416 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Marc Andreessen

Summary

Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast

Episode 416: Review of Marc Andreessen

Release Date: December 19, 2024

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Introduction

In Episode 416 of the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast, hosts Adam Thorne and his co-host delve into their analysis of Marc Andreessen’s appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience. This episode explores a wide array of topics discussed by Andreessen, including political polarization, election interference, media biases, and the evolving landscape of political campaigning. The hosts provide insightful commentary, enriched with notable quotes from their discussion to offer a comprehensive overview for listeners who might have missed the original podcast episode.

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Assassination Attempt on Donald Trump and Its Impact

Andreessen introduces his "divergent timeline theory," pondering the hypothetical scenario of Donald Trump having been assassinated during his presidency. The hosts engage in a speculative analysis of the potential ramifications of such an event.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Host 1 reflects on Andreessen’s idea, stating, “I don't want to say the universe but like America and the history of the rest of the world could have gone in a totally different direction. The assassination attempt on Donald Trump.” [02:30]
• Host 2 discusses the polarization that persisted despite the assassination attempt, noting, “People got very amped up over this happening. You people are like, he's so cool... he stuck his face out there.” [03:25]
• The hosts debate whether Andreessen believes a successful assassination would have led to a civil war, with Host 2 asserting, “Civil war. Honestly, I think that there would have been a lot of... an absolute civil war.” [05:17]

Key Insights:

• The assassination attempt, while terrifying, inadvertently reinforced Trump’s image among his supporters.
• The hypothetical assassination could have led to unprecedented political instability, potentially escalating to civil conflict.

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Election Interference and the Twitter Files

Andreessen raises concerns about election interference, specifically referencing the "Twitter Files." The hosts critique the media’s selective coverage and the alleged bias against Republican interests.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Host 1 emphasizes media bias, stating, “If it was something the Republicans were doing and then the Twitter files came out... they’d still be talking about it today.” [13:14]
• They discuss the suppression of information, with Host 2 noting, “It's hard. The whole censorship topic is tricky...” [13:21]
• The conversation highlights how the handling of the Twitter Files reflects broader media biases: “It's protecting American interests.” [14:09]

Key Insights:

• The hosts argue that mainstream media selectively amplifies information that aligns with liberal narratives while downplaying or ignoring similar issues within Republican circles.
• There's a call for greater accountability and transparency in how social media companies handle politically sensitive information.

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Biden’s Handling of Hunter Biden’s Laptop

A significant portion of the discussion centers around President Joe Biden’s actions concerning his son, Hunter Biden, particularly the handling of Hunter’s controversial laptop.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Host 1 critiques Biden’s protection of his son, stating, “He sent the FBI to Facebook to say, hey, don't talk about this.” [14:28]
• Host 2 reflects on the ethical implications, saying, “As a parent, I feel like that's what you do.” [14:40]
• They compare Biden’s actions to what they speculate former President Trump might have done in a similar situation, with Host 1 asserting, “He’s a lunatic. Sorry.” [18:31]

Key Insights:

• The hosts question the intersection of personal and political ethics, examining whether it is appropriate for a president to intervene on behalf of a family member in a political context.
• They highlight the potential damage such actions can inflict on public trust in political figures and institutions.

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Campaign Spending and Celebrity Endorsements

Andreessen discusses the extensive campaign spending by political candidates, particularly focusing on the use of celebrity endorsements, which the hosts scrutinize for their authenticity and impact.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Host 1 criticizes Kamala Harris’s campaign spending, noting, “She spent $1 billion on this campaign, which is a ridiculous amount of money.” [25:06]
• They debate the effectiveness and ethics of paying celebrities for endorsements, with Host 2 questioning, “Why wouldn't these celebrities just donate their time if they genuinely do support?” [26:34]
• The hosts draw parallels to traditional campaign strategies, emphasizing that while spending is a strategy to win elections, it may erode trust: “Look, at the end of the day, whoever wins and whoever is the best at winning should be your president.” [28:42]

Key Insights:

• Heavy financial investments in campaigns, especially through paid endorsements, may be perceived as insincere or manipulative by voters.
• There is a tension between effective campaigning and maintaining genuine, trust-based relationships with the electorate.

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Decline of Mainstream Media and Rise of Independent Platforms

A recurring theme in the discussion is the perceived decline of mainstream media outlets and the concurrent rise of independent platforms, particularly podcasts, as influential mediums in shaping public opinion.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Host 1 asserts, “The decline of mainstream media, right. And the rise of independent platforms.” [31:27]
• They highlight the role of podcasts in modern elections, noting how traditional media may be losing its sway: “Podcasts are a pretty close companion.” [32:15]
• The hosts discuss the influential reach of podcasts, using Trump’s appearances as an example of how powerful independent media can be: “Trump didn’t pay for any of them. None of them.” [31:58]

Key Insights:

• Independent platforms like podcasts offer a more authentic and unfiltered means of communication, which can significantly impact political discourse and voter engagement.
• The shift towards digital and on-demand media consumption is reshaping how political messages are disseminated and received.

