Jocko Underground: When To Walk Away From Your Significant Other. And Don't Look Back.

Summary

Jocko Podcast Underground #210: When To Walk Away From Your Significant Other—and Don’t Look Back

Date: April 20, 2026
Hosts: Jocko Willink & Echo Charles

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Overview

In this episode, Jocko Willink and Echo Charles tackle a powerful and difficult listener question about walking away from a relationship when addiction and mental health issues make it unsafe. The discussion explores personal responsibility, what taking ownership means in the context of ending a relationship, and the boundaries between helping and enabling. The segment also briefly touches on the dangers of Kratom.

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Key Discussion Points

1. When to Walk Away—And Don’t Look Back

• Listener Question (00:17):
  A listener details her experience with a former partner struggling with Kratom-induced mental health, including hallucinations and unsafe firearm use. She asks whether, after leaving and notifying the man’s family and pastor, she should feel compelled to do more or take further ownership of his situation.

• Jocko’s Response (01:43):

  • Absolute Priority on Safety:
    “This is a totally unsafe situation with a mentally unstable person that is hallucinating about demons and has firearms. This is, this is go away and stay away. Do not look back.” ([01:47])
  • No Obligation for Direct Involvement:
    “You need to break away, break contact completely. This person should never hear your name again.” ([03:36])
  • On Taking Ownership:
    “Taking ownership is not getting yourself killed. That is not the right thing to do.” ([03:56])
  • Helping Through Others—Not Direct Contact:
    “If you feel so compelled out of the goodness of your heart that you have some care, then do it through like a third party cutout, like a couple degrees of separation... But even that I would barely... I wouldn't recommend it.” ([02:41])
  • Responsibility Ends After Appropriate Notification:
    “You recommended mental health. You reported what was going on to his brother and his pastor. And that's the right thing to do. That's how you take ownership.” ([04:13])
  • Avoid Codependency:
    “This interesting temptation to 'help them' will actually just hurt them more... It keeps them in a codependent, like, unhealthy mental state. It's just not good across the board.” ([02:10])

• Memorable Quote:
  “If someone is drowning and you jump in the water and you drown too, you have not helped that person.” (Jocko, [04:02])

• Protocol for Breakups in Dangerous Situations:
  Jocko is very clear: the protocol does not change for someone with addiction or mental health issues when physical safety is at risk. The only route is to walk away and not look back.

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2. Brief Discussion on Kratom

• What is Kratom?

  • Echo Charles ([04:43]):
    “From what I understand, which is not much, it's some kind of like stimulant type scenario... super addictive, like physiologically addictive...”
    • Describes withdrawal as far worse than caffeine.
  • Jocko ([04:45]):
    “Isn't it something you can buy in like a 7-Eleven or something like that?... I thought it was one of those kind of semi-legal drugs... a gray area, and then they kind of made it illegal from what I understand.”

• Notable Quotes:

  • “Apparently if it’s giving you hallucinations where you see demons, like it’s bad.” (Jocko, [05:54])

• Contextual Takeaway:
  Both hosts admit limited first-hand knowledge, but agree Kratom can have severe negative effects, especially in vulnerable individuals.

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3. Underlying Principles & Metaphors

• Codependence and Enabling:
  Attempts to help in-person can perpetuate unhealthy dynamics.
• Taking Ownership:
  Doing the responsible thing may mean withdrawing and NOT risking oneself or further enabling the other’s destructive patterns.
• Metaphor:
  “If someone is drowning and you jump in the water and you drown too, you have not helped that person. So taking ownership of this situation means that you know that you've done what you can and you need to walk away and not look back.” ([04:02–04:12])

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• “Do not destroy your own life to try and save someone that needs to take ownership of their own life.”
  — Jocko ([04:32])
• “The protocol is not different. Walk away, don’t look back.”
  — Jocko ([04:37])

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Important Timestamps

• 00:17: Listener’s question and context
• 01:43: Jocko’s decisive guidance—to walk away, not look back
• 02:10: Why helping can perpetuate codependency
• 03:36: On breaking contact completely
• 04:02: Ownership metaphor: drowning person
• 04:43: Short discussion on Kratom and its dangers

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Tone and Language

The hosts are direct, serious, and anchored in the ethos of personal responsibility. Jocko’s military and discipline background come through in the absolute, no-nonsense advice. Echo echoes concern and a sense of caution, especially regarding Kratom’s harms and the unpredictability of mental health crises.

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Summary Takeaways

• If your physical safety is at risk in a relationship with someone suffering from addiction or mental illness, the only responsible action is to disconnect completely—no contact, no enabling, no lingering hope that you can fix them.
• Taking ownership in such a situation means acting responsibly for yourself and making proper notifications to family or authorities, not endangering yourself further.
• Kratom can have severe, dangerous mental effects, especially for those with underlying mental health issues.
• Compassion does not equate to self-sacrifice in the face of ongoing danger.

