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Jocko Underground: Don't Try To Be A SEAL | Feeling Unappreciated in my Marriage
00:20:55
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- [00:00]
A
This is the Jocko Underground podcast. Sitting here with Echo Charles. We have some questions from the troopers which we will answer at this time. First one, maybe a classic question with a little spin on it. Let's go.
- [00:14]
B
Okay. All right. Okay. My son's dream since he was 8 years old is to be a Navy Seal. He's now, he's a college freshman now. Business management major, NROTC program. He's intelligent, hard worker, strong minded, patriot, and athletically superb. He was not excited to join college because all he thinks about is to be a SEAL in colleges, quote unquote is not his thing. But due to his eyesight and medical advice was that vision correction surgery would not happen until he turns 21. My husband and I encouraged him to go to school until his vision is corrected. We believe that education is important, especially if he wishes to run for office one day. Recently he has expressed that he wants to leave school, return home and work and maybe attend college for a few classes until he's 21. He has no interest in being an officer because he wants to be the quote, unquote, first boots on the ground. If he becomes an officer, he would not be able to do that. My fear is that he could be, he could be just fascinated by the movies, books, books he reads, and how cool it is to be a seal. I support him with all my heart, but I'm very scared he would lose an education opportunity. I continue to advise him without pushing too hard and finish, and to finish school so he'll have something to fall back on. But he believes that failure is not an option and if he fails, it's his choice. I don't believe nor wish that he would fail. But his father and I have been through life and we believe in backup plans. How do I direct him in a positive way and how to find peace with his decision if he decided to leave college? Your services. God bless.
- [01:50]
A
So I look at it like this. The easy, the easiest part of this question is the actual little question here, which is how do I direct him in a positive way to find peace if he decided to leave college? Like if he leaves college, it's not that big of a deal. You go to college when you're 20, when you're 19, when you're 25, when you're 23, like, you can go to college. College is not that big of a deal. You can go when you're 30, you can go with your 33. So it's not that big of a deal. So if he, and by the way, if you've got your kids going to college and it costs money to go to college and he's not into it. He's not learning anything. He's not paying attention. He's not getting straight A's, he's not developing a plan, he's not networking with people. He's not doing internships to find a follow on job. You see what I'm saying? It's just a big freaking waste.
- [02:36]
B
Yeah.
- [02:37]
A
So if he's like, hey, I don't want to go to college anymore, be like, cool, let's keep that money. Let me have my money back that I'm paying for you to go to college and you go get a job and you can pay for rent. Right. Because I think it's important you want to pull out of college. Cool. Because I'm supporting you because it's a long term investment in your future, which I'm doing, so that someday when I'm old, you can take care of me. There's the return on investment there, right? Of course you want your kid to do well, you want them to be more successful for you, that's great. But you're also paying so that when you get old, someone's gonna be able to take care of you. So there's a little return on investment that you're looking for and you're investing in them so they can make more money in the future. There's a bunch of reasons for that. So if he wants to pull out of college, I don't think it's that big of a deal. And by the way, I am a person that doesn't believe you need to go to college at all. Like you can be an electrician, a plumber, a welder. There's all kinds of jobs you can get that you don't have to go to college to do. And by the way, there's white collar. You could be, you go in the finance industry with very. Without going to college, certain financial jobs. So there's things that you could do to have a career, whatever. So if he's going to drop out of college, that's cool. Just make sure that he's an adult now and he understands that. And if he wants to move home, cool. He can get a job and he can contribute to household expenses. That is, you have to pay the mortgage so he can help with rent. You have to pay for food. He can help pay for food. You know, you can. That cell phone that's in your pocket. Yep. You can give me 80 bucks a month. You see what I'm Saying if he wants to do that, fine, but he has to understand what that means. College is a privilege. College is a gift. If you're not taking advantage of it, don't go there. And by the way, if my kid was going to college and not be not putting out and getting into it, I'd be like, oh, yeah, you're cut off. We're not sending you and it's a waste of freaking money. So I think that would be fine. And it's not going to change the trajectory of his life. In fact, if he gets a job doing some entry level job somewhere, he's going to learn a lot. He'll learn a lot about life and about value and about work effort. So I think that's the easy part. He wants to drop out of college for a while. Cool. Drop out of college. You want to come home, get a job. You want to start working as a laborer on a construction site? Go do it. It'd be awesome. It's going to be good for you. You want to come and you want to get a job at a restaurant being a busboy, you know, work your way up to being a waiter after a few years. You know what I'm saying? People don't realize, oh, no, it's hard work. So let's think about that. You want to come and you want to join the workforce force at 19? Cool. Come and join it. You will go back to school. You may decide to go back to school in two years. Like, yep, I'm going to college. I'm getting a degree. This is what I'm interested. I don't want to have to do that type of work. Here's what I want to do. Good. You got a plan now? So I like that you want to pull out of college. Cool, we're done. I think that's easy. And he got plenty of time and he'd do a better job. Dude, I went to college when I was 28 years old. What a freaking. Like, you ever, you know the kids that get held back so they're like in school, in high school, so they're, you know, older than the other kids. They can kick ass in wrestling or what? You know. In wrestling.