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The Role of Podcasts in Modern Elections

Building on the previous section, the hosts explore how podcasts have become pivotal in contemporary election strategies, emphasizing their ability to engage younger voters and provide in-depth conversations with political figures.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Host 1 remarks on the importance of candidates appearing on podcasts like Joe Rogan’s to reach a wider audience: “If all of the major candidates don’t go on his show, they’re not gonna have much of a chance at all.” [35:04]
• They critique traditional media formats, suggesting that lengthy, genuine conversations are more effective than short debates: “Sit down, have a long conversation. You know, people gave Rogan a bit of a hard time... but if you’re having a genuine conversation...” [35:48]
• Host 2 underscores the value of transparency and authenticity in podcast interviews: “It makes you feel connected and closer to these people and these candidates.” [34:17]

Key Insights:

• Podcasts enable politicians to present themselves in a more relatable and comprehensive manner, fostering deeper connections with voters.
• The interactive and unstructured nature of podcast interviews allows for nuanced discussions that traditional media often cannot accommodate.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Adam Thorne and his co-host provide a thorough and critical analysis of Marc Andreessen’s insights from the Joe Rogan Experience. They address pivotal issues such as political polarization, media bias, campaign financing, and the transformative role of independent media platforms like podcasts in shaping modern elections. Through engaging dialogue and thoughtful critique, the hosts offer listeners a nuanced understanding of the complexities discussed in Andreessen’s interview, highlighting the shifting dynamics of political communication and the importance of authentic engagement in the digital age.

Final Thoughts:

• The hosts emphasize the necessity for transparency in political campaigning and media operations.
• They advocate for the continued rise of independent platforms to ensure diverse and unfiltered political discourse.
• The episode underscores the importance of voter engagement, particularly among younger demographics, facilitated by the accessible and intimate nature of podcasts.

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Notable Quotes

1. Host 1: “It was the most American shit.” [03:25]
2. Host 2: “Civil war. Honestly, I think that there would have been a lot of... an absolute civil war.” [05:17]
3. Host 1: “If it was something the Republicans were doing and then the Twitter files came out... they’d still be talking about it today.” [13:14]
4. Host 1: “She spent $1 billion on this campaign, which is a ridiculous amount of money.” [25:06]
5. Host 1: “Podcasts are a pretty close companion.” [32:15]
6. Host 2: “It makes you feel connected and closer to these people and these candidates.” [34:17]
7. Host 1: “If all of the major candidates don’t go on his show, they’re not gonna have much of a chance at all.” [35:04]

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This summary encapsulates the essence of Episode 416, providing a structured and detailed overview of the key discussions and insights shared by the hosts during their review of Marc Andreessen’s appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience.

Transcript

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[Host 1]

You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you. Perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's Walking Dead.

[Host 2]

You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review.

[Host 1]

What a bizarre thing we've created.

[Host 2]

Now with your hosts, Adam Thorne. This might either be the worst podcast.

[Host 1]

Or the best one. One go. Enjoy the show. What's up ladies and gentlemen? Welcome to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. This week we've got Mark Andreessen on. Good to see him back. I like this guy. Rich guy, rich guys that know a lot of stuff. He started out with an interesting idea like this divergent of time or like timeline splitting theory. The first big split he felt where really like, I don't want to say the universe but like America and you know, the history of the rest of the world could have gone in a totally different direction. The assassination attempt on Donald Trump. Now what do you think things would look like if he actually had been killed?

[Host 2]

I mean I think there would have been a lot of really, really angry people. Yeah, it's, it's interesting because you know, you hear a lot of like the, the narrative of oh, I wish that he had, you know, gosh, this sounds even terrible to say, I love it, he had gotten shot and things like that. Like, like obviously you don't wish that on anyone, but that maybe some of this polarization in our political ecosystem could have been eliminated. And we, you know, whatever. Mostly from people who are very left leaning. They have this like, idea of like, oh, that maybe was the better way for it to go. Right. Because he didn't get shot. He didn't die. He almost. It. People got very amped up over this happening. You people are like, he's so cool. I mean, he stood up and he put his arm, his fist up. Like, you know, and a lot of people, like kind of resonated with that in this sense of.

[Host 1]

It was the most American shit.

[Host 2]

It was the most. Exactly.

[Host 1]

And so in the craziest way, like, obviously, I'm sure even Trump wishes he wasn't shot at. That was a horrible time.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Probably scary even for him. Like, that sucks. Nobody wants to be shot in the year. But when he looks back on it now, he's like, that was the dopest.

