Jocko Underground: Struggling with Measuring Up to Your Fiance's Ex.

Summary

Jocko Podcast: Underground 212

Episode Title: Struggling with Measuring Up to Your Fiance's Ex
Date: May 4, 2026
Hosts: Jocko Willink & Echo Charles

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jocko Willink and Echo Charles tackle a listener’s deeply personal question about insecurity and comparison in relationships. Specifically, the listener feels inadequate after learning his fiancée previously dated a Navy SEAL. Jocko and Echo draw on their personal experiences, popular culture, and principles of discipline to offer actionable guidance on overcoming comparison, jealousy, and insecurity—reminding listeners to focus on what truly matters in a partnership.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener’s Situation: Feeling Inferior After Learning About Fiance’s Ex

• [00:22] The listener, "Jack," confesses feelings of inadequacy after discovering his fiancée once dated a Navy SEAL.
• He wonders how to "accept my newly realized inferiority" and regain focus on being a good partner and future father.
• Notes that he’s an “average purple belt” in jiu jitsu, but struggles even there.

2. Debunking the Myth of the SEAL Superhero

• [01:12] Jocko Willink:

  "Being a SEAL doesn't make you a good person, doesn't make you a good fighter, doesn't mean that you're smart. It doesn't really mean that you have any positive qualities other than perhaps you will keep going in rough situations. But even that's suspect... Seals are people."

  • Not all Navy SEALs are superhuman; they're individuals with strengths and weaknesses like everyone else.
  • Dating or being associated with a SEAL doesn’t elevate someone’s worth or create a romantic “myth.”
• Jocko points out the high divorce rates among Navy SEALs (~90%), suggesting that excelling in one intense area doesn't guarantee relationship success.
  • [03:02] Jocko Willink:

    "There's a lot of dudes that are great seals. They're not the best husbands. You wouldn't want them to marry your daughter, I can tell you that."

• Practical wisdom: Focus on what you can control—being the best partner for your fiancée, not measuring yourself against a stranger.

3. Understanding and Challenging the Roots of Comparison

• [04:13] Echo Charles:

  "Sometimes we trick ourselves...like, I say in our head that it's like, oh, this guy is a SEAL. So, of course, somewhere inside of him, he's like, dang. He kind of looks up to that as an idea, you know, and then. So he just assumes maybe subconsciously that she looks up to it kind of the same way..."

• Echo stresses that men often create comparisons that aren’t reflective of reality or the values important in relationships.
• Uses gym culture as a metaphor to show how men think feats of strength impress women, when in reality, it's often not what attracts them.

4. Pop Culture Parallel: ‘Meet the Parents’ Movie Example

• [06:17] Jocko Willink: Brings up the character dynamic between Owen Wilson and Ben Stiller in "Meet the Parents."

  "The fact of the matter is, who's she getting married to? She's with Ben Stiller, despite his, you know, gross shortcomings in comparison to Owen Wilson, who plays the perfect dude."

• The point: Even if someone seems "perfect" on paper (adventurous, rich, charming), it doesn’t mean they are the right or chosen person.
• [08:27] Echo Charles: Reminds that the ex wasn’t the chosen one because "she just simply said, I wasn't in love with him."

5. Identifying the Real Problem: Insecurity, Not Comparison

• [09:43] Jocko Willink:

  "You got to steer away from, like, this jealousy and this insecurity, bro. You got to steer away from that because it is in its own right, what the weakness is."

• The danger comes not from the ex’s attributes, but from allowing insecurity to shape your behavior.
• Being outwardly insecure—avoiding events, overreacting, letting jealousy show—is what actually damages a relationship.
  • [11:03] Jocko Willink:

    "If you say it like, well, I don't want to see another one of these movies. It's gonna make you think of him. Like, you're just pathetic... So don't do that. Get control."

6. Actions and Attitude to Adopt

• Accept the human tendency towards jealousy and inadequacy but do not let it control your actions.
• Focus on what matters: your own role, relationship, and growth—not a fictional competition with the past.
• [10:03] Jocko Willink:

  "If you're insecure, that is the insecurity, right. The insecurity isn't that this guy might be bigger, stronger, faster, taller, richer than you, that none of that matters. What actually matters is the one thing that you have control over is... are you going to act insecure?"

