Jocko Podcast Summary

Episode: Jocko Underground: The Value of Cadence. Worthless? Or Useful? | How Civilians Can Be Prepared for War
Release Date: March 17, 2025
Hosts: Retired Navy SEAL Jocko Willink and Echo Charles (EC)
Description: In this episode, Jocko Willink and Echo Charles delve into the significance of cadence songs within military training, exploring their role in building discipline, leadership, and camaraderie. They also discuss how these practices can be adapted for civilian preparedness.

Introduction

In episode 158 of the Jocko Underground podcast, host Jocko Willink sits down with Echo Charles (EC) to address listener questions, focusing primarily on the role and value of cadence songs in military training. The conversation offers deep insights into the traditions of various military branches, the evolution of cadence practices, and their broader implications for leadership and teamwork both in and out of uniform.

Cadence Songs in Military Training

Understanding Cadence in SEAL Training

Jocko begins by sharing his personal experience with cadence songs during Navy SEAL training. Contrary to popular belief that cadences are primarily motivational, he explains:

"When I went through SEAL training, we did sing cadences. And what's funny is they weren't. They weren't motivational. Most of them weren't motivational at all. They were just funny."
— Jocko Willink [01:20]

He elaborates that most cadences were infused with humor and immature jokes rather than serving as morale boosters. However, there were exceptions, such as a motivational cadence used specifically when heading into "the grinder," the intense training area for physical training (PT):

"When you'd run to the grinder, there was a cool cadence that you would sing when you came in there, and that was cool. That one was kind of quote, unquote, motivational to go in there."
— Jocko Willink [01:58]

Cadences Across Different Military Branches

Jocko contrasts SEAL cadences with those from other branches and training programs. He notes that in Airborne schools and Officer Candidate Schools (OCS) with Marine Corps drill instructors, cadences tend to be more structured and often more motivational. For instance, during Airborne training, cadences like:

"Air C130 rolling down the strip. Airborne daddy going to take a little trip..."
— Jocko Willink [02:48]

are sung to maintain rhythm and build esprit de corps.

In contrast, cadences in SEAL teams themselves are virtually non-existent. Training in SEAL teams emphasizes individual performance over group synchronization, which diminishes the need for traditional cadence singing:

"Once you're in the SEAL teams, there aren't any. You don't really even run. You don't run in formation in the SEAL teams. You just run. It's a race."
— Jocko Willink [06:00]

The Decline of Traditional Cadences

Jocko observes that many traditional cadences have fallen out of favor, partly due to their politically incorrect content. For example, cadences referencing excessive drinking or derogatory language are no longer common, reflecting a shift towards more respectful and inclusive military culture.

"They were all politically totally incorrect and I think that's why they stopped them."
— Jocko Willink [03:42]

Anecdotes and Personal Stories

Cadences in Family and Youth Activities

Jocko shares his experience of incorporating cadence singing into family activities, such as camping trips. Singing cadences with his children on the beach fostered a sense of unity and adventure:

"We would run down the beach with them and call cadence with all these little girls... about killing bad guys."
— Jocko Willink [09:16]

However, these activities sometimes led to trouble, as in high school when Jocko was reprimanded for singing a cadence that was deemed inappropriate:

"Got in trouble Singing cadence about Ho Chi Minh is a son of a... communist."
— Jocko Willink [09:53]

Echo Charles on Football Cadences

Echo Charles relates his own experiences with cadences in sports, highlighting their role in building team spirit and pride. He recalls how his football team used unique cadences that everyone, including newcomers, learned by repetition, fostering immediate integration and unity:

"We are the Rams. The one guy would say, we are there, and then the rest of us would be like the mighty, mighty Rams... it was like a kind of a song."
— Echo Charles [10:44]

This practice not only synchronized the team's movements but also instilled a profound sense of belonging and collective identity among the players.

Insights and Conclusions

Building Cohesion and Unity

Both Jocko and EC emphasize that cadence songs play a crucial role in fostering team cohesion and unity. Whether in military settings or sports teams, cadences synchronize physical movements and reinforce a collective identity, essential for effective teamwork and leadership.

"It's fired up even with, like, little kids running down the beach and they're calling cadence. Like, that's cool. Yeah, it's cool to have a unified crew."
— Jocko Willink [13:09]

Adaptation for Civilian Preparedness

The hosts discuss how the principles behind military cadences—discipline, synchronization, and unity—can be adapted for civilian life and preparedness. By integrating similar practices, civilians can enhance their teamwork capabilities and resilience, preparing effectively for various challenges.

Modern Perspectives on Cadences

While cadences have evolved, their core value remains in building discipline and camaraderie. Jocko notes that even though many traditional cadences are outdated, the underlying purpose of fostering teamwork and mutual support persists across different environments.

Notable Quotes

• Jocko Willink [01:20]: "When I went through SEAL training, we did sing cadences. And what's funny is they weren't. They weren't motivational. Most of them weren't motivational at all. They were just funny."

• Jocko Willink [03:42]: "They were all politically totally incorrect and I think that's why they stopped them."

• Echo Charles [10:44]: "We are the Rams. The one guy would say, we are there, and then the rest of us would be like the mighty, mighty Rams... it was like a kind of a song."

• Jocko Willink [13:09]: "It's fired up even with, like, little kids running down the beach and they're calling cadence. Like, that's cool. Yeah, it's cool to have a unified crew."

Conclusion

In this episode, Jocko Willink and Echo Charles provide a comprehensive exploration of cadence songs within military and civilian contexts. They underline the importance of cadences in building discipline, unity, and effective teamwork. Through personal anecdotes and professional insights, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for this enduring military tradition and its applicability beyond the battlefield.