541: Skills, Struggle, and Responsibility. With Jimmy May.

Summary

Jocko Podcast 541: Skills, Struggle, and Responsibility with Jimmy May

Date: May 20, 2026
Host: Jocko Willink (A), with Echo Charles (B)
Guest: Jimmy May (C) – Retired SEAL, nonprofit founder, leadership consultant

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Overview

This episode centers on how skills, struggle, and responsibility shape lives—especially in the journey from elite military service to civilian life. Jocko and Echo are joined by Jimmy May, a decorated Navy SEAL, repeat guest, and founder of Beyond the Brotherhood, a nonprofit that guides Special Operations veterans into thriving civilian and entrepreneurial careers. The trio explores lessons in leadership, parenting, and transition, with Jimmy sharing hard-won wisdom from both operational and family fronts. Notably, they dive deep into methods for building character, transferring skills, and combating learned helplessness.

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Main Themes

• Transitioning from military to civilian life
• Leadership and responsibility in family, business, and community
• Skill-building, teaching, and passing on legacy
• Facing adversity and overcoming learned helplessness
• Supporting veterans and the Beyond the Brotherhood mission

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Key Discussion Points & Memorable Moments

1. The Challenge of Military Transition

[00:05]

• Military life gives identity, purpose, and community; leaving strips all that at once, causing "transition stress."
• Translating military skills to the civilian world is tough; finding new community and meaning is crucial.
• Jocko: “The military to civilian transition is not an ending. It's a redeployment. Your mission has changed, but your capacity for excellence has not” [00:55].

2. Jimmy May’s Family and Second Chances

[02:49]

• Jimmy shares taking time off to make up for time missed during deployments:
• Jimmy: “I missed most of my first two kids’ lives... Now I've got a second chance…” [02:49].
• Highlights his daughter’s determination in medicine and his son pursuing veterinary school.
• Discussion on physical performance peaks, aging, and correlations to military training.

3. Parenting Lessons and ‘Dad Drops’

[08:30]

• Jimmy is growing a social media following by sharing practical dad wisdom—“Dad Drops.”
• Practical life lessons: building things yourself, owning responsibilities, doing maintenance.
• Jimmy: “Having those months available... we do a lot of cool things... it's been so good.” [02:47]
• On teaching value: “If you want somebody to value something, you have them build it themselves.” — Jocko [10:55]
• Kids earn money through chores, building self-worth and understanding responsibilities.

4. Letting Kids (and Teams) Learn by Doing

• Let kids set their own rules (“psychological reactance” [16:12]), fail safely, and feel the consequences—leads to resilience and independent problem-solving.
• Jocko: “It’s a beautiful thing to make a mistake on the range… you will then never make again.” [26:41]
• Discussion on treating kids respectfully yet teaching them to question bad authority [13:08].

5. Transferring & Valuing Skills

[31:00]

• Importance of passing down both “hard” and “soft” skills—leadership, self-sufficiency, and even failure.
• Jimmy: “When you pass on those skills… it's part of your legacy and setting your kids up for success.” [31:00]
• Kids often misjudge their own capabilities—the example of “being stupid” at math until they understand practice makes progress.

6. Facing Hard Things & Building Capability

• Encouraging kids—and teams—to have “excess capability” before they need it, both in gear (snow chains) and relationships.
• Stories about teaching self-reliance: hunting, fishing, even releasing opossums instead of killing them [24:14].

7. Mayday Executive: Leadership Adventures for Teams

[45:04]

• Jimmy’s company, Mayday Executive, offers high-stress, team-building adventures for businesses—from spearfishing to driving skills and shooting.
• Story: Some clients faced big fears (e.g., swimming with sharks) and came away changed; everyone’s “big thing” is different.
• Jimmy: “For me, I get to be part of someone’s biggest thing they’ve wanted to do in their whole life.” [45:24]

8. Overcoming Learned Helplessness

[41:14]

• Discussed psychological studies where prior repeated failure made people “give up” sooner; applies to kids and adults.
• Jimmy: “Dad won’t help us… we got to figure it out on our own.” [43:04]
• Problem-solving and resilience come from not swooping in to fix things immediately.

9. Beyond the Brotherhood: Veteran Transition Support

[62:36]

• Jimmy’s core mission—a nonprofit screening and placing high-integrity special operators in new civilian roles.
• Multi-stage support: peer/superior/subordinate references, personality assessments, medical help (detox from meds), mentorship with business professionals, and strategic job placement.
• Jimmy: “Of all of our guys… Not a single suicide from the highest probability guys...” [65:01]
• Focus: Quality > quantity; heavy screening and ongoing mentoring.

10. Fundraising & Impact Events

• Events like Apex Assaulter and Triple S combine elite experiences (driving, shooting, night vision, escape techniques) to raise operating funds and build community for BTB.
• Major NYC swimming fundraiser coming up (around the Statue of Liberty), targeting over $1 million raised for veteran support.
• Open discussion on the need for sponsors, volunteers, and partners [98:33].

11. Reflections on Corruption, Taxes, and Civic Responsibility

[76:03]

• Lively critique of government spending & waste—using California as an example.
• Advocacy for accountability, responsible government, and citizen action.

12. Gratitude & Community

• Jimmy gives heartfelt thanks to his team, board, fiancée, and everyone who’s helped his mission.
• The power of real friendship and “showing up” for your teammates.

13. Passing On Skills: Final Charge

[117:59 & End]

• Jocko closes with a call to consider what skills you have, what you need, and—most importantly—what you can teach others:

“Do you have that skill—the skill of passing on skills? That might be the most important skill of all. So go, get after it. Learn skills and pass them on.” [end]

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Notable Quotes

• “The military to civilian transition is not an ending. It's a redeployment. Your mission has changed, but your capacity for excellence has not.” — Jocko [00:55]
• "If you want somebody to value something, you have them build it themselves.” — Jocko [10:55]
• "Press checks are free. ...the fact that he did not understand the condition of his weapon was a problem for me." — Jimmy [25:13]
• "Letting people brush up against the guardrails of failure… is a beautiful thing." — Jocko [26:41]
• "Of all of our guys… Not a single suicide from the highest probability guys…” — Jimmy [65:01]
• “I’m helping you right now… I’m telling you what to do, but you gotta do it.” — Jimmy [43:04, on letting his son figure out a four-wheeler mishap]
• "Skills don't disappear—but you need to pass them on." — Jocko [31:00]
• “Learn skills and pass them on. ...that might be the most important skill of all.” — Jocko [end]

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic / Segment | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------| | [00:05] | Introduction, transition stress for veterans | | [02:49] | Jimmy May’s family life, second chances | | [08:30] | “Dad Drops”, lessons on parenting and value | | [15:22] | Letting kids set rules, psychological reactance | | [26:41] | Learning from failure, dead man’s gun story | | [31:00] | Passing on skills, importance of skills legacy | | [41:14] | Defeating learned helplessness | | [45:24] | Mayday Executive—leadership through adversity | | [62:36] | Founding Beyond the Brotherhood | | [98:33] | NYC swim fundraiser for BTB | | [101:24] | The call to action: learn and teach skills | | [117:59] | Final reflection on skills and teaching others |

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Resource Links / Orgs Mentioned

• Beyond the Brotherhood: beyondthebrotherhood.org
• Mayday Executive: maydayexecutive.com
• NYC Swim Event: nycsealswims.com
• Mayday Solutions / Cable Pilot: mayday.solutions
• LinkedIn: Search “Jimmy May”
• Various veteran orgs: America’s Mighty Warriors, Heroes and Horses, Warriors in Need

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Tone

• Blunt, direct, occasionally humorous, always encouraging resilience and ownership.
• Jimmy brings humility, gratitude, and practical wisdom.
• Jocko and Echo interject with practical advice, hard-won insights, and familiar banter.

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For Listeners

• This episode is equally valuable for leaders, parents, veterans, and anyone intent on developing themselves or those around them.
• The stories and lessons range from the tactical (how to teach, train, and let others fail safely) to the strategic (how to channel skills and responsibility into meaningful lives after the military).
• The guidance—on what to do, what not to do, and how to build resilient communities—stands on both personal testimony and proven results.

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Call to Action

Learn skills, pass them on, and—if able—support organizations like Beyond the Brotherhood that uplift and empower those who’ve sacrificed most.

Transcript

[A]

This is Jocko podcast number 541 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

[B]

Good evening.

[A]

The military provides more than a job. It provides identity, community structure, and purpose. When those pillars are removed simultaneously, many veterans experience what researchers call transition stress, a combination of identity disruption, loss of community, and uncertainty about the future. Common challenges include translating military skills into civilian resume language, navigating unwritten workplace norms that differ vastly from military culture, finding community after leaving the tight knit bonds of service, managing mental health during a period of major life change. Understanding these challenges is the first step toward overcoming them. The military to civilian transition is not an ending. It's a redeployment. Your mission has changed, but your capacity for excellence has not. And that right there is a quote from an article written about an organization called beyond the Brotherhood. And it was actually founded by one of my brothers from the teams who started his Navy career as an enlisted man on the path of becoming a new Navy nuclear technician.

[C]

Oh, you're gonna say that.

[A]

Hey, it was your career. Thankfully, he found his way to college, rotc, commitment to commissioning, and the SEAL pipeline. Made it through the SEAL pipeline, stationed at SEAL Team 2, followed by language school for Arabic, which he utilized when he joined Task Unit Bruiser in Ramadi. Actually arriving the day that Mark Lee was killed. He was on the operation when Mike Monsour was killed. He was wounded himself. A through and through miracle shot to the chest that missed his body armor and thankfully also missed his heart, his lungs, his ribs, his arteries and his veins. And he went on to become a platoon commander at Seal Team 3, where he worked for Seth Stone. He was a troop commander. He's XO at buds, Deputy Commander at Siege of sodif. Opposite Group one, He finally retired. He's been on this podcast before, episode 405. So if you want to hear the details of his career in the teams, you can have a listen to that. But Jimmy May hasn't taken his foot off the gas since retiring, and beyond the Brotherhood has continued to have a huge impact. And that's not the only place that he's been making things happen. And he's back with us again to share some of his experiences and lessons learned. Jimmy, thanks for coming back, man.

[C]

Thanks for having me, brother.

[A]

You've been turning and burning as usual.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Although you take November and December off.

[C]

That's correct.

[A]

And July.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

That's. That's. That's legit.

[C]

Yeah. Because, you know, I missed most of my first two kids lives because I was gone 300 days a year in the teams. You know what it's like. And now I've got a second chance, and I have. He'll be 12 this weekend, and, you know, I just want to soak it all in. And so having those months available because he's off a lot of school, so we do a lot of cool things off. It's been. It's been so good.

[A]

So you got. Speaking of family, you got. Your old oldest daughter is about to.

[C]

She's about to finish. She's graduating from medical school and Baylor, so super proud of her. She's been driving hard. I mean, she was nine years old. She told me she's gonna be a doctor, and she never looked back.

[A]

So you couldn't talk her out of it, huh?

[C]

You can't talk her out of nothing. She's got a. She got a hard head. She must get it from her mom. That's what I'm thinking. But, no, she's super squared away. She got married about two weeks ago. Another doctor. Great, great young man. Just really happy for them. And so she's about to a residency in Alabama, so really, really, like, she's got a bright light ahead of her.

[A]

How long is residency? Two, three years?

[C]

I think it's four years, and I think it depends on what you're choosing. She wants to be general because she doesn't want to, like, get stuck at some, you know, big campus where you got to, like, you know, be in the city. So she wants to kind of have a broader a reach with things.

[A]

Check. And then what about your. What about your middle son?

[C]

Middle son? Dude, you wouldn't recognize him. He. I saw him at the wedding, and he was jacked. He's. I could. I couldn't recognize him. I was like, who is it?

[A]

How old is it?

[C]

He's 21. I guess the. The. The male stuff started flowing, and he's.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Fighting.

[A]

Oh, he is.

[C]

Oh, yeah, he's fighting. He's training hard, and he's about to finish the semester early, and he's a start. Vet school. So nice. I just. He's got applications in, but I'm pretty confident he'll get. He's been working in the vet industry for a long time. I think he's a. He's got straight A's. He's good, bro.

[A]

When you're between the ages of perhaps maybe like, 14 and 24, you're on steroids. Like, for all practical purposes, like, you are on. If you're that age right now and you're listening to me, this is the best opportunity in your life to get jacked and strong. Echo, Charles. Yeah, agree.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And, yeah, good news about that is. And it goes beyond that as well, age wise.

[A]

But is that the peak time? Did I get it right?

[B]

Yes, but depends on. For what? So, I mean, look, I'm not gonna make it about, you know, my knowledge on this topic, but yes, in a way. Chemically, yes. Structurally, maybe not. You know, and if you're going for, like, big muscles, it extends more. If you're going for performance, not so much.

[A]

But what's the peak. Peak performance time? 33 or something like that?

[B]

No, that's like muscularity and stuff like that. They call it muscle maturity. But no, performance is going to be probably around 25, give or take.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Performance.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really pure performance. 25 is the peak.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

What about. What about strength feats? Same.

[B]

It depends on what you mean by strength. So, like, even, like, per. Again, this is a whole rabbit hole. But even you saying, like, you just said an absolute word, I. I forget what it was. But you. You can't say it's not. It ranges. You see what I'm saying? But even strength is, like, what kind of strength? Powerlifting.

[C]

Yeah. Those probably guys are big. You know, they're older. They're like in the 30s.

[B]

Right. Because structurally, you need, you know, all this stuff or whatever, but like, recovery or, like, speed. That's more younger guys. You see what I'm saying?

[A]

Now, when you were at buds working as an instructor, Jimmy, the young guys are having a harder time, Right. Because they haven't quite, like, matured out.

[C]

Yes and no. Like, you look at Hell Week, and on the backside of hell week, if guys are like, 18 to 20, the. Those guys are wearing shoes the next day, it's like their body just snaps back. But, like, guys are like, 24. It still sounds young, but it takes a little while for them to mature above 28. Dude. I mean, you got to get a waiver to get into buds. And we gave. I think we gave 11 waivers when I was the exo there. Zero made it. The body just doesn't heal fast enough. So it's. It's a. It's a young man's game for sure.

[A]

Damn, I didn't know that kind of stat right there.

[C]

And I know a couple guys that have got through. I think A.J. james, you know that guy?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. You know, he still looks like he's like 23.

[C]

Dude, he's like 60. Yeah, I know. He just doesn't. Yeah, he Just doesn't age. But, you know, he went through it like 33 or something. That guy who was an Abercrombie and Fitch model, and he was like a pro Muay Thai fighter and he decided to become a seal. Like, I'm not making this up.

[A]

Yeah, no, he's a beast. Drago was pretty old too. Going through. I want to say Drago was like 31 or something like that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe Drago's Polish, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So when I got my knee surgery, the doctor asked me seemingly randomly, he said, are you Polish or Samoan? And I said no. He's like, okay. And he just continued on. I was like, why say? Because Polish people tend to heal way quicker than normal people, and so do Samoans. Yeah. You know, I didn't say normal people. That's not a doctor, but that's how I enter, you know, than other people.

