Jocko Underground: How to Rebuild The Bridges You Burnt With Your In-Laws

Summary

Jocko Underground Podcast Episode 152 Summary

Title: Jocko Underground: How to Rebuild The Bridges You Burnt With Your In-Laws
Host: Jocko Willink and Echo Charles
Release Date: January 20, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 152 of the Jocko Underground podcast, retired Navy SEAL Jocko Willink is joined by Echo Charles to delve into the complexities of rebuilding strained relationships with in-laws. Drawing from their extensive backgrounds in leadership and discipline, Jocko and Echo provide insightful advice on handling volatile family dynamics, particularly when mental health issues like bipolar disorder are involved.

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Listener's Dilemma: Strained Relationship with In-Laws

The episode begins with a listener reaching out with a heartfelt dilemma. The listener recently began dating a woman and has developed relationships with her family. However, her family is experiencing significant hardships, compounded by her mother's bipolar disorder. The listener attempted to help financially by covering small bills but faced severe backlash when he didn't send $40 for his girlfriend's clothes—a gesture his girlfriend didn't even desire. This led to an explosive outburst from the mother, labeling him disrespectful and a bad boyfriend. In a moment of lost composure, the listener retaliated with a lengthy, confrontational message, resulting in him being banned from the family home.

Key Points:

• Volatile Family Dynamics: The presence of bipolar disorder contributes to erratic and unpredictable behavior.
• Emotional Decision-Making: The listener’s inability to detach emotionally led to a poor decision in responding to his mother-in-law’s outburst.
• Impact on Relationship: Strained relationships with in-laws can significantly affect the sustainability of the romantic relationship.

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Jocko's Strategic Advice on Rebuilding Bridges

Jocko emphasizes the importance of taking ownership and making sincere apologies as the first step towards mending the relationship.

Notable Quotes:

• Apology and Ownership:
  "[02:59] A: Well, I hope that you already fully apologized and took ownership of the situation. That would be the best first move."

• Patience in Rebuilding Relationships:
  "[06:10] A: Right. No one's like, oh, yeah, my, my, my wife comes from a broken family with a bunch of drug addicts and they're super stoked about it, you know? Super stoked."

Actionable Steps:

1. Sincere Apology: Craft a genuine apology, possibly supported by gestures like sending flowers, to demonstrate remorse.
2. Consistent Respect and Listening: Continuously treat the mother-in-law with respect, listen to her concerns, and show genuine care.
3. Understanding Family Dynamics: Recognize that rebuilding the relationship will require time and patience, especially when dealing with irrational or volatile behavior.
4. Emotional Detachment: Maintain calmness and avoid getting emotionally entangled in chaotic family situations. Jocko advises being a pillar of stability to navigate through the mayhem.
5. Gradual Trust Building: Focus on building trust over time by demonstrating reliability, respect, and understanding.

Additional Insights:

• Leadership Capital: Taking the moral high ground can help in gaining respect and rebuilding trust, even if it feels challenging initially.

  "[11:24] A: And what really kind of sucks is this is an opportunity for you to like gain a lot of leadership capital. Because she knew she was wrong and sent a text that was a partial apology..."

• Avoiding Escalation: Jocko advocates for de-escalation rather than engaging in arguments, emphasizing that maintaining composure is crucial in volatile situations.

  "[09:07] A: Maybe if they were physically attacking my, my wife and trying to beat her. Yeah, maybe like a high level of verbal abuse..."
  "[10:05] B: Right. None. Right. I mean I get. When do you like. Because technically, and I'm, I'm here with this guy trying to figure it out. Figure it out as well."

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Echo's Reinforcement and Practical Tips

Echo builds upon Jocko’s advice, highlighting the significance of actions over words and the importance of consistency in demonstrating respect and care.

Notable Quotes:

• Consistency in Actions:
  "[12:28] A: So you're not doing that."
  "[12:30] B: Yeah, no, no, no, no. Not at all."

• Leveraging Small Gestures:
  "[12:40] B: You know what, personally, with the flowers, like, you know, get flowers or whatever, I think that'll have more weight than you might think."

