Jocko Underground: Why Do People Refuse to Learn or Talk About The Future Of The World Around Us?

Summary

Jocko Podcast Underground #225

Episode Title: Why Do People Refuse to Learn or Talk About The Future Of The World Around Us?
Date: August 10, 2026
Hosts: Jocko Willink & Echo Charles

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles a listener’s heartfelt question about navigating personal growth, evolving interests, and the frustration that comes when others show no interest in understanding or discussing the fast-changing world. Jocko and Echo explore how to handle social isolation, the importance of open-mindedness, and how to avoid becoming jaded or judgmental about others’ unwillingness (or disinterest) to “learn about the future.” Their discussion highlights perspectives on relationships, change, and the pitfalls of superiority complexes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Outgrowing Social Circles & Embracing Change

• People Evolve at Different Rates: As we age and our interests change, it’s natural for friendships to shift or fade.
  • Jocko: “Some of the people in your life and in your world, they don't grow or they don't evolve in the same direction...it might not be the wrong direction, but it might not be the same direction.” (01:48)
• Venn Diagram of Interests: Social circles become smaller and tighter, but more aligned.
  • “At some point, your social circle might end up a little bit smaller, but it’ll be a little bit tighter with a bunch of people that have some aligned interests.” (03:50)

2. The Importance of Openness & Diverse Friendships

• Value of Variety: Jocko stresses having friends with vastly different lifestyles, perspectives, and goals expands one’s understanding and enjoyment of life.
  • “I got friends that are hippies, I got friends that are metalheads...finance bros...Jiu Jitsu junkies...billionaires...construction...law enforcement. So it's all good.” (04:54)
• Learning from Anyone: Being too insular leads to missed opportunities for learning and enjoyment.
  • “These different people that are all different, that have different interests, they bring different things to the table, man. And I appreciate that.” (05:29)

3. Avoiding Judgement and the Superiority Trap

• Mirror the Closed-Mindedness: Judging others for being “closed-minded” is itself a form of closed-mindedness.
  • “Of course people don't want to learn. Nobody wants to learn. Apparently you don't want to learn either because you don't want to hear what they have to say.” (07:23)
• Personal Anecdote on Food Judgment: Jocko shares how even well-meaning advice (like telling others what their kids should eat) can alienate.
  • “My wife was like, hey, you're not allowed to talk about food with my friends. I was like, oh, I'm an a—...you see what I'm saying?” (08:26)

4. When to Push Back and When to Let Go

• Don’t Waste Energy: It’s okay not to invest in changing everyone else; don't force your perspective on unenthusiastic audiences.
  • “You shouldn't waste energy on people that don't want to learn. But that doesn't mean you should cast them out of your life.” (09:13)
• Push Back Against Isolation, Not Diversity: Don’t let frustration drive you into isolation—diversity of thought and experience enriches your life.
  • "Just enjoy, man. Enjoy the differences that you have with other people instead of letting them frustrate you and you will have a much more enjoyable life." (09:57)

5. Don’t Be a Bore: Real-World Example

• Context Matters: Pushing niche or technical interests (like industry news or insurance regulations) on others outside the proper setting is a recipe for disconnect.
  • Echo: “No one wants to talk about insurance right now. Freaking at the barbecue or whatever, you know…” (11:19)
• Even in SEAL Teams, Not Everyone Cares: Not even elite teammates are always invested in each other’s niche professional obsessions.
  • Jocko: “Even in a SEAL platoon, like I'm super into some new radio that came out…they don't care.” (11:57)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Social Circles and Change
  “You go through stages of evolution. You’re going to get new interests, new hobbies, new focuses...some people are going to come along with you and some people won’t. And that’s the way it works.” — Jocko (02:31)

• On Judgment
  “This question sounds...got a little sprinkle of judgment in there. You feel me? A little sprinkle of judgment. Just a little sprinkle.” — Jocko (07:01)

• On Open-Mindedness
  “If I only hung around with people that thought like me, I’d have zero friends. You know what I mean?” — Jocko (09:54)

• On Enjoying Differences
  “The world is filled with people. None of them are exactly like you. Don’t be frustrated by the differences that you have with other people. Just enjoy, man.” — Jocko (09:57)

• Echo’s Take on Superior Attitude
  “Like you don’t want to learn about what I’ve been studying? How dare you. I’m so superior!” — Echo (10:45)

• On Pushing Interests
  “No one wants to talk about insurance right now. Freaking at the barbecue or whatever, you know…” — Echo (11:19)

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Important Segments (Timestamps)

• Navigating Evolving Social Circles (01:45 – 05:20)
• Embracing Different Lifestyles & Avoiding Judgment (05:22 – 07:59)
• Food Judgment Anecdote & Sensitivity in Giving Advice (08:15 – 09:13)
• How Much Energy to Spend on “Closed-Minded” People (09:13 – 10:38)
• Echo’s Barbecue & Insurance Example (10:38 – 11:37)
• SEAL Team Analogy: Not Everyone Cares About Your Thing (11:37 – 12:03)

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Tone and Language Notes

The episode is candid, practical, and friendly, mixing tough love with humor. Jocko’s emphasis is on humility, patience, and appreciating life’s variety, while Echo injects playful realism. The conversation is filled with personal stories, self-deprecating anecdotes, and direct advice, creating a motivational yet grounded vibe.

