413 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Josh Brolin et el.

Summary

Episode 413: Joe Rogan Experience Review of Josh Brolin et al.
Release Date: November 28, 2024

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Introduction

In Episode 413 of the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast, hosts Adam Thorne and Ian delve into the latest episode of Joe Rogan's podcast featuring actor Josh Brolin and other guests. This comprehensive 45-minute analysis examines the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn from the original episode, providing listeners with an in-depth understanding even if they haven't tuned in to Joe Rogan's show.

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Main Discussion

COVID-19 Mortality Rates and Misinformation

Timestamp: [02:12] - [03:16]

The conversation begins with Adam and Ian addressing a contentious topic from the Joe Rogan episode: the mortality rate of COVID-19. Adam references a claim made by former President Trump, stating, “Trump lied about the most recent World Health Organization estimate that the global death rate of coronavirus is 3.4%” ([02:29]). They discuss the discrepancy between initial WHO estimates and later revisions, emphasizing the dangers of misinformation.

Notable Quote:
Adam Thorne: “Disinformation, misinformation, and dangerous disinformation.” ([02:58])

Impact of the Pandemic on Society and Work

Timestamp: [07:09] - [14:35]

The hosts reflect on how the pandemic altered societal norms, particularly the shift to working from home. Ian shares personal anecdotes about limited social interactions and the stigma faced by those who opposed pandemic guidelines. Adam notes the unexpected benefits, such as improved budgeting habits and the rise of telehealth services, while also lamenting the closure of traditional social venues like British pubs.

Notable Quote:
Ian: “It was almost like, you know, you had to be. It was almost seen as a bit weird.” ([12:58])

Rise of Alternative Thinkers and Podcast Influence

Timestamp: [16:01] - [29:47]

Adam and Ian explore the growing trend of alternative thinkers gaining prominence through platforms like Joe Rogan's podcast. They highlight guests like Jimmy Corsetti and Dan Richards, who challenge established scientific narratives, particularly concerning archeology and ancient civilizations. The discussion underscores the podcast's role in providing a voice to those questioning mainstream expertise.

Notable Quote:
Adam Thorne: “They listened to them. Leading scientists, including Dr. Fauci, wrote in the New England Journal of Medicine that the death rate could be considerably less than 1%.” ([02:58])

Critique of Establishment Experts

Timestamp: [28:04] - [43:46]

The hosts critique how establishment experts often dismiss alternative viewpoints without genuine consideration. They argue that this dismissal fosters distrust and drives listeners toward alternative sources like Joe Rogan's podcast. The conversation touches on the lack of humility among some experts and the importance of asking profound questions rather than providing definitive answers when uncertainty exists.

Notable Quote:
Adam Thorne: “You can still define someone as a liar who was telling the truth.” ([05:18])

Highlighting Josh Brolin's Candidness and Personal Struggles

Timestamp: [43:51] - [71:47]

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Josh Brolin's appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast. Adam and Ian praise Brolin's authenticity, discussing his openness about personal challenges, including addiction and recovery. They admire his ability to balance toughness with vulnerability, making him a relatable and inspiring figure.

Notable Quote:
Adam Thorne: “He was just being him and it just happens to be impressive.” ([55:24])

Reflections on Addiction and Mental Health

Timestamp: [62:00] - [71:47]

The discussion shifts to broader themes of addiction and mental health, prompted by Brolin's personal stories. The hosts emphasize the complexity of overcoming addiction and the societal challenges in addressing mental health issues. They advocate for compassion and support rather than judgment, highlighting the importance of sharing recovery stories to inspire others.

Notable Quote:
Ian: “Anyone who's in addiction just like love on them because whatever they're going through is hard as fuck any way you slice it.” ([71:09])

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Conclusions

Adam Thorne and Ian conclude Episode 413 by summarizing the profound impact of Joe Rogan's podcast in shaping public discourse. They applaud Josh Brolin's candidness and the platform's ability to amplify diverse voices. The hosts express hope for future breakthroughs in both archeological understanding and societal approaches to mental health and addiction.

Final Remarks:
Adam Thorne: “Thank you, Ian. Also, have a great freaking Thanksgiving, my friend, and great to have you on today.” ([73:26])

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Notable Quotes Summary

• Adam Thorne: “Disinformation, misinformation, and dangerous disinformation.” ([02:58])
• Ian: “Anyone who's in addiction just like love on them because whatever they're going through is hard as fuck any way you slice it.” ([71:09])

---

Key Takeaways

1. Misinformation's Impact: The podcast episode underscores the significant role misinformation plays in public perception, especially regarding health crises like COVID-19.
2. Shift to Remote Work: The pandemic-induced transition to working from home has had lasting effects on budgeting habits and the structure of social interactions.
3. Alternative Voices Gain Traction: Platforms like Joe Rogan's podcast are pivotal in providing alternative perspectives, challenging traditional expertise, and influencing public discourse.
4. Authenticity in Public Figures: Josh Brolin's genuine portrayal of his struggles with addiction highlights the importance of vulnerability and authenticity in combating stigma.
5. Complexity of Addiction: Overcoming addiction is portrayed as a multifaceted challenge that requires empathy, support, and an understanding of individual experiences.

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This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of Episode 413, providing listeners with a thorough overview of the discussions and insights shared by Adam Thorne and Ian in their review of Joe Rogan's conversation with Josh Brolin. Whether you're a devoted Rogan fan or new to the review podcast, this summary offers valuable perspectives on influential topics ranging from public health misinformation to personal struggles with addiction.

Transcript

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[Adam Thorne]

You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you. Perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking Dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created now with your host Adam Thorne.

[Ian]

Might either be the worst podcast or the best one.

[Adam Thorne]

Go enjoy the show.

[Ian]

So it's 3.4%. So this is it. So give me some volume here and.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

A lot of conversations with a lot.

[Adam Thorne]

Of people that do this.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

I think the number is way under 1%.

[Adam Thorne]

So to fact check, the World Health Organization says the coronavirus Death rate is 3.4%.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

President Trump lies that the World Health Organization is wrong. The number is 3.4%.

[Ian]

3.4% is what it's being reported, my boy Sanjay.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

The death rate, the percentage is 3.4%.

[Adam Thorne]

And no hunch from the President can change that. Trump lied about the most recent World Health Organization estimate that the global death rate of coronavirus is 3.4%. Jesus. The 3.4% death rate was wrong. And WHO data later updated it to.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

A fraction of 1%.

[Ian]

Let's go back into history.

[Adam Thorne]

Trump has a hunch that the death rate is lower than 1%. Way under 1%.

[Ian]

Way under 1%.

[Adam Thorne]

Will someone put a mozzarella stick in his stupid hole?

[Ian]

Trump lied to viewers about the mortality rate.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Way under 1%.

False information.

[Adam Thorne]

She's sp. Disinformation, misinformation, and dangerous disinformation. If you're President of the United States, you have the world's greatest scientists at your disposal. You listen to them. Leading scientists, including Dr. Fauci, wrote in the New England Journal of Medicine that the death rate could be considerably less than 1%.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Way under 1%.

[Ian]

Why are you going.

