404 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Calley Means & Casey Means, MD Et al. - Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast

Summary4 min read

Podcast Title: Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast
Episode: 404
Guests: Calley Means & Casey Means, MD Et al.
Release Date: October 17, 2024

Introduction

In Episode 404 of the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast, hosts Adam Thorne and Todd delve deep into their analysis of the latest Joe Rogan Experience episode featuring Calley Means and Casey Means, MD. This episode focuses on the systemic flaws within the modern healthcare system, tracing its roots and examining its current impacts on public health.

Historical Foundations of Modern Medicine

Calley Means begins the discussion by highlighting the Flexner Report of 1909, a pivotal document shaping medical education in the United States.

"[Calley Means, 02:07]: We still follow the Flexner Report as policy. Rescinding the Flexner Report and updating scientific education is a crucial first step."

The report, authored by John D. Rockefeller's personal lawyer, established stringent guidelines that marginalized holistic health practices, branding them as pseudoscience. This foundational shift prioritized disease siloing and pharmaceutical interventions over a more integrated understanding of the human body.

"[Calley Means, 03:13]: John D. Rockefeller is the father of the pharmaceutical industry... created the modern education program for health."

Pharmaceutical Industry Influence

The Means siblings expound on Rockefeller's profound influence over the pharmaceutical sector and medical education:

"[Calley Means, 03:13]: Rockefeller's investments led to the creation of Johns Hopkins and other major medical schools, establishing residency training standards that favored pharmaceutical solutions."

This monopolistic control ensured that pharmaceutical companies remained at the forefront of medical interventions, often at the expense of exploring non-pharmaceutical treatments.

Current Healthcare System Flaws

Adam Thorne and Todd critique the contemporary healthcare landscape, emphasizing its emphasis on symptom management rather than addressing root causes.

"[Adam Thorne, 04:11]: The healthcare system focuses on treating symptoms independently rather than holistic well-being through nutrition, exercise, and stress reduction."

They discuss how this approach has led to an increase in chronic diseases and a dependency on long-term medications, rather than fostering preventive healthcare measures.

Rise in Chronic Diseases and Medical Errors

A significant portion of the episode addresses the alarming rise in chronic conditions and the prevalence of medical errors:

"[Calley Means & Casey Means, 34:29]: Medical error is the third leading cause of death in the United States."

The hosts express frustration over how medical errors are often underreported or categorized ambiguously, making it challenging to address and mitigate these issues effectively.

Impact on Public Health

The discussion transitions to the societal impacts of the flawed healthcare system, particularly focusing on:

Autoimmune Diseases: There's a reported 13% annual increase in autoimmune conditions, which the hosts attribute to poor nutrition and environmental factors.

"[Adam Thorne, 17:24]: Autoimmune diseases are skyrocketing, burdening individuals and the healthcare system alike."
SSRI Usage Among Women: The prevalence of SSRI prescriptions among women stands at 25%, highlighting a reliance on pharmaceuticals to manage mental health instead of exploring holistic treatments.

"[Adam Thorne, 18:21]: 25% of women are on SSRIs, which is a short-term fix but not a long-term solution."

Personal Anecdotes and Experiences

Adam Thorne shares his personal experiences with the healthcare system, emphasizing the disconnect between medical recommendations and patient-centered care:

"[Adam Thorne, 30:23]: Women are pressured into C-sections for financial gain by hospitals, prioritizing profit over patient well-being."

These anecdotes underscore the systemic issues where medical decisions are influenced more by financial incentives than by patient health outcomes.

Recommendations and Solutions

The episode concludes with actionable insights and recommendations to combat the entrenched problems within the healthcare system:

Rescind the Flexner Report: Updating medical education to embrace holistic health practices and integrate modern scientific findings.

"[Calley Means, 02:14]: Rescinding the Flexner Report is essential for modernizing medical education."
Promote Preventive Care: Focusing on nutrition, exercise, sleep, and stress management to prevent diseases rather than merely treating symptoms.

"[Adam Thorne, 17:53]: Emphasizing preventive measures can reduce dependency on medications and improve overall health."
Increase Transparency in Medical Reporting: Addressing and accurately categorizing medical errors to develop effective strategies for reduction.

"[Calley Means, 34:29]: Transparency in medical error reporting is crucial for patient safety and systemic improvement."

Notable Quotes

Calley Means on the Flexner Report:

"[Calley Means, 02:07]: We still follow the Flexner Report as policy. Rescinding the Flexner Report and updating scientific education is a crucial first step."
Adam Thorne on Chronic Disease Management:

"[Adam Thorne, 04:11]: The healthcare system focuses on treating symptoms independently rather than holistic well-being through nutrition, exercise, and stress reduction."
Calley Means on Pharmaceutical Influence:

"[Calley Means, 03:13]: John D. Rockefeller is the father of the pharmaceutical industry... created the modern education program for health."
Adam Thorne on Medical Errors:

"[Adam Thorne, 34:29]: Medical error is the third leading cause of death in the United States."

Conclusion

Episode 404 of the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast offers a compelling critique of the modern healthcare system, tracing its historical roots and highlighting its current shortcomings. Through insightful discussions and personal narratives, Adam Thorne and Todd shed light on the urgent need for systemic reforms to prioritize holistic health and preventive care over profit-driven medical practices. This episode serves as a wake-up call for listeners to advocate for a more transparent, patient-centered healthcare system.

Note: The timestamps correspond to the points in the provided transcript where the quotes and discussions occur.