[C]

I didn't know Drago in the team, so I talked to him like two or three weeks ago. He's helping us out with this swim. We'll talk about the end, but just interesting. I. Where our paths cross. I'm like, I didn't remember before, you know.

[A]

Yeah, bro, I know he's been on here. I was so lucky to because did a platoon with them at Team two, and we, we had such a freaking good time. And then randomly, he was the. The GROM liaison in Baghdad and he

[C]

did a bunch of stuff with him. Those guys are heavy handed, but, yeah, but good.

[A]

Yeah, they're great. And he was, you know, he was there. So, you know, I show up in Baghdad and there's Drago. It was like, one of my brothers is already here, man, I was so stoked. But yeah, Drago, epic. So. And then you got your youngest boy. Um, and you were just mentioning that. And one of the things I've. I've been, you know, watching you do is you've been doing some LinkedIn posts about parenting.

[C]

Yeah. So I never had social media before, like most of us in the team. So when I got ready to get out, I was like, hey, what should I like, hey, if you're going to run a business, you need to kind of have a social media presence. You should learn about it. So I didn't know anything about it, so I'm like, well, let's just write about something you want to do. And so I started these dad drops because, you know, I really wanted to focus on my second chance of getting to be a dad. And I tell you, it's actually got a really big following. It's pretty funny. And it's just stupid stuff we do together and, you know, there's always some kind of little takeaway. And. Yeah, he's just watching the man he's becoming. I'm really proud of him. You know, he's like, he's got a lot of strengths that I didn't have. And it's been really cool watching him grow. And, you know, he'll listen to this. He listens to a lot of the podcasts I'm on. And you know him, you know, if he always grabbed you by the neck when you see him.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's as he should. But watch yourself. Boy, you sneak up on me, it could be a problem. Some of the things that you. Some of the things that you brought up, some of the topics. One of them is like, build it yourself. And this is actually in the Warrior Kid books. Like, the kid wants a. Mark wants a new bike.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And Uncle Jake's like, cool, you can't get a new bike, but we can get an old bike and we can rebuild it. And think of the value of that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Compared to the value of, oh, you want a new bike? Here you go. I mean, what's a new bike cost, Echo Charles? 100 bucks? Maybe 150.

[B]

Well, yeah, I mean, at the bottom end for sure. Maybe. Okay. Yeah, I think.

[A]

Yeah. When you're buying a seven year old, you're not getting a seven year old. Like a top end bicycle.

[B]

I just got my son a BMX bike used off of like the offer up scenario and it was 150.

[A]

Oh, so. So I'm in the. I'm in the game.

[B]

Oh, yeah, you're talking about the used ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But I mean, even a used BM BMX bikes is showing up kind of dope.

[B]

It showed up dope. Yes.

[A]

How much is it new? 400.

[B]

Yeah, it ranges. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, yeah, 400 for a new BMX bike is normal.

[C]

We actually did the exact same thing with Warrior Kid. We've got the old bike, that's a neighbor. We had to replace the axle and he was like giving his pennies and it took us a while. He like sanded it down and he did a great job with it. And then we ended up. He ended up. Someone gave him a bike later on and he'd outgrown that one. So he went to sell it. And I remember, you know, I saw it on an offer up. Go ahead. So I'm waiting there, I'm watching the guy and the guy's like, well, can you take less? I'm like, bargain with him, you know, and you know, it's 25 bucks you're bargaining with. Like, but he was like seven at the time. You know, he's got it. You've seen his little straight face. He's like, he's like, he looks at me, I'm like. I was like, hold out for 25.

[A]

Did he get the 25?

[C]

He got 25.

[A]

Oh, yeah. So that's a great lesson though, when you. When. And it's it. And by the way, one of the things that I notice about these things is, and this is the same thing I noticed about parenting is it applies to everything. It applies to anyone you interact with. Like, if you want somebody to value something, you have them build it themselves. Including, oh, we got some project that we want to do. And I've got a. My, my team is going to do it. Why don't I let them build the plan? Cuz then it's going to, they're going to take ownership of that plan and it's going, they're going to value it more and it's just the good way to do it. And another one you have is do the maintenance yourself.

[C]

Yeah, he's the Mayday Executive Maintenance manager. It's his title. He gets 10 bucks an hour. Dude, the guy can clean weapons. He scores away my spear gu. I mean, he rinses all the gear. I just drop all the gear in the, in the, you know, in the fridge or the garage or wherever we're at and he just like gets to work and you know, a couple hours later it's clean while I load for the next one.

[A]

So, yeah, there's a, there's a underlying theme here that I've talked about before, which is like, as much as you can treat your kid like an adult, the better off it is. And that's a classic example. You're, you're making him work, but you're paying him. So he's getting. Recognizing that I can earn money, I have value, I can make things happen, I have responsibilities. And if I don't do what I'm supposed to do, I won't get the money. Like, these are really good lessons that you can teach someone. Respect your elders.

[C]

Yeah, you know, we're from the South. Yes, sir. No sir. It's how we roll here. It's kind of weird in California because they got pronouns and stuff, but I'm like, hey, buddy, take your best guess. And you make sure you say sir, ma'. Am. But no, we're Pretty tight on that. Like, he's a very respectful young man. And, you know, he had a little scrape at school pretty recently. We talked about the other day, and, you know, the teachers were like, hey, he's been respectful, and he owned it. And it was a. It was a good walkway. We can talk about it if you want. It doesn't matter to me.

[A]

No, it's. It's an interesting one. And it's funny because, you know, we just had a. The podcast last week. We had a guy on that. I grew up in the same town as me, and I. I was a rebellious kid. Right. And you. You want to have your kids. In my opinion, you want your kids to have the. The level of respect, but also have a little underlying. Of questioning authority.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, like a little bit of questioning authority. Because there's bad people, there's adults that don't deserve respect, and if you automatically think, oh, I. This person's older than me, so they're better than me, smarter than me, no more than me, I need to listen to them. Well, look, there's places where that is actually going to get you in trouble.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So there's a. There's a. There's. You got to teach them both those things at the same time and. And learn because. Yeah, being respectful to people is. Is, you know, elders, people that your age. You know, it's funny, I. I say, like, I treat. When I was in the SEAL teams, I treated the Admiral the same as I treated a new guy. You know what I mean? Now, not if you were in a platoon with me when I was an E4 or an E5 and you were a new guy, I can't make that claim. But when I was a little older and was a little bit more mature, like, didn't matter who you were, it's like, okay, you got something to say, I'm listening to you. That sounds like good idea, or it doesn't sound like a good idea. And giving kids that ability to treat other human beings with respect, but always be keeping in mind that you treat them with respect. What's the thing that Matt has said? Like, treat him with respect, but have a plan to kill him. Don't have to quite go that far, but treatment respect. But remember, people have their own agendas, and people might not be. They might be doing nefarious things.

[C]

Watch out for dude. He's a deep thinker and he always asks really good questions. I mean, you know, sometimes I even know the answer. I'm like, bro, we're going to get on some chat GPT and try and figure this out like. But you know, he asked deep good questions and I'm really proud of him. He doesn't make the kind of grades my first two kids make. He's just not, doesn't have the same interest. I hate to say that he just, just doesn't interest him as much but man, he's always got these really good questions and he's a sharp kid. He's got. He might pull off strays this year, but barely. My other two were just, they just, their little dopamine hit was like ding. When they got good grades. The youngest, he ain't that way. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Next one, let them come up with their own rules. And again I'm, I'm paraphrasing kind of the, the main theme of these posts that you do and you, you will describe a situation that you were in, describe what you did, how you handled it. Sometimes you're like, oh, I screwed this up. Sometimes you're like, oh, this got screwed up for me. Or I could have done it better. But here's the lesson from the future. And one of them was let him, let him come up with their own rules. And the debate you were having is he wanted to stay up till 10 o'. Clock.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And on a non school night. Right. Yeah. And again, a great example of if you let someone come up with the rules, they're so much more apt to be okay with those rules.

[C]

Yeah. He doesn't like being told what to do. So like when we're trying to make him go to bed at a certain time, I was like, hey, time out. Why don't you say what time you want to go to bed? What time should you go to bed? Make you tell me what, what makes sense. And he would say it. And I'm like, okay, then I don't have to remind you anymore. I have to tell you what to do. Right. Because if I do, I'm just going to start reducing it by 15 minutes every single time I have to bring it up. So you're fully in bed by this time, is that correct? He's like, yes sir. I'm like, okay. So he sets this little alarm. It's got this little like Indian guy singing. It's pretty funny. He's into that thing. And so he goes off at like five minutes before he brushes the teeth. He gets in bed. Yeah, it's his rules, not mine.

[A]

You know, there's actually a term for what you're describing, it's called psychological reactance. And it Is a natural human instinct to push back against things that we're told to do. It's a natural thing, psychological reactance. And you know, once you realize that, you look back at your whole life and be like, oh, every time I tried to tell people what to do, they didn't like it. And every time someone tried to tell me what to do, I didn't like it. Now look, are there exceptions to that where you get a leadership vacuum when it's time to make a call? Yeah, those things happen. But with kids, for sure, every time you tell them to do something, they, they usually don't want to do it.

[C]

Yeah. And, and now everything is on. It's on the timeline. He knows his timelines. Like we, we ride E bikes to school. I ride an E bike everywhere. You've seen me running around and it's like probably three or four miles, but he, he leads. So now he knows how to signal with his hands, you know, so he learned how to ride an E bike for me. We got, we're on helmet comms, we're talking the whole time. So, you know, if he's going to do something stupid, at least I can try and slow him down. Because I think a lot of these guys, you see people doing stupid stuff on E bikes. I can't imagine what goes on in the ERs with those things. And it's like, you know, at least he learned, right? For me, I know. Before he gets out there with a bunch of his, you know, half developed brain buddies out there trying to do something crazy.

[A]

E bikes are crazy right now in California.

[C]

Yeah. There is no rules.

[A]

I don't know what it's like in the rest of the country. But look, we live in southern California. The weather is good 100% of the time. And so kids, now, they have these, these vehicles, these E bikes. Some of them can go 60 miles an hour.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And these kids rip on them too. And like, I will see, first of all, they have gangs. Yeah, they look like a motorcycle gang except for their 11.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But there'll be 32 of them ripping wheelies all over the road, the sidewalks. It's. It's freaking crazy. I gotta say. I kind of like it. I do. I kind of like it. I don't know, dude.

[C]

One of these little gangs were on skateboards, came up two houses down from me jumping off my neighbor's roof, like making videos. I'm like, dude, like, that's pretty gnarly.

[A]

But I mean, yeah, the kids are getting after. I wonder what's going to Happen with the E bike thing because I have seen there's been a couple kids killed around here in Southern California riding E bikes. But look, kids got killed on regular bikes too. But kids, there's no rules. There's just no rules. They don't have any signaling devices. So it's just like a kick ass ultimate bike of all time.

[C]

It's one of those things that's super fun until they regulate it. You know, it's like right now it's fun and then they're going to probably put, you know, governors on it. So I don't go that fast. And there'll be some kind of like little like GEO fence where you can ride them. You know, it's going to, they're going to, they'll suck the fun out of it, but it'll also make it safer.

[A]

Yeah, it's kind of a bummer.

[B]

Not to be a downer, but a big part of the E. The E bike thing. Because there's category, how you say, Some go super fast, right? And it's. So it becomes a different category. It's more like a motorcycle, but electric, you know. And some kids with those high end ones, they'll just go on the sidewalk and stuff like that. And you know, they're, you know, like rebellious kids, but they're. You can kill like old people. Like there's like an old guy who's just walking. He's a substitute teacher, he's just walking home and he gets hit with it from one of these rebellious kids who's been kind of on the hook for his reckless driving and stuff like that. And he's like, you know, he's a rebellious kid. He continues doing it, hits this old man, kills them.

[A]

Oh, this happened for real?

[B]

Yeah, here in California.

[A]

Oh, dang.

[B]

So it's like that kind of stuff. I get the cool. It does look cool. But it's like I, I don't, I don't mean to be the old man, but I don't want to die from these freaking kids who can't follow rules. You see what I'm saying? So that's happening as well. So the regulation is not completely.

[A]

Yeah, the thing that's a such a bummer is, is it gives kids so much mobility to go wherever, you know, when they're 13 or 14 years old and being able to go to practice and the thing and the stuff in the friend's house, like now you can do it on a regular bike. My son, who's an older kid now, but he, he's like anti E bikes.

[B]

Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, I could see.

[C]

I was at first too, because, because he pedaled everywhere.

[A]

Yeah. He will tell you, you know, uphill, both ways, the whole nine yards. You know what I mean? Well, I never rode. That's right. You know, like, okay, bro, but he's, you know, that's the way it is.

[B]

Yeah. I have, we have a bunch of E bikes, so I'm down for the E bikes, but I think they're going to break it up into categories with the laws. In fact, I think it's already like that. So if it's like one of these categories, these fast ones are like, okay, that's not an E bike. That's a motorcycle. You see, I'm saying then you have

[A]

certain rules with that certain like, speed limit will.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Be there.

[B]

The one I had have, has, goes like 18 miles per hour. Like you can, yeah.

[C]

But there's a little way you can unlock it to make it go.

[B]

The one.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. The one that I bought for myself, which my, which my son kind of took. And like he's, you know, that, that one can, that one can go fast and go like 30, 30 miles per

[C]

hour, which is, I unlock mine so it goes faster. But the thing is it's got those dorky dad baskets on it, you know, because I, I shop off mine. I got, I got a school books on, so I look, I got like my socks pulled up. Like I look like that dorky dad, you know, and, but so he doesn't ride my bike, but it keeps him off it, but it's faster.

[B]

How fast is his one?

[C]

His goes 22.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So yeah, that's an E bike. That's like not, not crazy. Yeah.

[C]

Whether he pedals or not, mine going up a hill, I got a pedal to get, I get up to 30 something. Yeah.

[A]

Do you think, do you think that if you openly admit that you look like a dorky dad, that that means you're not?

[C]

No, I, I, I know. I mean, dude, I'm not. I know. I pull up the school with the baskets on the bike. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Send it. I got a helmet on. You were just hide my shade.

[A]

You're harassing me about my iPhone holster. Which is funny because I, I, you know, I was surprised because I've been wearing a, some kind of a phone clip since I was the admiral's aide in 2005. And I had a black, I had two blackberries.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

One like for the classified stuff and one for unclass. And like I had to Carry them. And they came with a little holster BlackBerry.

[C]

So.

[A]

So this posted up with that.

[C]

We got him. We know we got him because he's been making excuses for, like, I mean, now on air for, like, five minutes.

[A]

No, it's one of those things where I don't even know what I would do with it if I didn't have.

[C]

It's cool. You're right.

[B]

But. You're right, you're right.

[C]

We'll get you some of them tall white socks to go with.

[A]

Wait, all white socks? We're in there? Yeah.

[C]

You got this.