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Summary for New Listeners:
Jocko and Echo deliver straight talk on maturing without becoming isolated or arrogant, urging listeners to accept others’ differing interests and focus energies on what (and who) truly matters, all while keeping a sense of humor and a broad mind along the way.

Transcript

[A]

This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 225, sitting here with Echo Charles. And we have a variety of questions from the front. From the front lines of life where people are out there in the trenches trying to make things happen. They need to maneuver their elements out there on the battlefield of life. And we are going to give these questions some answers, some recommendations, or at a minimum, some courses of action that they can follow to win that battle. Y so let's get into it.

[B]

And at the very least, avoid some of the pitfalls.

[A]

Avoid enemy ambushes. Enemy ambushes, Avoid terrible terrain.

[B]

Terrible.

[A]

Get plunging fire upon them.

[B]

I'm here to tell you we're trying

[A]

to watch out for those things.

[B]

Correct. All right, first question. Hello, Chakra. I'm 49, married, and an empty nester. My industry has been going through major changes. I've spent a lot of time studying what's coming because I want to understand it and be prepared. The more I learn, the more I learn though, the more frustrated I become with the people who don't seem interested in learning or even discussing it. I've noticed this mindset spilling into other parts of my life. Instead of trying to convince people, I increasingly keep to myself because it feels easier than arguing with closed minded people. I still work out golf and stay active, but my social circle has gotten much smaller. How do you know when it's wise to stop wasting energy on people who don't want to learn versus when you're becoming too isolated? Is this just a normal part of getting older or is it something I should actively push back against?

[A]

Well, it sounds like. Cool. Sounds like you're getting after it, so that's good. It sounds like you're growing and evolving in the right direction because sometimes people devolve, right? So you gotta watch out for that. So it sounds like you're going in the right direction, so that's good. And when that happens, some of the people in your life and in your world, they don't grow or they don't evolve in the same direction as you might not be the wrong direction, but it might not be the same direction. So they, at that point may begin to fade from your life a little bit. Right. What does that look like? That's the nature of life in general. That's. That's the nature of life in general. You're gonna have people in your life that you all are into crochet, but then you kind of grow out of crochet and you don't really hang around with that person anymore. So that can happen. You go through stages of evolution. You're gonna get new interests, new hobbies, new focuses. You're gonna abandon some of your old focuses, some of your old interests, some of your old hobbies, and some people are gonna come along with you and some people won't. And that's the way it works. And by the way, you will eventually meet some new people that have the same new interests that you have and are in this new hobby that you're into. And, and that might take a little bit of time. It won't happen immediately, but eventually you'll meet a different social circle. Might not be totally different. There'll be some Venn diagram. You know, there'll be some people that you're still into Jiu Jitsu and they're into Jiu Jitsu, but they're also into kayaking and you're into playing guitar. And so the Venn diagram will still overlap in Jiu Jitsu, but, you know, they're not playing guitar with you and you're not going kayaking with them. And that's okay. That's all good. And at some point, your social circle might end up a little bit smaller, but it'll be a little bit tighter with a bunch of people that have some aligned interests. Because you're gonna also have some friends that are into Jiu Jitsu and into Qatar. So that's cool. It might tighten up a little bit. So I don't think you have anything to, you know, be concerned about becoming isolated. Cause you're just gonna find some new friends out there. Now, that being said, I think it's very important to remember to keep an open mind. Because I can tell you what, I have all kinds of different friends. I got all kinds of different. I got, I got friends that are hippies, I got friends that are metalheads. I got friends that are finance bros. I got Jiu Jitsu junkie friends. I got surf bum friends. I got musician friends. I got. I got friends that smoke pot all day long. I got friends that do mushrooms. What's it called? Microdose mushrooms. I've never even done any drugs in my whole life other than caffeine and alcohol. I'm definitely not micro dosing mushrooms all day or doing other hallucinogenics on a regular basis. You see what I'm saying? I got friends that are working construction all day. I got friends that are, are, are, you know, in police, law enforcement, obviously friends that are in the military. I got friends that are millionaires. I got friends that are billionaires. So it's all good. You know, some of my friends have no, you know, to talk about, to talk with them about working out. Wouldn't even, it wouldn't even be a, it would be a mutually unintelligible discussion. Like they wouldn't know what I was talking about.

[B]

Yeah, I understand.