Practical Tips:

1. Small Gestures Matter: Simple actions like sending flowers can have a profound impact in showing goodwill and commitment to reconciliation.
2. Avoid Self-Praise: It’s essential to remain humble and avoid praising oneself while attempting to mend relationships.
3. Long-Term Commitment: Understand that rebuilding trust is a marathon, not a sprint, and requires unwavering commitment and consistency.

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Conclusion: Embracing Leadership and Discipline in Personal Relationships

Jocko and Echo conclude the episode by reinforcing the idea that leadership and discipline aren't confined to business or military contexts but are equally vital in personal relationships. By taking responsibility, maintaining respect, and demonstrating consistent positive behavior, it's possible to rebuild bridges burned with in-laws, even in the face of significant challenges.

Final Takeaways:

• Leadership in Personal Life: Apply the same principles of leadership and discipline learned in professional settings to navigate and improve personal relationships.
• Time and Patience: Recognize that repairing damaged relationships takes time, patience, and sustained effort.
• Emotional Mastery: Developing the ability to detach emotionally from volatile situations is crucial for making rational and respectful decisions.

Closing Remarks: The episode underscores the importance of resilience, strategic thinking, and disciplined action in overcoming personal relationship challenges. By embodying these principles, listeners can aspire to strengthen their familial bonds and foster healthier, more respectful relationships.

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Additional Information

For those interested in further exploring the topics discussed, Jocko and Echo encourage listeners to visit jockounderground.com to subscribe and support the podcast. Membership provides more direct interaction and communication with the hosts, fostering a stronger community of listeners committed to personal and leadership development.

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Transcript

[A]

This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 152, sitting here with Echo Charles, who sometimes thinks he needs to make his statements.

[B]

I'm doing the best I can over here.

[A]

You are? Very. Your attitude in that whole exchange.

[B]

Which one?

[A]

The one we just had before you hit record.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You really thought you were right? Hey, if I don't know, this is just a hint for future reference.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

What's the hint if I don't know I'm right? I don't. I don't. I won't even, like, remotely imply that I'm right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if I'm like, no, it's this, and you say, well, you're gonna be wrong.

[B]

First of all, I didn't say well, and I didn't say it like that either.

[A]

100.

[B]

Okay, 100. I see what you're saying. And look, look, my attitude was off. You're correct about that. But can an attitude just exist? It doesn't have to be right or wrong. See, I'm saying what I was saying was wrong.

[A]

Yeah, and your attitude is wrong as well.

[B]

It's incongruent for sure. Okay. All right. Nonetheless, we got to the bottom of it, and, hey, here we are.

[A]

So, yeah, there's no more question on that subject matter, but we got some questions from the people. All right, let's see what we got.

[B]

Yes. Okay, so first question. I recently started dating a woman my age, and I've had the opportunity to get to know her family, including her grandmother and her mother, 46 years old. I've stayed at their house a few times and have developed a relationship with them. Unfortunately, her family has fallen on hard times. While I'm not in a position to fully support them financially, I've tried to help by covering small bills when I can. Her mother is understandably under significant stress, and I've witnessed occasional outbursts involving yelling, screaming, name calling, and other erratic behavior. My girlfriend mentioned that bipolar disorder runs in the family, but I'm not a psychiatrist. Recently, I didn't Send my girlfriend $40 for the clothes that her mother wanted her to have for a new job. My girlfriend herself didn't want the clothes. This triggered one of her mother's outbursts, and she called me disrespectful, a bad boyfriend, and more. My ego got the better of me, and instead of staying calm, I made the mistake of attempting to, quote, unquote, put her in her place.

[A]

How'd that work out for you?

[B]

Her mother later sent me a text that I interpreted as a partial apology rather than Leaving it there, I responded with a lengthy message stating things like, I'm not going to tolerate that behavior and respect is earned, not given, so you should check yourself if you want respect. My response was disrespectful and inappropriate and she understandably took offense. I'm no longer allowed to stay at her house. I deeply care about my girlfriend and recognize that maintaining a positive relationship with her mother is crucial for long term success in our relationship. I failed to detach from the situation that my emotions take over and made a poor decision in the heat of the moment. How do I fix this if possible?

