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418 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
00:36:20
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- [00:02]
Adam Thorne
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Derek
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Derek
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Adam Thorne
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- [01:33]
Brian Hubbard
You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and pass them on to you. Perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's Walking Dead.
- [01:51]
Derek
You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review.
- [01:54]
Brian Hubbard
What a bizarre thing we've created now.
- [01:57]
Adam Thorne
With your hosts, Adam Thorne.
- [01:59]
Derek
This might either be the worst podcast.
- [02:00]
Brian Hubbard
Or the best one. One go Enjoy the show. Schedule one says that there is no medical purpose for this compound, whatever it might be, and that it's addictive and ibogaine. Is neither of those clearly evidence? If there's as a Matter of fact, if there was a definition of a compound that was not Schedule 1, Ibogaine would be the top of the list, most likely.
- [02:30]
Derek
Yes.
- [02:30]
Brian Hubbard
All right, so welcome to the Joe Rogan Experience review. That was Rick Perry and Brian Hubbard talking with Joe Rogan about ibogaine. Now, you know, I knew who Rick Perry was, but never in a million years would I have thought the conservative ex governor of Texas would suddenly be the biggest advocate for ibogaine. Ibogaine treatment. Kind of wild, right?
- [03:01]
Derek
Yeah, it is. I mean, sort of unexpected characters in this. In this initiative. But I think that these two, at least, you know, seeing them on. On Joe's podcast, I feel like they make a really great team, and I feel like they're going to make something happen here, you know?
- [03:24]
Brian Hubbard
Yeah. And they're not seen as a couple of hippies that are trying to promote a psychedelic drug. You know, these are serious people, Rick Perry especially, you know, and he's drawn into this with an incredible desire to want to help these veterans that are struggling so badly. Yeah, it's powerful.
- [03:52]
Derek
I found it really powerful. I found the combination of these two, like I said, they are going to make an impact one way or another. They have sort of different motivations. Right. Different moving stories and people that have sort of driven them to get here.
- [04:14]
Brian Hubbard
Right.
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Derek
Perry talks a lot about, you know, this one specific veteran that impacted his life personally.
- [04:22]
Brian Hubbard
Yeah. Marcus Luttrell.
- [04:24]
Derek
Yes.
- [04:24]
Brian Hubbard
Legend.
- [04:25]
Derek
And, you know, Brian talks more about these other moving stories about just people, children, you know, even his wife that, you know, were affected by the opioid crisis and, you know, pharmaceutical companies and their.
- [04:42]
Brian Hubbard
Yeah, that whole bullshit story of opioids and how awful they've been. I'll tell you what, Brian Hubbard, interesting guy. I mean, the passion on that guy, it was almost. Almost like getting to, like, preaching energy.
- [05:00]
Derek
Yes.
- [05:01]
Brian Hubbard
I mean, this is someone that could not believe and have more passion in a subject than this. That's what I was getting from it.
- [05:09]
Derek
At some point, I liter to stand up and say amen, like he was sold.
- [05:16]
Brian Hubbard
Hallelujah.
- [05:17]
Derek
Yeah. He's so moving. I said in his stories and in his previous roles, talking about the impact he had, you know, managing the opioid crisis in Kentucky and, you know, having, you know, if he's not a motivational speaker, he should be. He's got the voice, he's got the passion, he's got the hair to go with it.
- [05:41]
Brian Hubbard
Right. He looks a bit like Zach Galifianakis.
- [05:45]
Derek
He. He kind of does, but, you know, it works. And, yeah, I Got teary eyed listening to him. I got angry listening to him. He just really brought a lot of emotions out for me, which I think is the way that you're going to have to go about something like this initiative, right? You're going to have to tap into people's emotions, not just their logic.