[Adam Thorne]

See, this is. Yeah. So that is a clip from the Jimmy Corsetti Dan Richards episode with Rogan. And just talking about how the death rate for Covid was under 1%. People knew it at the beginning. Other scientists didn't believe that that was the number or wanted to, I guess, you know, I hate to say, scare people. I'd like to think, you know, most people were doing their best, but. Anyway, joined this week by a good buddy of mine, Ian. And what's up? Thanks for being here. Happy to be on, you know. Do you remember Happy Thanksgiving? Yeah, Happy Thanksgiving. Yeah. Thanksgiving episode. Do you remember this, like, point in time? Obviously you remember being in Covid, but the specifics that. I think people are getting amnesia for now because they don't want to admit that they took a particular side on this and.

[Ian]

Yeah, yeah. And, and I don't remember this exactly. You know, it was, there was. I think we were all pretty much in a sea of info at that point. Yeah. But, you know, there's definitely like very foggy and very emotionally charged. But I definitely, you know, you and I talked about this the other day. There's sort of this like low grade gaslighting that seems to happen kind of non stop where it's like. Well, no, no, no, I, I didn't. I, I did turn out the light. I told you I did. You know, I, we didn't say 3%. And then, you know, it's so, it's. It doesn't surprise me. It doesn't feel that new. And, you know, that's. News is in the business of, of selling a story. And I Think that's. That's their first priority and their second priority is. Is informing you.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Ian]

Or third or fourth.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah, it's definitely tricky. I mean, you know what makes it so hard is that the. It just goes to show that you can still define someone as a liar who was telling the truth. I guess you can perceive it as. That was an accidental truth that he nailed the actual impact of this thing. But if we had followed his recommendation through, we would have changed so many of the things. Like so much more of the shutdown.

[Ian]

Wouldn'T have guidelines taken place. Yeah, sure.

[Adam Thorne]

You know, there would have been so much more freedom for a lot of people. Our society could. An economy would have continued in a much stronger way and they wouldn't be that fear mongering. I mean, people were scared and it's like, oh yeah, is it okay to scare people? You know, just in case it's that bad? Or do we have a responsibility to people's mental health? I don't think the government is allowed to or should be trying to scare us ever.

[Ian]

Yeah, you know, that's the funny part. That's. What was that?

[Adam Thorne]

I said warn us maybe.

[Ian]

Yeah, sure. That's kind of a funny part of COVID that I sort of just forget like for a while the people who pushed back against the guidelines, it was a, it was sort of a big deal because you're like, well, what about grandma? You know, because that's what you heard all the time. It's right. Well, you know, if you, you know, like if you scratch your balls in public, you know your grandma's going to die from COVID And like if you do anything, if you step outside, if you go to the grocery store and you take your mask off to unlock your phone, like so. And so's grandma is going to die.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Ian]

And. And I. So for a while it was a big deal. Like whoever was like, screw these guidelines. Screw what the media is telling us.

[Adam Thorne]

It was easy to make them look like selfish assholes because that's what people made me feel like immediately when I was like, hey guys.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

I don't think standing outside the grocery.

[Ian]

Store is going to kill anyone for.

[Adam Thorne]

Us to have to wait to go. Like in LA for a while, you. You could only have one person go down the aisle at a time.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And I'm just like already wearing masks and that. And I'm like, it just maybe for some people, I don't think elderly people should be in there masked up.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Going down the aisles. But if you're young and healthy. I'm like, yeah, I think we can do it.

[Ian]

Yeah. It's funny. Like, Covid feels like a decade ago, right?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

But it's. It's interesting that both of these podcasts today, you know, Brolin and Corsetti and Richards, like, they. They both were taught. Covid came up, like, with Brolin, you know, Joe was talking about why he moved to Austin. And he's like, we came out there and we saw people listening to Leonard Skynyrd jumping off their boats, having fun in the sun. And. And we had just come from L. A where it felt like, you know, it felt like a sci fi movie. You know, the 405 is totally empty at middle of the day. And there's a weird world I.

[Adam Thorne]

Parallel universes I once drove for. So two things happened that was really strange.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

In California is the air in about four days felt so different. It was like crisp. And it's because the LA area is full of brake dust.

[Ian]

Like, oh, no.

[Adam Thorne]

So a lot of people don't have AC and maybe their apartments there just because, you know, unless you're in the Valley. I mean, if you're close to like Venice or Santa Monica, there's. There's like decent breeze. It stays around 72 degrees. Like, you can deal with it. Have the window open. It's nice. But there's always this black, like dust that builds up. It's break.

[Ian]

No kidding.

[Adam Thorne]

Brake dust is break. The biggest tire pollutant from. From cars. So many nasty. Oh, it's.

[Ian]

So that stuff's nasty. Heavy metals and all kinds of toxic shit.

[Adam Thorne]

So, yeah, in like four days, no one's on the roads. Obviously it went away. And it was noticeably different. People randomly would just be like, hey, dude, are you noticing how good it smells? And I was like, I was just saying that before, it was like everyone was seeing it. Then I had to drive to Hollywood for something. I can't remember what, but it was during the time when they were like, don't go anywhere. You're not allowed for any reason. But I was meeting a friend and I didn't give a. So I was just like, they. Hey. They also agreed. They were like, it's fine, you can come over.

[Ian]

Well, it's consensual.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, exactly. So I drove there in 10 minutes from Santa Monica to Hollywood. It's like, beautiful, dude. You could only do that in a helicopter most of the time.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Like, it was.

[Ian]

So I had a friend, I was up in Montana. So a lot of this was like, yeah, it was like Sort of secondhand because we were shut down for like two weeks. And then everybody's like, ah. And I was working in a construction business at the time, so it was like, same thing. People would come in, they'd be like, yeah, look, I don't have my mask on either. And you're like, all right, cool, man, whatever you want to do. Yeah, yeah. But I had a buddy FaceTime me at like 3 in the afternoon while driving on the 405. Smart idea, right?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

But he showed me the only car, the only car on the road.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

And it was like, it was like a post apocalyptic, you know, but it's not bad, I guess. One perk.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, it's. It's so true though. I mean, and listen, there were perks out of it, right? If you. Yeah, there's a lot more, I mean, you know, there's a lot more working from home options now that people didn't have before. I think that's a net plus for societies. I think it's. And net plus for families, you know, communities, those sorts of things. Yeah, you know, just, just even going into telehealth, it's like, I think that that's so true.

[Ian]

That's exploded that, that working from home was.

[Adam Thorne]

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[Ian]

Kind of the. It was not the norm. It was like a.

[Adam Thorne]

It was almost like, you know, you had to be. It was almost seen as a bit weird.

[Ian]

Right? Oh, who's he? What's this guy doing? Yeah, you work from your home.

[Adam Thorne]

How much you're actually employed.

[Ian]

You don't just.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, you just assume that People are just jerking off all day and not doing any work. It's all I ever thought about. Homeschooling.

[Ian]

Weirdly, Laura.

[Adam Thorne]

Not homeschoolers, really. Working from home.

[Ian]

And like homeschoolers, that's like bonnets and dresses, man. We're talking pretty conservative.

[Adam Thorne]

So, yeah, you know that it changed it. You know, I think it clean, I think it cleaned people's budgets a little bit because, yeah, those people that couldn't work, you know, actually got the most consistent paycheck they'd ever had before. And they were like, oh shit, we gotta live within these means because this is all I got. And then they were actually like kind of doing a bit of a better job with budgeting and, and at least this is true for England. I don't know if it's the same for the States, but like I thought if you close the pubs in England, the whole country is going to riot. Turns out British people just do whatever they're told. And they didn't go to the pubs because they couldn't. And they didn't complain when the pubs opened again. And when Covid finished, they got so used to just, I guess, drinking from home, they weren't going back out. And the pub was like a staple of British society for a thousand years.