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Transcript369 lines

[00:02]
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[01:03]
Podcast Host
We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you. Perhaps expand a little bit.
[01:12]
Geico Representative
We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead.
[01:17]
Podcast Host
To Joe's Walking Dead.
[01:18]
Adam Thorne
You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review.
[01:21]
Podcast Host
What a bizarre thing we've created now.
[01:24]
Adam Thorne
With your host Adam Thorne. Might either be the worst podcast or the best one.
[01:30]
Podcast Host
Go enjoy the show.
[01:32]
Casey Means
I think a lot of people listening to us years ago, it's just like this sounds conspiratorial and it's just like what actually happened. And there's a couple like really important dates that happened that are historical that I think like set this structure really intentionally. The first was 1909, the Flexner Report. So literally John D. Rockefeller's personal lawyer wrote the report for Congress that basically set the standard that's the standard today for medical education. And it literally says in the binding guidelines that holistic and holistic health and nutrition and anything about interconnectedness to the body is pseudoscience. It says we need to name the condition and cut it out or prescribe it.
[02:07]
Podcast Host
And what year is this?
[02:08]
Casey Means
1909.
[02:09]
Podcast Host
So they're still going by the recommendations of 1909.
[02:14]
Casey Means
We still follow the Flexi report some a policy. I mean that we could get their policies but. But like rescinding the Flexner Report and having updated scientific education and standard of care guidelines based on what We've learned since 1909 about the majesty of the Interconnectedness of our body is a really good first start because we're binded under a law just demonstrably, just like again, not conspiratorial. John D. Rockefeller's personal lawyer wrote this report. Why? Because John D. Rockefeller is the father of the pharmaceutical industry and created pharmaceuticals from byproducts of oil production and was the first investor into Johns Hopkins and other major medical schools, University of Chicago, and started the modern education program for health. There were some big issues in the health as of the Wild west, but he created Johns Hopkins and the standard of residency training as a way to silo diseases very intentionally and then prescribe his products and interventions as the top pharmaceutical maker.
[03:14]
Podcast Host
There you go. Coming in hot. Coming in hot from the Joe Rogan Experience review. That was Casey Means and Cali Means podcast episode. These two were fascinating. There was so much information in there. It's. It's hard to kind of go through the clips and find what's important. Basically what he was saying there is, how is modern medicine the way that it is? And you know, the Rockefellers got involved. It was money. They could see there was a lot of money to be made and they needed to control how medicine was done. And in all fairness, you know, it did create some systems that have really advanced medicine. But it came. It sounds like it came from a root idea that wasn't maybe necessarily with all good intentions.
[04:12]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. And this podcast in general was one of the most interesting of Joe Rogan that I've ever heard. I mean, my jaw was on the floor basically, as they just dropped statistic after statistic and, you know, and information after information. The bits that they said, it was like, if you want to, like if you want to get angry about what's going on in the health industry, like, listen to this. You know, like it was angering to hear and not that all of the information was new. Like there's some of this has been, you know, spoken about before on the podcast, but the way that they just so eloquently put it all together, starting from the history to, like, how it's affecting us now, to, like, what, you know, you can do to basically get ahead of it and fix it and how it's affecting our political ecosystem, like, the. It was just so interesting. I couldn't look away and. Or, you know, step away from it.
[05:08]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
[05:09]
Adam Thorne
And the information was coming out of these two is like there was coming out and it was like more coming out than they could say. Like they had more than they could speak. And I didn't hear Joe basically, at all, like, he had very little. They had so much going on.
[05:22]
Podcast Host
Well, they had great rants. Yeah, they would go off on a rant. They are obviously very passionate about what they're saying. And then they end it with, what do you think of this? Or like always giving Joe the opportunity to kind of get in there. But really, this was just a moment monologue between the two of them. And it was, it was fine. They were excellent. They had a lot to say. The fact that they kept that energy up the entire time, I think they could have spoke for like six hours.
[05:48]
Adam Thorne
Oh, my gosh.
[05:49]
Podcast Host
And I have to say that they're brave people. You know, anyone that stands up against the state of the medical profession today, you're under scrutiny. You know, I'm amazed that people are brave enough to do it after Covid, because Covid shut down so many voices that were sure that they knew what they were talking about and they cared about medicine and they wanted to help people. So they gave warnings and they were just basically thrown out of the medical world. It's, it's nice to see people standing up against, you know, and it, they don't always have to be right as well. Like, I like these dissenting voices that eventually found out to be wrong. But at least they're trying. At least they're brave enough to say, hey, I'm looking at this evidence and it doesn't make sense. It's going to make you a target. I mean, some of the things they brought up. Sodas are the most bought things on food stamps.
[06:41]
Adam Thorne
Sodas, that's insane.
[06:43]
Podcast Host
It seems like, okay, the people that have the food stamps get to choose what they want, right? That's their freedom to choose this stuff.
[06:53]
Adam Thorne
Right?
[06:54]
Podcast Host
But they're obviously not getting good information if that's the primary thing that they want to buy.
[07:01]
Adam Thorne
Well, let me, let me put it this way. So there's. When you're, when you're on like a subsidized food programs, right? There's food stamps, EBT, they call it in most states. And then there's wic, which is like women, infants and children and so personally having a new baby. When I had my baby, they insisted that I got on this program, didn't necessarily need the food, like the cost subsidy of it. But I was like, well, you know, food is so expensive. Everything's so expensive right now. Why not? Like, let's just see what it's about. One, it's not easy to get on. There's like, I mean, it's not that it's not easy. It's not easy to maintain. Right. And then it's like very complicated when you go to the store to use wic, I would say so, like food stamps is different. So WIC is like, you know, they tell you exactly what you can buy. And as I'm like trying to navigate this and be like, how do I take advantage of this best? It's like extremely well. Even in my like opinion, just in my opinion, I guess it was pretty complicated. But the food that they offer you on it is just garbage. I mean, just juice, you know, bread, like whole, like white, whole wheat bread kind of thing. Like just, it's all these processed foods that you, when you're in a, in the postpartum period or you're thinking of trying to feed it to your child. Like, it's just not stuff that I would want to feed her. The only good thing about the WIC program was the produce that they give you and it's like $30 a month, which gets you nowhere anymore, you know, and you.
[08:30]
Podcast Host
Right.
[08:30]
Adam Thorne
And it's non organic produce and so on. Food stamps, on the other hand is you can basically buy anything. And it's up to the, I mean basically like, you know, each individual grocery store decides what you can have. But the like, the fact that you can buy soda with food stamps, it's like, what is the, what is the purpose of this? Is it to help people eat better and healthfully, like healthfully, or is it to like make them sicker? Because in, you know, some people need some more guidance when it comes to their nutrition and these state programs that help drive people to buy certain foods or to help them buy foods. It's like, why is there no, there's no education when it comes to like food stamps. There's no anything.
[09:20]
Podcast Host
I think that's, that's the key takeaway, you know, in order to qualify each week.
[09:25]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[09:26]
Podcast Host
And you know, I know people that are struggling are also often busy. Maybe they're, you know, they, they're strapped out just with the stress in their life. Yeah, it's harder to focus, it's harder to get organized. Maybe they do have at least some jobs that are paying them very little and they still qualify for these things. So time is an issue and you may have kids and there the rest of it. But if you had to do 30 minutes of Sat down just learning about nutrition.
[09:53]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[09:53]
Podcast Host
Take a little quiz. That's not difficult. But it does mean that you watch the video so you understand the difference between sugar and fruit or Sugar in a soda. You know.
[10:04]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[10:04]
Podcast Host
That some fats are healthy.
[10:07]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[10:07]
Podcast Host
And X, Y and Z. Right. I think that that could be really beneficial.
[10:12]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[10:12]
Podcast Host
Like it might not fix it overnight, but at least it's something.
[10:15]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[10:16]
Podcast Host
Instead of just giving them cards and saying, here's your choices. And they're like, well, I've always loved soda. Yes, of course. Everyone does.
[10:23]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[10:24]
Podcast Host
Like, even people that don't drink it today. Like, I don't drink soda very rarely.
[10:28]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[10:29]
Podcast Host
I had a sip of your Coke Zero yesterday. I might buy a Dr. Pepper on a road trip.
[10:34]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[10:34]
Podcast Host
Like sometimes that's good.
[10:36]
Adam Thorne
Got it.
[10:37]
Podcast Host