- [06:10]
Brian Hubbard
Well, it's appropriate when you think of what they're saying and it's that lives are being destroyed. Okay. This isn't a slight inconvenience, right? So these people's lives are getting destroyed. They're getting directed towards taking opioids to fix how they're feeling. And it's not doing that. It's creating addiction and death and destroying families while these pharmaceutical companies make a hell of a lot of money. And on the other side where Rick Perry is, he's seeing these veterans, you know, destroying their marriages and often committing suicide because they just are not getting the support that they need. There's like the treatments that they're given that they have access to. The VA is just not helping them. And we've heard this a lot, even from Special Forces people that we know personally, that it's, it's a real issue and, and it's heartbreaking. I wanted to play this clip from Tim Ferriss podcast about ibogaine. It's pretty short, but it gives an idea kind of what the experience is, what the trip is. So before we get into the rest of the review, I think it's kind of useful because when I was listening to Rick and Brian talking on this the whole time, I'm thinking I just, I don't know what it's doing. Like what is that thing that ibogaine does? But anyway, let's play this.
- [07:45]
Tim Ferriss
The thing that I found really interesting about this drug is that it produces what I think is probably the most stereotyped trip, if you want to call it, or the psychological phenomenon that happens alongside the drug effects. And so people will describe this earlier life autobiographical replaying of emotionally salient memories that are kind of epoched in time.
- [08:13]
Brian Hubbard
Some people would get Life review, right?
- [08:15]
Tim Ferriss
Life review or slideshow. Yeah, exactly. And so it's interesting, everybody's kind of got a different version of what the slideshow ends up playing out to be like for them. And so some people would say I found myself in this room and it was on my TV from childhood and all of a sudden it was playing all these things or I found myself in a hall of mirrors and it was playing all these. Like the context can be very different and the mind seems to shape that. But the actual replay seems to be pretty stereotyped.
- [08:42]
Derek
Stereotyped meaning it's a pattern that repeats.
- [08:46]
Brian Hubbard
Or it's just like a common characteristic?
- [08:47]
Tim Ferriss
It's a common characteristic and it's.
- [08:50]
Brian Hubbard
Yeah. So I don't know if that helps. That kind of. That gives me an idea of what's going on. You know, it's the slideshow review of your life, how you got to where you are and, you know, through that somehow that reflection. Maybe it's a process of, like, you just don't have the denial in there. You're faced with what you did to get to this, you know, and it's not to say that it's anybody's fault. I mean, when it comes to ptsd, that's not the person's fault or, you know, a pattern of behavior that led to it. But addiction is complicated, and it helps clean up people's addiction as well. Fascinating, really.
- [09:38]
Derek
Yeah, I think it's fascinating the way they describe it. Like, it rewires your brain basically to fix these things that are ailing you that you're falling into. Maybe you have resentment over it. Are you. You know, you're fighting it, but you can't. You're losing this fight with something. And I also find it very interesting that there's multiple scenarios in which this potential drug and process going through a treatment plan with ibogaine is useful. It's not just for people with one specific ailment. There's a lot. There's addiction, there's ptsd, maybe potential other issues that we haven't even discovered yet.
- [10:27]
Brian Hubbard
It seems quite broad. One thing I would add, you know, the further I get along in my new career as a therapist and a mental health therapist, you know, not to say that you see the holes in the system that you're working in, but, you know, you start to see what other elements can be useful. And this drug seems very effective when administered to help people through these things. Addiction, depression, and, you know, just these other kind of major concerns that they have in their life. But if you start training medical professionals, especially mental health professionals, psychologists, you know, that sort of thing, to be able to administer this medication and then, you know, have time to integrate what their experience was, follow up with appropriate therapy, things get more effective really quickly. So there's also the potential for this, you know, combination of therapeutic behaviors.
- [11:41]
Derek
Right.