[A]

Well, that's why I was asking. I was trying to figure out, like, hey, you know, I kind of admit that I look like a dork. Oh, no, no. If you're 100 a dork, there's no escaping it. That's how. And by the way, I do have. Well, my wife has an E bike, and I drive it sometimes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it is not a cool. It's not like a cool E bike. It's not like, looking. Yeah, you don't go, damn, that looks cool. No, you go, that dude's a dork.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. There's a range, right? Like, some of them. Yeah, that's true.

[A]

Next one. Have excess capability before you need it. Boy, this is a good lesson. And you know what's interesting is one of the things we teach at Echelon Front is don't try and build relationships when you need them. You know, try and build relationships when you don't. When actually when you can give something, someone. Like, that's when you want to build. You know, I don't want to run to Jimmy and say, like, hey, I need a favor. You know, I know I haven't talked to you much over the last six months, and we've been working together, but I need something from you now. Can you help me? That's not. That's not. That's not a good way to do it. And your point was, you know, have excess capacity, capability before you need it. And I think the picture was snow chains going on a vehicle. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. He and I were going out, and we're going up to Mammoth for that big dump, you know, and we had. We. I brought snow chains because that's what you do. And, man, you'd be shocked how many people didn't have snow chains. I pulled. Pull people out of the. Out of the ditch. They got their kids in the car. I'm like, bro, you're going to put your kids out here? And, you know, he's got 57 or 70 inches of snow dropped, and you're going to show up here in that, you know, Ford Festiva with no. With no. No chains. It was just. I don't know. I mean, I try to keep him prepared. It's what we do, you know, and it's. It's just an important thing, especially when you're head of a household, you're head of a family, and that's what we're prepping him to be, you know?

[A]

Yeah. Reverence for life, even for a possum.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. So there's a bunch of little critters around SoCal. You know, we. And we had a possum that was eating our avocado. So I tasked the young man with. Kept capturing it. So he needed a live trap. So he caught it, and we got that.

[A]

It wasn't a capture kill operation.

[C]

It was not capture. Well, it was a capture. Detained, I believe is what you have to call it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

They kind of give you the wink, wink when they know it. But anyway, so we caught it. I'm like, what do you want to do with this thing, buddy? You want to kill it? Or he's like, well, is there someplace we can take it? And you guys know the famosa slew down here? That's like our possum release zone. I was like, well, we can take it to the zone. I'm like, yeah, let's do it. And it was pretty cool to let. Have them go out there and, you know, just. We hunt, you know, we kill deer, but we eat it. We kill. We kill fish. And it's just. We don't just kill for no reason. And I think that the food chain is healthy and important, but there's no reason to kill someone if you don't need to.

[B]

So. Yep.

[A]

Reverence for life. This was a good one. Press checks are free. So basically, your boy had a dead man's gun. What we. What we say, what we call in the SEAL teams a dead man's gun, which means he didn't have a round in the chamber, pulled the trigger, and it. It just went click and didn't go bang. And that's a huge violation in the SEAL teams. It's not a safety violation, but it's like a. It's like a mortal sin, you know, It's. You are really gonna catch some if you have a dead man's gun.

[C]

Yeah. You might end up taped up or happy hat.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And, you know, second place in a gunfight is no place to be. You know, actually, I've Lost a few gunfights in my career, unfortunately. And, you know, it's just a. A helpless feeling, I think, goes click. And the other person looks at you and what's going to happen, you know, so that's never happened to me in real life, but when he did that, I was. I had to, like, impress upon him how important that was, that he knows the condition of his weapon. I mean, as a professional, when you pick up a weapon, you should be well trained and you should be professional with that weapon and proficient at least. And the fact that he did not understand the condition of his weapon was a problem for me. So I didn't punish him too hard. But I don't think the young man will have any more dead man's guns.

[A]

Yeah. And I think that was one of the main points that you made, was like, you could have told him, you could have. You could have preemptively saved him the embarrassment, but you didn't. And, you know, this is something I call letting people brush up against the guardrails of failure. And it's a beautiful thing to make a mistake on the range.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That you will then never make again in your life. And so that's real positive. Actually, we just had a guy on the podcast, a guy let. The guy I grew up with, and he got into an incident where he pulled a gun on someone, like they were in a fight, and he pulled a gun on someone, shot the guy once, shot the guy twice, like in the gut. The guy kept coming. He aimed the weapon at the guy's head and it malfunctioned.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. And so he didn't kill him. The fight kind of. I forget the rest of the story, but they broke up, and when. When they went to court, the other individuals had instigated it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so he didn't get in trouble. The lawyer was like, hey, if I ever.

[C]

Or what state was this in?

[A]

Connecticut.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

The judge. The judge said, you know, this was self defense. And he was like. He said. His lawyer spoke and he goes, okay, I'm dismissing this. And. And then the lawyer, the judge looked at him and said, hey, you better go in the military. Immediately. He was like, yes. Anyway. In the Marine Corps. But. But if he would have known the condition of his weapon or he would have known an immediate action drill, he probably would have killed that guy, which for him would have been bad. But.

[C]

Well, if it malfunctioned after two shots, then it's probably. That's not a condition issue. Right.

[A]

That's, like, true.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But he didn't have any immediate action drill. You know, he didn't know what to do.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And. Yeah. So.

[C]

Well, it used to let me fail all the time in the teams, man. I'd do something. You were running trade at, and I was floundering. I remember this one op, we were just. It was just mayhem. You guys killed all of our guys. And then you were just like, what are you gonna do? I'm like, I don't know. I'm trying to carry somebody. Like, put some down, have someone else carry you. Just like, bugging me. And I was like, I didn't have any answers. You just let me fail. And then I remember I failed so hard that I learned a lot. Learned a lot. And probably the biggest failure you let me have was when you asked me. This is actually real world. I came back from up, and I didn't know where we were. You were like, show me on the map. And I couldn't do it. And you just sat there while I figured it out. It was. I know. You knew. Yeah, you just sat there and let me figure it out. And I remember I was so ashamed. I was like. And to this day, I always know where I am. And my son knows that story. You know, we walk out, if he can't find the car. I'm like, you gotta know where you are.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yeah, that's a bad way to learn that lesson. And, you know, it's probably one of those things that I looked at was like, I wonder if he's. You know, I wouldn't want you to roll out into Ramadi not knowing where you are. And I probably didn't really even think of it. And then you, whatever, came back from an opposite. Do you know where you were?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and that's, you know, very lucky for my career was working in training cell as a young SEAL and, like, recognized the importance of that. I. I remember the first time I ever asked an officer. I remember who the officer was. We're out on land Nav and or they were out on a patrol, and he's behind his point, man. And we were up in. We were up by Big Bear doing, like, patrolling, and I said, hey, you know, hey, lt, get out your map. And you got his map. And I was like. I said, you see that mountain over there? And it was the most beautifully articulated terrain feature in the world. It was so obvious. And I go, show me that. Show me that knoll on the map. And, bro, he looked down and he started looking at the map, and his first guess was like, Three kilometers. And I'm like, bro, you don't know where you are. And he's like, so, yeah, it's most important thing to know on the battlefield is where you are, but it applies to so many different parts of life.

[C]

Yeah, you savage me on that. You straight up went through, like, okay, so if someone went down, you got to call Cass. I know you're not the oic, but you were the next guy. What are you gonna do? You're gonna call it. He's like, you just let everybody down. Like, you really. You didn't let me off the hook, you know? And I'm glad you did that, because that's. That was a pretty important lesson I learned. I'm glad I learned it early.

[A]

Jerk. Well, speaking of that, one of the things you have is passing on skills. Like, man, you did say something. I don't remember the exact quote, but you said something like, skills don't deteriorate. Skills don't disappear. And I was like, well, there was a lot of skills that do actually deteriorate. They do go away. But when you pass on those skills, this is one thing that you kind of get for free, that you can give to other people, the skills that you have if you invest some time in them.

[C]

And the cool thing about that is that, you know, I'm not talking about just what I know, but you've. Everybody's got skills, you know, and maybe you can play the guitar, maybe you can draw things. I don't know, stuff that I can't do, but these are things you can pass down to your kids, maybe, you know, a language. These are things that they can have forever, and it's part of your legacy and setting your kids up for success. And I think it's my first two. I have to say, I didn't think this much about being a dad, but now that I'm older, I really am focused on trying to do the best job I can, which is how it should be. You know, I'm not distracted by all the things I was in my youth. And when I think about that, I'm like, what do I have to offer? And I try to freely give him whatever I can.

[A]

Yeah. I think one of the things that I didn't really recognize until I had kids was the inability for kids to recognize what skills actually are. And there's a couple examples of this. Number one being. And I put this in. In way of the warrior kid. It's in there. But, you know, my oldest daughter came home from school one day. Oh, I'm Stupid. I'm like, why do you think you're stupid? She's like, well, I don't know my times tables. And I was like, oh, well, how much have you studied? And she. She looked at me like, what do you mean, studied? And she thought, you should just know how to. You should just know how to know your timetables, something you're born with. And so she literally thought she should just know them or, you know, she should look at them one time and now the other kids know them. So I taught her how to make flashcards, and she learned how to study. But guess what? There's so much fighting. Like, a lot of people think, oh, yeah, you just. You. You kind of know how to fight. No, you don't know how to fight. Shooting. You just don't know how to shoot. You know, you watch the movies and you see people, they just pick up a gun and shoot people.

[C]

Yeah, at.

[A]

With a pistol at 20 yards. Although I was watching a TV show the other day, my walk got home and my wife was watching something and this dude miss. Like, there's like a. There's like a guy with an assault rifle who's shooting, and this guy has a drop on him with a pistol. Yeah. And takes three or four shots.

[C]

Oh, and shot the. His buddy.

[A]

He didn't hit the guy. That was the main threat. And I'm like, bro, that's like, you got a red dot on there, bro. Chill out, get a breath and freaking drill this dude. But. But whatever it is, you know, even this, the basic sports, you know, hockey, basketball, soccer, whatever sport, man, if your kid practices it, they will be better. And this is something I know you kind of like working your kid through to get him a little familiar with jiu jitsu. When I show up. It's more fun. It's more fun when you know what you're doing. It's more fun. You got a little bit of that skill.

[C]

So, you know, during COVID here in California, they shut down all the schools. They shut down churches and schools left over, like, left open, like liquor stores and dispensaries. It was kind of an interesting paradigm they decided to do here. Anyway, they shut down the school, the public schools. And so I was like, I'm not joking. That's actually true.

[A]

No, I live in California, too. It was like, funny that you just said that. And we just kind of carried on with the conversation. It was like, full insanity. Yes, it was full insanity. We're going to shut down this mom and pop, you know, hardware store that

[C]

it's been here for 100 years.

[A]

It's been here for 100 years that. That nine people go in a day. Yeah, that one shut down. But Home Depot, with all these people going in there. Yeah, that one's staying open.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, why? Because that one stayed open. Like, yeah, it made no sense. It was total.

[C]

And what's the. What's that rational behind a strip club? Like, if anything.

[A]

Were strip clubs open?

[C]

Yeah, I heard they were open. I didn't go, but I heard they were. I heard they were open. I knew. I knew I could see your face. I'm like, I'm trapped. But no, they didn't shut those things down. I'm like, what?

[A]

How did they not shut down strip clubs?

[C]

I. I'm sure it was like. It was probably. I don't know. I can only imagine. It was probably like, hey, this is a required business or something, because why wouldn't you shut down liquor stores or marijuana dispensaries? I don't know, but they weren't. But anyway, we.

[A]

We.

[C]

They shut down the school, and so we did the homeschool thing for a while. And, dude, I'm not dumb. I tried, but I'm not a professional educator. Like, I really did. I'd, like, go over the whole curriculum I was supposed to go through, and then I'd even add something cool like we're going to change a tire or something, you know, Like, I tried to throw something else in there and teach him. He was getting. He was falling behind. And so we got a slot for him at Rock Academy, which is like a Christian private school here. This is the best thing we ever did. But the first. When he first got in there, he came home and he's like, dad, I'm dumb. I'm like, oh, buddy, you're not dumb. And you're like, you're not dumb.

[A]

I'm dumb.

[C]

No, you're right. I'm like, listen, it's my fault. I didn't do a good job. But also, the public schools are behind the private school, so they thought about rolling him back. Some teacher there, she was so sweet, took him under his wing. Under her wing. She straight up did, like, you know, lunchtime. And dude, he. He struggled for that first year. And the next thing you know, he's doing. He's getting good grades. But that summer was key. And, like, the warrior kid book with the flashcards, we did that. We did this. I called ahead, I'm like, hey, what's the next year stuff we're doing? We did, like, we got ready on capitals ahead of time. We got on the multiplication table, everything we needed. He went in ready the next year. Now he doesn't think he's dumb. And I was just, you know, it was interesting. He's just. He's not dumb. And it just broke my heart for him to hear him say that, you know, and really, we just didn't have him prepped right after that. We. You know, he's doing great now.

[A]

And that is something that will catch kids all. Same way it caught my daughter. The same way it caught your son is like. And. And it happens, you know, I'm not good at this. I'm not good at that. The first time they go play baseball, the first time they go play soccer, and they've never done it before.

[B]

Guess what?

[A]

You're going to suck. And by the way, this is true. And there's. There's a. There's a. There's like a point in. In things that you have to get past to see what it's going to be like surfing. Like, if you don't stand up and ride the glass on a surfboard, that. That might take you. That might take you one session, but it might take you five or six sessions, Might take you two or three sessions just to stand up. Some people don't even stand up the first time they go surfing. And then. So do you like it? No, I don't like it. It's. It actually sucks. Yeah, I'm in cold water. I'm falling down. I can't breathe right? Like, I don't want to ever want to do this again. In Jiu Jitsu, I always say you have to train Jiu Jitsu until you submit someone for real. Like, if you train Jiu Jitsu until you submit someone for real, the entire journey up until that point is pretty much miserable. You're like, yeah, this. I'm terrible. This sucks. I don't like it. And there's so many different things that if you have to get enough of the skill that you can actually enjoy the activity before you decide whether you don't want to do it or not.

[C]

And, you know, Jiu Jitsu is. That's a perfect example, because when I. I was just intrigued. I showed up. I was a good wrestler. I had a background. I was getting whooped. I'm like, what the hell is happening? Like, I didn't even know I had to tap. And they're like, you want to tap? I'm like, I don't think so. Like, oh, man, I have to do. I should tap. Like, they're just being cool. Like, I just had no idea. And then actually, that happened again when I met you and Ramadi, and you're like, you want to go roll? I'm like, yeah. And then I'm like, what is this? Because, you know, I was thinking I was, like, a blue belt by that time, so I kind of had some time on Earth and in the. On the mat, and there was a level I was not prepared for at that time.

