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- [00:00]
Jocko Willink
This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 173, sitting here with Echo Charles. We have received questions from you, the troopers, and we are going to provide, attempt to provide, in some cases answers, in some cases guidance, in some cases assessments to help you move forward. So here we go.
- [00:25]
Echo Charles
First question. Dear Jocko, My daughter died of SIDS a year ago. I found her in the crib, and despite doing CPR with paramedics, we couldn't save her. She was only three months old. Since then, my wife and I have felt emotionally dead. I'm in the Utah Army National Guard, and my A and G family showed incredible support, something I'll never forget. Last month, I received a hardship discharge. I wasn't ready to leave, but my readiness NCO assured me I can rec return when the time is right. In the meantime, my wife and I have grown distant. I lost my job, and now she says she doesn't want a romantic relationship anymore. I feel adrift. I want to return to the guard. I'm only 30 and still have more to give. But I'm torn not wanting to leave my family behind. Therapy alone isn't enough anymore. I need action, but I'm stuck. Any wisdom would mean a lot. Thank you.
- [01:31]
Jocko Willink
Well, it's. Obviously, it's a horrible story. I'm sorry to hear it. It's heartbreaking beyond anything that I could imagine. Terrible. And. And that being said, when it comes to loss, I have suffered losses. Not a child, clearly, but I've lost friends and brothers and teammates. And as I've talked about before, you know, this grief that you're feeling, it. It will come in waves. And in the beginning, the waves of grief, an emotion, will be overwhelming. And we're not used to that because we're adults and we're not used to not being able to control our emotions at all. So it's very, very shocking when they take control of us. But over time, they will dissipate. They will. And I've. Look, like I said, I've never lost a child. But I have been with the families of my friends, the parents of my brothers that I've lost in combat. And I've seen this happen. The. The pain will dissipate over time, and there's nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with that. But the pain will become less frequent and less powerful. Now, if it lasts for longer, if you know, if it. If it is impacting your life for longer than six months, then the general thought is, then you need some professional help. And you may have already sought some counseling or someone to talk through this stuff. But the first thing I would say to you is like, it's totally normal that you feel adrift. It's totally normal that your, your wife and you feel like, you know, distant from each other. Of course, you just went through a horribly emotional situation and you say your wife and you feel emotionally dead. Like these things are all normal. These things are normal. This is what loss does. And it does sound like you, and it sounds like you. And I'm assuming your wife too had been getting some kind of therapy, because you said you need more than therapy, which means at least you have some therapy. And I would, you know, keep working through that. But there's also like a pragmatic scenario that's happening right now. And that is, well, if you lost your job, you don't need compounding problems. In this case, losing your job leads to financial shortfalls, which leads to financial problems. So if you're, if you're, if the National Guard has offered your job back and you like doing that job, and you know the people, and the people have taken care of you before, I think it makes sense to go back to the National Guard, go back on duty. This is of course, providing there's not like a deployment on the horizon that you'd have to go. And this is provided that they got some kind of a job that's relatively going to keep you at home for a while and give you somewhat normal hours. Right. I understand it's the military. You know, you probably have to go in early, you probably have to say some nights, like that's the way it works. But as long as you're not going on a multi month deployment anytime in the near future, and the National Guard should be able to set you up with a job or a billet that, that's, that will provide you with that. And I think that will help ease any financial strain that might be on the way. It might get you focused on something else, which. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with it. You lost your child, that's awful. But your child would not want you to focus and dwell on that. So for you to go back to work and continue to go through counseling and continue to let these heavy waves of emotion somewhat subside over time, I think that is a good move. And then what you can do is you can position yourself where you can help your wife, because it sounds like your wife is, is obviously having a horrific time with this and she needs help and she needs your support and the best thing that you can do in my opinion, is provide her the stability, the financial stability, the work stability, the job stability, so that she can work through this. She lost her child. You lost your child. But it sounds like she needs more grace right now and more healing than you do. And that's the way it works out in this particular situation. And we try and support our spouse, we try and help them, as hard as that might sound. You give her as much support as you can. Give her the space that she needs, give her the time that she needs. Like I said, I have seen this grief cycle before, and things will get better. There will be some amount of relief that eventually starts to shine through. And eventually, as time passes, you. You will find happiness in the future. That's. That's what will happen. We remember, but we don't dwell. Right? We remember, but we don't dwell. You cannot dwell in the past. You simply cannot dwell in the past. There's nothing you can do about what has happened in the past. You can't dwell there. You can't stay there. You can't change it. You cannot change the past. And so if you focus on something that cannot be changed, you will go crazy trying to change it, trying to think through it, trying to reimagine it in a different way. It's not going to change. It is what it is, and it's horrible and it's awful. But you can't dwell there. You have to remember but not dwell. You have to let those waves dissipate. You have to let relief shine through a little bit. You have to open the door a little bit, and eventually you have to let happiness back into your heart. You have to. You have to let it back in there. You can keep it out if you want. You can. We, as human beings have the emotional power to focus on what we want to focus on. And we can force ourselves, we can force the happiness to stay away. But that is not healthy, and that is not what normal people do. Normal people, they feel the grief, they feel the pain, they feel the suffering. Everyone feels that your wife is feeling, that you're feeling that. But as time goes on, you have to release it. You have to. And you can. And you will find happiness in the future. And that's what I got. Stay strong, brother. It's harsh.
- [09:21]
Echo Charles
Next question. I've listened since the beginning, read most of Jocko's books, have a stable job, great wife and two kids. I've trained since age 12. I'm 47 now, a purple belt in jiu jitsu, and I love jockey fuel. I'm grateful for my life and give back to veteran causes. That said, I ran a business for nine years that failed. I'm just now in 2025 finishing off the loan. Thirteen years later, it set me back from buying a home and saving for retirement. And while I stay active and keep things together outwardly, I feel worn down inside. It's made me withdraw a bit from my family life. I often just want to be alone to think, read or train Jiu Jitsu. I don't dwell on the past and I'm not bitter. But I'd appreciate your perspective on how to fully move forward and regain my enthusiasm for being alive. Brother.
- [10:26]
Jocko Willink
Let's let's assess so that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jockounderground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this. We're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way. But. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's Jocko underground.com It costs $8.18 a month and if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email assistance@jockounderground.com and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.