[Host 2]

Like, I didn't. Yeah, I didn't die. And people thought it was really cool that what I did in response. Right.

[Host 1]

Dude, he's in his late 70s and he didn't just stay on the ground and piss his pants.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

He got up, fist pumped and said, fight. He stuck his face out there. Like, don't. Like, I would have been an absolute mess.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And I'm not like, I don't feel like I'm a huge coward.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I just think that it's a realistic response to just cower away and try and get to your motorcade as fast as possible.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

It's. It's just something that, that would resonate with Americans.

[Host 2]

Absolutely.

[Host 1]

And to also say that he did that as some sort of plan, you know, not. Not the assassination. I mean, to get up and do that. Like, oh, well, he just did that because, you know, that's what Americans will. It's like, dude, you can't know how you would act in that situation.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Right. Most people would be terrified. And that is reasonable. He just got up and owned it. And you know, even Zuckerberg came out and was like, that's kind of the most badass shit I ever seen.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like, it's pretty undeniable. Like, you really have to dislike the guy to be like, oh, that wasn't important.

[Host 2]

Yeah. But to answer your question, what do I think would have happened if he had been assassinated?

[Host 1]

Civil war.

[Host 2]

Civil war. Honestly, I think that there would have been a lot of. There was obviously a lot of angry people that had happened in the way that the investigation went, you know, and that the attempt occurred in general. But had he been assassinated, I think the uproar would have been an absolute civil war. Like, that would have. I mean, I don't even know if we could have carried on an election in the same way. I mean, we. Something would have happened, but it definitely wouldn't have been, you know, business as usual.

[Host 1]

It would have been a very weird election.

[Host 2]

I mean, I think this is a great.

[Host 1]

No matter what, people would have been really frustrated by it.

[Host 2]

I think this is a great question for someone who lived during, like, the Kennedy administration and, like, how everything went down after Kennedy was assassinated.

[Host 1]

That's a good point.

[Host 2]

You know, I grew up in Dallas going to the Kennedy. The museum. You know, it happened there in Dallas. And you try to think about, like, being in that moment and, like, you know, the President of the United States literally dying and, like, being shot right in front of you and, you know, in his own vehicle next to his wife and, like, just kind of like the gravity of that you can't really grasp, especially as a child. But now being an adult and seeing that and thinking about the potential of it, like, it actually having occurred, like. Yeah, I. I don't know. I don't know. But, I mean. Yeah, I think it's a great question for someone that lived in that time. Like, how would it. How did you feel? Like, obviously, probably some real, real, real fear, like, about what's to come and the stability of the political system and. And so on. I mean.

[Host 1]

Yeah, it's super unnerving. Regardless, you know, it's. It's just chaos.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And then the next split that he talked about. So obviously, Trump didn't die. He survives. He gets through the election, and it's a sweep. He wins every swing state. The Senate and Congress win on the Republican side overwhelmingly. And not only that, he wins the popular vote.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Which hasn't been done by Republican in a very long time. And, you know, that is kind of a divergence. It's like. It's like, did really anyone expect that? I'm sure a lot of people did, but surprise me, like, wow, people are really disillusioned by what's going on in the left right now.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I think that's it. I don't think that I. I think I expected numbers to be low. I think I expected, you know, like, voter out, you know, voter turnout. Turnout to be low. I think I expected definitely, like, less votes for the left than they were expecting just based on. Maybe it's just my personal Views of like, sort of like complete distrust of what they were doing. But I also don't know if I expected quite so much to the right. And I think maybe people felt like there was this narrative, like during the 2016 election, like, if you don't vote for Biden or Hillary, then it's a vote for Trump. Right. Like, and so I think maybe that was sort of the same narrative. Like, people really didn't want the Democrats to be in office. They didn't want what they were doing to continue. And so they felt like they had their. How we, like, turn it on its head by switching sides, you know, whoever's in office. And so maybe that drove more people to go out and vote, but perhaps it's just genuinely that many people that believed in him and believed what he was, you know, promising and, and, and, you know, he had some really strong endorsements behind him, obviously, you know, especially in our world with the people that you, you know, you and I follow and listen to regularly.

[Host 1]

I mean, Elon was huge.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

You know, and he didn't come on board. He even said, he said it wasn't until I saw the assassination attempt.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And you know, just what that could mean and what was even happening in this country. And he was like, all right, I got that guy's back. And that was huge. That really was.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Some of that. I, I don't know how I feel about that, like, switch not switching sides, but like getting on board with a candidate just because they almost died. You know what I mean?

