Jocko Underground: This Man At the Gym Sexually Assaulted my Female Friend. What to do?

Summary

Jocko Underground: Navigating Sexual Assault Allegations in the Gym Environment

Podcast Information:

• Title: Jocko Podcast
• Host/Author: Jocko DEFCOR Network
• Description: Retired Navy SEAL Jocko Willink and Director Echo Charles delve into discipline and leadership across various facets of life, including business, warfare, relationships, and everyday scenarios.
• Episode: Jocko Underground: This Man At the Gym Sexually Assaulted my Female Friend. What to do?
• Release Date: December 2, 2024

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Introduction to the Scenario

In this episode of the Jocko Underground podcast, host Jocko Willink, alongside Director Echo Charles, addresses a deeply troubling situation presented by a listener. The listener shares a harrowing experience involving the sexual assault of a female friend and the subsequent discovery that the assailant is now a regular attendee at a Jiu Jitsu academy where the instructor is a mutual friend. This episode delves into handling such sensitive issues within a community-centered environment like a gym.

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Listener’s Account: A Disturbing Revelation

The episode begins with the listener detailing their experience:

• Invitation to Train: The listener accepted an invitation from a mutual friend, a newly promoted brown belt instructor, to train at a different Jiu Jitsu academy. Excited to support the friend’s new role, they invested time and effort to become part of the new gym community. (00:16)

• Encounter with the Offender: While training, the listener unexpectedly encounters a person who had previously sexually assaulted their female friend during high school. This individual is now casually interacting with other gym members, even disrupting classes by talking over the instructor. (00:37)

• Emotional Turmoil: Witnessing the offender’s presence and demeanor causes significant distress to the listener, who fears losing control and possibly embarrassing their friend or putting the instructor in a difficult position. Consequently, they choose to avoid sparring with the offender and contemplate discontinuing training at the gym. (01:45)

• Seeking Guidance: The listener reaches out for advice on navigating this uncomfortable situation, specifically questioning whether to continue attending the gym and how to communicate their concerns to the instructor. (02:30)

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Jocko’s Response: Analyzing the Complexity

Jocko provides a thoughtful and multifaceted response, emphasizing the complexity of the situation and the necessity for detailed understanding before advising on action.

1. Understanding the Depth of the Incident:

   • Jocko stresses the importance of clarifying the specifics of the sexual assault incident:
     • Timeframe: How long ago did the assault occur? Is it a recent event or a decades-old trauma? (02:50)
     • Nature of the Assault: Was it verbal harassment, inappropriate touching, coercion, or rape? Different degrees of misconduct may necessitate different responses. (03:05)

2. Evaluating the Relationships:

   • He questions the depth of relationships involved:
     • Friendship with the Instructor: Is it a casual acquaintance or a close friendship that can influence the instructor’s actions? (03:25)
     • Trust in the Female Friend: How reliable is the information provided by the friend? Is there evidence or witness testimony to support her claims? (03:40)

3. Considering Legal and Protective Actions:

   • Legal Recourse: Jocko explores whether pursuing legal action is feasible, especially if the assault occurred long ago without prior reporting or evidence. (04:00)
   • Reporting to Authorities: If there’s sufficient evidence or willingness from the victim to come forward, involving law enforcement could be a pathway to accountability. (04:15)

4. Addressing the Gym Environment:

   • Communicating with the Instructor: He suggests directly informing the instructor about the offender’s past, emphasizing the potential harm to the community and the need for maintaining a safe training environment. (04:35)
   • Anonymous Reporting: Alternatively, sending an anonymous letter to the gym management warning about the offender could be considered if direct confrontation feels uncomfortable. (04:50)

5. Personal Boundaries and Well-being:

   • Jocko highlights the listener’s emotional state and the importance of self-preservation:
     • Avoiding Confrontation: The listener’s decision to sidestep sparring with the offender is a valid measure to maintain personal mental health. (05:10)
     • Alternative Training Options: Exploring other gyms or training environments where the offender isn't present could offer a safer and more comfortable space for the listener. (05:25)

6. Long-Term Strategies:

   • Community Vigilance: Encouraging a culture of accountability within the gym can prevent future incidents and promote a supportive environment. (05:40)
   • Support Systems: Ensuring the female friend has continued access to support and counseling is crucial for her healing process. (05:55)

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Notable Quotes and Insights

Throughout the episode, Jocko underscores the intricacies of handling allegations of this nature:

• "That's obviously, that's very terrible to hear. Just awful to hear that." (02:41) – Acknowledging the severity of the situation.

