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- [00:00]
A
This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 176, sitting here with Echo Charles, here to answer your questions, provide courses of action, recommendations, sometimes even plans, advice, counsel based on the questions that you all send us.
- [00:21]
B
So, brother, this life is. Can be confusing and without, like, not all. Not everybody has, like. Like, solid guidance at every step of the way.
- [00:32]
A
That is true.
- [00:33]
B
That's why this stuff can be very helpful.
- [00:35]
A
Can be. Check. All right, let's get into it. First question.
- [00:41]
B
How. Real quick, you were 18, right, when you joined the military?
- [00:46]
A
Technically, I was 17 when I joined. And. Yeah. No, I was 18. Yes.
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B
So you graduated high school.
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A
Yes.
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B
Graduated. Well, what was your. Because you lived in, like, rural. Right.
- [01:00]
A
The middle of nowhere.
- [01:01]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So you graduated high school, actual graduation, or was that a GED scenario?
- [01:05]
A
No, it wasn't a GED scenario, but I did leave high school kind of early because I had all the credits that I needed.
- [01:10]
B
Yeah. So, yeah. See. Okay. Either way, we're done with high school legitimately, officially. Did you go right into the military? Right.
- [01:17]
A
There's a. There's a waiting period, so I had to wait.
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B
Okay.
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A
Yeah.
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B
How long?
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A
It was long.
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B
Like, more than a year.
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A
Yeah, it was close to.
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B
So you graduated high school? Usually, that's in. When were you done school?
- [01:31]
A
89. 89 of 89. Get some.
- [01:34]
B
So you. But then.
- [01:35]
A
Then I left in 90, so that.
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B
Okay. But that's usually in June.
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A
Yeah.
- [01:39]
B
So June. Do you remember how early. I'm. The only reason I'm asking. I want to know how many years or months or days or how long of a time did you have in your whole life where you didn't really have much guidance or, like, you know, you didn't have the direction, you know?
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A
Yeah. I mean, I kind of count the first 18 years of my life as that.
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B
Yeah. I mean, not really, though, you know, because you had both parents.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You had school.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know, it's like, that's. That's guidance. It's legit guidance. Like some people. Some of us will say after high school, you know, you go to college, because that's sort of how. And then, bro, when I was done freaking. No guidance. Absolutely not.
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A
Yeah, there's. There's. The military is like, a whole nother level of guidance.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, it's full on guidance.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, which is very helpful.
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B
Yeah. And it's.
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A
It's. Honestly, it's kind of incredible.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, that you can just be. Just have no clue.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And you join the military and you have a job you have a paycheck. You have health insurance, you have dental, you have food every single day. You have a place to live. And you are considered to be a. By most people, to be like a contributor to. A positive contributor to society. It is truly incredible.
- [03:12]
B
Yeah.
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A
And it's amazing.
- [03:13]
B
Not to mention one of the more important parts. You have training and guidance. You don't know what to do. There's no confusion. Like, you don't know what to do. Ask this guy. He'll know. Ask somebody who's right in your.
- [03:24]
A
You don't even need to ask him. They're going to tell you they know you need guidance.
- [03:28]
B
Exactly right. And training, bro. You want to be.
- [03:31]
A
When I went to officer candidate school, so I was old, older, but, like, these women came in to talk to us, and they were. They were. And I was a married dude at the time, but they were talking to these young officer candidates, and they were saying that there's going to be hoochie mamas out. They said there's. And there's females in the class, too. Right. But these women didn't care. They were giving a warning to these young officer candidates. When you go on to town, there's gonna be hoochie mamas out there. They're looking and they're. They're, they're quoting, like, officer and gentleman. It was classic.
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B
Wait, who are these? Just.
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A
There were women that were teaching us some course on. Something like, some course on. I forget, maybe it was about, you know, the benefits of the Navy or the moving pro. It was like some administrative part of the Navy.
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B
It was still. Yeah, okay, so it was military stuff.
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A
Yeah, but they weren't military. They're civilians. But clearly. Again, I forget what they did, but they gave. They were supposed to talk to us for half an hour about whatever the subject was, but they talked to us for 20 minutes about Hoochie mamas. It was classic.
- [04:38]
B
Oh, but that does kind of bring up a good point where. Yeah, that is another thing that's something that the military won't train you and teach you and guide you with, like, how to deal with breakups. And, you know, girls like all this stuff. I mean, you know, they might have some good, maybe good sexual harassment guidance, you know, like, hey, let's avoid that in the workplace kind of a thing. But like, what?
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A
Yeah, they have that.
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B
Yeah, yeah, but like, how to deal with a breakup, like, bro. You know, so I'm just saying this. Good guidance.
