out logistical flow. Come to the Muster, check it out and then you can learn how we make that happen. So that [e-mail] we have online learning as well, teaching these skills of leadership because, listen, you hear me talking about it today, hey, are you born with all the great qualities of a natural leader? Maybe. Maybe you got. Maybe you got a seven in this category and a nine in that category, but a five over in this other one. So we can maybe bump that nine to a nine five, maybe bump that four up to a seven. You see what I'm saying? We can get better across the board. Then are we a better leader? Yes, we are. You can do that right from the comfort of your own home. Echelonfront.com check it out the skills of leadership. Check out primalbeef.com get yourself some ST. That's what we're doing. Also, if you want to help out service members active and retired, you want to help out their families, Gold star families, go to Mama Lee's website. Mark Lee's mom, she actually gave an amazing speech this past weekend at the Ready first reunion down in Fort Bliss, Texas. Gave an amazing speech just about Mark and what we're all doing here, trying to be better, do better, be more and give more. So if you want to help out America's mighty warriors, check out that website, America's Mighty warriors dot org. You can donate or you can get involved. Also check out heroes and horses.org and finally, Jimmy May's organization beyond the brotherhood.org you can also check us out. You can check out jocko.com and then on social media, I'm at Jocko Willink. Echoes at Echo. Charles, Just be careful because there's an algorithm and it'll consume your brain if you're not careful. And even if you are careful, it can still consume your brain. It's called brain rot. They have a name for it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And now it's brain rot plus AI Slop.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

It's like slop rot coming at you. And speaking of soldiers and soldiering, the title of the book we read today, we are grateful for all of our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines who are deployed around the globe right now protecting freedom and our way of life. We thank you. Also thanks to police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, as well as all other first responders who are deployed around our country right now, protecting us here at home. And for everyone else out there, I think it's important to remember this concept that we went over today from Field Marshal Wavel, and that is the relationship between being lucky and being bold. You're not going to get lucky if you're not bold. You have to step up. You have to make things happen. You have to be default aggressive. And if you are default aggressive and if you are proactive and you do have a bias for action, the luck will come. In order to make that happen, well, go out there and get after it. That's all we've got for tonight. Until next time, this is Echo and Jocko out.