- [11:42]
Brian Hubbard
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- [12:55]
Derek
And I, I think that veterans as a specific group of people, have less resources and more problems accessing those resources than the average individual. Right, right. And this group tends, you know, there is a high number of veterans that live in rural areas. You know, that's a, that's a statistic that you can find that if, you know, living in a rural area, having ptsd, maybe being lower income before going into the service or whatever, you know, you don't have mental health access. They're on VA benefits. And so they have like, sort of the cards stacked against them. And so the idea that someone like Brian Hubbard has $842 million in settlement funds is that. Right. Something like that. To manage in this sort of initiative to get ibogaine, like a ibogaine treatment plan going for individuals in these groups. You know, the, the struggle he's gonna have and the obstacle he's up against is ensuring that it reaches all the right programs in all the right areas in the right number. Right, right. So how do we know that it. You know, there's an. And on top of that, making sure that those funds don't get tied up through the red tape and the bureaucracy. Right.
- [14:23]
Brian Hubbard
Like, well, you know, I would assume that there's going to be a lot of stops put in place. I mean, this is kind of what like, the FDA is constantly doing is making it harder and harder for these types of treatments to be passed for whatever reason. I mean, it's probably because they're not going to be in bed with pharmaceutical companies. So there's not big profits there. And I mean, this is why it comes back to how Brian was talking about the opioid epidemic and how that has really been the solution for veterans really suffering up until now. Well, still is. I mean, ibogaine is not available, but, I mean, that was their option and it was quickly passed by the fda. And, you know, to say no oversight, it's a weird thing because, like, the FDA does a lot of things and it does protect us. It does make sure that drugs that get to market aren't killing people on X, Y and Z yet. They still kind of do.
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Derek
Yeah.
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Brian Hubbard
And there's some ugly ones that get through, and then they're massively overprescribed, and it takes years to kind of curb that and fix it. And who's taking responsibility for that? Yeah, you know, for the FDA to put their hands up and be like, look, we really dropped the ball on this and we took too long to fix it, and a lot of people suffered. And our job is to ensure safety. And, you know, we're really gonna put our best foot forward, find a better solution to help these people, because we've got ground to make up for what we've done. We've actually made the situation worse and destroyed families. So. Oh, now there's this new therapeutic potential solution. Obviously it's not legal. There's a lot of hurdles, but we're gonna work with the right people, do the research, find the efficacy, make sure it's safe, and push it through. It just doesn't seem like they work like that. It's almost like they just stand there going, no, you prove it to us and we're decide. And no, actually, you can't even study that. We're just going to make it like that.
- [16:37]
Derek
It's sad. It's sad to think that people could have, you know, whether it's pride or, you know, obligation to shareholders or whatever it is that may stop these individuals or these groups, you know, these pharmaceutical companies from admitting their faults and sort of like making amends and trying to come out and fix it, like you said, and really try to turn it around. Like, that's so unlikely. I think what's more likely is that individuals like, you know, Perry and Hubbard, they're going to make enough noise, they're going to build. They're going to build up all the right allies. They're going to get enough people behind them that there's going to be an undeniable evidence and support that, that they have no choice but to say, okay.
- [17:25]
Brian Hubbard
Fine, yeah, I hope so. Yeah, I really do. I mean, because it all comes down to access Right. At the end of the day. So obviously at first certain people will get access. Right. I'm hoping it's the veterans that are, you know, close to suicide or just really in a kind of their own self destructive kind of process, because that's where it needs to go. But all the way down to addictions and addiction treatment. I mean, in therapy, I know that there is a massive problem with addictions and it's, there's so many things you can be addicted to.
- [18:03]
Derek
Right.
- [18:04]
Brian Hubbard
And not everyone has access to a therapist. How effective addiction therapy is probably better than not going to any therapy, but addictions are tough to beat and there's a massive range of how affected you can be by this. So to create an environment where people have access to a treatment like this and we're talking a one time go through, you know, from what I've heard about it, it's not that you need to do ibogaine time after time after time to figure out where your issue is or I mean people are doing it and then they're like quitting drinking, quitting whatever drugs, quitting gambling. I mean it's, it's kind of remarkable.