Actually doesn't mean I don't like sodas.
[10:39]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[10:40]
Podcast Host
I just know how freaking awful they are. I got in the habit of not drinking them.
[10:44]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[10:45]
Podcast Host
It's golden.
[10:46]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[10:46]
Podcast Host
But you could, you can just slip right back into it.
[10:49]
Adam Thorne
Like, they're very addictive and I think ultimately like the food system in America. They. Callie and Casey, they talked a lot about that and how broken that is on top of the healthcare system and how they're basically like.
[11:00]
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[14:00]
Adam Thorne
In Cahoots to like, destroy our health and to not make us ultimately like healthy. It's, you know, feed you, make money off of you eating right, and then fix each symptom that you have independently. And that sort of goes back to what Brick and Breweller was talking about last week, I believe, where it was like, you know, there's, there's this very horizontal system like, like if it was a vertical healthcare system in each provider and there, you know, specialists work together and things like that to actually like find the root cause. It would all come back. It would all come back to, you know, nutrition, exercise, sleep, you know, stress reduction, like very normal things that we can all manage on our own. And it doesn't require medication, it doesn't require a lifelong prescription, it doesn't require surgery, it doesn't requ like severe medical intervention. It just comes back to education from the get go and primary care of like, you know, educating people on these things. And that's where like our public school education system and in general the health care system has failed Americans. There's absolutely none of that and there's no incentive to take care of those things. They mentioned on the, I think it was Cali said, you know, in their, both of them, you know, in their nine years of medical school, never once were they told they could write a prescription for diet and exercise. They only were taught and told they could write prescriptions for like medications.
[15:34]
Podcast Host
I didn't know that they could do that.
[15:36]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, like they can write a prescription. MD can write a prescription for exercise and you can use like, you know, tax deductible allocated funds like your HSA for a gym membership. So when you go on Amazon or you know, you go to certain stores and there's like the little HSA eligible, that means your HSA funds can be used to purchase it. It's typically vitamins, sometimes it's like supplement foods. It's like low fat or low calorie things, sugar free stuff.
[16:03]
Podcast Host
Like could you use your insurance too? I mean it is a prescription. You just pay your co pay and then go get the most expensive gym membership you can find.
[16:11]
Adam Thorne
Well, every insurance plan is different. So probably some of the higher lose the term has lost me.
[16:19]
Podcast Host
Insurance plans?
[16:20]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, like when you pay like your premium, the higher premium ones potentially include a gym membership. They also typically include a nutritionist. That's a lot of people don't know that, that your insurance plan actually involved like you pay for like six visits with the nutritionist a year. They just don't make it easy for you to do that because they don't make money off of you going to the nutritionist. They make money off of you going to the pharmacy, getting a prescription and then being paid by the pharmacy 80% of what you pay them for that prescription.
[16:48]
Podcast Host
Right.
[16:49]
Adam Thorne
So it's, it's absolutely fucked, excuse my French. But like it's so messed up that it's this like revolving door of, you know, problems and solutions. But the real solution is like 10 steps back.
[17:01]
Podcast Host
Yeah. I mean it makes sense that you're frustrated that I could hear it in your voice. It's like this is incredibly frustrating to hear that we're all under this system.
[17:11]
Adam Thorne
Right, Right.
[17:12]
Podcast Host
And this is how it works. These people are speaking out against it and it's like, then you also see how much work there is to do. Then you hear stats like autoimmune disease going up 13% per year.
[17:24]
Adam Thorne
Mind boggling.
[17:25]
Podcast Host
That's a credit card debt. Like that's like the APR on a credit card.
[17:30]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[17:31]
Podcast Host
You know, pretty good credit card these days, but still not good. You don't want a 13% loan. You wouldn't want a mortgage that high. And that's the increase in autoimmune.
[17:41]
Adam Thorne
Right, right.
[17:42]
Podcast Host
Which is where human beings immune systems are in a sense. I don't know if the word is attacking your system, but they're Just over working. They're overreacting.
[17:54]
Adam Thorne
Well, you hear about like everyone these days has eczema. Everyone has like psoriasis. Everyone has this autoimmune disease that made them, you know, makes their life more difficult.
[18:01]
Podcast Host
Well, they're allergic to everything.
[18:03]
Adam Thorne
Everything.
[18:04]
Podcast Host
Peanuts, gluten.
[18:05]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[18:05]
Podcast Host
Sunshine.
[18:06]
Adam Thorne
And it's like there is a root cause of that. It's not just we're evolving to be more. Have more autoimmune diseases. Like. No, it's it's the, the what's going in is producing poor output for us as humans. Like especially in America.
[18:21]
Podcast Host
What about 25% of women on SSRIs. That seems like a lot.
[18:27]
Adam Thorne
It seems like a lot. But I would say if I had to think about 1 in 4 gals that I know. Yeah, they're on it. I mean, it's so easy. You know, it's the same thing. Like as soon as you.
[18:38]
Podcast Host
Does it help?
[18:40]
Adam Thorne
I mean, potentially, I think, and they talked about this in the short term, potentially, there are those people that like, it can really set them up for success when they're in a really bad spot. Right. And. But I don't think that's. I mean, that's not the ultimate solution and it's not a good long term solution. Right. The long term solution is the same thing we're talking about over and over. Exercise, nutrition, sunlight, sleep, you know, stress reduction.
[19:05]
Podcast Host
It is kind of wild though, that depression is at a measured highest level ever. Not to say it really is. I'm sure plenty of times in the past all of the people were depressed because there was the plague or something really sucked. But now people are getting diagnosed and the numbers, they count them. This is like the highest point. It's also the safest time to ever live.
[19:29]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[19:29]
Podcast Host
You know, well, she.
[19:31]
Adam Thorne
Casey went on this or not? Not. I want to call it a rant because it was in a very educational spiel that she went on about, oh, rants are good.
[19:38]
Podcast Host
Then I'm negative rant.
[19:39]
Adam Thorne
I rant all about why young women are starting puberty and getting their periods so early, why we feel the need to regulate their hormones with birth control, why, you know, men are feeling like they're less masculine. And it's basically like we're in this like, cesspool of estrogen. And it starts with nutrition. And then it comes down to, you know, what, like, like general nutrition and sugars in our food and how sugar turns into estrogen essentially in our system, in our digestive system, in our metabolic system. And then talking about how we the estrogens in our food, you know, just in general. And then like, you know, less exercise creates more estrogen in your body. So all of these things sort of combine to, as a population, make us like have more estrogen. And the estrogen makes you depressed. Like, it's like the worst thing when, when you have a menstrual cycle, when your estrogen is the highest, it's when you feel the worst, it's when you're sad, it's when you eat the most, it's when you bloated, it's when you're like, you know, just like not in a good spot. And you know, women experience this normally, regularly, you know, once they're menstruating, once a month. And yet we're basically elevating it to a point where they're experiencing it all the time.
[20:51]
Podcast Host
Right? Well, like they were saying, you know, they weren't taught anything about the benefits of sunlight or sleep and nutrition, which to me sounds like if you get those things down in a healthy routine, you probably will do better regulating your hormones and your estrogen levels than any medication that they're going to give you.
[21:11]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, and that's like, so when women end up in a place or you know, what's a 25% of women aren't SSRIs. Like, I can see that because they're in this elevated estrogen state all the time. They're always feeling like the world is like on their shoulders. They're feeling just their high stress, sleeping poorly, they can't focus at work, all of these things. And so giving them this, it's like this short term fix. And then the problem is that they're on it long term. They also talked about how birth control was the first pill developed for long term use. Like it was the only pill to be stayed on for a long period of time. And they started giving it to women and basically saw it as like a cash cow. It was like, wow, we can prescribe this one time, we can convince this woman to take it once, she can be on it forever.
[22:02]
Podcast Host
Yeah, the forever medication is really like the greatest financial decision they could have ever made.
[22:11]
Adam Thorne
And so then I think from there.
[22:12]
Podcast Host
And the byproduct is almost every medication that has ever been made and taken for a long period of time causes a whole bunch of its own side effects. You know, like it would be it, for example, if you're a vitamin company, even if the vitamins aren't that good, if you're on it forever, that's a benefit.
[22:36]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[22:36]
Podcast Host
That's a benefit to your life. And if insurance companies paid for that, it would be like, that's a benefit. Everyone should get their little pot of different vitamins. And if you don't take them, you don't need to, and. But you're on it. But instead they're like, take this medication for your blood pressure or your heart or whatever it is. Your skin.
[22:57]
Adam Thorne