• "Rapists should die." (03:15) – Emphasizing strong condemnation for heinous crimes, though he clarifies that responses should be proportionate to the offense.

• "If you're really good friends with the instructor, you can roll in there and be like, hey, this guy that's coming to your school, he's a dirtbag. You shouldn't let him train here." (04:10) – Highlighting the influence one’s standing can have in addressing misconduct.

• "There's a whole range of options there." (04:50) – Pointing out the multitude of paths available depending on the specific circumstances.

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Concluding Thoughts and Recommendations

Jocko concludes by reiterating the need for a personalized approach:

• Assess the Situation Thoroughly: Gather all pertinent details before deciding on a course of action.
• Prioritize Safety and Accountability: Ensure that the steps taken protect the victim and hold the perpetrator accountable.
• Maintain Open Communication: Foster honest conversations within the gym community to uphold a safe and respectful environment.
• Seek Professional Advice: Consider consulting legal or psychological professionals to navigate the complexities of such cases effectively.

Jocko's empathetic and strategic response provides the listener with a framework to handle the distressing discovery of an offender within their training environment, balancing personal well-being with communal responsibility.

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Final Remarks

This episode of Jocko Underground addresses a sensitive and challenging issue, offering listeners a comprehensive analysis of handling sexual assault allegations within community settings. By combining empathy with tactical advice, Jocko and Echo Charles guide individuals through difficult moral and emotional landscapes, reinforcing the values of leadership, discipline, and justice.

For more insights and to engage directly with the content, listeners are encouraged to visit JockoUnderground.com and subscribe to support the community-driven initiative.

Transcript

[A]

This is the Jocko Underground podcast, number one of 46. Sitting here with Echo Charles. We've got some questions from the hinterlands. Yeah. And we're going to answer these questions. We're going to learn a little bit about life situations and scenarios. Let's go.

[B]

Yep. Okay. Jujitsu academies. We're all looking, looking at them, looking within part of them even. So this has something to do with that. Okay. I recently encountered something very disturbing at the Jiu Jitsu academy. I train at something I never would have predicted. I had an open invitation by a mutual friend to train at a different gym. His friend is a newly promoted brown belt instructor and is now teaching a beginner's class. I really want to support him as he fills this new role. The gym is out of the way and take serious commitment to make make it happen when I can. After many attempts, I was finally able to train with my friend and his class. I found an awesome group of people, really enjoyed his style of teaching. I was starting to think through how I could regularly train there, and the worst person I could think of just strolled in. I have another female friend who was sexually assaulted in high school. She opened up to me a few years ago and I think just needed someone to listen when she told me the situ the situation had happened a long time ago beyond any real means to hold the person accountable. It was one of those situations where she was scared and ashamed and didn't know what to do. I listened. I listened and did my best to help her work through the trauma. It was hard to listen to how badly I wanted to track down the guy and make him pay. Fast forward to today and I'm watching this offender lazily walk around making jokes with the other guys. Even talking over my instructor friend at one point, to put it lightly, I was sick to my stomach. I was horrified that a guy like that would be learning a skill like Jiu Jitsu. I did my best to be attentive to the instructor friend. When it came time for open roles, I avoided him. He even had that let me get the new guy attitude. But I declined and played it off like I was sitting out the round because I was spent quite simply, I fear how I might have acted if we actually sparred. I'm really disappointed that this person is a regular at my friend's gym. I would like to go there, but I don't trust I could keep my cool. I would never embarrass my female friend by making it a situation as I know that wouldn't help Anything. Nor would I want to put my instructor friend in a bad spot. I was hoping you might offer some thoughts on this situation. Have you ever been in a situation where you had to navigate around a bad person on the mats? How would you handle this? If I don't go back, what should I tell my instructor friend? Any advice is much appreciated.