- [18:50]
Derek
Yeah. I'm really anxious and excited to see what, what Perry does, you know, trying, I think sounds like he's trying to work with the Texas Medical center down in Houston, like partnering with them on the research behind this, the potential for this treatment and.
- [19:05]
Brian Hubbard
Oh, that's right. That's that huge hospital he was talking about.
- [19:08]
Derek
Huge hospital down in Houston. And you know what, what the potential is when you work with the biggest medical center in the country essentially, and you work with, you know, motivated people that do have put a lot of support behind their veterans, like the people of Texas and a motivated leader, leaders like these two, like they're, they're going to get somewhere. Yeah.
- [19:35]
Brian Hubbard
And you know what, he's the right type of person to be talking to Trump about this too.
- [19:40]
Derek
Yeah.
- [19:41]
Brian Hubbard
I don't think that Trump, even as a Republican leader has really much prejudice or biases against treatments for addiction and suffering veterans. I mean, Trump's brother died of alcoholism.
- [20:01]
Derek
Yeah.
- [20:01]
Brian Hubbard
He knows it's real.
- [20:02]
Derek
Yeah.
- [20:03]
Brian Hubbard
You know, just the stats on suicide alone that Perry and Hubbard mentioned. Unbelievable. It's so shocking. Almost feels like there's a kind of a systemic failure in the support of mental health needs for veterans.
- [20:20]
Derek
Yeah, I mean that's only, that's the only explanation. Right. Like it's, it's well known that people that, you know, serve in the armed forces and all the different branches, they they come back to real life and they struggle and they have these post traumatic stress disorders and these symptoms and these, these barriers to re acclimating into real life. Why is the system that's set up to help them medically basically creating more problems for them by getting them addicted to opioids? Like, why is that the solution? Why was it ever the solution?
- [20:55]
Brian Hubbard
It was probably all the options they were given. It's not like doctors just get to sit there and go, oh, we can give you anything.
- [21:02]
Derek
Right.
- [21:02]
Brian Hubbard
It's like as treatment plans go, this is the first thing that we can do.
- [21:08]
Derek
Yeah.
- [21:08]
Brian Hubbard
Because you're in a state, you're really struggling, that's kind of numb you. And I'm sorry. These things are so addictive.
- [21:15]
Derek
Yeah.
- [21:16]
Brian Hubbard
And I'm sure it's tough for the doctors too. And the VA is just, you know, under. Resourced.
- [21:22]
Derek
Yeah.
- [21:23]
Brian Hubbard
Underfunded.
- [21:24]
Derek
Yeah.
- [21:24]
Brian Hubbard
And it puts them in a really tight spot. I'm sure there's a lot of really passionate people that work there that hope that it could get better, but it's not also going to be the most progressive kind of health care that you're gonna get.
- [21:38]
Derek
Yeah.
- [21:38]
Brian Hubbard
Meaning they're not gonna try all sorts of, you know, more experimental. Yeah, yeah. Woo woo. Type, you know, they're not gonna put you out and be like, oh yeah, you just gotta do a bunch of yoga and meditation and. This podcast is brought to you by DraftKings Casino. Get your dollars up with dollar up on DraftKing Casino. Hit the reels for a modern take on old school styled slots. New players can play five bucks to get a spin on the mystery wheel. For a shot of up to 1,000 in casino credits, download the app and sign up with code JRE. Then play $up exclusively on DraftKings Casino. The crown is yours. Gambling Problem Call 1-800-Gambler in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly. 21/physically present in Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia only. Void in Ontario eligibility restrictions apply. One per new customer. Play $5 and spin the wheel to receive between 10 and $1,000 in non withdrawable casino credits for select games that expire in 168 hours. Terms@casino.draftkings.com promos ends 01-19-2025 at 11:59pm Eastern Time. Just in and out the door. Here's your medication. Get on with it.