- [05:36]
B
Yeah. Or football.
- [05:37]
A
Yeah, yeah, or football or whatever. So they're grown men, dude. That's what, that's what it was like when I went to college.
- [05:43]
B
Yeah.
- [05:44]
A
I was a fully formed adult male.
- [05:48]
B
Yeah.
- [05:49]
A
With 10 years of labor under my belt of in the workforce, supporting myself and a family. You think I'm not ready to rock and roll? In college.
- [05:59]
B
College.
- [05:59]
A
It wasn't even, it wasn't even fair. Straight A's, dude, you could not stop me if I went to college when I was 18. It'd be like, how's that working out for you? I'm an idiot. So I think that is totally fine. I think the hard part about this question is whether or not you want to encourage him or discourage him from joining the Navy for an attempt at being a SEAL. Because the training is really hard. And 80% of people don't make it. And 100% of the people don't think they're part of that 80%. 100% of the people think they're gonna make it, 100% of the parents think they're gonna make it. Maybe that's not true. Maybe 90% and so you think you're gonna make it. And by the way, of the 80%, the 80% that don't make it, 75% of those that don't make it, of the 80% are studs. They're freaking studs. They're varsity athletes, multiple sports. They're collegiate athletes, they're professional athletes, they're Olympic athletes, they're Ivy League educated. And countless of those type of people, which are, as you put it, like intelligent, hard working, strong minded, patriotic, and athletically superb, means nothing. Those guys quit by the bushel. By the bushel, they quit. So no one thinks that it's going to be them. No one thinks it's going to be them, but it is them. Him stating that he doesn't want to be an officer because he wants to be first boots on the ground, it's an understandable idea. But the chance that he would not be able to become an officer anyways because he's like not even focused on school, you know what I mean? You're not going to be a person. Like the kids that are getting picked up as officers, they're freaking not only studs, but they've been focused since they were 14 years old on getting the grades and the SAT scores and the ACT scores and the recommendations and the community service and the athletic leadership. They're getting all those things chalked off. So you think you're going to compete with a kid that's been focused on this since he was 13 years old who has actual straight A's that went to the Naval Academy or that went to the ROTC program at, at their college and got a scholarship there and, and are the, the brigade commander of their rotc. You see what I'm saying? So you don't this young man and I'm sure he's a great young man. He doesn't have a chance for being an officer. So that's just off the table anyways. Shouldn't say he's totally off the table. He would have to like refocus his entire existence because he would have to be like, oh, I'm in college right now cuz I want to become an officer. That's why I'm getting straight A's, that's why I'm studying these courses. That's why I'm taking two languages, Fary and Russian. You see what I'm saying?
- [09:06]
B
Hey dude.