[Ian]

That's sad.

[Adam Thorne]

And so many have closed because they're like, you know what? Well, think about it. It's a public place. So really you're paying this huge premium on alcohol. You know, it's what, 10 times more expensive to buy it at a bar than a grocery store?

[Ian]

It's not cheap.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, it's not cheap. So you know, a white claw could be five bucks, right? And you can get, right, what, 12 of those for 10 at the store. So you're basically paying a premium for the social aspect of it. Well, once you found a solution for the social aspect, which they had to do during COVID then there's no longer any value in that service.

[Ian]

Yeah, an apparent solution. Because you know, what does that really look like? More screen time, More, you know, one sided videos. Just more like consuming socializing rather than participating in it.

[Adam Thorne]

Tweeting into the void.

[Ian]

Yeah, because, because trust me, somebody is reading your treat, your tweets. Everybody wants to know what you think.

[Adam Thorne]

Just, just your aunt, your one supportive ant, is like, I keep up with you, like, thanks. But you know, this is, this is what I like about Jimmy Corsetti and it's like his, he's obviously an alternative thinker, right? That's how you kind of get into like, dare I say, like ancient alien style conversations. So, you know, he's. He's also definitely going to be skeptical of what was Covid. Like many people. That's why it wasn't a surprise that Joe was, you know, and it kind.

[Ian]

Of leads talking to so many different people.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. You just need. I think it's someone that's just not afraid to ask questions about, you know, it's like it takes some confidence to say, wait a minute, how the. Did they build those pyramids? I mean, most people have been taught in school, oh, they just had slaves. They rolled them along the ground with logs and then they build the pyramids.

[Ian]

Totally. So here's the. Here's what I think is, like the overarching social phenomena that's going on right now.

[Adam Thorne]

Okay.

[Ian]

And that. It happened in Covid. It's happening with like ancient aliens. With, you know, with Graham Hancock's TV show.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, yeah.

[Ian]

And all the pushback from it and. And even like, to a degree, like Trump getting reelected in spite of everyone saying, hey, like this shouldn't happen. He's a terrible guy. All the experts. Right.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Is that we've got this massive. I feel like we're getting to a tipping point where it's like thinkers with authority getting pushback from thinkers without authority.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, and winning.

[Ian]

And winning.

[Adam Thorne]

And that's really pissing them off.

[Ian]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because. Okay, so help me out. Corsetti is the younger guy. Who's the older guy? Okay. So like both of those guys, Corsetti and Richards. They're both guys. And Richards especially, I feel like he's got a fair amount of integrity.

[Adam Thorne]

Like, he's not for sure.

[Ian]

He doesn't seem like he's just in it to say, kind of the. To be honest, like, as an aside, I feel like Corsetti's a little bit like, oh, I want to be Graham Hancock.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Yeah. But you know what? You got to start out somewhere. And he's young.

[Ian]

It's true.

[Adam Thorne]

And he's got a lot of. He kept calling Joe brother a lot. I was like, all right, slow down.

[Ian]

Yeah. It didn't give me Hulk Hogan vibes. It gave me more like. Like we're wearing the same white tunic vibes. That kind of brother. That is better. Yeah, yeah. Anyways. Yeah, but you've got this whole thing like Dan Richardson, he's trying to talk to the guy who does the ice core samples and he's like, hey, I've got some honest questions. Like, wouldn't the lead tick up if people are Doing metallurgy. And the guy's like, yeah, yeah, I guess it would. And then he, like, backed. He way backed off once after the podcast or something. Anyways, you've got. What you've got going on is, like, people who are. Have questions.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

And we've got. Especially with the archeology. And I'm sure there's a lot of stuff that Graham Hancock says that's like, all right, dude. Like, nobody else thinks this is actually a giant temple. Like, I know it's a cool theory, but, like, you know, it might just be a bunch of rocks stacked up on the top.

[Adam Thorne]

Exactly. And the question there is, it's not all about these guys that we're starting to listen to being correct. It's about them asking questions and not talking down to us. And I think that's the problem with this establishment that you were just discussing. It's like the PhDs and the medical people and the politicians, they've just got to this point where they're like, we're the smart ones. We have the answers. We'll tell you how it is. And all of a sudden we're like, hey, our lives are kind of. So maybe you're not good. Maybe we don't need to listen to you and we're going to do something else.

[Ian]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

And we're finding our new people. And then things like podcasts are exploding, which. Which really is the wild card in the middle here, because I think it's given a ginormous voice to so many people that were either crushed or just didn't have a voice before.

[Ian]

Yeah. And it's so interesting because, right, like, I saw some joke about how Ellen. Ellen DeGeneres was like, an apex predator of, like, pop fame. And like, you know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, if, like, the Hock Tua girl showed up, she'd get like a 30 second spot on Ellen DeGeneres and never be seen again.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

But now she's got a podcast and she's got all this and she's got all that.

[Adam Thorne]

Dude, she just released a meme. Coin. Her own coin. Dude, I'm buying. If there's one mortgage investment, it's un. That's what I'm asking you. You in? We're in.

[Ian]

Oh, dude, I am in. What do. Where do I send my money?

[Adam Thorne]

We got it.

[Ian]

What?

[Adam Thorne]

Buy at least one coin.

[Ian]

What if it goes up? What if that's the next doge? That's like. It's a joke. And it.

[Adam Thorne]

Imagine if it becomes stronger than bitcoin and everyone's like, oh my, I don't even know what to do now.

[Ian]

Yeah, just it'll happen something, you know, some crazy crap like that's going to happen.

[Adam Thorne]

But this is what happens when you rock the boat like this, you know. And it's like again, if we keep getting told like how long does the National Reserve need to keep making trillions of debt every year? Not that they do our government, the Federal Reserve. But yeah, the Federal Reserve isn't is they're doing their own dodgy how long is it before they mess with us so much? We no longer believe in money and it easily could be the Hawk Tours. It's better over here now.

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[Adam Thorne]

Fucking right. Meme coin that we're just like oh we just traded meme coins now because we don't trust what you're doing. You guys in suits?

[Ian]

Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean like you know people trade like bottle caps or whatever. Whatever is some random thing we go to boss. Yeah, the who is it? The I'm going to butcher this probably. But some islander people, they have these giant stone wheels and that's their coin. And they would like lose one. They'd be sailing in the, you know, Pacific islands. Their ship would sink and the giant stone wheel that's worth, you know, X amount of value would be at the bottom of the ocean and people would still trade it. They'd be like, all right now, cheers. And they're like, sweet. You know, it's a three hour boat ride over there and it's 100ft down underwater and nobody's ever going to get it. But now it's yours.

[Adam Thorne]

No, that's it.

[Ian]

We figure out a way they don't need.

[Adam Thorne]

Did they have some sort of receipt for it?

[Ian]

I think it was just an agreement.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

I'm not going to lie about it. I told you it's yours now. You know, Joe heard us like, dude, you know, wild.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. You just need a great.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And then someone figures out killing witnesses actually massively benefits.

[Ian]

They can, they can give the coin away.

[Adam Thorne]

Infinite time just keep wiping out. Yeah, it's. It's fascinating and I mean, it does highlight totally kind of the ridiculousness of like even what, you know, money is or what that type of value. Right. That is.