[Host 1]

I think there was. There's obviously more elements to, you know, just like if it was, you know, Harris's vice president nomination waltz or whatever.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

He was almost assassinated. Elon's not jumping on his bandwagon. There were a lot of other elements to it, I'm sure, but that was kind of like the straw that broke that camel's back to where he was like, I'm going over there now. Yeah, that's enough.

[Host 2]

It makes me think of. This is maybe off topic, but the. In Mean Girls, if any of you listeners have seen that movie and they're voting for Home or Spring Fling Queen and they say, oh, I'm voting for Katie Herring is. Or Virginia George because she got hit by a bus. Well, I'm voting for Katie Herring because she pushed her in front of it. It's like, it's like, just like voting for like the wrong reasons. I don't, I just don't agree with it, you know, and like, that was just kind of an off wall of like, you know, literally voting for someone because they got hurt in the process. Sympathy vote, you know, and it's.

[Host 1]

I don't feel like also bringing up chick flick movies to make your point on this podcast is just not gonna resonate.

[Host 2]

I know you've got some female listeners out there. Yeah, they know what I'm talking about. Like, that it's one of the best movies ever made.

[Host 1]

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[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

The Twitter files would have been if our media wasn't so massively biased and liberal.

[Host 2]

Well, yeah, if it spoke to their narrative.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Right. Like it was. It's a complete opposite of that. Like, there's. It is so liberal, them talking about these companies that support them and support liberal candidates Are censoring information to harm or, you know, the other side or help themselves? Basically. Yeah. It's hard. The whole censorship topic is tricky, again, for me, because I am just not sure, like, is this just. Is the ethics around it just so blurry that, like, we can't say this is right or this is wrong?

[Host 1]

Well, the government needs to be really careful. If it goes to a social media company and says, you can talk about this, you can't talk about this. Right.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

So. So things that are a national security issue, I think they have a case.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Because that's the kind of thing that's bipartisan.

[Host 2]

Right, Right.

[Host 1]

It's protecting American interests.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

But if it's to down, like, downplay the Hunter Biden laptop and say, oh, this is Russian misinformation, like, do not share this with people.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

And we don't need to be talking about it. Only for the president later to pardon his son so broadly over how many years? 13 years.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Makes you think, like, how. How? Like, I think as a parent, like, Biden clearly has just bailed his kid out of everything and never held him accountable. You know what I mean? It's like his kid's a crackhead. That's. Yeah, that happened. He. He downplays the laptop, like, sends the FBI to Facebook to say, hey, don't talk about this. Like, make sure they don't. Now, it would have affected his campaign as well. So maybe it was just for him, but it sounds like he's protecting his kid as well. Plus, that pardon. It's just like.

[Host 2]

Yeah, see, I, as a parent, have less of a problem, you know, with the idea that he's doing this to protect his child than that he's doing it to protect himself in this campaign. Right. Like, but probably both. But it's definitely both. I mean, you know, I. So, I mean, you try to put yourself in his shoes. If Trump was in his position, I just can't imagine he would do it differently. If wouldn't he just say, oh, yeah, throw Ivanka under the bus, because I don't want to, you know, I'm so stand up, good guy that, like, I'm never gonna.

[Host 1]

No, no, I get your point. But also, she doesn't smoke crack.

[Host 2]

No, no.

[Host 1]

But hang out with hookers and et cetera.

[Host 2]

Say something like that did happen. Right. And then it's like, you know, any parent, like, I feel like that's what you do.

[Host 1]

Well, then Trump would look like a dick as well.

[Host 2]

Yeah. If he did something like that. I think the real Issue is, in today's world, we have so much information sharing, Right. Like in previous elections in the 1950s and the 1980s, there wasn't cell phones. There wasn't, you know, videos of you anywhere and everywhere. There wasn't audio recordings of you. People weren't recording your voicemails digitally. Like, the social media stuff didn't exist. So the information sharing is so prevalent that anything that anyone does, even someone as high, you know, like as popular as the president's son or the, you know, president's daughter, it's like whatever they do is going to be talked about and someone is going to have a problem with it. And don't get me wrong, what, what Hunter Biden did is wrong. And it's. And it could be a security thing.

[Host 1]

But it's a little different when he films it all himself.

[Host 2]

I know it's stupid.

[Host 1]

Puts it on a laptop and then takes it to a store to have his laptop.

[Host 2]

So stupid. But again, if social media didn't exist, maybe if, you know, if he didn't have the laptop. So, like, I'm just saying, like, as technology evolves, as things evolve, we're going to continue to have these new issues. And so we have to find a way to say that, you know, one. Okay, this in admit this, of probably stuff like this probably happened before this technology existed. We just didn't know about it.

[Host 1]

So now that we crack for a long time.

