Jocko Underground Podcast #182

Title: How to Finally Get Your Kids To do What You Want Them To
Date: September 15, 2025
Host: Jocko Willink with Echo Charles

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jocko Willink and Echo Charles dive deep into the challenge of parenting stubborn, independent-minded kids—specifically how to use discipline, respect, and leadership without breaking their spirit. A listener’s question about an argumentative 8-year-old daughter serves as the springboard for a conversation full of tough love, actionable insights, and stories from Jocko’s own parenting experiences.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Perils of Tyrannical Leadership (01:26 - 04:53)

• Jocko opens by identifying the classic mistake of trying to impose authority through force.
• He warns: “We didn’t write a book called like extreme tyrannical Leadership. Because that doesn’t work. Doesn’t work in a business. It doesn’t work on the battlefield. It won’t work with your family either.” (01:44 — Jocko)
• Parenting by coercion breeds resentment and can break a child's spirit, turning them into “obedient, you know, slaves”—which is not the goal.

2. Granting Ownership and Treating Kids as Capable (04:05 - 05:00)

• Instead of dictating every task, let children have input in their routines and choices.
• Jocko relays anecdotes about young kids' capabilities and the importance of letting them be responsible in age-appropriate ways: “An 8 year old is a capable human...let her come up with the chores.” (03:24 — Jocko)
• Don’t obsess over appearances or other parents’ judgments; focus on what matters for your home.

3. The Power of Respect, Trust, and Influence (05:02 - 06:48)

• The path to earning respect from your child is to give it first: “You want respect, you got to give her respect. You want her to trust you, you got to give her trust. You want to have influence over her, you better allow her to influence you.” (05:09 — Jocko)
• Kids need pragmatic explanations, not abstract lectures: “You can’t have dishes in your room because then we have flies and we have mice and we’ll have ants all over the house.” (04:19 — Jocko)

4. Guiding Without Crushing Individuality (06:51 - 10:23)

• Make discipline purposeful, but not oppressive—turn it into fun and learning, not misery:
  • “If you build a relationship with them and you make all those things fun instead of freaking misery, and discipline doesn’t become this horrible, overbearing tone...then it’ll be problematic.” (06:19 — Jocko)
• Allow kids to experience, fail, and succeed under their own power:
  • “You have to allow them to brush in the guardrails of failure. These are all things that you have to do. You have to teach them to think for themselves.” (07:21 — Jocko)

5. Detachment and Role Modeling (09:30 - 10:23)

• Recognize emotional triggers and practice detachment:
  • “You got to learn to detach. Take a step back, take a breath. Recognize that you are embarrassing yourself when you get mad.” (09:44 — Jocko)
  • Memorable moment: Jocko laughs at the daughter’s realness—“What’s the point? You get mad anyways.”—and calls it an embarrassing but honest check for the dad.
• Embrace strong-willed kids; don’t suppress that spark.
  • “Be stoked that you’ve got some strong, defiant, wild kind of kids. Those are the kids that become, you know, super. Be thankful that you don’t have unthinking automatons that are so scared of you that they just obey you out of fear.” (09:59 — Jocko)

6. Don’t Be a Devouring Parent (10:24 - 11:21)

• Jocko references “devouring mother,” warning against the urge to micro-manage every aspect of a child’s existence.
• The harder a parent tries to enforce total control, the fiercer the child’s rebellion over time.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Jocko, on pragmatic leadership:
  “We didn’t write a book called like extreme tyrannical Leadership. Because that doesn’t work. Doesn’t work in a business. It doesn’t work on the battlefield. It won’t work with your family either.” (01:44)

• Jocko, on ownership:
  “Let her come up with the chores and then, you know, maybe negotiate some kind of a salary. You got to explain the why. And the why has got to be pragmatic. And it’s got to be something they can understand too.” (03:30)

• Jocko, on respect and influence:
  “You want respect, you got to give her respect. You want her to trust you, you got to give her trust. You want to have influence over her, you better allow her to influence you. Trust, listen, respect, influence, and care. That’s what you gotta do.” (05:09)

• Jocko, embracing the benefits of a strong-willed child:
  “That person that you raise like a robot, ends up with a person without a mind...You have to open up their minds. You have to allow them to brush in the guardrails of failure...” (07:08)

• Echo, challenging parental assumptions:
  “You said something like, along the lines of, yeah, you know best. Right? The parent knows best. I don’t even think that’s true, girl. A lot of the time.” (11:21)

Key Takeaways

• Don’t rule your family like a dictatorship; it’s unsustainable and breeds long-term resentment.
• Treat kids with respect and give them opportunities for ownership.
• Give simple, practical reasons for requested action, not abstract ideas about “future discipline.”
• Value and nurture a child’s individuality—even defiance—within safe boundaries.
• Practice self-awareness and keep your cool. Getting angry makes you less effective as a role model.
• Let your children rebel against the right things—teach them how to direct their energy constructively, not just against you.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:26] The limits of imposing discipline—why “extreme tyrannical leadership” fails at home.
• [03:24] Letting kids own their chores and routines.
• [04:19] Explaining “the why” for rules in language kids understand.
• [05:09] Respect, trust, and influence—how to earn the right to lead.
• [06:19] Making discipline fun, not misery.
• [07:21] Allowing children the guardrails of failure.
• [09:44] The parental need for detachment and calmness.
• [09:59] Celebrating defiant, wild kids as future leaders.
• [10:24] The danger of being a “devouring” or “smothering” parent.
• [11:21] Echo’s counterpoint: sometimes parents don’t know best.

Summary in Jocko’s Tone

Treat your kids with respect. Let them have input. Don’t crush their spirit—nurture it. If you try to control every move, you raise a robot or a rebel; neither is what you want. Lead by example, keep your cool, and let your children grow into strong, thinking individuals. In the end, discipline is about building great relationships, not enforcing obedience.