[Ian]

But that's the thing that's going on. It's like trust. Being an expert used to have so much weight and power and I think people are tired of that.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I mean, we want to see people working really hard and we also want information to be given to us in a very entertaining way. I mean, listen, Neil DeGrasse Tyson isn't just like a smart guy, you know, or Carl Sagan, he was very good at explaining information. It was, they were inspiring.

[Ian]

They were actually like covert entertainers.

[Adam Thorne]

Right. Of course, they were also very smart. Now Neil DeGrasse Tyson's gone a bit wacky recently, but yeah, Carl Sagan legend, all right. There's no denying that that guy could inspire anybody and that's a part of it. So, you know, you take Corsetti and it's like he's got a lot of energy. He's putting a ton of time into making these videos and like analyzing this stuff. Now is he doing it from like an archaeologist or an engineer's point of view? No, but he's willing to talk to them, you know.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And you can kind of just see the weight of that. I mean, look at it from the standpoint of a good documentary. You don't always need to know that the person that made the documentary is A specialist in the thing he's discussing.

[Ian]

You just need bringing you the information.

[Adam Thorne]

You just need it to be clear, logical and like seemingly well researched. Right.

[Ian]

They looked at Corsetti stuff, right? Have you looked at Corsetti stuff? I haven't.

[Adam Thorne]

I've watched some of his videos when he was on last time because I knew Joe was a fan of his. So I watched some little bit and he has some cool stuff where he's like describing the weights of these stones and I can't remember if they ones in Greece or if they were in, yeah. Egypt, but either way it's like yeah, you know, 150, like whatever tons. Like it's. They're insane amounts of weight, right?

[Ian]

You're saying like 300 tons or something or 900 tons and the biggest we've ever moved is 300. Yeah, something like that.

[Adam Thorne]

I think 900.

[Ian]

Some insane amount.

[Adam Thorne]

But you know, and here's the thing, right? It's like it's one of those things that we just step back on bewildered yet archaeologists will be like, oh well, you know, they did it with ropes and it took a long time and it's just blah, blah, blah. And it's like, yeah, but how like you do it then do it right?

[Ian]

Yeah, totally. And I feel like, you know, at a certain level Corsetti sort of has an easy job, right. Because he has to look at something from pre history and say, well actually we don't know how to explain this.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Which is like a good thing to point out and a very interesting thing to point out. And also it's more impressive if we do like archeology is not full of answers. They're like, why the fuck did they bury King Tut like this? I don't know, we probably never will, you know, and so it's like, you know, that's. If he wants to be somebody with a lot of integrity, that's his slippery slope that he has to watch out for. It's like you're going to be. Just because they can't explain it doesn't mean you can. Doesn't mean like, doesn't mean they're being disingenuous.

[Adam Thorne]

Right, right.

[Ian]

But, but like you said, it's like it goes back to that thing you said earlier where it's like if the experts talk down to us with disdain and are like, oh, like what? You want to know that answer? Like, that's such a dumb answer. It's such a dumb question. People are going to listen to Corsetti and not to the archaeology, right?

[Adam Thorne]

And they talked about that at the beginning, the Graham Hancock conversation, when they brought on Flint Dibble, which still is one of the funniest names I've ever heard, but basically, you know, debunked a lot of what he was saying. And also that it was disingenuous. And I've heard Dibbles little rebuttal on other podcasts because obviously he's not come back on Joe, but he, like, wanted to explain that, oh, you know, they had Graham back on and they just kind of hammered me. And of course I couldn't say anything in. And I'm just like, dude, you are not doing yourself any favors. Like, the best thing we can do here is realize, listen, Graham Hancock has some fucking legitimacy. If anything, he's getting a new generation of people interested in archeology, which totally. Until they make more Indiana Jones movies, I don't know what's getting into that shit. Yeah, it's like, you know, you're.

[Ian]

It's not going to be the museum.

[Adam Thorne]

Some professor's new book isn't going to do it. But. But Graham Hancock might be inspiring a new generation. So instead of just sitting there demonizing what that is, how about find some common ground, work together, show up on his show and just respect the fact that people are digging this information. They're loving it.

[Ian]

Yeah. Well, and Joe gave a great example of this in about, like when he started to sort of get. I don't know what it was, but he was saying, you know, he talked about his high school science teacher.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, yeah.

[Ian]

Podcast.

[Adam Thorne]

Yep.

[Ian]

And you know, his high school science teachers, like, here's why the Great Lakes are so filthy. I learned this 20 years ago in college and I still think I'm cool because I know it.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

And Joe's like, oh, no way. Do you hear about this new documentary and how they're cleaning it up a lot and the guy like, freaks out, you know, he's like, dang it, I am no longer the cool 60 year old in front of a bunch of 15 year olds who are like, barely interested in me.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, it's sad. It's sad that he couldn't take a second and be like, wow, that is new information. I would love to watch that. Hey, I'll tell you what, maybe we could get a hold of that. Like that would. It is so much more empowering. I think Joe didn't feel very empowered there.

[Ian]

Oh, not at all. Yeah. That's a horrible. Yeah, it's like such a bad move for a teacher. It's like, it's gross. Like for a teacher to be threatened by not being an expert is like, all right, so you're there to be the best dude. This room full of 15 year old kids to be the best.

[Adam Thorne]

The smartest teachers I ever knew. And I was lucky enough to go to some schools that had some really good chemistry teachers. Like very, very smart people that worked on teams that won Nobel prizes, you know, like cool, inspiring students.

[Ian]

Yeah, forget you're this chemistry nerd. You're like kind of a boy genius.

[Adam Thorne]

I just like chemistry. So it's got nothing to do with my meth lab promise. That's.

[Ian]

I believe you. That's. That one. That's the worst managed lab I've ever seen.

[Adam Thorne]

So what was incredible about this person and people similar was. And because I knew they were like really the smartest professors that I'd worked with in any discipline because they really stood out, they would often say either I don't know or like be open to a new situation or just say.

[Ian]

That'S a great question.

[Adam Thorne]

You're right.

[Ian]

Like that's all you have to say? Yeah, that's a great question.

[Adam Thorne]

And then I started to draw the gap because the dumber ones I knew, the teachers that are like clearly annoying and dumb and you're like, how did you get this job? They would never talk like that. They always had the answer for some reason. They always had some hypothesis or if they didn't, they would just tell you to shut up. The smartest guys didn't do that. The smartest guys seemed to be angels. Seem to be really open to being like, you know, I don't know, I don't know why that is. I don't know how we got there.

[Ian]

It's kind of a weird thing that like we get people who like aren't. I would, I'd say it's probably safe to say somebody who feels threatened by a question either isn't as smart or doesn't know as much or doesn't enjoy understanding the thing. Like there's some, I don't know, maybe that's a bit of a stretch.

[Adam Thorne]

No, no, that's. I think that's true, dude. It's, it really is like one of the best ways of testing.

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[Adam Thorne]

Someone new in your life. Like, for example, like, you know, yeah, you're a therapist, right? So, right. If you meet another one and you're like, I want to find out one, how smart you are and two, where your egos are, all you'd have to do is ask them a question that literally is too complicated really for anyone to answer in the realm of therapy, and then see how they take it. If they've just met you, they might want to impress you. They might want to have answers. So you might get a lot of fucking, you know, waffling on laughing lips. Yeah, that, like, sounds good, you know, and you'll be able to pick it apart a little bit, ask some questions as they go, but then you'll be like, oh, I see where your ego's at. Like, you have to, like, you're trying to impress me right now. This is very important to you to be right and to just look more knowledgeable instead of being like, whoa, I don't know. That's crazy.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

What do you think? Like, throw it back to you and then you're like, oh, I think I like this guy.