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For those facing similar situations, this episode offers firm validation and expert reassurance on prioritizing safety and setting hard boundaries—even when it’s difficult or goes against your instincts to help.

Transcript

[A]

This is the Jocko underground. Podcast. Number 210 is sitting here with Echo Charles. We've received some questions from the field and we have some answers, some recommendations and some courses of. Of action for you. So let's get into it. Cool.

[B]

Yeah. The first question. Hello. I've been struggling with this, with the balance between quote, unquote, walk away and don't look back and taking ownership after breakup Max. My ex was using Kratom products which I think contributed to his mental health issues. He started having sleeping problems, hallucinations, saying he could see demons, and started having and then delusional beliefs about this. Those hallucinations. I was trying to get him professional help, but one day while taking off the bedding to wash, I found his loaded gun under his pillow, pointed at my side of the bed. He dismissed my concern about it, so I tried turning it away from me or putting it in the nightstand, but he kept putting it back under the pillow and pointed it towards me. I felt unsafe, so I decided to leave. I told both his brother and his pastor the full story and asked them to help him. And I've cut off communication, but I've wondered if walking away and not looking back is the right call for situations like this or if I need to take more ownership and action to get him help. Sometimes I've been. I even wonder if I should have stayed. My friends have varied opinions and I go back and forth. So could you please offer advice about breaking up with someone who has addiction or mental health struggles? Is it the same breakup protocol or is it different?

[A]

No, it's not different. And you don't need to do anything else here. This is a totally unsafe situation with a mentally unstable person that is hallucinating about demons and has firearms. There's. This is, this is go away and stay away. Do not look back. Do not. This is terrible, terrible situation. Thankfully, you got out of it and carry on with your life. And, and, and just keep this in mind too. This interesting temptation to quote, unquote, help them will actually just hurt them more. It's going to enable their behavior. It's going to give them a false sense of hope. It's going to put you at more risk. It keeps them in a codependent, like, unhealthy mental state. It's just not good across the board. So you absolutely just do not communicate with this person ever again. If you feel so compelled out of the goodness of your heart that you have some care, then do it through like a third party cutout, like a couple degrees of separation. Like if you want to call someone who can call the cops to check on him. So the cops are a cutout and then the person that you called is a cutout and it's never going to get back to you. But even that I would barely. I wouldn't recommend it. I think you need to break away, break contact completely. This person should never hear your name again. That's just the way it is. And they certainly should not see your face or hear your voice or anything like that. And as far as taking ownership goes, you've already taken ownership. You recommended mental health. You reported what was going on to his brother and his pastor. And that's the right thing to do. That's how you take ownership. Taking ownership is not getting yourself killed. That is not the right thing to do. If someone is drowning and you jump in the water and you drown too, you have not helped that person. So taking ownership of this situation means that you know that you've done what you can and you need to walk away and not look back. Taking ownership means knowing that there's nothing else you can do. You're not going to help this individual with their mental problems. You're not going to be able to. That's not your job, that's not your world. So that's where you're at. Do not destroy your own life to try and save someone that needs to take ownership of their own life. So the protocol is not different. Walk away, don't look back. That's what I got. It's pretty straightforward.

[B]

So you've heard of Kratom?

[A]

You know, I've heard of it, but I don't really know too much about it. I believe it's. Isn't it something that you can buy in like a 711 or something like that?

[B]

I don't, I don't know.

[A]

Okay, well, I don't know. I thought it was one of those kind of semi legal drugs or at least it was legal when it first came out or something like that. Yeah, but I don't even know what it does.

[B]

Yeah, from what I understand, which is not much, it's some kind of like stimulant type scenario. Like people who work out, I think use it sometimes, you know, like a pre workout or I don't know, something like. That's the context. I have heard it but. But yet. Jams you up real bad from what I understand, like super addictive, like physiologically addictive. So like if you get off of it, you have like these weirdo withdrawal stuff like symptoms and Stuff like that. Like bad. Like not the kind of like you get off coffee or something like this and then you get like some headaches or so it's not that it's like way worse, you know, it's like that kind. So it's like kind of dangerous from what I understand. But I never even heard of until like probably like a month ago I

[A]

heard of it, I think when it kind of made it into the news. And the reason it was in the news was it was something that hadn't been declared illegal yet. You know what I'm saying? Someone invented a new drug.

[B]

Like a gray area.

[A]

Yeah, it was a gray area and then they kind of made it illegal from what I understand. But I don't know too much about it. Yeah, but apparently if it's giving you hallucinations where you see demons, like it's bad. And this is not a good situation for this woman to be in at all. So.

[B]

Yeah, could be the kind where he might had some pre existing conditions.

[A]

Oh, for sure.

[B]

You know. Yeah. It seems like a red flag.

[A]

Yeah. If you have pre existing mental health issues. And then you go. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jockounderground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's Jocko underground.com it costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [e-mail] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.