[Host 2]

So now that we do know about it, how do we go about this? How do we say, how do we discount a presidential candidate for something that someone else has done? Right. Yes, it's his family. Yes. It's his blood, it's his child. But him protecting him, that's a genuine, like, good parent thing to do. Is it a good presidential thing to do? No, but how. But when you're a human, you can't necessarily, like, separate the two.

[Host 1]

Yeah, but he's not allowed to use the FBI to put pressure on social media companies. No, it's not as private.

[Host 2]

But does it put yourself. If we put ourselves in. If you're a good parent, what else?

[Host 1]

Hold your son accountable for the things that he does wrong? Look, if he's 12 years old, then, yeah, there's levels of protection. This guy's like, I don't know how old Hunter is in his 50s.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And he's a lawyer. It's like, look, dude, you're a lunatic. Sorry. Is a little bit of that. Yeah, yeah. And you know, it's. That's a struggle. And when it comes to the control of 1 social media companies, 2 using branches of the intelligence agency and really spreading misinformation that it was Russian propaganda is all really sketchy. And that was the way that he basically won the presidency.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, maybe.

[Host 1]

I mean it played a part. If it had come out, I don't know how we would have had.

[Host 2]

I don't know how we could. Right. But not, but it not coming out and him winning, I feel like our, they might be, what's the word? Like correlated. But maybe one didn't cause the other.

[Host 1]

That's true.

[Host 2]

Like so it's a big leap to say oh this didn't come out. So he won. It didn't come out. So his election wasn't tainted by it. Right, right. So those are two separate things. Those are two separate things. So I don't want. It's frustrating somet to hear this narrative go to oh this is absolutely why he won. He wouldn't have been in office if this had come out. I just don't know if that's 100% true. Would his, would it have been tainted? Absolutely. Should it have come out? Probably, yeah. And would have given the voters. But we can't say that it absolutely because some people just like with things that come out about, about Donald Trump, you know, it's like we don't care what comes out. We don't care what he does personally. We only care what he promises to do in office. And so perhaps Biden's, you know, loyal voters would have felt the same way. They would say it doesn't really matter what happens in his personal life, what his family members do, you know, what the FBI is doing while he's in office.

[Host 1]

But we're not talking about like the die hard people that would vote for a cabbage if it was a Democrat. We're talking about people that are really what the swing states are made of, people that are undecided, that actually vote different ways. And I think that would have played a big role in those things. And those margins are tighter than you think. You know it makes sense to me why.

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[Host 1]

They wanted to hide it, but the fact that they did and they got away with it. Right. And there's no prosecutions, nothing can happen to Hunter. It's just really not good politics. I don't think it gives people confidence in, dare I say, the party. Because it was more than just Biden that worked to do this. Yeah, it's, it's not pretty well.

[Host 2]

And I think that what it goes to show is that we need some accountability there. We need to revamp how this is done. We need to obviously have freedom of speech. We need to, when the information comes out, we need to know it. But it's obviously still blurry, like what is true and what is misinformation because, you know, say Facebook or Twitter at the time, they wouldn't have wanted to put this information out had it been false, had it been fabricated. And then they look bad, right?

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So they're relying, holding it for a time.

[Host 1]

They're relying on good information from the FBI. So those media companies don't trust the FBI right now?

[Host 2]

No.

[Host 1]

Like they're not going to listen to him. And so basically what you've done there is you've created this scenario where people are losing faith in our intelligence agencies, which is a bad move.

[Host 2]

Terrifying.

[Host 1]

But this is a, this is why these moves are so bad. This is why even attempting this is so awful. They lost credibility. I mean, people now are talking about closing down the FBI completely. That's what Trump's group is coming in and talking about.

[Host 2]

How would that work?

[Host 1]

Well, they just, the guy that is appointed to take over just wants to send them all out and be arresting people. He's like, wants to get them out of the office, says, you don't all need to be here. Just go do some police work. That's what you are. Just go out and do it. And people are behind it.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

You know, I don't know how they're going to do it, but it. They have lost confidence who is going.

[Host 2]

To find the serial killers.

[Host 1]

Good point.

[Host 2]

What?

[Host 1]

Well, we just wait till those really interesting shows come out.

[Host 2]

Will the BAU be closed as well?

[Host 1]

The whole.

[Host 2]

The behavioral analysis unit.

[Host 1]

What is that?

[Host 2]

You never. Criminal Minds. You've never watched Criminal Minds? Come on. It's the best show ever made.

[Host 1]

Well, they're still going to make those shows, babe. Don't worry about it. Okay, let's talk a little bit about the money that was paid by Harris's campaign to celebrities, celebrity endorsements. Now it's a little up in the air. People are kind of denying they got paid. And X, Y and Z. We do know that Oprah was her company, one of her companies was paid like a million or $2 million to like put on a big party for Harris.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

At the end of the day, she spent $1 billion on this campaign, which is a ridiculous amount of money.