- [23:17]
Derek
Yeah, and to be fair, I mean, I think everyone probably could benefit from some of those things as well. Right. Like the, the sort of alternative ways of dealing with mental health and physical health that, you know, may not be so mainstream or that might have some, you know, connotations that go along with it or some, you know, like some things that people may not feel like it's for them for certain reasons that you can't. That I really can't really explain. But I think that when you hear the stories that these guys talk about, especially Perry, when he's telling this, like, very personal story about the veteran that really impacted him and how he came around to this and why he's dedicated the rest of his career to making this happen, you know, you. You realize that these are real people. They served our country. They've been left behind by the system, and it doesn't matter what has happened in the past, we have to move forward. Right. Everyone needs to have a more of an open mind about this because these are people that really need some help and that, you know, at all costs.
- [24:29]
Brian Hubbard
Yeah. And like you said, they've been left behind. And that's the heartbreaking thing here is in a sense, all of the people that could be helped by ibogaine are being left behind. I mean, there are other treatments for things like addiction, depression, the rest of it. I mean, therapy is a big part of it. But Perry points out combining therapy, like I was saying earlier, with some sort of innovative treatment like ibogaine, it's, you know, it's a combination of a holistic solution that we really need to start looking at because there just has been no fix to the veteran suicide issue and that has to stop.
- [25:14]
Derek
Yeah. And on top of all, like, of everything, like the bureaucratic hurdles created, you know, for veterans through, you know, going through the VA system, it sounds like a nightmare for them. They've, you know, they've already been through so much. Now they have to fight through this red tape. While they have ptsd, they potentially have brain injuries, they've got physical ailments, they're hurting. They, you know, life looks so different for them. And we're not only making it hard for them to, you know, get treatments that can really help them, but, you know, maybe even making it feel like we're just saying this, like, woo, woo medicine. It's like, why are we not just saying, if these things really help people, let's get it going?
- [25:59]
Brian Hubbard
Like, yeah, but again, it's so much red tape.
- [26:03]
Derek
Yeah.
- [26:03]
Brian Hubbard
I mean, and I understand why it's there. When a medicine could be potentially toxic or poisonous, and have long term really negative effects, but things like this. And as far as I know, it's non toxic. I mean, maybe there's like a point of how much ibogaine you could take the way it would be dangerous for you, but you know. Yeah, I don't get the red tape with this. This is coming from some old ideologies, you know, in the system that it just not good. And look, I get it. Ibogaine, its potential is really exciting. But it also sounds risky, right? Without proper supervision, potentially. I mean, they describe it as like a hard reboot. Yeah, you know, it's, it's resetting neural pathways in the brain.
- [26:53]
Derek
Do you know I sound ignorant saying this just because I just listened to this whole podcast, but how is the treatment administered? Is it a oral medication? Is this an intravenous medication? How do they actually.
- [27:05]
Brian Hubbard
I don't know. Do you smoke ibogaine?
- [27:09]
Derek
I don't know.
- [27:10]
Brian Hubbard
I really don't know. I didn't even think to look that up.
- [27:14]
Derek
Gosh, we're going to have to Google it.
- [27:16]
Brian Hubbard
Yeah, we'll have to have to figure out something there.
- [27:18]
Derek
How is ibogaine used?
- [27:26]
Brian Hubbard
What would be interesting to see is Perry's push for legislation and action around ibogaine. Like, you know, it's something we should watch out for. And it's going to be really interesting to see how he maneuvers around the stigma and kind of these outdated drug laws that have like held back this type of treatment. Again, I think that he's really the messenger for this. You know, if you take somebody that traditionally has been very conservative but also an effective governor, so, you know, he's not just some quack wacko out there. It's going to build confidence. And I really think that that is the way to get these things passed. Advocates like that, it's just kind of hard to argue with because he gets so much respect from many conservative people. And again, you're dealing with veterans. It's like, who doesn't want to help veterans at the end of the day? Especially ones really struggling.