[A]

But, yeah, that's the Jiu Jitsu. But wreck it for kids and adults, by the way, because a lot of times adults avoid things because they try it one time, they go, I don't like this. I'm not. I'm not good at this. No one's good when they start. Like, very few people are good at something. I would say one out of every one, 100 people are kind of good at something like. Like Jiu Jitsu. Like, sometimes you roll someone, you go, this person's never really trained before, but they're gonna be. Jiu jitsu is a tricky one. Jiu Jitsu is kind of tricky. Maybe, like, shooting. Some people have. They're naturally. Probably. Probably three out of every 100 people. Like, they're gonna be. They're just naturally good shots. Right. And then there's three people that are naturally gonna suck, and it's gonna take a lot of work, and occasionally those kids get dropped, like, from training.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But most of the time, those three kids that aren't that great, they'll have to practice a little bit more, but they'll get up to speed. And then the rest of everyone's just kind of in the. In the middle of the bell curve. Like, you're. Yeah.

[C]

I had a hard time learning pistol. I did. I was jumpy. It took me a while to get it, but I eventually got it. You know, I didn't have to get rolled or anything.

[B]

I was.

[A]

I was on the range with some people that are not too. Not too. Firearms familiar. And again, I was watching him. It's like, bro, people are, like, shaking. And. And, like, just. It just. I probably. I mean, I wouldn't do this for real, but I would feel pretty confidently, pretty confident about just attacking them, even if they had a gun, you know? I mean, like, I think I could take them, like, if I saw. If I saw some of these folks on a range, and I was like, oh, bro, I got this. Like, you give me a hundred bucks, I'll. I'll take this full down right now. Because it's not. Because if you don't have that natural skill, and you've never done it before, bro, you're gonna have problems.

[C]

Well, dude, so one of the things that made it executive. We'll talk about that later. I know, but, like, I do a lot of shooting ranges with people, and I like Canadians down here that never touched a gun. And, man, they're literally shaking when they do it. And, you know, you can see them, like, they just can't stop. And it's like, hey, guys, it's a shovel. You pick it up, it does what it said. It does exactly what you can't do anything else. It only does what. What you do. And if you. You know the big three safety rules, you keep those things in mind, we can, like, go. And usually by the end, they're pretty good. I've had guys trying to load the magazines the wrong way, like, putting the bullets in the wrong way. But by the end, I'm not joking, but by the end, you know that I had these. This Canadian group, and they were like, wow, we thought guns were bad, but actually, if everyone's trained by you, it'd be okay. I'm like, yeah, you know, it's just. People just don't know, and they just. They freak out, man.

[A]

That's crazy. So pass on skills. Learn skills and pass them on, by the way. Learn skills and pass them on. There's little things that you can learn how to do. And. And. And by the way, this is a good for your neurological health, is to continue to learn new things. So learn skills, pass them on. The last one I want to talk about, that I noted was defeating learned helplessness. And this I don't know. Do you know any. Do you know much about learned helplessness and what it is?

[C]

I heard that from Mark Schaefer.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And the problem was people were just like. They would see something, and it would just be like, oh, it's too hard. And they. Instead of trying to fix it themselves and then just learned how. I haven't heard it anywhere else except for.

[A]

So there's a experiment. It's a kind of a famous experiment or whatever. Not famous, but it's an experiment that was. That gets done. And you take a classroom of people or whatever, 20 or 30 people, and you divide them into two groups, and they have problems to solve. And one group, the first, let's say five problems are relatively easy, and the other group, the first five problems are impossible. And so they go, okay. They give them the first problem. And, like, one group's like, oh, they get it. And the second group can't get it. Then they give them the second problem, third problem, fourth problem, and then on the sixth problem, they give them like a medium level issue or medium level problem. The people that have gotten all these other ones done, and by the way, they know that they got it done. And they also can tell that the other people couldn't get it done because they're like, you know, put your pens down when you're done. And other people are still trying to figure it out. Well, the people that had achieved repeatedly, they get this medium level problem. And the people that have been defeated, they. They can't get it. And this is very common. It's kind of like that, you know, when you, when you have two. They would take two mice and you put them in a. To fight each other.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And the winning mouse has like an 80% chance of beating the next mouse because it just gets confident. And then it starts walking around just being like, oh, I can kick ass. So the idea of learned helplessness is a real thing. And where this plays in is when you go and swoop in to solve problems for your kids.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And they think that they can't do anything themselves. What was the example? Do you remember the example you used in this?

[C]

I. The one that comes to mind. I don't know if what, I can't remember specifically, but he, he high centered. His four wheeler is. Before I got him a dirt bike, had a four wheeler. And he high center, just four wheeler. And he's like, we're on comms. Like, hey, dad, you help me get this. I'm like, sure. I grabbed him, like, hey, so what I think you should do. He's like, dad, you can lift this. I'm like, well, I know I can. He goes, well, you're gonna help me. I'm like, I am helping you. I'm telling you. Which I want you to lean forward and try and rock. Then hit the throttle. And it took a while and he had some tears going. He's frustrated, he's mad at me, you know, he's like, I know you could just fix this. I'm like, I am, I'm helping you right now. And you know, later on I heard him, his friend was at our house and they were like, well, let's get your dad to help. And he's like, dad won't help us. Dad won't help us. We gotta figure it out on our own. And I was kind of laughing. I'm like, that's right. That's right.

[A]

Exactly right, dude. That's where it should be. Awesome. Well, check those out. LinkedIn. You do these posts like, I don't know, like maybe once a week or once every other week you do something and you got a bunch of other stuff on there, but I thought those were interesting, not only from a leadership of your family, but of everyone.

[C]

Yeah, I think this just. I think I would like to see parents take ownership of their home. And in a way I didn't for my first two kids. And now it's just such an important thing and I'm just. It's one of the most rewarding things in my life is to get to be part of his life. And you know, I still work to help my older kids. They're fiercely independent, you know, like, it's. I'm proud of them, but I didn't get to do a lot with them. And so this with. I'm so grateful for my second chance. Honestly.

[A]

No, it's pretty amazing that your other two kids are so awesome. And it's kind of like, bro, I guess you didn't do too.

[C]

No, no, no, no, no, no. It's not that. Think about it this way. My first two did awesome without much help for me, and now I'm helping this one and there's some pressure. I'm like, what's gonna happen do awesome? Is this. Am I the common denominator? So I got some kind of weird pressure that I, I try not to put on him, but I definitely feel it because the first two did awesome and without me. And now I'm like, oh, you know what I mean, bro, you better.

[A]

No pressure on that. Hey, if you're listening this right now, kid Riker. No, don't worry about it. You just do. You just, just do a good job, man. You're gonna be awesome. Let's talk a little work activity. So you got Mayday Executive. These kind of like our team building exercises, pressure situations, unifying a crew. Tell us about it.

[C]

Yeah, so it started off, I went to, I went to business school and I was like, oh, I guess I can do consulting. So I started doing consulting and they're like, hey, can you do an icebreaker? And then it just turned into straight out adventures. And that's what I'm doing now. And it's been a blast. You know, I, for me, I get to be part of someone's biggest thing they've wanted to do in their whole life. And so it's not always companies. It's a lot of ypo. It's young president, organization, a Lot of eo, but also it's a lot of companies that want to do business development. And so they just come up, they'll dream something up. Crazy, you know, like they want to go shoot a 200 pound fish, or they want to go crash a car or learn J turns, pit maneuvers, or, you know, blow something up. I'm like, okay. Like, they'll usually be like, what do you mean okay? I'm like, yeah, just let me do some math. I'll come up with a number and we'll, we'll figure it out. And usually they're kind of beside themselves. I'm like, yeah, we can make it happen. And then, then we do it. And I don't have any advertising. I don't have anything going on like that. But I'm booked through February right now of next year, and it's just super busy. I got a lot of repeat offender customers. And man, it's just been a really fulfilling thing because little things that we don't think about. You know, it's just a big deal to some people. You know, I. I had a job where we were going spearfishing and these guys, they were just like seven dudes, executives, always wanted to try it. I'm like, yeah, I got you. So we take them out and, you know, before we pull up on this, it's a floating kelp patty. So we're like, I don't know, like 50 miles out to sea and we throw his hook in the water and, man, we hook up to this mako shark. It was cool. And it wasn't. It was, I don't know, it was not big. It was three, five feet, something like that. Anyway, it comes up, we get it right to the edge of the boat, and then that thing spits the hook. And I'm like, that is the perfect scenario. Everyone got to see the shark and none of us have to mess with that tooth monster, right? So then I'm like, let's go check for fish. So I jump in and I look up at the dude and he's looking at me. I'm like, I was like, hey, is get in the water. He's like, there's a shark in there. I'm like, you saw it. It's not big. Get in the water. So the dude, like gets in the water, we swim up, we check no fish. I'm like, this is a disaster. We haven't seen any fish yet today. This whole thing is just sucks. We get on the boat, the dude gets out and he's like, I just Got in the water with a known shark. And I'm like, you did? That is what happened. That's actually factual. And what I had learned from that was like, you know what? Everyone has the things they're overcoming. I didn't think much of it. You probably wouldn't have thought much of it. But you know, for him that was a really big deal and it was really cool for me to get to be part of that. You know, I think for. I remember the guy's name, you know, because I just, I could see the light in his eyes and I was like, that's what we do every week is we come over, we overcome somewhere, we're jumping out of a plane or doing something out of a helicopter or whatever they want to do. And I get to be part of that. And it's been a really, I don't know, it's been just a joyful thing, you know. It's cool.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's awesome. I was. There's a documentary out right now and it's called the Dark wizard and it's about a guy named Dean Potter who is a rock climber, bass jumper, free solo guy. And at one point and he, Alex Honnold was coming up behind him. He's a little bit younger and this guy Dean Potter like wasn't quite as skilled as Alex Honnold was. And Alex Honnold is just kind of, kind of doing things that this guy wants to do and Alexander's just kind of doing them and so he's feeling a lot of pressure and at one point he kind of signs up and he started doing this thing that he called free base, which is free free solo climbing. So no ropes but. But wearing a base rig, like a little tiny base rig. So if he fell he had a chance of being able to pull.

[C]

But not a whole lot safer.

[A]

Not a whole lot safer. But you know when you're 2,000ft up in Yosemite then you know, if you can, you think you're not going to make it, you can kick off, you know, track away and hopefully be all right. So that was his plan and he had this one, this one climb scheduled. So you've been to Yosemite? I have, yeah. So he's planning to do this like top part of El Cap. He's going to do this little repel down, traverse across and then climb up maybe 700ft, something like that. Yeah.

[C]

And if you haven't seen El Cap, It's a scary 3,000.

[A]

It's 3,000 straight up vertical it's what? It's what. It's what Alex Honnold climbed. And in free solo. And yeah, when you look at it from the ground, it's totally insane. That's why, you know, that's, to me, is the greatest human physical act voluntary that's ever been done. Because I think people have done more extreme things involuntarily, like the baton death march or there's a bunch of you could go through. But for as far as just volunteering Roger enough to do something, I think that's it. So he's planning to do this with the base rig. And they were at odds with Yosemite because BASE jumping is illegal. And they said, listen, you're not allowed to. You're not allowed to wear a base rig. You can't, you know, you can't BASE jump. You can't have a base rig when you climb. And so he kind of just. They're like, well, you got the film crew here. You're going to climb this with a bass rig. You're not allowed to wear a bass rig. What are you going to do? And he sends it. But when you watch it, you're you. The look. And I think you and me will be like, more familiar with the look of the same guy getting in the water with a shark. Like, I do not want to be doing this right now. And you can kind of see it. And it's really. It was really hard for me to watch. I was like, dude, he does not want to be doing this right now.

[C]

He's.

[A]

He does not want to.

[C]

And he's doing without the bass rig.

[A]

Yeah, no bass rig. He's free climbing it. He's free soloing it with no bass rig. And bro, I mean, Alex Honnold, when you watch him climb, you're just like you. You're. You're feeling when you're watching Alex Hond climb. My feeling when I watch Alex Hond climb is he's got this, like, that's literally when you watch him, you're just like, he's got this. And even when you talk to him like he was on this podcast, you know, you could speak like, you can see that he's just very methodical and logical. And he's got this, you know, and if you get the feeling that if you said, hey, do this. And you assess and be like, I'm not. I'm not capable of doing that, or I am, and I can do it. And so I'll send it. And you get. You're watching him like, dude, this guy does not want to be doing this. And the dude. It's a great, great documentary. It's called the Dark Wizard. But when your life isn't at stake, overcoming those things, like, is a really positive thing, which is exactly what you're talking about, and that's what you do with these groups. And what I like about it is it's a. It allows. There's a vulnerability there within a team. People see each other at a. At a moment of weakness, they get to see the. Each other step up, power through. Maybe they see people's limitations and, you know, there's nothing wrong with that, you know?

[C]

Absolutely. Absolutely. We had a guy that freaked out in the water. Like, he. He had a little water in his snorkel. You know, little things uncomfortable. And you're in the middle of the ocean, it looks like you're up high. And he just panicked. And I was like, hey, man. I grabbed him, drug into the boat, and we kind of got up on the thing and I was like, what happened? He's like, well, I had water in my snorkel. I'm like, there's always going to be water in your snorkel. There's always going to be all these little things. And I think that's been kind of my teaching points with. With spearfishing is like, hey, all these little things are going to bug you, but you've got a mission to do, and you have to focus on that and kind of tune all those things out and just know they're going to be there. They're always going to be there. Incidentally, he lost my spear gun, which was.

[A]

That's a bummer.

[C]

I didn't. I didn't. I didn't beat him up for that. I was like, hey, I'm glad you're safe, you know? Yeah, yeah. They don't float.

[A]

The other thing is, the more you do something, the more comfortable you get with it. And you're going to have water in your snorkel, and people are going to ask you hard questions at your board meeting, and your employees are going to get mad about Psycho. These are things you have to get used to. You have to get conditioned to. You got to get that stress management so you can. So you can overcome it. And figuring out, you know, that's when you. When you figure out that's one thing you figure out in the water, man. And. And I think Buds does a good job of either showing this to you and you figure it out, or you don't figure it out, and you don't make it. If you freaking panic in the water, you're not going to make it through. Buds. Do you think that's accurate?

[C]

Oh, that's absolutely okay. Yeah. Because there's a lot. I mean, during pool comp, you definitely don't have any air. You're out of air. Like, they grab you and they swing you around and you don't have an air left, and you're. There's nothing. And you just. You have to relax and solve the problem because as soon as you start thinking about, oh, my gosh, we're out of air, then you just. You missed a step and you're going to fail anyway. And I think that's an important thing that really sets our people, our. Our guys apart in the teams is that that water aspect is as nasty, man. It was actually the hardest thing.

[A]

Yep. You cannot panic. And then it's not a very. It's not a very far stretch to get to. Oh, I'm getting shot at. I cannot panic. Oh, I'm jumping out of an airplane. I cannot panic. Oh, I'm getting. I'm confused about what's happening right now. I cannot panic. That becomes the nature of it. And I'll tell you what, there's been a couple times. There's one time on a swim. I was on a swim and I almost pulled my UDT life jacket. Just massive waves. It was in Coronado, and I was, you know, caught a wave trying to come back in. And I caught the first wave and was a little bit, like, got. I got, like, all flustered and discombobulated and went deep. And when I came up, I was like, oh. I was like, oh, that's boom. And I got hit with something else. And also, sudden I'm down there and I'm like, oh, wait a second. I haven't taken a breath in quite some time. And I was already tired, and this could be bad. And I started, like, thinking, am I going to pull my UDT life jacket right now? But the cool thing is I was like, no, you're just going to relax and you're just going to float. You have your wetsuit on. You're going to be okay. But that. And then there's. There's been probably two, maybe three times surfing where I had to detach a little bit and go, all right, you got to relax right now because the. You don't know which way is up. You got a freaking chill. You don't have any air. But panicking is not going to help the situation. That's probably happened Two or three times for me. Surfing.