[Ian]

Yeah, that's true. The absolute best teachers I've ever had. It's like they didn't tell you a whole lot. They asked a lot. You know, I'm curious. Speaking of asking, how many of you, I wonder if your listeners are ever like, boy, that guy has A lot of therapists in his life. Like, I wonder what's wrong with him.

[Adam Thorne]

A family.

[Ian]

How do you know so many therapists?

[Adam Thorne]

Tons of mental illness in my family. That's all so burn through. Yeah. I just got to. I just got a circle. The circle.

[Ian]

Every single one of them actually just works for you. And you need 15 therapists to cope.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah. That's really where I spend most of my money just on. It's that and then listening to Rogan and doing reviews. It's a strange life.

[Ian]

I like it.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, it's a strange, strange life. But I feel like I'm getting somewhere. I feel like I'm working into it.

[Ian]

I see the change.

[Adam Thorne]

Did anything stand out? Whether it was from like Corset, he's like, research into finding the lost city of Atlantis or like the potential global climate destruction of the younger Dryas?

[Ian]

Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, all of it's interesting, right? Yeah. I went down this. So we've got a newborn at home. So there was a lot of like holding a baby while it sleeps and. And don't do anything else. So I was watching this guy, North02 YouTube channel. Awesome stuff. Super interesting. It's all pre history.

[Adam Thorne]

Nice.

[Ian]

But he just talks about like, you know, settled science. So he's not going to be like, well, maybe, you know, cavemen were actually using, you know, space lasers and stuff like that. He's like, it's like it's a history lesson. But, you know, he kind of. He kind of dished on Hancock very subtly a couple times, you know, like, well, you know, he's doing this, he's doing that. And this is the feeling I get so much, you know, especially because we're kind of in this, like, battle of experts. You talk to Corsetti, he's going to lay out his case. It's going to be super interesting. You're going to be like, damn, this guy's onto something. Yeah, what the hell? Archeology. Like, where are you? Like, give me some answers. And then you go talk to an archeologist and they're going to be like, no, no, no, no, he's an idiot. Here's why he's an idiot. None of the things he's bringing up have any merit. And you're just like, all right. And you could go back and forth between the two forever.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, probably right.

[Ian]

And they will never. Neither of them is going to concede, like, yeah, maybe I did stretch that a little bit. Or like, yeah, no, actually this is a major hole and we're Completely baffled. We have no explanation. That's what stuck out the most. It's like I've kind of been. Right. Like I've listened to Graham Hancock on Joe Rogan, you know, like for years. Right. Like he's been on a lot.

[Adam Thorne]

Oh, yeah.

[Ian]

Over the. You know, in the grand scheme of.

[Adam Thorne]

Things, dude, he was like one of the first.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Like, legitimate guests that went on. There wasn't a stand up comedian. And I feel like, I think that like he. Graham plays a role. This is why Rogan loves him so much. I like, I think he plays a role in like allowing.

[Ian]

He's like a court jester, but like.

[Adam Thorne]

In a good way, almost 100%. I mean, well, that's like any comedian in a sense too, as well. And I, and, and I think Rogan connects with Graham in that sense because Graham will go outside the lines. Like, talk about thinking outside the box. Like, he doesn't even know where the box is. Like some of his early work was just like, you know, I don't care if people mock me for this, but he was a legitimate enough writer and thinker that all of a sudden it added this new element to Rogan's podcast and he started to get all these different non comedian guests on and it led into this thing where eventually he's fucking interviewing Donald Trump and Trump crushes it.

[Ian]

That's crazy. That is so interesting that this is sort of where it all began, I think.

[Adam Thorne]

I think there's an argument for that. For sure.

[Ian]

Yeah, totally. Well, and it's like kind of a gateway drug for questioning authority, I guess, you know, because you're like, yeah, why are the pyramids so big?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, why are those, like, so massive?

[Ian]

Slaves. Yeah, like slaves.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, slaves.

[Ian]

But like, you're not interested? Like, aren't you interested?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Also, are we that sure that slaves were this good at building shit? Like, one thing that they said that really stood out is like, so the pyramid is like a. The base of it is a perfect square. You know, you always think of pyramids as triangles, but when you, like see the whole thing, the bottom of it square, so the whole length of it, which is. I can't remember if they said 700ft or meters, but it's long, right? It's a big ass fricking. One side, one side, one side, one side.

[Ian]

Oh, massive.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, yeah. It doesn't get off by 2 inches.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And you can't even do that with like a string, which is like how they use for like even building today. Like, you ever see people laying Bricks or building a wall. They put like the string up and you just stay right.

[Ian]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

You can't do it with something that long. It just won't blows.

[Ian]

The wind dips.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, exactly. It a sag and the humidity, whatever. So he was like they could have used some sort of mirror technology where it's like focuses some light and you can kind of build like a beam, you know. And they have things like that today when you're leveling stuff at your house. You can have like a laser that like tells you if it's straight, but it just like there's so many elements of it that are just like. We're literally having to take it for granted in order for it to fit inside the narrative.

[Ian]

Doesn't it kind of seem like a lost. Doesn't it seem like a lost opportunity for archaeologists?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, but it will make them seem like they don't have the answers and again, they need the answers to feel legitimate. If they're like, we don't know how excuse exactly. If like for them to not be confident enough to say realistically, we have no idea how they built these things. However, we're still the experts. Can you believe that? We are. They're too afraid to say it like gross.

[Ian]

Just say like, isn't this amazing? Like yeah, that's why. That's why we dedicate our entire life to looking at a bunch of old piles of stones.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, but we're not sure. Yeah, we've got some idea, but not a lot.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And we're missing a ton.

[Ian]

Well, it's a missed opportunity.

[Adam Thorne]

It is massively. And what it is is if you think about it in terms of like an investigation. Right. Even down to like the 911 committee invest. It's like if you're not asking the right questions and you're trying to make ridiculous assumptions just to fill in these gaps, you're never going to get to the truth. You're never going to get to the answer. And I feel like that's what archeologists are doing in some areas. They have a lot of good things that they're bringing to the table. Don't get me wrong.

[Ian]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

But I think that it's a missed opportunity in the very ancient the type of things. But anyway, yeah, let's wrap up with. With Corsetti. I thought these guys were great, you know, and Richards was awesome. He was a nice addition to it. I liked having him on and yeah, I'm really hoping that there's going to be a breakthrough soon. Right. Someone finds something and then they're just like, holy shit, we've been here a million years, and, oh, yeah, everything's changed and. Yeah, just something like. I feel like. I feel like we're getting close here for it.

[Ian]

Yeah. When it. When it comes, I'm. I'm. I'll be first in line to know more.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, we have you right back on the show, then. Next up, we got Josh Brolin. Obviously, we know him from no country for Old Man. Just so many great characters. Thanos from the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I mean, technically, the ultimate bad guy in a sense. You know, Sicario. I mean, just so many great movies. I mean, the dude's awesome. Also, don't forget the Goonies. He was the older brother. The older brother in the Goonies? Yeah. Yeah.

[Ian]

Okay. Yeah, there you go.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. Do you remember the older brother in Goonies?

[Ian]

Of course not. No, I don't. It's been like, 15 years since I've seen that.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, no worries. He was the one that, like, had the cute girlfriend.