[Host 2]

Absolutely.

[Host 1]

Is Paying celebrities to endorse her.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Right. I don't know if it's like fully fact checked and that's what happened, but there are pretty solid rumors about this and none of those singers are denying it.

[Host 2]

Right this way. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Because it's gonna look way worse for them. And yeah, it's like, what a terrible waste of money, I guess. Look, it's their campaign. They can spend it on whatever they want. And they were hoping that that would persuade people, but it's like, I just feel like if you've got people that are willing to spend money that way and then you put them in power, how ridiculous are they going to spend the government's money?

[Host 2]

Yeah. What. What makes me question this or what I question about this is if I had as much money as Beyonce did and I genuinely supported someone like Kamala Harris, you know, fellow female black woman who was in power, and, you know, I. I genuinely wanted them to win, I would probably donate my time or my platforms, you know, I mean, how much work does Beyonce have to put in to go to a rally and say something?

[Host 1]

It's a good point. And that's so.

[Host 2]

And I mean, she could probably even do a tax write off to say, I actually, you know, she has a business. She knows what she's doing. Like, she can say, I donated $8 million worth of my time and write it off in taxes, you know, to a charity, which is a government, you know, a political campaign. Like, I don't know why. I mean, that's where it feels weird. It's like if they got celebrity endorsements, and even if celebrities give money, it's like, okay, that's their choice. Right. Like, that's cash being infused into a campaign. Does feel a little bit off, but less so. When the campaign pays a celebrity to perform, I mean, they're getting paid for their work. Right. For the performance or for the, you know, the time. Not necessarily for the vote. Right.

[Host 1]

They weren't singing there, but they just.

[Host 2]

Came up and, like, at the dnc, they were. Right. So, like, at those times, like, those. Those artists. Those are paid as performers. So, like, okay, you could say I can't come because my. My manager or my comp. My, you know, record company won't let me. I don't think they paid Kid Rock.

[Host 1]

To go to the.

[Host 2]

Probably not.

[Host 1]

No.

[Host 2]

What would you have to pay him? Not much.

[Host 1]

He's rich.

[Host 2]

Is he?

[Host 1]

Kid Rock is super rich, babe.

[Host 2]

Okay. But he's not Beyonce rich. Okay. And so this. This what gets me is like, why wouldn't these celebrities just donate their time if they genuinely do support?

[Host 1]

But I think that's the point. And these aren't just rumors.

[Host 2]

Yeah. And it's. Yeah. I definitely think it makes them less trustworthy. The problem is, is it's this, like, facade for young voters sometimes, or uneducated voters or just ignorant voters that are like, oh, I like Beyonce. Beyonce likes this person. You know, by association, I'm gonna vote for this person. And that's what they're hoping for.

[Host 1]

Of course. Of course.

[Host 2]

But it's like, just. That's kind of a shitty way to go about it. I mean, it's not genuine.

[Host 1]

If it worked, I would say that's the way to do it. Look, at the end of the day, whoever wins and whoever is the best at winning should be your president.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Right. It's like, you've got. Given a lot of money, spend it the best way. Right. I mean, listen, you've got one task when you're running for president. One task, and it's to get elected as president.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

In the same way as when you are president, you'll get given tons of tasks, lots of things to do that you have to use your brain and figure out how to win it for America. You win it for America. That's what you do over and over and over again. That's the hope. Right. You do it with your party in mind, but that's the idea. So if your thinking is, oh, we get load of votes, if we pay for all these celebrity singers to come, and then you get completely destroyed. It's like you spent twice as much money as Trump and didn't even get close.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I think I feel differently than you on this because the. Yes. Their job as the presidential candidate is to win. Right. Is to get into office and carry out the agenda of the party and the voters. Right. I actually genuinely feel that the person that should, like you said, if the person that gets the most votes should be president. I don't think that. I think the person that does the most right things by the mass. By the masses of American people should be the president. Right. We've talked about this before. Kamala Harris raised $1 billion. Think about how much good she could have done towards the agenda that they had and actually put that money to work on things that. That were effective. Maybe didn't directly, you know, weren't trying to buy votes, but we're actually trying to make change or make improvements.

[Host 1]

Oh, yeah.

[Host 2]

Do something.

[Host 1]

That's a good point.