[C]

Yeah. And, you know, I see it a lot of times during the week, and what's cool is I'll see people panic, and if I can get them right back in that same situation, like, hey, listen, calm down. Come back to me. You know, we. We were doing pit maneuvers with cars, and I had this lady, and she just. I mean, she just couldn't relax. She nailed that car, like, so hard. And then, of course, if you hit it in the wrong spot, it goes up into the engine, up into the com. The compartment where the people are at. And I. You know, she's just got out, and she's like, I just can't do this. I'm like, all right, come over here. I was like, breathe. Check this out. And we had. We had to watch another couple. Then we had her do, like, a practice approach or two, and then she nailed it, you know, and it was just so cool to see. And you could just see her be like, oh, what was I so worried about? I'm like, it's because you just didn't have any experience, and now you got it. You're good. And watching people go through those kind of things, it's just a powerful thing. So. I love my job. I love it. I do it every week. And, you know, I always tell people, like, if I'm. If I say I'm gonna do it, I'm the world's worst negotiator. I'm gonna do it. So whether that's like, I'll give you a price. Briar said, I'm gonna do it. We're gonna do it, you know, so we'll figure it out.

[A]

So, yeah, the crunching sound that cars make when they hit is. Is such an interesting sound, and it's almost like a visceral sound when people hear it for the first time. When you hear the. The crunching and folding of metal, yeah,

[C]

it freaks people out. And, you know, the other thing is, when they get in that car, I got to tear all the airbags out because you can't get hit with an airbag. An airbag opens at 200 miles an hour. You get hit with that thing, it's no bueno. And there's a lot of them. There's not just, like, one in the front. There's, like, in the seats behind you, there's, like, side curtains. So I'm, like, cutting. So when you get in this car, the inside looks like. Like, tatter. Like, it does not look like. Like what you used to see. And so People get in this thing and they're like, what is this? And I got, like, metal bolted on the front like Mad Max. So I can kind of make these cars last a little bit more. So it's an exciting thing when people see it and then they get in there and then they start bumping around. And because we just have this that we don't want to, like, actually make contact at first. And once I start, I force people to start doing that. It kind of opens up the aperture a bit. And, you know, after driving school, we go home. We're the worst drivers ever. You know, I mean, I'm sure there's a little bit of that that goes on.

[A]

On. It's a good thing, too. When. When I would. Teaching all my kids to drive, I would bring them down to the Marine Corps base and there's a big, giant parking lot, and I would just make my kids drive to the limit of a. Of a Dodge Caravan. Like, just.

[C]

I remember that thing out.

[A]

Like, tires would be smoking, brakes would be burning. But the thing is, then when you go back and you drive normal, like, you're just so much better. Anytime you can up the intensity of a situation, people get used to that higher intensity. Now you come back to normal. It's like, oh, that's why we Shark Tank people in, like, MMA training, you're gonna. You're gonna be in this Shark Tank, and it's gonna be absolutely freaking awful. And then you go to a normal fight and you're like, oh, okay, there's not going to be another person. And then another person, and another person. Another person. I can handle this.

[C]

Well, dude, I had these cars dropped off for an event I was doing. So I have all these cars dropped off, and I had someone to help me take them up because I was driving like a mile down this dirt road, and then I had one coming the next day. I didn't have anyone to help me do it, so I'm like, all right. So Riker and I go up there and I've got, like, my E bike, and I'm gonna. My plan is to drive it up there and then drive the E bike back and get the. You know. Anyway, I look at him, I'm like, hey, can you drive this? He goes, yes, sir. I'm like, you sure? He's like, yes, sir. I'm like, show me. So we sat and we drove down the dirt road all the way there. I'm like, pretend the car's coming in front of you. And I was like, it's coming now. And like he pulls over, I'm like, okay, good. Drive us back. He drove us back. I'm like, follow me. And we just drove it down there and he set it up and then he's like, dad can do you know how to drift? I'm like, yes sir, I do. So we had a little fun with it after that. But you know, he, once he proved to me he could do it and he got over that initial, you know, he pulled it off. It's been kind of cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anytime you can get people familiar thing, teach them a skill, but then also when you can elevate the training scenarios to be harder.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And more demanding than what they're going to face in real life. Like when you get somebody out spearfishing at 70ft on a breath hold and shooting at an animal that's going by them and trying to get control of that thing. And like then they get to go back to a boardroom and they got to present something like you can, you're going to, you're going to take some good positive lessons away from that.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I, I had one of these executives shot a 130 pound bluefin tuna. So this thing's coming by him at I don't know, 40 miles an hour. And this thing came in and man, he shot that thing. I was so excited for him. He was a little overwhelmed. Got up, he's like, it was a lot, but I don't know, man. He immediately booked two more trips with me. He's like, we're doing this again. So I'm taking him out here in about a month.

[A]

Yeah, sick. Hey, you also got this thing, this invention.

[C]

Yeah, this is kind of a new thing. So my, my little brother, I mean he finished high school like 17. He hated school, just didn't make good grades. But he's super wicked smat. And he, and he came up with this little, it's this little thing that you put on a, on a cell phone tower between the wire and where it's called the, the splice of the tower. The tower pieces. It's such a simple thing and I've showed it to you. When you look at it, you're like, why wouldn't you do it this way? It's obviously a superior way to do it. Anyway, we got that moving. We got the patent done in November and so we're working on that. And you know, I'm just kind of working ops for that piece. It's, it's a, it's a really cool way to do it. It'll make the whole industry safer because now you've got guys hanging off, you know, three, 400ft up in the air, and they're got, like, trying to tape this. This cable and like, put this little loop in it on the top and bottom. Well, now you can just lay it. The cable pilot on it and just pull it right up and it's about 25 faster. Less time up on the tower is safer. And so I think it's only a matter of time before Ansi and OSHA start getting a hold of this thing. But it's going real well, and I'm proud of my brother for coming up with it, and I'm just kind of like, helping set all the. The business pieces in motion.

[A]

Yeah, we work with a lot of construction companies and power companies, so all my linemen out there that are out there, check this thing out. The website is. What's the website?

[C]

It's www.mayday.solutions.

[A]

mayday Solutions.

[C]

There's no.com or anything.

[A]

What's the thing called?

[C]

The cable Pilot.

[A]

The cable pilot. And again, it just. It just helps you route those cables around. Around the splice plate. So it's not. The cables also aren't now rubbing up against the splice plate or the splice plate, getting all chafed and stuff like that. So. Yep, that's cool. I'm looking forward to that. I know I tried to be an investor, but I think you denied me for some reason.

[C]

We didn't deny you. I talked to the boys about it yesterday. They were like. They're like, it'd be cool to have Jocko involved, but I don't think we need it.

[A]

Don't need it. There you go. We're gonna edit. Will you edit that out of the podcast where I told all the lineman company in America to look at this thing? Pull that out. All right, let's get to. Let's get to beyond the brotherhood, so. Because there's been a lot of really great stuff going on there. And, you know, first of all, just refresh us on why you started it.

[C]

Okay. So beyond the brotherhood is. That's the major mission in my life, aside from my son and my, you know, my kids and. And Cat. But beyond the brotherhood. It started within four months of my retirement. Four of my teammates killed themselves, two of which I knew really well. You know, I knew Bobby. Mary's pretty well. And then Mike Day. You probably knew Mike. He's older guy. Anyway, I just didn't know. I was kind of beside myself. You know, I'm like, you've got all these people essentially getting rich off the SEAL ethos, whether they're, you know, I mean, I'm not gonna talk bad about people, but the actors or the. The movies they're making, and these people are getting rich, and the guys are actually built that ethos that they're capitalizing on, are suffering, struggling, and killing themselves. And, you know, with Bobby, I spent all weekend with Bobby before. The weekend before, and then it happened on Monday, and I didn't know what to do. Like, my best friend Bo and I went back over our conversations, and it just didn't seem. We didn't know what to do. And so I couldn't even spell 501C3, but I'm like, we're going to do it. So we. We just started this up and with the goal was like, hey, let's, you know, screen and select Navy seals a character for the next mission in life and just to give them a chance, because these guys are getting out and they don't know what to do. You know, I didn't have social media. Luckily, I went to business school, so I had kind of like a little bit of a network. But these guys don't know. They don't know what they don't know. And they get out and they're like, I'll do executive protection. It's like, these guys have made the. Made it to the pinnacle of warriorhood. And you know what? The same traits it took them to get there are going to help them in business, and it's going to help them in other walks of life that they don't have to carry a gun for people all the time. And that was something that we wanted to really start with. So I didn't know where to start, but I just started. And so the plan was to take in three to five people that first year. And we screened them. We took in 23. I couldn't. I didn't. I didn't know the demand was going to be like, that. I ran out of money. I had to shut down admissions. And then we had to, like, build a pipeline, because now I'm like, okay, this isn't just like, hey, bro, what do you want to do? I got enough people. I have to make a pipeline. So we kind of built a pipeline. I brought Sean Murphy on. He's been on your podcast. And so we started building this whole thing out. And the next year we opened up and we took in 22 before we ran out of money again. And, you know, I'm like, okay, we gotta throttle this. We can't. I mean it's important that we do it and you know I cut my pay down to the bare minimum the board would allow.

[A]

You say just real quick when you say take someone in, just kind of explain what that means a little bit.

[C]

Okay, so we start with the screening process. So we will ask one superior, one peer and three subordinates and those lenses should align and if they don't that just tells us we got to pull the string. You know like everyone should see you up and down the chain. The same kind of person you are. The person above you shouldn't think you're the super nice guy and squared away and the people beneath you shouldn't be like no, he's a dick. Like we see that all the time. It shouldn't be that way. You should be the same person across the board and we've already talked about that today actually. So we screen them. Once they get in the first thing we do is we give them a personality assessment. And that personality assessment is not just like a hey you're estj it's like hey this here's the results. Oh sit down with you know the guy that made it and we're going to go over this assessment and make sure that open up your aperture about what you might want to do. Then we've got you know a medical aspect of it because a lot of guys come in, they're on you know, I mean in the teams you know you get shot or you get ding on you like hey here's some white pills, take these, take a shot, get back on the line and we're happy to do it because we don't want to get pulled off the line. And so at the end of your career you're on all sorts of stuff. You know I was on every NC sid because I had fake hips, I couldn't even walk, I couldn't sleep and so I was on nsids and then guy that's, that's a non steroidal anti inflammatory so like mobic stuff like that. And then I was dabbling in opiates because it was just, I couldn't sleep without it. And so you can, I can see that spiral and a lot of these guys they're on stuff to make them sleep, stuff to make them stay awake and so we get them off all that and I'm on nothing anymore. Like I actually they use CBD to grab to bridge a gap for me and now I'm off of everything. I don't even take that. So it's, we have to get them healthy again. If they need time to reconnect with their families, we're gone 300 days a year. Jocko, you worked to your last day in the Navy. I know you did. I'm like, what are you doing here? Shouldn't you be doing some VA stuff? And you're like, I'll just gotta finish this, you know, And a lot of guys are like that. They don't take the time for themselves. And so we kind of help them with their VA claims, we help them get their CRSC combat related service connected, which means you get tax free on your, on, not your disability, but on your retirement. These are big things for guys who don't, you know, your retirement, you can't necessarily raise a family and live on that on the backside. And so then after that we start introducing him to a mentor. So someone in the business world, a non team guy, someone that can be like, hey, that thing you said is, is aggressively stupid to say. You don't say that in a freaking boardroom, right? So like someone that will like, you know, understand how to like coach them to greatness. And then we give them one opportunity at a time. Hey, try this, try the steel industry. Hey, give this shot over here in the insurance industry. And then we just start kind of like getting them started until it doesn't work the first time. All the time, you know, sometimes. But I would say usually it takes two or three before we find them a niche that's important. And you know, of all of our guys, we've got like 60 something guys now. Not a single suicide from the highest, the highest, the highest probability guys of doing that. And I, why I say highest probabilities, because the guys that kill themselves are not the turds, they're the guys that we put on the line over and over. Who goes to combat over and over. Your best guy, where do you put your best guys? Right up front. You know, they're the ones eating the blast. They're the ones right up in front getting shot at first. And these are the guys who have got the most damage and that we need to care for the most. And so I knew that I couldn't, like I wasn't going to be able to cast a net and just help everybody at once. But I'm like, what we're going to do is we're going to focus our shots where they count, which is on those guys who are most at risk, which is on those best high character guys. And so that's what we do. And it's worked out really cool because to my partners, the people that are hiring through mentoring, they know what we got. When they start seeing these guys, they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You got more of them? I'm like, well, I can't mass produce them, but they're screened, they're selected. And now let's say you get a job as you want to be in realty. And so we. You know, we set you up in real estate. We'll. We'll set you up with a team. We'll set you up with a mentor. We'll get your real estate license. We'll get all of. Because it costs money. You can't just, like, show up and be like, hello, I'm a realtor today. There's, like, little things you have to. We'll take care of all that for you. We'll set you up and get you on a path. So it's. It's. No one size fits none. Some people want to be entrepreneurs. We help them find money to get started. There's lots of different ways to do it. They've got search funds that will hire our guys, and our guys will go out and they'll spend a year looking for a job, looking for a company to buy, and then they'll. They'll buy it. They'll get a 25% sale stake. And so now they'll build this company, and the goal is within five years to sell it within. Beyond the brotherhood, all of our guys, our team guys running it. You know, Drew Forsberg is our executive director. He's going to get poached. That's what happened to Sean Murphy. Sean Murphy was phenomenal. I tell you what, I had a spiritual Hiroshima. When they. When he told me, he's like, hey, they got this. They made this offer. I looked at the offer. I'm like, I can't match that. And he's like, well, I mean, I don't want to leave you high and dry. I'm like, you need to do this for your family, Sean. This is a good thing for you. Like, I'm gonna go be sad for a while until I figure out what to do, but you need to do this for your family.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And so, you know, and shout out

[A]

to University of Health and Performance, my. My friend Matt Hess down there running that thing, and Sean Murphy, Great fit for that. And what they're doing, by the way, is also a really positive thing, trying to take care of veterans and. And get them into a new life when they get done with their military career. So it's a great fit for Sean. And yeah, like you said, it's painful for you, but, you know, it's better for him and. And good. Great for his family, and it's going to be great for the University of Health and Performance.