- [09:11]
A
The fact that he co run for office one day, that's a weird thing to talk about right now for a 19 year old kid. It's not a great sign by the way, because if you, if, if your goal is to run for office, it's not a great sign. It means you want to build your resume, which is, which is not a good sign. The desire to be a resume builder does not bode well for making it through SEAL training. Nor does it be bode well for being the type of leader that performs well in the SEAL teams. If you're a type of person that wants to like go into politics, not a good sign. Some of them end up in politics, I get it. But they do not go with the intent of going to politics. They kind of end up there. So let's just keep that in mind. Here's another thing, like I'll just throw these out there. Like how many pull ups can you do? Can you do 25 to 30 dead hang pull ups? Can he do, you know, what's his 4 mile run time? Is it under 26 minutes right now? What's his 500 meter swim? Is it under 9 minutes right now? Is he comfortable in the water? Did he play water polo? Like what did he surf growing up? Does he have real comfort in the water? Has he had any injuries because he was, you know, an athlete? Has he had a ACL injury? Has he had a shoulder injury? Those shoulder injuries and back injuries and elbow injuries and knee injuries that you show up to buds with, going to get tested in a way that is not, it's, it's barely even an ethical freaking thing to have happen because they don't care, because combat doesn't care. So there's another option. Oh, he doesn't. And he's got to wait, okay? He's got to wait till he's 21. So there's an eye surgery. Echo Charles they put lasers into your eyes.
- [11:03]
B
Yeah.
- [11:03]
A
And they cut things. Your eye, believe it or not, is still developing until you turn 21. And so you can't get the surgery before you turn 21, which is a bummer. And so you have to wait. Now, one thing that this kid, Maybe this kid's 18, was he a freshman? He could probably go to four years in the army or the Marine Corps, get a good, like, baseline as an infantryman. So that would give you a good base too. For what it takes to make it through SEAL training, The, the SEAL route is hard. We need to keep that in mind. And the chances that this young individual sounds like a great kid, intelligent, hard working, like really focused, the chances are that he won't make it. So we have to keep that in mind. It's a hard route and it, it is something that I do not encourage people to do. I don't encourage people to do it because if I say, hey, Billy, the SEAL teams is the best, you should go for it. And then they don't make it, and then they hate their lives. And, and I don't want to be responsible for ruining their life. So I do not encourage people to do it. And as much as we believe, and like I said, the kids that don't make it through are studs. Division 1 athletes. Name the sport, name the sport. Wrestling, football, swimming, running. They all quit. They've all quit. Hey, they've all made it too, but they've all quit, so it means nothing. All that being said, there is a certain drive in a small percentage of young men that for no logical reason. So what I realized, actually, I realized that when I was thinking about this question, there's no logical reason to try and go to, to try and go in the SEAL teams. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make logical sense. If you were to be put into AI, the pros and cons of the various branches of, you know, should I go to Special Forces, should I go Ranger, should I go Air Force, cct? Should I go Marine Raider, What I did I miss any. You. If you put that into chat GPT and said, okay, here's, here's who I am, here's what I have. What is the best, what is the best route for me to take? AI would tell you any of the other branches, it would tell you any of the other branches. It would just look at the percentage of people get dropped. It would look at the amount of injuries, the amount of people that get disqualified, qualified, the amount of people that don't make it. And what happens when you don't make it? Because what happens when you don't make it through SEAL training? You end up in the Navy. And the Navy is industrial jobs for the most part. Which people that want to be seals don't want industrial jobs. They want commando jobs, they want infantryman jobs. And you don't get those in the regular Navy. So it doesn't make any logical sense to go that route. But guess what? The people that do that route for no logical reason, that there's just one job that they want, there's one job that they want, and that's it. Your son might be one of those people. And here's the thing. If he is one of those people, he's going to go for it. And he needs to make that decision. And in the unlikely, the highly unlikely event, because you hear the 80% attrition rate, that just counts, people that show up to buds, most people don't even make it to buds. So in the unlikely event that he makes it through the most arduous, selective, random, brutal, and ridiculous training pipeline, it's the best job ever. It's the best job ever. He's got to make that decision. And you can't actually help him in either way because if you talk him out of it, he's going to regret it and he's going to resent you. And if you talk him into it and he doesn't make it, he's going to regret it and he's going to resent you. So he's a young man and he needs to decide what he's going to do. And the best thing you can do is support his decision and wish him luck. That's my assessment here. Sounds like you raised a great kid.
- [15:36]
B
So you're saying in a nutshell, he. Either way, college, good deal. But not necessarily a rush to go to college.
- [15:44]
A
No rush to go to college. You know, if he wants to be in the workforce for a couple years while he's waiting to get his eye surgery, cool. And I personally think it's a waste of money anyways if he's not into it.