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

(With Timestamps)

• [01:12] Jocko Willink:

  "Being a SEAL doesn't make you a good person... Seals are people."

• [03:02] Jocko Willink:

  "There's a lot of dudes that are great seals. They're not the best husbands."

• [04:13] Echo Charles:

  "Sometimes we trick ourselves...he just assumes maybe subconsciously that she looks up to it kind of the same way..."

• [06:17] Jocko Willink:

  "Who's she getting married to? She's with Ben Stiller, despite his, you know, gross shortcomings in comparison to Owen Wilson..."

• [08:27] Echo Charles:

  "She just simply said, I wasn't in love with him. Oh, yeah. Okay. That's all she said."

• [09:43] Jocko Willink:

  "You got to steer away from, like, this jealousy and this insecurity, bro. You got to steer away from that because it is in its own right, what the weakness is."

• [10:03] Jocko Willink:

  "The one thing that you have control over is...are you going to act insecure?"

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:22] Listener’s question—relationship insecurity and the SEAL comparison
• [01:12–03:02] Jocko’s breakdown—debunking the SEAL myth and relationship reality
• [04:13–05:46] Echo’s insight—why we create unhealthy comparisons
• [06:17–08:35] Pop culture parallel: ‘Meet the Parents’ analogy and lessons
• [09:43–11:23] Jocko on action—emphasizing personal control over insecurity

---

Tone & Takeaway

The conversation is both direct and empathetic, in typical Jocko style: realistic, masculine, and practical. Both hosts stress self-reliance, emotional discipline, and perspective—reminding the listener that neither a Navy SEAL pedigree nor comparison with exes should drive actions or emotions. Let go of imagined competition. Be present, focused, and authentic in your own role.

---

Bottom Line:
Focus on your own growth and your actual relationship, not imagined shortcomings or the shadows of the past. Confidence, detachment from insecurity, and real human connection win—every time.

Transcript

[Jocko Willink]

This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 212, sitting here with Echo Charles. We have some questions from the field, from you in the field, and we will provide some guidance, some cases, some answers, and at a minimum, some courses of action for you to follow.

[Echo Charles]

Yep, sounds good.

[Jocko Willink]

Getting you through this maze of life is what you refer to it as sometimes?

[Echo Charles]

Yes, it is the maze, for sure.

[Jocko Willink]

All right.

[Echo Charles]

Some direction always helps. All right, first question. Jack. Huge fan of the. Of the podcast. Been listening since 2016. Never miss an underground pod. Okay. Recently I found out from my buddy that my fiance used to date its SEAL before me. Ever since hearing that, I can't help but wonder what the heck she's doing with me. And I feel like I probably come up short in every possible way. How do I accept my newly realized inferiority and just to get. And just get back on the path of being the best husband and hopefully dad soon. P.S. my very average purple belt in Jiu Jitsu. So at least I have that going for me. Although I routinely get humbled by a 15 by 15 year olds at AOJ. Part of Jiu Jitsu, by the way.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah.

[Echo Charles]

Where I train. Okay.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, cool. Hey, man, listen, first of all, being c. Being a SEAL doesn't make you a good person, doesn't make you a good fighter, doesn't mean that you're smart. It doesn't really mean that you have any positive qualities other than perhaps you will keep going in rough situations. But even that's suspect because there's people that go through buds and they skate and they duck boat and. And seals are all over the spectrum in every aspects in their behavior. And so in other words, seals are people. And this guy that your fiance dated at some point was just some dude that happened to have made it through, you know, SEAL training. He wasn't a superhero. And there's most important. And the guy could have been a great guy, could have been terrible, because it doesn't really even matter. Like you. It doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is as whether this guy was a great guy and a hero and. And stud or not. What? That none of that matters. Like, why are you even thinking about that? Because they're not together anymore. She's with you. So guess who won. Or lack of a better word, I mean, guess who. She ended up with you. So I wouldn't think about it too much. I. You know, don't. Don't compare yourself to some myth that's in your head. Which, by the way, I must remind you that it if you reveal this, look, real insecure. Which isn't going to make your fiance super stoked. Right. Like, the insecurities that come out from this, they seem real weak and. And there's no reason for them because what. Whatever the guy did in the past doesn't really. Whatever. Some guy that she dated a long time ago, it doesn't really matter. Doesn't really matter. So I wouldn't worry about it, man. Honestly, the dude's just a dude. He's not some mythological creature that you've built up in your head. He's some random dude that happened to make it through SEAL training. So he probably, you know, probably would have been a terrible husband. By the way, there's a 90% divorce rate in the SEAL teams. Not that it's not great dudes in the teams, but there's a lot of dudes that are great seals. They're not the best husbands. You wouldn't want them to marry your daughter, I can tell you that. So, yeah, just keep getting after it. Keep training Jiu jitsu. Keep taking care of your girl. Don't worry about this and don't. Yeah, don't. Don't think about it. It's not that big of a deal, man. You know, that's the way. What am I missing here? Because it's going to be hard for me to answer this question. Yeah.