[Host 2]

That's who I think should be the. I. If, you know, every dime that was fundraised actually went towards, like, taking action, then. Then I would feel more. I mean, I would say, especially if it was the candidate that I supported their. Paul, their policies and their ideals would feel more trust in them, that they were going to carry out what they say they're going to. I think potentially on the flip side, if a candidate said, oh, I want, you know, to. To abolish this or I want to get rid of this, and I felt, you know, in the opposition to it and they put a bunch of money into it before they were even in office, then it would be more fearful. Right, Right. So. But I think it's more. I think the long story short, it's more impactful for them to do that rather than to get as many more votes. But in today's elections, that's all it is. It's getting the most votes. It's increasing voter turnout. It's, you know, and that's why they say, like, she had the most successful campaign in some way or another. I don't know what they're. How they're gauging that, but I think it was like, holy, barely.

[Host 1]

It was one of the most embarrassing things I've seen in a long time. Well, but this is a. This leans into one of the next things that Mark brought up, which is, you know, been bothering me for a long time. Like media decline. Right. And the rise of independent platforms. I mean if anything has been shown about podcasts in this last election is they are fucking real deal.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like they made a huge difference. Trump didn't pay for any of them. None of them.

[Host 2]

No. Yeah.

[Host 1]

And he went on, got million hundreds of millions of views between all of the, you know, YouTube, the Spotify, Apple, itunes. Like that's incredible. Didn't pay for any of them. Didn't have to.

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[Host 1]

Had conversations, hung out. I mean he brought out with Theo Vaughan, for God's sake. It's amazing. Theo like, wow. And just had a chat with him. I probably thought Theo was a bit weird, but he gave Theo.

[Host 2]

He's a bit weird, bless him.

[Host 1]

Theo. Theo's a good man. But yeah, he sat there and he talked with him. So in the same way, you know, Harris didn't go on almost any. She went on the daddy one, which nobody listened to. I don't even think. It didn't even get a million views. Yeah. And Trump's Rogan one was getting 1 to 1.5 million views an hour.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it can't be said enough for two days. She did herself a complete disservice not going on Rogan.

[Host 1]

And then the rest of media like MSNBC he was talking about in this, the demographic, 18 to 45 is less than 30,000 in males. We probably have more on this podcast. Yeah, that's msnbc. I mean, so thanks for listening we appreciate you guys.

[Host 2]

We don't neither of us watch or listen to it. I mean, I may maybe follow, like, large news stations on social media, but I have not turned the news on in my entire life. I don't use it as a source of information. I find it quite annoying, actually, having just, like, trash being repeated and repeated and, you know, fake personalities. It's like, they're so ingenuine. I guess that's what I really love about, like, the podcast circuits that Trump did was like, you got to really see Trump in a long form, you know, setting where you got to get. He got to get to know different people and you got to get to know him.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And it was just. It just makes you feel connected and closer to these people and these candidates. You know, whether it's a political candidate or just a genuine.

[Host 1]

Well, that's like. That's the last point I wanted to bring up. This might have been the first Internet election. Right. And that was something Mark talked about. And it's really interesting because, you know, he was saying, look, moving forward, this is going to be how these elections are run. And I really do think so. I think that moving forward, as long as Rogan is doing his podcast, if all of the major candidates don't go on his show, they're not gonna have much of a chance at all, because we don't trust to get to know them from those stupid debates that they do.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

They're so short. They give everyone, like, you got 30 seconds, you got two minutes, like, it's nothing.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Sit down, have a long conversation. You know, people gave Rogan a bit of a hard time, like, oh, you didn't push back on stuff, or you didn't make fun of him, or you didn't grill him about this and that. It was like, all right, but if you're having a genuine conversation with someone and you want to get to know him, you don't go in with gotchas.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Go in trying to be like, yeah, you didn't fucking do this, though. You just talk to him.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I mean, just let them talk.

[Host 2]

Yeah. He was.

[Host 1]

Enjoy it. Get in there.

[Host 2]

Rogui doesn't host a political show. His show is about a number of. Many a number of things. Right. It's. It's all across the board.

[Host 1]

And he's not in the business of falling out with his guests. Invited them there. He's not. Look, sometimes he'd call people out. If somebody comes on with some wacky bullshit, he will call him out.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But generally he doesn't do that. And he certainly doesn't do it with like a list celebrities. He gives them the respect that they're getting from everyone else that interviews them.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

You know, because everyone kisses these celebrities asses.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And Rogan just, you know, is polite. He just lets them go and it's cool.

[Host 2]

And yeah, I mean, I think elections, like many other things on our, you know, streaming, you know, content, all the things entertainment, it's going digital fully, you know, and we are, I think we're ready for it. I think the problem is like the older generations feel left out of this and they're like, oh, well, this is unchecked information. And like no one's censoring them. No, it's like, well that's what we have a problem with is censorship. We actually want unchecked information. You don't have to believe it, but I think it's important that it's out there and you also don't have to listen to it. Right. But you know, someone just seeks to go on and get the, the weather on CNN and yet they're getting flooded with information that's censored by people who have an agenda, paid by other agencies to have that agenda.