Diabetes. Yeah. It's. It's terrible. And then, you know, they talked about how the standard of care is not to, like, when someone has diabetes, it's not to cure their diabetes. It's to put them on a strict, regular, like, Medicaid medication regimen. And so when they get, like, scored, like, from, like, the. I can't even tell you what. In what, like, you know, governing body, but when they basically have to report they have 200 patients with diabetes and they're. They're not, like, they're not scored on how many of those patients they help cure their type 2 diabetes. Right. Like, type 1 diabetes, different type 2 diabetes, type 3 diabetes. It's not. Their. Their goal is not to reverse it. Their goal is to properly and effectively medicate that person. And if they can report that they're on a consistent, like, regimen of medications for that, then they get scored high.
[23:58]
Podcast Host
Right. And saying, hey, I got half of these people on a really solid keto diet.
[24:04]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[24:04]
Podcast Host
So they have no sugars in their system.
[24:06]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[24:07]
Podcast Host
You know, their glycogen levels are never spiking. You know, their insulin is. It's all working, and we've been able to reverse this process, and they're far healthier.
[24:18]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[24:19]
Podcast Host
You know, it's just so much of this Band Aid mentality for a shitload of money. And then these pharmaceutical companies are praised in the sense of, like, oh, Pfizer's here to save us.
[24:30]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[24:31]
Podcast Host
And it's like, hold on.
[24:33]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[24:33]
Podcast Host
Like, what an amazing trick, though.
[24:35]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[24:36]
Podcast Host
That these companies, like the Sackler family and the opioid crisis, like, they're seen as the places that make medicine. They're the pharmacy, they're the science, they're the brains. They're here to help you when really, it's just, we're making a shitload of money. We're trying not to get sued. We're making sure we have immunity from being sued.
[24:55]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[24:56]
Podcast Host
And, oh, yeah, a lot of people died.
[24:58]
Adam Thorne
Oh, it's so hard. This. This podcast is hard to listen to, but it's also like, you can't turn it off because, you know, you Know, there's again, I could just go with example after example of things that they said. But Cal Casey said, you know, she was a surgeon and she put her scalpel down and walked away. And she said that sort of multiple times in different ways. Like it was so moving for her to realize that, you know, there's this saying in surgeons that you, you eat what you kill and so the more surgeries you complete, the more money you make. And she, you know, realized that, that like, even though there was a non surgical option to like fix something like a small type of cancer or you know, potential cancerous, you know, something like that, they're, they're encouraged to do the surgery, to do invasive surgery and then put someone on like, you know, hospitalization essentially and to like go through this whole. To make them and their hospital money because there costs more money to do a surgery and people will pay more money to do a surgery than to just like be prescribed diet and exercise or like a new nutrition plan. Right. And so it's, she just said like, she, once she realized that, she was like, this is what's broken and I'm walking away from being a surgeon.
[26:14]
Podcast Host
I wonder how many other doctors are this disillusioned because one thing is they have a lot of student debt.
[26:22]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[26:23]
Podcast Host
Which they want to pay off. They've worked really hard, so now they want to keep that prestige. They want to be seen by their colleagues as being good at their job, especially the people they work for, which are the hospitals. And that's just like a board of directors and people that want to make a ton of money for the hospital, you know, and on top of that, they want to play their part in the system of medicine and be helpful.
[26:49]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[26:49]
Podcast Host
But like, let's say that you do C sections cesareans in hospitals. You're that surgeon. And all these women are coming in and it's like, where's the fine line between you being like very honest and being like, you don't really need this and this will limit your ability to have more kids in the future.
[27:11]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[27:11]
Podcast Host
You know, after a point. And it is more dangerous than just a regular vaginal birth. Yet if you're known in that hospital as being that surgeon that's constantly talking people out of this surgery, it's better.
[27:26]
T-Mobile Representative
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[27:55]
Adam Thorne
Cascade Natural Gas believes a warm home, hot water and natural gas energy should be available to everyone. That's why Cascade established the Oregon Low Income Bill Assistance and Energy Discount Programs. These programs provide income qualified applicants a discount on their monthly bill and if needed, help with past due balances. Qualifying for assistance is easy by calling Cascade or any of our partner community action agencies. Get complete bill assistance info@cngc.com help even.
[28:27]
Podcast Host
Though it's the best, most ethical medical advice you could give to the woman and the child, and just in general, it could be seen as like, that's the. We don't want you doing that. We need you leaning a little. Your numbers are down this month. What's going on? Yeah, and those pressures start to build.
[28:46]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, the. There's a book, I think it's called the Birth, the Business of Birth or something like that. And it talks about how that's essentially it that the hospitals cranking people in and out to deliver them. They make the most money in the shortest amount of time with C sections.
[29:03]
Podcast Host
And you know, it's your scheduled birth.
[29:05]
Adam Thorne
You're scheduled. There's no, no guesswork. No guesswork. You know, even me, like, I went in to having my child knowing that I did not want to be medicated. I did not want pain medications. I wanted to do it naturally. I wanted, you know, and then we went seven, eight days past my due date. It was my first child. So I was like, I want to see this baby. Like get me in. You know, and they basically, I want you to hit 40 weeks or like consider this, decide what day you want to be scheduled and we'll induce you. Well, the induction, as me and many of the women that I know have had an induction, went terribly labored for 36 hours. So that's over 24 hours already that I'm in the hospital. They don't want that. They want you in delivering that baby and they want you out in within 48 hours. And so when you go in for a scheduled C section, they make that happen. It's just in their control and like. But that's the thing about birth is it's not predictable always and that you can't rush it. Some people have a Baby in an hour. Some people, it takes them two or three days. And had I.
[30:05]
Podcast Host
It does feel like even though they're working hard and not to slam where we went, I think that the people there did a great job.
[30:12]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[30:13]
Podcast Host
But what it seemed like to me is that they were good at pretending. They had a lot of patience.
[30:20]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[30:21]
Podcast Host
But really behind those eyes, they wanted to get going.
[30:24]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[30:24]
Podcast Host
Have you ever been into a store or, like, had a salesperson working with you that's like, hey, take your time. Do what you need. But you can tell in their mind, they're like, sign the fucking document. Buy the sweater. Like, get the thing. We need to get moving.
[30:38]
Adam Thorne
Yep.
[30:39]
Podcast Host
And there was a lot of that pressure, for sure.
[30:42]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. And I. And I think that it just is a reflection of, you know, again, reiterating the broken healthcare system that we're working with. And I feel for those people who, you know, maybe don't have as much support going into it. You know, like, I was able to, the people that were there with me be like, don't let this happen. It ultimately happened because. But it was like, don't let them just do it without me approving it.
[31:07]
Podcast Host
Right.
[31:07]
Adam Thorne
Like an epidural. Like, I was like, I don't want that. I don't want that. And then almost instantly I was like, give it to me. Because the induction made me, like, crawl up a wall in pain. Like, I was like, someone knocked me out. I'm so in so much pain. And it was because this artificial induction of labor. And. Yeah. I mean, it's. It's sad that women are experiencing that. Sad that women aren't able to, like, take control of their health, you know, in their. Their own healthcare in that way. And the healthcare system is sort of like, directing it. But, you know, same thing with birth control. It's like there are less like.
[31:39]
Podcast Host
And that's not even the worst example. Like, a lot less babies and mothers die today than ever before. Like, it's incredible system. Like that used to be the biggest issue.
[31:50]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[31:51]
Podcast Host
For people was like mothers dying during labor or just lots of babies dying. So, yeah. Huge improvements. Is it perfect? No. Is it the biggest issue? I don't think it's as bad.
[32:02]
Adam Thorne
That being said, there, America is not at the top of the, like, It's. It's like 13th in, like, you know, infant mortalities. Like, you would think we'd be like, super low in, like, having. You know, you'd think all these other, like, second world countries would be at. No, like, we actually have more infant and Mother mortality rate, like a higher infant and mother mortality rate than some countries. And you'd be really surprised. I'd have to look at a chart to tell you.
[32:29]
Podcast Host
But even if we're at 13, it's a lot better than it used to be.
[32:32]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[32:33]
Podcast Host
Like, yeah, should America be number one? But I mean, when it comes to healthcare, I think for the elites, if you have plenty of money and really good insurance. Sure. But it still doesn't get away from the fact that, you know, the way the system is set up, it leads to chronic disease diagnosis. You know, this increase in. To keep people on pills. And then on top of that, we've got like mass synthetic chemicals in our foods.