[Ian]

Okay. Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

So his little brother tried to make out with him, and she was just like, huh, you have braces. And then that's how they. Dude, come on. If you were in the Goonies, you're a legend.

[Ian]

Oh, man. I mean, he's a cool guy. It's a. I think we chatted about this where it's like, you know, there's so many famous, rich, powerful people in the US have relatively normal upbringings, which is kind of interesting, you know, because you, like, from the outside looking in. Anybody famous is like a different. They've got to live some totally different life. They've got. They're probably unrelatable. They're probably totally out of touch, but, man, what a cool dude. Everything. The more I heard Josh Brolin talk, I'm just like, yeah, man, I wish. I would love to have a barbecue at your house or, like, hang out with you for the afternoon. I bet you've got great stories, you know, Just a genuinely interesting guy.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

And the other thing that I thought listening to the two of them top talk is like, oh, fuck, I got to read more. They both read a lot, Josh, and the two of them, they read.

[Adam Thorne]

I think. I think Rogan's more of a book on tape guy, but he gets through, which still counts. And. And Josh, definitely. I mean, there was, like, a depth to him that, yeah, was really fascinating and, you know, also kind of not surprising, like, just from seeing him in roles, I'm like, oh, that guy is a thinker. You know? It's like, right when I found out that Keanu Reeves is very much that way. Like a beautiful person and a deep thinker and just kind and hearted. It's like, how do you get that from watching Speed in the Matrix and these other movies? But I just had a feeling that was that guy. There's just. There's, like, a depth to the characters that they play in, which is kind of ironic with. With Keanu, because often people were like, oh, he's terrible. Actor and goofball.

[Ian]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

I always felt like there was more there.

[Ian]

Oh, I feel like he sells it. You know, he's gonna go like, yeah, yeah. I mean, Neo's a great character. There's like. You feel like.

[Adam Thorne]

Have you. If you watch that recently.

[Ian]

Yeah, the old ones.

[Adam Thorne]

The first one. Go back and watch the first one, dude. Not only does it hold up, and not that many movies from that long ago. Think that's 25 years old now. Dang. Yeah. 99, I think it was made. It doesn't just hold up that well. It. It's so much spookier now because of, like, after Covid, after AI is coming up. You know, people are, like, not living in virtual reality, but, like, we're getting. We're getting that technology coming, and you.

[Ian]

Just like, well, have you seen that thing circulating where they're like, okay, when the Matrix came out and the machine said 1999 was the peak of human civilization, I was like, yeah, come on, 2020 is going to be lit. And now that I'm in 2024, I'm like, you know what? 99 might have been our high point.

[Adam Thorne]

100%.

[Ian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Like, seriously, the 90s was dope. 911 was a turning point for us. Do you know what's actually interesting and a very strange coincidence? When they look at his passport. So you remember when Agent Smith is interviewing Neo, his passport is dated 9 11, isn't it?

[Ian]

9 11, 2001.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Even.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

That's when it expired.

[Adam Thorne]

It's like that specific.

[Ian]

Obviously, when you hear things like that. What do you think? You think it.

[Adam Thorne]

Coincidence? Just a coincidence, however, because I also like to believe in, like, just wild. Yeah, yeah. A little bit of Twilight Zone. I do like to just play with the idea of, like, ooh, simulation and. And, yeah. Who knows what else? I mean, because somebody.

[Ian]

Somebody's.

[Adam Thorne]

If it was 9 11, 2001, and it was a passport shot from any other movie. I mean, I think Jason Bourne, for example, you always had, like, 14 passports. And he's, like, going through different.

[Ian]

Right.

[Adam Thorne]

You know, he's trying to run away from Interpol or whatever. So he's like, here's my new passport. It's like, well, who cares? That is that. I mean, he. He's like a spy guy and these different things. But, like, is that that connected the fact that the Matrices is itself. And Neo is the one that, like, does this whole thing to kind of let everybody know that this facade that we're in is just. Yeah, it's. It's all fake. It's like, it just kind of stands out. It's fun, man. It's fun stuff. I love it when they find that shit.

[Ian]

Yeah. It's kind of uncanny, you know, in a way. And. Yeah. The Matrix, man. That's become. Right, what, like the red pill. Such a. Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Blue pill.

[Ian]

Red pill. It's about into our cultural.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Like one of our stories at this point, that's for sure.

[Adam Thorne]

Definitely. And, you know, this is what's great about these types of actors is they can. They can take you on journeys that you know, that no one else can. And this is why it's really interesting when you get a show like True Detectives, Right. So you bring in Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson, you know, legendary old school A list celebrity movie stars go into a TV series, and then all of a sudden we're like, holy shit, this is so next level. Because, you know, even great TV stars are good actors, but they don't have that. There's a reason A list movie stars got picked, and it's because they have something else. They're just able to bring you stories that. That no one else can do, like.

[Ian]

Yeah, well, and that's something I always took for granted growing up, is that movies feel real. Yeah. Right. Well, you want them to the older you want them to. And I think the older you get and the more you can sort of really pay attention to a character, the more these A list actors, like a really good actor who really takes it to the next level. Like, they keep that alive because you're like, whoever you're playing on stage is real right now or on the screen, like, this character is a real person.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Even though they never existed. You made them up. Somebody wrote them.

[Adam Thorne]

Do they almost Memorial sometimes. Yeah, totally. Yet if you and I made him short film, you know, just for fun.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

No one would believe what we're doing. No, Nobody. Nobody would be immersed. All that they would look at.

[Ian]

Somebody would be like, snickering behind the camera, too. So that wouldn't help. They just, like, that would not Help.

[Adam Thorne]

All they'd be reminded of is these two people can't read lines very well.

[Ian]

Yes. So to be like, wow, they suck.

[Adam Thorne]

You think to go from that to this thing where you are, like, emotions that you haven't felt for weeks are being pulled out of your body.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And. And you're hoping and praying and believing and willing and afraid and happy and sad and all these things over two hours sat in the dark watching a movie. It's like. Yeah, it's kind of magical.

[Ian]

Oh, for sure. And maybe just to bring it all full circle, like, maybe that's where sort of establishment thinkers, establishment news establishment, everyone has just really dropped the ball. Like, all you had to do was be convincing. Like, keep us entertained.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

And we would have kept on watching.

[Adam Thorne]

We would have drank that Kool Aid for a million years.

[Ian]

Oh, every last drop. You know, but it's like the moment. The moment you're like, okay, you're staring at this camera, you're. You're goofing your lines. Like, the moment the magic is gone. Like, you had one job.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Ian]

Like, either actually be an. A thinker with integrity who's passionate down to their core about the mystery of our past. Like, be that. And then you don't have to fake it. Or at least fake it well.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Ian]

Because if you can't do one of the two, people are going to lose interest and they're going to listen to Graham Hancock, they're going to listen to Crusade, they're going to listen to somebody else who either believes it or sounds like they do.

[Adam Thorne]

This is interesting that you bring that up because I received some emails, like, it's not uncommon for listeners to email me about episodes as they come out and be like, oh, you've got to talk about this. Or this is really interesting that Josh brought up all these different things and, you know, it's hard to go through them all because often it's quite a few and, you know, some of them are not that massively coherent. No offense to people listening, but it's sometimes. Sometimes difficult to follow, like, where your point is, though. I appreciate the emails and you should do a reading.

[Ian]

Emails on session.