[C]

So it is. And actually they're looking to hire some more guys, and I think that Sean is laying the groundwork there. And Sean didn't quit, you know, when he. Before he stepped down. I'm like, hey, buddy, I need you to, number one, prep Drew. Number two, come on the board. He's like, yes. So he came on and now he's. He's still contributing, still working, but he. That was a call he had to make for his family. So anyway, what all that was to say the guys are working for us and they get poached. And that's good. You know, it took me a while to eat, swallow that jagged pill that, you know what we're going to lose, guys. But this is just a stepping stone because we don't pay them what they're worth in the market. We just can't afford it. We're a nonprofit, and we're trying to, like, put every single penny we can towards the boys. That's what we do. So the guys know that. So they're going to get poached, and that's okay because we got guys coming in behind them. And these guys aren't going to leave me high and dry. They're going to train and train the next generation and get this flywheel moving.

[A]

The last time you. You were on, did we talk about, like, the. What happened with the whole board, the old board and all that?

[C]

Do we talk about that? No, we. We talked a little bit about it, but, you know, I. Full respect to those guys. You know, what they wanted out of BTV was not what I wanted. And, you know, a couple of board meetings in a row, I was like, hey, you know what? If that's what you want this to be, then you need to, like, change a mission statement, because I'm going to execute this mission statement. We screen and select maybe still as a character of the next mission, or you should fire me. And, you know, about the third board meeting, they were like, hey, we see what you're doing. It's not. It's. It's good. It's not what we had in mind. So we all quit. And when they stepped down, I felt like a gut punch. I didn't know what to do. I was like, these are guys I respect. These are guys that are friends of mine, and they don't want to support this. And it was a. It was a jagged pill to swallow. It took me about a week to figure out what to do. And then I had like a tombstone moment. Like, you know when. Tombstone. When they're just. They're. He's got pinned down and he, they're shooting at him, and he just goes like, no, no. Like that's. I was at MIT doing a job for some folks, the ROM crew. And when I, I just walked out and I called you first. The first number I called, I'm like, hey, buddy, I need some help. And you're like, I don't have time to talk about it. The answer is yes. That's what you said to me. You said, call me tomorrow. I'm like, all right. So one, you were in. And then I called Steve Katina, and then I called Geo, and then I called Greg McClelland. Everyone said yes. Everyone jumped on board. And now, man, it's just. It's been growing exponentially under this just Yalls leadership is amazing. And. Yeah, I remember that conversation.

[A]

Yeah, I do too. I think I was actually driving to trade. You're like, hey, I, I, I gotta talk to you. I need, I need a favor. I'm like, look, I don't have time right now, but the answer is yes. Call me tomorrow when we have time. Yeah, that's freaking friendship dues. You know, when you're. One of your brothers calls you, you gotta just step up. And sometimes you don't really know what you're stepping up for, but if you, if it's your friend and you know, they do it for you, well, then the answer is yes. Let's do this thing. Okay, can you now tell me what the thing is? Yeah, I didn't know. Yeah, but so that, that's awesome. There's also. And so you got Drew stepped up, and Drew's a stud.

[C]

Yeah, so. So Sean and. Sean and I are kind of similar personalities. Drew is completely 180 for me. He is very analytical, very data driven, very much an integrator, Whereas I'm more of like a visionary. And that's exactly what we needed. Like, I, you know, I, I was sick over Sean leaving, but, you know, God had a plan, and Drew is delivered in spades. The guy is so organized. All the things that I wasn't. He is, and he's just really helped us get to the next level. So, I mean, you see, the products, like, my board meetings were nowhere near as good as his. His are tight, you know, I'm just really proud of the job he's doing and, and happy to have him time.

[A]

So you got 60 plus fellows have, have gone through, they're getting placed in all kinds of different businesses, all kinds of different things. You got like, you got guys, like you said, already said in real estate, people that are doing, you know, 15, 20, 25 deals a year as real estate agents.

[C]

Like already in a bad market.

[A]

Yeah. In a, in a crap market with a freaking 7 1/2% interest rate, by the way.

[C]

And you're talking about Aaron Pena, by the way. The great Aaron Pena. That dude was one of my first class guys, you know Aaron. And man, he's coming over here, he's stepped up big time for btb. He does, he puts on his own fundraisers. He's like, he gives back as fast as he can. He's another guy I call, I'm like, hey, I need a, I don't even finish my sentence. He's like, I'm in. I'm like, okay, so yeah,

[A]

we got, you even got a guy running for Senate, Schwartz running for Senate, and Adam Schwarzy. Schwarzy running for Senate in Minnesota.

[C]

There's a lot of problems in Minnesota

[A]

here, so it seems like there could be a couple things that could get straightened out.

[C]

There are. And, and you know, Adam is a guy that we stood beside, so we talked about it. You know, they, they ended up, they took his trident from him. And the reason why is because he was trying to run for Congress when he was still active duty. And, and he's like, okay, well so he had to withdraw that and that's why they took it. And so he's since had it reinstated. But the dude is heart of gold. He's working hard and I think that his heart's in the right place for Minnesota. I would love to see term limits come through on these people. We, he's going to be a new fresh guy. And you know what it's like when you're a new guy. You're fired up. You're in there, you want to do good. Man, these guys who are in there for 30, 40 years, I just don't think they have that same fire.

[A]

No, you know what they do have? Fat bank accounts after 30 or 40 years.

[C]

Ridiculous.

[A]

Somehow they have the fattest bank account accounts, bro. That, that, that corruption up there. And by the way, now they're picking apart California too. And this is, it's, it's as bad, if not worse. It's just heinous.

[C]

Oh, actually, you know Nick Shirley was up there and then they just made a law right here called Nick Shirley law, which means he's not allowed to do that here. They're like, you're not allowed to expose our corruption.

[A]

Totally insane, man.

[C]

I, I don't know, man. Is there a way to spin that another way? I don't get it.

[A]

No, there's no, we don't want you to hear. To expose the disgusting. The thing is, you know, our forefathers in America got taxed on tea and said, you know what? No, they had a tombstone moment. No, we're not gonna pay tax on tea. This is our thing. You can't, you can't tax us on this. We're gonna fight and we're gonna fight, we're have a revolution, we're gonna fight a war. Because you're trying to tax us. If you think about what is happening with the taxpayers money in this country right now, it is absolutely disgusting.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And look, we're in a, I, I, I, maybe it's because we're in A, a good spot as far as quality of life goes in America. But A, are we really? And B, the founders of America, they were people that were in good spots themselves. That's one of the few revolutions in the history of the world where the revolutionaries actually had something lose. Most time revolutions take place because, you know, I have nothing, I don't own anything, I'm hungry and I'm going to go kill people until I get what I want. That's what happens most revolutions. This revolution here in America. We, we, a lot of the people that signed the Declaration of Independence, they were people that had land, people that had money, people that had companies and businesses and they risked it all because they wanted freedom. And they also didn't want to pay tax on this dumb ass to this, to this king. Right? Why are we paying a tax to a king? Are you kidding me? So now here we are and you know, we get swamped with taxes in California and you look around, you say, huh, you know, I guess, you know, okay, maybe if someone's a really positive thinker and they're an optimistic person, they say, you know, I don't mind paying taxes because, because you know, the kids need education and got to take care of the public schools. And I like to have a, a paved road and we're playing for the fire departments and we're paying for law enforcement to protect us and, and so okay, you know, I can pay some money. And then you start seeing where that money's going.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's not going to the police. It's not going to law enforcement, it's not going to the fire departments. It's going to the things that are not just maybe things that I wouldn't consider important to me, but things that I would actually consider to be the antithesis of what, where our money should be spent. I just saw something before we rolled in here today that California, the state of California, has spent $160 million to give iPads to prisoners. Okay? I want my $160 million back. I do not. If you are in jail, you do not get an iPad. I'm not buying you an iPad, and neither should anybody else. So. And that's one little item. That's one. Like if that's happening.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And now you hear about some of this hospice care scams. Like, it's, it's going to be, it's good. There's a reckoning incoming. You know, it's kind of, it's interesting, you know, organized crime. When I grew up on the east coast, organized crime, when I was a kid, it was a real thing.

[C]

Good parallel.

[A]

It was a real thing and it was a real, it was a real thing and it was deep. And there's some, a number of things that happened that really disrupted it. Number one, they made laws. You know, they made laws that, the RICO laws where, you know, if you got rolled up as Jimmy May, but you were connected to me and you were a low level street guy, you would still end up getting 30 years or 40 years or 50 years. So guess what? Jimmy May goes, you know what? I'll tell you about my boss. And that's what they did. So that really hurt the organized crime. But then the other huge part of it is just the electronic accounting. Like you can't hide money like you used to be able to. And so now that's what we're seeing. That's why a guy like Nick Shirley, you know, his original leads were like, wait, wait a second, where's all this money going? Wait, how many. Why Is there a 700% increase in autism treatment in Minnesota in three years? Wait, what does that make sense? So the technology is starting to reveal all these things that have been hidden in the past. So I think just like organized crime has a much harder time being organized crime. I mean, it's not even close to what it was in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s is kind of when it got cleaned up. Like that was a huge business. Billions of billions of dollars in organized crime. Billions. And now. But it got stopped because of technology and, and law enforcement laws got changed. So now there's laws being passed and not, I'm not talking about the next yearly. Don't. You're not allowed in California to expose things. But there's other laws that are being passed, anti fraud laws. Those things come on board. Plus we have technology and plus taxpayers going, look, man, well, I'm an American. I'm feeling pretty, you know, I got my house. You know, I got my house and I pay my mortgage and I got two cars, and I'm pretty happy about that. And I understand I got to pay taxes. That's kind of, that's kind of a pretty general American attitude.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Not all of us think that all taxation is. Is theft 100%. Not all of us think that. Some of us do. Some people go, oh, you know what? I don't mind paying a little bit. You know, I got a fire department want to take care of my law enforcement, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But at a certain point, they go, wait a second, I'm paying for. For what? For iPads for people that are in prison. Why am I paying for iPads for people out in prison? Why am I paying for a hospice, A hospice hospital that exists in a motel somewhere where there's, you know, supposed to be 70 people there and there's zero. Why am I paying for that? And it's just gonna go. And by the way, in California we also have that. The high speed rail. Yeah, a high speed rail, right. That's a real thing. That's. That's billions of dollars, Billions of dollars for something that is, first of all dumb. It's just dumb. And second of all, there's no progress and it's behind and it's billion. Billions of dollars over budget At a certain point that American blood will say, you know what, I'm not paying this shit anymore. So hopefully, you know, we'll just elect some people that will straighten it out.

[C]

Yeah, I don't know. And I, I don't even. A lot of people don't trust elections anymore. I've definitely am skeptical, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I mean. And you know, they had a really good idea. I think it's a good idea. They were like, hey, we'll put these solar panels to cover up this whole canal. And you, you know, it's real estate and it's a good idea, but everyone's like, there's no way you're going to pull this off. You can't even Build, you know, a train. How are you going to pull this off? Like, we're not going to give it if this. The government has lost credibility here.

[A]

Oh, a ton of credibility. I mean. I mean, well, already what we already talked about today. How much credibility does the government get when they were, you know, shutting down schools and keeping liquor stores open? What? What are you talking about? What is wrong with you? Why. Why did you do that? And the whole thing, the 6 foot of spacing and the. Put the mask on your face. All those things. All those things. And you know what? It'd be one thing. It would be totally different if someone said, hey, you know what? We didn't really know. I didn't really know. Like, I thought that the putting cloths on your face was going to make a difference. Turns out it wasn't. Hey, I'm sorry. I was wrong. Hey, the schools, we didn't know and we just shut them down. And you know, I was wrong. No one said that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

No one has taken any ownership of any of it. And so it's very disturbing.

[C]

You know, the SEAL teams had they. I was running opposite group own when this went down. They were like, hey, what do we do? And I remember I looked at the calendar and like, you gotta be ready for like, other operations down range. And I looked at him like, okay, we can take three weeks off and not disrupt anything. And so let's just take a knee for three weeks and see. Cause I don't know. I don't know. Tell you. So the boss said, okay, we'll take a knee for three weeks then. Three weeks. I'm like, we've had a bunch of guys get it. Everyone's fine in five days. These guys are young and strong. The best thing we could do is probably have a big chicken pox party for Covid and be over with. You'll have SEAL teams back online in five days. But I know we can't underwrite that, so let's just train. And we did. And we know that's what we end up doing.

[A]

Good job. You got my vote. You got my.

[C]

I'm not running for anything, but I would vote for you, Jocko.

[A]

Jack, some of the things that you do beyond the brotherhood are kind of a little bit of a reflection of what you. You do at Mayday Executive, meaning you got Apex Assaulter. What goes down with that?

[C]

Yeah, so you helped us with Apex Assaulter. It was huge. I was our best fundraiser ever. Thank you, Jocko. Basically, when I started, I don't know how to raise money I don't know how to ask people for money. I'm terrible at it. And so I decided I would just do like a Mayday executive event and I do a couple of them a year and that's how I would fund btb. So we started off doing these things and then it. The idea for Apex Assaulter got got launched from my friends at Limitless, Charlie Arbor and Ken McElroy. They're like big time investors that had me come up there and do a job for them for something. And they, they're like, hey, let's, let's bust this Apex Assaulter. And do you think you get Jocko to help? I'm like, I'm pretty sure I can get chocolate. Let me ask him. And so it turned out we did. We did some like pit maneuvers and J turns. We had half the group initially. I was going to sell 12 slots. We ended up selling 24. And so I split it half and half. So we did, you know, half the people up on the top shooting arrange and the bottom, the bottom half doing like car crashing and they flip flopped. They got to meet you, have a conversation with you, and then the last day. This was actually super cool company called dni, which is, it's a Delaware Nation Industries. They are, they, they do government contracts. Their leadership was down here. And those two guys at the end, I was like, hey, thank you guys. We raised more money than ever raised. You know, we're at 240,000. We're gonna be able to clear almost everybody off of our queue that we couldn't bring in. And one of those guys named Lance is like, how much more you need? I'm like, well, it costs us about 20k per guy and we got five guys left. He goes, 100k. Hey. He's like, ask for it. I'm like, I don't know how to ask. He's like, no, no, come here. I got it. He gotta be like, hey, in this room, let's do this. I'll go up 10. And man, we got 100K. And we got to clear a whole queue for that year. And I don't know. Good job, Lance. We. He just jumped up and did it and showed me how to do it. I still can't do it like he did, but it was pretty cool. So that was our most effective fundraiser ever to this point. And you were a big part of it. So thank you, Jocko, for doing that always.

[A]

And then what's, what's the difference between Apex Assaulter and Triple S?

[C]

So Triple S is Hosted by one of our board members, Geo. You know, Geo. Geocognitorian. He just gives us this amazing place. It's going to be in November this year. It's up near Pismo beach and just inland there it's this beautiful lavender farm. And he just opens it up for us. Like, if you rented this thing out, it's like it'd be like 56 grand a day and just great accommodations. We get up there, we do this lot. So it changes every year. This year we did Humvee driving, we did some shooting on night vision, and then we did some like escape from restraint. So we taught people how to pick locks and how to pick. How to pick handcuffs and stuff. And we kind of had a big competition and it's pretty cool, man. It's a super fun event. And it's. It's been a. It was our flagship until Apex and Apex, you know, eclipsed it, which is good. And I don't know how, you know, how long we can keep doing events to do that, but they keeping it bigger and bigger. And we've got a big one coming up this year.