[A]

Well, I hope that you already fully apologized and took ownership of the situation. That would be the best first move. I maybe even write a letter, like apology letter, sorry, maybe some flowers, you know, something like that. If you're really trying to patch things up a little bit and then it's just going into the relationship building one on one, right? Trust, listen, respect, influence and care. That means, you know, you're taking care of their daughter, you're listening to what, you know, sorry, but I won't come over. Treating them with respect. This is not going to clean up easy. This isn't like, oh yeah, just tell her to give her the old 1, 2, 3 combo, you know, flowers, apology, and you know, a bottle of wine and everything will be good to go. It's not gonna work like that, dude. The mother in law is gonna hold. She might even hold a grudge indefinitely by the way. So keep that in mind. So if you do that, if you just are respectful and listen to what she has to say and you know, treat her with respect, like just all those things, over time you might be able to rebuild somewhat of a relationship. And I say might, a little emphasis on might because it sounds like there's some level of irrational behavior in this scenario. And irrational people do irrational things. And it's very difficult to rationalize with irrational people. Irrational people aren't thinking about the con. They're not thinking like we think. They're not thinking like a normal person. Like she, because you did that, you're a hateful person that's gonna beat their daughter. It's an irrational thought, but this is the kind of thought that she's gonna have. And there's nothing you knew to change your mind that is possible. So just, just. This is gonna be rough, you know what I mean? And, and it sounds like a volatile family, like a volatile family situation, which is, you know, just use caution there. Be prepared to have to detach often. Often. And by the way it sounds like you had a really hard time detaching. I mean, when you have time to reply to a text and you take the time to write the text and you didn't detach enough not to recognize what a bad situation you're going to put yourself in. That, that sucks because you're going to be having to do this all the time with a volatile family like this that's having hard times and has people that are bipolar in it. Like, this is chaos. You're going to have to be a pillar of calmness and rational behavior. And even that's not going to work at least 50% of the time because you've, you know, you're in a family that's chaotic and irrational. So you're going to have to not get wrapped up in the mayhem. Cannot get wrapped up in the mayhem. And you know, listen, family is part of the calculus when it comes to relationships, man. You ever heard the thing like, oh, she comes from a good family.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, of course. Comes from a good family.

[A]

So that's usually considered to be a positive thing.

[B]

Usually. Yeah.

[A]

Right. No one's like, oh, yeah, my, my, my wife comes from a broken family with a bunch of drug addicts and they're super stoked about it, you know? Super stoked.

[B]

No, they're not.

[A]

Now I'm not saying it comes from a perfect family. And by the way, there's people that come from terrible backgrounds that are the most awesome people, and there's people that come from awesome backgrounds that are terrible people. Right. Like, you know, there's a wealthy family with the mother and father intact and they're all great and they're lovey dovey and they go to church every Sunday and their freaking kid is a psycho. Right? That happens.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

There's also the alcoholic dad that's totally abusive and crazy and the, you know what, it's just total mayhem. And the kid is 100% squared away, so that totally happens. But you need to think about that. Think about, like, what are you seeing? What are you seeing in this scenario? Is the, is the daughter like, yeah, my, my mom will never be like her or does she emulate her behavior? You need to pay attention to those things because, you know, when you, if this is a long term thing, you're getting married, you're marrying the whole family. You're marrying the whole family. Now you can marry the, you can, you can marry the family, but keep the family out of it. That's possible. Might not go over too well, but just think about it, man, just think about it. Yeah, that's what I got, man. It's gonna take time. You messed up. I'm not a miracle worker, you know what I mean?

[B]

I know what you mean.

[A]

Like, this is not, this is not an easy to save situation. A bipolar, irrational mom that you pissed off. It's not gonna go over well. And by the way, you pissed them off in like a written way, like a documented way. Like they'll go back and read through that. Remember when you told me this? Like, you really screwed up, so even you know it, you say my response was disrespectful, inappropriate. She took offense. Yep, exactly. So it's gonna take time, dude. Time. Quite a bit of time in my estimation.

[B]

Do you. When you and your current wife, when you guys were dating, did you meet her parents early on?

[A]

I mean, early on. I mean, I met him probably a year into the whole gig. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Actually that's kind of late on.