[Adam Thorne]

I could do. Yeah, we could do a little bit of that if they. I would want the people's permission, I think, before I do it. Or maybe I won't give their names out. But one thing that A pattern that I was seeing about Brolin is one not afraid to come on, even though he's a Hollywood guy. After Rogan endorsed Trump and, you know, his show is being seen as more right wing and you know, so they're brave. He's just like, fuck it, I do my thing. Also just how he talks about like overcoming challenges, like kind of being his addiction, for example, which we really should talk about. It's like he had that like he's a badass and he's tough, clearly.

[Ian]

Totally.

[Adam Thorne]

But he's also like vulnerable in the right ways. Like he was absolutely wasn't on there trying to impress Rogan. He was just being him and it just happens to be impressive.

[Ian]

Totally. And that's what I loved about him. Just like right from the start you're listening to him talk.

[Adam Thorne]

It's better over here now.

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[Adam Thorne]

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[Ian]

Fitness and win the seconds of the day? Well, at least that's my goal.

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[Ian]

It just. It feels like it's. It feels like a real person.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

You know, maybe that's a dick thing to say, but man, there's so many polished Personas.

[Adam Thorne]

Especially.

[Ian]

Oh my gosh. Yeah. You know, and he talks about everything. He says. It's not like this is a carefully curated story. You're like, you are just being open with me. He's like, yeah, you know, I got so stressed about buying, moving back to my hometown that my face went numb on one side.

[Adam Thorne]

Right.

[Ian]

You know, and you're like, you didn't think about telling this story before you came on. You're just talking.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

You're being. Yeah. I don't know. Is it. He's a cool dude.

[Adam Thorne]

Well. But I always love that about people that are like, this is my experience, you know.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

It's like, hey, yesterday I cramped my pants. That's my experience. Is this a problem? Whereas plenty of people are like, I never did that. I never did this wrong. I never did these things. None of that is, you know, it's just like this denial because they have, you know, you have to kind of orchestrate a fake image of yourself. And then you stand behind us, you're showing that and not yourself, and you're like, oh, I gotta remember what it looks like. Oh, it's really tall and it's strong and it's got a lot of makeup on. It's very pretty. And it's got. Yeah.

[Ian]

It never says this thing exactly. Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And it's like, you're depressed. You're depressed right now. Just be depressed. It's okay.

[Ian]

Right. Interesting.

[Adam Thorne]

Maybe that's.

[Ian]

What's that.

[Adam Thorne]

What's worse? Like, you're a therapist. What's worse than someone being depressed and trying to deal with it and talking about it or Someone being depressed, pretending that they're not depressed because they have a job where they can't even admit that it's happening.

[Ian]

Oh, yeah. If your one goal in life is don't let anyone know that you're actually depressed. Yeah, that is.

[Adam Thorne]

Rough spot to be in, dude.

[Ian]

Oh, man. And maybe the worst.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, maybe the worst, dude. Because then you got no space to just be like, I'm having a shit day.

[Ian]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

You know, and this kind of circles back around to a lot of what he was saying about, you know, his addictions, drinking, the party world, and finding the strength to say, yeah, I'm doing recovery. I'm stopping this. You know, I think about it every day, but I know this is better for me, and just kind of sticking with that. I mean.

[Ian]

Yeah, yeah. Fucking legend, man.

[Adam Thorne]

Hard to do.

[Ian]

Yeah, super hard to do. And, you know, he does a great job of, like, telling stories and making himself the butt of the joke and kind of, you know, like, taking the weight off it, but, like, an everyday struggle. Yeah, I'm sure. You know? Yeah, every day, for sure. It's funny because there's actually. I do not have Spotify Premium, so I get all kinds of ads when I'm listening to these and watching these. And, like, it's funny how much, like, sports betting, like, gambling at home ads are up, you know, because, like, sure, you're not going to wreck your body, which is. That's a plus, you know, And Joe, like. But it's a huge addiction for a lot of people and just gambling. And, like, man, for sure it is.

[Adam Thorne]

You want. You want to know something? At the beginning of this episode, I read a DraftKings ad, this one we're doing right now.

[Ian]

Can I talk about it?

[Adam Thorne]

Well, you're talking about it right now. Do you want to do the ad? You could read it. I haven't put it in yet.

[Ian]

Okay. Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

All right, I'll send it to you.

[Ian]

You read it.

[Adam Thorne]

You got to send it back. It'd be funny for the listeners because they would have already heard you say ironic.

[Ian]

Yeah, because, right. Like, oh, by the way, I don't know if you know it. I don't know if you know this, but.

[Adam Thorne]

But it's very true. But also, look at it like this. It's like, it's okay to sell your own whiskey brand, yet there's also people addicted to alcohol. So it's like, are you bad because of that? It's like, I guess. Could you put it in the same category as cigarettes? It seems like cigarettes are trying to kill everyone across the board.

[Ian]

Oh, but they're fun, right?

[Adam Thorne]

Alcohol isn't necessarily trying to do that. And the idea of gambling is that you can win, though most people don't. But then it seems like most people at least enjoy the act of it, you know, it's. It's a slippery one.

[Ian]

Totally.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Yeah. Did he go into much of, like, what pulled him out or what? What was kind of his. What did he hold on to? What does he hold on to?

[Adam Thorne]

It was like, well, what made him clean up?

[Ian]

Yeah, it was.

[Adam Thorne]

It was rock bottom stuff, you know?

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Like he bumped into Philip Seymour Hoffman at a restaurant and he's just like, shirt off, shoes off. Just like, hey, man, good to see you.

[Ian]

Good to see you.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Yelling at him from across the street.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. It probably doesn't take many moments like that. You know, the weird thing about Josh's career is, like I said, he was. He was famous from Goonies. He was very young then. You know, he's probably like 18. So I think he had like 10 or 15 years where he just wasn't anywhere as big. And as far as I remember, no country for old man was when he, like, really shot back in and I.

[Ian]

Mean, really made it back to the surface.

[Adam Thorne]

He definitely was in his 40s then, so that was. That was a jump. And that comes with some pain.

[Ian]

Oh, no doubt. But I mean, you've got to like. I think that's something from the outside looking in. You're like, oh, look at yourself. You know, you're on the street. You don't have shoes on. You don't have a shirt. I think it's so easy when you're not in addiction to. For it to seem like an obvious choice. Right. Like, oh, just stop doing that. That. That's a crappy option.

[Adam Thorne]

Right, Right.

[Ian]

But it's like, there's just.

[Adam Thorne]

No, you're in chaos.

[Ian]

It doesn't do it justice.

[Adam Thorne]

You're in highs and lows and a bunch of chaos and.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And.

[Ian]

And that's the only thing that's given you a break.

[Adam Thorne]

Right. And it's basically like. It's almost like a tightrope walk as well, you know?

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

It's like, yeah, you can stay on it for a while if you practice. Right. So these people that are in this kind of addiction, chaos, they get good at just maintaining, like, just keeping their head above water. But you're not making huge strides. You're often not building really good relationships. I mean, you're not enhancing your life a big deal. And at the end of the day, you got a skinny bit of rope under you that if you just take your eye off for one second, you're flat on the ground. So they're real close to just wiping themselves out. And. And sometimes that's the catalyst that they need.

[Ian]

Yeah. To be like, face plant. Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

It's funny because Joe asked him. He's like, when did you hit rock bottom? He's like, oh, when I was 16.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Jesus.

[Ian]

I think he said that. And, you know, and that was not when he turned his life around like that. Right.