[32:59]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, right.
[33:00]
Podcast Host
Which it just so hard to avoid. Unless you are literally just shopping at the produce section and then going to a good butcher. But there's a lot of time that that takes and a lot of extra money.
[33:15]
Adam Thorne
I mean, I don't want to give away all the. All the bits of gold in this podcast. I think. I think it's worth a listen to. For everyone. I think, you know, I had all these people going through my head, my family, you know, my friends that I wanted to send this to and be like, listen to this. Like, if you are confused as to why you don't feel well, this is why. You know, it's because the health care system has failed us. And here's how you sort of. This is like a kickstart to like, getting angry about it and taking it into your own hands. But, you know, one thing that really shocked me that we heard was that medical error is the third biggest killer of people, of all causes of death. And we tried to talk about this, like, how do you rate all causes of death on a chart together? Right. Like, how do you do, like, you know, chronic disease, motor vehicle accidents, you know, in terms of like, context and make it like a consistent, like, control all the variables. Right. To say, like, this is actually like the biggest killer, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. But the idea that medical error could cause so many deaths that it's like, up there and that, like the third, you know, in that category of, like, the third biggest. It's like, absolutely. So frustrating and just like, infuriating. Frustrating is not even the right word. Like, absolutely.
[34:29]
Podcast Host
They conveniently leave it off a lot of those metrics.
[34:33]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[34:33]
Podcast Host
They feel like it falls in a different category.
[34:36]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[34:36]
Podcast Host
And they're just like, well, you know, these people came to us sick. We were doing our best.
[34:40]
Adam Thorne
Right, right, right, right.
[34:41]
Podcast Host
You know.
[34:41]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. But, you know, and then even like Tylenol, like, what was this? What was it like? Die from Tylenol.
[34:48]
Podcast Host
Taking. Taking the right, correct prescribed amount per year. Yeah, I can't remember what the number is. I think it was high though. It was like 12, 000.
[34:56]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, 12 or 13, 000 maybe.
[34:58]
Podcast Host
It was a lot crazy.
[34:59]
Adam Thorne
So, yeah. Highly recommend listening to this podcast from beginning to end. And you know, there's. There's nothing. You won't regret it. I mean, I can't. I want to listen to it again. Honestly, if it wasn't three hours long. Well, actually it wasn't that long. It was only two and a half, wasn't it?
[35:16]
Podcast Host
I think so. But yeah, those two care about health or you want to learn more about it?
[35:21]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, these two, they have a book, they have a company called Truman Enables tax free hsa, FSA spending on supplements, exercise and healthy food. Good Energy is a book they, that's co written between Callie and Casey Means Siblings coming out, came out in May. And then they focus on media and advocacy about the broken incentives of the healthcare system, informed by their early career as a consultant for the pharmaceutical and food industries. Such a great.
[35:52]
Podcast Host
I mean, you're very, very good.
[35:53]
Adam Thorne
Very, very good.
[35:54]
Podcast Host
And oh, just an Update. It's not 12,000, it's 500 deaths per year that's taking, I don't know what dosage, but 56,000 emergency department visits, 2600 hospitalizations. But my point there is that's a medication that.
[36:10]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[36:11]
Podcast Host
Shouldn't affect you too much.
[36:12]
Adam Thorne
No.
[36:13]
Podcast Host
And is over the counter. And you know, I don't think we.
[36:18]
Adam Thorne
Can get off this, this podcast without talking about, you know, RFK and his sort of enthusiasm behind this movie, his.
[36:26]
Podcast Host
Push to kind of redefine what health is, what nutrition is. You know, take a really good, hopefully unbiased and unpaid for approach to the food pyramid.
[36:41]
Adam Thorne
Yep.
[36:41]
Podcast Host
And you know, I think that for the United States, that would be an incredible direction. Look, if Harris gets in, that direction's not being taken. No, they're not going to do anything about it. They won't even say anything about health or nutrition or how people should eat. Even though they are representing most of the people on EBT buying those sodas.
[37:06]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[37:06]
Podcast Host
They don't do anything to help them. And Trump is saying, hey, I want to work with rfk. I want to give him this platform.
[37:15]
Adam Thorne
To fix things 100%. My only concern is that it's not necessarily something Trump is like, like pioneer or like, you know, like championed as like something that he's like so, so passionate about. He's like, I will take other people's like, enthusiasm forward with this. So like he started bringing people Trump.
[37:33]
Podcast Host
So no, it's the RFK is doing.
[37:35]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. So he's, you know, how, how much.
[37:37]
Podcast Host
Trump just trusts him and wants those votes.
[37:40]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[37:40]
Podcast Host
And it's like, let's do it.
[37:42]
Adam Thorne
And I'm not. All I'm saying is that I just so curious to see, you know, whoever makes it in office, whoever gets there, what they actually do, whether they take this serious or not, you know, whether they've said. I mean, there's a lot of things people say in a political campaign that they don't actually act on 100% and, and you.
[37:59]
Podcast Host
And that is important. You do need to the system that after they've had a few years and see, like, what went well, what isn't working well and what. Who are they trying to blame it on? Because that's also something that is like there's so much blame now. It's like the Biden administration, basically everything that's going wrong for them that just tried to blame on Trump.
[38:24]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[38:24]
Podcast Host
Four years ago.
[38:25]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[38:25]
Podcast Host
And it's like, what kind of game is that? How do you prove that you're actually good at something?
[38:29]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[38:30]
Podcast Host
Like if a CEO takes over from another CEO of a company, they don't have long to turn things around. The same as a coach on a football team. They don't have long. You don't even get the whole season to turn it around. It's always your fault.
[38:44]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[38:44]
Podcast Host
You inherit this problem.
[38:46]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[38:47]
Podcast Host
The reason you got hired is to fix it.
[38:49]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[38:49]
Podcast Host
So fix it. If you don't, don't be trying to blame the last coach.
[38:53]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. And lastly, I think it's so interesting, you know, we've seen a lot about, you know, Trump made a comment. Who was it. Who was it that he said that he would. That he would be down to go on Joe Rogan? Who was it?
[39:08]
Podcast Host
The. I don't know, these two little nerds.
[39:11]
Adam Thorne
Oh, yeah. But anyways, they said, you got to go on Joe Rogan. And he's like, oh, yeah, I'll do it. I'm going to do it. So we'll see.
[39:16]
Podcast Host
I think we're in.
[39:17]
Adam Thorne
I think they're going to do it. And then I saw that, you know, the Harris campaign is in talks of going on Joe Rogan too. So we'll see.
[39:24]
Podcast Host
We'll see if kin zero chance that's gonna happen if that happens.
[39:28]
Adam Thorne
Why do you say that?
[39:29]
Podcast Host
Because what they're gonna do. They have to control everything. It'd be like when they did the debate. Supposedly she got all the questions. She's gonna talk about what she can. Like you. We can talk about this. We can't talk about that because that's how all media works. But Rogan doesn't work like that.
[39:45]
Adam Thorne
Okay. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It'd be super interesting to allow it. If she makes it on there, she both makes it on.
[39:51]
Podcast Host
Brave as hell. If she goes on for three hours and Joe can just go in any direction.
[39:56]
Adam Thorne
I can't imagine they would talk for three hours. I think both of them, even Trump would say an hour.
[40:00]
Podcast Host
You get an hour is not long enough. He won't do it for an hour. He's not doing it.
[40:04]
Adam Thorne
You don't think he would talk to these.
[40:05]
Podcast Host
No, because it's not enough time. Joe has to hold that. Honestly, I'll be disappointed in him if he agrees to it just for an hour because that means that he's willing to just. Just like make an exception against the most important rule on his. His whole theory, which is three hours is what it takes to get to the bottom of what someone is thinking. And it kind of is true. There's like an hour of warm up before you really get anywhere. They're just like a bunch of speeches and talking points. Yes, it will be interesting.
[40:40]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[40:41]
Podcast Host
But you don't get to who the person really is. And unless you're into two and three hours of conversation, trust me, I've been doing this a long time and reviewing these.
[40:51]
Adam Thorne
You're usually right about like 50% of things. So I'll give you.
[40:54]
Podcast Host
Okay, yeah, this is in the 50 category.
[40:57]
Adam Thorne
Okay. For me.
[40:58]
Podcast Host
Guaranteed.
[40:59]
Adam Thorne
But regardless, I'm super excited to see if that happens. Both of them. I want to hear both of their sides. You know, sort of like unscripted, you.
[41:05]
Podcast Host
Know, look, let's save this for when they actually go on that.
[41:08]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, yeah.
[41:08]
Podcast Host