[A]

Well, that's obviously, that's very terrible to hear. Just awful to hear that. And it's awful to hear that encroaching into the jiu jitsu world. Yep, that's terrible. And then it also, in order to kind of recommend a way forward, honestly, I think I would need more context around the situation. Like, how long ago did this happen, right? Is it decades ago, or is it five years ago? Or is it three years ago? Or is it 20 years ago? Like, is there any report at all that came from it from your female friend? I'm just, again, I'm just trying to gauge like, is this a situation where we pursue some kind of legal activities? And then also what exactly happened, right, because was it like the guy was making verbal comments that were unwanted verbal comments and you know, like verbally sexually harassing, which is a thing, or was it inappropriate touching, or was it grabbing, or was it like force or coercion to engage in some kind of sexual activity? Or was it like drug rape scenario, or was it rape? So all those are totally wrong, obviously. But there's, there's escalations in there that kind of modulate the response. Well, for instance, rapists should die, right? But you know, verbal, somebody that made a verbal comment, they don't necessarily need to die, right? They need to maybe get some physical reeducation about some scenario. How old was the perpetrator at the time you said it happened in high school? Is that 13 years old? Because you're in high school, you're 13 years old, or you can be 19 years old in high school. There's a big difference between what a 13 year old does. You take those two variables that I just put together. 13 year old doing something that's obviously inappropriate but not physical. That's a lot different than somebody that's 23 years old or 25 years old that's doing something that is physical. So those are kind of some of the things I'm thinking about that I would want to have more clarity on. And also, what are all these relationships actually like? So, and I guess we're only talking about two relationships here. How good of a friend is the instructor? Because is this a jiu jitsu buddy, or is this, like, a friend, a real friend? How close of a friend is the female victim? Right. Is she, for one thing, like, how much do you trust her? Do you know that she's telling you the truth and that there's no, like, embellishment to the story, that she's got no reason for that? And. And we take her word at complete truth? Or is it someone that we don't know really well and it's acquaintance, and maybe we don't have 100 trust in her? Again, there's. There's a huge amount of variation there, so there's lots of questions. And the reason I would want more detail is because this is a severe situation. Right. It's a sensitive situation. And then depending on how some of those variables play out, like, are we reporting this guy? Right. Are we reporting this guy? Were there any witnesses back in the day? Is there any evidence from back in the day? Like, those are legit questions. And then does. Would she feel comfortable going forward and taking legal action against this guy? Calling the police, something like that, filing a report? So that. That's like a whole. There's a whole range of options there. Now admit it was implied, I think, a little bit where she was saying that back then when she. When it happened a long time ago, that there was. There was no real means to hold the person accountable, the perpetrator accountable. Right. So I would have to pull the thread on that a little bit. Here's another thing. If you're really good friends with the instructor, you can roll in there and be like, hey, this guy that's coming to your school, he's a dirtbag. You shouldn't let him train here. And you're good, in fact, roots. And your good friend goes, oh, roger that. I'm kicking him out tonight. Boom, done. And that's if you feel comfortable straight up telling the instructor, hey, this is what's going on. I got a friend. This guy. This guy sexually assaulted my friend. This guy raped my friend. This guy's a dirtbag. It happened a long time ago. He needs to be punished. There's no legal thing, but you shouldn't be teaching him Jiu Jitsu. Okay? So that's the thing you can do. Here's. Here's another thing. People that are like this, people that are predators, they. They continue with these bad. This bad behavior. So here's another again. Like, do you hire a private investigator and find out what this guy's got going on in his life? Yeah. If you're going hard in the Paint. Do you do that? Tell me what's going on with this guy's life? Make sure that he. Because if. Let's face it, if this guy's a total predator, a sexual predator, and, you know, it's. Well, let's gather some evidence current day, and maybe we can get him locked up. That. Look, see what I'm saying? And look, I'm not going level nine vigilante, but if you hire a provided private investigator to pay attention to what this person is doing. You see what I'm saying? So there's just so much. There's such a wide range of things to do. Yeah. You could send an anonymous letter to the school, to the instructor, saying that this guy, here's a picture of him. This guy, you know, you get to get his Facebook profile or whatever, his Instagram thing. This guy's a sexual predator. He's in your school. You should not let him train there. Boom. And then you find out where else he's training. You see what I'm saying? So there's all kinds of things that you could do. I usually feel like someone that's like this, that's a predator of some kind, they burn bridges, and they continue to burn bridges, and they. They call. They leave a path of, like, destruction behind them. So they kind of. They entrap themselves eventually. So there's just kind of endless courses of actions that you can take, by the way, you can also just not go to school anymore and carry on like that, depending on where all these other things lie out, fall out. And also depending on how much investment you want to take, how much investment of your life are you going to take in getting this person what you consider justice? Again, depending on how well you know the girl. So there's just a lot of variables here that I have a hard time saying, oh, here's a course of action that you should execute. I can just tell you some courses of action that our possibilities depending on the specific scenario. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to Jocko underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this. We're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. 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