[Echo Charles]

Because you're the Navy seal.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. Than maybe it is for you. What would you say?

[Echo Charles]

Oh, I would say what you. What you said is correct. I believe the only thing that I might be on a. In a different kind of maybe perspective or whatever is I understand what this guy's saying. Not from a necessarily, oh, that guy was an abc. But you know how I think sometimes we trick ourselves or, I don't know, for some reason have this mis. Like understanding that things that we look up to and respect is something that my fiance or me, even just the woman, but potential girlfriend, whatever, might look up to and like, and be attracted to. So, like, you know, like, guys in the gym, they, like, they put on more weight if a girl is around. You know, like br. Girls do not care how much you can bench. You know, like, they care if you're strong versus, like super weak, of course. But that's sort of it, you know? So if it's like, oh, yeah, this Guy can bench 315, right? Three wheels, hell yeah. Oh, dang. But this other guy, he can do 350. She's not going to be like, oh, I'm no longer attracted to this, you know, it doesn't work like that. You know, And I think we make up these. These myths, like, I say in our head that it's like, oh, this guy is a seal. So, of course, somewhere inside of him, he's like, dang. He kind of looks up to that as an idea, you know, and then. So he just assumes maybe subconsciously that she looks up to it kind of the same way, but just from a, you know, female, know, intimate kind of standpoint. And then he feels like this thing, but it's like, yeah, you're right. It's like, so what does that mean at home? You know, what does that mean as a husband? What? Like he's sick with his weapon. Like, it doesn't make sense. You see what I'm saying?

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah.

[Echo Charles]

So, yeah, and then I think what you said, the. The point of, like, okay, how does this translate into being a fiance, husband, dad, or whatever? As a Navy SEAL, you said the 90% divorce rate is kind of like, okay, that's actually a more of a factor than all these cool missions he probably went on. And as cool or may or may not have gone. May or not. Okay. You know, even. There you go. Even additional stuff, you know, to kind of consider. So. So, yeah, you know, makes sense. I mean. Yeah, that. That delusion, I think, is. Is.

[Jocko Willink]

Did you. Did you ever see the movie? I think it's the movie Meet the Fockers, or it's Meet the Parents. And Owen Wilson, he plays, like, the ultimate ex boyfriend, and the. The Robert De Niro, like, loves him. And I just remember that scene where he's like. He un. He unveils the. The. Like the Hopa. What is it called?

[Echo Charles]

Well, they call it a Hopa, but it's a. The what? You get married, right?

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, like the altar. And he's like, oh, my gosh, like, how much time did he say? And he's like, oh, it took me 135 man hours. But, you know, to me it's just working with your hands and, you know, if it's good enough for jc, it's good enough for me. He was a carpenter, too. Just everything he says is just so perfect. And what's his name? Ben Stiller, who's just the. The lower level dude in this scenario. But the fact of the matter is, who's she getting married to? She's with Ben Stiller, despite his, you know, gross shortcomings in comparison to Owen Wilson, who plays the perfect dude.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

So it's kind of the same thing.