[A]

The big one coming up this year, meaning the, the New York City swim.

[C]

Yes, sir.

[A]

So let's get into that.

[C]

Yeah. So I was, I met this guy named Bill Brown and he's done it seven years in a row. He's a former team guy and now he's a lawyer in New York. And he's just a really passionate dude. And that guy has run this swim on his own for years. And, you know, I met him and he was like, hey, I hear. I know a beyond the brotherhood is. He's like this kind of grassroots thing is what I want, I want to support this year. And I'm like, okay, what are we doing? You know, we're going to swim in New York. And so he's like, I need you to help me run it. So I'm doing it. And so I'm doing it through Mayday. And I'm so, I'm helping him to set it up. The permitting process was a mess. I mean, New York is a hard place to get stuff done. We ended up not being able to swim into New York. So we're going to swim around the Statue of Liberty and then back into New Jersey. So we're going. It's a three and a half mile swim. You're with the current, so it's going to be, you know, but it's still legit and you swim out.

[A]

You better hope that Marops guy gets the current Right, you're right, dude. I had, I had. So I'm at team two and we got this big ore where we're off the carrier. We got all these missions going. It's my platoon and my ore is basically Echo Charles, you're getting graded for deployment.

[C]

Operational readiness exercise. Exercise.

[A]

Yeah. So my squad, Squad 2 always gets the raw deal, by the way. But so I'm Squad 2. So we're gonna, we're gonna launch off of a carrier and the helicopter, we're gonna fast rope onto a sub where we pre staged our boats. We're taking the, we're going on the sub. We're gonna, gonna surface the sub, launch the boats, drive to the island, Vieques Island. Do a, do A. I think it was a pilot recovery there. And then drive to marry up with some other ship on a little inflatable

[C]

boat in the middle of the ocean. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well, yeah, the zodiacs were taken.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so there's a guy there, a guy who's a friend of mine, really good dude. Like a very experienced. He was a prior enlisted guy and was very senior as an enlisted guy and then became an officer and we're good friends. He's a freaking stud. And he's like, hey. He goes, hey man, listen, like the currents here always go, you know, south to north. So insert down here and, and extract. So insert way down here south of the island. And then you can hit it and then, and then you can get recovered, go north. And I go, I go, is that the way to. He's like, yeah, it's like the trade winds, the this, that and, and by the way, also on the east coast, back in the day you only had, you only had, you only had. On the west coast we had 55 horsepower motors.

[C]

Oh yeah. And on the east coast, on the

[A]

east coast you have 35 horsepower motors. And the west coast, you know, you're in the Pacific, you're in the Indian Ocean, you've got big giant waves. You gotta have big giant motors. And the, and the west, the east coast during the Atlantic and again, there's obviously places crazy waves over there too, but generally speaking, smaller. So long story short, short, bro, the weather's horrible. The submarine, who the submarine. This was freaking awesome. The. We're in the helicopter and there's, there's waves breaking over the submarine we're supposed to fast rope on. And the, the air crewman guy, he's like, he's like, hey, the sub wants to know if you guys can get on board. And, and I look at the guy and I go, I go tell the cob, the chief of the boat. I go tell the cob, if he can open that hatch, we're coming on board. And he's like, I hear him like, see him like yelling. He goes, the cop says he'll do it. I'm like, cool, we're coming.

[C]

So did you go right to the top of the master on the, on the submarine?

[A]

No, it was, it was, but it was bad, dude. It was like gnarly. There was water all coming into the freaking hatch that was open and everything. But we fast rope on there. We, and then we are on the sub for 12 hours and then we get launched. And the weather got worse. And the weather, the wind and waves were just blowing straight in our face. We actually ran out of gas. We had to stop. I had to like, I had to go, you know what, we have to go to the Puerto Rico, whatever unit it was down there. Unit four, Unit three. No, unit four.

[C]

Maybe they're shut down now.

[A]

Yeah, well, whatever it was, I was like, hey, we have to go and get more gas because we, we're burning double the fuel. So we pulled in like snuck up, filled our stuff with gas, reinserted, got the, and then did the same thing going to recover our boat. We barely made it. It was freaking heinous. So my point in saying this is I hope your maritime gurus get the current right. Otherwise it's gonna be a long ass three and a half mile swim, boys.

[C]

I tell you what, Bill's nailed it every year. So it's three and a half mile swim. It is going to be a long swim, but it's broken up. As you go around the, the, the Statue of Liberty, there'll be a barge out there and climb up that barge and then you'll knock out 100, 100 pushups and then 22 pull ups. And then once we get a full headcount, we'll jump in, take off to the next barge which is on the other side of Ellis island, do the same thing. And then after that we're going to enter back into, right. It's called North Cove, which is near Empty Sky Memorial in New Jersey. And it's super cool. We'll, we'll get up there, we'll knock out your last set of pull ups and push ups and then we'll have a bunch of American flags for folks and, and then you'll march back down to, to the hotel and we'll have a little reception that evening. But it's, it's such A cool thing. There'll be 50. 50 slots for team guys. And then we've got a lot of police and first responders. There's gonna be 300 total swimmers. And then, I don't know, there's some. I mean, Dakota Myers is going to come. I'm pretty stoked about that. There's some other. Yeah, I mean, just.

[A]

He just made it through Battalion Recon School. Like, what a. What a stud. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

What do you say to that guy when he shows up at your. At your training pipeline?

[A]

I say get some. I mean. Yeah. Yeah. What do you say? You're like, thank you for being here. What do you want me to do?

[C]

Sure. Because I think there's something where if you have a cmh, when you show up at the. At a base, you can demand like a band or something, can't you? There's something like that.

[A]

Maybe. I don't see Dakota doing that. No, Dakota's the best, dude. He's freaking awesome. Yeah, that was. That's badass that he's going to be there.

[C]

Yeah. And I think, you know, this is probably. This will. Will be our biggest fundraiser ever. And it's really exciting for me to see, you know, BTB move. I mean, every year you're pushing against this wall, you don't feel like anything's moving. And then you turn around behind you and you can see, see like, hey, we've gone a long way. And this is just, you know, we've doubled every single year as far as, like, our intake, and we've had to grow our staff because you, you can't take in more people until you've got the capacity for it. So we, we're growing in our capacity right now so we can try and bring in more guys. And we're not going to sacrifice quality. You know, it's. It's. Everyone doesn't get to play, and that's okay. You know, we take the best guys. That's. That's what we want to do. We want to do that for these guys.

[A]

So, yeah, the screening process that you set up is, Is awesome because, you know, listen, everyone, I think correctly so, gives a nod of respect to people that have been in the military. Right. Okay, this guy served his country. They deserve a nod of respect and a heightened expectation. Right. If someone's, oh, I was in the Marine Corps, I was in the army, or I was in the Navy or I was in the Air Force, like, okay, so that means you've been through some hard training. You know, you've. You've had to be disciplined, you've had to follow rules, you've had to show initiative. Like, there's a bunch of credit that people get, but that doesn't mean that every guy that has been in the military or has been in Special Operations or has been the SEAL teams is going to be a good fit for an organization or really good fit for the world outside of the military. Like, it's a. It's a thing. So the way that you've been screening guys and the success that they've had shows that it's a great process. And even, even the depth of going one person senior, one peer, and three people subordinate, that's even the most screening that I've heard. You know, like, hey, and by the way, you can look at someone's record and you can. You can assess what they were like, and you or me can look at someone's record and learn a little bit more, but they're still. Man, there's still all kinds of little nuances to your service that paint. Might paint a different picture of who you really. Who you really were. So the fact that you all are doing that is what I think was what is making it so effective. And then on top of that, the training that you give them and the insight that you give them and the mentorship that they get from, not just from SEALs, more importantly, getting mentorship from people that are in the industry that they want to go into.

[C]

Yeah. And they've been powerful as they've. They come into these industries, you know, and this has been like a really passionate investment of mine of, like, my time. And, you know, I've met some really great guys I didn't know before. And, you know, I mean, before I came here, we had a guy that came into some trouble. And, you know, me and his boss and we sat down with him, we went over a plan and we set up a plan for him. And he says, he's a friend of mine. I respect the guy. He screwed something up. But you know what? We're going to have his back. And we. And we're going to pull him. We're going to pull him through because he's. He's a man of character. Just like what happened to Brad Geary. You know, if you don't know Brad Geary is. He's a phenomenal SEAL that basically somebody died in Bud's class when he was a commanding officer, and they tried to pin it all on him, and it really wasn't true. There was a lot of other things I was on the investigation team. I know what went down. And you know, we took him in at a time when, you know, he was at a low spot and, you know, he's really thriving now. He's got a book coming out. He's a big time, you know, just a good man. Five kids. Christian man. Just someone that we all, we all respect. We talked about it before. And he'll be at the swim too. He'll be representing btb. He's. He speaks way better than I do, so.

[A]

Yeah, no, he's. He's great and he's very articulate. Great guy. So the 300, the swimmers, what's the deal? They have to raise money themselves.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

How's it work?

[C]

Explain that. So each swimmer, when they register, they're going to have to. They have to raise $2,000. And so that's. They can find someone to sponsor them and. But usually they come up with a lot more. Like I think last year the swimmers raised $850,000. That's a. That would be game changing for BTB. We've never had. We've never raised that much in a year. We're a small organization.

[A]

So the bar is set at 850. Yeah, I think that's cool. But I think raising the bar to a. Millie, you with me? Echo? Charles, can I throw out some slang?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I think if they can do 850, then getting to a million would be freaking epic. And set a. Set a good bar and then being able to help out so many more guys would. It would just be epic.

[C]

And there's some other angles to this that we can get to that. Millie, if you're going to set that bar, Jocko and I know when you set a bar, we get there, you know, we could. If we're looking for sponsors to help us with things, there's a. Lots of things that we got to pay for that if someone wanted to sponsor it would help us out a ton. All these. We got to buy 300 buoys because these guys got a pull swim buoys. You know, if you have a company that wants to. Can make them or that wants to, you know, to. To buy them for us, maybe we can put your logos on them. Whatever you want to do.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Signed up for that one. We've got an. An after party we need to do. We've got awnings we got to put up. There's. I mean, coolers. I think Jocko Fuel is going to handle. You said you'll handle the, the refreshments. Yeah, but you know so thank you for putting your money where your mouth. You've always done this, and people don't realize how much you give back to Seal Community, not just us, but to a lot of. A lot of different organizations. I know it because I know you, but thank you for doing that because this is a very important cause. And the fact that these guys are killed. We had another guy die last week. Another guy killed himself.

[A]

That's freaking awful.

[C]

Yeah. And not from btb, but.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[C]

It's.

[A]

It's. I saw it. And, yeah, it's. It's just. It's. It's terrible. And, you know, like, I. I always tell people, and I know that you feel the same way, but, you know, like, the teams gave us everything. And so, like, the teams gave me everything that I have. It was from the teams, the thought process that I have, just everything, you know, my family. I wouldn't have. Wouldn't have met my wife if it wasn't for. It wouldn't have my kids if it wasn't for, you know, nothing. And so the teams gave us everything, and so we try and get back as much as we can, and especially with a. With an organization like BTB where it's. We're trying to take care of the guys or, you know, and I'm old enough now that I don't know. I don't know as many guys that are still in as you do, but these are guys that, when you. When you meet them, you're like, oh, yeah, it's team guy. Like, you know, there's generational. People talk about, like, the generational differences. I hang. I go hang around with young team guys, and it's like, oh, yeah, I remember exactly. Like, we could. I could just show up here at 23 years old, and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between me and a guy that's freaking 23 years old that's currently in the team. It's like, oh, yeah, they're just. They're just team guys. And so when they get out, guess what? They need some help. And that's what BTB does. So, yeah, man, it's freaking awesome. It's gonna be an awesome event. It's gonna be awesome to watch you raise a million dollars.

[C]

Yeah, we're gonna do it, man. We're gonna do it.

[A]

Hype it up.

[C]

Yeah. Thank you so much. And, you know, I just. Actually, I'm so grateful for, you know, not just you guys, the whole board, the. The work that you guys do. I mean, I don't know anything about this stuff. I've been out of teams for three years, so I'm just, like, you know, learning how to do things as we do it. And I'm just grateful for the help that you've given. Given us. I'm just grateful for, you know, we have ups and downs, but generally the trajectory is up. And, you know, one of the greatest and best things in my life is, you know, my fiance Kat, and she has really been a force for good in my life. And I'm just really grateful for you, Cat, and I wanted to say thank you for. For the help and the support you've given me on this along the way, because she didn't look for credit. She's like your wife. She keeps her mouth shut, and she just silently supports me whether I can't fix the printer or I can't make, you know, stuff work or I'm about to do something stupid. She's the first to know. And so I'm just really grateful for her influence in my life. So I wanted to make sure I gave a shout out to her.

[A]

Yeah, she likes, I guess, to be behind the scenes. Like, my wife.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, my wife. People used to say, oh, is your wife going to come on the podcast? And I'd be like, nope. Yeah. And, well, you know. Did you ask her? Yep. Well, why aren't you a good leader? Can't you convince her? Nope. In fact, I asked her one time. I said, hey, listen, what if I write questions for you? Yeah. You tell me the answers or write the answers and I'll just read them on the podcast because people have questions for you. And she's like, I don't really want to do that. Okay.

[C]

I like when you do her English accent, though. It makes me laugh.

[A]

I don't like to do that. I don't like that kind of thing. I don't like to do that. I'm like, so, yeah, props to the. Props to the ladies. Awesome. Does that get us up to speed that where we're at?

[C]

I think it does. I don't think we missed anything, but, I don't know. I'm always interested in the echoes angle on things. You know, we were making fun of him earlier because last time I was on the show, we were here for, like, I don't know, hour and a half before he realized, like, wait, you're Jimmy May? I'm like, yeah, bro. Like, we've been rolling together for years, and you just didn't put two and two together?

[B]

It's pretty funny trying to remember it correctly. Like, I knew your name was Jimmy May. That's the thing. I knew your first and last name.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I knew of Jimmy May, the team guy, legend, dude. Just. I don't know. Subconsciously, that's just two different people. See what I'm saying? I'm just talking about Jimmy May. Jimmy made at different times. And I'm thinking about other, you know,

[A]

and, yeah, it all came together because. And we might have talked about that, but for some reason, when I say your name Jimmy, like, when I reference you, I always say Jimmy May. I never just say Jimmy. Maybe it's because it's too common of a name. But I always say, oh, yeah, you know, Jimmy. Like, oh, Jimmy May is coming out. Or I saw Jimmy May, or, you know, whatever. That's what I would say. So I would be talking some story about the teams, and I'd be like, oh, yeah, well, Jimmy May did this, or Jimmy May said that or whatever. But then he's rolling with you and doesn't recognize that the other rolling with you.

[B]

I did not know your last name. I remember. It's all coming.

[A]

Yeah. So you probably just knew Jimmy.

[B]

Jimmy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then what? Halfway through the first time he came on, I said, jimmy made you.