[Adam Thorne]

No, no. Which is interesting, right? It's like, that's when it was at its worst. And then he found a bunch of ways to cope. And, you know, hey, if anyone can actually figure out, like, the perfect mechanism for getting somebody out of addiction, I mean, yeah, that would be worth more than any pharmaceutical drug, for sure.

[Ian]

Oh, my gosh.

[Adam Thorne]

But it seems pretty different for everybody.

[Ian]

It's probably going to be up there with, like, who built the pyramids? Or how did they build the pyramids? You know, how.

[Adam Thorne]

Because, I mean, the cure to cancer, you name it.

[Ian]

Like, even treatment centers, right? Like, the best of the best of the best. Nobody. Nobody has 100% recovery, dude.

[Adam Thorne]

The percentage rates are, like, shockingly low. And I don't want to take anything away from those drug rehabilitation centers, rehabs.

[Ian]

Oh.

[Adam Thorne]

I mean, I don't want to take anything away from them, but statistically, they're almost the same as people just deciding to stop for, like, it's. It just. I think that doesn't mean that they're bad at what they do. It just shows how complicated this issue is and how difficult it is for anyone to stop.

[Ian]

Yeah. I mean, it's such a good. That's probably like. That's such a good word for it, right? Complicated. Because it's so different for everyone. It's like. It's just.

[Adam Thorne]

It's like all be there, you know, for people to be like, oh, alcohol doesn't really affect me, or cocaine doesn't really get me, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, hey, there's. I bet there's something out there that could grab you. Yeah, you got grab.

[Ian]

Or the right situation. Right? Like, yeah, you're not gonna get hooked on this now with your job is good. All your friends are there. It's like, what if you. What if somebody gives you this drug the day after your life falls apart?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, that's a really good.

[Ian]

It's like, damn.

[Adam Thorne]

Then you only have one area of joy or perceived joy. And then yeah, yeah. But look, at the end of the day, fair play to him. And I mean, it is important to have these stories from individuals that have really improved their lives and can articulate it and can inspire others. I think that maybe that might be part of the path for most people to get out of it, you know, just to see that other people are like, hey, this is hard. It's still hard. It's hard every day. But this is why it's better.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And. And Josh does a great job of that. I mean, he can clearly inspire people and.

[Ian]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Adam Thorne]

It's very cool.

[Ian]

It was interesting how they spent so much time talking about Hunter S. Thompson. Oh, God. And they were like, you know, give him the contest legend for sure. And Joe's remarks were pretty, like, spot on. He's like, you got to take care of your body. And that's. That's sort of what ultimately, like, what. You know, that's what got him. That's what he, like, he had this, this mad. He was able to flirt with chaos.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

But it's like he didn't know how to. He didn't know how to stop.

[Adam Thorne]

Imagine if he did three days of detoxing per week. He just lived his crazy life. But like, from Tuesday to Friday morning, he was just.

[Ian]

Yep.

[Adam Thorne]

He's in the. He's in the cold plunge. He's doing push ups. He's working with a trainer, going to.

[Ian]

Bed at night, coffee, enemas. Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

And then. And then as soon as the weekend comes, just blasts. It just meth from Friday to Tuesday.

[Ian]

Yeah. Yeah. That was a trip. Here in his routine, it's like 5pm Start doing coke. Seriously?

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. I mean, of course his brain went to mush and, you know, part of this wild, wacky way that he lived, you know, it created the chaos dialogue that brought us, you know, gonzo journalism, that just kind of half fictitious, half real wacky narrative that just is so fascinating.

[Ian]

Well, there's, there's some truth to that. Right. Like the, like, I think many of the addicts among us are like, they're carrying some kind of burden that we either don't know how to handle or we get to conveniently ignore.

[Adam Thorne]

Right, right.

[Ian]

As a culture.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Right. Like, oh, we don't really know how to grieve. So some of us will just get by and some of us are going to, you know, become alcoholics.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

And like, yeah, it sucks to be them.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. No, I just pointed at myself when you said some of us will become alcoholics.

[Ian]

Ouch.

[Adam Thorne]

I'm Just kidding.

[Ian]

Will become. That's good.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, I mean, you know, I aspire to be. Got to keep practicing.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

Got to keep practicing.

[Ian]

Practice makes perfect.

[Adam Thorne]

I'll tell you what, though, Jitsu, I definitely really don't ever want to get to a point where it gets so out of control that I have to quit all the way. That would be a bummer, you know.

[Ian]

Interesting.

[Adam Thorne]

Well, because I've talked to enough people that are sober now and they do talk about how every day is part of that struggle. And it's almost like you tip it so far that then you're like, right, I have to be more concerned about this every day than anything else. And that's really the most important thing I need to stay away from. It's like, you know, I admire they can do it.

[Ian]

Revolves around it.

[Adam Thorne]

I admire that they can do it, but. Yeah, exactly. It's almost as big a part of their life as it was when they used it. It's not like you forget. And it's. That just seems my heart goes out to people that have that happening to them. It's rough.

[Ian]

Yeah. And that's. That's probably the best perspective to take. Right. It's like anybody who's in addiction just like love on them because it's like. Or just, you know, like whatever they're going through is hard as fuck any way you slice it.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah.

[Ian]

And we don't really have a better option for them.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah. And not. Not right now. We'll see what RFK does. Maybe you can bring some psilocybin or.

[Ian]

What'S that one out of a jungle somewhere? Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

What's the other one they've been doing down in Mexico? Ibogaine.

[Ian]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

It's like some ibogaine.

[Ian]

I have heard.

[Adam Thorne]

Clean them up.

[Ian]

Yeah, yeah, we'll see. It's like a. It's like a three day trip, isn't it?

[Adam Thorne]

It's not supposed to be fun. Yeah. That one is like, you're not doing that recreationally. You're just like, oh, God. My dad said what? To me, I'm a piece of shit. Oh, no. It's just like horrible reflection until you.

[Ian]

Quit all drugs podcast. First Joe Rogan podcast I ever listened to. This was probably like 08 or something like that. He brought somebody on. They were talking about iboga or ibogaine.

[Adam Thorne]

No shit. So like right when he started, basically, I think he started in 2009, but right then.

[Ian]

Okay, well, then it wasn't 2008. It was in high school. I know that much. Yeah, Yeah. I just remember, I was like, well, there's some guy on the Internet and he's talking about drugs and he's not all weird about it.

[Adam Thorne]

Yeah, that's why he's so freaking famous today, dude. That's why I do the review. Because these conversations early on were like nothing I'd ever heard. And I didn't think that it was gonna, like, change my life or the world in terms of like, oh, this is such intellectual, you know, TED talk level education that everybody needs.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Adam Thorne]

I was like, oh, this is what real talk is. We've been listening to the media and news and television and just shows for so long, we forgot what real fucking conversations sound like with brave people that can talk about whatever they want. And they did that, dude. I mean, it was edgy as fuck back then. And it was like, wow. It's like why Howard Stern was so famous. Just like he was saying anything but Joe could say more. Fun times, dude. Look, Josh was awesome. What a great guest. Corsetti. The whole thing. Thank you, Ian. Also, have a great freaking Thanksgiving, my friend, and great to have you on today. So we talk to you, everyone out there. Enjoy your Thanksgiving and we will talk to you guys next week. Cheers. Cheers.

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[Adam Thorne]

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[Adam Thorne]

So Yes.

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[Adam Thorne]

Yep.

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