[A]

Really late maybe. I mean they lived in England. Here in America.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it wasn't like we were walking down the street.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, gotcha. Can you think of off the top of your head any. Not good, but any we'll say for lack of better acceptable reason to get into an argument with your mother in law or girlfriend's parents.

[A]

Maybe if they were physically attacking my, my wife and trying to beat her. Yeah, maybe like a high level of verbal abuse. But even that, even that when you say I. I wouldn't obviously if my wife was being beaten by someone, I would intervene and save her and you know, handle the situation. But even like a yelling, screaming parent, I'd be like, okay, we can leave now. I would be. Conflict would be the lowest form of my response. The least probable form of my response.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My response would be de escalation and avoid and probably leave. Not storm off. But like, hey, we're, you know, we're head back. I call from work. I got to get back early. So we're going to leave tonight.

[B]

So perfect then. So that. So a way to determine what to establish terms will say. Get into argument means not de escalation because de escalation is literally the opposite of getting into an argument. Right.

[A]

So in whatever way.

[B]

Right. None. Right. I mean I get. When do you like. Because technically, and I'm, I'm here with this guy trying to figure it out. Figure it out as well. Thankfully, I've never got into argument. Never saw any value in getting any kind of like escalation did Argument. Yeah.

[A]

With anyone.

[B]

Well, I can't say with anyone, but.

[A]

I mean, but, but honestly, when's the last time you had an actual argument with someone?

[B]

Yeah, fully and as an adult. Especially after this outfit was established. Yeah. No, no, like, no, why don't you go right.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like when's the last time you did that? Like no, why don't you do it? You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah, I don't know.

[A]

Well, I'll tell you what, you know what I mean?

[B]

I'm not going to tolerate this.

[A]

I, I, I, you listen to me. Like you see what I'm saying? Like this stuff is crazy talk.

[B]

I felt weird just saying it as a hypothetical.

[A]

So yes, I'm not going to tolerate this.

[B]

Yeah. So it's kind of like if you just have that consciously to be like there is no circumstances with very few exceptions in the world to escalate or should I say not to not de escalate the situation. Just know that we are de escalating, de escalate 100%. 100%.

[A]

100%.

[B]

No matter how disrespectful, no matter how much you think, what did you say? Respect should be earned and yeah, I'm not going to tolerate this. Like all this stuff. Yeah, it kind of feels like it. Yeah. Right. I can't find it.

[A]

And what really kind of sucks is this is an opportunity for you to like gain a lot of leadership capital. Because she knew she was wrong and sent a text that was a partial apology, which is, that's an apology. Look, it might not be well crafted, it might not be fully sincere, but there's some portion she knew she was wrong and you have the opportunity to be a bigger man. Take the moral high ground and be like, hey, all understood. Just, you know, I'm glad it all worked out. You know, you're right. You know, like if there's anything she needs, you know, I'm here and those clothes, would she look great in those clothes and you know, I mean whatever. The thing is you can just take that moral high ground and just be come off like a better person.

[B]

Here's actually a tip which I said a long time ago, but I think it's very important to remember you can't say you're taking the moral high ground. You can't.

[A]

Oh no. Being the bigger person.

[B]

So watch out for that. Cuz some people, that's how. Right.

[A]

You know what?

[B]

I'm going to take the high ground.

[A]

I'm going to take the moral high ground.

[B]

You jammed it up.

[A]

That's right up there. With. Calm down. You know what I mean?

[B]

I think you might be right about that.

[A]

So we're not doing that.

[B]

I do.

[A]

We're not praising ourself.

[B]

Yeah, no, no, no, no. Not at all.

[A]

At the expense of the other person.

[B]

Yeah, fully. Like, yeah. When you're like, I'll take the high ground.

[A]

I'll be the bigger person.

[B]

You know what that means?

[A]

Yeah, you're the smaller.

[B]

You're the smaller person, by the way, in this scenario. Yeah. Yeah. Meanwhile, I' get back on your goods. I don't know, bro. I don't know. I think personally, with the flowers, like, you know, get flowers or whatever, I think that'll have more weight than you might think.

[A]

Okay. I thought you were gonna say. I thought you. When? As soon as you said that. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to Jocko underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this. We're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way. But we. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are. We're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's jockounderground.com it costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email assistanceaco underground.com and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized Underground.