Jocko Underground: Should Dogs Be Allowed On The Jiu Jitsu Mats? The Debate.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jocko Underground #207

Episode Title: Should Dogs Be Allowed On The Jiu Jitsu Mats? The Debate.
Date: March 30, 2026
Host(s): Jocko Willink & Echo Charles

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jocko Willink and Echo Charles dive into a practical—and divisive—debate in Jiu Jitsu culture: should dogs be allowed on the mats? Drawing from listener questions, personal experience, and their characteristic blend of discipline and pragmatism, they unspool the pros, cons, and cultural nuance surrounding pets in the gym, touching on cleanliness, personal boundaries, and gym etiquette.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Listener Question (00:24)

• Prompt: “Could you tell me what your opinion is about Jiu Jitsu coaches bringing their dogs to the gym?... What's your take?”
• Kicks off an exploration of both personal preference and objective concerns about dogs in Jiu Jitsu training spaces.

2. General Attitude Towards Dogs in the Gym (00:47)

• Jocko: Enjoys the presence of dogs at gyms in general, but makes a distinction about where they should be.
  • “We used to have a dog named Victory at the Victory Gym, but it was only downstairs.” (00:58)
  • Both hosts agree that dogs actually on the mats poses problems.
  • Concerns include: dirt transfer, possibility of tearing the mats with claws, and hygiene.
  • Quote: “The dogs being on the mat is kind of... that doesn't seem like a great idea to me.” (01:02)

3. Cleanliness and Health Risks (01:20)

• Jocko: Emphasizes the risk of diseases like ringworm, staph, and other infections that can thrive on mats.
  • Cleanliness is a huge variable:
    • “If there's a steady state of general cleanliness in your gym and there's a dog there, cool. If there's a general state of, like, not cleanliness in the gym and there's a dog there, doesn't seem like it'd be cool.” (02:19)
• Even the cleanest gyms can experience outbreaks due to the nature of the activity and shared surfaces.

4. The Family Dynamic & Trust in the Owner (02:56)

• Echo: Focuses on the social aspect, noting that in small gyms, dogs can feel like family.
  • “Let's say you have a little jiu jitsu gym, small one, and everyone's... It's just like one big family, right? The dog's part of that family.” (02:58)
• The culture of the club and the dog’s behavior/cleanliness are determining factors.

5. Jocko’s Personal Home/Gym Policy (03:34)

• Jocko:
  • Has a dog at home—dog allowed on bed and couch but not on the home dojo mats.
    • “My dog does not go on my mats, because I have mats in my house too... That’s a dojo, right? Dog not allowed on those mats.” (03:51)
  • The issue is mainly dog hair and the deep physical contact with mats versus furniture:
    • “Your personal intimacy with the mats is more than your personal intimacy with your bed...” (04:37)
    • Jocko jokingly clarifies: “I don’t take my face and grind it into my bed the way I grind [on the mat].” (04:47)

6. Mat Contact vs. General Hygiene (04:50)

• Echo & Jocko: Reflect on the disconnect between what’s acceptable on the mat versus in personal spaces.
  • Everyone is forced to overlook a lot of unknowns in terms of mat hygiene:
    • “You don't grind your... We train here, though. You know how much other people grind. You wouldn't let other people jump in your bed. You see what I'm saying?” (05:33)
• Training requires a kind of “mental disconnect” from cleanliness concerns.

7. Objectivity About Hygiene and Personal Boundaries (06:20)

• Both hosts emphasize the unavoidable reality that Jiu Jitsu mats are not sterile—even with rules and cleaning.
  • “We don’t know the history of every single person, and their feet and their fungus... we literally don't know.” (06:34, Echo)
• Discusses the ritual of “suspending concern” as a necessary mindset.
  • Quote: “Our state of mind when we go on the mats is kind of that of like, I'm going to suspend my concern for that... we're just going to trust.” (07:02, Echo)

8. Factoring In Other People's Experiences (08:10)

• Echo points out not everyone is, or should be, equally comfortable with dogs on the mats.
  • Consider allergies, traumatic experiences, cleanliness standards.
  • “I don't find it exceptionably reasonable to expect everyone to be okay with it... If someone's like, hey, I don't like that stuff, probably understand.” (08:52)

