Jocko Underground: What's Up With Military Recruiting, Recruiting Videos |

Summary

Jocko Underground: What's Up With Military Recruiting, Recruiting Videos

Episode Number: 159
Release Date: March 24, 2025
Hosts: Jocko Willink and Echo Charles
Description: Retired Navy SEAL, Jocko Willink, and Director Echo Charles delve into the challenges and intricacies of military recruiting, analyzing the effectiveness of recruiting videos and the pivotal role of leadership in overcoming recruitment hurdles.

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Introduction to Military Recruiting Challenges

In this episode, Jocko Willink and Echo Charles tackle pressing questions regarding the state of military recruitment. A listener, a recently retired National Guard recruiting leader, reaches out expressing concerns about the current difficulties in military recruiting, despite prior success utilizing leadership principles advocated by Jocko.

Echo Charles:
"I was very successful recruiting leader. Even after Covid, all my success came from using your leadership concepts."
[00:12]

Strategies for Transitioning into Civilian Roles

Jocko responds by acknowledging recent positive trends in recruiting numbers, attributing this improvement to new leadership within the military and government sectors. He advises retirees to explore civilian positions that align with their military experience, such as training officers, human resources assistants, or public affairs officers. Jocko emphasizes the value veterans bring to these roles and encourages leveraging platforms like USAjobs.gov to find suitable opportunities.

Jocko Willink:
"If you were a good recruiter while you were in, I'm sure you'd still bring some value."
[00:58]

He further elaborates on the importance of continuity within military structures, highlighting how civilian roles maintain institutional knowledge and stability, especially given the frequent mobilizations and relocations inherent to military life.

The Role and Impact of Recruiting Videos

The conversation shifts to the effectiveness of military recruiting videos on television and online platforms. Echo shares his perspective on the evolution of these videos, noting that earlier advertisements often failed to resonate with his personal motivations for joining the military.

Echo Charles:
"Some of the army stuff is really good from a video standpoint... They look like blockbuster movies."
[03:43]

Jocko critiques previous recruiting efforts that misrepresented military roles, using a metaphor comparing military recruitment ads to ads for ballet dancers or chefs. He underscores the necessity for recruiting materials to accurately reflect the realities of military service, ensuring that potential recruits have clear and realistic expectations.

Jocko Willink:
"You got to be real with what you're doing. You got to be real with what you're doing."
[06:13]

He further illustrates this point by explaining that misleading advertisements can lead to dissatisfaction and mismatched expectations among recruits, ultimately hindering recruitment efforts.

Aligning Recruitment Messaging with Roles

Both hosts agree on the critical importance of aligning recruitment messaging with the specific roles being advertised. Jocko emphasizes that successful recruitment relies on attracting individuals who are genuinely interested in the positions being offered, rather than casting a wide net with broad or misleading appeals.

Echo Charles:
"It feels like if someone's advertising, wanting to recruit a cook or chef, and they advertise the guy with the machine gun... It feels like that restaurant might not be as successful."
[05:25]

This analogy highlights the potential pitfalls of inconsistent messaging, where the portrayal of a role does not match the actual duties, leading to frustration and disengagement among recruits.

Future Directions and Leadership in Recruitment

Jocko and Echo discuss the future of military recruiting, emphasizing the need for strong leadership to adapt to changing recruitment landscapes. They advocate for the continued use of authentic and role-specific recruiting materials to attract motivated and suitable candidates.

Jocko Willink:
"You need some continuity there. You need Someone there that has 8, 10 years worth of knowing the training sites, knowing the issues we're going to face."
[02:30]

Moreover, they touch upon the competitive nature of recruitment, comparing American and Russian recruiting strategies, and the importance of maintaining a robust and appealing recruitment approach to stay ahead.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with Jocko encouraging veterans to seek out roles that leverage their unique skills and experiences, ensuring that they continue to contribute effectively within the military structure even in civilian capacities. He also highlights the importance of authentic recruitment practices in maintaining the integrity and strength of military forces.

Jocko Willink:
"You got to be real with what you're doing. You got to be real with what you're doing."
[06:13]

---

Notable Quotes:

• Echo Charles:
  "Some of the army stuff is really good from a video standpoint... They look like blockbuster movies."
  [03:43]

• Jocko Willink:
  "If you were a good recruiter while you were in, I'm sure you'd still bring some value."
  [00:58]

• Jocko Willink:
  "You got to be real with what you're doing."
  [06:13]

This episode provides valuable insights into the complexities of military recruiting, emphasizing the pivotal role of accurate and authentic communication in attracting and retaining motivated individuals. Jocko and Echo's discussion underscores the necessity of leadership and strategic messaging in overcoming recruitment challenges and ensuring the continued strength of military forces.

Transcript

[Jocko Willink]

This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 159, sitting here with Echo Charles. And we've got some questions and some answers for the people.

[Echo Charles]

Cool.

[Jocko Willink]

Let's get into it.

[Echo Charles]

We ready? Okay.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah.