But I agree, it's pretty exciting talking about what policies and things can actually happen and you know, what people do when they get into power. We've got Michael Schellenberg next. Michael's great. He's been on a bunch of times. I think he's an excellent journalist. Was very left until basically Covid stuff and free speech was getting kind of attacked. I want to start with a little clip of him just describing the party that he kind of moved away from. So let's jump into that.
[41:42]
Michael Schellenberger
But it's kind of like, you know, back in the 90s, we were anti war, pro free speech, and pro. And pro gay rights.
[41:47]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[41:48]
Michael Schellenberger
Now the left is. Is pro censorship, pro war, and engaged in horrible medical mistreatment of gay children in the name of trans medicine. So it's like, literally, like, who changed here? You know, my values did stay the same, at least on those things. But anyway, I mean, I sat across from him and I just said, you know, everybody says that you're going to turn Brazil into Cuba. He does love Fidel Castro. But he said, absolutely not. He does. Seriously, they're like, they're bros. No, they're bros.
[42:17]
Podcast Host
I mean, all right. So, you know, he works into the Twitter files, Brazil, and talking with the leadership down there and kind of the censorship that's been happening. But he brings up an interesting point that I think many people feel, I certainly do, about what it is to be left and be Democrat. I mean, I have been my entire life. Came over from England to the US as basically a socialist almost, you know, or even Green Party.
[42:49]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[42:50]
Podcast Host
I would say vegetarian, animal loving, save the whale, save the whip, be a hippie. I mean, I was 13, and a lot of these rules came from my dad, which, you know, you just follow your dad's shit until you figure out what you want to believe. But, yeah, stayed as a Democrat, like, all through the 90s, you know, into 2000s. And there were elements of the Republican parties that I understood, you know, Second Amendment. Things started to resonate with me as I got into hunting and, you know, I just liked the fact that America still had this thing that most of the developed world was banning and getting rid of. And I was like, I wonder if there is a balance here. Like, can we be trusted to it? Does it empower the people? I have to watch other countries and how they react and, like, how well they're able to oppress their people. And can that happen in the U.S. turns out that Americans can be oppressed real quick. Covid was like, that guns did not help us.
[43:59]
Adam Thorne
No.
[44:01]
Podcast Host
But, yeah, it does seem like the party has moved for me, you know, and I think what it is, is we can get more progressive over time. And that's what the left does. So maybe there's this element of like, well, I just wasn't progressive enough to keep up with these changes that they've made as they've got more progressive. Or it's that the people that go along with these things are just waiting for their party to educate them on what they should believe.
[44:33]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[44:33]
Podcast Host
Right. So if that is the case, it's like the woke stuff Starts to happen, and then it's like, no, this is why it's so important. And if you watch enough CNN or liberal media, we slowly indoctrinate you into these ideas. Whereas some other people that are like, hey, hey, we're about free speech, this other stuff doesn't seem to match anything that we've been doing. Where are you guys going? And the whole party just leaves.
[45:01]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[45:02]
Podcast Host
It's like you're in no man land for a while, and unless you can go with an rfk, who else are you going to go with? Yeah, and I think fundamentally, things like the First Amendment is very important to people, people that really understand it. Because a lot of times when I'm discussing that with people that are still very much on the left and they are kind of making some excuses about how there should be certain censorship, and, you know, we've got to be careful about what really free speech is anyway. And hate speech is a big problem. Most of that narrative is not coming from them. I know these people. I've discussed things with them for a long time. Yeah, it's coming from that training that, you know, the left media gives them, because these are little talking points. It's clever. And then I'm like, hey, these are problems. Like, we all have agreed in the past, like, this was never even up for debate 10 years ago that freedom of speech should go away in any degree. There should be no censorship when it comes to, like, what happens on social media or when it comes towards political party stuff. I mean, we just had the Twitter files. That's why Elon bought Twitter, because the FBI was stopping social media companies from giving away certain pieces of information that would have negatively impacted the left. That's a crazy thing. And now something similar is happening down in Brazil. And because the leadership down there is more powerful in terms of how much censorship and control they have, They've banned him. They banned Twitter down there?
[46:46]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. I mean, one thing. And then I think we'll get back to Schellenberger. But I was. You were talking. I'm like, you know, I was thinking about a few. A few weeks ago, months ago, we were driving together and we saw a sign. It was like, vote blue no matter what. You know, Harris Walls. I think there was like a buttigieg. Someone else, you know, sign in this yard, and it was down in Texas. So, you know, definitely, you know, I mean, it was in Dallas. So it was more of a blue county but red state kind of thing. But the idea of voting for the party, no matter what, you Know, five years ago I would have said, heck yeah, you gotta vote blue no matter what. You know, you gotta do this. But when it, when you're looking at how the parties are actually shifting so drastically what they are standing for and you know, it made me question like, is there a quiz out there that I can take that says I believe in this, this, this, this, this. And it tells me which party currently active, which candidate that's currently active is advocating for those things. Not what is being talked about, not what is, you know, historically happened, but what is currently being promised by these parties and is the current, like, you know, agenda item for them.
[48:03]
Podcast Host
Right.
[48:03]
Adam Thorne
And there is, there's multiple quizzes out there. And so when we're done here, I'm going to get on and I'm going to take these quizzes and I mean, I have an idea of what it's going to say, but you just never know. And you know, definitely it's better over here.
[48:16]
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[49:14]
I
Hi, I'm Chris Gethard and I'm very excited to tell you about Beautiful Anonymous, a podcast where I talk to random people on the phone. I tweet out a phone number, thousands of people try to call, I talk to one of them. They stay anonymous. I can't hang up. That's all the rules. I never know what's going to happen. We get serious ones. I've talked with meth dealers on their way to prison. I've talked to people who survived mass shootings, crazy funny ones. I talked to a guy with a goose laugh, somebody who dresses up as a pirate on the weekends. I never Know what's gonna happen. It's a great show. Subscribe today. Beautiful. Anonymous.
[49:44]
Adam Thorne
You know, having a party that's in the middle because everything is shifting so much. Like perhaps there is this like sort of anchor in the middle of a Green party. But, you know, RFK was the only. Was it RFK that was pulling at 20% and like, that was like the most any green or, you know, Independent. Independent party has ever polled. And so no doubt, you know, it's unlikely, but perhaps if there was something like that. Whereas, like when you went to vote, like, what if you did this? You went to vote and you took a quiz and you said, I believe in this, this, this, this, this. Not I believe in this candidate or this candidate.
[50:21]
Podcast Host
Now that actually would be amazing. Wouldn't that be like a personality quiz that you took?
[50:26]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[50:27]
Podcast Host
And then it just from the end of it is like, oh, you are 75% Republican.
[50:32]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[50:33]
Podcast Host
25%, you know, Democrat value. So that's how we break your vote up.
[50:38]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[50:38]
Podcast Host
And they just break it up that way.
[50:40]
Adam Thorne
It would be so interesting.
[50:41]
Podcast Host
I mean. Yeah. Impossible to do.
[50:44]
Adam Thorne
Impossible. I mean, maybe, maybe not.
[50:46]
Podcast Host
Cool thought experiment. Because, you know, often people are going up and like you say, oh, I'm a red guy, just red, red, red, red. I've always voted red guy, blue, blue, blue, blue. And you don't even know. Like, I could never imagine ticking a box for a name I didn't even know. I'm not saying I need to have heavily researched the individual.
[51:05]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[51:05]
Podcast Host
But like voting for someone, you have no idea what it is just because you're assuming that they will have the values that it. It. That to me seems wild. And I still understand why people do it because they feel so strongly. But me personally, it, like, I can't imagine having somebody represent me that I have no idea who they are.
[51:28]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[51:28]
Podcast Host
You know, it's almost even a local government babysitting your kids.
[51:32]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. But even local government, I mean, you know, you have. When you, when you vote for city council and you vote for state, blah, blah, blah. I couldn't even tell you what all the things. When you get that state ballot and it's like 20 pages long and you go through and you're like, okay, well there's one candidate, I guess I'll just vote for that person. It's like, you don't have to. And just because there's an R or a D after their name doesn't mean you have to vote for that person either. But, you know, a lot of us have busy lives we have families, we have careers, we have, you know, other interests, taking care of ourselves, blah, blah, blah, that don't allow us, you know, to allocate enough time to research 40 to 60 different sort of like, political candidates every single year or every two to five years that we have to vote for and to understand their policies in full. And so I think it's an important concept of, like, one. How do we simplify that? Maybe it is some type of digital online quiz that. Just like that when you vote for a city government, instead of voting for a candidate, you vote for policy and you vote for like, I believe this should happen. And I believe this should happen. And if a candidate is advocating for X, Y and Z, and it aligns with so many, you know, But.