9. Bottom Line: Find Your Vibe (09:14)

• Jocko: Recommends finding a gym that matches one’s standards, comfort level, and culture regarding pets and cleanliness.
  • Quote: “You got to find a gym with your vibe... Gotta find a different gym if that guy's rolling with that dog on the mat.” (09:14)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jocko (on home rules):
  “Of course my dog goes on my bed. My dog goes on my couch. My dog does not go on my mats... There's something interesting about that.” (03:38)
• Jocko (mat versus bed):
  “Your personal intimacy with the mats is more than your personal intimacy with your bed.” (04:37)
• Echo (on group trust):
  “If it's a behaved dog that's not doing, you know, coloring outside of the lines as far as behavior goes, brah, I’m down for it. And I trust. I'm not talking about me. I'm saying you can't be surprised when other people don't like that stuff.” (08:18)
• Echo (on communal mystery):
  “We don’t know the history of every single person, and their feet and their fungus in their freaking hands...” (06:34)
• Jocko (ultimate recommendation):
  “You got to find a gym with your vibe.” (09:14)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:24 — Listener Question Introduced: Should dogs be allowed on the mats?
• 01:02 — Jocko’s Initial Stance: “Doesn't seem like a great idea...”
• 02:19 — Clean vs. Dirty Gyms: Dogs only OK if cleanliness is maintained.
• 03:51 — Jocko’s Home Dojo Policy: Dog allowed on couch, not on mats.
• 04:37 — Intimacy with Mats vs. Bed/Couch.
• 06:34 — Hygiene Unknowns: Addressing the “ick” factor in Jiu Jitsu.
• 08:52 — Respecting Others’ Boundaries: Why not everyone may be ok with dogs on the mat.
• 09:14 — The Bottom Line: Find a gym “with your vibe.”

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Summary & Takeaways

Jocko and Echo strike a balance between pragmatism, personal comfort, and respect for community norms. While both have affection for dogs and are not bothered by dogs at the gym in principle, they draw the line at allowing animals on the mats, citing hygiene, risk of disease, and the deep physical contact intrinsic to Jiu Jitsu. The ultimate takeaway? Know your personal standards, respect others’ boundaries, and find a gym culture that aligns with your own.

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For those looking to hear more, visit jockounderground.com for the full, subscriber-only experience.

Transcript

[A]

This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 207, sitting here with Echo Charles, and we are going to review some questions from the field.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On the front lines where the rubber meets the road. You all are out there troopers getting after it. We will provide you with some answers, some courses of action, some recommendations to help you get through these challenges that you're facing. That's where we're at. Let's go.

[B]

All right, first question from the field. Could you tell me what your opinion is about Jiu Jitsu coaches bringing their dogs to the gym? I saw one time a dog was free to step on the mats at one of the gyms I went to recently. Another instance I saw a dog was allowed to sleep on a special rug, but not on the mats. What's your, what's your take?

[A]

I like dogs. You know, that's kind of part of it. So, you know, having a dog in school pretty, it's pretty, pretty much like, seems to be fine with me. We used to have a dog named Victory at the Victory Gym, but it was only downstairs.

[B]

Yeah. Not on the mats.

[A]

Not on the mats. You know, I, I think the, the dogs being on the mat is kind of. That's, that's doesn't seem like a great idea to me. You know, not. Look, the dogs are going to be bringing dirt onto the mat because they don't wear shoes. So now when they walk on the mat, they're just going from the regular floor to the mat. You know, we wear flip flops or whatever, slippers when we go off the mat. And do we try and keep it as clean as we can? And also dogs have claws, so now they're just cutting up the mat. So that doesn't seem too smart. And I think a lot of this just has to bend with the school. Man. In a little school youl could see it's not that big of a deal. They're, they're, you know, but if you have a bigger school now, all of a sudden you got a dog running around, that seemed like it could be a little bit problematic. Overall, I guess I'm okay with it, but it's, I'm also just kind of open minded in general. Not many things really bother me. Yeah, Jiu Jitsu is a place where disease can spread, right? Ringworm, staph, infections, there's all kinds of nasty stuff that can be on the mats. If you're in a gym that is. Doesn't have issues with that regularly. And look, there's gyms, like the cleanest gyms in the world, they can have problems like hospitals have problems with staph infections. You know, these things can happen, but, you know, usually if they happen, you kind of round things up and get control over them. So if there's not a steady state of. If there's a steady state of general cleanliness in your gym and there's a dog there, cool. If there's a general state of, like, not cleanliness in the gym and there's a dog there, doesn't seem like it'd be cool. So I think if the gym is clean and it's. Then it's really no factor to have the dog hanging out. And if the gym is dirty, then the. The dog doesn't probably help out. That's kind of where I'm at.

[B]

No, not really. Yeah, you're right. You said something there. That was actually the real point where you're. Like, you said, not many things bother me, and I get it, man. And I'm actually with you with the dogs. Like, to me, I. I pretty much trust the owner. And, you know, if the owner seems pretty squared away, because let's face. I mean, lately you got a little. Let's say you have a little jiu jitsu gym, small one, and everyone's. It's just like one big family, right? The dog's part of that family. See what I'm saying? Like, even if you go into someone's home and the dog's part of the family, he's up on the bed, the couches inside, you know, outside dog or whatever, like, bro, that dog has a lot of leeway. And you kind of.

[A]

Just so you know, I think this is an important. Good point. I don't even know what it means yet. I have a dog at my house. Of course my dog goes on my bed. My dog goes on my couch. My dog does not go on my mats, because I have mats in my house too. Yeah, yeah, Legit mats. You see my mats, That's a dojo, right? Dog not allowed on those mats.

[B]

I understand.

[A]

So there's something interesting about that, right? Like, I'll straight up just have my dog on my couch. On me.

[B]

Yeah, straight up.

[A]

But not on the mats. Well, so there's a little indicator.

