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- [00:00]
A
This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 177. Sitting here with Echo Charles. 177 was my basic underwater demolition seal class. Just FYI. 177.
- [00:14]
B
What was your number in the back? Your head, helmet, whatever.
- [00:16]
A
There's no number. You have your name Willink. But the number on my humble is 177.
- [00:21]
B
So everyone. Is that how it is now? Yeah, so everyone has seen how it is now.
- [00:25]
A
That's how it's been.
- [00:26]
B
Well, I don't know. I didn't go to Bugs, actually.
- [00:28]
A
You know, you might be right that way back in the day in. At airborne school, you had, like, a number that was your assigned specific number. But no in buds you for the whole time that I've known you put your bud's class number on your helmet. Mine was 177.
- [00:47]
B
Okay, so when they talk about, like JB's talking about, you know, her and Flanner like, doing something, cleaning the helmet over the weekend and making sure that that number is just the class number. And everyone has the same number.
- [01:00]
A
Yep, everyone has the same number. Mine was 177.
- [01:03]
B
177. There you go. Willink on the back.
- [01:06]
A
Yeah, I still got. I still got, you know, some bros from 177 that's still hit and they'll, like, sign off a text like sevens, you know what I'm saying?
- [01:18]
B
Yeah, that's kind of hard.
- [01:20]
A
Yeah.
- [01:21]
B
Yeah, that's pretty dope.
- [01:22]
A
So that's pretty funny. But right on. Let's get into it. Let's. Let's answer some questions. Let's try to give some people some guidance, some direction, some advice. What do we got? First question.
- [01:34]
B
First question. I served in the army for seven years, including a deployment to the Alhambar province, 2006. 2007, where the 3 509th wreaked havoc on a Kiz. Aqiz.
- [01:52]
A
Aqiz. Yeah.
- [01:53]
B
Okay.
- [01:53]
A
Al Qaeda in Iraq.
- [01:55]
B
Okay. I'm proud of my time in the military. However, towards the beginning of my service, I failed Special Forces selection. Later my enlistment, I trained up to return to sfas, but. But then at the last minute, decided to ets. What's the ets?
- [02:12]
A
Get out.
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B
Okay.
- [02:14]
A
And SFAS is Special Forces Assessment Selection.
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B
What does ETS like stand for?
- [02:19]
A
I don't know.
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B
Okay.
- [02:21]
A
End of time service and tour service. Something like that.
- [02:24]
B
Okay. So I decided to ETS and marry my girlfriend, who I'm married to today. I have a good career, solid marriage, four kids, great friends, and still get after it daily. That being said, I'm occasionally haunted by the Green Beret I never earned. Have you ever had something that you did not achieve that lives in your mind and distracts you? What is a good mental model to deal with this and keep it from taking me off the path?
- [02:50]
A
Well, first of all, thanks for your Service in the third of the 509th. Man, what a storied unit. Geronimo. And during that deployment, that 0607 deployment, working in Fallujah, working in Karma, additional work in Babel, though, you guys upheld be. You guys completely upheld the outstanding reputation, the historical reputation that your forefathers built. And I know you guys fought hard. I know you faced IDs, mortar, snipers, the whole nine yards. I know that you in your battalion took significant casualties. You lost some heroic soldiers. I know that your unit received the Valorous Unit Award. I mean, the citation for that. Here's a little quote from the citation from your Valorous Unit Award. Operating outside the wire, the paratroopers encountered many obstacles, including firefights with insurgents, improvised explosive devices, car bombs, and explosively formed projectiles. They also captured numerous suspects, extremists and terrorists considered to be high value targets, performing countless operations day and night on the ground and by air assault. Throughout their deployment, many of the paratroopers received decorations for valor, achievement and combat wounds. Brother, you. You may not have earned the Green Beret, but trust me, you earned your place as a warrior, as a patriot, and as a man. You did everything that we did as SEALs. And I, that's like. That's like, at a minimum, like, there's Green Berets and seals and Rangers that have never even seen combat. There's Green Berets, Rangers and seals that definitely didn't see as much as you did. And you should be damn proud of what you were able to do. And you were lucky to be able to do it. You were able to do it. And it sounds like you came home in one piece. Thank God and just be proud of that man. And look, the Special Forces is an outstanding community and they're outstanding at their job, at their specific job. You know, this is something I explained when, like, for in a SEAL platoon, there's officers and there's enlisted guys and the officer's job, he. Look, he's in the leadership position, but his job is to, like, help oversee the briefing, help make the calls in the situation, help do risk assessments. Well, the radioman's job, he has a job, too. It's help get the communications plan ready, help prep all the radios, make communications when it's time to talk to somebody, and the medic has a job. Hey, make sure you know what the Casa Vac plan. Like, everyone has a job, and all those jobs are important, and no job is more important than the other job. And so Special Forces, a Special Forces, Green Berets are outstanding at their job. It's an outstanding community. And guess what? The 3rd or the 509th is an outstanding unit, and you're outstanding at their job. So you did your job in an outstanding unit in an outstanding way. You performed outstanding. So, you know, you. You ask something like, is there anything. What was it? I don't know if it was regret or anything. I didn't achieve, dude. Of course we all look back and wish we did more, right? Always, you know, always. You always wish back. Wish you could go back and do more. And I. I've said before, in similar situations to. The topic that you're bringing up is like, you know, when I would have felt like I did enough when I was dead on the battlefield. You know what I mean? Like, you only did enough if I would only feel like I did enough if I was dead. You know what I'm saying? And that's a. I'm being facetious, but that's the feeling, right? So do I wish I could have done more? Absolutely. But I did what I could. And you did what the nation needed you to do. You went above and beyond what the nation needed you to do. So be proud. Keep living an awesome life as a husband, as a dad, and as an upstanding member of society who earned this freedom, who fought for this freedom and paid for this freedom through selfless service. That's what you've done. Be proud of that. It's awesome. The fact that you weren't a Green Beret. I mean, Hackworth wasn't a Green Beret. Chesty puller wasn't a Green Beret. Lewis Puller wasn't a Green. Like, doesn't. It's. It's no factor. It's no factor at all, man. You done good. Be proud. That's what I got.