- [28:32]
Derek
Well, veterans and just people. You know, Hubbard talks about this really moving towards the end of the podcast, this really moving story about his wife and her story with ibogaine. You know, how it started with it transformed her life really because she was addicted to opioids. And obviously he's not saying it's all perfect and everything, just go with it. Like, even though, like I saw, you know, it work, we need more research. We need more. But that's, that's sort of what they're advocating for right is like, how to find the best, most effective, you know, a plan of treatment. How do we get it managed and under the right supervision. And doctors that are interested and enthusiastic about this.
- [29:17]
Brian Hubbard
Yeah, they were definitely responsible for. With their ideas. I mean, listen, they both believe in this. They've seen people that have done the treatment and they know it works. But also, they're not doctors. They're not coming out saying this should be immediately available. They're saying, hey, run your studies, do your tests and find. See the results, and then allow it to be administered if it works.
- [29:42]
Derek
Right.
- [29:44]
Brian Hubbard
And that's really what we're missing. We're just missing so much of that. Like, give it a chance. And that's the same for, like, psilocybin and MDMA therapies. I mean, hurdle after hurdle.
- [29:58]
Derek
Yeah. Something back to what we were just saying before. We neither of us understood how this was actually administered. It's just taken orally.
- [30:05]
Brian Hubbard
Oh, you found some. It's like a pill.
- [30:06]
Derek
Yeah, I suppose it's used historically in, you know, in religious ceremonies to gain spiritual enlightenment. You know, just like. What's the other one? Ayahuasca. I can never say ayahuasca. You know, it's one of those, like, that's been used for centuries. Like, it's not new to us, right? To humans. It's just new to the Western world. It's new to, you know, modern medicine. And people are scared of things like that. Like, for whatever reason we've seen that, you know, and maybe. Maybe we blame the war on drugs. I don't know. For people being afraid to try new things and to sort of, you know, when, like the. What you. The clip you played at the beginning of this podcast. When something is labeled a Schedule 1, it basically shuts all doors to even do research on it. It just says there's no potential medical gain from it. And so when something is labeled that it really puts up, you know, more than tape. Like, it's a brick wall that makes it almost impossible for something to happen. So you have to get approval for that wall to come down. You have to then get people to get closer to it and help you clean up the bricks that have fallen. Like, this is, you know, just in my head how they. How, you know, if you have a.
- [31:27]
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Derek
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Adam Thorne
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Derek
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- [32:36]
Amanda
Hi, it's Mike Pesca, host of the Gist and now host of Funny. You should mention our tagline is unpacking the profundities and punchline. Did that confuse you? Let me explain. So as you know, stand up comedy makes us laugh, but it also has a point. Comedians go to the stage and they make an argument. They express their world views. So I decided, along with the comedy seller, to talk to a couple of the more profound comedians and to figure out what their thesis is, to maybe press them a little bit to put a finer point on their arguments. We're going to talk to Nimish Patel, Sam J. Roy Wood Jr. Rachel Feinstein and more. Funny you should mention it'll show up on Fridays in the Gist's podcast feed.
- [33:23]
Derek
It's they have a long journey ahead of them and I'm, you know, in support of this, I think. You know, again, like we've said over and over, you can't shut down ideas that could potentially help people in such life changing ways when they really need it. Like this isn't medical cannabis for back pain. Like this is, you know, preventing our veterans that have served their country for, you know, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years from killing themselves.
- [33:52]
Brian Hubbard
Yeah. It's truly saving lives.
- [33:54]
Derek
It is.
- [33:54]
Brian Hubbard
It's stopping families being destroyed.
- [33:57]
Derek
Yeah.
- [33:57]
Brian Hubbard
And you know, the, the other part of it for the general public, the addiction part of it, I mean, you know, and also depression for many people in society, if it can benefit them it's like, look, there's never going to be a cure for these things, but if there are really good treatments in place supported by therapy.
- [34:20]
Derek
Yeah, but the post treatment support is very critical here as well.
- [34:25]
Brian Hubbard
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it should be and it has to be, but the drug itself just seems so effective that I don't know if people that are going down to Mexico to do ibogaine are getting a lot of post therapeutic support and it's still benefiting them greatly.