- [05:02]
A
Yeah, but yeah, you're right, but because you have a mentor. Not, not just. Not A technical mentor. But you show up to work and you're like, all bummed out. Someone's gonna go, hey, what's up? What's up, Charles? And you go, man, my girlfriend just told me, oh, dude, don't worry about that. There's gonna be, you know, he's gonna be able to help you out. Yeah, like you're gonna get, you're gonna get to.
- [05:21]
B
Yeah, we'll say, oh, you know, they're.
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A
Gonna be like, hey, let's go down to Pacers, which is the local strip club. That's not gonna be the most healthy answer, but it's probably going to help Charles get through the night in the moment.
- [05:34]
B
Yeah, so. So as far as that, it's kind of rogue. So there's going to be varying levels of sophistication with that type of guidance.
- [05:40]
A
Yeah, true, true, true that.
- [05:42]
B
Okay, there you go. Well, hey, look, we got you this time. Nowadays, here's some guidance from Jocko, who's in the military, who got guidance kind of his whole life, really. Seen a lot, done a lot. Now he's going to give us some guidance.
- [05:56]
A
Yeah, let's go, let's go.
- [05:58]
B
Okay, first question. Okay. Hi, Jocko. I'm a single mom of five, former school teacher, now working at a medical school while earning my doctorate. I'm a blue belt in Jiu Jitsu. Because of your podcast. Run marathons and live with a strong personal code. Discipline, loyalty, sacrifice, and faithfulness. About a year ago, I fell in love with a man who seemed to embody those same values. He's a former Marine and Jiu Jitsu practitioner. We built a deep connection. He met my kids, asked me to move to his town, and talked about us living together and building a life. So I did it. I sold out for the mission. I moved to his city with my children, leaving behind a financially secure, hard earned life where I owned my home and had a functioning budget and the support of friends in church. Right as I arrived, he backed off, saying he needed space. Then told me we shouldn't talk or see each other for six months to test, quote, unquote, test if what he feels is love or just lust. He says this is about spiritual clarity. But waiting in silence has taken me from being a badass warrior to an exhausted, anxiety ridden shell of a person. I cry all the time and worry I'm nearing a total breakdown. I can hardly think about anything except trying to get this guy back. Now I'm operating in the negative, trying to find the. Trying to find a renter for my Living in a new place with no support network. I gave him literally, literally everything I had, and he's not sure if he wants me. What should I do now? Do I fight for this relationship? Do I wait in silence alone for six months for him? Thanks for everything you do.
- [07:43]
A
Do you wait in silence alone six months for him? No. No, you don't. This is very strange, right? This is a very strange scenario. It doesn't sound healthy. He's made some really weird decisions and asked you to do things, asking you to leave your. You got five kids, he's asking you to. And you own a home and you got a good job and asked you to give all that up only so that you could be left hanging like this. Yeah, I don't. I don't like this. And you know what's interesting is sometimes I'll discuss these, These, these questions with my wife. And, you know, seems like quite a bit of the time we get questions where the guy, a guy is asking us, should I stay with this girl who's done these. Whatever things they are. And I'm usually like, I think you have to have a very high standard for your relationships. A very high standard. When you see things that are red flags, you should, in most cases avoid those red flags, get away from that person. And sometimes my wife will be a little bit. She'll think I'm a little bit callous. And I think she has the tendency to want to support the female in the situation because she's a female. But I don't. To me, it's not male, female. It's like red flags are red flags. It doesn't matter whether you're male or female. If you're getting into a relationship with another human being and you see red flags, this is not going to get better. It's just not going to get better. Now, look, you see an orange flag, you know, you see a yellow flag, you know, okay, you know, we understand. But you see red flags straight up red, then think, this is not good. So in this situation, I would probably write him a letter and explain that this situation is unacceptable to you, and you are in the process of squaring things away and returning to your old life without him. And that's what I would do. And he has, you know, 12 hours to report back on hands and knees, begging and, you know, accepting that we're going to be together or leave. This guy is not who. What you think he is. You know, just. Just because someone's in the Marine Corps or the Navy or the SEAL teams or The Green Berets or whatever. It doesn't matter. There's freaking awful people in all those groups. Guy trains, Jiu Jitsu. Whatever means nothing. Can it be cool? Sure, it can be cool. It can definitely be cool. But it doesn't mean they're a good person at all. This is very strange behavior. Very, very strange behavior. And even if you wanted to, like, test the love or lust theory. Right. Just. Okay, cool. We won't, like, have physical intimacy, but we'll still hang out. Well, let's see. We'll see how that test goes. You know what I'm saying?
- [11:17]
B
Yeah, but.