[Echo Charles]

Oh, it actually I'll do you. You're more right than you know. I think that was literally an illustration of this exact concept where. But the way they did it was way more appropriate than the Navy SEAL thing, because just like I said, the Navy SEAL thing, it's like that. That's. You're comparing apples to oranges. Like, a badass dude versus a badass husband is like two different things, you know, in this situation. But in that movie, they chose the things that girls tend to look up. You know, this guy, like, if you look at the. If you watch that scene, there's pictures of them skydiving together, doing all these adventurous things, you know, and he's like. He made all this money, which is a known thing, attraction, like, point for girls, you know, so he's super rich, you know, and all this stuff he does all this, like, interesting stuff, you know, he's a handsome dude or whatever, and the dad likes him. Everyone likes him, you know, so it's. It's kind of like he has a point to be.

[Jocko Willink]

Do you remember by chance why they weren't together anymore?

[Echo Charles]

No.

[Jocko Willink]

Like, what. What went wrong?

[Echo Charles]

She's. If I remember correct, she said something. Oh. She just simply said, I wasn't in love with him. Oh, yeah. Okay. That's all she said.

[Jocko Willink]

Damn. Yeah. So there you go. It's a good comparison, though, right? And in Ben Stiller's mind, he thinks like, bro, I. I can't compete with this dude. But she literally doesn't even love Owen Wilson.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And I'm sorry that I don't know the character names, and I'm not trying to attribute these attributions to the actual humans, even though. Oh, and Wilson, dude, that guy's freaking out, dude.

[Echo Charles]

Because he was like. And that guy just says, in general, he does a really good job in, like, you know, playing these characters, but they add these little details that it's like, it would make you super freaking, whether it be jealous, insecure, whatever. Because he'll be like, oh, yeah, she was a tom cat. We had some wild times. And he kind of goes in and thinks about it to himself. And then Ben Stiller, he's looking at him like. And then. And then he's like, they were playing volleyball. And then she was like. And they were on the same team, the Owen Wilson and the girl. And she was like. He was like, hey, good job, Iceman. Or they had nicknames for each other. That's when he got jailed. He finally got jealous or whatever. Bro, I'm telling you, that's Real, though.

[Jocko Willink]

But here's the thing, man. And this is where you got to kind of get. You got to get control of the. To get control of the. Of the damn. Of the damn steering wheel here, right? Cuz you got to steer away from, like, this jealousy and this insecurity, bro. You got to steer away from that because it is in its own right, what the weakness is.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

You know, does that make sense? Like, if you're insecure, that is the insecurity, Right. The insecurity isn't that this guy might be bigger, stronger, faster, taller, richer than you, that none of that matters. What actually matters is the one thing that you have control over is. Is like, are you going to act insecure?

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Because if you are, then throw. You. You break up with her because nothing. It's not going to be good. But if you can be like, oh, cool, I get it. Might be a little bit jealous of that shit, but I'm going to kind of. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna make a deal out. I'm certainly not gonna act it out. Which means you have to stay detached enough from your own little control system that you don't steer it the wrong way, you know? Well, I don't know. Well, I don't want to go to a party if he's going to be there. You see what I'm saying?

[Echo Charles]

Yeah, fully.

[Jocko Willink]

Or no, I don't want to go see this movie about, About Navy seals. Might make you think of Fred or. You know what I mean? Like, if you do that, you're, you're just, you're, you're. You're revealing the one thing that actually could matter.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

In a negative way. If you're like, bro, yeah, you know, if you just go, yeah, I'll go see that. And she goes, you know, that reminds me of that guy Fred. And you go, oh, who? Well, like, I dated a guy. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. If you say it like that, she's all good. If you say it like, well, I don't want to see another one of these movies. It's gonna make you think of him. Like, you're just pathetic.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

So don't do that. Get control your Stingray. And listen, I'm not saying you're gonna feel the pull. You won't feel the pull of the steering wheel. Yeah, I, I get it. It's part of new nature, right? Part of nature. You're looking around, you're going to be jealous. You're going to be resentful. You're going to have all those things, but you don't. You don't let that feeling. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to Jocko underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this. We're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's Jocko underground.com it costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email assistanceacounderground.com and we'll get you taken care of. Until until then, we will see you mobilized Underground.