[B]

Yeah, it is. And again, that just goes back to your thing that your personal preference, whatever that's based on, you know, that's on you, and that's your. Your thing, and I respect it pretty deeply. But nonetheless, it's still you. That's your personal preference. Actually, let me ask you, why is he not allowed on the map.

[A]

Hair. I think it's more hair.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like, you know, just hair on the mat.

[B]

So if he didn't shed for whatever magical reason he would be allowed on

[A]

the mat, probably I would be more inclined to let him on the mats. But also, like, maybe it's because on the mats, let's face it, your. Your personal intimacy with the mats is more than your personal intimacy with your bed. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't. I don't take my face and grind it into my bed the way I grind.

[B]

Or do you?

[A]

No, I don't. So you're not in that, like, full.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Just chaotic. Just contact.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, like, you can't lay in a bed or a couch as aggressively as you're laying on a. On a freaking mat. Like, it's just. It's happening, dude. So. Yeah, that. I think that's. I think that's part of it, you know?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, but when you read your

[A]

dog, go on your mats.

[B]

My job, them. Yeah, yeah. At first there was my dog. Small, but. And it does not shed at all. Whatever. At first. Yeah, that was a rule. No dogs on the mat. You know? And then I was like, what am I. Yeah, the mat's outside, by the way, so. Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You got trees.

[A]

Trees and insects and rats, and everything's on your mask.

[B]

They have access, we'll just say, you know, but nonetheless. But, yeah. So, no, really, the point is. And I'm just trying to get to the bottom of how this stuff works, because it's like, yeah, that's true. You don't grind your. This. And, you know, like. So you're saying this, but you. We train here, though. You know how much other people grind. You wouldn't let other people jump in your bed. You see what I'm saying? So it's kind of like, okay, cool. It could be it, but maybe not

[A]

do, like, a mental disconnect. When you're training Jiu jitsu, you just have to cast that stuff.

[B]

It's a different.

[A]

If. It's gonna freak you out, man. If. If the. If the dirtiness is gonna. And the hygiene is gonna freak you out. Jiu Jitsu is just not. You're not gonna be able to do it if you can't set aside those fears of just disgustingness. Yeah, it's gonna be a problem.

[B]

I think that might be the. The fundamental concept that you have to evaluate. It's how grossed out are you gonna get and what are you gonna allow to gross. You Out. Okay, so let's say. Because really, when you go into. Especially Victory, we got a lot of guys, basically. And, yeah, we clean the mats every single time. I get it. That's true. But again, it's gonna come down to the. The idea. So we don't know what's being dragged on this mat. We don't know the history of every single person and their feet and their fungus in their freaking hands, where their hands are going and how often they wash them and what they're wiping and doing all this stuff. Like, we don't know. We literally don't know.

[A]

We may not want to know.

[B]

In fact, if you were to evaluate it from a logical standpoint, there's probably a lot of various germs and freaking bacteria and stuff that we might not want to. Yeah, exactly. Right. We might not want to know. You know, so it's kind of like, okay, we do. Our state of mind when we go on the mats is kind of that of like, I'm going to suspend my concern for that. The details of that, and just kind of just, you know, kiss it up to God in a way where it's like, we're just going to trust. We'll put in some rules that make us all feel better for sure. Like, no, no bare feet in the bathroom and all this stuff. And does that help? Yeah, maybe, maybe not. But at the end of the day, it's like you're still contending with things that a lot of times we don't want to really recognize consciously. Right? Okay, there's that. Okay, so I think that's like the base, the baseline, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Because this is real. Let's face it. There's a lot going on under the hood in this whole situation. Now we're introducing dogs on the mat. Now, consider that little formula for the dogs, bro. We don't know where that dog is, and dogs get crazy sometimes. You see what I'm saying? Like, as far as what they get into, not to mention their own bodies, not to mention their own. And yeah, we reread on the Internet, and this guy. That guy says things that make us feel better, like, oh, the dog's mouth is the cleanest mouth of the thing of the animal kingdom or whatever. But, like, probably you don't know. We don't know where that dog's been. Right? So. And I'm not saying I wouldn't allow it. Quite frankly. I. I trust the owner. Like, if the owner is like, yeah, dogs on the man. This is my gym. Like, dog, I'm like, yeah, because I like dogs. I think for. If it's a behaved dog that's not doing, you know, coloring outside of the lines, as far as behavior goes, brah, I. I'm down for it. And I trust. I'm not talking about me. I'm saying you can't be surprised when other people don't like that stuff. See, I'm saying, whether it be the hair, whether it be just a dog that I'm not used to, some people, they have traumatic experiences. That's on this side of the spectrum. I get it. But some people, they have traumatic experiences with dogs now, they're nervous. So you can't be like. Put it this way. I don't find it exceptional, exceptionably reasonable to expect everyone to be okay with it. Seems so. If someone's like, hey, I don't like that stuff, probably understand.

[A]

Yeah. That's why you got to find a gym with your vibe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're a little bit of a no germs vibe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Gotta find a different gym if that guy's rolling with that dog on the mat. If you're. If you're all down. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jockounderground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this. We're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way. But we. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are. We're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's Jocko underground.com it costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email assistanceclenderground.com and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.