- [15:54]
B
Yeah.
- [15:54]
A
If he doesn't have a plan.
- [15:56]
B
Yeah, I think so.
- [15:56]
A
And he's not going to become an officer. Dude, save. Make a bunch of money and save it.
- [16:01]
B
Yeah.
- [16:02]
A
That way when you join the Navy or whatever branch, you. You have some money in the bank and like, maybe you can be saving for a house, you know, when you, when you get stationed somewhere.
- [16:09]
B
Yeah. And that would be the plan. This Plan B scenario that they, because you know how they, they were like, oh, we believe in plan B's, you know, because we've been through life and stuff like that. Which makes sense, I think.
- [16:21]
A
Yeah, totally. It does make sense. You know. And you get people that are like, don't have a backup plan. You know. And I get that mentality.
- [16:29]
B
Yeah, yeah, fully.
- [16:30]
A
But you better consider that when again, it's hard to convince someone that 80% of the people that don't make it, you're one of them.
- [16:40]
B
Yeah, yeah, fully.
- [16:42]
A
Cuz why would anyone join if they didn't think they were going to make it?
- [16:44]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [16:44]
A
They all think they're going to make it.
- [16:45]
B
Say yeah exactly.
- [16:46]
A
And you see studs quitting. Quit. So.
- [16:51]
B
Yep. And your, your whole thing. And I always looked at, and always look at. But when I think of buds, which is the primary time where people quit. Right.
- [17:01]
A
Yep.
- [17:02]
B
I, I'm always, I always keep in mind that it's not even necessarily just quitting. There's way, there's many, many other ways for you not to make it.
- [17:11]
A
There are many, many other ways not to make it.
- [17:13]
B
In the injury part of it, I always go to injury because that's, that's like similar to how sports are. You know, people are like, hey, if I dedicate myself, it's like I. The chance of me going to a professional level is like pretty high.
- [17:24]
A
Even if you have misstep a quarter inch on some spin move and you blow out your Achilles and it's a game over.
- [17:30]
B
Exactly. Right. So some guys, because there's a lot of guys in sports and stuff where they play sports their whole life. Really talented, genetically gifted, all this stuff. And they, so now it, it kind of gets narrowed down to work ethic and what they want to, you know, how they're going to plan to do this thing. And then the chances actually are pretty high if you exclude the potential for injury. But injury is like that's one of those things that. Bro. That's not up to you. Most, pretty much most of the time.
- [17:54]
A
There's, there's some other things that aren't up to you too. For instance, some people aren't comfortable in the water.
- [18:00]
B
Yeah.
- [18:01]
A
That you can work on it a lot. But if you didn't grow up that way, it can be a problem. Some people aren't very good at pit shooting a pistol. Some people aren't really good at shooting a rifle. Some people aren't really good at spatial awareness. Some people have a hard time with their proprioception while they're skydiving and they can't flat. They can't do it.
- [18:22]
B
Yeah. So there's, like, things that you can fail, right?
- [18:25]
A
Yeah.
- [18:26]
B
And, like, be out.
- [18:27]
A
You're out. Some people have the one mistake that they make is an accidental discharge on the range. You're done. Yeah, you're done. So it's not just quitting, by the way. Quitting is the vast majority.
- [18:40]
B
Oh, for.
- [18:41]
A
Quitting is the vast majority. But then it comes down to performance drops, which is like, oh, you failed a run. Now you failed another run. Yeah, but there's no yeah, but you failed to run. You failed another run. You're out. There's no yeah, but. Oh, you had water in your lungs. You had a cough. You had a sore knee. You had a sprained ankle. No one cares. Combat doesn't care. And no one at BUDS cares. You failed underwater knot tying. You failed some evolution in the pool. Some evolution in the pool. The tread. You know what the tread is? You're wearing your scuba gear and you got to tread water with your hands up out of the water, dude, to fail that. Yeah, you're done. Bye. Bye. Yeah, so there's a lot of things it doesn't make a lot. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jockounderground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this. We're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way. But we. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are. We're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's Jocko underground dot com. It cost $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email assistanceacounderground.com and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.