[52:38]
Podcast Host
But see, all of this is hard enough to do.
[52:41]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[52:41]
Podcast Host
And this is why it's so important that people like Schellenberger out there that are examining the Twitter files, Brazil and in the US and pointing out where censorship has been created by people in the government. Because if you're not at least getting all the information, you can't even make a choice.
[53:04]
Adam Thorne
Right?
[53:04]
Podcast Host
Right. They've hid it from you before you even. So let's say you want to be the most informed. You still only have the information that you can get a hold of. If it's being hidden by the FBI, through social media companies, or this Brazilian guy, you know, through censorship, then even with your best version of being informed, you can't make an informed choice fully. So this is why censorship is so bad. This is why the First Amendment is so important and the things that come with it that people don't like, like maybe extra. More hate speech or the potential for misinformation, you know, that kind of thing. It's like, this is part and parcel. We got to work through it. It's a messy system, but at least we have the information. You seem to be bored of this. Do I ramble on about this?
[54:01]
Adam Thorne
You said something. I'm like, that was the most British thing you've ever said. Oh, part and parcel or something.
[54:06]
Podcast Host
Well, there we go.
[54:09]
Adam Thorne
I lost all train of thought.
[54:11]
Podcast Host
He also kind of spins back around to other systems that we have in place that we follow. Like, a lot of the conversation came up around Covid, what was happening, who the science was. Fauci is science, that sort of thing. And then he gives the example of how even these leading institutions that are supposed to be here setting standards for health and wellness and safety for us are doing it often based on no science. For example, The American association of Pediatrics, he was saying, recommended babies sleep on their stomachs. So this led to sids.
[54:49]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[54:49]
Podcast Host
The sudden infant death syndrome. Is that what it is? And again, peanut allergies. Some kids had peanut allergies, so they just suggested, no, no, peanut. Kids get peanuts. And then those allergies went through the roof.
[55:03]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[55:03]
Podcast Host
Again, these things weren't based on studies, testing science. They were just thrown out. There is like, that seems like a quick fix. And we're the professional, so you should listen to us. And now there's major problems. Now you could say, were they doing their best? Maybe. But, you know, now they're pushing medicine for transgenders. Again, what kind of science is this? Or is this some sort of, like, social, ethical decision making that now is medicine? Yeah, I mean, scary stuff.
[55:38]
Adam Thorne
I think it goes back to, like, you know, their narrative and, like, them pushing their narrative of, like, how do they want people to live their lives more than anything versus, like, what is the correct statistically, like, safest and best way to go about it? Like, you know, when it comes. I mean, now when you talk about, like, sleep, babies sleeping on their stomachs and children, like, those standards are different now. Now they say back is best. You have to put your baby on their back, wake them up, roll them over. If they roll to their stomach, like, all these things. Yeah.
[56:03]
Podcast Host
Because it took time and testing, and then we saw was bad.
[56:07]
Adam Thorne
Right. So, like, now I do think that, at least in that case, you know, I mean, and it makes sense. Of course. You want a baby on their back, you want their mouth exposed. But, you know, I've also heard a lot about how sids, you know, is grouped together. You know, if a baby dies under a certain age and they don't have any, like, real, like, evidence as to why, they just say it sits. Like, but it includes suffocation. It includes, you know, like, just, like, even if there isn't signs of suffocation, like, if a baby just, like, suddenly dies, they just group it together as sids. But it's like, there can be other things, right? Like, off gassing of chemicals on your baby's mattress and in their crib, you know, something that they were exposed to earlier in the day that made their. Overwhelmed their system or caused kidney failure.
[56:54]
Podcast Host
But surely they do an autopsy. They would know, like a toxicology report. They wouldn't count that as sids.
[57:00]
Adam Thorne
That's what I'm saying is, as far as I've heard, they, like, they just sort of group it all together. Like, they don't Say, like, this baby died of kidney failure or of like, you know, whatever. They just say it's sids, something caused this baby to die suddenly. And, you know, because otherwise they would just say, I don't know, suffocation. Right. Like suffocation is suffocation, and that's what sleeping on their stomachs tended to do. But it also could be, you know, lack of circulation to their brain. Like they could have a stroke because their head was turned too far to the left, you know, or something like that. Like, there's a lot of reasons why they're very fragile. They're so fragile. And so, you know, that's a scary thought that, like, they're not even investigating enough or publishing enough information about, like, what exactly killed this baby.
[57:44]
Podcast Host
It's just that's why these parents, you know, now like, being pressured to get these cameras and these oxygen monitors. But who can afford that? Most Americans and most of the rest of the world can't afford that.
[57:58]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, I think my baby sleeps in like $1,000 worth of gear every night.
[58:03]
Podcast Host
You know, it's like a cyborg.
[58:04]
Adam Thorne
It's like a sight. Yeah. It takes like 20 minutes to get it all going and to make sure it's all correct. You know, I just. I don't.
[58:10]
Podcast Host
Most of it is just fear driven. We've had no issues at all. There's been nothing.
[58:15]
Adam Thorne
None.
[58:15]
Podcast Host
Nothing.
[58:16]
Adam Thorne
The only issues we've had is like false alarms, false alarms. And that's like makes. Keeps me up at night, is wondering, are we going to have a false alarm? Is a false alarm not a false alarm, you know, or is the alarm false or is it not? And like that keeps me up more than anything.
[58:31]
Podcast Host
Well, yeah, let's. Let's jump over to some of the last couple of items that Shellenberger was discussing with Joe. I was surprised that they had such a different outlook on drugs. I thought Shellenberger would be like, quite a lot more liberal with his ideas on legalizing drugs and drug. But he did not seemed to think so. He felt like the more access there is to drugs, the more legal drugs there are, the more dangerous it will be because there will be more addictions. And that is entirely possible. You know, I don't know. Portugal is quite a good example because they decriminalized drugs like in 2001.
[59:14]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[59:15]
Podcast Host
And they've done well with their system. However, Portland not as good. They've had to. They've had to turn back on some of those.
[59:23]
Adam Thorne
Portland's a whole nother animal.
[59:24]
Podcast Host
Would true.
[59:25]
Adam Thorne
Different type of People, too.
[59:26]
Podcast Host
But these are all. But these are just examples.
[59:30]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[59:30]
Podcast Host
Of areas that have tried it. And has it been an overwhelming success in all areas? No.
[59:35]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[59:35]
Podcast Host
So, you know, I was just still surprised.
[59:39]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[59:39]
Podcast Host
I'm not saying I'm picking a side, but, like. But I'm probably more on Joe's angle. Like, I would. I would like more test. Well, I would just like more countries to. It makes sense to me.
[59:50]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[59:50]
Podcast Host
It's logical.
[59:51]
Adam Thorne
I would say that this. Of all the conversations I've had, Joe have with someone was, like, the most. There was, like, the most tension about this topic. Like, it was, like. I don't say it was, like, heated, but it was, like, them disagreeing. And I just don't feel like that typically happens. So it was both refreshing and also kind of hard to listen to. Like, when you hear people bickering about something or disagreeing, it's, like, harder to tune into that. Right. And kind of, stay, stay.
[60:14]
Podcast Host
But I like it. I like it, too, because I don't like it. Like, guests like Michael, obviously, their relationship with Joe and getting on this podcast is a big deal for their finances, their access to people, their credibility in general. It just is.
[60:31]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[60:32]
Podcast Host
So. So there probably is this energy to, like. I don't want to dare I say kiss Joe's ass, but, like, be polite, you know? And I like that he feels close enough to Joe to be like, well, on this thing. I just don't know. And I don't necessarily believe, like, he's honest. That's an integrity that Joe probably really appreciates, because I'm sure a ton of guests kiss his ass in the same way, to be fair, that Joe does it with usually very famous rock stars.
[61:01]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[61:02]
Podcast Host
Like, if Mick Jagger went on, Joe would be in such awe that Mick could talk nonsense forever, and Joe would not interrupt him or disagree. And there's, like, a respect element there.
[61:14]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[61:14]
Podcast Host
The last thing they kind of went over was the UAP stuff. Michael doesn't really have too big of an opinion on this. He doesn't really believe that anything is here. All the. That we have mastered anti grav and all those possibilities. Joe is more on the side of, like, yeah, we did it. We built these ships.
[61:35]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[61:35]
Podcast Host
Aliens have probably come in, that kind of thing. But Shellenberger did have some video that he took last year of some odd things that he saw, and it's pretty decent footage, actually, which is kind of interesting.
[61:50]