- [34:47]
Derek
Right.
- [34:48]
Brian Hubbard
I mean, wow. Not saying it's a cure all, but it's something. You know, this episode reminded me of how complicated the opioid. Opioid crisis really was, you know, and you know, it's not just about funding, it's about creating access and breaking down the stigmas. It's like on one hand, people are making so much money from the opioids, they're not looking to find any other treatment to come in and take away their money. And then it's just a bunch of lawsuits as people's lives get destroyed. Right. Which is disgusting.
- [35:24]
Derek
Yeah. And these two, you know, Perry and Hubbard, they've. I feel like they've really only scratched the surface of what it will take to change public perception about ibogaine and psychedelics alike. They have a huge hurdle ahead of them and they're sort of these pioneers and it's gonna get worse before it gets better. I'm sure the more noise they make about this, the more pushback they're gonna get. The more traditionally conservative people and those in support of these pharmaceutical companies and their success are going to say, like, you know, this isn't the right way to go. We're looking in the wrong direction. But I, as someone who feels like, you know, innovation, you know, is important, whether it sort of serves everyone or just a small portion of people, like, we have to push forward with this, even if there's a small potential that it helps people in the way they're anticipating.
- [36:28]
Brian Hubbard
Yeah.
- [36:29]
Derek
We have to continue to push and I think these two are going to follow through with it and they're going to. They're going to take those hurdles in stride, you know?
- [36:36]
Brian Hubbard
Yeah, that's true. And coming on Rogan is the way to do it. I mean, it's now, millions of people have heard this message.
- [36:45]
Derek
Yeah.
- [36:45]
Brian Hubbard
And what better way to get it out? What's really nice about this. And Rogan does like having governors on. He loves chatting with them. You know, even ex governors like Perry, it's one of those things where if they make some ground Significant ground he'd be willing to have them on again to get the update to see how much further it's gone. Because he really wants to advocate for these people, which is wonderful. And you know, it's hearing their personal stories makes a difference. You know, people connect with the human side of the issues more than stats.
- [37:21]
Derek
Yeah, yeah. Can't repeat it enough. You know, the moving stories they talked about, the passion they have for this project, you know, it makes me want to support any and all like funding and research for drugs like ibogaine and, you know, their treatment plans and, you know, get behind this. I think some of this was eye opening for me. Some of this was known, but not really like a top of the mind type thing where it's like, you know, coming off the back of the election, coming off the back of all of these, like big topics that have been so front of mind recently. Like, this is something that can probably easily fall to the wayside for a lot of people, I would say. I don't personally know too many veterans that have experienced this. I know a few. But, um, there aren't like, you know, day to day in my life as much as they are in yours. And so it's really like, it's. I don't want to say the word refreshing, but it's. It's a different bit of information that like, I'm actually really grateful that I was able to hear more and learn more about. It's one of the reasons I really enjoy listening to Rogan. Like, it's always. I'm always learning something new.
- [38:41]
Brian Hubbard
Because where else would you have heard this? No, where else would you get that level of detail about something that we all know is a problem? We've not heard solutions for it? And it's like, okay, yeah, I mean.
- [38:53]
Derek
We'Ve identified our news feeds. Look very different, your feeds and my feed is so different. So this stuff doesn't come up for me. I get it when I'm, you know, listening to Rogan and obviously it's really eye opening and, you know, I feel like everyone should tune in a little bit to what's going to happen in the future with this.
- [39:11]
Brian Hubbard
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's it for this week. We're gonna end on that. Guys, check this podcast out with Perry and Rogan and stay tuned for what they can do with this. We hope good things and right now we just want to give a shout out all the best to our veterans out there or anybody struggling with addiction and depression. And hopefully help is on the way all the best and we'll talk to you guys next week.
- [39:40]
Derek
Cheers.
- [39:48]
Mike Pesca
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