[Host 1]

I honestly think it's a benefit for democracy because the better your democracy is running, the more people vote. Doesn't matter for what side. They're just voting. Right. Young people generally have not been voting that much in general. This is why these political candidates don't focus on young people. It's like older people, dare I say, more serious people, people with responsibilities. They're the ones voting.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Once it gets on the Internet and podcasts and these types of podcasts, I think younger people are going to feel like, oh, maybe my vote does matter. And I have a bit of an idea of who this candidate is.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Because they're not sat there watching late night Fox News or CNN or whatever.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And they're like, I'm in this. Yeah, I'm going to vote.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I think all of this, this, this topic really, I mean we recently had sort of a, a inter family quarrel about a topic that was talked about on the Joe Rogan podcast, actually. And then you discussed it on a podcast with your friend that you know, as a, as a standing co host. And the, the issue between our family was, well, the older people, parents in our family, they hadn't ever heard about it. Well, it's not on the news, so it must not be happening. It must not be very prevalent because it's not on the news. Right, but why does that have to be the, the news stations, they don't have journalists. They're just picking stories that are hot topics and they're running with it. Right. Whatever is the biggest. And it's typically what's being trending on social media. Right. And so the issue. So yes, unchecked information can be dangerous, especially if it becomes false. But when it's true and it's being filtered out of mainstream media, and that was the question that I kept proposing to this family member. Well, what is mainstream anymore? Is it CNN that gets 50,000 streams or is it, you know, the Joe Brogan podcast that gets 50 million?

[Host 1]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

You know, like is it, what is mainstream? Is it downloads? Is it media? Like advertising spend? Like what is it?

[Host 1]

Well look, even Joe says I'm not the news. Yeah, right. So he's saying that. And a lot of other people that are used to mainstream media are also happy to say that he isn't that type of media.

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[Host 1]

CT mobile.com welcome to finally Caught, a true crime podcast from the hit North American and UK television series. I saw the one girl with her.

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[Host 2]

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[Host 1]

Caught, available wherever you get your podcasts. The fact is he is, he is what people listen to. They really trust him. They will go to him for things.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

He brings in people like Tucker Carlson and like other news, you know, giants. Let's be fair.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

To speak about things. They have respect for him.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And at the end of the day it's who people listen to and people are not trusting. Cnn, MSNBC people have always had back and forth issues with Fox News.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And now we have new places to go to.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

To hear really smart people talk about stuff and it's like, shit.

[Host 2]

I'll add just lastly that I think there is a potential for podcasters, especially those that are monetized or those that, you know, do have a large following to be paid by political candidates and say, I do want to pay you $2 million to be on your podcast because you have a large following. I think the main issue with all advertising. Well, yeah, but it. I think that could. Is absolutely.

[Host 1]

Joe would never.

[Host 2]

No, maybe not Joe, but any other podcast. Right. That's trying to grow their audience and really wants, you know, and obviously their income. Like that's a. I fear that that's a potential in the future. As in all just like social media influencers, they're taking money from candidates to say they endorse them.

[Host 1]

Lame.

[Host 2]

Absolutely. Super lame. So let's not do that.

[Host 1]

But you're right, there is the chance for that. And that should be something we should know about. In the same way is if you're paying celebrities to show up to your rallies. Yeah, we should know about it.

[Host 2]

Who should be disclosed. Beyonce. $8 million to be here.

[Host 1]

Like, you know, so everyone can know for sure. Oh, they don't give a shit about this candidate.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Creating content is one thing, but having non in transparency is a whole other issue.

[Host 1]

And yeah, look, Mark and Jason, great on this as always. Super smart. I love his input on just kind of what's going on in the world. Yeah, it's great to see him back on. I hope he comes on again. He's one of those guests that I'm like, I'm. I'm kind of pumped when I see him on there. I will say he needs to drink more water because he does this a lot. And he does. And then he freeze.

[Host 2]

Yes. So it's a bit of a hard.

[Host 1]

Listen, but maybe it's a sleep apnea issue.

[Host 2]

I don't know.

[Host 1]

Yeah, let's clean his nose out and give him some water. But his solid dude and great, great podcast. That's it for this week. We appreciate you guys and gals as always. We'll talk to you next week.

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[Host 2]

In the dry states of the Southwest, there's a group that's been denied a basic human right in the Navajo Nation. Today, a third of our households don't have running water. That's not something they chose for themselves. Can the Navajo people reclaim their right to water and contend with the government's legacy of control and neglect?

[Host 1]

Our water.

[Host 2]

Our future.

[Host 1]

Our water. Our future.

[Host 2]

That's in the next season of Reclaimed, the Lifeblood of Navajo Nation. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.