[Echo Charles]

Good. First question. Hello, sir. I recently retired from the National Guard. I was very successful recruiting leader. Even after Covid, all my success came from using your leadership concepts. As I'm trying to figure out my next step, I can't help to see on the news the recruiting issues our military is having. I believe the answer is in leadership. I'm sending this, I'm sending the message because I would love to be able to impact this need and need guidance on how or where to start. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Jocko Willink]

Right. Right on. First of all, I'll say this. In the past couple days, maybe past week or so, recruiting numbers are back up. So there's some new leadership in the military, there's some new leadership in the government.

[Echo Charles]

And.

[Jocko Willink]

And it seems like that is helping our recruiting numbers. So it seems like we're moving in the right direction there. But that being said, I'm sure if you were a good recruiter while you were in, I'm sure you'd still bring some value. And so what I would do, honestly, is look for job opportunities in that environment. So I real quick went to USAjobs.gov there's a website where you can apply for civilian jobs, and there was a bunch of jobs on there. Training officer. These are civilian jobs. Training officer for the National Guard. Human resources assistant. What does a human resources assistant you think they do? Recruiting has got to be in there. Public affairs officer for the National Guard. Needed. Again, these are civilian positions that you could get into as a government employee working with the National Guard as a public affairs officer. So. So think about that. If you're working public affairs and you're out there, what are you doing? You're basically, you can do a lot of recruiting, and then there's a bunch of other ones. I mean, there's intel officer, mechanic, like, you know, target repair. There's a bunch of other types of jobs. But what I'm saying is you retired from the National Guard, there are opportunities to still work in inside the system. So in the SEAL teams, like at trade at, we have like a deputy ops guy that's a civilian. So he was in the teams most of the times, he was in the teams and retired from the teams and then gets a job as a civilian. So that way, because military people move around so much, you need some continuity there. You need Someone there that has 8, 10 years worth of knowing the training sites, knowing the issues we're going to face, knowing how to deal with this, that and the other thing. That's why you have these civilians. It's the same thing in basic skill training. There's civilians that work there, that keep the continuity together. So that's what I would do if I were you. I would look for recruiting type jobs if they come up, but also just public affairs jobs, training officer jobs, human resources jobs, because I think all those would probably lend you to an opportunity where you'd be able to carry on your career in the National Guard, but as a civilian. So that's what I would do. Thanks for your service. Go get some.

[Echo Charles]

How often do you see, like, military videos on tv? You.

[Jocko Willink]

What do you mean by military video on tv?

[Echo Charles]

You know, like recruiting, you know, few the proud.

[Jocko Willink]

You know, I don't know because I don't watch a lot of tv, so I don't even know if they do. They have recruiting things on TV. I'd have to go to YouTube and watch them.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah, like, I, I know that I'm thinking back, the UFC would have.

[Jocko Willink]

Oh, yeah, some Marine Corps stuff and some Air Force stuff and some National Guard stuff.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of the army stuff is really good from a video standpoint, that. But I don't know, I always felt like sometimes those videos can be real compelling. You know, they look like blockbuster movies. And it's kind of like. Because, you know, I don't know, when, when I was young, when it, when it came down to, like, joining the military, it was kind of like that. The gym, that was the feel where it's like, yeah, you can go and go, go on these.

[Jocko Willink]

Well, they're getting back to that kind of recruiting now, too.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Because for a while, the recruiting videos were not very. They were recruiting. I don't know who they were trying to recruit, but they wouldn't recruit a dude like me.

[Echo Charles]

Right.

[Jocko Willink]

Like, I joke about it, dude, when I showed up to recruiter, when I realized you, oh, wait, you'll pay me money to carry machine gun. Sign me up. I'll. I'll go right now. What? Let's go. So, but if they would have showed me the, like, some of the advertisements from a few years ago where it was, like, weird. They weren't talking about being a warrior.

[Echo Charles]

Right.

[Jocko Willink]

They were talking about being something else.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

You know, I've, as I've said, I didn't become a ballet dancer.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

The reason I didn't come about A ballet dancer isn't because they didn't have good ballet recruiting ads. It's because I didn't want to be a ballet dancer. I wanted to carry a machine gun. So when I saw ads for guys carrying machine guns, that's sign me up.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

If you show me an ad for somebody that's not carrying a machine gun, why would I go there?

[Echo Charles]

Right.

[Jocko Willink]

You don't show me that. I don't want to be a cook. Like, you could put a cook, a chef thing. Advertisement on the tv. I don't want to be a chef. I don't like cooking.

[Echo Charles]

It's not speaking to you.