[B]

Oh,

[C]

I was lost. I was like, what are you talking about, dude? We've known each other for years.

[B]

I was like, bro, that was you the whole time. Okay. All right, cool. Do I have any more questions? Yeah, I do, as a matter of fact. Thank you. Let's go back. Rewind a little bit maybe. Mayday. Executive. So you. You said you do, like, all kinds of stuff.

[C]

All kinds of stuff, man.

[B]

So, like, let's say you. You had a potential client or whatever, and they were like, hey, I want to do, I don't know, xyz, something that you've never done before. You're like, hey, hell yeah, let's figure that out.

[C]

And, you know, I would be like, hey, I need a minute. Let me make a phone call. Because there's someone in the teams that can do this stuff. Like, and lots of. I did a land navigation for a group about three or four weeks ago. I just called the guy that runs land now for sqt. I'm like, hey, man, you line me out on this, and because I. We know how to do it. I just, you know, we need for points are. And there's a bunch of logistics I didn't understand.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I haven't had to say no right. Yet.

[B]

Right. Okay. So that was the question. Like, it's not like, you know, you go to certain restaurants and you say, hey, do you guys serve this? And they say, no, we don't serve this.

[C]

But you're not like that made executive serves. So far we served everything that they want.

[B]

Solid.

[C]

Yeah. Why? You got something you want to do?

[B]

Well, actually I like, I like going to take my son shooting.

[C]

Oh, we can just, we can just do that. But.

[B]

Right, that's what I was thinking. I was like, oh, shoot, I need,

[C]

I'll set it up.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But you know, my mind starts, you know, working on these types of things and if, hey, if I got a shop that provides these services, I'm going to take you up on it.

[C]

You know what's interesting is that I think we, we started off with the whole that, the dad thing. Like, you know, you and I have talked about this before, Jocko. Like I would love talked about. Let's start a school and we'll be like, have this school that just grows kids to like actual learn things that are useful and anyway, I've been thinking about doing an event where it's just dads and their sons and I just, I don't, I'm trying to fig dial in the age group, you know, because not, not all nine year olds are equal. I don't know, I, you know, what can I do with them? But I think it'd be cool to have like day one where it's like I trained the dads because I don't want to be the guy. I, I want to be front center. I want the dad to train their kids. So like day one, whether it was doing like land nav or we're shooting or whatever we're doing, I train the dads. Hey. And then I'll be there just in case they got something they can't handle, you know, and I'll run like the safety aspect of it and then have them, you know, camp out and do this stuff with their kids. I just, I'm not trying to make money on. I think it's just something cool to like be like, hey, look, you know, you're the man. You need to take ownership of your family. And, and let's, let's do something special with your kids and I think it'd be a cool thing. So I've been kicking the idea around. I don't know if you guys have thoughts on it, but you know how old your boy?

[B]

Nine.

[C]

That's right in there, man.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And, and he, he shoots. I take him shooting stuff, but it's just at the Indoor range. What? You know, he has a gun that he's kind of designated with.

[A]

Nothing. Excuse. Nothing's on fire.

[B]

No, no, no, no.

[A]

Start when you start shooting through the windows of vehicles and stuff like that, bro.

[C]

We can do all that.

[B]

Well, he's down for all that kind of stuff as long as you start slow and don't just throw him into some weird thing to like, shock this. You know how sometimes that's part of the training thing and you want to shock the system, bro, Come on now.

[C]

I'm not going to do that to your kid.

[A]

I will.

[C]

He will not be down for that.

[B]

No, not at all. But he's pretty sharp, though.

[A]

Ever since the Warrior Kid first book came out, like, I've been talking about the Warrior Kid Academy, the Warrior Kid camps. I think there's going to get a lot of traction when the movie comes out. The movies coming out the day before Thanksgiving, giving. And it's. It's such a good movie. It's so good. It's so. It's just awesome. It's funny. It's. It's funny, it's moving, it's inspirational. It's everything. It's. It's. It's a beautiful movie, but it's going to get kids and parents thinking about that Warrior Kid path, you know, And I think there's.

[C]

Maybe I do a collab with you, bro. I'm not here to try to like, make money or anything. I would love to work with you on it. That's going to be great.

[A]

Cause, yeah, I think. And, and, you know, I even on that initial, we did a podcast 10 years ago about what the Warrior Kid Academy would have like, it's. And we could go back and pull that blueprint.

[C]

It's good.

[A]

It's a solid blueprint. So, yeah, I think something like that is in my future. And, and so, yeah, we'll see what happens there. People can find you on LinkedIn. Jimmy May.

[C]

Yes, sir. Please hit me up on LinkedIn. I'm, I'm. I'm trying to grow that audience. And yeah, it's just Jimmy May and.

[A]

And then BTB. This is www.beyondthebrotherhood.org for Mayday. Mayday is maydayexecutive.com yes, sir. And then if you need the cable pilot, and I don't know if we'll talk about if we're going to leave this in or not based on my ability to invest in the company. If you want. If you need the cable pilot. If you're. Look, if you're A lineman. You're out there. You're one. You're an energy company. You're delivering energy people, and you need to do it more efficiently and safer. Then check out Mayday Solutions. Mayday dot solutions. That's it. There's no dot com. It's mayday dot solutions. And then finally, the nycclswims.com nyccielswims.com we need to. What? We've already got 100 or 12096 as

[C]

of three days ago, but I didn't check it before I came in.

[A]

Okay, so that's gonna sell out quick. If you want to go up there and swim, you got to get registered quick. And then help us raise a million dollars to help out all of our brothers in the teams. That's what we got going on. Jimmy, any closing thoughts, bro?

[C]

No, I. I know that when my brother hears this, he's gonna. He'll let you invest, because my brother Jeremy may. He's a big fan. He listens to all your stuff. So you may have just got yourself in.

[A]

I hope so, bro. Here I am. Otherwise. Otherwise, Echo's on the case. He's gonna edit it right out.

[C]

Well, you know what? I. I do just have just a. A message of gratitude again. I'm just so thankful, Jaco, for your continued friendship. But even, you know, without all the stuff you do now, you been a good friend to me a long time ago. You came and fixed my sink when I was on deployment, and I had, you know, just. You just been a good friend for a long time. And, you know, I. I appreciate it. And I appreciate the things you've. You've put in front of me. And, you know, I'm grateful for where I am in life. Got a great woman, great kids, and I just. I just. Just grateful for the opportunity to be where I'm at. So thank you, guys.

[A]

Well, back at you, man. Thanks for. Thanks for coming on. And again, I'm always here for you if you. You know that. You know, what I have is what you have. That's because what you did for me, what you did for the teams, what you did for the country, and what you're continuing to do right now to help out our brothers beyond the brotherhood of the teams, it's having a huge impact. And so I'm here for you. Always appreciate you, brother. All right, man. And with that, Jimmy May has left the building. He's about to go get after it somewhere. He's about to go make something happen. He's about to go spear fish after he crashes a car off of a cliff and blows it up. And then he's gonna shoot some guns at the car as he's falling down. He once gets in the water, he's gonna spearfish a big giant shark.

[B]

Hell yeah.

[A]

That's what we're doing. When you're doing things like that, you need fuel. We recommend Jocko fuel. Hey, we got hydration, we got go energy, we got protein. We got a new protein. Raspberry gelato. Okay, raspberry gelato. Now listen, the term gelato, right? Is that a term that I would use? Gelato? Have you ever heard me say gelato before?

[B]

Not today.

[A]

I'm pretty sure gelato is just ice cream. A special fancy kind of ice cream.

[B]

Think so?

[A]

Fancy is not really my scene.

[B]

Oh, right, right.

[A]

But in this particular case, there's a reason behind this word, okay? Cuz gelato is like a little extra. It's. It's a little extra ice cream activity. So check it out. We got raspberry gelato. Ready to drink protein.

[B]

Oh, ready to drink.

[A]

Yeah, it's rtg. Rtd.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Oh, now you're talking to rtd. Ready to drink raspberry gelato. We got, we got a bunch of different flavors. What's your favorite flavor? Powdered milk powder.

[B]

Well, now the, it would be the peanut butter chocolate. But recently I've been into the strawberry. I know sounds weird because it was kind of on the bottom of the list. But here's the thing. This is what I've been doing. I've been doing that Greek yogurt thing that Coach Hannah taught us how to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, but I've been doing it with the strawberry thing. You see what I'm saying? And then I, you know how you go off on tangents. So, you know, I'm making these weird strawberry smoothies with this and that and all kinds of other.

[A]

For me, for my program there, strawberry, which I also do, strawberry and vanilla are morning flavors. For the, for the Greek yogurt morning flavors, you can throw a couple blueberries in there, you can throw a couple strawberries in there. You're getting like, was it 20 grams of protein plus 22. Like you got 44 grams of protein boma right out of the gate in the morning.

[B]

Yep. Yes, sir.

[A]

Now in the E. And you get a fresh fruit scenario. Right? That's a morning thing. Right. Afternoon, evening. Chocolate, chocolate peanut butter, chocolate mint. Put some, some little sugar free chocolate chips in there, a handful of nuts, mixed nuts. And then listen, if I'm being quite honest, with you. Shot of whipped cream.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You got yourself a dessert. A straight up dessert.

[B]

Rocky road scenario.

[A]

Yeah, Rocky road scenario. So, Jess, we got, we got everything that you need at Jocko fuel. Go to jockofuel.com or go to your retailer. Go to the store. Go to the grocery store. We probably have Jocko Fuel in there. If there's not, ask for it and we'll get it to you. Also, check out OriginUSA.com we got American made goods. We got American made hoodies. Jiu jitsu, geese, rash guards. I just, I just trained today. I know that other people that are in this room were not training today. Is that because you don't have a rash guard? Is that what's the reason?

[B]

No, no, that specific modality of training, yes. I did skip that particular mode of training today, but I did other sorts.

[A]

It's weird because Carrie came by Kdog. Yep. And he's like, oh, yeah, what's up? And I go, you know, just here training with Echo. And he goes, oh, he's all surprised. He's like, oh, Echo's here. And I go, whoa. Yeah, I'm training with him. And he goes, he goes, where is he? And I go, well, he's here in spirit.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

We got that training in.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

And you had a spiritual rash guard, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

On probably in your mind, your soul was covered. But I was actually in the real world on the mats of justice. Check out OriginUSA.com 100% American made communist free. Slavery free. Built by freedom. Origin USA.com go get some.

[B]

Even in person, the only rash cards I use are Origin Rash cards. And I do have a bunch of them, not to mention a custom one because they go hard.

[A]

Yeah, well, you should use them.

[B]

Yeah, you're right. You're right about that. I'm not going to do that anyway. Also, don't forget about Jaco Star. Discipline equals freedom. As far as representation on the path, shirts, hats, hoodies, other stuff, other accessories. We got these little cool silicon wristbands. I don't really wear that many wristbands, but when I wear them, I kind of feel a little something.

[A]

What do they say?

[B]

Discipline equals freedom.

[A]

That's a good one.

[B]

Yeah, it's a good one. Flags are back in stock, by the way.

[A]

Good people need those flags.

[B]

Yeah. Also we did so the shirt locker subscription situation. New design every month. People seem to like it. I did go one step further. I've been mentioning it. The one of the designs from the past a few years ago that people really like and they, you can kind of tell because when you kind of have it on or whatever, more people than not then, then usual say oh my God, you know, and they make a thing out of it. So anyway, it is released to the public already. Look, you don't have the jump like by this time you don't have the jump on it if you didn't sign up for the email. See, I'm saying the email list or whatever where I let everybody know, but I'm letting you know now. See, I'm saying you do run the risk of certain sizes being sold out or not. Maybe, maybe not. But that's kind of the way it works. You see what I'm saying? But it's out. Sugarcoated lies. That's the one.

[A]

That's a good one.

[B]

It's out to the public. It's on jocko store.com.

[A]

right on. Go get some. Got a bunch of books. Put your legs on by Rob Jones. Need to lead by Dave Burke. I've written a bunch of books. Bunch of kids books. Check them out. Primalbeef.com if you need steak, get some. Coloradocraft beef.com if you need steak, get some. Also we have Echelon front. We have a leadership consultancy. We solve problems through leadership. The next big event that we have that's not sold out is because we have battlefield coming out. Sold out. Council's coming up and sold out. We have the muster in San Diego July 8th through the 10th. And this is a two day leadership seminar, training course, indoctrination. That's what's happening. It is July 8th through the 10th. If you want to come, go to echelonfront.com and check the events and we will see you there. Also extreme ownership dot com. This is our online training academy. You can check that out as well. Also, you know, you can look at Ask Jocko on your application on your phone you can use something called Ask Jocko and it's a AI. What's the word here? An AI simulation of my brain, you know.

[B]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

And it will, it's really good at. It's, it's meant for leadership questions. So check that out. Wherever you get your apps for your Android or your Apple, you can check that out as well. And if you want to help service members, active and retired, you want to help their families, you want to help gold star families, check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got an amazing charity organization. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to America. Mighty warriors.org check out heroes and horses.org and then you heard a bunch about Jimmy May's organization today, beyond the brotherhood.org so check that out. Hopefully you can go to swim or you can sponsor someone that's doing the swim. This would be incredible to be able to raise this type of money to put back into that organization. Check out warriors in need as well. Warriors in need.org you heard from Ben Ingram last week. He's trying to get these veterans that have these skills and put them in the right spot. Let's help them do that. If you want to connect with Jimmy mae, go to LinkedIn and look for Jimmy Mae and you'll find him, give him a follow or whatever it is you give someone on LinkedIn. And then for beyond the Brotherhood, it's beyondthebrotherhood.org For Mayday, it's maydayexecutive.com and then if you need the cable pilot, go to mayday.solutions. and finally for the swim, NYC seals seal swims dot com. Check that out. If you want to connect with us, check out jocko.com on social media and then on the OR that's on the Internet. On the social media. I'm at Jocko Willinks. Echoes. I'm at Jocko Willink. There's no S on that. No s. Echo's at Echo. Charles, just be careful because the reason that thing exists is not to inspire you. It isn't to educate you. It isn't to improve your capabilities, a human. It is to take your time and squander it. So be careful. Thanks once again to Jimmy for coming on. Again. Your loyalty is much appreciated to the country, to the teams and to our brothers. So thanks for what you're doing. A salute to all of our military personnel out there around the world right now in harm's way, protecting freedom and our way of life. Also thanks to our police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, as well as all other first responders. Thank you for protecting us here on the home front and everyone else out there. Let's go back to this idea of skills, right? We talked about passing on skills. What skills do you have? You know, can you build stuff? Can you rewire a house? Can you do a little bit of plumbing? Are you a fighter? You know how to fight? You know some jiu jitsu? You know some Muay Thai, you know, some boxing, Good shot. You know, some archery? You good at communicating with other people? You good at leading? What skills do you have? What skills do you need? How can you build up your skill sets? And maybe most important, what skills can you actually pass on? And do you have that skill? The skill of passing on skills? That might be the most important skill of all. So go, get after it. Learn skills and pass them on. And that's all I've got for tonight and until next time, this is Echo and Jocko out.