- [07:54]
B
Yeah, it's. I understand this, but. And so I used to play football. You know this. And I. In a lot of ways, playing football on a football team is like, a good analogy for this kind of stuff. Like, any time you have a group of people trying to, like, achieve something because everyone on the football, like, each position has a very specific job, and it's this for a specific reason. And those positions are based on people's specific, like, capabilities and Attributes, right? So you get receivers on the outside, they're usually fast and can catch and all this stuff, right? And down the line. So here's the thing that we can kind of run into. Let's. Okay, so you know what, you know football, right? So you know what a line man is, right? You know an offensive lineman is. Okay, so you compare enough o line, right? We'll say a guard or a tackle. We'll say a guard, actually a tackle, right? Oh, tackle. And then you compare that to a wide receiver or a quarterback. Joe Montana, right? Quarterback. Like these famous guys getting, throwing touchdown passes, receivers making touchdowns, three touchdowns in a game, everybody holding them up, you know, making the game winning catch or the throw, right. Meanwhile, the tackle is doing such an important job, literally, like the tackles in the line, if they don't do a good job, you don't win, you don't score, you don't the game. Like you cannot win. Of course, that goes for everyone down the line, right? But from the outside, the tackle's job is not glorious. It's not like it doesn't get the cool limelight and the cool like freaking glitter and all that stuff. Similar to like the Navy SEALs. It went in, I got all this, whatever. And you always say, just like how you say, like, hey, you had a job to do and you did your job. You know, even like a, I don't know, the logistics guy or something, right? He did his job or it's kind of the same deal, bro. Like the logistics guys, if they don't do a good job, you jam up the whole system. And we cannot win facts. But sometimes when we don't get the glory, you know, I'm in o tackle, I ran like a 7 second freaking 40, 40 yard dash. And you know, I didn't make the receiver, you know, like position, the depth chart. And they put me at tackle, but I was like one of the best tackles ever. Like freaking never missed a. Blah, blah, blah, right? But I had these dreams of being a wide receiver. I've never caught a touchdown in my whole life. I feel regretful. See how crazy that sounds?
- [10:16]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [10:17]
B
So it's kind of the same thing.
- [10:19]
A
Yep.
- [10:19]
B
Yeah. But that limelight kind of gets in your eyes a little bit, you know?
- [10:23]
A
Yeah. I don't even think I, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna pin the. Hey, I wanted the limelight on this guy. He probably just feels like he could have offered more. And plus he, he didn't make it. When he did go, you know what? I'm saying, what did he say? He failed. He failed Special Force selection. So, like, it's one of those things you always want what you can't have type scenario. So he's got some of that going on.
- [10:47]
B
Yeah. And limelight. I know. And that may have came off a little bit inaccurate, you know, like, not congruent or whatever. But it's. It's an analogy, though, because let's face Special Forces, like, freaking Sonic Special for that. Some cool stuff to the public eye. Yeah, that's limelight. That's the limelight I'm talking about. I'm not talking about, like, he deserves more medals than you because he was more important. And he's got, you know, it's like, it's slightly different than that. I'm saying from a perspective, just. It's more of an idea. From a very specific perspective is what it is.
- [11:17]
A
But I think for him, he just. I think a little bit of this is just, you want what you can. That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jockounderground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's Jocko underground dot com. It cost $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email assistance, Jocko underground.com and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized Underground.