[Jocko Willink]

No, it doesn't speak to me. And by the way, if you were. If you showed me, here's what you could do. You could trick me, right? You want me to be a chef. So you show, like, a guy walking through the kitchen carrying a machine gun. I'd be like, whoa. Oh, wait a second. That could be cool. So I go sign up. Now you got me there, and you hand me a spoon and a bowl, a knife and a knife, and you're like, okay, you're gonna, you know, do food prep. Dude, I don't want to do that.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

So now I'm pissed. I want to carry a machine gun. You showed me a picture of guy with machine gun in the kitchen. I thought that was what we were doing.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

I thought there was people that need to get whacked in the kitchen. No, they don't. We're making soup. No, I don't want to make soup. So I think they're doing the right thing. Now you want to show someone carrying a machine gun going to war because that's what you are trying to recruit.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Not trying to recruit a ballerina or a chef. Now, if you want to be a cook in the military, cool. You can go and apply. That's a nuanced job, and you can learn that skill set if that's what you want. Good. Because now if you. If you sign up to be a cook in the Navy, and now you get on the navy ship, and they're like a cool. Here's what you'll be cooking. You'll be cooking all this breakfast, and it's cool, man. You learn to cook really well for massive amounts of people with, you know, troubling circumstances, you know, because you don't always have all the supplies you need. You got to figure out how to make things work. And you're on a ship, and there's like. Right. So you become a good cook. If that's what you want to do. But you got to be real with what you're doing. That's my point. You got to be real with what you're doing.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. It feels like if someone's advertising, wanting to recruit a cook or chef, and they advertise the guy with the machine gun, right? And they get you in there, and you go in there expecting the machine gun, expecting all this stuff. You get the, you know, the Ginsu knife and the spoon and the bowls and stuff. It feels like that that restaurant might not be as successful.

[Jocko Willink]

Oh, no. They're gonna have problems with me.

[Echo Charles]

They have some problems with you and everyone else. Like.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, because they recruited a bunch of people.

[Echo Charles]

The wrong people.

[Jocko Willink]

Got me and Tony Efratti in there. They're telling us to make salad, right?

[Echo Charles]

Exactly.

[Jocko Willink]

Ain't happening, bro.

[Echo Charles]

Exactly.

[Jocko Willink]

Right.

[Echo Charles]

Meanwhile, they needed. What's the guy trying to. Diners drive ins and dives. Guy Fieri. They need that guy, dude.

[Jocko Willink]

That guy likes to cook, bro.

[Echo Charles]

I don't like to cook all day.

[Jocko Willink]

I've given up on, like, the whole. You know, for a while, I was like, oh, you know, maybe cooking, you know, like, barbecue and stuff. It seems like a cool thing to like. Like to do, right?

[Echo Charles]

Yeah, sure.

[Jocko Willink]

You know what I mean?

[Echo Charles]

Yes, I do.

[Jocko Willink]

Like, oh, it looks like fun.

[Echo Charles]

It's fun.

[Jocko Willink]

Hey, the barbecue. We're going to get some stuff for a while. I was like, okay, well, let's. Seems like this supposed to be fun. Yeah, it's not fun for me. Not my thing, not my. It's not my jam. I'll eat it. You know what I'm saying? Late Babin comes to my house and spends three hours prepping for. Or John Dudley. Don't. L be prepping food. 48 hours in advance squared away, dude. Tastes delicious. I'm totally down for that. But I don't want to do it. Not because I'm lazy, but I don't get any. I don't. It doesn't make me feel good. I would just. I get as much gratification from making a ham sandwich as I do from making a. A good steak. But by the way, my ham sandwiches are good. They take me three minutes.

[Echo Charles]

I'm sure they're.

[Jocko Willink]

My steak is not that great. My wife makes a prime rib. Takes her a few hours to make the prime rib. It's good, man. It's really good. But if I was left to my own devices, I would never have prime rib, because I'm not going to take four hours to prep and do all the stuff.

[Echo Charles]

It's not who you are.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah.

[Echo Charles]

So, yes. So the point being, even me not in the military, probably past any kind of military age as far as being in my prime.

[Jocko Willink]

Are you thinking about getting in the game?

[Echo Charles]

No, no, no. What you're hearing is me saying sometimes what I'd watch those videos. Oh, yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Like, you get fired up.

[Echo Charles]

It's mainly like. Yeah. The art. It was mainly the army, if I'm not mistaken.

[Jocko Willink]

Marine Corps does. Doesn't play around either. Marine Corps does a great job.

[Echo Charles]

In fact, I think it's army and Marine.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, sure.

[Echo Charles]

Those videos were like, okay. And they'd have different messages, you know, like, go on a mission, be elite, travel the world. They were all like, really legit videos to me as a customer or an avatar, as they might say.

[Jocko Willink]

They almost got you.

[Echo Charles]

It were. It was working. That kind of pr, slash advertising, slash marketing, whatever was working. Yeah. These other videos that you're referring to, I've never seen in real life, but I've seen, you know, on the Internet, I've seen, like, you know, these guys, they'll talk about them.

[Jocko Willink]

People are putting. They were just. Just opposing. Juxtaposing a Russian recruiting video.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And like the American recruiting video. And the Russian recruiting video was recruiting hard. That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to Jocko underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are. We're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's Jocko underground dot com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email assistancejaco underground.com and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized Underground.