[A]

They would have. No, I could talk about squats and they would not even, they would not know what that means. Yeah, you see what I'm saying? Literally, it's like if you start talking to someone about an umaplada, there's people that have no idea what an umaplada is. There's people that have no idea what a squat is. And I'm friends with all those kind of people and those different people that are all different, that have different interests, they bring different things to the table, man. And I appreciate that. And am I going to, here's the thing, you know, going to, the question here is am I going to argue with somebody that has been micro dosing mushrooms for a decade? Am I going to argue with them and try and change their mind about what they're doing? Can I give you a hint? No, I'm not. Am I going to argue with someone that loves playing music and hasn't, you know, has, has kind of made kind of a partial career out of playing music? You know, maybe they're a music coach or a music instructor, but their band never quite made it and they're kind of getting, you know, am I going to try and convince them that, you know, what you should do is you should get into insurance sales? No, I'm not going to do that. Am I going to talk, you know, I got friends that are crazy left wing liberal. I got friends that are crazy right wing conservative. Am I going to try and bring them more to the center? Nope, I'm not. I'm going to hear their viewpoint. It's going to be interesting to me. I'm going to learn from them. But this question sounds. Got a little sprinkle of judgment in there. You feel me? A little sprinkle of judgment. Just a little sprinkle.

[B]

Right.

[A]

This mindset of, of, you know, arguing with closed minded. They're closed minded. You know, you're working out, you know, wasting energy on people who don't. Of course people don't want to learn. Nobody wants to learn. Apparently you don't want to learn either because you don't want to hear what they have to say. So, so keep that in mind. Don't, don't be super judgmental with people you can learn from anybody. And you know what? I enjoy these different lives that people live, these different perspectives that they have. They tell me stories that are freaking crazy. Like, crazy crazy stories that I enjoy listening to that teach me about the world. So I guess what I'm saying is, you know, as you grow and as you evolve, don't become jaded and don't. Certainly don't get a superiority complex, which is very tempting because. Because, you know, I would say I. When my kids were maybe like, let's say 15 years ago, maybe even 20 years ago, my. I would. I. I had a little bit of the, you know, what is it? The. The. The food Religion, Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, can't believe you're eating sugar.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're giving your K. You know, you're. Oh, you. I don't know if you want to let your kids eat that. I had that, right? And it took me a little. My wife was like, hey, you're not allowed to talk about food with my friends.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, oh, I'm an. You see what I'm saying? Because they don't. They're like, bro, I'm trying. My kids are eating a freaking. They're. They're. You know, I got three kids. They're. They're whatever. Stabbing balloons with knives. Like, things are crazy when you got three kids, you know? And I'm over here, like, really sure they want to eat those Doritos. That's probably not the most. You know what? No, no, no. That's not. That's not my world.

[B]

Leave them alone, bro.

[A]

Now, look, if someone's, like, a really close friend of mine and like, hey, man, we. You know, can you talk to them about nutrition for their kids? You can. Again, danger, Danger. It's a real sensitive topic, especially when you talk about raising kids, because no one wants to, you know, you. Your suggestions can make people mad, so be careful of that. Don't become jaded. The idea of. Let's see, how do you know when it's wise to top. Stop wasting energy on people who don't want to learn? You. You can't. You shouldn't waste energy on people that don't want to learn. But that doesn't mean you should cast them out of your life. You should just not try and walk around trying to educate everybody, because that's not fun for anyone. It's really not even fun for you, apparently so. And you say, is this just part of getting older or is this something I should actively push back against? Yeah, the thing you should push Back against is just like be more open minded. Chill. People aren't going to be on board. Do. If I only hung around with people that fought like me, I'd have zero friends. You know what I mean?

[B]

Accurate.

[A]

I would have zero friends. I would have zero friends. My social circle would be one. Me and my dog too, because he's down. You get single, like, yeah, he's a carnivore. He likes to run, he likes to get after it. He'll attack things, you know. So you see what I'm saying? The world is filled with people. None of them are exactly like you. Don't be frustrated by the differences that you have with other people. Just enjoy, man. Enjoy the differences that you have with other people instead of letting them frustrate you and you will have a much more enjoyable life. And that's what I got.

[B]

Yeah, still. Right. The especially that, that two way street kind of scenario where it's like, oh yeah, they don't. And what did he say? People I get frustrated with. People who don't seem to seem interested in learning or even discussing. Like you don't want to learn about what I'm interested in and what I've been studying. Like how dare you. You know, like I'm so superior. So it's like. And you broug up the, you know, as an example, whatever, insurance, right? Like it's kind of like if you're not into insurance, someone like hey bro, there's some new developments in that insurance, you know, those guidelines and these, these regulations, man, you should see this is this and that. And you're like boring people with your insurance knowledge that you've been studying and you know, seeing on the news like all this stuff and then saying like bro, what's wrong with you? Like this is the future, literally the future. And like you're not entry at what are you ignorant? You know. No, no one wants to talk about insurance right now. Freaking at the barbecue or whatever, you know, this is.

[A]

I mean I'm just guessing. My. Recently my industry has been going through major changes. I spent a lot of time studying what's coming because I want to understand and be prepared. 90 chance this is some AI situation, right? It's a 90. But I remember there to be some, you know, even in a SEAL platoon, like I'm super into some new radio that came out. Yeah, guys, not the radio, man. They're still in a SEAL platoon. They're a frogman.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They need to know how to operate radio. They don't care.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like I do. Yeah, Some new weapon site comes out and the sniper's all fired up. Hey, you guys want to. Hey. I'm going to get the range for tonight. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to Jocko underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this. We're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way. But we. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's Jocko underground dot com. It cost $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email assistanceacounderground.com and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized. Underground.