- [11:18]
A
But just to say don't contact me for six months once you moved here, that's disrespectful. That's freaking manipulative. That's bad. You got five kids. And by the way, you sound pretty awesome. So keep doing awesome stuff. Keep running marathons, keep going to school, keep getting your doctorate, keep training Jiu Jitsu. And eventually a real man that lives. These values will find you. And if one doesn't, that's fine. You got five kids. You got. You got. You're awesome. You got plenty of stuff going on. You're gonna help a bunch of people. Being a doctor in the medical field, this guy does not seem to be the one. So I would give him an ultimate. You know, normally, I don't. I'm not an encourager of ultimatums, but this guy needs an ultimatum. Got 12 hours, dude. But even that, I'd be careful because he seems like the type of person that would know.
- [12:15]
B
Okay. Okay.
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A
And then he's going to do other weird. This doesn't sound good. That's what I got.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Red flags, avoid.
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B
Let me offer another perspective.
- [12:26]
A
Let's hear it, dude.
- [12:27]
B
No, either way, I think that's the move.
- [12:30]
A
Look, I tried to. I just real quick, I tried in my head, like, what if this dude is just like, okay, I need to make sure that this is 100%. I need to make sure. Let's wait six. Like, for instance, a dude's going on deployment and he meets a girl. You're like, hey, dude, just wait six months. Go on deployment, see if for real. Right? That's cool. I. I've given that advice before.
- [12:48]
B
Yeah, I agree.
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A
I have given that advice before. This is not the same thing. Yeah, but go ahead.
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B
Potentially. Yeah. So this, this is a possibility because there's a lot of variables, unknown. We'll call them. So you know how you said. And I agree that this is weird, strange behavior right? Where it's like, hell, yeah. They're hitting off all good. He's like, yeah, come move here. And, you know, all this. We talked about moving, you know, all this stuff, whatever. So. And I'm not saying she did this. I'm just saying these are things we have to consider because we haven't heard from the guy. So we don't know. Put bluntly, did she become, like, clingy, right? Like, too clingy? And I don't mean, like, just clingy, because she said, according to her, she was like, this. This kind of badass chick, right? Very desirable as far as, like, you know, what we're seeing, but then became like a shell of a person, right? After a while. So was she, like, so badass or whatever? And then the mere, like, thought or hint of getting together, she became, like, kind of like, she flipped and became sort of came off as desperate, right? And look, I'm not saying that's good, bad, nothing. I'm just saying, did she kind of change who she is and become less attractive? You see, I'm saying to this guy, so, like, if he's like. And who knows? Like, what if. What if they're talking about, yeah, maybe move in or whatever, and then she. All of a sudden, your shorts shows up at his door step.
- [14:13]
A
You did that. Then that could have triggered some of this behavior. But either way, your protocol needs to be the same.
- [14:19]
B
100.
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A
You know. That's correct.
- [14:20]
B
So basically, it goes, like. Let's say this were the case. Let's say I'm right, right? What I'm implying is, like, put bluntly, I'm not saying anyone did anything. I'm just saying this is something to consider where you're this baddest girl. You're going to school, you got jiu jitsu, the whole deal. Principled, the whole deal. And then the, you know, know, you got enamored with this guy and then folded into this. No, no, no, no. Real insecure, like, shell of a person. Your words or her words. And then she became that, right? No support, network, the whole thing. Just, like, you kind of became a different person. I don't know how attractive that is to, you know, to a guy if he's attracted to this original girl that you are. See, I'm saying so. I'm not saying that's good, bad, nothing like that. No judgment. I'm just saying what if? That's the dynamic. And like I said before, either way, that's the move. The move is like, hey, whether it's your fault, his fault, or whatever. The move is to go back and be badass. And if. If what I'm suggesting is the case, or what I'm introducing is the case, then he'll be like, oh, then maybe you'll have a. A chance to maybe kind of get back together. You see what I'm saying?
- [15:22]
A
Yeah.
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B
If you even want that. Yeah. What I'm saying is it. It's. It's not necessarily him being weird. It could be her kind of flipping the script just a little bit.
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A
Could be.
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B
You see him saying, yep, definitely pay.
- [15:36]
A
Attention in the future. You know, if you. He might have. You know, he might not have had as strong as feelings as you had. And then when you went full bore, like, oh, I'll move there. And then he. You got there and he's like, hold on a second. I expected a little resistance, you know, and here you are, sold your house or whatever. Move out here. Wait a second. I'm not ready for this.
- [15:56]
B
Exactly Right. So.
- [15:58]
A
Which again, your protocol needs to be the same. Like, walk away. Correct. And. And then just pay attention in the future. Make sure that you. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to Jocko underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this. We're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way. But we. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are. We're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's Jocko underground.com it costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email assistanceaco underground.com and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized Underground.