Adam Thorne
It's so. It's. This topic is so interesting to me because I see these videos, and I'm like, at first, I'm like, oh, my gosh, it's a freaking alien. And then I'm like, no, there's no way it's a projector. It's a. Is a drone. It's a. It's something else. It's something that we're just, like, misunderstanding. Right? But then you hear other accounts. You hear people, like, exposing certain things on government property. Like, you have all. I mean, there's been so many guests that talk about all this stuff. Right. But my mind still. It still warps my mind every time it gets brought up. I just. I can't wrap my head around what I truly believe, and it wears me out a little bit. Got to be honest. I'm like, I. Sometimes I'm like, I got to walk away from this and not think about it because it's so overwhelming. It's like, there's fear, there's anxiety over it. There's, you know, just the fear of the unknown. Right. And so I'm like, gosh, I just. I want to feel confident one way or another. Like, I want to be sure. Like, oh, they do have it, and I want to expose it. Or I want to be, like, 100%. Nope, I'm not that concerned about it. You know, whatever. But I'm so in the middle, and it absolutely stresses me out.
[63:02]
Podcast Host
Yeah, it's gonna take something else to be kind of fully there. I mean, I feel like I've made enough of my mind up. It's almost like when somebody talks to me about string theory. I don't know anything about what string theory is. String theory, it's like a physics theory about how the universe is created based on 11 dimensions and the mathematics of how everything is connected.
[63:26]
Adam Thorne
Yeah, my head already hurts.
[63:27]
Podcast Host
Well, they use that to do, you know, quantum physics calculations and all the rest of it. I couldn't even begin to believe, like, understand what it is, but I believe it exists. Okay, enough of the scientists that understand it talk about it, and I'm just like, okay, there's this thing. It may not be perfect, but it is there. The same thing with UFOs. I haven't seen it. I haven't. There isn't been enough evidence in the way of, like, one video. The Where I'm like, But you add it all together. How many sightings, how many people are seeing things, Government reports that are redacted, people coming in that have worked at the Pentagon, talking to Rogan, Bob Lazar, you know, fighter pilots discussing things that they're seeing. There is something there. For sure it exists. This isn't just wacky anymore. And you do notice that when you talk to people about it because back in the day it would just be people that love watching the X Files or like wacky shows. And then you're just like, oh, you're just a conspiracy weirdo. Serious people are discussing it now.
[64:30]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[64:31]
Podcast Host
And even smart people that wouldn't ordinarily believe in fringe ideas are like, oh yeah, that's probably something for sure.
[64:38]
Adam Thorne
Yeah. It's interesting you talk about like, it made me think of the idea of like, basically if you believe in something, you can find evidence to support it. Right. Like if, like there's people out there that. And I don't want to say these people are 100% wrong. I just want to say there's people out there that believe the world is round and there's people that believe the earth is flat. Right.
[64:58]
Podcast Host
And those people are wrong.
[65:00]
Adam Thorne
Those people. I do believe that. I do believe they're wrong. But I'm just saying they will find evidence.
[65:05]
Podcast Host
You and I haven't taken any measurements though.
[65:07]
Adam Thorne
That's not clear. We have never made it up to space to look at it for ourselves. And so, you know, there's people that will find evidence to back their opinion no matter what. And you know, at some point they, the world did believe, you know, that America was the center of the world, you know, of the globe and that like, you know, the earth was flat like a map and you know, all of this stuff.
[65:27]
Podcast Host
But we, I think it was England. England was the center.
[65:30]
Adam Thorne
That's right. But like we over time have proved that to be wrong. And so I think it's, it's hard sometimes when people take such a hard sided like opinion about it, rather just being curious about it, being like, no, this is, this is happening. You know, it's like, well, there's evidence but it's not proven. And like at what point do you prove something just like gravity and you know, evolution and all these other theories that we have. It's like we don't actually have that. We don't have like proof. We don't have a creator that said, no, I evolved.
[66:00]
Podcast Host
No, this is a bit different. The theory of evolution will continue to have to be re examined. Always.
[66:07]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[66:08]
Podcast Host
Because it's a theory about how things mutate and change. We don't know exactly how that happens or why it does or if there's been enough time. Like it really is a theory. Right. The same as string theory. There's now M theory, I believe membrane Theory. It's like one level above those things can evolve and change. But what we're talking about here is UFOs, aliens, UAPs. That's like saying we've discovered the giraffe. As soon as we discover it in the wild, we take a picture of it and we take one to a zoo. We know that they exist. It's not a theory anymore, it's real. Yeah, that's what we're missing with uap.
[66:45]
Adam Thorne
I also feel like when we discover, it's like this information is free to anyone, or not free, but like open and available to anyone to investigate on their own and to say, oh, this is the difference between a giraffe and an elephant. This is the difference between, you know, this is what makes the giraffe unique and how they evolved and what are they, what they're close to. So like, we know that they're their own unique species. And you know, I'm just going with that example. But like, the information about, you know, extraterrestrials and UAPs, like, that's not openly available to the public.
[67:13]
Podcast Host
And so that's his part of the problem. We're assuming it's not. They haven't even said that they have the information.
[67:20]
Adam Thorne
Right.
[67:20]
Podcast Host
We're having to assume that they have stuff that they're not giving us. You know, when we have people that come from the Pentagon that are like, oh, the US government has like high definition footage and film of these crafts, but we don't release them.
[67:35]
Adam Thorne
Right. But like, is there multifaceted, like, investigations done into, like, how does this differ from our technology? Is it 100% sure that it's not technology made by a human? Is there evidence?
[67:46]
Podcast Host
Of course.
[67:46]
Adam Thorne
Biology? Of course.
[67:47]
Podcast Host
The military would be looking at that. What do you think? They just like get cool pictures and they're like, well, that's cool.
[67:55]
Adam Thorne
Yeah.
[67:55]
Podcast Host
We won't spend a lot of time trying to figure this out.
[67:58]
Adam Thorne
Maybe. I don't know. I mean, you would think that if they had more solid, like, data and evidence that like, was justifiable in some way that they would put more out there. But then again.
[68:08]
Podcast Host
But why? What, why? What's their incentive to tell us anything? Like, if the government is actually good at anything, I think it is keeping secrets.
[68:18]
Adam Thorne
They always tell us what to do all these times in our lives.
[68:21]
Podcast Host
Yeah. Trying to control us and keeping secrets. I think most of everything else they do is inefficient and not that great. I mean, you know, if NASA is the best example of all the experience of getting people to space. And Space X comes along and in just a few years is way better at it. It's like private industry and companies can run things more effectively. However, keeping secrets is like they have all the ability to do it.
[68:52]
Adam Thorne
Well, that's my question is how is it possible that the US government has this information but a some private company doesn't own UFOs?
[68:59]
Podcast Host
Yeah, well, listen, Elon probably has some freaking footage too.
[69:03]
Adam Thorne
Wouldn't he tell us though?
[69:04]
Podcast Host
No, he'd probably lose his security clearance. He'd probably lose security clearance. Of course he has. He has ballistic missile technology at his fingerprint. Like that's what those rockets are. All right, he launches the largest rockets ever made into space. They could be filled with anything. He could. He himself, as one individual could shoot those rockets into every capital in the world if he had enough of them. Like that's a serious, serious bit of power.
[69:37]
Adam Thorne
Now he's your boyfriend, Elon.
[69:39]
Podcast Host
He doesn't have nukes on the end of them, but I mean, he could pack him with whatever. Probably wouldn't even need a nuke.
[69:45]
Adam Thorne
All I gotta say is fired in the ground. I don't know that all 100% believe that there is life out there beyond humans until I'm abducted and I see it for myself up close and personal. I don't. I don't know that I could believe it otherwise.
[69:58]
Podcast Host
Okay, but fair enough, Fair enough.
[70:02]
Adam Thorne
Bring it on. Aliens.
[70:03]
Podcast Host
That's a reasonable choice. I hope you get abducted.
[70:06]
Adam Thorne
I hope I do too at some point. I hope I'm like 90 and it happens and I don't have to live my whole life in fear.
[70:11]
Podcast Host
It's the last thing that happens. All right, well, thanks a lot for listening everybody and hearing us yammering on and yeah, good week of podcast. Go check out the doctors. They were fantastic. Learn some things, be healthy, stay safe.
[70:26]
Adam Thorne
Take care of yourselves, everyone.
[70:27]
Podcast Host
We love you. Talk to you next week.
[70:28]
Adam Thorne
Cheers.
[70:35]
Podcast Host
It's better over here.
[70:37]
T-Mobile Representative
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[70:48]
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[71:07]
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[71:36]
Adam Thorne
States of the Southwest, there's a group that's been denied a basic human right in the Navajo Nation. Today, a third of our households don't have running water, but that's not something they chose for themselves. Can the Navajo people reclaim their right to water and contend with the government's legacy of control and neglect?
[71:55]
Podcast Host
Our water.
[71:56]
Adam Thorne
Our future.
[71:57]
Podcast Host
Our water. Our future.
[71:59]
Adam Thorne
That's in the next season of Reclaimed the Lifeblood of Navajo Nation. Listen now. Wherever you get your podcasts.